 See what's new on the Burlington Waterfront. Hi, welcome to On the Waterfront. And I'm your host, Mariah Riggs, director of the Main Street Landing Performing Arts Center. Tonight, I'm excited to be hosting Jim Lockridge, dear friend and founder of Big Heavy World. Jim Lockridge has directed the Independent Music Office for over 25 years now, starting back in 1996. It is channeling the local and national support of inclusive preservation and promotion of Vermont-made music. He co-founded and manages a community radio station, which probably most of you have heard, called The Radiator, and participates on boards that coordinate program and advocacy among the cultural heritage, tourism, and creative industry. James was recently recognized by the Vermont Arts Council with the 2019 Margaret Canestine Award for Arts Advocacy. Welcome today, Jim. So nice to have you here. Happy to be here. Yeah. So I think it's important to talk. I want to know this, because I don't think I've ever covered this with you. I want to get in a little bit to Big Heavy World. And I've always wanted to ask you this, but I've never gotten a chance. How did Big Heavy World start back in 1996? Oh, that's a quick answer. I was a graphic designer back then, and the internet was brand new. It was a whole new platform to play with for publishing. And I started it because I lived in a band house and was surrounded by music and live music in my life and wanted to publish about local music to the internet. And so Big Heavy World was born that way as sort of a guide to who the local bands were, what they sounded like as an encyclopedia. And it became more and more broad in what it tried to do to support local music, put out compilation CDs, started live streaming from the clubs downtown, and ended up where it is today with a few projects that continually support local music or preserve it. What was the music art scene like back in 1996? Some of our viewers might not remember back then. What was it like? Well, there's officially, I think that the wide world would say that alternative music was a new big thing then. Here in Burlington, we had so many different kinds of supremely talented artists. It's like it's kind of silly to put one name for a genre on all of them, but it was a very vibrant scene because it was so eclectic. But not only that, in Burlington, all these very talented musicians in separate bands would, on very special nights, sort of come together from different bands, create these super groups, and these events that if you weren't there, you were gonna miss it and never see it again for the rest of your life, some special event. And so there was this culture of sort of collaborative, diverse talent that we were just immersed in. And it was a very high point, I think, for music in Burlington or Vermont. And so it sounds almost like it was this culture where people would have meetups. People would come in, there'd be different musicians, and they'd actually just play together. Well, I think fundamentally, musicians locally knew each other and respected each other. The talent was real. It wasn't a community of pretendor musicians. Everybody was very high level. And that just lent itself to the community acting like a community, which was nice. Yeah, where you could almost pick up and have musicians just participate on the same level, which makes things so much more vibrant. I lived in Austin, Texas for several, many years, actually, and that was something that was part of the culture as you had a lot of exceptional musicians. And that's something that's always drawn me to Burlington. Burlington has a culture of incredible musicians. And so, when everybody is at a certain level, it lends itself to everybody to be able to pick up and be creative together, right? Because everything's as good as the sum of its parts, right? Well, it was a really perfect time to be interested in local music, to be trying to help promote it, accelerate it and capture it for posterity as well. So that's what Big Heavy World's energy was. It was also from the start. It was started as a website, and I mentioned I was in a band house, and the band house was a band called Chin Ho, led by Andrew Smith, who published Good Citizen, A Zine. And Andrew didn't have an interest in the internet, and he was surrounded by a culture of people supporting music through the print zine. Big Heavy World brought people interested together in promoting local music with the internet as the tool for that. And so there was this sort of sympathetic energy concentrated in this one place and sort of leveraging each other. And to this day, Big Heavy World is comprised of a crew of volunteers who are mostly younger adults. Yeah, I mean, that's something too that I'd love to talk about. I think Big Heavy World has been sort of this incubator space for young creatives for a very long time in Burlington. And that's one of the great things that Big Heavy World has brought to this community. What led you to wanna start doing that? Oh gosh, it's... I think this is gonna be personal versus institutional, but somehow or other in my head, I've ended up feeling that it's important that people start early in life realizing that they should have self-confidence. They should have a sense of valuing their opinion and expressing critical thought and being a part of the community without feeling that they aren't good enough to be a part of the official community. So there's this whole interest in general empowerment of community members. I don't like being born into a world where unless somebody points out that you actually do belong here and have a role to play, you end up floating through life, getting bumped around by other people who have figured that out. And I want young people to understand that early enough in life. So at Big Heavy World, we have this whole suite of different programs and projects and special projects that open the door for people to do very professional, meaningful things that contribute to Vermont's cultural legacy or the success of an economic sector, but they get to step into it without having professional acumen. You know, it's like, there it is, let's go. And we figure it out together and make things happen that way. And that's a huge problem in production and in any sort of art industry is getting that experience. You know, it's very easy for people like, oh, what experience do you have and you want to get into it, but you aren't able to get that experience. And Big Heavy World allows people to have interest and excitement and get that experience and something that they're passionate about. I think a lot of the time it works out that way most of the time. So you don't, whether you come in to help with the museum or the archive or with producing a radio show, you know, nobody leaves without knowing how to coil a cable over under, you know? It's like various central skills are learned there. So, you know, another thing that I'd like to talk about is Big Heavy World also includes the famous Burlington radio station, the radiator, which is at 105.9. How did the radiator start? Oh, well, there was a very short window way back in the year 2000 when the federal government allowed Vermonters to apply for a very small strength radio license. And I understood, and our friend Lee Anderson from Radiobean understood that cooperative applications were more competitive than applications that had a single applicant. And so we worked together to apply for a license to have a radio station that could be a platform for our local creative community so that it would be hyper-local with nothing syndicated, only local people doing, you know, bringing the voice of the community to the airwaves. And Big Heavy World would automate original Vermont-made music in between these local DJs. And the radio station would be a platform to get the word out about what we're doing and for the young people involved to have a whole other, you know, set of skills to learn. And four years after applying in the year 2000, so in 2004, the FCC said you can build the station and if it works, we'll put the license in your hand. And in 2007, we built it at work, they put the license in our hand. So our job is to manage it responsibly enough that the license stays there. So we're very, you know, square and formal about operating a licensed community radio station that is hyper-local now. And although Lee stepped back from the station many years ago, we've carried forward the original vision purely and with Lee being honored in the way the station is maintained, so. And that's a big thing for musicians in Vermont too, is Vermont can be a hard place to launch from and get your music out there and get kind of out of the shire, if you will, and get it projected. So it seems like a natural fit that a local hyper-local radio station would be a fabulous soapbox to sort of kind of propel musicians forward and kind of give them the airwaves. Well, it's an authentic traditional media outlet that has a proper place in an artist's CV or, you know, press kit. We also have several shows on the station, including one that Big Heavy World produces where artists perform in our interview. So, you know, there's opportunities. Which is invaluable to a Vermont artist. There aren't many places that Vermont artists, you know, can get that kind of leverage and that includes your work at Live at the Fort, right? I think that's true. Yeah, you know, I think Vermont public is doing a good job, you know. I have to say thanks out loud to their interest in supporting local music through their programming. You know, I'm grateful for any radio station that is supporting local music, recognizing, you know, what we have in Vermont. It's so special. It is, and the more that we nurture it and incubate it and support it, the more it's able to grow. And, you know, that's been a big part of what the mission of Big Heavy World has been and what it's supported over the last 25 years. So thank you, Jim. Oh, you're so sweet about that. Thank you. So what is currently something at the Radiator that you want our audience to know about? Oh, geez. Well, the radio station has been attracting people from the community who want to be a DJ. And the evening slots are essentially full. The morning and daytime slots are open. And we want it to truly be a voice for the community, inclusively. So people who would like to present shows on any topic, any kind of music, and any language are welcome to come be hosts on the station. So did everybody hear that? Who's watching right now? If you want to have a morning, afternoon radio show, I know that the website link is at the bottom of the screen right now. Please contact Jim Lockridge. I know that you're out there. So another thing I really want to talk about, which I know has been a labor of love for you for many years now, is that Big Heavy World just opened a tiny museum of Vermont music. Woo-hoo, this past September. And so I kind of want to talk to you about it because I haven't really been able to discuss this with you since you opened. Now, how did you pull this together, Jim? Well, it came together. I have to give a whole lot of credit for the inspiration for this museum to the state's historical society. They welcomed us to curate their local history gallery in their museum in Montpelier in 2019. And we brought a room full of exhibits together there for the first part of that year. And while that exhibit was up, we were inspired to create space in our office, our studio, for keeping this exhibit available to the public. And since then, of course, this was a couple years ago, the exhibits have grown and we've been fortunate enough to bring some significant artifacts to present. And the space is becoming very full. We're wondering, where do we go from here? And it's been a joy to sort of open the doors and then have people contact us and offer artifacts. And so we take the... What artifact are you slightly proud of? You'd like to tell our audience today. I'd want to reframe that. I want to say the personal pride that I would ever feel towards Big Heavy World is a pride in everybody who ever touched it. Well, that's true. So I think that I'm proud of our community at large, both our philanthropist supporters, the people who helped create the exhibit itself, the people who continue to contribute to making versions of our exhibits mobile. A central item on exhibit these days is the saxophone of Big Joe Burrell. Wow. And it's like every other artifact, it's the starting point for telling a story. And so we're in this very privileged situation of being the conduit for the story of Big Joe because people are standing in front of the saxophone. And so we take that responsibility very seriously, like we do with other artifacts. And the other artifacts are significant as well. We're stewarding, we're not owning, we're stewarding a door that came from the office of 242 Main so that we can advocate for the restoration of the 242 Main program and put the door back. We have Pete Sutherland contributed a fiddle that he played in the 1970s. He gave us the posters of the festivals in Vermont that he played the fiddle at. So you're almost an archive. It's like a place where people can store artifacts of important intent in the history of music in the state. That's the core objective, yes. And when I say, we get to tell the story about each artifact, when you walk into the museum you find the labels and the labels are brief but most of them have a QR code and if you hold your phone up to it, you end up on a webpage with a whole lot more about what's going on. And it's the volunteers, the young people who are researching, talking to people in the community and writing and gathering the media for those extended narratives. So that's sort of been a collaborative effort too is consolidating sort of all the information in the exhibit. Yeah, yeah, it really never stops. So this leads me to my very big question. How does somebody go see the exhibit? Every Wednesday from six to eight PM, visit us at Four Howard Street. It's a big red building called the Howard Space and our door is behind some apartment-looking mailboxes on posts, there's a red sign, it's on Howard Street but it's a big building, you gotta find our door. Between four and seven on Wednesday. But between six and eight at the moment and the hours are expanding as our volunteers become docents while they're working on other projects. And six to eight is when our crew gets together. So we're there anyway. So could teachers and faculty at local schools also contact you if they wanted the students to come take a look at it? That would be a dream come true. So if anybody is a teacher out there listening to this and you want to expose your children to the history of Vermont music, please contact Jim Lockridge and go to the museum because it's part of their heritage too. I think it's very important. So here, as we finish this conversation what are the goals and plans for the next 25 years of Big Heavy World? Any thoughts on that? Well, it's one thing to have an imagination and vision. It's another to make a plan to, so we're somewhere in between I think. We've always been and we remain a very grassroots nonprofit organization, essentially volunteer run. And my hope is that ultimately we'll be recognized for the role we've played for 25 years filling a void where the state has not created a music development office for itself. Other states like Texas have and big cities like Seattle have but Vermont and the city of Burlington have just not pointed in that direction. And the volunteers of Vermont have filled that gap at Big Heavy World for many years. And I think we've learned how to do it well enough to stick our hand in the air and say, hey, state of Vermont, if you want a music office, you got one. Moving in that direction. We're still here. So moving on to another, I know a very personal project for you is sort of the status of Burlington's Memorial Auditorium. I think it's important to kind of get in and I'd love to hear your opinion on why Memorial Auditorium is so important to the people of Burlington. Boy, the people of Burlington in 2018 told us directly through more than 2,000, 2,500 survey responses, why Memorial is important and what they want to see there. A petition that Big Heavy World offered has 2,200 signatures saying please fix Memorial and put 242 Main back in it, the youth-led cultural space. Memorial is a public commons in a New England state that has winters. It's the city-owned performing arts infrastructure. And it has been acknowledged by the city's leadership to have been neglected to the point where it's unsafe and falling down. It's the city's obligation to maintain the infrastructure that serves something so vitally important to a community, a space to get together, especially in a period of history where we've been torn apart by the pandemic. It's a platform for bringing us together, making us stronger, reminding us we're a community. And it's the home of 242 Main, which, you know, two- So that's where I'm gonna go into next, too, is I wanted to talk to you about 242's story because I know it's an integral part of your story. And so I wanted to talk to you about that. What is the history of 242 for some of our viewers who might not know what that space was and what it gave to the Burlington Art scene? So happy to share this. The young people who have become teenagers or young adults after 2016 when it closed won't have this kind of insight. In the 1980s, Bernie Sanders was mayor. He created a youth office. The youth office created a teen-led space in the basement of Memorial Auditorium. It's essentially, you know, a cinder block box, but the kids owned it. Full disclosure, I actually went there as a teen, so I should note that. So this space existed with the city's support for young people to have the experience of being creative for one another or messaging to each other, like from stage, the pattern of bands between songs, you know, the important things that had to be said, youth to youth were said there and the examples were set for being critical-minded, for having the confidence to present to one another, to share and to be part of a community. And most of the youth that attended 242 Maine, I think it's common wisdom, would have felt marginalized otherwise, but this was their safe space. And that was a critical resource to any community. And I remember at the time when Bernie helped set it up too, for him, it was a public workspace that, you know, these children might not have a place to go, not might have a place to gather, to be themselves, to work together in a common space of community and that that was gonna be there for them. And, you know, you do have to question now that the city lacks that, you know, what it's lost, which I do think is an important point. Well, there's tragedy in this story. The silver lining is there is now the catalyst for having a public conversation about these values. The tragedy is when Memorial was closed, forcing 242 Maine to close, there was no comment from anybody in city's leadership about the importance of this kind of resource. There was no program direction to reestablish teen-led cultural space somewhere else in the city. That entire demographic, who every city leader serves, was not served when 242 Maine was closed. And it has been a challenge to bring the understanding, the value statement that teens deserve that kind of attention and service and resource to city leaders, whether it's the mayor's administration or city counselors. Well, how do you get future leaders if they don't have a space in which, how to learn leadership, you know, it seems to be pit and parcel of the same question. And it is, it is a tragedy. So what do you foresee as the future of 242? This point. Before I answer that, I'll lay a couple of things out. The first is 242 Maine existed for more than 30 years. The kids programmed it. The kids programmed, for the most part, aggressive music making 242 Maine the longest running all-ages punk rock venue in the country as a teen-led cultural space rematerializes in Burlington, I believe we've all learned lessons about being purposeful about inclusion. I think the programming and the kids that are involved will become more diverse and the programming will as well. So when I say, you know, when you and I talk about 242 Maine of the future, I think that we're talking about evolving the model that- Yes, a grassroots organization in the scope of Big Heavy World. And this leads me to my next thing. I do wanna have a quick pitch here for a very important organization that Jim and I do work on. The Vermont Creative Network Chittenden County. This is an organization that Jim and I both work on and have been trying to promote and to foster support in Chittenden County for. The more the membership grows, the more feedback we get from you, the more dynamic the network will become. You will see information on the screen for how to get involved in this network if you're watching this right now. So please follow the information on the screen or get in touch with Jim and I about it because that's another grassroots organization that we can pool our collective consciousness and grow from. If there is one continuous thread through this entire conversation, I would suggest that everything comes from the community. And that's sort of the architecture of a lot of your work, I've known Jim for many years now, is that the infrastructure is there in the community and it grows from itself in an organic process. It can when the community comes together. We have to acknowledge that it takes a decision to be made that people will work together. So this is the call to action to get in touch. Come work with us. Can everybody hear that? So there's been some great information today at the bottom of the screen for all of you. If you wanna reach out to Jim, his blog, Big Heavy World, The Radiator, again, they're looking for, they're working for content during the day and mornings. So please reach out if you have interest in that. And also please try to reach out to us because we are trying to create a dynamic, creative community here in Chittenden County and we'd love to hear from you because we are the sum of our parts. Jim, thank you so much for all the wonderful work you've done over the past 25 years. Burlington is a more dynamic and remarkable city because you're in it and I appreciate everything you've done. And thank you all so much for being here with us today on the waterfront. It's been a wonderful time and I will see you right back here next month. Thank you.