 Hey everybody, this is Christian Buckley doing another MVP buzz chat and I'm talking today with the fellow MVP and RD Martin. Hello. Hi, Christian. Thanks for having me. For folks that don't know you, who are you, where are you and what do you do? I'm currently at home and home for me is Breda, the Netherlands, which is in the south of the Netherlands. And of course, Netherlands is a small country. So even though I'm in the south, I can drive to the north in under three hours. This is near the Belgian border. I live in the Netherlands. I'm CTO at Rapid Circle, a Microsoft implementation partner, about 400 people, locations in the Netherlands, in India, in Australia. And we focus on, yeah, Microsoft Cloud in quite a broad sense. And I try to be the connecting part between the products that Microsoft offer, the technology that Microsoft offers, and the solutions that customers are looking for. I live here with my wife, two boys, dog. So yeah, all happy, one happy family. And I know that you guys have been busy with, I don't know how many acquisitions of the history of Rapid Circle, but I, it's like I've known like Daniel McPherson for years and years, you know, down from Australia. And then of course, Paul Comsey's company just got acquired as well. So picking up, you guys also acquiring MVPs. Is that part of your strategy? No, well, no, no, per se, but it happens on the journey that we're, that we're undertaking indeed. Yeah. So in the Netherlands, I myself, I'm from one of the acquisitions. So Rapid Circle started in 2008. I started my company together with two other folks in 2010 called Portiva. And Portiva was acquired by Rapid Circle a year and a half ago. And I kind of moved on being the CTO from, from Portiva and moved to being CTO of Rapid Circle. And we did some acquisitions in Australia, indeed, in Tech, which is a really great partner for, for unified communications. And, and we did adopt and embrace and indeed seven Sigma now. So yeah, we're growing and I think we're really focusing on, on other acquisitions or merging or really on organizations that really have something to add, some added value, something that we are missing, that we don't have in our, in our stack in our offerings yet. And we're as well, I think. And it's great people to work together with. And I just, and I mentioned that just because I hear Rapid Circle mentioned a lot just in different places. So it's, it's good to see you guys are growing and have a bunch of familiar faces within. And, and so it's always great to hear your partners that you know of that are succeeding and, and growing. Yeah. So one of the big topics of this month is around community, of course, doing these, you know, getting to know people within the community and kind of their journey. I'll come back to that question. But, you know, what's kind of the state of, of community and your involvement? What do you see happening now that we're post pandemic? Is it people starting to show up at things again? I think so. Yeah. It's, it's kind of hard to, to, it was hard to sustain the community during the pandemic and, and now that we're back in, in in person to in person events. I think it helps. And every time we organize, I'm the board member of the D work, which is one of the larger communities here in the Netherlands when it comes to Microsoft 365. And I think before pre pandemic, we organized a meetup every month and we're always wealth is that always 70, 80, sometimes 90 attendees, great speakers, great topics. And then the pandemic had hit us and it didn't make sense to have a meetup every month that people would be joining online only. But we wanted to keep the community alive. So we kind of, we did a little step back and we moved to a meetup every two months. And now we're back. And we are discussing or debating, is it, should we go back to a monthly event or should we stick to a bi-monthly event? And we've chosen the latter so far and we'll see if that, that works. But every time when people come to, to one of our events, they're like, oh, we're so happy that we can do this again. But on the other hand, we really have to, we have to do more to, to attract people, to get people to the events and, and to get speakers to speak at the events. Now the same with, with the Collab Days Netherlands, which we organized last year in, in September. And this is the successor of SharePoint Saturday Netherlands, which we've been organizing for nine years in a row. And then we moved to Collab Days and then the first time we organized it, it was during the pandemic. So we did two online versions. And this time in September, it was the first in-person event that we organized again. And we were kind of used that when we did a call for sponsors that it would be a first come, first serve basis because we would be sold out in two hours. Everybody would love to be a sponsor on our event. And this time we really had to make an effort. In the end, we got the amount of sponsors we were looking for. And it was a successful event and all went well. But it, it required a lot of more phone calling, sending out reminders, etc. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a bit harder. I think people and, and organizations, companies, they're still a little bit reluctant. Yeah, we're, we're doing kind of something similar with our user group, where we're, you know, we're struggling to get people back to it. We've been back in person for quite some time, but I just the, the, you know, the flexibility of dialing in, we have, you know, four times as many dialing in as we do that are there in person. And, you know, that's, that it's not huge here locally. But that's, that's something that we have to factor in as well. There's some people that are happy to never go back in person to events. And so that's why it's a little bit extra work is to dig those, find those new people that are interested in being there in person. Yeah, I think what also doesn't help in, when it comes to community events, they're always in evenings, they're always post office hours, outside office hours. Or at least that it, it has always been like that. And now, I think during the pandemic, people have become more aware of, of separating business life and personal life. Because the first couple of months during the pandemic, it was just intertwined so much and, and everybody was just working. And, and we, and we started to realize, hey, maybe work life balance works a little bit differently. And it was easier to separate when we still went to the office. And then we got back and then you get out of the car and then your personal part of the day starts, your family time starts. But now suddenly you're just walking out of your home office and then personal life, family time should start. But it doesn't really work like that. So people were trying to find more of a balance and more of a separation. And that also means night time is my time. And I don't want to go to a community event because even though I like it and even though I like meeting people, it's still work related and not family related. So that also I think doesn't really help. But that, that mindset that people have grown during the pandemic. Have you guys, is your collab days still on Saturday? Have you moved it during the week? Okay, because we moved ours to Friday and our numbers went up. Yeah, yeah, it's something we have been discussing. So we might look into organizing it on a weekday actually this year. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I think we just kind of came to that same conclusion. And with, I mean, one experiment, we're going to do it again this year where we'll put it on a Friday. But from the last time we jumped up about 50% in our attendance. And so we're hoping that the same thing works out. Well, so I know you've been in MVP for seven, seven time MVP, eight time. Yeah, seven time, I think. And how long have you been in RD and for Microsoft Regional Director for those that don't know? I think four years, four years or five years, four years, I think. Yeah. So I always like to ask that. It's like, what was your, if you can go in the way back machine, what was that process to become an MVP? Kind of what was your path into being an MVP? Yeah, it's, I think I started with my public speaking, maybe at the end of the zeroes, I think 2007, 2008. That's when I started doing, when I joined the community that I'm now a board member of, but when I'm that community already existed before that. And I did some speaking events, local user groups. I started speaking at back then, SharePoint said today, we had a SharePoint connections back in the days, which was an event organized in Amsterdam, a commercial event, commercially organized. And I think the first couple of times that I did speaking events, I was like, OK, maybe this is, maybe someone will nominate me as an MVP, maybe that will be cool. And that never happened. I still, I don't know why, or maybe it did happen, but I just, I don't know. And as the years moved on, I just kept on doing my things. I became a board member. I started speaking a little bit more outside of the Netherlands, et cetera, and suddenly I got nominated and I got the confirmation email, hey, my congratulations, you've become an MVP. I think when I became an MVP, it was the last time we still had SharePoint MVP. So I think I was a SharePoint MVP. And then the year after that, I became an office service. Something, yeah. Server and services, I think. Yeah, yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, for me, it came quite unexpected because I have been participating at least in the Dutch community for more than just a couple of years already, but apparently never, it's kind of a black box. And that's, I mean, I don't blame anyone. It's just, it just didn't happen. And but I was okay with it. I still did my thing. And I was not really, maybe the first year I was okay. Maybe I could become an MVP, but it didn't happen. And then I just let it go. And then suddenly five, six years later, hey, you're an MVP. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I've talked to people. So one good friend and you know him and RD and MVP. And I remember he was really pushing for a couple of years to become an MVP. And finally, we were having a conversation and he said, you know, I just, I'm just putting that aside. Like, I don't care. If it happens, it happens. I'm not pushing for it. I'm not trying for it. I'm just, you know, all the benefits. I have all the benefits of participating in the community. He says, I've got great work. My network has exploded. You know, it's, you know, it's been fantastic. It's been beneficial by being out there. And of course the, just a personal gratification of helping people on that side of things. A month later, he becomes an MVP. So sometimes it's like the force. Yoda talking to Luke, you know, just like, just let go. Yeah, true, true. There's something to say about that. You know, there's, you know, a little bit of humility helps in your pursuit of something like this, but. I agree. I think you should never aim to become an MVP. I think you should aim to be a contributor to the community. If that's something you're looking for, then becoming an MVP will happen automatically or will be the ultimate reward or whatever, but it should not be your goal to become an MVP. That will never work. And I've talked to some people who have said, you know, I'm also not able to or not interested in giving back to the degree that they see some MVPs doing. There's nothing wrong with that. Being a participant within the community and is just something that you go and do and is part of your persona there, but focus on family and job and elsewhere. For a lot of it, and I often say, and I'm sure you say the same thing, it's like, look, I would do these things whether or not I had the MVP. I still would interview and talk to people. I'd still write the content. I'd still, you know, speak at the occasional conference of those things because I enjoy that. I enjoy documenting and getting feedback on and best practices and sharing that information out there. And I'll do it regardless. So eventually the program shuts down or I don't get renewed. I'm still gonna do the exact same stuff. Yeah, I agree. That's a pretty common point. I completely agree. Yeah. I'm what I really like about the community. I mean, 15 years ago when I started in the community, I was this kid, I still call myself back then and I was doing my first baby steps into the community. And I was really excited to get on stage and talk to 40, 50, 60 people at a community at a local meetup and talking to people. And I had my heroes back in the days. And now I still have much, much respect and I still look up to people. But now it's also my time to help others and to give them advice and to coach them and to offer a little bit of mentorship and to talk to them outside the community events. I have calls now and then with people within the Dutch community or just a couple of WhatsApp messages or let's get in a team's call and let's discuss. Hey, Marta, this new topic I wanna talk about. Can you help me a little bit about how should I write the abstract? What should be in the presentation? What not? I love it. That's really that. And I will always keep doing that as long as people think that I'm of value that I can actually help them. And then I will keep on doing this because this is the part of my job that I love. You know, I remember hearing about some people presenting and talking about people heckling them in their sessions and causing problems. Remember the first time I had that experience and he's a good personal friend. You know, it was Richard Harbridge before he was an interview, so young guy. So it was in a session and I was presenting that and he had these questions and feedback and he gave feedback on the presentation. Somebody came up to me afterwards like, can't believe that he said that and I'm like, he was right. No, that was great feedback and I made changes to that deck and we're good friends now. I mean, I always appreciate that having that community feedback. And that's why, I mean, that's actually a recommendation I give to people all the time is if you're trying to figure out how to get involved is to ask questions and provide that feedback because I, look, I've presented as you have to huge audiences, I've done, I've key noted to huge conferences and done those things. Some of my favorite events, like I was just thinking of SharePoint Saturday, Bend, Oregon, where we had, I think the biggest we were was 98 attendees. So then we had speakers and sponsors, it wasn't a whole lot, it was a small event. Those were fantastic events because sitting with six to 10 people in a session during the day and having more of an in-depth conversation and answering their questions, I get so much more out of that than just presenting to somebody. It's part of why I don't like online because people don't speak up enough. Yeah, I completely agree. And it happens even on busy meetups or community events or even large commercially organized conferences. It just happens that you think you have a great topic. The program team of the conference thinks you have a great topic because they selected you and you're in the program. But apparently there's other greater topics in that same session slot or your topic is maybe not so cool and you have, I don't know, maybe 10, 15, 20 people in your room or it's a very small meetup and that's the reason that you only have so many people in your room. I don't care, I don't mind. In fact, just as you just mentioned, that gives the opportunity to actually have a conversation instead of me just broadcasting and hoping that that gets digested and then people get something out of my story. But now suddenly you have the opportunity to listen to their story as well. And they're there for a reason so they probably have a story, right? And so then you can learn from each other and yeah, that's a great experience. Yeah, I always tell people is that one of the reasons I don't really get nervous up on stage was for a couple of years I was the lead singer of an alternative rock band. So the early 90s. I didn't know that. That's interesting. Yeah, so I did that for years and we at the towards the end there, the last six months, we were gigging almost every single weekend and sometimes both Friday and Saturday nights. And yeah, and my wife with our little daughter at home were not fans of that era. But anyway, we had it a few times where there were a handful of people were at some dive bar playing on their little stage. And at some point there's like a smoking area out back and everybody went out. There was nobody in there. I turned to my guitarist and they're like, hey, we're still playing for us. I just think of it like a practice again and we love our music. Let's just keep going and doing this. And they were fun shows to go and do but generally if there's no one in your room I probably would stop presenting. So it doesn't entirely carry over. No one, yes. But one person, I mean, that's all you need. And hey, they've got a little more quality time with the presenter. Yeah, true. So yeah, that's something I do love as well. But so last question for you. So what topics are you passionate about like you really focused on right now that you're writing about or you're speaking about right now? So one of the topics I've been really diving into lately is sustainability. We get a lot of questions lately from customers that I think up to, I don't know, maybe a year ago when customers would come to us and they would ask us, could you help build a business case for us to move a certain workload to the cloud? And the business case is almost always financially driven but it's hard to make a financial, if it's just finance, if it's just cutting costs that you're interested in, then moving to the cloud is not per se the best option, right? Because it's not always cheaper to go to the cloud. It is if you can also make it more efficient and you should look into that, right? But anyway, that's an all other topic. But the reason why I'm saying this is because as of lately, customers are also asking us, could you add sustainability into that business case as well because we have shareholders, we have a very critic customer set, we have a government that is interested in what we do concerning CO2 footprint, carbon footprint, et cetera. So we need to have a look at our carbon footprint and our IT is a large part of our carbon footprint. And so we're talking about scope one, scope two, scope three, et cetera. And how can you add that to your business case? And Microsoft has released the carbon emissions dashboards in Power BI, which led you already have a look at, so what is my carbon footprint for my M365 environment or what is my carbon footprint for my Azure environment per subscription, per workload, et cetera. So that really, really helps. But now as of summer last year, they've moved one step further and now they have the sustainability manager as well, which is not just about your carbon footprint of the Microsoft data center, but it's about the carbon footprint of your entire organization. So it's also about cars that you have, it's about home offices, it's about the real, the office buildings, how much energy do they consume? It's even about if you deliver products and your customers use those products, how much carbon do they generate in using your products? So even that's part of the carbon footprint of an organization. So that's a topic that I'm really, really generally interested in. I've been looking into sustainability for a large part of my life. This, I live in my house here. I have 48 solar panels. My house is completely energy neutral. I have triple glass everywhere. I have an earth, a geothermic warm pump in my house. I drive, we have two electric cars. So it's all about sustainability. And I love it that this is becoming a thing for many organizations as well. And where I can help, yeah, I try to help. So logically, because I'm working with a lot of customers on this topic, it helps that I'm building up knowledge about this myself as well. And I try to share that knowledge again within the community. Yeah, no, it's a great topic. I know it's an important and it's a growing topic. There's a lot, if you wanna talk about a sustainable topic, see what I did there, that's gonna be around for a long time. It's more focusing more on- And rightfully so, yeah, yeah. Very cool. Hey, I appreciate your time. It's great to finally get to catch up. We've known each other for many, many years. Going back to, I mean, I know which one, but probably back to the SharePoint Saturday Netherlands events. I know I did a lot of those for years. So, but great to connect with you. Thanks for being my guest here on the 200th episode of MVP Buzz Chat. So thanks so much, yeah. I feel honored. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Great, great. People wanna connect with you or reach out to you. What are the best ways to find you? Twitter, LinkedIn, Twitter is Martin Eccles. You can find me on LinkedIn as well. I think that works the best, yeah. Excellent. Well, thanks a lot, Martin. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Chris. Bye.