 Hi, folks, I'm Mike, and I hope you're well and welcome to Creative Studio Live, our weekly debate show where we discuss everything music and recording related, and we like to think of a topic each week where we have a pro and a cons type of a format for it. And before I stumble over any more words, I think I'll go over to my co-host, Pete Johns. Pete Johns, welcome to the show. And what have you been up to this week? Imagine there's no... Sorry, I was just recording on my... This is my home studio. I record on my iPhone. I'm doing well, Mike. How are you? And yes, you're going to get a copyright strike for me singing Beatles songs. Never a good idea. Straight off the bat. We... I had a great week. We've had some brand new announcements. Apple got up there and people cheered for things that are going to cost lots of money and they're going to change their world at the Worldwide Developer Conference. We've got a new iOS coming. We've got a new iPadOS coming. We've got new... Everything is new. It's... Everything is going great in the world of Studio Live today. What about over at Creative Source? What have you been up to? Well, over at Creative Source, I put out a video this week about EQ. And it got a nice response from people. And what I learned from this, Pete, being a video creator and a person like yourself who is trying to help people along with the task of recording at home is that you can never simplify things enough. I mean, it's really good to get down to the nuts and bolts and the basics of things. And we often forget that the terminology we use and that kind of thing can be confusing for new people coming along. And I think myself and you are on the same boat with this that we don't want to prohibit people from getting into this. We want to enable them to get into it. So I learned a good lesson from making that video because I think the feedback I got taught me that people want to know these things, but they want them in the basic sort of sense to begin with. So absolutely. And it is a fantastic video. I know you don't do your own horn as enough. But if you haven't checked it out and you need to know about EQ, I spent 20 minutes with Mike and then I watched this video. And then it was great. Well, I learned a lot of stuff about EQ that I didn't know about. And I think that's the key, even if you think you know everything, you don't know everything and be a lifelong learner and you'll do all right. But all that being said, I guess we've got a show to do. We've got some topics to talk about. We do. And for people watching, if you haven't watched before, welcome to the show. Do say hi in the comments. We like to include the comments in the show where we can. And we like for people in the comments to score. And what are they scoring? They're scoring a debate between myself and Pete this week about whether you should record your next album at home or in a pro studio. Now, I feel with this question out there a little bit, viewers at all. We had our first little cut out there, Mike. We I lost you for about one minute. So you're going to have to repeat your question. I was asking whether you'd asked any of your regular viewers about this question at all during the week. Oh, no, it cut you off again. I'm going to assume that you said how good am I at playing rugby? And the answer is exceptional. OK, OK. That was exactly the question that I did ask. Funny enough, amazing guess. So moving on. What we're going to talk through watching is we make four points each, except at this moment in time, we do not know which points we're going to be making with a coin to see which one of us will be arguing which side. Now, as I am the home host this week and Pete is the guest host, I will be allowing him to choose. I'm going to flip this Australian 20 cent coin. I had a 50 cents. I'm obviously not as well off as Pete is. I've only got a 20 cents. So I'll just flip that. We're going with that. We're going with that head. Going ahead. And I'm afraid to say, Pete, that it's not showing up on the camera very well. It's a tail. It's a tail. I can see the tail. I can see the platypus. The 20th of the platypus and it's showing his tail. So you are the winner, which means you can choose. I am the winner and I'm going to be arguing. I'm going to argue for the home studio. What a surprise. All right. The studio is all the way. Let's get our wallets out and get cracking. OK, so we're going to be off with point number one. I just want to say hi to a Mimo Japan who's one of my regulars in the comments and Mark Cliff. And Mimo, if you're going to be around, I think you can do the scoring. You can score in whichever way you fancy. And basically, you should make sure I win. No, but you're going to be scoring. And Pete's going to kick off with the first point. Pete, you're going to tell me why I shouldn't record my next album in my home studio and why I should go to the pro studio. Right. So, yes, I'm glad I got this this side because it's so, yes, pro studios are definitely a big part of my channel and I know an awful lot about them. So let's get cracking. So why should you go to a pro studio? Well, the number one reason is that it's a second set of ears. So you know what the biggest problem with us here in our home studios is, Mike? It's we've only got two years. Exactly. You need more years. You need at least four years to get a good set. No, we see in our audio caves, we do our thing, we noodle away, we play, we record, and then we do not share with the world. We get to the end of our song and then we share. We go, here is our masterpiece and people go, vocals are too loud, guitars are too muddy and your bass is not kicking enough. And we go, how dare you? Why did you say that? Whereas, you know what, you go to a pro studio, you're working with an engineer, maybe you've got a producer there, maybe you've got someone else that's working with you that's recording. You can be the talent, you can play your thing and then you get the benefit of that second set of ears. Ears three and four can say to you, your vocals are too loud, we're going to turn you down and you could go, no, my vocals are my children. You cannot turn my vocals down and they will go, we're turning your vocals down. And then you listen to it afterwards, you go, ah, it sounds much, much better because I listened to the professional in the professional studio. So that is my point. Number one, second set of ears never goes astray. It was a fairly obvious point. I just want to point out to anybody, to people scoring, but well made, well made for a man who is not normally arguing this kind of side of things. You know, I'll discuss, I've got a counterpoint for that a little later, but the first of my ears is really about budget and this is where things have changed enormously, especially over the last even five or six years, but even 10 to 15 years, it's changed enormously. You can really get an awful lot of really good, high quality gear now and you can produce, look, for some ears, the same results. I know there's always some people that can hear, you know, hey, you know, the album's no good because it hasn't got an LA2A compressor on it or anything. But for mere mortals and mere mortals listen to most of your music, the quality is simply amazing these days. Now, here's the thing, for what you will spend, if I encourage people to call their local Pro Studios tomorrow, find out how much it would realistically cost and I bet you it's gonna cost somewhere near what you would spend on the equipment you need to make an album at home. Now, especially if you're using GarageBand, I hasten to add. So, but you know, I'm not talking about the unnecessary, I'm not talking about the unnecessary gear, I mean, you know, surface controllers and things like that, they don't add to the sound, they're nice things to have but I'm just talking about the necessary gear. So maybe a decent mic, a decent audio interface and using some decent software. And not only that, but you also have that available for your second and your third and your fourth album as well. So that's my number one point. That's a pretty good number one, but we know that the big things are in the number twos, right? So I wouldn't jump into the number twos. That's terrible. No one's scoring here. So I've got minus 200 points here. You're going to dock me for that one. Not even your usual DuBlon Tondras or creepy old man jokes, it's just going straight to two jokes. So I'm really glad you mentioned money because money is definitely important here. And you might think that I'm going to go off on a weird tangent here and try and justify why you should spend hundreds of dollars on a recording studio and a professional studio. And I am because you know what? When you are paying to do something, it has been a hundred percent proven that it actually makes you do things better. The difference between getting things for free and then being able to use them versus having to pay. As soon as you have that monetary value associated with something, you can step up your gain. You actually take things more seriously. So if you're actually paying to $50 an hour to record an album and you've got an eight hours in the studio and you're paying $400, I have no idea if that's what it costs. But let's just say that that's a real thing. Then you've got to put that money aside. So you're going to be rehearsing. And what you're saying here then is if I pay for sex, the sex is going to be better. After I said that you're going to throw in the creepy old man comment and then you just make sure that everyone knows. But I'm going to move past that. I'm going to be classier than that. I'm going to say that, yes, if you're paying $50 an hour for anything, then yes, you're going to want to be rehearsed. You're going to, it's going to go badly. You're going to want to practice at home beforehand to make sure that when you get there, you're not going to suffer from any sort of performance anxiety and you're going to be able to deliver on the first or second attempt. This is all going really down here, but let's bring it back to the recording. I'm loving the point. I'm going to give you $500 for that. My best point ever. No, but my point is that home studio, you sit around noodling around forever. The reason that you want to go to a home studio is if you want to finish your track, then you need the pressure of going, we had this time, prepare your track, go and record. OK, so what you're saying is you finish quicker if you pay for it. Yeah, all right, I get you. 100%. OK, so it almost is accounted to that. I'd like to talk about the space you're in. And what I'm talking about is your home environment, your home space is where you're going to be yourself more than anything. And I think one of the arts, one of the parts of the art of music is revealing yourself. You know, I think the best artists actually reveal themselves and make themselves sort of vulnerable. And I think that you're more likely in your own space to reveal yourself emotionally and that's where I think you'll actually do. Whereas if you're out in a kind of, I won't call it a pro studio, a public place, but a more formal environment. There's always that kind of the engineer who I probably only met yesterday is the guy watching me. And I don't know if I'm going to really let go. All right, OK, so, so, you know, I'm not talking about. You know, the awesome experience that real top bands have the sense that, you know, that they have amazing. Obviously, an art of a producer is to make the artist feel comfortable and relax. I understand that. We're not talking about that. Most of us, if we're going to pay, are going to go to our, you know, local studio in Milton Keynes or something in England. And we're not going to get a top notch producer. OK, but anyway, I digress at home. You are comfortable. You're in your own space and you will perform better. It's similar to your last point about performance. You always perform better at home. Oh, wow. Would you believe we're at the halfway mark on that note? We're it's it's half time. So let's say hello to the folks here that are here on your live chat, because I'm just going to take over your show here, Mike, because clearly you can't be trusted to stop talking about inappropriate things. So, yes, thank you to what we've got. Recording Studio 9 here. We've got Vachi here. We've got Jaydestar here. We've got Priscilla's Joy in the Stream, Oscar Alien, which is our buddy Glenn and Mark Clift from the GarageBand group. So I've got some support here. So I want I want you to be cheering me on home in these in these final two points each. Are you ready for me to lay on point number three here, Mike? Yes, go on late and lay point number three for me, Pete. I said lay, didn't I? Which side are you arguing for again? I completely forgot. I'm going to record all of this and put this out. You know, the truth about John's GarageBand at all. You should just go to the pros. Yeah, I know I'm worried. I am actually genuinely worried because sometimes like we get to the end and we're like, oh, here's what we really think. And some people are going to join us halfway through the stream and go, oh, Pete has sold out. What's going on here? Unsubscribe. So, yes, if you're thinking that watch to the end, we'll do that YouTube thing. Watch to the end and we'll reveal a great surprise. We won't, but watch to the end anyway. So I noticed there, Mike, that you have you've got some acoustic treatment behind you, don't you? That's that's looking pretty snazzy back there. Oh, I don't like to use the term acoustic treatment. It makes it sort of too snazzy. It's in foam tiles. That's another topic for another debate. Yeah, do you need the wankery? I mean, do you need the acoustic treatment? So, yeah, some people have the acoustic treatment. Some maybe have some base traps in the corner. Some might have some separation going on. They've got a few things in there in their home. But I don't know if you've if you've seen my home studio here, Mike, but there's there's a treadmill behind that. I'm sorry to like destroy the illusion here. But this is also my gym and my workout room over there. There's a bunch of storage cartons. And what you can't see over there is my washing that is hasn't been put away yet. So what I'm saying is that we don't have a custom environment. Most of us don't have one room that is just a studio. And if you want the most optimal room sound, where would you go? Well, you go to a studio that is being tested and treated and up absolutely to the nth degree. It's been worked out as to this is where the optimal sounds are. This is where we get zero reflections. This is where we get 100 percent isolation. Here's a vocal booth where we can capture that sound that you really want to go for. So yes, definitely when I start laughing halfway through a point, you can tell I don't believe in it. Definitely go and spend all the money and go and record in a real recording studio. Go and do it right now. You know you want to. Done. OK, you ruined at the end there. Look, you're doing your best here, Pete. And I just want to go to some of the comments in the chat here. We've got Jade Starr in there who says, and we've had Jade. Is this a follower of yours, Jade Starr? Oh, yes, Jade Starr, fantastic musician, excellent person and all round music guru. Well, thanks for joining us, Jade. They say, then once you create a home studio, it doesn't matter how much you spend on your studio. Oh, sorry, I'm missing the first part of that. Personally, I think it's best to go into a studio and record a demo to actually have that experience of high end gear and engineer. Ask questions, pay attention. You can't beat the actual experience. And I think that's sort of repeating what Vachi from Recording Studio 9.com was saying earlier about experience. And so there's a lot of people lagging on your side here, Pete. They're trying to help you out. You're failing miserably. I'm not helping myself, but they're helping me, which is always awesome. Priscilla says, first album I recorded at a pro studio and struggled with the fact that I could not repeat takes. Now I do that at home, take a break and re-approach recording days later. For me, it's the way. And that's a pretty good point to make. I think that's what a lot of people like about recording at home. And then Oster Allen says, you walk into a studio there with stuff ready to go and our producer will press the button and trick it up with techniques you wouldn't know how to do as a musician. And I think those are all very valid points. Now, moving on to my third. You've really reinforced my argument here. I know. The viewers have done better than I have. We need to invite them on to debate you next time. I'm trying to, I think we should, yeah. Because they're doing a lot better than you are. I'm going to say, anyway, look, the gear is good enough. This is one, there's a lot of myth perpetuated by recording engineers and the like. And I've talked about this with mastering engineers at all. It's in their interest to have you believe that they've got some magic source that you don't have. Some creative source? I know you were going to say that. Go on. The source is the title of your channel. Look, your gear is good enough. Don't go on gear slots and have people tell you you need many amps and all that. Blowny, your gear is fine. The pros want you to believe that you need to have better gear and it's just not true. I'll tell you what the essence that you really need to have for a successful recording. That's a good song. It all starts with a good song. It's hard to ruin a good song with really. I mean, you can with band production. I'm not saying you can't, but a good song. I've been listening to a fair amount of, I was listening to a Beatles album today for some reason. I haven't listened to them for a while. I think it's, oh my God, am I going to get the name wrong? Rubbersoul. One of their great albums. And I've got to say, I'm going to upset a lot of people here. I don't think the production was that great. One of the great songs that I love by them is Norwegian Wood. I was predicting Norwegian Wood. Don't sing it. We're going to get another copyright strike. I've already sung a Beatles song today. But I'll tell you what, I've got to say, I didn't like the production on it at all. But the song is so good. Even that production can not ruin it for me. So don't get so obsessed with the gear and the tweaking of knobs and things, you know, make it about the music. That's my third point. It's a conspiracy. That's a good third point. And yeah, you managed to say tweaking your knobs without actually even grinning. So well done. You guys tweaking your knobs? You know what? You just tweaking your knobs. Yeah, OK. I've got five points here. So I'm going to have to pick a fourth, because we're only going four points tonight to keep up. I've got to say, those LA2As, they've got very, very big knobs. They're big and hard and round. Anyway, so here's the thing. When you're at home, you've only got your own gear to play with. But the good thing about going to a recording studio is that you can suddenly play with someone else's gear. So it's going way downhill. I didn't anticipate this, Karen. Yes, my point being, when you're starting out, especially, you don't know what you don't know, right? So you're going to go out and buy some gear and you might just go completely blind going, I need a large diaphragm condenser microphone. And then you work out that your voice is not suit a large diaphragm condenser microphone. You're better off blasting it out into a friggin' Shure SM58, a dynamic microphone. So the beauty part of going to a recording studio is that you can say, hey, Mr. Recording Studio Man, that I'm paying $100 an hour. I've upped it. The rates have gone up by $50, $100 an hour for. Then can you show me your mic locker? Because that's what people in recording studios have. I've been told on authority they have lockers full of mics. I don't know what that means, but it sounds impressive. So you go to their mic locker and you're like, let me try your U47. And then you try that. And then you go, that's a $10,000 mic. I'll never afford it. And then you go home and cry. But no, you actually can try out all these different things, all this great gear. You can turn your knobs. You can tweak your dials. And you can, I'm not doing well at all, am I? Was that minus 1,000? I should have argued on your side. I had way better points than you. My points seemed so good half an hour ago when I wrote them. If I'd happened to have had to argue on your side, I'm like, I'm beating you. Hands down. All the people that are tuning in going, oh, I hope one of these guys really kicks it home and says, recording studios for the win. And they're just like, oh, we're back to loser. What's going on? I've got to say off camera, I'm crying a little bit. I've got to be in the cold. But Jay just made a comment. I've worked out this weekly show as just a front for an episode of Benny Hill. It is true. We need to get the sound effects of the music in, except then Mike would get another copyright strike from the Benny Hill estate. Assuming he's dead. He is dead, yeah. Yeah, sorry. Very unpolitically correct, wasn't he? Darren Bryan has made a comment. A few years ago, Montgomery Gentry wrote and produced a song in one of their home studios and had it released later that day. Yeah, that's something. I could use that as my final point, but I just didn't mention it. So, yeah, it's also, I think on my point, how you can't really ruin a good song with bad production, but Priscilla made a comment. I kind of ruined them sometimes by overproducing them. So, anyway, I am on my last point. Freakin' home strong. Do better than I do. Here we go. And now, there's really no Dublon tenders involved here. Any that you hear are only in your own mind. Viewers and people like... You can do it when inspiration strikes. Yes. You can. In the privacy of your own home. In your own home. You can do it when inspiration strikes. You won't have to perform. I'm just reading my actual notes here. Oh, my God. You won't have to perform a book time. Yes. Now, it's just a slight argument for the pro side, but I'll say this was one of the advantages that some of the big bands had in pro studios. And Jade, in the comments, please stop. OK, so, now, this is a good point in this. One of the advantages they had was, I was watching an interesting documentary the other day about Capitol Studios, one of the top people in that par with sort of Abbey Road and what have you. Yep. And they were saying about when Green Day recorded in there, which was one of the last sort of big-budget albums they had in there. Yep. They went and recorded, I think, American Idiot in there. And they were in that studio. It's an amazing studio for, I think, five or seven months. It was locked out, right? Mm-hmm. And I thought, I reckon I could produce American Idiot in seven months. Sure. No, I didn't think that. I may be arrogant, but not. But that was, and I think the Beatles spent an awful lot of time in Abbey Road. And it wasn't like they booked for a week to record an album. They had the luxury of time. So they were able to get relaxed in that environment and spend a lot of time there. I know I appear to be arguing for the pro studios, but it's very likely that mere mortals cannot afford that kind of time in a studio. But we can have that amount of time at home. So you can spend seven months recording at home your album, just like Green Day did. If you go and book out even your local studio for the next seven months, then you'd better make sure you've already had a successful album before. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to pay that because we're close to the point where we get to actually talk about what we really think. Is that right, Mike? Not that I have already done all of that. And now I just want to explain again, if it does need explaining, that myself and Pete do take some slightly sort of false positions sometimes. We are having a debate, and we have to choose inside each. So often, life exists in the gray areas. And so at this stage, we tend to reveal our true opinion, having done our best to fight our side. And I won, by the way, on points. Oh, you crushed me. Again, if it was the viewers, they would have beaten you. But because they relied on me, they lost. Sorry, guys. Because they positions, yeah. Thanks, Joe. So what position do you prefer? My preferred position, Mike, is that I, yes, I like to go both ways, is my preferred position in all things. Oh, yes, having recorded in Pro Studio, very rarely, like not very long time. And even the Pro Studios I record in weren't particularly Pro. Yeah, I think there's benefits to both. So all the points that I made were kind of based on reality, which is that I do think you need some time pressure. I do think you need some cost pressure. I do think that too many people in home studios spend a year noodling on a single song when they should actually be finishing songs, getting them out there and working on their next song. So that is a good reason to book in some time. And you can kind of do this. The way I look at it is do all the things you do in a Pro Studio but do it in your home studio. So have a time goal. Say I'm going to release a single by the end of June and then record it, mix it, master it and release it. But yeah, the other points I made around having a second set of ears. But again, there's ways around that as well. You can do that by getting a buddy to listen to your mix and giving you some feedback, getting it mixed by a mixing engineer, getting it mastered by a separate mastering engineer. So there are ways to do all the things that I said there. But yeah, there is some experience. There's some merit behind getting some experience and from someone else. And I've always said that it need to be a lifelong learner and I want to be a lifelong learner in the world of music. So I'm never going to say, my studio is all I will ever do and I'll never listen to anyone else or never go anywhere else because that's locking yourself down. So that is my views. What say you, Mike? Yes, I have a very hybrid position on this. I think it's, we do, I say many, many times that we live in wonderful times where we can do the most amazing things I wouldn't have imagined when I was a youngster, first recording and we're very, very blessed. But I think there's also a really interesting thing that exists now where I would suggest to people if you've got some budget that do a lot of it at home, whatever you feel competent in, you know, then certainly do that. If you feel competent to do it all at home, then sure, do it all at home. I think, as I said, the songs speak to themselves. But I think that it doesn't need to be too expensive to perhaps record a lot of it at home and then take it for a mixing studio or even you were mentioning about the microphones in your point, so it was a decent point. Or maybe just track some vocals and things like that in a studio. So there's lots of halfway positions which are quite valid. And I think that one of the biggest problems or the biggest problem for me in the home studio is isolation, you know, not just physical isolation, but isolation from other people's ideas. Watched a wonderful movie that came out a few years ago now called Sound City. I don't know if you've ever caught that one movie. And one of the takeaways I got from that was from, I think it was Mick Fleetwood said, it's awesome. You can actually do everything by yourself now and you can produce everything to a very high quality completely by yourself. And he said, but you'll have much more fun if you do it with other people. And that's not another do-but-on time. But, you know, and I think that there's lots and lots of validity in that. So I think working with other people at any level, whether it's just on the final part of it or even sometimes, you know, during the recording process is not always going to be a good thing. Sometimes too many years, too many cooks can spoil the broth, all that stuff. But yeah, it's usually works well, collaborating. So I encourage collaboration. However, I want to make another point on the phone. Because I've noticed as I feel at this question that some people seem to forget that we are home studio enthusiasts. Meaning that we're not all trying to make the next number one album, you know, get on the biggest playlist on Spotify or what have you. Just do this for pleasure. Most songs might reach 100 or 200 people, our Facebook friends list, whatever that is, right? And this, I think that's a very, very, very valid way to make music. And that means that there often won't be any kind of budget involved at all. So look, if you just want to produce music and send it out to a few friends and I think that's a part of the reason why our channels respectively exist. For what I view to be the majority of people who are doing this for their own pure pleasure, then I say, yeah, in this case, you may not need to go to a pro studio. If you can afford it, then do it, it's fun. Absolutely, I agree. And if I were arguing the home studio pointer, one of my points was that, yes, most of us, and I will say most of us are weekend warriors, we are part-time peeps, if you want to use that term. We don't have the time, we don't have the money, we want to find a way to do this stuff with what we have, with where we are, and we can actually just get stuff done. So yes, I agree, and the folks that are here live are contributing to the same sort of thing and some amazing things as well, to just point this out that, yeah, whatever you want to do, and I think that's your point, and you don't often make good points, but this was a good one, that yes, the end goal has to be actually thought about because like you say, not everyone. Some people are doing this just by themselves. Some people are doing it just to share their art with other people, and some people do want to be the next big thing. So, yeah, think about the end in mind. And I've got one more point, and then I'll actually let you finish the show. But I watched the masterclass with Tom Morello, one of my favorite guitarists, Raging It's a Machine, Audio Slave, Profits of Rage, all of the great bands, excellent electric guitar player, and he made a great point, which is more related to playing in bands as opposed to the sort of collaboration, but he said that the reason you should get out sometimes if you come to the zone of just you by yourself and recording is that, yeah, when he's with Raging It's a Machine, it's like one plus one plus one plus one equals like 472. So there's some of the parts and having collaboration and doing things with other people, you're doing a whole lot more than you will ever do by yourself, or even that all four people will do individually. And this show is a testament to that, Mike, because you and I together are quite sensible. As soon as we get together, it's all just like poo and double on time. It's true, it's true. We had the help of Jade this week, enormously. Look, it's been a good show actually. I don't think we've come to any hard conclusions as to the actual question, but these shows are always to encourage thought for the people watching, not for us to give any final answer whatsoever. I do wanna thank, a big, big thank you to the people in the chat this week. It's been quite active and fun as well. And some final points to finish off with Pete. Vati from Recording Studio and I has made another comment. He's made lots of contributions this week. So thanks for that, Vati. He said when he started, he was in his home studio, then he went into a pro studio and it blew his mind what was possible. So now he has the experience he can bring it into his current pro home studio. I think he's what he's talking about there is to be inspired by what people of individuals have achieved through years of experience. There's lots of validity there. Jade, in one of the more sensible points that Jade has made tonight. One of my albums back in 2007, I went to a studio with our drummer to record all of the drums 12 songs, then spent the next seven months doing the rest at home on logic. And that's the kind of hybrid approach that I think is really, really valid as well. Primo Japan, Himeera Japan. The whole question depends on how much, on the individual, is it a musician or a technical engineer type? I'd say musicians with technical skills could grab knowledge from pro studios and then adapt them at home. It's true. There are different types of people. I've got some very, very talented musician friends. You know, you acquire them over the years and put them in front of a computer and they're like, oh yeah. Yeah, it's just not their bag. So it does depend on the type of person. And I think that that's all of the comments that I have time to read out, but thanks again to the people in the comments. It's been fun this week and we hope to see you next week. It will be on Pete's channel next week, which is why we always ask you to look in the description to pick up the link to Pete's channel and subscribe there if you're not subscribed so that you get notified about the next show. Have you got any ideas about topic, Pete, for next week? Oh, we have been throwing around some ideas, but we haven't really landed on one. Yeah, this one was a good one, but yeah, I'd love to talk more about the, yeah, that the whole intent of music or something along the lines of, yeah, that the amateur versus professional kind of vibe, but I haven't landed on it yet. So please leave a comment. If you're watching on the replay especially, if you're not here live, drop in the comments and say, Pete, we should be talking about this because I will then be able to completely butcher it while Mike makes fun of me and makes jokes about the content. So no, we'll decide on that during the week and keep an eye out and we'll let you know closer to the back. That was Pete's very long way of saying, please suggest a comment for next week. That was really bad, wasn't it? I think we're done. Thank you very much, guys. The show is now ending. We will see you next Thursday at the same time and thank you for watching.