 Thank you for tuning in to the Straight Talk from Art show, and I'm so proud today. I feel so excited and happy. So before we talk with our guests and my co-hosts, I just want to let the audience know that we have our Arts So Wonderful programs since 2003. We have our Art Gallery in the University of Iowa, all high-incredible. It's called Arts So Wonderful Gallery and Performances. We've got a big stage. It's like 8,000 square feet, you know. So, oh, God, we about to do some incredible stuff there. So I want everybody to come there and don't call us nothing to come. Come around and check out all the different type of media of art from Vermonters, all the art nets from Vermont all across the state. And it's like, you know, I sit in there and I look at that art every day. I'm like, wow, how did they think of that? How could they, you know, when it's fire them to do that. And so it's incredible. So come in and bring your kids and just, you know, it's Wednesday through Saturday, 11 to 5. And you know, hopefully I see, if you see me, say you saw me on Congresswoman and I'll give you something. So, all right, so, man, here we go, here we go, here we go. So here we go, Congresswoman Becca Ballin. Thank you for being our guests on the Straight Talk of Vermont show, you know. We have some incredible, I think our last guest on our show was Keisha, Keisha Randall. Oh, yeah, Keisha. Yeah, we had a lot of people on our show, you know, that, you know, like kind of like do some of the work you do. We have like Catamount Dancers and all kinds of things. But, man, it's so honored because I, you know, I've seen different type of ways through all the years. I've been in Vermont since 89. You and I have always kind of worked on some same type of platforms. You know, because we were for the people who we serve for real. Boost on the ground for real, for real, for real, you know what I'm saying? And that's you. That's how I know you from, you know, so happy and excited. Bruce, we have known each other for years, so please call me Becca. I appreciate that you called me Congresswoman. I am a Congresswoman, but please call me Becca. Becca, Becca, well, you know, my Human Rights Commissioner, right? Yes, I do. And I want to talk to you about that. Our new executive director of Big, say, Bruce, you know, you know, so we're going to be hanging out on September 25th. I don't know. Waterfront Park is a big event down there. Yeah. So you watch it. Okay. So there's my co-host, Gina. Oh, check it. This young lady, I'm sorry, but I'm going to call you on measurements from our programs for years ago. Come on. You tell the story. Let's quickly. Yeah. So my name is Gina Ossoff. I'm the lead organizer with the Free Hair Campaign. I actually ran into you at the Fourth of July time. Oh, you remember. Oh, that's amazing. I remember you were talking to me about mass incarceration. Yes. Okay. I'm so glad you remember. Well, I've actually been a participant in Bruce's services since I was like probably 14, maybe even younger. So it feels like a very full circle moment to be here with him today talking to you. So. Well, another part of it too is like, when we talk about a little bit, the work you do, and like I said, yeah, every time I see people like you did to my program, I say, yeah, you got that part of that for me because, you know, helping people in the community based on, you know, this serving, serving, doing community serving. And that's, you know, I don't know if you, I think, yeah, I can figure that you was going to do this type of work. So what you asked are, I got to call you congresswoman. Okay, Becker. Okay, whatever it comes from for you, Bruce. Yeah, I know. So we have some questions for you with time running out. I don't know if we'll be able to hit them all, but I just want to say you have an incredible platform ranging from LGBTQIA rights to housing, addressing the opioid crisis, like great things. As you know, Bruce does a lot of diversity, equity, inclusion, and I do stuff around incarceration. So maybe jumping right to it. What kind of work do you have right now that's focused on those areas like diversity, equity, and inclusion or helping incarcerated folks? Yeah, I really appreciate it. It is, it's when I think about the through line of my work, both as a teacher and then as a legislator, it has always been about trying to relieve suffering. So how do you make life better for people? And we do know that when we improve the lives of people through higher wages, through better housing, through better environment, through better education, you are dramatically improving the chances that people can have a healthy, fulfilling life and have done certainly work here in Vermont around the way people did work on the fair and impartial policing committee for a long time around traffic stops. And I don't know if you saw, it's very timely, I don't know if you saw the news that came out this week of Connecticut and the Connecticut State Police had been falsifying records of their traffic stops and skewing the data so it looked like they were pulling over more white drivers than people of color. And so my point in bringing it up is there's still so much work to be done at the local, the state and the federal level on the justice system. I've done work on issues related to qualified immunity. I know that these issues are also resonant at the federal level. But I want to be really clear with you about this moment that we're in right now that we have an entire conference within the Congress, the Republican conference that is not grounded in fact or reality and is not thinking about regular people on the ground. So the fight that I have to do day in and day out in committee is actually about trying to pull them out of upside downland. And I have to go toe to toe with people in committee on LGBTQ rights. They are trying to drag us back to the 1950s around how people of color are treated in this country, the way LGBTQ people are treated in this country and the way the poor are treated. And so it is, unfortunately, I feel like at this moment we're in this holding pattern because as Democrats we're in the minority in the House, it's very difficult to move. Sorry, I'm getting a feedback. She's getting feedback. So I'll try again. I will try to do it despite the feedback, which is that we have to continue to push to move progressive legislation. That is always has to be the North Star for us. And we also, unfortunately, at the very same time we've got to fight the battles in real time in these committees because the world that I live in, the world that I want to see for this country long term is not necessarily the world that some of my political opponents want to recreate. And it's terrifying, honestly. So, Becca, so myself, I'm still on Vermont State Police, Fair and Partial Police in the community for years. And also, I was on the committee to help data collection and common alliance. And so Stephanie Saguino, she did all the measurements for us, right? And so what I'm going to say, and I'm still sad, I don't know if it's changed any, but Vermont State Police stopped 85% of African-Americans. And can you imagine that? 85% of African-Americans have stopped by state police. Guess what? 85% of African-Americans or black or people covered are stopped by Burlington Police. Come on, man. I mean, it's only, I don't know. What's our measurements here? 0.3%. I don't know. And then we did stop 85%. Wow, Becca. What's up? Yeah. I mean, it's the thing where explicit and implicit bias are real. And when I say I'm trying to bring people back from upside down land, I serve with people who do not believe racism is real. I serve with people who believe that the queer and trans community are trying to corrupt our children and literally destroy the democracy from within. And so, unfortunately, as you and I both know, you can work on these issues for years and you can feel like you're not having any impact. But we have to continue to do the work and demand better, demand better of our data collection and demand better of our analysis of that data. And honestly, what we're trying to do, Bruce, and I know your guest is doing the same thing, we're trying to change culture. And trying to change culture is a very difficult task and we always have to be taking the long view. So you have to do the day-to-day struggle in real time and you have to be planning a flag for the future where we're trying to get to. And I would just love one of the things that I wanted to ask you both because it's something I think about a lot. How do you keep your hope? You're both hopeful people, you're both joyful people. How do you keep your hope and joy alive when it feels like we're backsliding? Tough. Is it a tough one? Honestly, for me, I get a lot of strength from our community even though the greater society may have some of these backwards views you're talking about. Burlington and pockets around Vermont have always been hubs of radical thinking, radical action, radical thought. So just having so many people back, free her and the ideas of prison abolition gives me hope. And especially, I'm sure you have a lot of work with youth, just the way they think. They think we're all so nuts, you know, like they're like, how do you guys not buy into all these ideas? It should be clear that this is logical and the right way for society to go. So honestly, the community gives me a lot of hope. Yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned the youth. That is, my team in DC knows that if I'm feeling a little bit depressed or anxious, they know what they need to do is give me a time when I get to listen to and talk to youth. And they just think, oh, we got to bring some students in, whether it's high school students, middle school students, college students, that it always gives me more hope to hear what they're thinking about and what they see in the work that I'm doing and what they'd like to see me doing. And I always leave those meetings much more joyful and hopeful. You know, I remember like Roxanne and Peter and I was like, yeah, I'm the pipe for youth, you know what I mean? Because we always, you know, work with youth who have youth advisory boards and blah, blah, blah. And I'll tell you what, I love those youth. You know what you see? Just sit around and listen to them and how they talk. They are so intelligent and smart, you know. You know, just like you and yours in our groups. I don't know if you know this, but I'm the one who open all those youths in every large mall in the state. Chill out centers in Los Angeles, down in Fairhaven, you know, those living rooms. That was me out with those stuff. For free, for youth and families, you know, and our measurements were like real, really good, you know, because if they're in our place, that costs them absolutely nothing. Guess what? They're not doing drugs, alcohol, tobacco. They're in a safe place. We're having a healthy outlet, you know what I mean? And so we know that if it's there for an hour, we know that, you know what I'm saying? That measure right there, you can't even measure that, you know what I'm saying? And so that's why I open those places. Plus, my youth advisory board said, we need to open something. But, man, you know, I'm just so excited, you know. You can talk about youth, man. That's my thing, you know. Look at you, look at you. She's crazy. You're out of college and everything, you know. She was like, well, 14 or something in my group. Fourteen. Now she's graduated out of college and she's back working with, you know, we're working together on stuff. You know, isn't that awesome? Yeah, it is awesome. And a question that I have for both of you, when you think about, like when you look at a six months or a year out for the goals that you have for yourself and as you said, you know, so beautifully, it's all about community. It's all about creating an environment and getting, you know, hope and ideas from the people around you. I'm just wondering what, you know, what do you hope to see in the next six months for a year within your own lives? Because I think that always helps me to get inspiration from other people, what they're trying to get done. That's a tough one for me. Let's give me a, do you answer that already? So, you answer that question already? I actually have more thoughts on this one. Well, go ahead because I'm going to think about it a little bit because Peter Covell asked me the same, he said, but you do so much for everybody. What about you, you know? And so, I'm still trying to answer that question. He's right. You got to do self-care or you can't, you can't continue the fight. He's, Peter Covell is absolutely right. My goals are community centered. I don't know if this is what you're looking for. Yeah, yeah, okay. Tell me about it. Coming up in January, I'm not sure if you know, but there are plans to build a woman's prison and I personally think that would be detrimental for our communities, especially following the flooding and the fact that we have a very high unhoused population. I think we'll just be speeding up that pipeline into prisons. So personally for myself, I would like to see the prison construction pause and see the state invest in alternatives to incarceration. Like for example, I think the longest inpatient treatment center we have available is Brattleboro Retreat and folks can only stay for two weeks when they have substance use disorders. And to me that isn't really addressing the problem. We also have like Sotaria House, Alissum. Those are emergency services that keep people from being institutionalized. We don't have enough of those. So I would just like to see Vermont go on this path of alternatives in decarceration personally. I think there's so much we can do with elder parole, ending cash bail, second chance legislation, a lot of amazing things that I would like to see for our community. And I'm so glad you mentioned the piece about mental health. We know that many incarcerated people, not just in Vermont, but across the country have co-occurring mental health and substance use disorder issues. And so we do need to be thinking more holistically about it. And we've done some good work. There's always more to do, but I'm glad you mentioned Sotaria. I've always been so impressed with the work that they do there and we need more places like that. 100% agree. How about you, Bruce? Well, man, straight talk for my program. I'm the founder of that program. I went to all the jails in the state, you know. And so it's a kind of program, like who are thinking errors and patterns in conflict resolution exercises. And we're in drug and alcohol. And then those who, you know, seem to be, you're going to stand and say, thinking errors and patterns. Well, I'm going to refer to them like Distance House and Mandela House. And they ask me, Bruce, who in your group you think can come, you know, because there's one handsome reference. And I'll say it honestly. And I tell those people in the group that if they just identify they're thinking errors, they put them at risk, you know. And just learn new interventions. Don't react to the, you know, situation. Just kind of think about it for them. Did you be all right, you know what I'm saying? I say it's hard sometimes, but once you start, you'll be, you'll continue. It hits your automatic system management. And so we had some very successful, that program started in 2003. And the last before the COVID we did at Marvel Valley. I was a facility that had girls, some interns from UVM helped me at CRCF. But so I guess what I'm trying to say is that, wow, everything you say, you know what I'm saying? And they just, like reentry program, I'm not for one, I'm sorry, but every time I think of someone, I've been a part of it. Like the reentry program that we created years ago, a job and a place to live, right? That was the name of it, you know. And then everything was working good. We was in a jail who was, people was doing interactive meeting with the community on the TVs that they was told to work with, you know. And then when they get into the community, if they, well, first of all, if they want to do this program, then they'll get like three months out early, you know what I'm saying? So if they did the reentry program. And then everything was working good. We didn't kind of, you know, in some things situations, you know, how original was happening in the community with people who was in those apartments, but they dropped all the apartments. When they did that, people was behind on, you know, our only minimum. And it just, they dropped their apartments. That's, that was, you know, I could understand the logistics about it, but damn, it messed up the whole program with a job and a place to live, you know. But anyways, so, so, you know, those people, all they need is information about how they can get better. When I was going to facilitate the Straight Talk Remark program in those jails, they would have like all the brochures in the lobby, right, the 211 and all these, all these, all these things in the lobby. And I'm thinking, so when I come in, I grab all, you know, a lot of those things and bring it to them. How in the world are they going to see those things in the lobby, man? You know, so, you know, and I always say to them, listen, just write these providers, this is a job to talk with you. So one day, if you don't know the day you get out of jail, one day, I'll be getting out of jail and then, and I'm gonna need some housing. And then, and they will start doing that, you know what I mean, start writing them because they get the stamps, they get the free stamps and the letters. And so, people will refund back to them, saying that, well, I penciled you in, you know, let's stay in touch with each other. So that was really good, you know, but how was they ever going to get those brochures and help themselves? I said, you got to help yourself in the lobby, man. So, some of the things like, what you said, go ahead, what else you got to say about your program? Because- No, it's okay, I just have the questions you can- Go ahead, go ahead. Okay. So one thing, Bruce, I want to make sure that we, you know, that I make explicit because I think you're absolutely right that the housing crisis in Vermont is impacting everybody, but it's impacting the most vulnerable the most, right? So, because of lack of housing, because rents are so high, and of course, you know, I was just talking with some folks from Barrie this morning, they lost 10% of their housing in Barrie in that flooding event in July. And so, when you have people who are incarcerated and you're trying to, you know, give them an opportunity to do a restart and there is an access to a safe affordable housing for them. It's very difficult to get yourself back on your feet. How can you expect somebody to carry the weight of having a job and showing up every day for that job when they have no place to be at night, when they don't have safe and affordable housing? So it's all intertwined. So the work of, you know, making life better for people does start with those basics of food and housing. And it also has to include mental health supports and job training. That's the other thing that I know, you know, so many programs over the years have fallen by the wayside in terms of getting people additional training when they're incarcerated. That should be absolutely required for, you know, every site of incarceration that people have an opportunity to get job training and skills so that they are in a position to be the captains of their own lives when they've served their time. So, you know, we'll have maybe one or two questions, but in really short ones. So, how I feel to be out there, you know, in Congress sitting out there and your desk and, you know, you got these staff, you see all your constituents, you know, all the other Congress people, you know, senators, you know, they all walk past each other and then they're like, you know, I know I admire you because, you know, I'm number one because you're from Vermont, right? You know, and then plus you're smart and you're our Congresswoman, our lone Congressperson. So, how do you feel? You know, every day, honestly, Bruce, every day I have to pinch myself. I walk close enough to the Capitol that I can walk every day and I either walk by the Supreme Court, depending on which way I go in my neighborhood or I walk by the Library of Congress and I come around the corner and I see the Capitol. And honestly, it really takes my breath away every time because as a child of an immigrant, you know, working class mom, being a queer American, I never imagined that I could be there. So, I don't ever want to lose that. So, there are moments when, honestly, my friends and I will talk about it. We'll be sitting in caucus and we're like, oh my God, AOC is sitting right in front of us or here comes Ayanna Presley or, you know, or like I got to work with Jamie Raskin in oversight the first time that I got to have a face-to-face conversation with him about the democracy. I mean, I can't even tell you how that feels. It feels like I have been given this incredible opportunity and gift and responsibility and I just want to get it right. I just want to get it right. Well, you know, we want to help you in any ways you think we can. You know, don't call me up any time and text me, email me. Let me know because like I'm boots on the ground like you. I mean, I'll see what's going on. So, one last question. Go ahead. Something quick. Something quick, okay. I feel like it would be not right if we didn't talk about this, especially with me being a queer woman. I would just like to know how does it inform your politics, being the first openly gay woman elected to Congress from Vermont? Yeah, I really appreciate the question. I think about this a lot. You know, when I was in high school, I had absolutely no role models for queer women in office and I have often said the only gay out politician I knew was a man named Harvey Milk and he was a city supervisor in San Francisco and he was assassinated and that young person that I was knew I wanted to be in public service, but I didn't see a path. And so I have said repeatedly to my team is that, you know, one of the jobs that we have to do is make it easier for people coming up behind me so that I can help make it easier for queer people and trans people and people of color and people from the rural pockets of Vermont who never imagined that they could serve. That is a responsibility that I take really seriously. The other thing that I would say, and again, I'm getting that feedback again, so if somebody over there can figure out why, that would be great. But I had this amazing, amazing dinner with the vice president and she invited a core group of us from the caucus and I got to sit next to and with some of the people I respect and admire so much in my caucus. So sitting right next to me with Summer Lee down the table was Greg Casar, Robert Garcia was two seats over. It was incredible to look at this table that looked like America. It absolutely looked like America and Summer Lee is, she's hilarious and she was sitting next to me, she said, she said, Becca, what's going on with you? And I said, I'm getting really teary and she's like, ah, you're always getting teary. I said, but look at us, like look at us. None of us imagined that we would be here and here we are and we are trying to do something different. We're trying to make it different. The body itself, Congress different so that people see themselves represented and I'll also tell you some days are really hard. Some days are really hard when I feel like my community is being attacked in the most horrible ways but what I think about are the people back home that need me there to be speaking for the community and be standing up to the hatred and the fear mongering and so that knowing that there are people that need me to do that gives me hope and courage. Nice, nice. Are you going to be around from my executive director for Human Rights Committee going down to the prior for a September? Oh, great. But you know what? You know what, Becca? You know, I identify differently, you know, my point out that he is in him. But anyways, I go there like, I don't know how many years I've been going down to the front. I'm telling you, what a, you know, what a venue down in Waterford. My God, stage, like stages are big and tense everywhere. It's like, it's a million dollar production, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's so much fun. Pride is for everybody. Pride is for everybody. We want to see you all in pride. I'll be there. No doubt about it. So, Congresswoman Becca Bowen, thank you so much for being on a straight talk for my show. You know what I'm saying? So tell your staff, David, whatever, and let them know that a person who looks like me should be at every room, every event, everything you do. So just familiar with this story. I'll come, you know what I'm saying? They need to see person, people need to see people like me, you know, in Vermont, you know. It don't have to be me, but somebody to look at me. Thank you. So are you, what are you at right now? Why are you? I just, I had a meeting in Montpelier this morning talking about climate resiliency. And I think my next stop is we're driving down south to visit some of the communities that were hard hit by the flooding. And we were there a month or so ago. We're going to come back around and see how they're doing and see how the recovery's going. Nice. I'm like, you know, I'm just, I'm just like, I'm so proud, you know what I mean? I said, you got your hair all cut out, and you did it all done up. You're all done up, you're all done up in Spain. Wait, Bruce, I gotta tell you, I've had the same hairstylist for over a decade. And when I got elected to Congress, she said, you're not going to get a new hairstylist, are you? I was going to get a cut in Browlboro. So they call this the, they call this the Becca Ballant. So, that's right. I think I'm the only one who has it, but they call it the Becca Ballant. So I'm going to put the Congress warming in front of it though. For real, for real. All right. I got you back. Thank you so much for tuning in. We're going to have to do another show, right? All right, Becca. You have pride. Somewhere down the line. All right, bye, everybody. Thank you for tuning in to Straight Talk with Marcia.