 and good evening and welcome to this latest edition of Exchange for Media Dhani Kaskar webinar on how Bharat, the non-metro part of India is driving economic growth in this country, especially how things are shaping up post the festive season. And as we enter into a phase when India starts its vaccination drive as more and more markets open up completely, I'm here along with my fellow panelists to discuss what is the shape of economic recovery India is going to see over the next few months. And perhaps beyond that, what is the state of, what is the qualitative nature of this economic growth that we are likely to see. And as a result of that, what will be the impact of this growth on the media and marketing ecosystem? I have a very well balanced panel with me today. Starting off, I have Abhinav Ayer, head of marketing for Muthu Finance. Thank you, Abhinav, for joining us. Divya Karani, CEO of Densu X, Densu Age's largest media agency. And with me also, Kakon Seti, Chief Marketing Officer of the Dhani Bhaskar Group. Welcome, Kakon. Shri Shagrawal, head of brand and marketing for Panasonic. Satyajit Srinivasa, Chief Revenue Officer for the Dhani Bhaskar Group. Again, last but not the least, and the panelists are envy the most, Mohit Joshi, sitting in Nanital. Hello, Mohit, and hello to all the panelists. Thank you for joining us. Before I come to you, let me start by reading some of the facts about what's been happening in the, let me rewind to the you know, infection. As we all know, a lot of migration happened back to, you know, non-metros outside of people went back to their hometowns from the bigger markets to smaller markets. And a little white-collared workforce has continued to stay in those towns because a large number of corporates will continue on a work from home policy. Metro, as we all know, had a far more severe that's compared to non-metros. Hence, and that was also driven by the larger density. So the impact of COVID and the lockdown on the metro market was much more severe. Newspapers circulation, if we talk about that in the metro markets, I think was far more hit. The pickup in non-metro markets of newspaper circulation was much more faster, rapid, and keep on online much earlier. I'm told circulation, especially non-metro market, is now back to normal, back to COVID era. GST collection growth in non-metro markets has been leading the metro markets. In fact, it's been leading national average. Large number of blue-collar workers are also not yet back to metros primarily because the ones who left are unfortunately not able to fully find jobs back in metro markets. So that's one of the reasons why the economy in non-metro markets has continued to grow because of growth in consumption. The other very important aspect is agriculture this year did well because of good monsoon. And agricultural economy, as you know, has also remained very lesser impacted due to COVID. And because the non-metro markets, the Bharat as we call it, is also very dependent upon agriculture that was one of the reasons why this non-metro markets grew. Last but not the least, I think the other aspect of growth in non-metro markets has been a large amount of population being employed in government jobs also. And what that does is that the kind of job losses or income losses that we saw in the private sector in the large metros, the same place in the smaller markets. So I think these are the points that I will start off with. Let me start this conversation and throw a question directly to Abhinav Ayer. Abhinav, you are part of the BFSI sector. BFSI sector has had a very mixed-growth story over the last few years. Demonetization was one of the events that really gave a very big impetus to the BFSI sector. You cannot remain independent of what is happening in the larger economy. It is kind of the bellwether for the entire economy in terms of people spending and saving money. And you belong to a company where you are lending out money to people. What's been your experience post-COVID, how do you see things shaping up from here on? Okay. Thank you, Nawal, first of all, for this opportunity. It's great to be on this panel and share my thoughts. In fact, I would say that we are one of those companies which have less to complain. And we're very happy to share that the last nine months have been pretty buoyant for us. And we have done pretty well, whether it is on new customer acquisition or business as a whole. In fact, if I take a step back, even the last year, pre-COVID, was quite challenging for many sectors. But for us, within the gold-own space, being the category leaders also, it's been a very, very good year. We closed on a high note with about 51% growth in our profitability. We grew from 2100 crores to 3200 crores in our PAT in the last financial year. And even during COVID, post-COVID, if I say, we were one of the first companies to get back on our feet because being a part of essential services, we closed the first half of the year with a 29% growth in our profitability, about 30% growth in our book size. So I think compared to most other impacted sectors or companies within financial services also, we have less to complain about. And bringing the context to the point that is in question about non-meters, I'm happy to share that we have traditionally had a very high focus on non-meters, semi-urban and rural areas. If you look at our branch network, we have about 5,330 odd branches spread across northeast, west and south of India. And more than 70% of these branches have always been in semi-urban and rural areas. So this new debate about whether non-meters have played a larger contribution in the economic recovery post-COVID is that it has always been that way for us. And that's largely driven because of the fact that India is one of the largest consumers of gold. So the global gold demand in India contributes to about 23%. And 2 thirds of that 23% originates from the hinterlands. So there's a very logical connection why we have been present in the rural semi-urban markets. 60% of my staff members are based in these 70% of the rural markets. 55% of our new customer acquisition happens from the non-metro markets. Surprisingly, even obviously, there is a huge digital penetration which is happening in non-meters. But even if you look at the number of app downloads for our online transactions or digital transactions, semi-urban rural markets contribute about 55-60% of those transactions. So any stretch of imagination, non-meters have traditionally been a very big, they have been the big boulders in the bucket for us. And they've always helped us pull out the averages. Another statistic which I find interesting to share with you is in the same sequence is that in the last two, three years, we have opened about 250 odd branches. And more than 85% of these branches are in non-meters semi-urban areas. So fortune definitely lies at the bottom of the pyramid for us when it comes to non-meters. And going forward, we only see this demand only grow with passage of time. Because I also feel with the passage of time, it is getting more homogeneous. The economic wellness of people in semi-urban rural non-metro areas is also increasing as we speak. The government is investing more in developing those markets, whether it is through Mandir Mandreha or other things. So I feel that the story is only going to continue for us. In fact, I have a personal anecdote to share. I was with somebody last week who owns the largest garment and store in Raipur. And this gentleman told me that the impact of COVID in Raipur has been minimal, especially on his business. The lockdown, the first six weeks of lockdown were over. Their sales have been booming right after that. And the degrowth and the slowdown that we talk about in metro cities has hardly been visible in the last six, eight months in these markets. And especially also because these markets are so integrated to the agriculture, which has done really well. So some of these, I won't call them small. These are medium-sized companies based out of non-metro markets. Some of them have had their best year ever. Unlike the conversations that we have in the major markets where we've had... Metro markets are really booming very well. You've come to you since you're part of a company that has spread across a large number of markets across India and you truly represent in many ways what's happening across Bharat. Tell us some of the non-obvious things that have been missed out, especially by advertisers when they look at these markets. One of the things that has happened over the last many years and perhaps that will get corrected because of COVID is over-indexing of English, right? Especially when it comes to media option. Do you think that has changed due to COVID and is that changed here to stay? Hi to everybody. Thank you very much for having me here. In fact, one of the biggest results, let's put it that way, which has come out of this whole COVID pandemic related to India is the fact that somewhere the whole intensity of COVID was very big as we were discussed in the metro markets and in the non-metro market intensity was much less. The markets are different. We've discussed this across several forums again. The way in which metro markets, they went into a very long sort of lockdown and what happened in print and particularly in English is that it was unavailable for a long period of time. What happened is that people moved on while they moved on to other mediums, particularly for example, if I was taking the Times of India and I'm saying this personally for myself, and since I didn't get the newspaper at home, I actually started, I got onto an app and I started reading it and when finally the lockdown was over and the distribution started, I did not get it back because I by then started reading it online and I didn't restart the whole and this happened not just to me, it seems that it happened to a large number of people, so much so that this big hype test was there, changing India habits in terms of English newspaper reading. Compare that to what happened in the non-metro markets and I want to say this that non-metro markets are basically while we tend to say rural, but about tier one, tier two, tier three, tier four markets because these are the markets and I'm well versed with those and we are, our footprint is, the intensity was less, people are different there, the social fabric is different there, the lay of the land topographically is different in these markets, they are flat as compared to vertical in the metro market. The fact, the circulations, not just Denigbaskar, I'm talking about almost every big national, Indian language newspaper, whether it is Malayalam Manorama or whether it's Mathur Bhoomi, Inadu, Denigbaskar, Delhi Jaaprit, all of these guys who are, language, Indian language newspapers in these markets, there was practically a bounce back within less than a month. The circulations today are almost close to anywhere between 85 to 90 percent depending on which market you are in, simply because and the 15, 10, 15 percent is because some bit of cash is, some bit of office copies, some airport copies, services which are train services are still not completely there, so those kind of copies are, so once that comes back, this is also, but yes, so this is what we learned and that we were able to come back really fast, the habit which is newspaper continues to be very strong. In fact, today's very interesting WhatsApp ad, when you look for and Prabhakar Munkur's, one more, who do you need? Yes, that is an old friend. So yeah, we're done because when it comes to, you know, this whole trust, I'm very, you know, I feel that there should be a metric, there should be a trust, there should be a trust metric because that environment is very important for advertising, so having said, this was the lay of the land, this is what happened in COVID, the fact that Indian land newspapers became, you know, they were able to come back really fast, they were, the circulations were back and I think that advertisers have leaked the benefit of that as well across some of the biggest categories like four wheelers, two wheelers, consumer doodles, education so on and so forth. Absolutely, Kakon, in fact, that point can not be emphasized enough. I remember during the peak of the lockdown curfew, a lot of news was being floated around about, you know, various areas being put under containment zones and I very vividly recall telling my family members, friends to only trust news that came from a credible source and which would invariably be the website of a newspaper and not go by, you know, unknown sources of WhatsApp, PowerBad, so I think that's a very, very important point. The second part of that story is how the newspaper industry capitalizes on that, I think that's very important and like you made this very relevant point, WhatsApp has finally relied on the newspaper to get the coverage out as far as privacy is concerned and I think there is a very important and strong message for brands there as well. Let me now jump to Divya Karani. Divya, you have a very good ringside view of what's happening across many sectors. I'll come to the, you know, media and the trust issue subsequently but I want to pick you up first on what's happening across various sectors and you as a company work with brands across various sectors, FMCG, FMCG as we all know has been a very big gainer during COVID in terms of market share and volumes, you work with the auto industry very closely and many other sectors and if we were to, you know, specifically discuss the auto industry, auto industry has started picking up again, November was a good month for the sector and I remember reading a few reports in November and December which spoke about how, you know, companies like Maruti, companies like, you know, Hyundai are now seeing growth very significantly from the non-metro markets. Do you think this growth is here to stay and will that change the composition of the economic metrics of these companies going forward? So soon to St. Naval. So, thank you. Hi guys. Thank you for having me here. Couldn't agree more with Abhinav as well as smaller towns. There is attraction but it is in very many ways driven by specific trends that have been around for the longest of time. Media itself has been a great leveler in very many ways, digital, mobile, digital, right? So the consumers in our metro versus non-metro, yes, there are nuances but it's becoming more and more, almost, almost on parity. So that's one. Second is markets themselves. If you look at, you know, very many ways are non-metro, mimic metros. It's not as if they don't. And if you look at, yes, absolutely, they mimic the metros and in some cases even surpass it. All you need to do is look at the two wheeler industry and we work very closely with a number of OEMs in that sector and you will find that two wheeler penetration transcends right across even to rural India. So that is two wheelers. Television, Ditto, almost, almost, right? The other bit in reading the data that we do, yes, given the lower penetration so far of other geographers and consumables in the smaller towns, there's that much more headroom for them to absolutely marry into a smaller base and you will find that the percentages are what they are. So, you know, we deal with data but in dealing and reading data, I would caution that in the base effect and the headroom, number one, I would also caution, you mentioned it and Abhinav mentioned it and I think so did Kakon, shifting the changes from what, which are sustaining trends versus which are perhaps an, you know, an outcome of the metro lockdown married with the agriculture upsurge. So any, all of us, instead of just jumping one way, we need to carefully monitor what is happening. So yes, you're correct and I'm agreeing with both FMCG, autos, both four wheelers and two wheelers, even tractors have all seen an upsurge in demands from smaller towns. So that is there. Is it a sustainable and which ones are sustainable? We need to wait and watch. Let me now jump to Shereesh, who's part of the Panasonic team. Shereesh, if I were to pick you up, you know, first two quarters were extremely tough for the consumer durables industry and the prime reason being retail outlets were completely shut. Growth has started picking up, festive season was okay, but the industry has still seen degrowth in 2020 and the economic pickup will be slow going forward in the next one and two years. Having said that, tell us what are the changes in the growth metrics or the composition of growth that the industry has seen, especially Panasonic. And if you were to look at how the weightage between the metro and non-metro markets was for companies like yours, pre-COVID, and how is it likely to pan out once we are fully out of COVID? Sure. Thanks. I think if I talk about the consumer durable sector, I think our sector was one of the fastest to bounce back in the new COVID normal. If I have to give you some data point, you know, when the lockdown started easing and the market started opening in July and August, you know, we saw a growth of 20% in terms of sales. And as the festive season ended with Diwali in November, you know, we witnessed a growth of 35% across all categories. You know, and why this growth was coming, if I have to summarize, there are probably three major reasons for that. The first and foremost was there was a pent up demand, you know, since people were not able to go ahead with their planned purchases during the lockdown phase. Okay. So as soon as the market started opening up, they went ahead and they bought the devices. Okay. The second reason was like we also mentioned, you know, in consumer durable category barring television, you know, where you still have a 65% penetration, the penetration of categories like refrigerator, washing machine, AC is very low. You know, refrigerator is almost 35%. The moment you go to washing machine, it drops to 14%. AC is less than 5%. Microwave is not even 1%. Okay. You know, so now what has happened is now there are few needs which are universal, you know, you cannot categorize them only for tier one and tier two. What I mean by that is there is a need for convenience. There is a need for comfort. There is a need for multitasking. There is a need to be entertained, right? Now, since people were, you know, confined to their homes, you know, and with limited or no domestic helps available, I think they had nothing else to look forward to. I think they all were looking for appliances that can ease their life. I think so they realized this need, especially in tier two, tier three towns, and they went ahead and I did the purchases. Now, the trend that I'm talking about what we are seeing here is, you know, while tier one markets, we see people focusing more on premium range post discovered. So, you know, in tier one markets, 50 inches is a new 40 inch now. Okay. People are looking for refrigerators and 550 liters and above. Okay. Likewise, people are moving to fully automatic washing machines. Now, when you come to tier two, tier three towns, you know, there is a endeavor required from brands that they expand their lineup, which caters to the need of tier two, tier three markets also. So, for example, we are, you know, expending our range in the fixed speed window ACs. Now, there are these markets where you have frequent power pockets, right? Now, what this fixed windows AC does is it maintains the temperature, even if there is a frequent power cut. Likewise, in refrigerators, we are expending our range in DC, direct cool. We also saw potential of 250 liters in frost free range. So we are working on that and bringing those products. Likewise, we expanded our range in semi automatic washing machines. I think the owners is on the branch to ensure that they come up with the products that appeal to this particular market because need is there. You know, everyone is looking for the comfort in their life and introduce them at a right price point so that, you know, you can convert those customers. And that's what we are focusing at Panasonic. I think that's very relevant, especially the consumer durable sector, you know, some of the sectors like auto BFSI consumer that are durable are really well withers of the economy and growth coming back in the sector is, I think what has also changed because of COVID is more and more Indians have dipped into their saving, right? So spending is not necessarily bad for the economy. You know, they might be dipping into their savings, but what spending does, even if it is driven by savings is it brings economic activity, economic growth back and creates opportunity for, you know, future generation of surplus cash. So in that sense, it's a good development. Let me know. It keeps the wheel rolling. It keeps the wheel rolling actually. That's very important here. No doubt. Let me now go across to Mohit. Mohit, good to have you on the panel. You are in work with a company which has a very good, you know, all across view of many sectors. You work with some of the market clients in the food space, in the auto space, and some of the other sectors. Tell us what's been your experience of working with some of these clients in terms of how growth has been coming back for them? How do they see the composition of growth changing? What is their view of, you know, how things will pan out in 2021 with respect to growth coming from, you know, metro markets versus what we call as Bharat markets? Thanks, Naval. So, yes, you're right. The kind of clients that we have also give us a good feel of how the growth has come back. And as Divya has already mentioned, the auto category we handle, we realize that the growth that happened post the lockdown largely came from tier 2, tier 3 cities for them. A big amount of growth happened from there. Not just the auto category, but even Philip's lighting, you know, something which is not the, you know, the Bharat kind of a brand. They saw a lot of growth, a big amount of growth happening from tier 2, tier 3. Volta's, Volta's Beco. While Volta's, the ACs, they lost the first season, which was the April season. But, you know, the second season in October, they saw growth happening from the tier 2, tier 3 cities. Volta's Beco, I mean, Shiri spoke about it. And I completely agree that, you know, those penetration numbers are very small. But again, that gives the headroom, as Divya said. And the numbers, apparently, Volta's Beco did the largest, highest numbers till date. And 70% of that came from tier 2, tier 3 cities. Now, not just those, but I would also talk about a few of the new age clients like Swiggy. We handle Swiggy. And Swiggy went down to 20% of pre-COVID, you know, bookings at one point in time. Then they, then they significantly gained the numbers. And that gain also, a significant component of that gain came from tier 2, tier 3 cities. Oya Rooms, again, a client which is across, you know, across the country, saw a huge traction coming from tier 2, tier 3 cities. And finally, I would say some of the startups that, you know, got, I would say, they really got lapped up at this point in time, like Khatabuk, Phonpe, MPL, Dream 11, their growths also came a lot from the smaller towns and cities. I'm sitting right now in a tier 2 city myself and I realize that things have changed here completely. The last time I came to Nenital, there was no concept of online delivery. But today you have online delivery happening over here and I don't have to go to the market at all. So things have really changed and I'm feeling it myself. So I would say that this Bharat growth or the tier 2, tier 3 city growth is there to stay, right? Because metros anyway, I feel have been saturated. The competition is huge. The, you know, the complexities of the consumers is also huge over there. Whereas when you come to the tier 2, tier 3 cities, it's more about, you know, the availability of the brands, the simpler narrative that the brands can give them, the after sale service, relationships, all those have a big, you know, element in terms of converting the sale. So in my view, even 2021 should see a good amount of contribution coming from the tier 2, tier 3 and the Bharat cities of India. I think, well, especially examples of various categories, though, there's one point where I vehemently differ with you. Nenital is not a city, it's heaven. But I just looked at the, you know, the population and the, you know, where it comes from. So it comes in tier 2 cities. I'm technically correct. So let me come to you. Welcome to the show. And as I mentioned earlier, you again have a very good quality view of what's happening across. Actually, you are in a very, you know, envious position where you have a view of what's happening in the metro markets as well as non metro markets primarily because there's a lot of clientele of yours, which is based in metro markets, the large corporate clients as we like to call them. And you also have clientele, which is based across these huge swaths of, you know, Bharat market, so to say. Tell us some of the insights. We know what's happening in corporate India, how growth is shaping up, what is happening with their advertising spends. Tell us some of the key aspects of change in, you know, advertising patterns you've seen when it comes to the smaller markets. We know growth is coming back all right, but are they also back to spending to creep over levels? So as you started by saying, let me talk about the non-obvious thing. So very clearly, you know, what one has seen in this entire period of the pandemic is that many advertisers and, you know, these were advertisers who looked at the entire country and they were advertising in the metros and the non metros as well. But what this period did was many of them had to forcibly look beyond the metro because you know, things were just not happening in the metro. And the, you know, beyond six metros, kind of markets were coming back much faster. So they were forced to look at that. And, you know, and of course, as most of our colleagues on this panel told us, that the non-metro market responded very well. Be it auto, SMCG, be it four-wheeler, two-wheeler, be it durable, mobile phone, everything has, you know, seem to have sold much better in the non-metro over the last few months. But what we took out as, you know, a publication sitting in the metro looking at corporate clients is that what our advertisers are now looking at is a huge potential out there, which they were probably not focusing on earlier. Correct? And it is, it is a market which has opened up and, you know, people are really, and as Chirish said very rightly, you know, people are looking at that market, customizing products for those markets now, looking at what kind of needs are there, trying to understand those markets better. So I think, you know, what this does for us, and where we come in here is how do we facilitate that understanding better, you know, as a large publication which has worked in the market beyond the metro? How do we facilitate that, you know, understanding for advertisers, and therefore give them a higher return in these markets? Because, you know, that's what ultimately people are looking at, deliveries in the market beyond metro. And, you know, a big way of sustaining this trend of, you know, you know, make metros to non-meters or whatever you wish to call it, the bar is part of it, is to give the confidence to advertisers that once they move beyond the fixed metros, there's a huge market which they're getting deliveries from. So, you know, that's exactly what our endeavor is. What we also saw and we were pleasantly surprised to see is that print, and especially, you know, the newspapers that we represent, have been delivering huge response. And, you know, these few months also made us work with advertisers in a different way, because advertisers obviously came up and said, you know, we don't have the kind of budget we have to have, we're not selling, help us. So, we also devised certain new ways of, you know, going about providing solutions. We measured responses, we looked at the kind of sales which were happening, and, you know, pleasantly surprised to see that in category after category, print was really delivering. And I can give you examples, SMTG, auto over two-wheelers, four-wheelers. We went to the level of tracking how many calls came in from an ad, released in the newspaper to, you know, looking at how many app downloads happened when an app, you know, ad was given. Even mobile phones we tracked, you know, if a jacket came, how many mobile phones got sold, etc. So, we also, you know, understood our own markets, our own products much better. It is now up to us, how do we translate this entire understanding, this entire delivery mechanism, this entire solution speed, you know, go and talk to advertisers and give them this market, present it and, you know, make them utilize this potential in a much better way. Very interesting point, Divya, let me jump across to you and talk to you because you students who, for a large set of clients, invest a lot of money across various media options. And as I mentioned at the beginning, and this is not new, this is not COVID, this is a pre-COVID story. We had a lot of focus when it's come to media as well as brands and hence spending has been on vernacular markets, so to say, the non-English markets, the non-metro markets. We've seen a lot of media consumption trends changing because of COVID. Of course, print was very hard hit in the initial stages. A lot of traction was built into digital. Digital itself has been trying to build this vernacular story over the last few years. And we all know the benefits of print. There is no doubt about that. There is a younger population which might not be so much into print, but there is a set of population which has grown with print, which has money to spend, which is a well-paying population, which reads print. And as we were discussing, trust is a very important factor when it comes to using print. So there are mixed factors, but nobody can deny it. I recall in the month of August, we did the mid-year annual review along with medicine where we said print is likely to have a degrowth for the entire year in the range of 20, 20 odd percent, 18 to 20 percent. And I think if you look at where we stand today, that number remains very valid. We are doing the annual report early next month, and some of the numbers tell me the report is still very valid. So when it comes to print usage, especially in the vernacular language, Bharat market fix, what is your sense of where things are headed? Because print has been swimming against the tide the last few years. There's been no doubt about that. But are we getting too swayed by what's happening in English press and not really looking at what's happening outside of English? Not really, Nabel. You need to give marketeers credit for reading the market because they're close to what is driving their businesses. So media mix is constantly evolving. And I mentioned this earlier on, sitting and reading through at times, contrarian trends is what marketeers increasingly need to do. And it's never been a more exciting time to be either in marketing or media because it's changing so rapidly and so fast. But just when you think that year is changed and it's volatile and so on, I find that the more you know that old adage, the more things change, the more things remain the same. So therefore to Kakon's point, she was completely correct. Trust, look at it. We have media penetration increasing, but a deficiency of trust. Media was supposed to be the bellwether of reporting ads is what is. And yet, the more the penetration increases, the more we see the advent of fake news XYZ. So managing these contrarian trends, stitching together the ecosystem that's there, to my mind, it's much beyond just an English versus language debate. No longer. No longer. We've seen, you mentioned the fact that digital also is going the language way. Of course it is. Look at the penetration that has increased. And the way we consume each media, the way we consume print is completely different from the way we consume TV or for that matter, all kinds of social media. One is for perhaps news and education. The other and genres also. So TV also has news, but the other one is for entertainment and you would want to consume it in your own language, perhaps even in your own dialect. So it's not at all surprising that digital is now talking the language story. So to my mind, it is balancing contrarian trends. And I think there is room enough because our addict continues to be way lower than what the developed countries have. So it is balancing contrarian trends. And I would imagine that there is enough headroom for everyone. Your right print has been under tremendous pressure. But I will then look at news brands. And this goes back to Kakon's stories earlier. News brands are the custodians of trust like never before. They need to leverage that. I do not think the news brand owners have done so. There needs to be that. And the marketeers will respond. Media will respond. So that to my mind is a main thing. Rest, of course, of all the trends digital has galloped ahead and it's here to stay. I don't think there's any going back. If at all, the momentum will increase. And you are very well aware, you know, given our foray, Densu has a huge footprint in digital tech data. The future is becoming more and more personal. It is too novel. It is too Mohit. It is too Kakon or Septuagin serving what you consume beyond the fact that you're in Nenital or Bombay or Delhi, much, much beyond that tailor making it. And that is what data accords us today. So that that is my response. Pish, let me come to you consumer durables has been a sector that's had print as a very healthy part of its media mix. What do you think COVID will do to that usage? I asked that question from, you know, two angles. One is, as you said, a lot of the growth is coming from non metro markets and print has very good quality penetration in the non metro markets and not just penetration. It also has very healthy traction and engagement beyond just, you know, circulation. So what does that do to the spends of consumer durable players on the newspapers from a language point of view, and also from a, you know, entire change of landscape point of view post COVID with, you know, digital growth happening, consumers also hooked on more to their phones and e-commerce and so on so forth. So first of all, there is no denying of the fact that each and every medium or so to say a touch point plays an extremely important role in a consumer decision journey. You know, if I have to divide this decision journey into say simplest three forms or three phases, the first and foremost is a evoked stage. You can call it a pre-purchase stage. Okay. Second is the search stage. And then you have the final purchase stage. Okay. Now which mediums, you know, work well in each of the stages, television for sure works the best in the evoked stage. You know, the kind of reach that television gives, there is no other medium that can meet that. Okay. Print also plays a very important role in the evoked stage. Okay. And then I see print playing a very important role in the final purchase stage also, because it can work like an announcement wherein you can, you know, flash the offer schemes at a immediate go. Okay. But when it comes to consumer durable, you know, the search stage is extremely very important. You know, there was a research by Google and Boston consenting group, which says a consumer durable buyer actually spends three to four weeks of time before they zero down on any brand or a product that they have to buy. Now why they are taking so much of time when it comes to consumer durable category is a simple reason because, you know, they know when they are buying any such product, they are locking themselves for a longer period of time. You know, when you buy a television or a refrigerator, you know, you're not going to change it for next five to six years. An average life cycle of a refrigerator is 11 years. Okay. So this research period is very critical in consumer durable category. And these days, this search is happening actually on digital platform. You know, so there is no denying of the fact that digital plays an extremely important role. And it's not just, it's not just limited to tier one towns these days, tier two, tier three also, you know, if you look at, I have this report of Canter 2019, the recent 2020 report is yet to come. You know, 2019 report says that in India, you have 574 million internet users. Okay. 45% of that comes from rural area, you know, which is roughly 274 million. And still we only have 28% penetration when it comes to rural India in terms of internet. And this data is going to change drastically when we'll see 2020 report. Just wait for that report because, you know, more and more people have adopted digital as a technology. Having said that, I think, I think there could not have been a better, you know, time to quote the report because I've been quoting this report in multiple forums and this report was done by Den. So the way is here and collaboration with exchange for media. You know, so I'm referring to your 2019 report, you know, about the advertising spends, you know, it talked about, you know, if you look at the advertising industry overall, overall advertising industry, and you split them across touch points, television takes the maximum share of a spend, which is 34%, followed by print, which was 29%. And then you had digital 20%. You know, now where this report got interesting, and you know, I have been quoting it from last one year, and I've done the selling to my internal team members also a lot. You know, the moment you look at industry specific data point and you look at consumer durable, this data point changes completely. Digital takes the maximum pie of almost 38% of the spends followed by television, which is 30%. Print is only 14%. Okay, I am not saying that print is not playing an important role. It's just that since the search period is so critical in consumer durable category, digital takes the maximum share of, you know, spends. Having said that, yes, there is no denying of the fact, I think Akun mentioned at the beginning, the kind of trust that print media brings that I don't think there is any other medium that has that trust associated with them, especially when you're targeting in tier two, tier three towns, it's very important for you to speak to those consumers in their own language. I think use of local language is extremely critical for brands to drive that culture, that salience and that customer resonance. I think print can do that job phenomenally well. And, you know, as we expand our lineup, and we are looking at opening up, you know, and targeting tier two, tier three towns, I think we will also start spending a lot on print. So yes, I think I'll summarize, I think each medium plays an important role, you cannot choose and decide. I think right mix of each medium will have a multiplier effect of whatever strategy that you're opting for. Yeah. That's correct. And what is also important to remember as far as the consumer durables category is concerned, the role, the intertwined role that retail plays in that and retail is a heavy user intent, right? Absolutely. Whether you have Proma or VJ sales and what they're driving is basically sales to a large extent of the consumer durables category. So for search, it's very important from what you mentioned, but eventually when it comes to on-ground conversion, you know, print becomes a very, very important part of, you know, the when I say search, I mean, the research is primarily happening on digital. Yes. The final proof of concept will happen at retail store, no doubt about it, but they are going well prepared at the store. That's the point. Yes. Akun, let me come to you before I, you know, do one last round of questions and take some audience cues. Over does change the media landscape significantly and tell us a few ways in which print, especially language, vernacular, non-English print can take advantage of this opportunity is that that is, you know, being thrown open because, you know, the, what I, the sense I get is the view is mixed. Some of the trends we see might be transient, you know, they might not be permanent in nature. Markets will open up completely post, you know, COVID employment opportunities and metros will be back. The entire white collar, even the blue collar workforce, which is, you know, is right now in non-metro areas will be back in big cities. Economic activity will be back with a bang. Things might easily go back to the pre-COVID era, but this window of opportunities that has opened up for, you know, vernacular language newspapers, what is the way for you to capitalize on that? Yeah, it's a great question, actually. I'm dying to answer it. So, you know, one of the first things that I want to talk about is that the whole, you know, today we are talking about non-metro markets and actually thinking of it as if it is some new subject matter. It is not. It is, I remember as a marketing person in this company running initiative, which was predated. I mean, it started before I came into this company and has been running as an unmetro. We used to call it unmetro. Unmetro your mind. We would tell our advertisers that these are markets which require your attention. What COVID has done for us is, you know, totally spotlight the markets because of the fact that this happened. So it's not a new concept. It just has found its place and unfortunately through a pandemic, but people, marketers were going where the audience was, where the sale was happening. So they didn't, at that point in time, care whether it was metro or unmetro, and it was coming from the non-metro markets. So it has willingly put the spotlight on the massive potential, which is something that needs to be, today we are discovering it even more because we've got the nine months to look at the data that, you know, from the non-metro markets. We're looking at it, dissecting it for every category possible, right? Because suddenly this whole new market has opened up and hey, this is giving me numbers. So let's understand it more. I'm so glad that this opportunity came about. So that's number one. Number two, as Siddish so rightly mentioned, he said, you know, the need has been discovered and it behoves the advertiser to actually feed that need. And that point also was made by Siddish and I so totally agree with this point that we need to feed that need. We need to, Divya talked about the fact that, you know, their non-metro markets are, you know, metros. You're right because they aspire and today, in fact, if you look at some of your big YouTubers or the TikTok stars or any of these, these are all not guys from the metros. They're all coming out of non-metro markets. So there's a huge amount of influencer activity which is happening in the south. I think what COVID has done is open the Pandora's box to a completely new set of markets which we knew existed, but weren't really, because we were stuck on P1 markets and these P1 markets were metros. So that's point number one. Number two, I think what we need to do is that we need to understand and that's again been mentioned on this panel and so rightly believe that each medium has its play, it has its role, it has its work cut out at various stages of the brand's life cycle and in the sales ecosystem, in reaching the customer. I'm actually looking forward so that if advertisers have so discovered non-metro markets and the smaller towns and cities of India, what about the government? I'm looking forward to the budget. For example, what will the budget, how will the transport network of this country shape up? How will we deliver better goods and services across to these markets? How will the government's spending policy affect what the consumers in these markets will gain from? How will lifestyle indicators grow? That's what I'm looking forward to because I think that this trend, it's not a trend, it's this discovery. I think this is here to stay and I feel that not again when an advertiser be hung up on P1 markets, they will want to know, they will drive us, they will drive their partners and their agencies to understand what is happening in the markets beyond the metrics. Since we have limited time, let me do one last round of questions and before we wrap up, let me start with Abhinav Ayer. Abhinav 2020 is a year that a lot of us want to write off from our books, so to say. Tell us what does 2021 hold in store for us from people who are part of this webinar, especially people from advertising agencies, from media companies, from an advertising spend point of view. How do you see 2021 shaping up? I'm not asking for growth on top of 2020, but as compared to say, 2029 will we have significant growth? Are advertising spend going to be fully back this year and likely to grow on top of 2019? As I said, I for one would not like to kind of do away with 2020 because it's been a great year for us and the industry within the Gold Lone segment and we've done well. But definitely to answer your question, we only see the spends and the growth from an AUM perspective, book size perspective, to grow northwards. I see some recalibration happening on the market prioritizations, for sure. When we look at non metros, obviously, that's a consumer who's actually needs a greater awareness about better value propositions. And from an urban customer segment, it's the digital adoption which is getting expedited, accelerated. So even when we as a brand look at these two markets, we're looking at launching new products like Lone at home where consumers in the urban elite would like to avail hold-ones from the convenience of their home or would like to make payments online, payments and kind of stuff. And when it comes to the non metros or the semi-urban and the rural segments, that's where people have from a product perspective, they're quite aware about how Gold Lones work. So there is no inhibition per se because films like Though Because Amin and Mother India have done those contributions to our industry for that matter. So there it's educating them with a better alternative because as against a pawnbroker who's operating at 4-5% per month, we are a brand which offers at a much lower rate of interest. And like many of my panelists here said, trust is something which is the bedrock of all relationships. And especially in a business like ours, where you're letting go of an emotional asset, it's not just a jewelry, it's an emotional asset. So trust is the bedrock of that relationship. And because of our network, because of our legacy of 133 years of presence, network, I think that is one thing which we can take humble pride in. So when it comes to media spends, with all humility, I'll say we were the first ones to launch a campaign right when things were looking extremely gloomy. We launched our campaign in the middle of May. Our first print ad went on the 6th of June. And for us, it's remained the same. And it's only going to continue from here because like I said, our branch network, our customer base, our growth parameters, everything contribute. I mean, there's been no problem. We have been touched on a land of milk and honey. So I only see I'm an optimist and I think it's only going to grow from here. That's good news for especially all the media owners. Saty jeep, let me come to you. I know you're a listed company. So you can't really make any number guesses publicly. But tell us a sense 2020 has been an extremely tough year for print. Naturally, you would see growth coming back in 2021. This year would certainly be better than last year. When do you see yourself getting back to growing on top of 2019 numbers? So as I said, we have looked at the festive as well as December, which was about 90% to 90 to 95, depending on states and the most markets we looked at 90 to 95% of revenue coming back. And then I say revenue coming back between 95% of 1920. So we are definitely looking at the next couple of months to at least come back to 100 and then take on the next financial year on a growth. So that is essentially what we are planning for. As I told you 2020 has been a period of great learning. Of course, looking at how the first three months ran out and then we came back, numbers came back. We did a lot of new things for advertisers. So 2021 is all about two things. One is as more categories come back, more advertisers look at different and new kind of products. How do we capitalize on all that? How do we provide our best services? We have a huge print reach as you know, plus the my SMPs, the digital fees, we are working on all of them together and seeing how we can provide our best services to take these new products to our entire audience. And point number two is which I try to emphasize is on the deliveries because the advertiser should also have the confidence that a publication like ours can actually deliver. And those deliveries if we are able to provide on a sustained basis, I see no reason why this 2021-22 cannot be a year where we really do well and do grow on 1920. I think very, very valid point, especially when a lot of data issues are cropping up with regards to digital privacy issues, data validity issues. So I think print has an opportunity to take advantage of. Mohit, let me come to you. A very big basket of clients, again, our media spend is going to be fully backed this year. Naturally, the constitution of spend will change, but are you likely to see growth in financial year 2022? Is that growth going to be healthy enough to keep your bosses happy? Yes, Naval, definitely there's going to be a growth this year. In my view, it's a year of hope and we are all hoping and we want this year to give us back our days of glory that were there pre-COVID at least. And we have got positive, I would say, indications from most of our clients saying that 2021 for them also has a lot of hope and expectations. And hence, the marketing budgets should be back to what extent I really can't say at this point in time. But yes, we are hopeful. The composition of the plans or the composition of the media would change. At Havas, we talk about meaningful brands and meaningful media. So in my view, 2021 is going to be a year of meaningful media, a year of meaningful and purposeful campaigns, which will see more of regional content, more of targeted content, more mobile, more vernacular, more OTT, and more targeted and trusted kind of communication. So that's what I see going forward as a few pointers from media perspective. Personally, I feel that just like everybody else and filled with hope for the coming year, I think as a company, we continue to be, it's one of the things that we learned over the last COVID taught us very well, actually, that performance is, you know, I mean, I wish I could write my middle name as performance. So I just feel that it's that important, I mean, for to be to be able to bring value to what the advertiser wants. And there are different kinds of performances that are required. And that performance is important to be proven. I hope that it will be a year where we will go more and more, you know, a print is seen sometimes as a medium, which is not a performance pro. I wonder why, but because it's continuously proving itself. And in fact, in the last year, that's one of the things that we've taken up as a as a company and worked with advertisers, because this was a time where it was required to be proven that much more than, you know, perhaps earlier. So this has now become ingrained as a deal as something that we need to take up very seriously as, you know, Satyajit as well was saying that this is about deliveries. So I feel that it's going to be a year ahead, which is going to be more opened out. People will want to look at better budgets, they will want to do more as the economy is, you know, eases up and and we feel that we are able to handle the pandemic and see the end of it. Hope that by the end of the year, it will be a different story that we'll be talking about. We all hope so. Suresh, are you looking at spending significantly more this year now that, you know, COVID is hopefully largely behind us, vaccination has started. Are you significantly more bullish for your CFO to be able to give you a lot more money? Absolutely. I think whatever early trends that we have seen in January, we are still seeing exponential growth in categories like refrigerator washing machine and microwave ovens. And I could not agree with Mohit Mohor. What he said, like I mentioned, the penetration in the categories is low. And so this 2021 year is going to be a year of consolidation, and you will see a fierce competition by all the brands present in this category. So we are also aiming for huge market shares. And we hope that, you know, we'll go aggressive as far as marketing spends are concerned. So we are highly optimistic about it. That's good news for all the media owners. Divya, you get the last word on this. Thank you, Navar. 2020 has been a year of growth, grown 2020. 2021 is even more bullish. And how and why have we done that is simply because we have, you know, flipped the challenge, which was all around, into, in very many ways, opportunity. We've done that time and time and time again across all our clients. So take the mutual fund industry, for example, the way we've taken the long term view, and you know, mutual funds were around the three decades, but look at what we have done with it for the past five years. Or for that matter, what we've done with multi-slip client, or for that matter, records to what we've done client after client after client is taking the long term view. We've managed to, you know, convert 2020, which was in all very many ways into an opportunity, spirit of reinvention, agility, how to maneuver the uncertainty. And we do this again and again. Suresh, you'll be happy to know the Denso Digital Report is going to be out next month. Fourth of February, so block your time. I'm glad to know that. I'm looking forward to it. So we are staying the course. Thank you. Thank you, Divya. Thank you for the bullish sentiment. I'm happy to end this panel on a bullish note. Unfortunately, we don't have time to take any audience questions. I would request anybody who might have questions to reach out to the panelists directly. Our team will be happy to assist. And as Takun said at the beginning in our opening note, it is not why Bharat anymore. Bharat has been driving India's consumption story for a very long time. And COVID has shined the spotlight on Bharat even more firmly and made sure that India really looks at non-metro markets more seriously, looks at indexing growth, more growth coming from non-metro markets. And as some of the panelists mentioned that because of lack of growth in some of the larger markets per force, a lot of companies have had to look at the non-metro markets and hopefully they're all waiting to find a goldmine there. With that, thank you to all the panelists. I wish you luck. And I hope the pandemic is behind us and we are able to see each other in person. We are thinking of planning our first ground event. At least we'll, as an industry, have a get together. But we are waiting to see how the vaccination drive shapes up over the next three to four weeks. So I'm very hopeful that before this financial year, 31st March, we might have an opportunity to meet each other. Till then, stay safe and look forward to seeing you soon. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, everyone. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much, everyone. Thanks a lot.