 Hello, welcome everyone. Welcome to Afrofuturism's Reimagined Tomorrow's Event. This is a feature tense event hosted by New America. I'm Yatasha Womack. I'm author of the book Afrofuturism, the world of black sci-fi and fantasy culture. I'm a theorist. I'm a filmmaker. I'm a practitioner of Afrofuturism. And I teach dance therapy around Afrofuturism as well. And it is such a pleasure to be moderating this event for you. I want to give a special thank you to Future Tents and New America's event staff. They are amazing. And they brought us all together. And when I'm saying us, who am I talking about? I'm talking about the fantastic Dr. Nyong'o Lemumba-Casanga and Fabrice Garrier. Hello. This is so exciting. Hello. And happy new year. Oh, goodness. Happy new year to you. What a great year it is full of joy and enthusiasm as we're moving upwards and onwards. Well, tell me, well, okay. So whenever I do these talks, I always like to start off with just an explanation of what Afrofuturism is. And Afrofuturism is a way of looking at the future or alternate realities, but through a black cultural lens. And when I say black, I'm not just talking about black people in the United States, but black people in the diaspora, whether they're in Brazil or Jamaica, the Caribbean, Latin America, Europe, and of course the continent of Africa and elsewhere. Afrofuturism is an artistic aesthetic in that you do see it in music. And you're thinking about Janelle Monnet, you see it in film like Black Panther, of course. But Afrofuturism is also a, it's an epistemology or philosophy. And it's a methodology. And when I say a methodology, meaning it could be a practice. And it is for many people a way of pushing past any limitations they have around the imagination and having a sense of agency in the future. So it intersects the imagination, liberation, technology, mysticism, and black cultures. And it is also, it differs from a lot of other takes in the future, because it values the divine feminine, it values intuition, it sees mysticism and technology as being integrated. And it is, you know, most exciting to me because there's so much value of the imagination and visioning. And it reclaims a lot of the philosophies in the African continent and the diaspora and how they really synergize. So when we talk about Afrofuturism, we're really talking about where the diaspora and the continent meet with respect to how they see futures and how they see histories. And Afrofuturism time is nonlinear. So people are informed by futures in the same way they are informed by histories. Time is not moving on the straight line. We're kind of synergizing all these points in one. And you see that when you look at, say, Parliament Funkadelic album covers, if you're looking at even the cover for my Afrofuturism book, if you look at the cover for the new book Infinitum, and you think about a lot of music, it has some serious time travel elements to it, where there's very much a timelessness. So now that we have that established, I would love to just kind of read the bottles of our special guest here before we start asking them some questions. For Breeze, Gary A. is a Haitian-American author, a member of the World Economic Forum, DC Global Shaper Community, and a Forbes 30 under 30 class of 2021 individual highlighted for his art and style. He is a founder of sci-fi and fantasy production house, Sillable, where he helps writers hack the fullest creative potential through collaboration and crowdsourcing. His aim is to bring more access and opportunities to underrepresented voices and BIPOC, speculative fiction writers, while activating new political, sociocultural, and technological imaginations for a more just future. And we all want a more just future. So thank you, for Breeze, if you could just wave to the crowd, allow their virtual audience. And also, Dr. Anyango LaMumba Casango is a gateway postdoctoral fellow who's in the Department of Music. Oh, exciting, where she teaches courses in rap, songwriting, and feminist sound studies. She earned her PhD in science and technology studies from Cornell University in 2019. Her doctoral research explores the politics of community studios, a term she has developed for fixed and mobile recording studios that prioritize working with artists from underserved communities as well as women and non-binary artists. In addition, she performs original music as a producer and rapper under the moniker, Samus, which is so exciting. I've seen her perform. She's quite amazing. And in 2019, she began working as the director of audio at Glow Up Games, a women of color led game studio responsible for developing a rap composition video game based on the HBO scripted series, Insecure. Oh, that sounds really cool. So we have two fantastic individuals with us today. And I have the pleasure of getting to ask them questions about reimagining tomorrow's the lens of Afrofuturism. And my first question for both of you is how did you find your voice in Afrofuturism? Want to go first? Go for it, for Breeze. Okay, well, thank you. I'm extremely delighted to be part of this conversation with New America and really talking about something that's so extremely important right now. For me, I think it began back in Haiti when I was just a little boy. And I think a lot of what we learned in the classroom is that we're the first independent black country in the world and we look very much into the past. But when I moved to the US when I was 13, a lot of my identity as an Haitian was very much challenged. And I tried to find my voice in many different avenues. And really, I felt that a lot of the template reality that was given to me or that I had access to wasn't enough to capture the full depth and imagination of a lot of the inequities or the social problems or the historical traumas that I have come to realize still plagues our world. And especially for people of African descent, I feel like there is almost a missed opportunity because I feel a lot of the voices of the African descent people, which makes up a lot of big chunk of the planet is sort of pushed aside. And I think when you have a narrow view of how you define the future, a lot of that creativity, a lot of that imagination, I think is pushed aside as well. So you're going to end up with systems that don't honor liberation, that doesn't honor love. I think my personal voice for Afrofuturism was this realization that our current model, despite the innovations and the greatness that we claim it to be, there's still so much farther we have to be. I worked in a library in high school, and that was my way of escaping the world. And I read comics and stories and books and travel through different worlds that I tried to imagine. I love what you said, Natasha, about informed by the future. I think we always think about how the past informs us right now. But I think it's so important to realize that how we see the future and the limitation, the imagination about the future can impact our current society right now on the most profound collective level. I'll stop with that. No, that's great. And it's cool to hear that you're a library kid because I pride myself on reading all the black biographies in the kid section. When I was a kid, and I kept wondering why are these celebrities keep going to Paris in the 40s? What is with that? And at the time, I guess we knew anyone who left the country. I said, wow, they were so ahead of their time. But it was a great lens and read so many science books there as well. And reading, I think as a kid shaping our perspectives is amazing. But I agree that reclaiming and really trying to find your voice in a future led us to create some of the stories that we've created. What about you, Dr. Nyong'o? How did you find your voice? So first, again, let me just echo what Fabrice said about being so excited to be in this space. I'm just really juiced. I can't stop smiling. My cheeks are going to hurt after this conversation. But I think for me, my voice was the product of trying to find an aesthetic that I are trying to find a word or a phrase or a thing or a concept that could speak to the aesthetics that I was drawn to and that I found myself producing an art. And I didn't really know where that fit until kind of stumbling into this universe where all these folks had been making this art and had been having these conversations and dialogue. So a large part of that for me was I grew up in Ithaca, New York and upstate New York. My parents, my dad's from the Congo, my mom's from the Ivory Coast, and we were one of very few Black families, one of very few immigrant families in Ithaca. So really, my universe was my brain, like my head was where I spent a lot of time. So both of you are book nerds. I feel very kindred. We're kindred spirits. I spent a lot of time reading and just trying to kind of craft worlds in my brain. And I became really attached to video games and video game universes in particular. So as I was growing up, the Nintendo, the Sega Genesis, the Super Nintendo, these systems were starting to become more popular. And even though the games I played didn't reflect me as a Black girl, trying to find her voice, there was something about being able to explore in these universes that really spoke to me. So I kept returning to video games first in terms of the music. I loved video game music and wanted to craft video game music when I grew up and learned how to kind of produce. But even in terms of the aesthetics, so once I started kind of making music and rapping and producing after I graduated from college, a lot of the frames of reference for my hip hop became video games, like I was always thinking about myself in terms of video games and of course, talking about my race to gendered experience of the world, but also linking that into popular video game discourses. So it became this kind of interesting mix of Black feminist thought and video game ideas and identities. And as I started sharing my music, more folks were directing me to artists who were doing similar kinds of things, who were engaging with parts of geek culture, Black radical traditions, Black feminist thought, and we're bringing them together. And it was finally, I think around 2010, 2011, when somebody said, oh, the music you make is nerdcore music, which is like hip hop that is infused with sort of like geek identities. But I felt like that wasn't the right fit because it didn't center kind of Black ideas or Blackness at the core of what, you know, was driving that musical form. So then I was introduced to Afrofuturism, and I felt like this speaks to what I'm trying to get at by placing myself in these video game universes and trying to take them on as an artist and trying to tell a story that both speaks to who I am, but also envisions a world in which the characters in the games look like me and look like my friends and tell our story. So I think it was definitely yearning for an aesthetic and then realizing that there was this whole universe of folks who were already in conversation about what this aesthetic means. I think, like you said, in practice and as a politic, and that really awakens some things for me. Yeah, it's so interesting because I frequently say that I was an Afrofuturist and didn't know I was an Afrofuturist in that while the term itself was created in the 90s and referenced or used in an essay called Black to the Future by Mark Dairy and actually popularized in part because Alondra Nelson started her late 90s, early 2000s listserv, Dr. Alondra Nelson. She created this listserv where she brought a lot of people together using that term Afrofuturism to really intersect these ideas of liberation, technology, mysticism, and black culture and the imagination. But that term, you know, it still was sort of slow to get into conversation with other people beyond those circles who were really working with these terms. And I remember hearing the term for the first time and, you know, having started my career off as a journalist thinking, wait a second, why haven't I heard this term before? Yeah, I've been writing about culture. I mean, it's a sci-fi, I like science, I like, you know, fantasy, but more specifically, I was more excited about kind of claiming a voice in black culture because a lot of the works presented to us didn't show that. I think one of my Genesis moments was being a kid and watching both the whiz and roots the miniseries. So this is complicated history. There's this family story, but then there's also this world of magic, wonder and fantasy. And I think that played a big role in Tile. I saw Afrofuturism. And I'm wondering for, so that said, the term is a big deal. And because, you know, there are people working with that term working with the ideas, who didn't know the term and the term, but they anchored a lot of creatives, a lot of theorists, and also helped to create a, provide a new lens for people who have been doing work in that area before. And so that helped empower people working in that area, and help people find their works. And I'm wondering, what is it about Afrofuturism that excites you, though? I want to respond to what I said before. I think I also I'll merge you with what excites me. I feel like when a group of people are tied to a sort of level of consciousness, it allows movement building, it allows social change, there's some change to happen at a much faster rate. I think what what excites me about Afrofuturism is so much of the world. Like, I totally agree with the same as that. Like, I didn't see myself represented in stories or in films and movies. And just by the fact of me being black, I think there's this whole wealth of knowledge from philosophers, from writers, like activists, radical, like, thought in terms of how do we shape our world around? Like, and how do we do this without fear? And I feel like Afrofuturism provides, I don't know, I just think like it's it's such a powerful way to kind of captivate people of African descent, but also people that are not from African descent, to understand what does it take to lift ourselves up in a way that we from a bottom up process, I think it's because I think a lot of change sometimes comes from a very top down. And I feel like Afrofuturism is very much like a bottom up, like from the heart, to the mind, to the future. And it's almost in terms of embracing where you come from in that I can tell the story, and I'm part of this story, and I can co create this future. I don't know, I think there's a lot of innovations happening, a lot of revolutions that's happening right now across the board, whether it's politically, technologically, or climate change issues. I feel like we need new ideas. And, and Afrofuturism can provide that on not only on interpersonal level, but also on a collective level. And allowing people to really understand something that's been left out out of there just a broader cultural streams of thought. Right, really claiming these aspects of the culture that for any number of reasons, people didn't get to engage in those thoughts from a global standpoint, you know, I mean, we're all human beings. And these experiences and this wealth of information that comes from the from the contemplations of people in the continent, diaspora can really help everyone. And but it's so good to claim that it's coming from those spaces, because so much of modernity and new futures have been shaped sometimes by black thought, without always getting the credit for that. What about you, Dr. Nyong'o, what, what, how are you inspired by Afrofuturism? What inspires you, excites you about it? I think what's so exciting to me about Afrofuturism in part is that because it comes from the sort of sci fi speculative future space, it has so much to do with storytelling, it emphasizes for me the importance of storytelling within our society culturally. And as we, you know, many of us know in in African West African traditions, the storyteller the Bard takes, you know, is a very important figure in society. And that continues, I think, throughout various black lineage lineages were storytelling orality, being able to craft an experience in terms of a story is like a really critical way of conveying I think what Fabrice is talking about how we can change things, how we can can create some momentum around something. So I'm really excited by the framework of thinking about our reality as a story that we're actively writing into, we're actively building and addressing and engaging. And, you know, if for me, coming from science and technology studies, it's really interesting to think about the areas of overlap and dissonance, because in some regard, you know, STS is very committed to this idea that the world is socially constructed, right? The truth science and technology are, you know, human made endeavors, and we have to keep that at the core. But on the other hand, there are ways in which black understandings of the world don't necessarily make it into the canon, right? And the relationships between as you're talking about Itasha mysticism and technology, those things are separated. And so there's a way in which Afrofuturism tries to reconcile and through storytelling tries to reconcile these ways of understanding the world. So I'm just really, really excited that it enables us to, to think in terms of storytelling about every endeavor that we try to pursue in the future as present past. Right, absolutely. Yes, we're great. No, I was just going to echo what Dr. Inongo said, in terms of, of like, it's all about meaning. And it's like the or meaning geography needs to evolve. And so oftentimes, that meaning has been very violent. In terms of now allowing us to express the full depth and spectrum of what we can be as human beings. And I think collectively, like I really like what you said around the storytelling, it's we're actively going in and reshaping and adding our modules. That's very powerful. I think it's so true. I think it's it is about storytelling. And we have to claim that story. And we each have a story to tell. Yeah, and the relationship to the future, you know, I mean, I think one of the interesting things is that Afrofuturism seems so novel for some people, because they're using the word, you know, a variation of the word Africa and future, and the same, you know, word and suddenly realize that they don't always associate those two things together. And, you know, that creates a bit of cognitive dissonance of wait a minute, you know, what kind of ideas am I socialized into? What am I not connecting with? You know, what aspects of myself am I denying? You know, sort of being shaped into an idea of not just who I am, but how my future is supposed to be. And, you know, I just find that really fascinating. Earlier for Breece, you talked about Afrofuturism is filling very sort of bottom up in terms of its energy. And it made me think about, you know, for people who are into dance or into yoga, this idea of moving energy up your root chakra, kind of on your core and, you know, out into the stratosphere. And Afrofuturism is very much aligned to thinking that way. Can you name any individuals who in recent years, well, not just recent years, anyone, maybe their historical figure, maybe their contemporary artists or thinker today, who because of this time Afrofuturism, you now see their work in a different lens. I can jump in here. There's an artist whom I absolutely adore. She's Philadelphia based, more mother, Kamei Ayewa. She's part of a collective called Black Quantum Futurism. And I've just have been so drawn to her work because she actively refuses labels. She actively refuses labels and every aspect of her work that I think is so remarkable and freeing. And as we're thinking about future spaces, right, the one of the issues we run up against is using our contemporary labels for a space that hasn't even come to be yet. And so I think in her refusal of these, you know, genre, right, like the kind of tyranny of genre. It's it's for me, the liberatory practice of thinking about well, why do I as you were saying, Itasha, why do I think in these ways? Why do I immediately call myself indie rap artists? Like, where does this label come from? And why is that the only framework that I would be, you know, calling my music or thinking about where it fits or my practice. So I just love the work that she's doing. And I also love how her collective thinks a lot about time. And it's helped me to think a little bit about what it means to liberate ourselves from the constructs of how time functions, kind of capitalist time, and industrial time, and really thinking about those structures in my life and how they've enforced ideas of success and failure, and where I need to be who I need to be, you know, in a particular timeline. So I just encourage everybody, M O R mother, please look up her music, buy all of her music, band cam, and support her because she's really trying to do a lot of interesting things and have many, many dialogues. Yeah, more mother is fascinating. I'm glad she brought her up as an artist. And I have to just acknowledge before I turn the question to you for breeze. Dr. Nyong'o, in your performances, you have a robotic arm. Yes. Yes, I would love to. So the character that my rap named Samus comes from a particular video game character named Samus with one M. And in the video game Metroid where she comes from, at the end of the game, you've played the game in this armor suit. And when the armor suit is removed, you learn that this character is this woman. And you know, the game came out in 1987. So there were there were not many playable women characters at that point. So this was really a revelation for me. I was very shocked. And it forced me to challenge some gendered ideas I had been thinking through my my little kid brain. And she has this giant arm cannon as part of her her her cybernetic power suit. So when I adopted this name and decided that I wanted to kind of tell her story as my story, it felt like, you know, I want to do this in a way that reflects some of the iconography of that story, because so many video game folks are familiar with that. So it will be this radical moment when I'm the person who wears the arm cannon. And so I have a friend in Chicago, she put this arm cannon together for me. And and so I wear it during shows, when I'm performing songs that are part of this, this EP that I put together to honor the story of Samus. And it's been a really it's made me think about cosplay within an Afrofuturist lens. It was something that I hadn't sort of associated or understood in that way. But thinking about all of the black cosplayers who are inhabiting realities that maybe they weren't a part of or repurposing bringing in materials and you know, patterns designs that reshape the original aesthetic, I think is just like the coolest thing ever. So yeah, that's how my arm cannon kind of fits in. Right now, that's so fascinating. Yeah, I have to give you your props. You're talking about more mother. I was like, well, thank you. Yes. And for brief, you know, tell us is there a person who's kind of coming to mind when you're thinking about Afrofuturs and historical figure or person today? That's I don't know. You just have a different take on. Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, like, I think the seeds were were interwoven. So and like so much in the past as like a Haitian, I'm going to bring back the Haitian Revolution again. I feel like bring up the Haitian Revolution. A group of African descent people and also Europeans as well, who dreamed of a different future, where and where everywhere around the world, black bodies were being sold. And I feel that is such an Afrofuturist thought, like just me just really digesting of what does it mean to be connected to that past and that history? I feel like for me, that the Haitian Revolution and what it stands for, and like birthing Latin American history and unfolding this sort of breath that I'm still feeling to this day, I feel like I have to like mention that first. I feel like that has for sure influenced me the most in terms of reshaping my aesthetic and in a way that I can own myself in a way that I can breathe in a way that I can create. So I think that I bring that I bring those people with me, like wherever I go, I'm in the art that I create. And the words that I speak, because it's just like to imagine that in 1804, people were dreaming of a future where they did, like everyone around them was like, that future is crazy. Like you can live fully human and those aspects. But also to fast forward a little bit, I think just I think a lot of black thoughts just like James Baldwin or Octavia Butler, I'm diving into a lot of Octavia Butler stories right now. I feel their words and their visions are so prophetic in terms of what's happening in society, because it almost seems that a lot of what they're talking about these cycles just keeps repeating over and over and over, like the historical trauma passed down, like in our physical black bodies and the system encoded in our culture, and the incentivization and how systems are built to incentivize certain structures. I feel by that fact, these writers are speaking to something so eternally. But I feel like my question, I think I want to maybe ask the group is like, where does Afrofeuturism come in? And how do we evolve those the cycles of violence that like evolve and turn to different faces and different structures, but have the same core essence? Like how do we heal? And I feel like Afrofeuturism has a role to play in that. I'm glad that you brought that up, actually, because people often ask, you know, they talk about Afrofeuturism. They say, man, there's so much discussion of history in Afrofeuturism. And again, you know, these are paradigms where people are being informed by histories and futures to transform a present, almost as if these times are really sort of layered. And I think when you talk about how you break those sorts of cycles, I think the reclaiming of some of these other wisdom systems and that lens paired with some of the technologies provides a great provides a lot of insight for people and and provides a lot with respect to resilience. And we have a couple questions coming in. And I'm going to get to some of those in about 10 minutes. So so just hold on and continue to put them out there. I want to just, you know, I think it's really interesting. I'm wondering if you can comment a bit on this idea of why futures and histories are so synergized. You know, what's the value in that? You know, for some people, we're like, well, when are you going to talk about the future? And they're like, well, wait a second. There's a reason. And I like to mention the San Cofa, the idea of San Cofa. And for some of you might be familiar with it. It's a it's a symbol and comes out of Ghana that really it's an image of a bird looking back at its tail and egg on its tail. And, you know, it's kind of an awkward looking image. But the point is that you're looking at the past and as you're moving forward, you know, meaning and not that you're moving backwards and essentially that you're looking to be looking at the pulling from the best of these histories and moving forward. And I think for people of African descent, especially the resilience that comes from that is so valuable. And I just want to I'm wondering in your thinking about someone like WB the boys, right, who both was the stearist, you know, pretty much he articulated some of the core issues that people were contemplated in the 20th century. And he was starting to think about these ideas in the 1890s, ironically enough. But then simultaneously, we find that he did create right sci fi stories. And he wrote the comic, he wrote a fantasy story. One of those stories inspired Megascope, which is an imprint down by John Jennings's graphic novels coming out. And I can probably talk a bit about that later. But I'm wondering for you, what is this relationship between this theory, these contemplations on these histories and futures and the creative process? Because you both pull from from these, you know, for breeze with the work that you're doing. And please tell us a little more about this storytelling, crowdsourcing entity that you have. And same thing with you, Dr. Nyango, you are pulling, you know, as a theorist, you're pairing that with your work as a rap artist. And I'm just hoping, and obviously I do the same, but more about that as a lens for you. Because I think it's a big part of the Afro features methodology. Absolutely. Do you want to go? Sure, sure, I can jump in here. But I think it's a really fabulous question because it pulls it from the level of just the kind of conceptual into the the realm of practice, like how in our daily lives and in our work is this beautiful way of thinking about the world emerging. And I would say for me, one of the just going back to what you were saying, even before the question that I found so profound about this conversation between past, present, future, is that there's a fundamental narrative, you know, Western narrative around progress that has been so destructive to this, you know, the environment to people to, you know, just our our understanding of the world, this narrative of progress and of move forward rather than kind of circular and constantly in conversation. And so I think as an artist, one of the ways that I see that being beneficial is that I can think about my art as me being in conversation with myself. And one of the ways that that emerges is that I can speak about a thing in a particular time. And then I can speak about that same thing later and have grown and changed and kind of have a call back to that earlier moment in my career. So for example, I have songs that I've released, where I articulate one point, and then I change my mind. And I decide, you know what, I'm going to write a song that responds to that or responds to this earlier me who was thinking in this way. And so if you're thinking in terms of progress, maybe it doesn't allow space for you to be in conversation with past versions of yourself or be in conversation with others. So I think it's really rooted in, you know, other black forms of art making that have to do with loops and cycles and always kind of being in conversation with the past, but really thinking about how to do that in a way that breaks down hierarchy, that breaks down notions of progress that are really debilitating, I think, for artists in trying to think of what are the other frameworks I can use for growing my craft, then the ones that are commonly presented and that put things in this binaries of good, bad. So I think that's sort of how it comes across in my practice is how can I speak to myself and leave room for growth and I guess evolution is maybe another way of thinking about that concept. Yeah, one of the postmodern examples of that, which we sort of take for granted is the hip hop culture of remixing, you know, whether it's DJs, remixing, pulling different samples. And it's really deconstructs time. It's a collage in some ways, but it is more like a musical symbolism of something that people of African descent have been doing for some time, which is pulling from these different fabrics, pulling from histories and futures and kind of you're always sort of preserving, but in this very sort of non-traditional format. Well, in traditional, I use that somewhat loosely because there's a tradition in doing that. It's just one that's typically African. And you saw it in the quote work in the past and you see it and how people live their lives and some of the approaches to not just creativity, but just thinking and looking on new futures. And what about you for Grace? Yeah, I think there's more stuff back. I think my first thought is that I feel like I I would love to comment. I think it was Christian Murray that said like the greatest art is the art of living. And I always I always feel like humanity is is our artists. And I think a lot of people don't see themselves as created, don't see themselves as artists. And I think there is like a moral obligation to see ourselves as creators. And to go to what Dr. Inongo said, in terms of like finding different spatial time ways of navigating the world, I totally agree. I think our current spatial dialectic in terms of like how modernity is framed nations in terms of OK, this nation in 15 years is going to be more like this nation and 15 years is going to be more like the US. And then if you put the US, if every country was like the US, like that finite mindset with infant with that infinite mindset with finite resources, it's like we're bound for destruction. I think we need that circular level of time bound, like time timeless thinking in terms of like how can we different aspects of ourselves, different histories of ourselves and how it synthesizes in the future. And I really appreciate what you meant with mysticism as well, Natasha. I think I think there is a such a fundamental mystical aspect to being human and also being from the people of African descent in terms of transcending the two dimensional good or bad paradigm or even the three dimensional. If you start going up, it's time itself is a dimension. So I think when you start to really engage your creative process and you start to create with reality as stories, as meaning making creatures, I think there is something so empowering in terms of the imagination and and and leveraging everything on the table to reshape something with new ideas, not with the same ideas. And also to connect with some of the questions in the work in syllable. I think the basic premise of syllable, the sci fi and fantasy production outside found it is is that writers can go further together and I personally feel like a lot of creatives or even I would say specifically writers, they're very nomadic, they're very hunter-gatherers, they're by themselves. And they want to go in their cave and work on their like great arts. And I think that's great. I'm that way too. But I feel like in the context that we're living right now, like big creative brands are choking out creativity. They're not giving permission to thrive and not only economically, but also on a very well-being level. So my work with syllable is really trying to radically like engage something that has existed, the idea of collectors. How do we bring creatives together to imagine a fictional world and leverage that world so they can write together and then we help them get their work out there? And I think there's also another piece in terms of of that that collective genius and in leveraging that so people can really imagine. And I really love what you said as well with the storyteller in West Africa, how the storyteller is so important in African society. I think storytellers are going to play a critical role in the next 10, 20 years and allowing people to imagine a future that they never thought could be possible because there's a lot of people that I excited me to say that they like their ability to imagine something different doesn't come naturally to them and so their gifts are in terms of how the society has molded so much around what's possible and not possible. So I think storytellers and the change in technology, I think something like syllable could not have existed, let's say 50 years ago. So this is my attempt to to galvanize the collective force and creative force of writers to work in in collectors in shared universes and also advance their work through that universe instead of working by themselves like very nomadically and the way that they kind of create short stories and books. Yeah. Yeah, this is a really fascinating time because it's after Black Panther has come to prominence. And when we did a future since talk a couple of years ago about Afro features, and it was before Black Panther, the film had arrived. Obviously Black Panther hit on all notes, the mysticism, technology, imagination, liberation and the Black cultural themes, which made it one of the most amazing Marvel films and just a special film for a lot of people around the world. But we're also in a period where we, you know, a really interesting year with 2020, I say interesting, likely, and we're in a time where we have a new administration. And I'm just wondering how did you use Afrofuturism to how did you use Afrofuturism? What insight did you gain into it moving into 2021? And I'll go first. Yes. First to this question, for me, you know, I always talked about Afrofuturism as resilience. And when, you know, with the onset of some of the things in 2020, you know, I found myself thinking very deeply about ancestors, people in the past, what they did. But then also, what are the things you need around you to keep you in a high vibration? Because, you know, I think one thing that Afrofuturism reminds us of is that and you don't want to capitulate to the moment because the moment does not necessarily define who you are and it's also temporal. And so in that, where is it you're trying to go? And who do you need to be to stay in vibration with that goal? And that had me thinking of things that were really basic, you know, what colors do I need to wear? What music do I need to listen to? What kind of am I dancing? Am I with the community? Who am I talking to? You know, what foods am I eating? What teas am I drinking? You know, all sorts of things, you know, what nurtures your soul that still kind of stays in the realm of basics became really, really interesting contemplation for me. And what about the the two of you? And then all the weeks are exciting audience questions. I can just jump in quickly I think. And echoing everything that you said about really listening, listening, you know, to those very sort of a bottom of Maslow's hierarchy, you know, knees am I hungry? Am I tired? What's really going on physiologically right now that needs attention and care? I think the other thing is someone like more mother and son, Rah have often made are often referenced in relation to the ideas of the apocalypse, like the end of the world, right? And and one of their key insights is that the apocalypse has already happened. Like, let's say that the apocalypse already took place now what, you know, and so instead of kind of sitting and in the anxiety of like, when is the end of the world coming? It's like the end of the world came a million times over and over again. So now we're in a space of rebuilding, like if we're to imagine that this already took place, we've survived. And so they're the way that we can carve a path forward. And I found that to just be so particularly over the summer. I think it was really, really hard to to find the strength to get to get out of bed, to not be angry, to the enraged to the point of not, you know, being able to to really sleep or take care of those basic needs. But I think thinking about it like these are are growing pains and we are moving through something and not towards an end was really, really powerful for me as an insight. Yeah, I never saw it as an end. And I think, you know, one of the things that makes afro features and probably a little different from cyberpunk moments, you know, there's always this idea of moving towards the end of the world when for some of us colonization or the trans Atlantic slave trade, those were ends of war. And we're obviously on the other side of that. And it changes the lens of a thing in an interesting kind of way. I'm glad you mentioned Sun Rock, who's usually mentioned all the time in these talks and and we're getting around to you now. At this point in the program, they are for Greece. What about you? Was there these moments of resilience and contemplation around Afro features and coming out of 2020, moving into 2021? Absolutely. I think last year was an unimaginable, like I don't even know how I don't even have words to describe what last year was in terms of collectively, what was happening with the racial unrest, George Floyd, or even politically, what was going on. I felt that. I told I that resonates with me so much in terms of Dr. Noggo, you said in terms of the the Maslow's hierarchy, I feel like the way that I've stepped into 2021 is that I am unapologetic around those basic needs. It's like, am I getting enough water? Am I meditating every other day? Am I running? Am I eating my bowls of salad? Am I consuming good art that brings joy in life to me? And if I don't have those principles, I know I'm going to feel the apocalyptic nature of the way the system is designed to do all the things that he's doing right now. So and I think that it is imminent for all of us, everyone in the call to to realize that those things can contribute to or can does contribute to change and does contribute to lack of change as well. I think yeah, I think 2020 for sure has taught me that language that I have to fight for those basic needs because they're so important, like getting 78 hours. I was asleep, like something as simple as that. It's like before, like when I was in college, like sleep was the last thing that I felt like I needed. Now I'm like, this is almost like a non-negotiable. So I feel resilience is, I think I've healed. It's sort of like the valley of the darkness. It's like you go to the deepest of the darkness and I think collectively this racial enlightenment that happened around conversation with race and with different industries, whether it's in Hollywood or whether it's in technology or Wall Street, whatever, in politics, I think a lot of people that was sort of the valley of darkness for a lot of people that haven't been black, that have not been like people of African descent or minorities. So I don't know, I think resilience is at the center for 2021. Absolutely. I found myself doing a weekly IG live during the period in which I continue to do called Utopia Talks and created it specifically to say, hey, everybody, we've got to keep it moving and keep it moving. Didn't mean, you know, let's just be overproductive and achieve every goal we ever wanted to achieve like we're on vacation. Keeping it moving was let's let's really ground ourselves but keep the vision, you know, and not capitulate. And so this this visioning or this imagination, I had so much appreciation for people who created amazing art, movies, music, film that I could engage in. So I've reached out while these dance teachers and dancers I could do. And all of this stuff became very interdimensional at some point. But also just this idea of the vision for a future. Yeah, I think it was very, very powerful and played a big role and had a very practical nature to it. Besides just the value of imagination for fun, the imaginations for everyone. So we have some really cool questions here. Wanted to run them by you. One of our questions by one of our attendees is what sort of manufacturing community or industry would you dream of being formed around some of your Afro future specialties? I mean, I know there's a lot of talk now about it. There's a lot of talk about, you know, certain kind of modeling, 3D printing. Obviously, SpaceX is taking off. We have a whole new industry, space industry. If I could jump in, you know, I would just I think in looking at creating some of these new societies and in space, some of the work that people are doing and creating the technologies to get us onto Mars or onto other space stations. And I would love there to be more thought about the culture, the community and the life that we're creating, what we want to bring with us. And when we start to create these societies and not just the technologies we need to get there or the value of the things we need to mine. Maybe there should be some of this talk about colonization of space sounds like some things we've been through before that didn't have the best of outcomes. So besides the language change, I think there's also a philosophy change that I would appreciate and some thought about just the multitude of thought philosophically around how to approach creating new societies in these worlds. Do either of you have thoughts on certain manufacturing dynamics? And I know someone is a person asking is probably like, hey, that doesn't have anything to do manufacturing. But I think the question of why are we doing what we're doing? As we create these technologies and realizing technology isn't just the quote unquote machinery of the digital space, but it is thinking. Is a thought process is our technologies, writing is a technology. Any thoughts, Dr. Nyong'o or Fabrice, about the manufacturing? I think it's interesting that, like you said, the use of the word manufacturing, just because when I think about industry, honestly, I start to think about education and, you know, kind of the the complex that has developed around what education is and how radically it needs to be shifted around joy, pleasure, exploration, liberation, having taught on an elementary school level and that having taught in the university context. It's it's, you know, students arrive to my class having never been told that they can have a thought of their own. And, you know, these are 17, 18, 19 year olds, you know, individuals who have never who have only thought in terms of doing the right thing so they can get from point A to point B. So my hope would be radical reimagination of what education even looks like. I don't even know if that would be the term, but how we usher little people into being big people with skills and ideas and a sense of self and a love and and a sense of their own story. I think going back to storytelling that was really missing for me as a kid. I think you, Tasha, bringing up, you know, getting deep into the library and doing that research on your own as a kid, you know, like that's so powerful to me. And I wish that there were was infrastructure for more kids to be able to be able to follow that path when it's when it strikes them. So I think education as an industry needs to be totally, totally, totally, totally reworked. Yeah, Afrofuturism is a quest for sure. It takes you deeper into inner and outer space, I believe. Fabrice, did you have any thoughts? Yeah, I think we've spoken a little bit on that in terms of the growth mindset that we have in terms of development. And I feel like if we are ever to have something that is sustainable, that is something that is viable, that we need to include black thought, black thinking on the represented voices that have been left out. I think right now there's a major conversation or reckoning that's happening in Silicon Valley where these major tech companies have felt that they were changing the world and creating greater access and opportunities, which we can argue yes, they definitely have. But I think there's an underlying framework where we're looking at how the technology is built by whom it is built and how these industries and innovative processes are being formed. Those biases are seeped out into those industries and these manufacturing communities or those new ways of being in terms of an economy. And I totally agree with you, this idea of colonizing Mars. I remember when I first heard that and I like literally wrote a volume about it. I was like, why we should not colonize Mars? I think we're depriving ourselves of we're depriving ourselves of so much magic and potential and sustainability by by using the same language of like of utilitarianism in terms of defining something by its utility and its production and its growth process. So I think there's a lot of opportunities to bring Afrofuturism and and engaging a more holistic model of growth because yes, those industries are not going to go anywhere. Like I have my I have an Apple iPhone like those industries are not going to go anywhere. I think they have engaged your life in very meaningful ways and but I do feel like there is a fundamental need to include Black thoughts under opinion voices in this construction or manufacturing process of those new industries. Right. So that's question here. Afrofuturism is future affirming in a way that white U.S. movements are not sure some might debate with that. But how is it? How do the positives and negatives of the past propel thought forward and backwards? Is there a folding backwards and forwards of time and experience? Thank you for that question, Heather. And this goes back to I think some of the time questions that we were sort of talking about. And I think that goes into some of these philosophies, you know, all African, most African ethnic groups have their own sort of maybe systems and practices and many of which have a relationship to time and sort of speak to that and a deep dive into that, I think are pretty interesting. And in the diaspora, you see it threaded in many ways to. We and there's a folding of this time, you know, now we're going into quantum physics world. I think I don't know. Well, I have some thoughts on it, but I want to say in Dr. Nyango and Fabrice, do you have any thoughts? Yeah, I think so I was just reading this quote this morning that history doesn't necessarily repeat itself, but it rhymes, right, that there's so there's relationships between these moments. And it's not always going to come out in the same exact way. But we see that there there are formats, right? There are like formats of ways that historical events unfold and we see those formats being reproduced. So I mean, I guess I'm a little unsure about what's meant by the like positives and negatives. I think what's being said is that if there's too much focus on the past or maybe there's an insinuation, if there's too much focus on the past that we can lose sight of possibilities. But I mean, I would say that the past is endlessly is necessary for understanding people, how humans work and think, you know, like there's I watch a lot of history documentaries, and I'm always laughing to myself because it's like these people in 1862 were as petty as you know, the petty over the same types of stuff. And it's this wonderful affirmation to me is that humans are going to be human, right? And so I think that revelation in itself is really powerful. So I'm maybe not answering the question, but I don't see the negatives in being deeply connected with how folks in the past have moved. You know, I think it just involves creating space for like Itasha has with utopia talks and freedom dreaming, just creating space for totally thinking about a future that's not tethered to any specific historical moment. Right. And that's always a challenge for Grace. Yeah, I think I'll add a quick thought. I think like for me, it's sort of the metaphor of the blind man and the elephant, each of the blind man or touching a different part of the elephant, but they don't know they're touching the elephant or it but only together can they have a bigger, a more understanding of what's the whole. And I think that question is so powerful, because it's like, how do we evolve our systems and how do we take the quote unquote, the soul feeling the good, sustainable aspects of the past from all cultures from all sides and create a tapestry or something that is meaningful for the collective? Because I definitely do not want to romanticize humanity. We are we are imperfect species. So I think we're continually having to reassess our culture or ways or behaviors. And I think in light of that question is like, how I don't know, I don't think I have an answer now, but I do feel it's almost this coming together to to maybe more blind spots. But I think to add a caveat into this is the power structures. And I think that's what makes it almost so impossible because if the power structures are are inherently set up to disadvantage of certain groups of people is how do we even how can we even claim to say that parts of the culture for this disadvantage groups of people is quote unquote, not honoring of the collective? So I think that there's a lot of tensions and complexities in that question. I really appreciate that. No, thank you. And so we have three other questions. We are at the time in the program where officially we're supposed to wrap up. So I'll read these these questions and maybe if we could just kind of get some insight somewhat abbreviated into them, that would be super awesome. Jasmine wants to know what role do you see Afro horror speaking to this understanding of the future within the umbrella of Afro features and just thinking of the popularity that Jordan pills movies have gotten in our current moment. And very cool question there of the term Afro horror is sometimes now called the ethnographic. So you might want to just kind of put that in your notes as well. So what do you think about some of the horror stories and keep in mind everything that speculative doesn't necessarily have to fall under the umbrella of Afro futurism. And there is a larger umbrella of black speculative thinking that includes surrealism and Afro features and and or what we're calling the ethnographic in some ways. Any thoughts on on that, especially in relationships and dealing with traumas? Yeah, I would sort of follow up exactly what she said that it I think in some ways black horror is this way of engaging with unspeakable horror that there's again kind of a format that we're familiar with in the horror film that we're able to repurpose, remix, rework in a way that speaks to our lens of the world. And I think framing a lot of black experiences in terms of horror is an important distinction. Like using that bucket to to frame what has often been everyday life for for black folks, right? The picture of many instances can reflect the horrors of trying to exist in a in a space where systems are actively trying to kind of crush and and disable your ability to move through them. So I think the the terminology is really important there, like the genre is doing a lot of work in illuminating what horror can look like on the everyday and on the structural. Yeah, I'll leave it at that. Absolutely. So the other question, how this is by Sekou, how do we protect against the exploitation of commodification of Afro features and in its usage? That's a that's a very tough question. And to comment to comment the same as quite about I'll go to the whole question first. I do feel that the idea of you leveraging fiction and you leveraging stories as a template, it encodes so much information in it. It's like I always it's like it's it's almost like a mythological tool, an ancient tool that can radically reshape people's symbolic structure or meaning structure. So I think horror and understanding our own live experience and I think Jordan appears as such a fascinating job and that in terms of exploitation and commodification, I I don't know. I think I think a lot of it has to do with how do we how do we because a lot of OK, so it's like I think we exist in the very capitalist system and I think there's a lot of unintended consequences because of that. But I do feel like what's coming for me is how do we move that wealth towards underrepresented communities? Because I think a lot of the exploitation and common commodification is because the the group of people or that if after two futurism is being commodified and exported, that means that wealth is not going back to the actual creators who are creating this. So I think a way that we can do this is creating more creator owned systems that are that are more outside of the traditional terms of engagement of having a single group of of of a gatekeeper defining what's happening. And I think we're seeing a lot of change in that. I don't have a specific answer in terms of exploitation and commodification, but I do know like things such as the sharing economy, how technology is decentralizing things, also the work I'm doing with syllable. I think how do we give more access and opportunities for people to own their ideas and and connect and create together? And I think for me, the answer lies with wealth, but I'm not exactly sure where I would take it further than that, because I think we are enthralled in this this system of capitalism. And I would say to that in the same way that the science fiction genre didn't prevent people from thinking about their futures, Afrofuturism, even in its, you know, even if the artistic aesthetic of it is utilized to create a lot of cultural product that is commodified in some ways, that it doesn't take away from the fact that it's a practice for people and that they have a relationship to the future and that there's a philosophy behind it. People of African descent and on the continent had a relationship to futures before the term Afrofuturism, and they'll have it even, you know, at points when it's more accessible to people in terms of cultural production and music and works and films and so forth. And our next question is what stories do you think aren't being told or not told enough from an Afrofuturist perspective? And I can jump in just a second for that one. I, you know, some of these stories, I think it's interesting for people to keep in mind that the marketplace it's only been in recent years that they've been more receptive to stories from this perspective. It's not that nobody ever thought of any or they didn't talk about any or that they didn't write any, but they were not in the marketplace and accessible to various people. So we're really at a moment in time where there's sort of a floodgate of new and wonderful stories that are starting to to come into to become more accessible, widely accessible for people. And that's in part because of the technologies. It's in part because the indie movement and some of these collective movements, like the one for Brice, has been a part of. It's in part because we like Dr. Nyong'o's and indie artists who are just like, hey, I'm making my thing and I'm putting out there. And that led to a crusting, which led to Black Panther, which has led to more interest in the subject matter. So. And yeah, I think that there's there's so many stories to be told. Because then very few have been told in a way that we can get access to. But Dr. Nyong'o and for Brice, are there any cool stories you'd love to see? I mean, I want to echo what you're saying, Natasha, around like like access, because a lot of the time, something that I found as it relates often to like women working within sound is that people will say, oh, there's no, we need to to work on the pipeline because there's no women who are producers or studio folks. And then you do the tiniest bit of research, right? And there's so many women who are doing this work. There's they've been there and they'll continue to be there. But folks haven't necessarily done the work to elevate those individuals. So I think maybe the question rather than like what stories do we want to be told? It's like what stories we want to have elevated because I'm sure the work is being done. Just as Natasha and Fabrice have said, you know, these stories have existed before the label. They'll continue into eternity. I would love to see, you know, LGBTQIA stories myself. I would like to do the work of finding those stories within Afrofuturist conversations. But again, I'm I'm willing to bet anything on the fact that these stories exist in a wide variety and in a number of different formats and places. But it's incumbent on us as consumers and and participants in this form to do the work of finding. And when you love it, tweet about it and Instagram and post about it. I just want to say, Natasha is like my favorite person to follow on all platforms because she's just emanating with light always. Every post is always just keeps folks lifted, I think, and encourages good energy, which is really, really, you know, in short supply, I think, these days. So it's really nice to when you see something that you love, just blast it, blow it up, share it. And thank you so much for saying that, Dr. Nyong'o, I appreciate that. I try to stay up late for brief. Yeah, I echo a lot with Dr. Nyong'o said in your Natasha. I think I think this is a conversation of elevation. I think the stories have existed for eons and they are being told. I think it's it's how do we elevate those stories to the mainstream that are sort of moving and shaping or minds or collective minds? Yeah, I totally agree. I think for me, I totally agree. I think LGBT visions of the future, ways of being outside of the traditional norms I think also for Asian perspective, as well, I would call. I think there's so much wealth like that of indigenous folks, people from different tribal communities in Africa. There is so much stories that are being told that outside of what we traditionally see, the hero's journey, the traditional tropes of what that are made. But I think this is a very recent also. I have to add the caveat that this is a very recent like development in terms of how it's opening to the mainstream with Black Panther and all of these different ways. So I think we're going to see more and more and more and more stories from Afrofuturist perspectives being elevated to because those are important. It's just kind of by the fact they're not part of the mainstream is almost as if the collective consciousness is not whole. It's like you need the full collective to add on to the conversation so we can actually know where we're going in the future. And I because I think it's so important for the future and how it's going to be defined. So I think I'm a very optimistic person. So I'm going to turn to optimistic. So I do believe the best is yet to come and we're living in it now. So. Absolutely. Yeah, the claiming and reframing and rethinking about histories for so many people is as much a brand new horizon in the lack of always being taught things, you know, here in the. Well, not to see in the US, but everywhere with respect to the diaspora and many other people. So it's a brand new history for many people in some respects as the future is a new frontier of sorts. And again, that's a colonial phrasing is a new space of claiming and reenvisioning. So we have to reenvision all of these things to kind of understand where we are, sometimes even understand things that have happened in the past. And I have to note that, you know, for breeze is an Asian American doctor in Yango said that she had a pair and is from the Ivory Coast in Africa. And I, you know, my family came to Chicago via the Great Migration, Mississippi and Texas. And so I think it's a pretty synergetic that we have somewhat different backgrounds, although we're all American and all of that lens has led us to Afrofuturism. So I have to ask you each, can you tell us how people can follow you, how they can, you know, continue this conversation around Afrofuturism? And to that, I mean, if you can give them ways to follow you and maybe suggest maybe a few works they could take a look at yours or others. For sure, you can follow me at SamusMusic, S-A-M-M-U-S, music.com. Also, all of my social media handles are SamusMusic, although I have not been on social media at all over the past several months trying to save my brain, but periodically coming on and being inspired and excited by folks like Natasha. But in terms of works to check out, I have an EP that I dropped in 2014. That's like a, what's it called, a concept album about the video game Metroid from which my namesake kind of comes. And so it's told, it's a rap album that's told from the perspective of this intergalactic bounty hunter who's in a cybernetic power suit. So I think that's a good way into my work and then just listen to everything after that. I love how you just kind of threw that in there. And also, just in case, you got a little taste of AveraFutures in my album where it's all biotechnology here. Yeah, no, that's super awesome. Thank you, Dr. Nyong'o for briefs. Can you tell us some of your handles and maybe some other works people can check out, yours or others? Yeah, absolutely. My, I'm on Twitter, so it's my last name, G-U-E-R-R-I-E-R. And in first name, F-B-B-R-I-C-E. And you'll find me on Twitter. I also have a personal site as well. It's FabriceGarry.com. And you'll find all the different works. I host a podcast as well that Fabrice Gary shared. And it's specifically around the future, interviewing different people in my network and community to understand their visions for the future. In Syllable Studios, you'll find the work of the sci-fi, fantasy production house, S-Y-L-L-B-L-E.com. And you can explore that site and some of the works that we're doing. One I'm particularly excited for is the Orion Parade I'm Collective, where writers are actively exploring a world in the year 2400. And in a time of space exploration is more of a space opera. But yeah, it's been absolutely amazing to be here, to talk to you, to wonderful, amazing, like, it's amazing, amazing collaborators and guests here on this show. So I really appreciate being here and having this conversation around that for Futurism. Babe, I'm so grateful, really. I'm just gonna be beaming the whole rest of the week. Now, thank you both. You can follow me at YatashaLomag on Twitter or YatashaLomag.com. And you can go to at Ysoulstar on Instagram, if you like. And check out Utopia Talks each Tuesday at 7 p.m. Central Standard Time. Keep yourself lifted. As for book recommendations, of course I'm gonna tell you how for Futurism, if you want more of a grounding than that, Rayla 2212, Rayla 2213 are some favorites. If you want some sci-fi space odyssey. And there's another cool book I'm kind of cheerleading for called Infanitum. That's an epic Afrofuturist work created by Tim Schilder. It's a graphic novel, just came out last week. And I think if you're looking for an epic graphic novel, it's close to 300 pages, you'll like the story. So those are just a couple of works and just a reminder, oh, Megascope, the imprint, I said it was gonna bring that up. They have some cool graphic novels coming out too. My book, Black Cube will be out next year. So, but there's a gazillion books coming out. And Louisa, one of which is already out, is called After the Rain. It's an adaptation of a media core for a story that John Jennings adapted, which is surrealist in the African and has some elements of horror too. I think you guys will find pretty fascinating many of our Lovecraft country fans. I think you'll find some interesting moments there. So thank you, Dr. Nyango. Thank you for Breeze, for being amazing. Thank you everyone for being here and joining us all. You're super fantastic. We have to give a special thank you, of course, to Future Tents, which provided this great platform and New America's evicting, who has us literally assembled here from our many parts of the world. Dr. Nyango, for Breeze, if you wanna say any quick words before we sign out? We're speechless. We're speechless. Speechless. Fantastic. They have fun traveled in a space of timelessness, meditating on the future visions. So thank you all. We hope you all continue to stay lifted and move forward and check out some of the great themes in that from Future Tents and Dr. Nyango's work and then for Breeze's work and some of the cool things that I've had a chance to participate in. Well, thank you everybody. You're great. You're amazing. And yes, we are signing out. Stay Spacestastic.