 Welcome to the sports playbook where we discuss solutions to issues that impact sports. I'm your host, Angela Hazelett. Today's guest is Jeff Wilson. He is a sports strategist who serves as a consultant to sports agencies. Today we're gonna discuss sports strategies and consulting around the world. Let's get to it. Welcome, Jeff, how are you today? Angela, it is so good to see you and great to be on the show, really looking forward to the next 25 minutes and getting into some interesting topics. Jeff, I'm excited to hear some of the things that you've been up to as a sports strategist. You've worked with some incredible agencies around the world, but let's start off with learning a little bit more about what is a sports strategist and how did you arrive at this endeavor? Yeah, great question. Do you know, it probably started whenever I took a job at the Irish Football Association in Belfast in Northern Ireland, where I started to work in marketing and corporate strategy programs. And then what sort of happened between work that was happening within UEFA and FIFA and other organizations, they started to ask for some assistance on programs, development programs that they were working on. And as time went on, a lot was really focused on creating strategic plans, a roadmap. And that's where I've been spending a lot of my life over the last, well, number of years, really looking at creating those plans. So it's been an interesting journey. Yeah, creating a roadmap, that's really important in looking ahead to the future and what kind of improvements you can make. Let's talk about the work that you've done recently with FIFA, with the World Cup in 2022. The World Cup in 2022 took place in Qatar and there was some concerns from FIFA about hosting there, that the Cutters bid might be a little high risk due to lack of support and infrastructure, but you were hired to do some work for the World Cup. So talk to us a little bit about your work there. Yeah, I spent 12 days in the country looking at it from a fans point of view, a fans perspective, looking at the fans journey on and around the game day. Fascinating insight. And suppose it's an interesting question to pose to people who listen to the podcast here. Have you ever went in the shoes of your fans to your event? What can you learn and what can you take away? You will be surprised. And that, in essence, is what we did. We took everything before game day, buying a ticket. We looked at heading to the game outside the venue. We looked at when you're buying a product or piece of merchandising or food and beverage. We looked at pre-game, during game, leaving, and after the game. And what we did is we analysed that experience from the view of a fan. And really those are those key touch points. What do you have to do well and what needs to be a wow factor to make that a great experience? So we did this with a number of the games. I think it was in total about nine different games. And we started then to create models and touch points that can be used for future events. Great experience being able to do that, but to map that experience out. So you get to walk in the shoes of a fans experiencing their journey. And identifying where there might be problems. Do you think the journey that you experienced is similar to what other fans experience as well, or is it possible that fans might have a different experience than you did? Well, I think there will be different experiences depending on the time that you arrive at the stadium, the stadium that you go to, et cetera, et cetera. And if we take it outside of football or soccer in the States, you also have the difference of an outside venue and in essence an inside venue, the likes of the NBA. So there will be nuances, but the touch points are still the same. You still arrive at the venue. You still will have food and beverage. And what's the quality of that experience? What's the quality of the people you're engaging with? Are they knowledgeable or even more, are they welcoming? In your experience, where are the biggest pain points from the experience of fans as they engage at an event? Yeah, another great question. I would say it becomes when you're interacting with people. So when you interact with a steward or somebody that's representing the organization and the ticketing, that experience can be broken or can be strengthened, depending on that individual. So I think where there's an individual and keeping that at a really top level is really, really important. I think in a simple point of view, food and beverage, we should not be happy with an average hamburger and chips. Because why? Just because it's sport, we should be pushing that bar to have a great hamburger and chips that people talk about. And I will buy back and back time and time again. And I think the third is the engagement and that experience when you're inside the stadium. And that will differ from sport to sport. Some sports might be really engaging, the likes of maybe basketball or ice hockey. Maybe football might be a little bit more traditional. But what still is that engagement? That engagement might be having a tribe around you that can join in singing, et cetera, et cetera. So those are three important things from my point of view. I would imagine it's a little challenging when sports organizations that are hosting events are working with third parties. They're working with vendors for concessions, as you mentioned. They may have even contracted for people to provide guest services in a facility. And talk to me about the distinction or the challenges that may go with working with these third party contractors in this space and how do you ensure high quality experiences for the fans? Yeah, I think this is one area that many events can resonate with. You might have a supplier that might be a food provider, they might be merchandising provider, it might be your security provider. And how do you make sure you have a strong terms of reference, a strong service level agreement, but more importantly, just a strong partnership between the two that everybody is aiming for the same goal. Too many times, if the stadium is not owned by the event, you've got to use their suppliers and that does not maybe resonate with the values of your event. So I think having strong service level agreements, terms of reference, strong that you're getting the best suppliers, not just the average because they give more money, but the best suppliers is really important for sport. You know, we, as the Gen Z and the Gen Alpha get older, we've got to make sure that experience is wow. We have to make sure that experience is wow. And that includes the partners that you deal with. So we should not take okay in sport. We should always raise the bar and continue to raise the bar on a regular basis. In the younger generations, as you mentioned, are looking for something that captures their attention and the wow factor in those experiences. So looking ahead is important for sports organizations to think about providing those experiences. And especially for the price that gets paid for to attend these events and you pay for concessions. So I think that would be appreciated by fans as well. And so you were doing some of this analysis during the World Cup in 2022. This is not something that you've done for the women's World Cup. Is that correct? Can you talk to us about maybe why the focus was on the men's World Cup and not the women's World Cup? Yeah, it was predominantly just due to this was something new, a new project. So trying to get that baseline together. And I think obviously it was very difficult in the timings to make this happen because it's very detailed program. And I think we all learned on this program. And for me, I think what was really, really, really good is that the organization took this effort to improve and to see what the experience is like and then to approve it for future events. Suppose again, the question I pose is if you're involved in a club, if you're involved in a team, if you're involved in a franchise, have you done it? And what have you learned from it? And how are you bringing that into the organization to make the organization better? Let me give you a quick example. I've worked with the United Arab Emirates Pro League in Dubai and the Dubai area. And we did the same. We got a number of clubs to develop an assessment form. We got them to follow the model that I've co-produced with some colleagues. And they then went and they got different adults. They were male, female kids. They really measured their experience across all the touch points. And all I can say is I think they were surprised at things that they thought were better than what the fans were saying, no, this needs improved. On the other side, there was things that were good. So they need to consistently keep that at that level. So what's good? Other leagues are starting to do this as well. Yes, yes, that's great. And they're catching on. Do you see a big distinction between men and women's sports or can FIFA use the lessons learned from the men's World Cup and apply that to the women's World Cup as well? Well, I think there's a couple of things. I think first of all, within the women's game, it is really fast growing sport. And that is great to see. I've probably done an eye about maybe 25 strategies within football federations to grow the women's game. And number one, we need more women in leadership positions. We need more clubs that are driving there and supporting the women's clubs at senior, right down to girls and youth levels. But I think people have got to remember as well from a sponsorship and a commercial point of view. Sometimes you're also looking at a different fan base. There is a difference in the fan base that follow the men's group, the men's, and that follows the women's game. So that opens up different opportunities from a commercial point of view. But it is my dream. It is my dream that we don't talk male-female, we talk football. And there's equal opportunities both on the field or on the court of play and off the field or off the court of play. And everybody is treated equally. And all of the game is growing in totality. I think that's great. And it's really important. And women's sport is growing, particularly in certain regions of the world. And you mentioned there's different fans and they may have different interests and maybe different sponsors or partners that want to engage with those organizations as well. And that may impact the fan experience. And talk to me a little bit about working with different sized companies. So FIFA is a really large international organization. But what about more on the grassroots level? Do the strategies change for those organizations? Well, I think what differs, whether you're at the amateur game or at the elite game will be the resources at your disposal. And that will be financial and human resources. So at the amateur level, it might be more heavily geared to volunteers. Therefore, you need to make sure you bring in great volunteers and you reward them in a good way. And you give them the training that is needed. That might be coaches, administrators, et cetera, et cetera. But believe it or not, many of the principles will be the same. You're always talking about competition. You're always talking about youth and pathway. You're always talking about coach education. You're always talking about good governance and administration and improving that administration. You're always talking about having a strategy. You're always talking about facility development. So I'm involved, yes, at the elite end, but my passion is also at the amateur level. My dad started a football club in my local village and it has brought the community together. And the same principles that I'm applying here, I can apply here. Yes, there's a couple of nuances that I've already mentioned, but we need to ensure that we build these bases out and have strong structures and strong processes in place for these amateur clubs to develop and grow both again on the field or off the field, on the court or off the court of play. But just to finish that off, we in my amateur club, we created a strategy. In my amateur club, we have brought in about 450,000 pounds worth of facility development. In my club, amateur, we train 26 coaches. In my club, we have boys and girls, youth pathways, all amateur. And it takes a good driver to drive it forward and to have the vision and then the people and the structure to implement that at that amateur level. That's huge. And the sustainability of that as well is important. Talk to me a little bit about these, you mentioned these kind of pathways and the structure in place, but the European model is quite different than the American model. And the European model is more of a pyramid type of structure and players may move vertically through that structure, whereas in America, it is more horizontal and separate and that the pathways may not exist. So talk to me a little bit about those distinctions and how that changes things. Yeah, let me start off by saying, I love both models. The pyramid model and let's say the American franchise model and none is right and none is wrong, let's say, but from Europe, we do have a different model and that model is more the pyramid style where you've got the elite at the top and you have at the bottom, you will have in essence, let's say amateur or community, for example, football, rugby, basketball, and this allows these people at the bottom to grow right the way through and grow up to an elite. And there's a famous model, it's called a double pyramid. It could be on the pyramid of the amateur side or the pyramid of the elite side. Now, my son, my son plays for an amateur club. And he has played six year old, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, which he is now, but his club goes right the way up 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and then senior teams. So they have, from being a senior to being in essence a six year old, you can stay in that club and you can progress in that club and play football from the cradle to the grave. And that keeps it really strong and it creates that community aspect and that proudness to play for that community club. But if over a time he does really well, he might go to the elite side and maybe join one of the elite clubs because he's developed really well or he may stay on the amateur side and play for another club. But the bottom line is you can always progress from a youth pathway and when you're at the senior level, you can also progress like what you see Rixham doing at the minute. Lots of people are talking about Rixham because of the two famous owners. They are at a certain level, they've now moved up and they have the opportunity over X amount of years to progress, to potentially play in the Premier League. And that's what makes it exciting. That is exciting. What do you see about that? So if you were consulting an American organization, association and their models very different, how would you approach that because of the difference in the structure? Yeah, for me, everything starts with research. You've got to sit down and you've got to talk to the various stakeholders about what is working and what is not working and you will find, if you do as many stakeholders, you will start to see some common themes that come along. And when you start to see those common themes, you can start to create the framework of a strategy and then how you implement it and you monitor it. At the end of the day, when I look at all of this activity, it's all about, especially if it's a franchise, it's about talent spotting, getting the right people and using the data to do that, coaching and coach education, philosophy of play and place, and then into play comes the commercial side, the administration side and the facilities to go with it. In COVID-19 was a big, big change for everybody. Do you see any long-term changes that affect either the consumers and how they access and use the sports and engage in sports or do you see any distinctions in how associations are approaching, delivering sports? What do you see as the long-term changes and impacts of COVID? Yeah, I do think there has been an impact. I think participation levels obviously went down and after COVID, it's taken a while to get the participation levels back up again. That means, for example, a young girl may not be as fit as what they were before COVID because they're not exercising the same amount of time. So we've got to remember that, yes, sport is an industry, maybe it's part of entertainment or leisure, but in essence, you will be part of a community that is good for your health, whether it's mental health with people around you or whether it's your physical health because of the exercise that you're doing. So for me, participation levels have struggled to get back up again. I think, secondly, the volunteers, volunteerism just hasn't been as strong in certain countries or certain regions as what it previously was. And I do think there's a little bit, ah, I'll just watch TV. Ah, I'll just put on the fantasy game. There is nothing wrong with eSports. Definitely not. But we want our kids to be active. We want our kids to be healthy and whether we like it or not, sport can play a massive part in that, both mentally and physically. And we've done many programs that looks at the mental and at the physical side. So for me, I think volunteerism, participation numbers, the impact of those elements have really had an impact on us. So we've got to bring sport back on our government radar. Okay, to get it going again, because the disruption can affect the chain, right? As far as those who are gonna continue to stay in the sports and continue to encourage others to be in the sport as well. COVID has also had an impact on encouraging sports facilities to increase the use of technology in their spaces. We're in their spaces. And for example, we have a new technology coming out, artificial intelligence facial recognition that is part of the Phillies and Major League Baseball. And these are kind of gonna be scanning people's faces and recognizing them as ticket holders and allowing them to enter the stadium. A lot of these contactless type of actions have been maybe ramped up and accelerated since COVID, what do you think this is gonna do to the fan experience? Yeah, I think contactless is providing a quicker and a more effective engagement. So I will tap the card away, I go. I will be facial recognition and I go. I will be able to see the length of the queues and car parking or the length of the queue for the food. So all of this, how do we reduce that? Using technology will be a big thing. I hate to say to the Phillies, but your technology will be old technology. We will have a chip in our head or a chip in our hand. There's a reason why it's in animals. There's a reason why it is in animals to test. And I honestly believe in a Vruta blog about it that this chip will be your passport. So when I'm coming to see you, Angela, I will go to the airport. The chip will get me my passport details and say, ah, you have got your visa to come to America. I will go to your game with you. The chip in my hand will get me into the stadium. When I get into the stadium, the chip through Beacon Technology will send a message to my phone to say, do you want a hamburger, but with no cheese? Cause I know that's what you like with personalization. I will hit yes, I will go and collect it. I will go to my seat. I will then see when we score a goal, this will then tell my health and health related where my heart rate is. I'll be able to see all of that because what will happen, we will have more connected devices which creates more personalization through that technology. And it will always be linked to the chip in your hand or your head. People might think I'm a bit nuts, it's coming. And in certain cases, it's already here. And when you look, there's already cases of it. That is how we will buy and sell in the future. It will be all personalized and the data. That is why we're getting more data and the more servers to allow us to analyze that data and then for artificial intelligence to go on top of it. A lot of ways to customize the fan experience through that opportunity. And talk to me a little bit about how you measure success. What kind of indicators do you look to to determine that your strategies are successful? Yeah, so there's a couple of areas. So first and foremost, you look at the strategy itself and you do the progress of each objective. Has the KPI been met? And I normally use a rag column for red amber green in terms of has that been met? In other words, this was the target, what's been achieved? So that's one element. Number two, with the fans, experience the fans in terms of what's the brand sentiment? Are they more likely to buy and to go to games? Are they more behind you as a brand? Will they put your club logo on as a tattoo because they're even more excited about you? So that whole brand value bit is really important. And I think that also will widen out into other stakeholders like government and sponsors. If they are happy, they will come back. Treat them right and they will come back. And there is other areas you can get social media and all of that data. But you know what? And I'm going to go against all I've talked about with data. You know yourself. If you have organized good events, you know it. If you have done something great, a great conference, you know it. Sometimes a gut feeling is good in addition to all these other areas that I've touched on as well. You just know that it's making an impact. You can see people playing football, playing basketball, whatever the sport is that I deal with. So I think there is strategy. There is data in terms of sponsorship figures, brand figures with the sponsor, stakeholder analysis, all of those bits. But I'm old-school. I still like these things right. The feeling, the gut feeling. Jeff, if you could point to one thing other than it chips embedded in people, what does the future of sport look like? Briefly, what could you tell us was one thing? Yeah, it's going to be much more contactless. The stadiums will be more entertainment focused. And there will be a greater focus on not only sustainability, community, but also making the fans really part of the overall experience. Multiple nuggets. Thank you for your insight into that. And thanks for joining us today and sharing with us about sports strategies and consulting around the world. I appreciate your time, Jeff. Thank you so much. And it's great to be here. I wish everyone a lovely week. And go and remember, in sport, you're doing something amazing. Leave a legacy. I love that. Legal legacy, just like you are, Jeff. We appreciate that. And I know the people in your community must appreciate that too. Thank you to our viewers for joining us today on the sports playbook. Our next episode and guest will be Roxanne Steinhoff, who will discuss sports tourism and law. We will see you then.