 We're back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa and of course zooming to a first major conversation now talk of a third alternative force emerging in Nigerian politics and possibly resting power from the two big political parties in the country We're talking about the APC and the PDP in the 2023 General elections it has been arrived in recent time as some Nigerians yearn for different political direction from what has Pertain in the country since its return to multi-party democracy in 1999 but what should such a political force look like and what mode of candidate should Nigerians look to glad to have Join us this morning on the breakfast to have a discussion on this the presidential candidate Of the African Action Congress and the leader of the ticket-backed movement also of revolution now or more elitio It's a guess this morning. I should say tear about Political a presidential candidate because that's right. I think I just confirmed you And your your colleagues welcome to the program. Thank you very much for bringing me. Good morning. Yes. How's it been for you? You know, you know since you got out of jail Well, I didn't really get out of jail Because after I was released from the DSS detention, I was also sequestered in Abuja by a court order What I mean is that a judge Said I could not live up to any part of Nigeria for so for three years. I couldn't live up a job I had to remand there until the court of appeal made the decision some few months ago That that decision was true draconian and said I could leave and go to any part of Nigeria As I wonder what the stick kept my passport. So I could live Nigeria, but I could not travel out of Nigeria Which is why I said I never really left detention, but if you think about Nigeria itself It's an open prison anyway Was it a life-changing experience for you being in detention and also being, you know, limited to a well in a lot of ways it's never happened even in the history of Nigeria in recent history the first time in Nigeria was Restricted to a city or town was a label it a Pai modu And it was during the colonial era After independence it happened to Chifobafemi Aula. He was restricted to leki here on here I mean somewhere around here Because they also claimed that he was involved in Trisnebu felone. It was eventually sent to prison caliber So I'm probably the third person in the history of Nigeria who was restricted to a city So I was inside detention and then I came out and I was in city detention Never happened. So it would be because it's historical in nature Of course, it's life-changing considering that I have not seen my family in the last almost Three and a half years now My younger brother was killed Murdered on the on the highway. I could not attend this barrier. So so many things really really happened and After I was released from detention. I was rearrested twice again You know injuries were inflicted on my they broke my nose bridge a police officer Another police officer shot me with a riot gun on the streets of Abuja on the tie so Pretty life-changing. Yes. All right. Let's get to the crux of the conversation prior to The elections that were anticipating in 2023. There's been a lot of talks about the thought force and We've heard that there might just be a reputation of what happened in 2015 and so It feels like a lot of Nigerians are anticipating, you know, something different away from the dominant political party but it hasn't really really, you know been very Concrete if you want to say I'd like to ask you do you think that there's a thought force as we approach the 2023 refrain from using the word thought force because To me is like inferiority complex To say that you are forced in a third degree Whereas the people you want to replace Who have already been abandoned and discarded by a way of public opinion? I then the dominant force if they are dominant forces and then being a thought force just meant that you want to Play along. I want to see us become the real force Because as the conversation we're hearing on the street is that people are tired of the two major big parties or legacy parties And they are tired of people who have been participating in the governance of Nigeria that put Nigeria where it is today the precarious situation that Nigeria has found itself and they don't have anything to do with them anymore, so Calling yourself a thought force means there's this first force and the second force of which you are at the back I'm not, you know, particularly impressed with that Terminology. Okay, so let me bring you back. Yes, being that you're not impressed with that Do you think that there's a real force ahead of the 2023 election? Yes, there is very very serious Forces within the grassroots who want to see a different outcome in this election And the outcome for them don't have anything to do with those who have been part of the despicable past as I like to Refatter it and you can feel it you can feel it that everybody and sometimes even the you know The energy might be misdirected But you can see the energy that people don't want to have anything to do They want to clean break from the past and that is what is most important. That is why structures I imagine they have nothing to do with the structures you and the media are used to which are Structures are just people in various part of the country with everything they can this time around in some cases using their own money I am raising money from people. I came out of detention with no money But people are donating through crowdfunding to my campaign people who can afford to do that at the time of economic hardship People who are desperate to see change. I mean real political change not You know something I'll put them back where they used to be in the last 22 23 years now. All right, we have a lot going on You know, this seems to be like you've said a sort of optimism that Something can change. Yes. I mean you started it, you know in 2019 with your message of take Nigeria back or take it back What kind of candidate Should Nigerians look to to salvage the situation in the country in a mode of an alternative to the PDP and APC kind of For me my recommendations are very very clear anyone who has been part of Governors and since 1999 in particular if you've been governor You've been vice president You've been a member of any of these political parties that we are all running away from Should not be part of those on that consideration active consideration by citizens People who have we have to have a clean break from the past because we have to be careful at this time not to run from frying pan to some serious fire and That's my recommendation that you know do it by way of elimination series Don't have anything to do with anybody Who cannot present a record that is clean and clear about their performance in the past So that's that's where we should start from. All right, there's this idea of you know nice. That's what Nigerians. It's a lesson evil Some of the view that you need to look at okay What's the best chance of kicking the PDP and the APC out? Let's look for the candidates or candidates who have a greater chance and then these candidates out may also be thinking Okay, can we pull some of the big names in court big names from these parties the PDP and the APC? To our side as a third-force party to be able to respite from them. That's the first thing So we're looking at maybe less evil now What do you think about this concept of the less evil as far as this election is concerned? I have never met any evil That is less Evil is evil I've never met a junior evil or a small evil never heard about them before I've never heard of an apprentice evil before Evil is he nobody should go for the lesser evil, especially when the opportunity has presented itself for you to go with the angels and It is the idea sold even to voters sometimes to say look Yes, they admitting that they are bad, but you see, you know, why don't you just look as one of us? Yes, he's bad, but it's not as bad as the rest of us That is how we got here in 2015 You know the concept of a lesser evil a former general lesser evil Who has now established himself as the biggest evil to walk the face of this land? So why would anybody do that to themselves again, especially when you have experience? at your Duster to Teach you that this is a mistake we've made in the past and we should never repeat it You know, and you know what when as they say that when history repeats itself It's always even a bigger tragedy But let's also talk about you know, it's a good thing that you've mentioned the repeat of 2015 and we understand that in 2015 there was a conversation about the third force. It wasn't maybe very prominent. Maybe it was 2019 you meant Yeah, 2015 wasn't I didn't see third force in 2015 So we're talking about, you know, the current government Yeah, that took power at a time and we understood that there was a measure You know a measure of political parties for us to have, you know The APC now as a government and a lot of people describe that as a thought force and I Think that Nigerians have been waiting for, you know The same pattern to have political parties come together and you know, adopt a certain party or you know Combination of several parties to form a government now We know how Nigerians and a lot of peasants were very, you know Strong on this current government and you know, what's the way forward? It was the solution It will solve all of the problems Do you think that we might just also be at the verge of you know a reputation of 2015 because if you look at the outcome juxtaposing that with what was proposed at the time and what we're seeing now and you know Is it's nothing to write to him about what can we look out for what should we do not to repeat the same mistakes? I mean what to do is to look at Some of the parameters that led us to 2015, you know the hysteria, you know the conjuring of facts Lies are trying to be told, you know any biggest mistake perhaps that was made at that time was the lack of Interests in investigating some of the things that were thrown at us, you know when they said oh this person has these characteristics people didn't even check we didn't fact check and Most of the candidates at that time actually did not talk to Nigerian people. They didn't present any Manifesto manifestos people were on their own presenting manifestos and The part of the hysteria at that time was people saying well even if I catch him robbing a bank I'll support him if he doesn't have a certificate that he can present the NEPA bill I'll support him and Here we are with the NEPA bill without light, you know seven years later without electricity Everything has been shut down if you are seeing those patterns repeating themselves as we are saying in some cases now But you supported this guy. No, it's not true. I you never you're a journalist, you know, you can present if I ever you know supported Buhari people say that because they knew that I was diametrically opposed to the corruption that was going on at that time and Everybody could have taken my stories around with it You know people could swear by my stories in those days. I mean when I was actively Writing for Sahara products, which I haven't done in like four years. It's the same thing now That the political parties on the other side are doing with the APC government They take Sahara product stories and use it to say hey here comes the corruption You know you drove us away from so we have been consistent on our side But to say that I campaign for boy, I lie or that I tweeted or ask anybody to vote for This video making rounds, you know showing you, you know Swam by APC supporters when the presidential election Resolve was announced. Yes, because I was the one first Sari put I was the first to announce all the results even when I neck was still back there with it So I was returning from the International Conference Center in Abu Dhabi CC and going to attend a press Conference that Buhari was supposed to hold at his campaign headquarters and when the young people there saw me They came around and being more busy. Wow. This is sure at the star report Most people have never up until that time met me before so I was one who personally uploaded The video on my page or YouTube or Sahara TV and they were saying change dole, you know Which is house I work for, you know change by force. So This there was nothing to eat other than that I found myself in the middle of these young people who were excited to see me this great journalists in the country I was Similarly mobbed But I didn't have the video in Ghana when I went to cover the Ghanaian election that produced the current president of Ghana The first his first time because nobody thought that he will win and we were reporting because we were in a hotel with all these international Observers and they had gotten the results the Americans had gotten the results showing that this guy had one So we broke the story when we went to the headquarters off The campaign of this particular candidate the current president of Ghana and we introduced ourselves We were equally mobbed. How did you guys get the results of the Ghanaian election? So and I still get that even up to today Most people recognize me for my work on Sahara reporters that they even like treat me now as an activist Because they always have a story that they refer to as one big breaking story When investigative report that has something to do that change their lives so that was what happened at that time and They took it around with tits, you know, you know, tweak tits and said, oh, I was jubilant Even though I had a camera on my neck I had a tag that enabled me to enter ICC where the election was represented. So I never Packed was was was almost a big deal in 2019 and not a few Nigerians hope that would be some sort of force It didn't work. I think you've you've talked about it several times. Yes, so we don't have to go into it Is there a possibility looking at the mood, you know, right now as far as the elections are concerned, is there a possibility that yourself as Candidate presidential candidate of the AC will partner with another Alternative party we say that was because they are too big, you know, like is it top four in EPO? Probably maybe the presidential candidate of Labour Party who seems to be garnering a lot of attention So far and love social media support the young people think that he isn't the one to lead the country for Are you are you willing to to form an alliance with Peter Obee of the Labour Party in the next election? We are very different people. We are different ideologically. We are different in terms of conviction history that It's impossible for me to abandon what my convictions are what my beliefs are to form an alliance with someone who is part of the chip of of the old luck and If I am opposed to PDP and APC, I cannot then jump into bed You see Obee as a chip of the old luck, of course A lot of people out there don't see him as they see my somebody who was with the PDP and saw that there was a Possibility they have to partner in money to get the nomination and he left Where did you think they got the money for the nomination in 2019 with article the paid-off delegates? So how did he get the money who shared the money? Are we pretending that that didn't happen? So it's why I cannot be deceived To be part of such a such a such a movement as I call it. I've been disobedient my entire life Okay, so about quickly. I mean, it's the same question, but you know the different dimension that there are several Words out there. It's a good thing that we have you here and we're asking Do you have any plans to collapse your structure? No You will never at any point in time. I might have people join a political party You know, what about your structure? I'm talking about your structure Plans for you and the structure that you are with down, you know to join all the structure I just said to you that it's not possible. This is a race. I will run into the end No matter the outcome the finish line. All right What kind of candidate are you what are you bringing to to the table this time because we're looking at the mode of an alternative, you know presidential candidate You should look to for you as one of those who are outside the top two of the big two as as it were What what kind of candidate chair will you be presenting tonight? well The cleanest break you can get from the past. This is very torturous In the past is the best way to describe it You have someone who's been consistently fighting for justice for three decades and Like I used to tell people I have scars to show for it So you don't need to ask, you know, I have history verifiable Documentary history and I have also stated clearly eloquently what Nigeria needs the solutions that we need to pull Nigeria out of the doldrums that we have been for since 62 years now and There's no doubt That you don't have to look for it what I represent and for those who might have need to research you can Be clearly told that I'm the only candidate in Nigeria today With the websites where I spelled out There the policies and ideas The rest of them don't have a website. Not that I know of, you know, some of them don't even have manifestos Okay, I would have said about stop talked about one, but I think recently yeah, so You know, so you can find these ideas completely Explained and broken down to the level of everybody But most importantly if you are looking for leaders with character in the next dispensation with integrity leaders with vision and Mission-driven leadership here you got one or parked into one because This is what elections are about. What's the ideology? We're very socialist welfare is that the people of this country must own their resources and their Worlds must be distributed to them. I don't want the Nigeria that continues on the part of what Oxfam said in 2015 an international NGO that five Nigerians are richer than 100 million Nigerians and Why is that is because only a few of our people Have access to the world of the majority of the people how you gonna address that would you confiscate and redistribute wealth No, it's not confiscation is investing people, you know We had the point now where universities have been closed down for seven months and The reason is simply because the priority of the government's empower is not education And if you invest heavily in education, you have redistributed. Well, because it's the most powerful and clear-cut empowerment citizens can get and That was the redistribute wealth But I must also state clearly that where it is clear that we need to nationalize Companies that were taken away from Nigeria By Nigeria's under shady deals We will take those countries back because what we've discovered about all the privatization That's been done most of it 90% of it is that we privatize sell and be load market rate To these individuals and we give them grants Allowances yesterday We had to give two companies or a few companies 16 trillion Naira words of tax rebates And this is not the first time you have you have the biggest corporate welfare in a policy Probably in the world But our citizens cannot afford to be given 1.2 trillion Naira to reopen, you know public universities You have an accountant general who could steal and take home 150 billion Naira But universities cannot get 200 billion Naira or their first strands in this 1.2 billion Naira Arrangements that had been agreed upon agreed upon since 2014 and you have 20 million of Kids out of school. You have no hospitus in your country. You don't have infrastructure. That is what? Anything so until that Reinvestment is done in those areas. You cannot redistribute wealth Regribution of what is not only We're really about letting the citizens own or belongs to them. All right. Yes. I have it by all right I really would have to access but in a few seconds. I mean, there's several factors that were looking out to shape You know the elections in 2023 and we've had issues of you know the beavers It was said that the best thing that this government has done is the electoral act and the introduction of the beavers It would be impossible to read but it feels like we're hearing different reports at this point and that's on the one hand We've also seen that some citizens have actually sued INEC over the fact that seven million persons have been unable to complete You know the voter registration I like to share your thoughts on this and what you think You know this would mean for the elections in 2023, you know, I think we always make this mistake With our verification of saying that one device will change The outcome of elections. It wasn't beavers. I think there was another one before smart cut. Yes Fingerprint reader did it work? It only worked for a few, you know months and then it became a liability It is the credibility of these electoral officers that matters the most to me and INEC right now is suffering from credibility it's people's or you know dominated by car carry members of a Major political party in the country the APC. I'm more worried about that than beavers Because beavers is going to be garbage in garbage out It is what is rigged that will still be uploaded to a server, you know What is important is to have people with credibility and this is going to take a lot more than just beavers It's gonna take real reorganizing our restructuring of our electoral body INEC, but what we do between now and election is to still in your case until we are guaranteed free and fair elections All right. All right. I'm afraid that's the much time of the fullest on the program this morning with you We should have more time probably talking about it with you But hey, this is the module can take a more leisure AC a presidential candidate of the African action congress He's been a guest on this first discussion right here on the breakfast and possibly ever. Thank you very much for your time Thank you very much. Look for just having you on set to win campaigns that kick up. I'll be back. All right, fantastic Yes, all right. We have more discussions up next right here on the breakfast Well, we'll take a break and when we return we'll be right back with the conversations on the breakfast. Please stick with us