 Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE. Covering OpenStack Summit North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the OpenStack Foundation and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Stu Miniman with my co-host, John Troyer and you're watching theCUBE, the worldwide leader in tech coverage. Happy to welcome back to the program. Arturo Suarez, who's with Canonical Program Director. Haven't had him on for a couple of hours. Arturo, thanks for joining me again. All right, and David Safayi, who's the CEO of Trilio Data. We introduced your company or our community last year at the show in our backyard in Boston. So thanks for joining us here in beautiful Vancouver. Thanks for having me again. Good to see you. All right, so David, let's start with you. It's a year since we talked to you. Data management, absolutely just such a hot space. Bring us into that update as to your company, what's happened at OpenStack and let's get into it from there. Sure, it's been an exciting year since I've seen you last. I think part of it, it's been the evolution and the maturity of this ecosystem that we're seeing. More business units are now moving production workloads into this environment. So the call to Trilio has really taken place. A lot of the times you're seeing now these cloud teams having to scramble to find the proper data protection solution. Trilio being a cloud native backup solution built for this environment is just a logical selection. Yeah, it's one of those things I scratch my head. Maybe you can explain to me is, remember back, it was like when we did virtualization, it was like took a little while before we had a good backup solution for there. When we go to cloud, it's like, oh wait, let's not forget things like security and backup. Why does it take a little bit while for that to kind of catch up into the market and have good solutions? So if you think about it this way, when people start this journey, right, the initial intent a lot of the time is to have some stateless workloads. We know that that's not the case. Perception of reality, and you're going to see it in the container market as well. So that's kind of the evolution that you see. That's kind of the draw, that's what we see. Okay, Arturo, explain to us how canonical fits. So obviously canonical powers more open-stack than anyone else does open-stack foundation survey. We like to say it, but that's a fact as well, right? So we're happy to partner with Trilio. We've always been very keen to accommodate the ecosystem in our story. Trilio of all matters very well our idea of having better economics as well for the data center. And it opens up open-stack, not only for the original goal of open-stack, like the hyperscalers or the scale out applications, right? Which are cloud native if you want, and are born on open-stack. And open-stack is born for them, right? For that type of application. But now it opens up to a wide range of existing, I wouldn't call it legacy, you know what I mean, like old applications that are really not going to be refreshed. You know, you only refresh that many applications a year after a year. 10% of your applications, 15% if you have a good DevOps team. Those still are suffering from locking, from being in that virtualization world or not even there, right? And with open-stack and the addition of Trilio as a backup DR solution, you suddenly provide what a pet VM needs, right? So it suddenly opens up to a large real estate of the data center to be accommodated in open-stack seamlessly. It's great. The curious here at Open-stack Summit this year, kind of the customers you're seeing, someone said to me the other day that, you know, the people here this year are people with mortgages to pay. And they meant that in a complimentary way and that they're not like the cloud astronauts or that they're not arguing about the philosophy of what is a true cloud, they actually have business to do. So I don't know, can you talk about some of what you're seeing here at this show and the kinds of people or maybe, you know, who are the folks that are using, or the kind of folks that are using Trilio today? Yeah, and I think the conversation has been, it's a high quality conversation, a high caliber conversation where it's a lot of day two conversations that have taken place. So it's been engaging. People need to act, they need to move. They've got these fabulous clouds that slice and dice and they expand in every which way possible. Now they say, all right, we have to codify this. You know, the journey to the cloud doesn't need to be painful. And that's one of the great things that Canonical has done well, right? Build, operate, manage. Here's your cloud. We're going to stand it up. You know, it's everything that you need. Now with Trilio, it's not, can I add back up to it? Like fries, it's not like that. It's adding data protection to codify that. And again, that's why we're seeing these people start coming. They're asking that, they're asking that question. Are you mostly talking to folks over in the enterprise space? I mean, I mean, with OpenStack writes a lot of the conversations in the carrier space, they have some slightly different needs. How is that working for you? No, it's broadened. I might say our customer base is everything from manufacturing to we're seeing financial services all over the world adopt OpenStack. So again, it goes to the testament of adopting and building much easier than ever before. And the economics are a big benefit. In terms of building on top of OpenStack, or you know, so directly with the APIs, how in OpenStack has a number of components, all API, all with APIs and componentized. So how has that relationship been working with Canonical and both Canonical's OpenStack as well as the standard, getting used to the standard parts of the OpenStack stack? Yeah, so we certify ourselves across the distribution, but part of this is the seamless integration. If you're leveraging Juju Charms, for example, the life cycle management of that cloud. So whether you're going through an upgrade process, or staying up a new cloud, Trilio just fits him in glove with Canonical. Yeah, at the end of the day, APIs are APIs. OpenStack is OpenStack, right? That is very well-defined, is how you build it. When you build it to just take a picture of it and have an OpenStack up and running, or when you build it to have an OpenStack, that's going to be in your data center for 10 years, for 20 years, right? That is upgradable, et cetera, right? So that is our main difference. The OpenStack at the end of the day, the API is just consumable just for us, as well as for the other guys. It's exactly the same API. We don't modify, not everybody, right? But we do not modify anything from OpenStack. It's pure AppStream OpenStack, right? There's no real difference. Okay, what about, I think service providers would be key market for this. How does that play in for both of you? I mean, the service provider market, of course, is a big adopter of OpenStack. And then now you're seeing also with the NFV environment, the rapid adoption there, it's been an important add to the OpenStack cloud, if you think about, how do I recover my configurations in that environment? So, yeah. Exactly, and we mentioned before, right? Like the expensive real estate, and even in the world of service providers, when you move out of the core, right? And they're challenging SLAs, right? So DR is effectively, and that data protection as well, because the VNFs that are running are effectively managing data that is prone to be protected, especially in countries in Europe, for instance, with the GDPR, et cetera. You really need to have accountability of what data is in your data center without taking into account the economics of having an extra data center there, right? So the DR and data protection elements are key to the cloud strategy of service providers, right? What are folks looking at as cross-cloud strategies and backup? Like, what is the target, right? I'm assuming either cross data center or also up to the public cloud. How are people looking at that, either one? So we see it, as far as the backend store and the target, we really have certified ourselves across any backup target. Within Canonical, using SEP storage, you have the added benefit of geo-replication, right? So if the DR story starts to evolve there, so if site goes down, you have geo-replication, you have Trilio there to spin back up that other site, back up again. Relative to the public cloud, as the hybrid world continuously evolves, we're ready for that. We have qualified against S3, for example. But no one's banging down the door just at this moment. I think a lot of people just need to get the blocking and tackling done and leverage really the assets that they have to make the most out of and get the ROI there. And then we'll see if the demand evolves. So the beauty is to have the choice, right? The freedom of choice, which is what some other private infrastructure software doesn't allow you to do. Like, this is the one thing you can eat today, right? So that freedom of choice, whether you want to put that in a public cloud if it's security compliant and whatnot, or you want to have that in another region, in another replicated somewhere else, in another storage backend that is colder and cheaper. So that freedom of choice is a great asset, right? Arturo, what are you looking forward to in terms of the evolution of OpenStack storage and data capabilities? So OpenStack is already opened up for absolutely everything, right? Storage, in fact, in OpenStack was, I mean, this is my 15th OpenStack, right? So I've been following it from the very, very beginning, right? So the storage in OpenStack is actually was the project that was mature first. I didn't want to start the question off with, well, OpenStack storage is kind of done, right? Yes. But it is, right? At the end of the day, when you look at all the even existing more legacy type of storage filers, already have an integration with OpenStack. OpenStack made a turn a few years ago, again, I mean, old stories of OpenStack, but when we started doing Cinder and the Cinder drivers, we're applying that to Neutron and the Neutron plug-ins now for network, but the Cinder drivers actually are a very easy way to plug in literally any other storage solution that you might find out there. And the beauty of it is that you don't have to choose one. You can have many storage back-ends in your data center, right? So that is there, and then it will be, as we talked before, it'd be just a decision on the on-appair use cases. Canonical will be part of that. Canonical will have a solution ready for each of those use cases by enabling partners, and obviously, there will be some of them that will be more adequate to what the compliance and security turns on, right? David, I'd love you to follow up on that. So the companies that have gone through the alphabet from A through Queens and have the bumps and bruises, what's it like being a startup, getting into the ecosystem more recently? What's the opportunities? Yeah, I mean, I think, for us, the customers are at various points in their journey, right? So we have to be able to qualify whether you're on Kilo or you're on Queens, and we have to be able to deliver a service that you know is rock solid. So that's an onus on us to deliver that, make sure it's bulletproof. So it takes a lot of work, but the community's been great to work with. The customers view us as partners, and they're willing to work with you, which has been fantastic. Okay, want to give you both the final takeaways from the event? David, do you want to start? Sure, so as I was saying before, I think the conversation's been high-caliber conversations, right? It's been interesting for us, because if you think about backup and DR, data protection is actually a much broader term, and I think it evolves, and I think we're in a great spot for it to evolve even further. We take a point, a workload, a point in time, right? If the conversation becomes about workload mobility inside your cloud, I can move it to any part, and that's some of the conversations that we've had, using backup for resource management, right? I want to move tenants from one availability zone to another availability zone, or I'm standing up in a new cloud. That's just part of the byproduct of backup and recovery. One of the things that we're actually, we're exploring, and we'll give you guys a nice showcase of this in Berlin, is that we'll be running scanners through our backups, doing more with points in time to give your tenants and your customers the ability to go back to the best, last known state. You know it's clean. All the patches, the configurations, the antivirus type stuff. So this is going to be a great evolution, it's going to be a great journey. Having the ability of being a startup gives us the flexibility, and we can be nimble, where legacy data protection has 30-year-old code, and they don't have that ability, so it's been great. So as following up on what David said, the flexibility of having a data protection solution finally on OpenStack, being able to compare and win against all the private cloud infrastructure is a great asset. The fact that OpenStack now, you see it's ready for prime because it gets less media attention, it's not shiny anymore, it's not that interesting to talk about OpenStack, but everyone needs an OpenStack solution, right? The ecosystem landscape where it comes from the distro wars back in the day, we're not wasting time right there, right? So it's more of a feeling, a need that OpenStack opens up for, and Trilio has done that very well in the data protection domain, right? It's been a great relationship. All right, David Safaii, Arturo Suarez, thank you so much for joining us again, and check out theCUBE.net. If you go to the site, not only can you search by events and by guests, but if you put in keywords, for example, getting ready for this event, I typed OpenStack in, and there were hundreds of interviews that we've done over the years, not only at this OpenStack summit, but many of the other shows that have talked about it, go find them, poke around, so much content to be able to dig in. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, back with lots more coverage here at OpenStack Summit 2018 in Vancouver. Thanks for watching theCUBE. Thank you.