 Today's episode of The Bitcoin Show is brought to you by MtGox, mtgox.com, and thankyoueconomybook.com, and memorydealers.com. Hey, everybody, and welcome to The Bitcoin Show. We are back, and today is Saturday. What is today? Saturday, November 26th. I don't even know. It's the Saturday after Black Friday, after Thanksgiving. Hope everybody had a nice Thanksgiving, and you're still enjoying your holidays. We're broadcasting live again, and as you can see right here in my lower third, you can send feedback now. When we're broadcasting live, you can actually send this live during the show, or afterwards, 24-7 anytime you want. Whatever you send, we'll comment on in the next episode. But if we're broadcasting live, and you happen to be watching live on onlyonetv.com slash live, then you can actually send an email or an SMS text message to me right now, and I'll get it right here. So, we can actually ask, you can pitch in a question, and we can ask our guest or comment or suggestion or correction or whatever, things like that. And for those of you listening and audio, it's the email address is feedback at onlyonetv.com. And the SMS text messaging number from anywhere in the world is plus one, of course. It's the USA number 646-580-0099, so I'll say that once more. Send us a message to 646-580-0099 and send us a message live during the show, or anytime in between shows, and we'll comment on it on the next episode, or email feedback at onlyonetv.com. So today, we've got an interesting topic. It's one of those intriguing aspects of Bitcoin that exists. So we're going to report on it. We've got a guest with us. His name is CoinJedi, as is obviously his nickname handle, CoinJedi, and he's the founder of Bets of Bitcoin. Welcome, Mr.Jedi or Coin, should I call you? It doesn't matter. CoinJedi. Hi. How are you doing? Good. How are you? Good. He's via Skype, but we're not using video up for obvious reasons. We're going to keep it a little bit on the down low. So that's one of the advantages of Bitcoin is that it can be as anonymous as you want it to be. Now, tell us about Bets of Bitcoin. By the way, it's a website, it's Bets, like B-E-T-S of bitco.in, right? Yes. Okay. So it's just Bets of Bitcoin, and there's a dot between it, co and in. With the dot, it's Bets of bitco.in, so it spells Bitcoin. Got it. Okay. I don't know whatever names. So first of all, how long has Bets of Bitcoin been around? So since August. Since August. Yes. Just August of this last year. Oh. So yeah. Okay. September, October. It's only three months. It's been just a couple of months. A couple of months. Okay. So and how did you, what is it? Tell us what it's about. So it's a prediction website, where you can make predictions of real, worthy, and ... Oh, we're losing your audio. Can you say that again? It killed my video to him, so that we can hear him. We're losing your audio, so he's going to try and ... Bets of coins on your ... Oh, you're all choppy. Hold on one second. He's going to stop sending video to you, so that we can increase our bandwidth a little bit. Uh-oh. Okay. All right. Now we can hear you. Go ahead and say that again. So it's a prediction website where you can predict any future events. It can be anything about politics or technology, Bitcoins, signs. So people put statements and put, take a site on those statements and put Bitcoins as a bet, and people bet against each other. They bet each other. Okay. So this is obviously gambling, and it's not legal everywhere, so we have to make that clear. Yes. You're able ... But the basic idea ... Why don't you just flip over here and show them what it looks like. Bets of Bitcoin. Here it is. The basic idea is bet on existing statements, earlier bets win more, submit new statements, submitters earn a commission, and here's an example. These are earliest deadline. Let me switch over here to highest bets. So here's some examples of some bets. The Butterfly Labs Bitforce SHA-256 single will not ship before January 3, 2012, and they're betting 100.10 Bitcoins that it will, and 103.11 that it won't. Is that what that means? It's the other way around because the statement is a negative one. So green bubbles means you agree with the statement and statement says it will not ship. And then the red means that you do not agree with the statement, however it's phrased. And then the deadline is a month out. Okay. Yes. Okay. So anybody can enter any statement that you want. You can say that it's going to rain on Friday. You can say anything you want. Yes. So somebody tried weather as well, right? And you can make any statement you want, and then anybody can bet four or against it. So when this says 100.10 and 103.11 Bitcoin, does that mean that that's what it will cost me to make that bet? No, you can't bet any amount, and it's just a pool. So people start betting on both sides, so it just piles up into the pool, and that's the amount you see in the pool. So you can just bet 0.1, and on average you'll get, at this point, if it ends like this, you'll get twice if you win. But the caveat is we put a twist in the betting, so earlier bets win more, so it helps to build up the pool. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's the pool. But obviously what you win is a ratio of what you bet, right? Yes. Yes. So what happens is on the Help page you can see that there's a scheme of how we distribute the winning bets. So let's say one side loses, and we pick those, and 45% of it is distributed just proportional to what you bet, and the other 45% is distributed with time weighted proportionally. So earlier bets gets more from that second share, and 5% of the losing bets goes to the person who initiated the statement, and we take another 5% from the losing bets. So we take only from the losing bets, so in total we get less than 2%. That's what you rake, what you take off the top. Yes. Okay. Now, okay, so let's talk about the legality. Obviously this is legal in certain countries and illegal in other countries and jurisdictions. I guess, is that true? Is that a true statement? I guess so, but there is currently no court order in any Bitcoin business, so I'm not sure actually, 100%. Because they may not consider it as real money. Right. Because if you're betting a cryptocurrency that's a virtual commodity, then it may not even be considered money. Yes. So it may depend on the country, there's certain complications. One of those areas is uncharted territory, so there's no case to determine it. Obviously there are jurisdictions where outright gambling for money is legal and other places where it's not, but this is all Bitcoin, so it's yet to be determined how they're going to view that. Yes. All right. Now, and it's only been operating for a couple of months. Yes. And you've got, Barack Obama will be re-elected 11 months in two weeks. I'm just going to read through these statements. These are interesting. And by the way, what is Butterfly Labs' Bitforce SHA-256 single? What is that? Is that a new card? It's a new advertised Bitcoin mining hardware, so a small company claimed that they have a very powerful, very low-power Bitcoin mining hardware. So they announced it and the forums just got crazy. Some people believed that, some people didn't. So a person created this bet and people start taking sides. Right. Yes. So yesterday, they sent some photos of the product, so it seems that they claim that it might be shipped, actually, but we'll see. Okay. So there's a theory and there may be some insider information that people from Butterfly Labs might be on here, too. They also claim that on the forums that they will not bet on their own success in any way, but we don't know. We cannot track it. Again, it's Bitcoin, right? So we can't hold them to that. But interesting, so, and this bet was just placed, like, a couple of seconds before we started taping, right? Because you told me, a new high bet. Is this the highest bet ever or no? This is the highest bet ever right now. But the thing is, couple of seconds we started, it was 100 to 53 and all of a sudden somebody put 50 bitcoins more in one side, so it's now 100 to 103. Wow. We'll see what happens. There's still one month to go and as long as there is no evidence of shipping to someone will continue this bet. And if we see any evidence that somebody received the product and it works as advertised, we will close the bets. Okay. That's going to lead to some more questions I'm going to have of you in a minute here. Okay. So let me keep reading. So as the bet continues, the pool will just grow and grow as people make more bets. Yes. Okay. I got you. All right. So the number here represents the total pool and then what you win is the ratio between what you of the winnings or something based on how much you bet. Yes. And obviously not a gambler, so I don't really understand that much about how it works. But I follow. Okay. So you want to get into the analysis, but I'm having fun reading the statement. So here's another one. Gold will be worth more than $1,900 an ounce at the end of 2011. Okay. It's 24 to 21. Wow. Close. What do you say, Ed? He's the gold bug over there. Is gold going to be worth more than $1,900 an ounce by the end of the year? Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So you want to bet on the yes side over here. Okay. So, okay. The next one is the Mt. Gox price of Bitcoin will be greater than or equal to $10 at midnight January 1st. Wow. I'm staying out of that one. I was making all kinds of predictions like that, you know, six months ago, nine months ago, and I was right on each of the dollar amounts pretty much. The one time I did predict it would be $10, remember, it was $9.99 before midnight that day. So I was pretty right on at this point though. I'm only connecting the dots on the lows of the price. So it's still up from a year ago, but you have to ignore the noise of the speculators. Okay. Bitcoin will be exchanged at a rate of over $30 a Bitcoin at the end of 2011. Wow. That's quite different. 30 Bitcoins to 1.7 says that's not going to happen. The existence of extra trust deals will be officially confirmed by the US government by the end of 2012. Wow. People are actually betting toward that. Rick Perry will be... Yeah. One person bet. One person bet 1.1 Bitcoin. Yeah. He just created the statement and puts 1.1 on one side. So okay. So these people that are betting against that, if it turns out to not be true, what are they going to win? Oh, they're going to divvy up that 1.1 Bitcoin. Yes. They just... They're going to split the pool of the 1.1 Bitcoin. Yes. Okay. Wow. All right. I know which side mine would be on. All right. So Rick Perry... I mean, even if we do discover them, I don't know if they're going to officially confirm it. That seems unlikely. Rick Perry will be the next Republican presidential candidate. Okay. Greece will officially default on its debts by the end of 2011. Barack Obama will be re-elected as president of the USA. Wow. Ron Paul will be elected president 4-2 basically says no. Greece will not be a Euro member on April 1st, 2012. This is fun just to read the questions and then read how people are betting on them. We have more statements to bet on. So these are just the highest ones. And if you do more statements, oh wow. So you've got... Yeah, we have a lot. A lot. The highest, lowest, earliest deadline, latest deadline, newest, oldest, oh my gosh. All right. So the earliest deadline are the ones that are coming right up. By the end of November, Mt. Gox Bitcoin price will be greater than or equal to $5. Oh, nobody's betting that that's true. Yeah. For example, yeah. Nobody's betting thing 4. So when that happens, we will just refund without taking any commission. Oh, you just refund it without taking any commission. Oh, got you. Yes. Okay. Now, some more questions. I will have fun all day reading these. To create an account, what do you need? Log in, register. I'm going to go ahead and go there. I just hit account, register. And what do you need? Just an email address or not even... Yeah, just an email address. Just an email address. And that will give you a Bitcoin address to send fast. Okay. So it asks me my username, email address, password, register, boom, and I'm done. Okay. That sounds easy. And then when I place a bet, you just, it gives me a Bitcoin address to send the Bitcoin to. You go to the page of that statement and you fill the box of how much you bet and you take a site and that's it. Okay. Okay. So I clicked on this one. Oh, here it is. So it's over here on the right. Place your bet here. Current wait time is, all right. So you need to log in to bet. Okay. Got you. And it shows you all the details. Total waited disagree bets. Wow. This is amazing. Okay. So each statement also has a description of details of how we will decide in various edge cases. And if something else that's not exactly stated, we'll try to use our own best judgment. So we are very free in the end. We are the arbitrator in the end. Okay. Yes. Yeah. That's what I was going to ask. That was my next question is, you know, if there's something really bizarre, like, is it going to rain in Central Park, you know, on Saturday? So how would you determine that? Yeah. So in those kind of statements, we asked the submitter to submit a website and link where we can just click on and read it. So they said that weather.com website is the main information. So or Wunderground.com, whatever. So you're not going to take an arbitrary, you're not going to accept an arbitrary vague thing like that, because it could be raining in the south end of Central Park and sunny in the north end. You want to tie that to say, okay, whatever, New York weatherradar.com is going to report that there was rain on Central Park or not. So you make it much more clear. Yeah. That seems more fair and easier for you guys to quantify. So do you guys, your staff there yourself, you have to determine whether this happened or not? Yes, we have to determine. So that's an interesting job somebody has. You've got to verify, first of all, you've got to verify that each statement that's submitted is verifiable or not. And then once it happens, you have to go and verify it. Yes. Have you ever had a... It doesn't really take that much time. No, I guess if you're... Have you ever had a faux pas where you, like, have you ever had a dispute or say that we're basing it on whether New Jersey.com or something and buy that a year from now and then a year later that site doesn't exist? What are you going to do then, you know? There has been one case where we got it wrong and that case we just refund the... You had to reverse it and refund, yeah. Yeah. Well, it points back. So... Interesting. So we did one wrong judgment. It was a small bet. We just refunded it. But usually it's pretty easy to judge. Pretty easy. As you can see, the statements, most of them are pretty easy to judge. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Interesting. So you can just put almost anything, almost any statement you want in here as long as it's verifiable and you have a link or something or some place that has to report it. That's amazing. Yes, verifiable and appropriate, so we don't, for example, accept bets on health and debt of people. Oh, that's good. That was another question I was going to have because I've heard that there are... So yeah, we got that a lot. Like, what happens to assassination markets and it's not part of our website. Right. Okay. So you're not betting on the... Well, you're not betting on an assassination of a president even? No. Nothing like that. Nothing to do with the life or health, not even health? No. So like in the case of we went back in time and before Steve Jobs got sick again, you wouldn't accept a bet as to whether his cancer would come back out of... That happened. People submitted that statement and we didn't accept it. You don't accept it. Okay. So that's a general policy. Life or death or health or well-being, I guess, health or ill health of a person you don't accept bets on. Are there any other categories of bets that you will not accept? Nothing so far. We'll judge as we go. Interesting. Wow. Can I ask how big is your team? How many people do you have that are managing this? We are two people right now. Two people? Yes. How many bets have been placed so far altogether? All right. Let's go and it's more like around 100, I believe. About 100? Yeah. Okay. Because it's just you're just like two months old. Okay. I see there's four pages. If I look at this category. So these are the active ones. There are also closed ones. Oh, right. Available, waiting, closed. All. Yeah. So definitely more than 100. I didn't keep track of the numbers. Okay. Well, are you making money? Not much. No. Just covers the server costs, basically, because we get a very small percentage of just losing bets. There's one more thing. It's just we also get a submission fee of 0.1 bitcoins when somebody submits a fee and we refund it if we reject the statement. Oh, that's if they, if you submit a statement, a bet, not a bet, but a statement. Yes. There's a submission fee of 0.1 bitcoin. Okay. Yes. Okay. But that's our free. I notice a lot of them seem to be political statements like who's going to win or run. Yes. So a lot of, for example, US election statements, we think that they will be getting or am more popular next year. So people want to put them early on. So it has an advantage. So first of all, you'll get a commission. And second of all, as I said, the early bets win more. So if you bet it now, you have a higher chance of getting more bitcoins back. Now what about this? Like, here's a statement that says there will be rioting in the US before the end of 2011, three weeks out. Now two questions. One, like, how would you document rioting in the US and define that it's so? Yeah, that's that's a that's a weird one. But we think that we'll just look for several newspaper articles that claims it as a riot for, for example, it happened in London. In London, it was pretty clear that everybody was claimed it as riots. And there was the Wikipedia article titled as London riots, etc. So if something like that happens in the US, it will be counted as a riot. So you count it required two or three mainstream media sources to call it a riot. OK, now it says before the end of 2011. Now here's a question, another one. OK, before the end of 2011, it seems that three weeks out is kind of arbitrary because that's not the end of 2011. So that's the end of the betting, the betting. So you cannot bet after that. So there are extra two days. There's the event date and there's the bet deadline date. So you cannot bet after the bet deadline and we will decide if the statement is true at the event date. OK, OK, so that's a perfect tie in because my question was going to be what happens in like in this case, what happens if there are riots before the betting period even ends? It's going to ruin the bet. When that happens, we stop betting and we can cancel bets after at a certain point if that's needed. For example, if we learn it late that actually the event is concluded, we can cancel it at a certain point and all the bets after that will be refunded and we will just calculate the returns of the earlier bets. OK, so you have to just find the exact date and time and minute that it was reported that riots were happening or whatever the first report of it and then roll back any bets that happened from that time forward so that you only count bets that came in before it was actually happened. OK, or maybe even a day before it was reported if it whatever. Whatever the actual event happened, I guess. Yeah, so we usually set the deadlines at midnight Eastern time. It seems that many of our users form our US, so we chose the Eastern time. Wow, OK. And do you ever have... OK, so you do have cases where there's zero bets on a pool on one side and then you just refund the other. Have you ever had where it's exactly even? But I guess that what happens when it's exactly even, 100 bitcoins on each side? So one side loses and we'll distribute that losing 100 bitcoins to the other guys. So it doesn't matter, the proportions doesn't matter when we are distributing it. It only matters like seeing how people predict how the crowd predicts the event. OK, OK, cool. This is so fascinating. I don't know why I'm so fascinated because I'm not really a gambler myself. I mean, even in Vegas, I don't even like to gamble. It's just whatever. But it's just so fascinating that people can... You can just make a bet on absolutely any statement you want. All right, well, you need to take a break just for a moment because we have to thank our sponsors. And anyway, this is just so fascinating because it's Bitcoin. Bitcoin enables this type of creative venture that you just try setting that up with PayPal. OK, well, we'll be right back. So we want to thank our sponsors who bring us the Bitcoin show to you regularly. And they are Mt. Gox, which is the world's leader Bitcoin exchange. If you want to know how to get involved in all this, you heard about Bitcoin, you've been watching the Bitcoin show and you're hearing about bets of Bitcoin and all these wild things you can do with Bitcoin. You wonder how do I buy Bitcoin and how do you use Bitcoin? By the way, the next episode we're going to tape is actually going to be a tutorial on how to buy Bitcoin and how to use Bitcoin. And basically, in a nutshell, this is it, Mt. Gox. If you want to get a head start on it, just go to MTGOX.com. Obviously, you can buy and sell Bitcoins from people in your neighborhood anywhere. You know, there are lots of ways to do it locally. But without even leaving your house and doing it online, you can go to Mt. Gox. It's MTGOX.com. And you could create an account for free and you can send money to them in various different ways. To me, the easiest way is just to click Add Funds and click International Wire Transfer. And it'll give you a page that you print and walk into your bank and just do a bank wire transfer to them. And then you're wiring it to them and their headquarters is in Tokyo. And if you're in the US Eastern time, for example, there you wire it to them on today's banking business. If it's a Monday and then by 9 p.m. that night, the banks will be open in Tokyo. So by the time you wake up the next day, it should be credited in your account typically. So it's real fast. And then you'll have US dollars in your Mt. Gox account. And then you can follow the instructions to buy Bitcoin. And that's how you buy Bitcoin. And you can actually use Mt. Gox even as an e-wallet. You can keep your Bitcoins there safely. They have two-factor authentication available. There's a thing called a UB key. Y-U-B-I-K-E-Y. I think it's spelled. And you can click on that and ask them to send you a UB key. And that's a little USB dongle, a tiny little thing you put in your key chain. And it sticks in your USB port and puts in a special password so that it'll protect you even if your computer was virus ridden. They wouldn't be able to get into your Mt. Gox account. It's brilliant. So we highly recommend Mt. Gox. You can buy Bitcoins with more than 16 different currencies now and sell Bitcoin back into those currencies as well. 24 hours, seven days a week, vast majority of the market share. There are other online exchanges, but Mt. Gox is the de facto leader by far. And we thank them for supporting the Bitcoin show and bringing us to you. And the new book by New York Times bestselling author Gary Vaynerchuk is called The Thank You Economy. And it is brilliant. And I'm not just saying that. I've been a fan of Gary's way before we ever thought of him being a sponsor. But his new book is really the Bible on how to use social media, the internet, all these technologies, Twitter, Facebook, and all that stuff, but how to do it right to actually promote your brand and your business. Everybody knows that they intuitively know to use social media or that they should be using it. But they don't have a clue how. And even those who are using it, I say 99% of them are doing it wrong. This book teaches you how to leverage these new technologies and bring us back to a day like your grandparents era when they had customer service coming from the local store down the street, real personalized customer service. That's what people want. And that's what these new technologies, that's the beauty of these new technologies of social media, et cetera, allow businesses to do small, medium, and large. It's scalable. So the book is the Bible on this. It tells you how to do it. You've got to read it. You'll see that we interviewed Charlie Shrem the other day on the Bitcoin show. And I didn't even know, but he's telling me that, oh my gosh, yes, he loves that book. And it's his Bible. So anyway, check it out. You can just go to thankyoueconomybook.com. Thankyoueconomybook.com and read all about it. You can even read an intro on Amazon and all that. Thanks, Gary Vaynerchuk. We really appreciate you. And memorydealers.com. Roger Ver, who you may have seen on previous episodes of the Bitcoin show, Roger Ver is a Bitcoin evangelist. He calls me, we hung out together when I was in Tokyo, and he calls me the Bitcoin evangelist and things like that. And I always tell him, I say, you know, Roger, if I am the Bitcoin evangelist, you are like Bitcoin Jesus. And so I kept saying that, and the nickname kind of stuck. So people have been making all kinds of images of a Bitcoin Jesus and calling in that. I think his girlfriend, he's into, what is it, Jiu Jitsu? How do you say that? And so he's into all these martial arts stuff and his girlfriend is gonna make one of those Jiu Jitsu robes with a big Bitcoin emblem on the back that get embroidered on it and then Bitcoin Jesus. That's what I heard. So we'll see if he got that done. But anyway, he is, Roger Ver is the founder and owner of memorydealers.com. And memorydealers.com is the, you probably first heard about them when you saw the billboard out there in Silicon Valley. And it says, we accept Bitcoin, P2P cryptocurrency. All right, that's how I first heard about memorydealers. I didn't know anything about it. But now I do. It's one of the largest retailers, online retailers to accept Bitcoin in the world. And they also have one of the largest inventories or maybe the largest inventory of optical devices for networking. They have router switches, fiber optic, all kinds of stuff like that. And they have Bitcoin mining hardware, as well as all sorts of memory and all sorts of other products. But anyway, check it out. Bitcoin, I'm sorry, I think Bitcoin. Memorydealers.com, I think of them one and the same. Memorydealers.com, they obviously accept Bitcoin. You can even buy certain varieties of physical Bitcoins for credit cards, PayPal, cash, whatever, through memorydealers.com. So anyway, just check out memorydealers.com and we thank them for sponsoring the Bitcoin show. All right, we're back. Coinjet egg, you there? Yes. Okay, cool. So let's see, what else, what else? So do you see continued growth in the number of bets, the number of visitors, the number of statements that are being proposed here? It does, especially the numbers of Bitcoins bet it are raising crazy. So we'll see how it goes. Yeah, I see, especially with the butterfly labs thing, the bit force, they're really, that's a hot and heavy bit. It started quite a controversy, yeah. So one interesting thing is when you have such a service, people start to use it over the internet. Before that, people say that you know, I bet $100 that this will not happen. And now we see that at some forums, people say that, oh yeah, like go to Bitcoin and we can make a bet and we'll see. Yeah, if you're really serious, then go there and make a bet and I'll go and make another bet and we'll see. That's true, you can actually, people in forums and online chat rooms and things can, they're all talk and they're like, I bet this is gonna happen. And you say, no, I bet it's not. And then you can say, okay, we'll put your Bitcoins where your mouth is, eh? Exactly, exactly. Okay. That's very interesting. Now what categories, I see you've got science, technology, politics, economics, entertainment, sports. Is there a certain category that seems to get the highest bets or the most bets? So economics and politics seems to be very popular. Yeah, it's a little bit about Bitcoin too. Of course it's Bitcoin. I was expecting sports might be popular, but it's not right now. Not yet, yeah, I'm sure it will be. Once the non-geeks, the non-Bitcoin geeks learn about this, you know, Bitcoin is very much about economics and about politics because Bitcoin, a lot of Bitcoin people are like liberty minded and they're about, also about economics and they're also geeks. And so I understand the technology, the economics and the politics would be very hot, but they're not typically sports fans, but sports betting is very popular, so I'll bet that will become big. Once the, once people understand, actually once the next episode of the Bitcoin Show comes out, when I teach people how to buy and use Bitcoin in like three minutes, I think that a lot more people are gonna get into Bitcoin and they're gonna see how easy this is to do and how fun it is. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah, now have you received criticism or complaints from anyone? There are people suggesting different things. They want different stuff. Some people don't like the distribution scheme. They want different kinds of betting. But overall, I think people are happy. Our users are happy. We have a couple of hundred of them right now. Mm-hmm. And they keep betting. What is your privacy policy about, you know, like if somebody gives their email address and they're logging out and all that is it, how protective of you are you of their privacy, their identity? Oh yeah, everything is anonymous. So when you go to, for example, the page of a statement, you do not see who submitted it, even a nick. So who bet it on it? We just give the numbers and the dates, that's it. So you just decide based on that. Okay, so if you're an American and you're in the USA, is this legal? As I said, I don't think there is any evidence for a gains at this point because of it's, based on Bitcoins. For example, I know that there are pure gambling sites that operate on servers in the US and nothing happens to them. I don't know what's going on. Our servers are not in US. Okay. And then if... But in general, I think from the forums, from the discussions I've seen, people think that for the users of the gambling websites, it's okay. There's currently nothing against them. Operating, there has been problems with the real money, like, I mean, dollars. Dollars, yeah. But for Bitcoins, they just operate, it seems. Nothing happens yet. Okay, so there's two kinds of gambling sites. There's ones, or at least, one is for US dollars and all the equivalents, PayPal, MasterCard Visa and all that. And the other is Bitcoin, and which is tiny, obviously, compared to that. So the gambling with US dollars sites, the government has attacked those sites and tried to shut them down and block their websites through DNS. And you're saying they've even tried to prosecute the operators of the websites, but they haven't prosecuted the actual users of the website to your knowledge? Yes, that's what I've seen so far. Okay, and then on the Bitcoin gambling sites, you haven't seen any activity trying to attack anybody yet. Yes. If there ever will be. Okay, because the question is still kind of hanging out there, what is Bitcoin? Bitcoin is not legally a currency. It's not issued by a government or a bank, so is it really money, or is it just Facebook brownie point widgets or something, you know what I mean? It could be... Yes, so there are websites that's allowed with what they call, quote unquote, play money. Yeah. I don't know if they will judge Bitcoin as a play money. Yeah, right, that's true. We have to see, we have to see. That would be very interesting, I think. Yeah, because you could, I mean, obviously somebody could create a gambling website that just uses pretend money that's all for fun, that's not money, and this could be deemed that just as well. They could say, well, Bitcoin is not really money. It's just digital numbers and digits and digits in a commodity form, whatever. So it's yet to be determined this is gonna be very interesting, by the way. Some day it will end up in court somewhere and they'll have to decide is Bitcoin just virtual commodity, virtual goods, like some kind of a Farmville commodity in a game, or is it actually gonna be considered money in some form? There has been a court like that in France with the empty Glocks account, I believe. So actually there has been a bet on it, but we had to close it because the deadline passed and nobody heard anything back from the court. Oh. But it seems that there's actually a court going on in France deciding the transactions between empty Glocks account to the banks and their bank account, is it legal? Do they have any kind of regulations, et cetera? So maybe we'll see something from France. Right, but even then that will only be France, not the US. And even if it's France, that doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of Europe. So it's, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, the future is- I mean, it's just starting right now that people try to understand and decide. The future is yet to be here. All we can do is bet on it. Right, come on. Okay, so- Just another twist. It's also a kind of a prediction market. And also from what I see, the prediction markets are kind of a little bit separated from the other gamut sites. For example, there is a university-run prediction market in US with real money. And there are internal prediction markets in various government organizations and some companies. So there's also that side, like it's prediction markets. Prediction markets. What's the difference between a predict- Isn't that the same thing where we're talking about a prediction market? Prediction markets means a very specific thing. You just buy and sell kind of stocks of events and it will turn into either zero or one in the end. It's like in-trade. So what people say prediction markets, they refer to the in-trade model, in-trade.com model, which is the largest prediction market right now in the world with real money. I think it's operating in UK. So what we call ourselves is prediction bet. We don't want to mix up that model. Yeah, I don't understand exactly. What's the difference between the betting on statements and a prediction market? It's real money that they're betting? You go to prediction markets. You, for example, buy a stock at $3 and you know exactly when the event finished, it will either be $10 or $0. These are the only two options that can happen. And the price of those stocks fluctuates between those two values. But the design of those markets is to make a prediction out of the crowd knowledge. So they are not designed to be betting. They are designed to get information out of the crowd. Oh, I see. So they're just asking people to guess, to predict what they think is going to happen. But they're not actually betting for money? No, no, they bet. They bet. They go and buy those stocks, basically. But the stocks will turn into money in the end. At a certain date, they will turn into money and it will be either zero or one amount, but whatever it's set. And you know exactly what you will get. But in this traditional old school kind of betting, there are only pools and pools can grow arbitrarily and you don't know exactly how much you're going to get in the end. It might be very much higher or lower than you expect at this point. That's the difference. Wow, okay. That's amazing. And you say they're operating in the UK or the US or both? I think UK, I think there are some kind of difficulties getting funds from US to intrate. I don't know the details. Okay, this is interesting. Well, bets of Bitcoin. It's all one word, bets of Bitcoin and you just put the dot before the IN. So it's B-E-T-S-O-F-B-I-T-C-O dot IN. Or you can just Google it as one word, bets of Bitcoin and you'll find it. Coin Jedi, thank you very much. We have to do this again. And after it's been several more months and see what the status is, maybe you'll be very rich by then. We'll see. Do you have any bets on here yourself? At the beginning, when we opened the site, we just put random bets around so that when people first coming in, they won't see an empty site. Right, right. Just to prime the phone. We don't do that anymore. We don't need that. Now you don't need to. Now you can just rake in the profits after you pay the electric bill. You can go and look at the closed bets and take the 5% of the losing bets and you'll see that the number is really small. Oh, so we can calculate your profit. So yeah, you can calculate it. One person can go and look at the closed bets and just add up the losing bets and take the 5% and they'll see exactly how much we get. Are you making enough to- So that's really transparent. Are you making more than enough to cover your costs? Barely, yes. Barely, okay. All right. Well- Just cover costs and advertising costs and so it just runs on itself. And I find it's a very interesting hobby. I really like to see people putting their money where their mouth is and it's very interesting to see how people predict the future and how confident they are of themselves, et cetera. So it is interesting for me to see that. I like that statement. Put your money where your mouth is, exactly. Well, thanks again, CoinJedi. Stay on the down low and say hi to Satoshi who's hanging out there with you. And- Yeah, my partner is Satoshi. Oh, your partner is Satoshi, cool. Okay, that's good to know. I'm gonna bet on that. So- For this website. Well, thanks for joining us. Let's do this again and until next time. All right, thank you very much. All right, take care, CoinJedi. And thank you guys for joining us again and we will see you next time on The Bitcoin Show. Take care.