 This week's episode is sponsored by Change. Change is an online mentoring program that teaches people with no experience how to create a real profitable online business and e-commerce. I have been working with Ryan at Change for a few years now and attended many events and got to meet the amazing community of like-minded people. These guys are the best of the best. The support these guys offer is personal, no bots or employees. There's no experience needed but like anything in life it takes time as it's a real business with real results. For more information go check out Ryan on Instagram at RyanGybe and he will guide you through the steps to help build a successful business. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. And boomerang, today's guest we've got a legend James Cosmo. How are you James? I'm great, thanks James. Pleasure to be here, it's lovely. I know, absolute pleasure to have you on. Like I said, living legend, you've Scottish kid, Clyde Bank to then being in the Highlander, Braveheart, Troy, Sons of Anarchy, Trainspot and one and two, Game of Thrones, the list is long and those shows, films are absolutely smashed that they're timeless and I still watch some of that stuff today. It's unbelievable to have you on. First and foremost, how are you? I'm very well, thank you, thank God I'm doing great, thank you. You look great. Yeah, I'm feeling good. And you're as fucking big as I'd imagine. I'll be a bit too big. I was just putting on these trousers this morning and I thought, geez, these trousers have shrunken, they watch or something, I don't know, that'd be right. But what height are you? I'm at 6'2", but I'm going down the way. You're shrinking? Aye. Old age? I am, I'm shrinking that way and getting bigger that way. A man of many talents, you've also got a wisk out that which will promote straight away. Is this your own? My own whisky in partnership with Anandale Distilleries, in the Borders, funnily enough. Very briefly, I started off, I wanted to get a whisky. When you're doing films or TVs or whatever and at the end of the show, you want to get people something and you spend hours in bookshops trying to think, what can I buy them? And I thought, be great to have a bottle of whisky and you say, that's for me, something special. So I've met the people at Anandale because they wanted to do an outlaw king whisky. So I helped them in the initial promotion of that. That didn't work out for that whisky for various reasons. But I met all the guys up there, David Thompson and his wife, Teresa, Church that owned the Distillery and became friendly with them. And so I said to my business partner, Andy Pancholi, why don't you contact them and see if I could do that? So he did. And it just grew. We realized, hang on, maybe my favorite whisky might be a lot of people's favorite whisky. So we worked with Keith, who was the master blender, Keith Law. And he had a really illustrious career as a whisky blender. That knows. And it took us about 18 months to two years to develop the whisky that I really wanted. You know, we'd have, we'd have 10 whiskeys now, that'd be down to three and then Keith would go away and do some more blending and things. And it was an incredible process. And eventually we came up with that one. And I have to say, I was up in Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago and they did a blind tasting of six really high-end whiskeys. But it was a blind tasting. And that one won every time. It's the most beautiful. I don't know how he did it, but it's just a phenomenon that it's just the most beautiful whisky. It's the easiest drinking whisky. It's lovely. Where can people get that? They can get it online. They can get it from Masters of Malt and we're just rolling out the distribution in the UK, America, China, all over the place. But it's a very fine whisky. Whisky's massive in China. It's incredible. Why is that? I don't know. I think it just must, you know, ring their bell, but the real aficionados of whisky and there's certainly a terrific market to be in. Fair play and good luck with it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Before we get into everything, I was going to go back to the start of my guess. Get a bit of an understanding about you, where you grew up and how it all began. Okay. Well, I was actually born in Dunbarton. My dad at the time was a water bailiff on the River Leven and the Chlomond, the Endric, all that around there. And that's what he was doing. He later became an actor. But when I was born, he was a water bailiff and we lived in Wallace Street in Dunbarton. And very early we moved up to Dalmure just at the edge of Clydebank there. And that's what I did most of my growing up, up a close in Clydebank. That was me. And then when I was about, I was eight and my father, as I said, had become an actor and he moved down to London. And my mum and dad, they'd been apart for quite a long time. Anyway, he was down there in London doing whatever he did. And my mum was looking after my sister, Laura and myself up in Glasgow in Clydebank. And one day, my father sent a letter or a phone or something. And he said, look, he said, I've got this part in this play. It was called Sailor Beware. It was a farce, right? And the lead actress was a lady called Peggy Mount. And she was like the biggest name in the West End. Everybody loved Peggy Mount. She was a big, loud woman. Anyway, they knew it was going to run for a long time. It ran for three and a half years eventually. So my dad contacted my mum and said, come down to London. So he sent her up some money so we could pay off whatever debts we had and all that sort of stuff. So my father thought my mum was going to take the train or probably the coach, you know, as you did in those days, all down the A1 to London. But she didn't. She went out and she bought the first day, she bought a gypsy bow top wagon. You know, the canvas cover wagons like that. She bought one of them. And then the next day, she went down to the fish market. Now, the fish market, why? Anyway, she went down to the fish market and she bought a horse, a gray called Bobby. And she got the horse and she walked it back home. And she put it in the traces of the wagon and she piled me, my sister and her best friend, Elizabeth. And we all headed off down to London in a gypsy wagon. And that took us about six weeks getting down all over the place. It takes about six weeks in a car. Aye. If you get stuck in the M6, it does. But that took us six weeks going down there. It was an amazing journey for a young boy. And then we lived in London for about three years. And then we moved back up for whatever reason. And my mum went to work in the Singer's sewing machine factory that was probably the biggest employer in Clyde Bank. And I went to school. And then when I was 15, I realised this isn't working for me. And I remember I forged the use of a national insurance card, you know, that gets stamped and all that sort of stuff. And I did a bit of jiggery pokery with writing and things and changed it. So I looked as if I was a year older. And I worked in pubs. And then I worked at Arnott Young's, The Shipbreakers, which was like the Kenzian. It really was. It was like, you know, these loury paintings, you know, of these people walking to factories and things. It was horrible. And I went and I worked there for a bit. Less than a year anyway. And I thought, God, I can't do this. It's just, you know, this is not life. It's just awful. So then I guess I was about 17, something like that. So I just buggered off and went to London and thought I'll go down there and see what happens. What were you like at school? Pretty dumb. I think people in their life have a time when they are open to knowledge. And sometimes they're not. And I wasn't. My head was away somewhere else. And I could say that I regret not having a terrific education. But life took me in a different path and I got educated in different ways. And now in my later years, I'm, you know, I've got a huge interest in lots and lots of things. But at that time, I just wanted to be out in the world, you know, like a life of studying things. It just wasn't for me. I was always, you know, I was in a group called the Shifting Sands. I was the lead singer. God, I've seen photographs of it. It was really embarrassing. But, you know, I was always, I always loved, no, yeah, I loved being out there, doing my thing, enjoying it. You know, I was always a bit outrageous at school. I was the one that dressed a bit funny. And, you know, I was a wee bit different to people that wanted to go on a more acceptable path. But I knew that wasn't for me. Just I knew it my bones. I couldn't, I couldn't do that. You know, I couldn't go and work in an office. I couldn't spend my time in a shipyard. I just didn't want it. I wanted something, something more different, something different. You always have that feeling because it's the ones who are kind of creative. The ones who sit in school and stare out the window, not be asked with books because that's not a life either. The programming from a young age to four to 16 university and following the system. It's good to break free from the system because your prime example, you've traveled the world, you've been in some of the best films ever created. Like, that's what people need to understand just because your grades are shy to school. You're sitting doing exams for a few years and that can define people's lives because they don't think they were good enough. Now, you said earlier you were done, but you're not because you've clearly succeeded in life. People can look to you for inspiration and go, wow, how did he do it? Because like I said, if people are doing exams for three, four hours, or a couple of days and getting other results, that ruins people's lives because they don't think they're good enough. And that's a sad reality. Yeah. Did you always have that inner belief that there was something more out there? Yeah, I thought that the hubris of youth, I thought I can make a success of this. And the one advantage I had was that my father, although he was very much a working actor, that he did whatever came along, that was it. But I had the advantage that I knew that a career in acting, it wasn't all, you know, premieres and beautiful women. It was months of not working, of not getting a job. And the one thing I learned was stickability. Keep on going. If that's your dream, if that's what you want to be, just keep on going and do whatever you have to do to keep yourself going. And young actors talk to me sometimes, you know, like, have you got any advice? I haven't got any advice for anyone about the art of acting, because it's a very much an instinctual thing with me. You know, that character comes to me subliminally. You know, I don't study scripts and do research and all that sort of thing. I know that somewhere in the back of my head, my subconscious is thinking about that and working it out. But I certainly don't, you know. But the one thing I can say to them is that if you're, you know, a male or female actor, it doesn't matter. But never think that when you're working in a pub or working on the roads, as I did a lot, that that's not of benefit to you as a young actor. Because it is. It's giving you life experience. It's you watching people. It's seeing how life works, how the dynamics of characters work. And one day, you'll be able to bring that to a performance, maybe not a specific situation, but that knowledge of how people work, how people interact with each other. That's really, really important. And you don't get that in drama school. Yeah. When did, what was your first other part? It was, um, it was an episode of Dr. Finley's casebook. And I played, would you believe, a choir boy. So that, that was, that was my first part. How was that feeling? It was, it was incredibly exciting, incredibly exciting. And but I, I couldn't, I couldn't walk in chew gum at the same time. I was just terrible. I was awful. And Bill Simpson, who was, who played Dr. Finley, it was a Dr. Finley's casebook was a really, it ran for about 15 years, I think. And the actor, the main actors, the regulars, and it were Bill Simpson, Andrew Cruikshank and Barbara Mullen. And it was about a doctor in the thirties, you know, and the mining village and all that. So wonderful. It was a wonderful series. And those three were so kind to me, so generous, you know, and they, you know, they sort of guided me along, you know, and they were just lovely, lovely people. And so that gave me a great, you know, my goodness, I've actually been on television, you know, and before my mom said, I'm going to be on TV and all that sort of stuff. It was fantastic. How old were you? I was, I might have, no, I was 17, 17. So young. Did you see your dad struggle? Yeah, a lot, a lot. Yeah, I used to see him, you know, I'd go and see him and he hadn't worked in six months or whatever, and the tax man was after him and just the anxiety of that, you know. It was, it was, it was hard for my dad, you know, because, you know, if you're a, if you're a painter, an artist, you can go and paint. You can be like Vincent Van Gogh and just paint and paint. And it doesn't, you know, your paintings don't sell, okay, your paintings don't sell, but you can still do what you want to do. You can still do that thing that drives you on because you need to paint the same with the musician. If nobody is hiring you, you can still sit in an attic somewhere and play the violin or play the piano or compose something. You can still do it. As an actor, you have to have that whole crowd of people to be there and for someone to give you that job for you to walk in front of a television camera or a film camera, you need people to do that. And that's, that's the lonely bit because you're at the mercy of, of fate. Are you going to be in the right place at the right time? Who knows? And for most actors, most of the time, you're one of the out crowd. You're not in the in crowd. See, seeing your dad struggle, did that give you the strength or some sort of inner belief to then stay consistent because you know how hard it was out there and it gave you a better understanding of the struggle? I didn't go in with any illusions, none at all. I thought this is, this is going to be hard. So you're going to have to, you know, when you, when you get the chance, when it appears, you make the very best of it. Have you always had that presence though? Because when you come in, you light up a room, you've got a great energy. Sometimes when I do interviews, they can be draining. I feel good around you, like a good present. Oh, that's lovely to hear. Thank you. Have you always had that as well, where you've had the big smile and people go, I like him because that must go along with me because you see actors, you see anybody in life and you go, he's a fucking wanker. Tell me about it. You've got that presence where you've got that leakability factor. Does that help with being an actor additions or does that not come into play? I don't think it can come into play that much because as you say, there's a lot of people out there you think, oh, what a tosser, you know, they're still out there, you know. But I think I was, you know, when you say, oh, I was born and I lived in a tenement in Clydebank or whatever, you know, as if, oh, poor you, you know, you were born, you know, your mum worked in a factory, you know, poor you. Not at all. I had the most privileged upbringing ever. Somebody that was born in a country house and went to eat and didn't have the privilege of my upbringing. They didn't have because I lived in a community that was a real community. It was fantastic. We could go out and we played in the streets, you could shout for a jelly piece. Somebody would give you something. Some wind would fly open and a jelly piece would come flying out the window for you, you know. It was a real community of hardworking people and people that valued people that worked, people that tried to educate themselves for the sake of education. It was wonderful. And I think that instilled in me, and my father and mother instilled in me the belief that there was nothing wrong in being ordinary and just being one of us, you know, no other graces, no, I don't have a particularly high opinion of myself. I'm just the same as everyone else that I was lucky and I took advantage of that luck and look where I am, you know, but I've no illusions about myself as a person. How much rejection is it you have to go through to be an actor? Tons, tons. When I was young, you'd go up for 10 auditions or in those days, you often met the director to talk through a part or whatever. So you would do that and you'd go away and, you know, you'd wait for the phone call from your agent or whatever. Doesn't come, doesn't come, and then you'd phone your agent and they say, oh, no, that didn't happen, you know. And that's like, it is a, you know, maybe you, maybe you were too tall, too short, too fat, too slim, wrong color, whatever. That doesn't matter. It's a rejection for you, you know, like you feel I wasn't good enough. And that's a tough one to keep on keeping on. But you've just got to believe in yourself and say, well, whatever. Lots of people don't get chosen, but one day I will. What was your first break through? It was a film called The Battle of Britain, and I just turned 18 and I went up to meet them and it was an American guy that wasn't the director, Guy Hamilton, but casting director or something. And they cast me and that is flying officer Jamie. And I was all the way through the movie, you know, and it was fantastic. It was like, it was like a dream. I can't tell you, James, it was like, you know, we were on these airfields and hurricanes and spitfires were flying around and I got to meet guys that actually been in the Battle of Britain. I used to drink with a guy called Ginger Lacey, who was a British air ace. And he must have been, I thought he was really old, he must have been these maybe late 60s or something, you know, which is a youngster to me now. But we used to drink together. For some reason, we became friends, you know, and I spent a lot of time with him and he told me lots of stories, some funny ones, some tragic, horrible ones. But it was just amazing to meet people like that. And it was a long, hot summer, the same as the Battle of Britain. And I met so many famous people. I was, when I did my first scene, they called me and I'd been waiting around for about four weeks. And I'd get used to just sitting out and getting dressed and sitting out in the sun. Then at lunchtime, they come up and say, you're not going to be used. And I'd go off and that was me. Then one day they said, you'll be on set in half an hour. Oh, Jesus. And there it was with Christopher Plummer, the late Christopher Plummer. And so all these things happening in the background and troop convoys and planes, and they were on radios, right, ready to go, ready to go. And I'm getting more and more nervous. I'm like, oh, dear God, if I screw this up, you know, they're going to have to write everyone back to number ones, you know, it's going to take all day. Anyway, we got through it. And it was just before lunchtime. And I was walking back to the coach to take us to the lunch place. And I always remember it was a long wheelbase white Mercedes convertible with red leather upholstery. Like, whoa, the bar looks beautiful. And Christopher Plummer's sitting in the back like this. And he said, James, he said, where are you going? I said, oh, the one of the assistant director said, I have to go on the coach to go back for lunch. And he said, get in here. I said, no, he said, get in the car. And I get in the car with him. We drove around, not to the lunch place, but we drove around and there was a lovely marquee, small marquee sit out. And he said, come on, have lunch. And I was like, this is Christopher Plummer, you know, like, what? And I walked in and it was that was the, the catering place for all the big names, you know, and Michael Cain sitting there, Trevor Howard sitting there, Robert Shaw was there. It was just like, I can't believe this. I just can't believe it. It was fantastic. What was Michael Cain like? He was lovely. He was very nice. We drove in the car to some location or whatever. We did something. And he was, he was ever so nice. I don't know if he said, well, now he's Michael Cain. I like to think he might have done. He was a legend and he's a legend as well. He certainly is. He certainly is. Did you look up to any actors and try and inspire a bee like them or were you on your own journey where you wanted to just be you? Yeah, I was on my journey. I mean, I've learned a huge amount from actors that I've worked with, you know, in the past. And now you're always, you're always learning. But I think not so much in the actual performance, you know, as I was saying before, that's more an instinctual thing with me, you know, and if, if, if that's how I play it, that's, that's how I play it. I'm not trying to be anything else. I take anything. It's just what comes out. But things that I have learned, you know, like I'm trying to be as professional as you can be, you know, like never give anyone an excuse to think that you weren't doing the very best you could, you know, like, I'm sort of, I shouldn't say proud, but I'm happy to say that I've never been late for anything ever because there's no excuse in the industry for being late. You know, the easiest thing in the world is to be on time, be there and be ready. That's, yeah, that's important to me. See, when you're getting called back and you're getting, you're moving through the ranks, when was that moment you realised I'm doing it? You're feeling as if you're doing your passion. Did that, did that come at a young age? Because you were getting these parts 17, 18, you, you were kind of young when you started off, was there a moment where you thought, okay, this is it? I think I'm still waiting for that moment when, you know, I still think I'm kidding on. You know, that, as we were talking about earlier, you know, you think, you know, I'm just me, you know, what, what, in post-history, absolutely, you know, I'm just me, what people think I am. It's, it's not really true. When did the Highlander come? Was that 1986? Ah, something like that. Yeah, yeah. Because that was a massive movie. Was that one of the biggest you had done in your career? I wasn't in it that much, but the, the great thing was that Highlander, it really broke the mold a little bit, you know, because Russell Mokahi, the director, had come from pop videos, mainly. That's, that's what he did. And so he brought that whole idea of the camera moving, you know, because in a pop video, you've got, what, three minutes to, to, well, the atmosphere has got to be there, bang, like that. And so he was used to that camera moving and then Queen's music as well, you know, it was just something else. And it was, it was a terrific experience to be involved in that. What a brave heart. What was, what was the, how did you get into that film? Um, well, I was, um, uh, my son, Ethan, who's just sitting there, um, he had just been born and my wife and I, my wife, Annie and I, I'd, I'd been out of work for a wee bit. And we were staying in this one bedroom apartment in Twickenham. It was a nice one bedroom apartment, but we didn't have any furniture. So we'd borrowed a sort of rocking chair from Annie's mum and there was a TV and with a futon, um, you know, on these Japanese beds in the, in the bedroom and Ethan slept in that as we did, because I always believed that children should sleep with you. That's just one of my things. Until they don't want to sleep with you. I think that's natural. Anyway, um, he was, he was there and it was a, I met Mel Gibson about four, five months before for a general meeting, you know, I'd gone up to meet him and, uh, I remember he said, uh, hey, uh, I'm Mel Gibson. He said, uh, do you want to drink? Yeah, I know that he doesn't drink or he didn't. And I said, oh, hi, certainly. You know, so he bought me a drum and we sat and he said, what do you, what do you think about this music, uh, for like a Scottish film? And he played some sort of harp stuff, you know, and we spoke about that for literally five minutes and then I was gone. So that was like, you know, okay, maybe one day or probably not. Anyway, I was out in my head. So it was Saturday night and, uh, the treat of the week that Annie and I had was a carry out curry, right? I'm a big curry fan. I love, I'm from Glasgow, of course. I love curry. Um, but, uh, we had a carry out curry and there was no stream. Uh, maybe there was, um, blockbusters, whatever you call it, you know, we got a film in and it was 20 to 11 Saturday night. The curry had come about half past 10. So it was already, I was like, oh geez, I'm starving. And, uh, uh, we're just about to watch this film. So the phone rings. I said to Annie, if that's my, my best powers, a guy called Dominic, Dominic Burke, God bless you so. Um, but I thought it was Dominic calling from the old anchor pub to see if I'd come up, come for a late pint, you know, the last pint. I said, that'll be Dominic. I said, just say, I'll, I'll see him tomorrow at lunchtime. But I just want to have my curry, you know. So Annie said, yeah, she's sure. And she lifts the phone in there. You know, it's like a house phone. And she says, hello? Like that. I says, yes. All right. Uh, would you just hang on? I said, I'm going to eat my fucking curry. Don't. And she went, she said, I smell Gibson. I went, oh, don't be something, fuck's sake. That's that Dominic. He was a terrible practical joker. I said, was he? And she put the phone down and she went into the kitchen and shut the door. I thought, what are you doing? Anyway, I lifted the phone and I said, hello? Like that. And he, this boy said, uh, hey Jimmy, it's, it's Mel. I went, oh, I, who is it? And he went, uh, it's Mel. Uh, Mel Gibson. And I went, I went, uh, hi Mel. And he said, hi, he said, uh, I've been watching, uh, your show reel. Uh, and he said, uh, the character of Campbell, you know, the father. Uh, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. He said, I love you to play the father. You know, you got to play old and then when he's young, you know, uh, and I went, all right. He said, would, would you like to play Campbell? And I said, uh, yeah, I'd love to Mel. He went, uh, great. He said, uh, I'm coming over. I'll, uh, see you next week. Goodbye. I put down the phone like that now. I always, I always, I remember where the clock in the house, I looked at the clock said 20 to 11 and I thought, boy, this changes everything. That was it. Did you know, did you have that feeling? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I knew that when I read the script. When, you know, yeah. Yeah. One of the greatest, one of the greatest films all time. Yeah. The bias cause of maybe Scottish, but there was just everything about it. The actors, the mad Irish, being a hara, David, a hara. Fantastic. Fantastic. Just in the department. And he's a lovely, lovely guy. A great, great friend of mine. Yeah. And, uh, just, it just seemed to make sense. It just from, and I've watched it fucking hundreds of times. Yeah. You know what I mean? I get my kids to watch it and see. Yeah. Great. But see when you, how long were you out acting before that call? About six months or so. Was there any moments where you thought about giving up before that call because of the sun coming and no money and struggling? Yeah. Do you always believe? No. Cause I was, at the time I was at a friend of mine, Ian Black, who had gone to Clydebank High School, but he was, he was, he was a tough fucker. He was a real, he was a bit of a lad, but he was very smart as well. And he'd gone into, I think he worked for Heinz and then he went into pharmaceuticals, generic pharmaceuticals and he'd done ever so well. And he was running a company out in Harlow and we were in contact and things and I think I said, geez, you know, I'm struggling a bit. He said, well, well, he said, come and work for me just as security. He said, but I'm going to put you in this, like if we're losing any pharmaceuticals, this guy's under anyway. He was, he was just bugging me a few extra quid. So I was used to get up in the morning and drive around the M25 to the M11 and then up to Harlow. It took about an hour and three quarters every day, but I'd drive up there, but I was, I was getting money, you know, like I say, I didn't care, I still wouldn't care what, what I had to do to put food in the table. So no, I knew, you know, I'd been out of work for a while, but I was still earning money. I was still, no, I don't believe in taking anything that you, you know, take anything from the state. I'll go out and earn my own money. So I was okay, but I'd never had the, even the inkling of the idea that I'd give up. I wasn't going to give up. Of course I wasn't. Zim, you got the script. Did, did you know that Mel was going to play? Yeah. Did you know? Yeah. What were you thinking then? Well, the reason behind that was that Mel wanted, he said that he'd read the script. Could it been around for two or three years, you know, doing the rounds of the studios in LA and no one had picked up on it. Mel had read it and thought, yes, and yeah, interesting sort of idea and all that sort of thing. But then he said something he just thought, yeah, I want to direct this, but he really just wanted to direct it. But he went to the studios to get the money, which was, I think it was about 84 million, which was a pile of dough in those days. The one thing they said was, well, yeah, you can direct it, but you've got a star in it, because that sort of guarantees that they'll make their money. So that was why Mel played it, you know, that he was going to play Wallace. How was that for him to direct, act, produce, just do everything? Really tough. Yeah. Yeah. I remember seeing him when we were doing some ADR just shortly afterwards, and he was just wrecked. He was completely exhausted, because he'd put everything into that movie. He ran just about everywhere. He'd jump in the horse, do a bit, run back, look at the monitor, back on, back on again, just like long, long days. And he was right, because Wallace is in just about every scene in the film. And he tremendous energy. But yeah, it was an amazing effort. And I think it was wonderfully directed, although he was very wise, because he got the DP, the director of photography, was a guy called John Tall, who was like, this guy has won about three Oscars already, you know. So he's got the best cinematographer in the film industry. And then his master stroke was, he employed a guy called David Tomlin, who was a first assistant director. And I had known Dave for yonks before that, many, many years. And he was, he was the best first assistant in the world. You know, I'd been first assistant on Gandhi, Indiana Jones, all those, he could cope with that. And so to have that team behind him, Mel had made a really wise decision, you know, because if you look at a scene and you say to a guy that's won three Oscars, how do you think we should shoot this? Well, you would take his advice, wouldn't you? And so that was a, that was a really good move. But the one thing that stuck out with me with Mel was that because he is an actor, that he understood the process of acting and the anxieties of actors. It's quite intimidating to be on a set where you've got 3000 extras, you've got, I don't know, two, three, 400 horses, you've got all that going on. It's like, you know, it's a huge movie. And then the camera comes in on you. That's a bit intimidating. So for example, when we were doing my death scene, it was just after lunch. And they said, you know, and it's like a, it's an emotional scene for myself and for Brendan Gleason that's playing my son, you know, all Campbell's been chopped with an axe and he's, he's fading away, but he wants to pass this message on to, to his son and to Wallace and all that sort of stuff. So it's a big, big set of scene, big emotional scene. And we were walking, Mel and I were walking to the set and he said, Jimmy, he said, can you tell me the cheapest thing on this set? I said, the cheapest thing? No, I've got no idea. And he said, the film and that camera use as much as you like. And of course that means if I want to sit there all afternoon and do that scene 24 times as some people have done, that was fine. That was fine with him. That afternoon was written off to do that scene. That's fine. You just carry on. And of course, there's no pressure. And of course you relax and you do it in three takes, all done. That's it. But that's psychology of a director knowing the, the, the pressure that an actor is under, you know, especially someone who isn't, who isn't a big star or whatever. He's just an ordinary guy. You know, yeah, that's a lot of pressure. Let's take it off. And I remember David Lien who did, you know, Lawrence of Arabia and all those fabulous films. He had the same thing. He said, my most important job is to make those actors feel comfortable in that space that they're in. What about the make-up knack? Because the make-up knack was brilliant. How long did it take to get your make-up and stuff on? It was the, I can't, I can't remember the make-up man's name. He was a lovely guy. And he had an Australian hairdresser who was a guy again, who was, who was very funny. We used to have, it was great in the morning, you know, because you'd, you'd put your costume in and you'd come on. If it was a battle scene, they would be putting on the blue stuff and all that and my wig and things. But I remember that the, the hairdresser, Paul, I think he's Paul. When I first went there, he said, James, I'm going to have to catch your hair, you know, for the wig and things. And I went, yeah, yeah, he was a bit sort of frantic, you know, I went, yeah, yeah, that's cool, you know. And so you know that way that old-fashioned barbers used to do the scissors, they'd be going, like that, and he's got the hair like that. But he's talking away to people. And he's going, yeah, we'll go tonight. And I'm sitting for fuck's sake, you know. Pay attention to what you're doing. And he's going, oh, yeah, that'd be lovely. Yeah. And shall we do that if he's doing this? And then this big clod of red hair drops my lap and I jumped up and went for fuck's sake. What the fuck are you doing? Of course, he'd get a big hank of costume here like that. He was winding me up like that. He got me like a kipper. So that was, that was always great fun. Yeah. Did you have to learn to ride the horses? Oh, well, I had ridden horses in different shows before, but Braveheart was the one, Tony Smart was the horse master. And I love horses. I've got a deep and abiding respect for them. I think they're beautiful animals. And I went up to Tony Smart's and just outside London. And he's, they brought the horses over from Spain. They were all film horses, which meant that the Spanish film horses are fantastic. You know, they're bomb proof. They're very biddable. They'll be, you know, they're just beautiful. And they said, this is your horse. He's called Orjitas, which means little ear. He was a chestnut with a white blaze. And he was, James, he was like a Ferrari, you know, like you'd get on him. And all you had to do was squeeze, just ask like that. And he didn't trot, but he'd, he'd just walk. And then he squeezed and he'd just go into a really gentle canter. And you squeeze him again, he'd go into a faster canter, squeeze him a wee bit more. And he'd just gallop. And then, no matter where it was, you just lift your hands like that in the rains. And he would just sort of four wheel braking. And he just made sure you were safe. He was the best horse I'd ever ridden. And I became really, really fond of him. See the freedom scene when they done the speech? Yeah. Did you know how powerful that would be? Not before we saw it, because we were standing beside the camera watching it. And it was just, here's in the back of your neck stood up, you know, it was, it was magnificent. How many takes did that go? I think he only did about three takes on it. And different angles as well. So, yeah, it was, it was amazing, you know, and it sort of makes you think of that Henry the fifth speech, you know, you know, we happy band and all that, you know, it's amazing. But I've got a, I've got a theory about why Braveheart was so popular all around the world. You know, you would think it was a film of it, people fighting for the independence of Scotland, which it was. But the main core, the main drive of that film is about something that I care deeply about. And that's individual freedom. And I think when, when he talks about that, that we will not be cowed by bigger entities than us, that freedom is the most important thing. It's the most valuable thing that each and every one of us have. And that needs to be protected. And I think that had resonance all around the world in every country where people said, yeah, yeah, being free is the most important thing we have. Yeah, see, when they came out and started showing their ass and their willies in that, was that planned? Oh, yes, from the start. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because it portrayed the Scottish as Scottish, just mad bastards who don't bend or break and willing to fight anybody, no matter what it takes, if they believe in something. And that's that, listen, for an American, he played the fucking part, brilliant. Absolutely. An amazing part. Who else could have played it? Yeah. Who else? I can't think of anything. Did they have anybody else's name in mind? No, I don't think so. No. It was Mel Gibson's film from start to finish, and I agree with you. I think, you know, like, there might be people that say, oh, his accent was great. And you've got to remember that if there was any slight, which I never spotted really, but, you know, the only critics are a few people in Scotland, the rest of the world go, yeah, it's the character that matters. It's not particularly, you know, was it pitch perfect in every degree? It's the character that he played. The music. And he did it beautifully. Yeah. The music. Yeah. Unbelievable. I still listen to the music when I'm out and about, and I still get the shivers on my back. Yeah, you do. It makes me want to go and fight. You know what? I'll tell you when we went up, it's a story anyway. Story, man. I was, when they were having the premiere of Braveheart, it was in Stirling at the McRoberts Centre. And then the party was at Stirling Castle. And I was shooting this film called Emma, down in the West Country. So a couple of weeks, they'd said, oh, the premier's on the Sunday. And, oh, God, so I got in touch with my agent and said, listen, I really want to be at the premiere, you know. And so she said she was talking to the production team at Emma. And they said, oh, we've booked in this scene in the strawberry fields and you're right in the middle of it. And it's all been booked and we can't change it and things. Ah, jeez, you know, I can't go. I said, oh, man. And I phoned I and my wife and said, look, it's not going to happen. You know, we're not going to get there. She was great. You know, she said, oh, well, that's the business, I suppose, you know. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, it looks like this, you know. And I was doing okay at the time, you know. And because I, you know, I get well paid from Braveheart and things. And I said, no, oh, it looks. So I phoned Danny again. I said, book a private plane to fly us up to Glasgow. So the car can pick us up from Glasgow and take us to the Premier. And then, well, the same plane has to wait at Glasgow Airport and we'll fly back to Fair Oaks. We'll fly back there to this little airport. And then I'll get driven down to start filming in the Monday morning. I just, you can't do that. What if I say, no, we'll just fucking do it, you know. And if I can't, well, I've fucked up, you know, but I'm going to go to that Premier. Anyway, we go to the Premier and that is something else. We like sturdling. It's never, they've never seen anything like it. James, there was like four deep in the streets, people just going nuts, you know, and I'm thinking, I'd never been to anything like that. Like, what is going on here? You know, and we're going out, we get out the cars and people are, oh, it's amazing. So we go in and the mills there and everybody's there. And the lights go down and the film starts. So we watch the film. The lights come up at the end. And all the great and the good from Scotland are there. You know, all the sports stars, the politicians, everybody and anybody that's well known is there. And I look around. Not one of them wasn't crying. Not one of them. Oh, it was amazing. So then we go to Stirling Castle and we have this amazing after show party. There's because it's all themed on medieval stuff. So they've got ox roasts and they've got jugglers and fire, you know, people that do stuff with fire and all that sort of stuff and acrobats. It's got everywhere. The whole castle, it's just unbelievable. So it comes to like one in the morning. And I'm half squiffed by this time. And he says, we've got to have to go. I went right, say Chibio de Mel. So I go over, say Chibio, find Mel, say Chibio. And we get in the car. We're driving back to Glasgow Airport. And I was like, that was great. It was terrific. And the driver is long before mobile phones and things, but the drivers get one of these phones in the car. You know, the big bricks that used to be. And she's got one of them. So we're driving back and I'm feeling great. You know, this is good. It's all working out. And the phone rings and the guy lifts it. He says, oh, he said, is it for you? I went, who's died? You know, like what's happening here? So I lifted the phone and this guy says, oh, it's some Strathclyde police here. I went, oh, what? He said, it's okay. He said, do you have a plane leaving Glasgow Airport now? And I said, yes. About half an hour away or 40 minutes away. He went, right. He said, would you be willing to transport a human heart down to London? It's a for a transplant. And the time is, you know, in those days, it was like really time was of the essence, you know, and I said, yeah, hi, yeah, sure, sure. And he went, right, okay, just stay on the, the motorway or whatever we were. And about five minutes later, two police motorcycles, blue lights, it was like something beside us, you know, and then this ambulance pulled in behind us. And the guy went the cop went off, we went to Glasgow Airport, never so fast in your life, pulled straight onto the tarmac. The plane had been the guy, the pilot had been sort of heads up. He had the engines running and things would get straight on gone. And we were down in about an hour and a half or whatever it was landed. There was a ambulance set of police outriders. And this big yellow, Annie and I sat and there was this big yellow, like a cool back, you know, a cool chillback box in between us with some poor soul's heart in it. And we landed and the box kept taking away gone. And often think if I hadn't said, no, bollocks, I'm going to go to that, that, um, premiere. Well, maybe someone wouldn't have got the heart and time. Did you ever find out who it was? No, what a story that would have been one of because you weren't going to go and then you've saved some kinds of life. Yeah. Yeah. They might hate the Scottish as well. You never know. You're saving his life. I'm mad. Yeah. The fucking phone dropped me a draft map of heart. I wonder who's heart that was. I know. Unbelievable to find out. Yeah. Yeah. But you just think, well, that isn't that interesting that fate goes, no, that, that heart needs to be there. Everything happens for a reason. Yeah, it does. See a couple of those scenes in Braveheart when they're talking about making the spears will make the spears longer than men. Yeah. And somebody says, but some men are longer than others. And you say, has your mother been spreading stories about me, son? Well, that was that. Was that all scripted? Was that all planned? Was that all scripted? Yeah, that was scripted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What about when a horror came as well? And it says, I think you oppose a knife out and you say to him, um, you're a mad man. And he fucking says, I came to the right place. He played, he played a fucking phenomenal part, the mad Irishman. Fantastic. I tell you, David Ahara, when, when he's on song, my goodness, there's not many better actors than him. He's extraordinary. He was in the department and that is unbelievable. So after break, did you realize? But you know, the, the one, like we are talking about key lines in the film, do you remember the one for the, the, my character gets shot in the chest with the arrow and they're all going, Oh, I'm not going to take it. You know, the hot poker bit, you know? So Mel, it was, we're filming at night and Mel said, he said, Hey Jimmy, what would you say if someone pulled a fucking arrow out of your chest? You know, I said, that'll wake up in the morning, boy. He went, use it. So I, I wrote that line. Although I never get paid for it. Again, because they passed the hot poker stick to some of the other stuff I used to have in the heart. You punched the cunt. What a fellow man. And it deserved every fucking attribute. I get deserved every award that got him. I was just about to ask you something like that. Something crazy. Did you go to the Oscars? No, no, it's not my thing. Did you get asked? I think I did. Yeah. Yeah. See after that film, did it change the game for you? Oh, yes. Yeah, it does. Because you know, like, like the film industry is, it's a bit sort of simplistic, you know, if you've been in a big film, then your sort of rating goes up a wee bit higher and people think, well, if we hire him who's been in the success and him, that'll make our film a success. It's just, yeah, but then just that's where it works. But then Trainspotting, that must have been, was that a couple of years later? Yeah. Yeah. Again, another mega film. Yeah. I'd worked with Danny Boyle on a, he had been the head of BBC drama in Northern Ireland and he'd done this, it was a really good, I think it was called like Play for Today or something like that, but it was called The Night Watch. You know, the same as the big Rembrandt painting. And it was about these mercenaries who were waiting in Amsterdam to go to Africa and then all tons of shit and there's a big, you know, bloodshed and all that sort of stuff. So I was playing one of the mercenaries and Danny directed it. And so I'd worked with Danny before and I knew, you know, what a stellar director he was, you know, something else. So when he phoned and said, I want you to meet whatever the producer's name was of Trainspotting, I went along and yeah, that was it. I wanted to play Renton's dad. Did you know back then how good Danny Boyle was as a director? You know, you can usually tell in the first day when you're on a set with somebody if they're okay and you can also tell if they're absolutely stellar and he was. Because I know Arvin Welles, he's a good friend and he wrote the book and see when you got the script for it. Did you know again that it was going to be as big as what it was? No, no. I didn't know if a film like that would, would, would translate to the American audience and, and the greater English audience really, you know, because of the accent? Yeah, because of the accent, because of the, the, the, the, the social groups that it, that it was about, you know, you think you would think maybe, well, maybe this film would, it would do well as an arts house film. You know, it'd be of interest to people that were really into movies and all that sort of thing. But will it, will it be a huge mega success? No, probably not. That bloody was. And that was mainly due to, to Danny. All the boys. And the script. All the boys that kicked on from that. You and me, Greg. My goodness. Bobby Kalio. Everyone ended up Hollywood actors. They did. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. How was Bobby to work with Kalio? Oh, he's fabulous. He was what a part he played. Oh, standout. Standout parts. Mad Baster. Oh, absolutely. Do you know these guys? I know people like that. Oh, fuck, I, he must have knew people like that. Of course he does. They played that part. Yeah, yeah. Because they played it to perfection. They did, aye. But everybody made it. Again, do you feel that there's not one just carries a film that there's got to be that team effort? Yeah, yeah. There's a, you know, one should never think that, you know, that my character or my performance is the one that's going to make the film. If you're not backed up by everyone, that's why you should always appreciate someone in the same movie as you are, the same scene as you, being absolutely terrific. You should never feel threatened by that. You should feel grateful for that, because he's going to make you look great. You know, to work with someone that's a truly wonderful actor is, it's a great privilege. And, you know, you should never feel that he's a danger to you or he's stealing the scene or whatever. Nah, not at all. Let them get on with it. Is this when you felt your career was, it made sense for everything you've done through the years, the working, not working? And then, was that your, you kind of thought, okay, this is that? Yeah, yeah. It was, it was, it was certainly a huge high point of my career. It was, it was amazing. And I knew that, that it would have, you know, you're saying about train spotting. I knew that. I remember sitting with Randall Wallace, who wrote the movie, and we were sitting in Neri's bar in Dublin, because most of it was shot in, in just outside Dublin on the car and all that, all the battle scenes, because we had 3,000 of the Irish territorial army, that's who the extras were, who were fantastic, really wonderful. But I was sitting with Randall, I remember saying to him, I think this is going to have a huge effect on politics in Scotland and Britain anyway. Nah, it's just a movie. I said, I don't think so. And I think it was right, you know, for good or bad, I think it was right. What was Troy to work on? It was, it was great, it was great fun. That was a big blockbuster as well. Yeah, we filmed in, in Malta, and then we all went over to Baja California, which is just over the border into Mexico. And it was nice then, I believe you, you get shot every day down there now, you know, drug cartels. Perfect. But in those days, it was okay. And Ethan, my son, just one son at that time, they flew over. So he spent the whole of his school holidays in this luxurious complex and things. And it was, it was fantastic. What was Brad Pitt like? He's, I didn't have spent a lot of time with him, but he, we had a couple of evenings and he was delightful, absolutely delightful. And his family, his sister and his mum were there. And they were like really ordinary folk, you know, and, and yeah, it was, it was wonderful. But the, one of the loveliest things was that Peter Toole, obviously, was in it, and he was quite elderly at the time. And I had met him when I was, you know, when I spoke about being down in London, between eight and 11. And I used to hang about with my dad sometimes. And he used to drink with Peter in the, it was a pub in Amsterdam. I think it might have been called the flask, I think, but it was just opposite, you know, this beautiful big house in Amsterdam. He and Shan, what's the name, lived there. And so I used to get my dad, give me a ginger, be in a packet of crisps and outside, while they get plastered inside. And so I sort of met him when I was a wee boy. Anyway, one of the makeup guys on the, on the show had said to Peter, he said, do you know, his father was an actor. Anyway, so Peter says to me on the, he said, you know, you know, James, he said, I can't stand American television. He said, it's such bollocks, you know, he said, so my son sends me videos of my favorite programs. And I went, oh, that's a good idea. I thought, where's this going? You know, and he said, well, he said, last night, he said, I was watching one of my favorite, you know, I love this, but it's called Dad's Army. I went, oh yeah, Dad's Army. Yeah. He said, well, he said, I was watching an episode last night. He said, and never guess who was on it. Who was a guest actor on it? And I went, what, my dad? And he said, yes, your dad. And I cried and cried and cried. I thought that was lovely. Yeah, it was nice. It was real good pals. Oh, were they? Yeah. Yeah. My dad had passed away. I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. Was Colin Farrow in that film? No, he wasn't, no. Orlando Bloom, was it? Orlando was in it. Orlando, one, another guy with the black hair, I'm thinking. Eric Banner. Brother. Yeah. Yeah. Some big actors in that again. I used to have a lot of fun, because you know, the costumes you used to wear, leather, skirt and things, and all these guys playing big heroes, you know, and swords are prepared, a tough guy, you know. I used to stand behind them and just pull the hairs out the back of their legs and they'd go, oh! Yeah, it was great. I think Orlando was a bit feared of me, pulling hairs out his legs. Because he ended up working on Game of Thrones, which I think is the most watched TV show of all time. Well, it must be up there, yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Because I was doing Sons of Anarchy before that and I just jumped straight from Sons of Anarchy to Fluor to Belfast to do Game of Thrones. Two mega shows. What's the difference from the film scene to the shows? Do you find it better doing the shows because it's longer income, more money and more time? Or is it better doing the films? I think the big TV shows like Game of Thrones, they have that ability to really go into storylines and things. In fact, they're quite happy to do that because it stretches out and there's more income made there, you know. And you get a better chance to develop characters, you know. Making a movie even if it's two and a half, three hours, you've only got that to tell the whole story. Boom, that's it done. And that's a really, it's a real art form to be able to do that. But when you're in a big long running show, it's pretty cool to do that, you know, to work for eight months in a series, you know. What was Sons of Anarchy like? That was great. That like throttled as well. Although I thought my agent phoned and said, they want you to come over and do a season of Sons of Anarchy. What do you think of? First thing, Sons of Anarchy, right? You think tattoos, cool, bald head, absolutely. Harley Davidson, yes, I'm up for it. What do I end up playing? A priest. I've got a priest. That's all I got out the fucking thing. But he was a great character to play. A great character. Because he was, you know, like, he was a man of God, but he was also the head of the IRA, people killed all that sort of stuff. So I really enjoyed it. And I loved working with Charlie Hunnam and Ron Perlman. They were great guys. And of course, Tommy Flanagan, old Chibbs was in it from Braveheart. I know Tommy. Yeah. Oh, he's an old thing. Another great actor from Milton Glasgow. I speak to him a few times. I think he's in America now. Yeah. He's coming on the podcast. He was supposed to come on a couple of years back, but all the lockdown shit he couldn't get. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another great actor. Again, he was a great guy. Because he didn't want to try. I was glad he did. I was glad he did. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel as if you're getting picked for those roles, kind of mad bastard, kind of violent swords? You do sort of, you know, like, whatever you, any, any actor, you tend to get corralled. You know, if you're, especially if you're, if you're playing a character in a sort of medieval swords and sandals and horses and all that. Well, the next time they make a sword and sandal and horses film, they're going to look at you right away. You know, so you tend to go down that route. But as I've got older, you know, I think I, you know, he surely can't be a warrior at that age, although that's not true. Game of Thrones as well. Like I said, I think it's the most watched show of all time. Yeah. Did you know how big that would be? No, because we did the first season in Belfast, or my bit of it was done in Belfast. And then I was out in LA doing something. And that sounds too late. Anyway, I was there. I was doing, they asked me to do some ADR, you know, this voice dubbing on Game of Thrones. And David Benioff and Dan Weitz, the two guys that had written it and produced it, just young guys, you know, in their thirties. But they were there at the ADR. We spent a morning or a day doing that. And I remember standing outside having a fag. And I said to them, you know, do you think we'll get another season out of this? And they actually said, I don't know. We just got to wait and see. Maybe, maybe. And I'm thinking, oh, please, that'd be great. Wow. Nobody knew. Nobody knew. How could you? How could you not? I don't know. Some people get a feeling like you said, and you've got brave heart, you know, but the train spot and Game of Thrones. Yeah. It's mad how life can just show you. Oh, you've done the right thing, like you say. There's people, because I like to look at some actors who've rejected some film parts because they think, oh, shit. And if other ones have kicked on in one Oscars and done that, was there any parts that you rejected that you kind of regret? I don't know if I've rejected any parts. You know, if they pay me enough money, I'm there. No, not really. No, I mean, there's films I'd love to be then, you know, but no, I just take what comes along, and if it's a nice part, I'll say, yeah. You know, rejecting is like, you know, no, that's not my kind of movie or whatever. No, I don't do that. I just see what the character's like, you know. And to be honest, I've always enjoyed working on a variety of films, you know, like, it's not like I want to be in bigger and bigger and bigger films. I mean, don't get me wrong, the money is very important. Money is very important to all of us. And it's terrific. If you get something, you think, wow, I'm actually getting paid a lot of money to do something I love. But that's not really the criteria in my life as long as I've got enough to be getting on with. I really love working with young filmmakers, you know, on much lower budget movies, because as you get older, I tend to sort of feed off their enthusiasm. You know, I see the love of what they're doing, you know, the excitement that they've got making a film, you know. And that gives me a little bit of excitement. You know, I remember what it was like to be young and thinking, God, we're going to make this fantastic film. And oh, God, that scene was terrific. You know, sometimes you don't really get that in a big movie, you know, it's like a big business machine happening. You've got to turn up and you've got to have your game face on. Don't screw it up. Just do the job and walk away. Do you still get that? Obviously, with a brief heart, you're buzzing and you want to go at the premiers. See, when Game of Thrones popped as well, when it became the biggest on the planet, did you have that feeling or does that kind of fizzle? When Game of Thrones went as massive as we did, did you have a feeling of a good feeling of because you're so used to it now? It doesn't feel the same. No, no, no. I've done plenty of films. You go, that should have been a success. It was shit anyway. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it was great. I was very happy to see that the incredible work that they've done. And I think one of the main things was that George Martin's books, they really did justice to those books. And that's a hard thing to do, to books that, especially those kind of books, where a lot of the fans are really into that and they would pick up on anything that was wrong or different or not true to the characters. But they were, those guys, I think it's because of a huge fans. Both of them, David Benioff and Dan Wise, were huge fans of the books and they wanted to translate it perfectly into that. And yeah, it worked. Is it just the same, see Philip Braithart, it's all violence and swords, Troy, then Santa Claus and Narnia? Like, is it the same kind of set up on the same day? Or is it more child relaxed because it's a kid's film or is it still as stressful? No, it's all, you know, it's, you know, when that camera starts working, that's dollar bills flying through there. You know, you don't want to be the guy that costs a lot of money. So it's still stressful, but the persona is obviously completely different. You know, like when you're doing, you know, like a battle scene or something like that, you've got yourself cheered up, you know, and you're kidding yourself on that you're a tough guy and all that sort of stuff. But then you go off and you play Father Christmas, you know, and it's, it's a different feeling because you realize that, you know, when they, when they did that Narnia thing that he wasn't Father Christmas, wasn't like the Coca-Cola Santa Claus, you know, the red and the cheeks and the white beard and all that stuff. Oh, he wasn't that, you know, he was, he was the spirit of, of, of midwinter, but he was also the spirit of hope and things were going to be better. And if you just get the tools and you use them right, it's all going to work out. You know, so he was a really warm, compassionate, he just symbolized love and faith and hope. And that's, it's a real privilege to play a part like that because you know that your audience are going to be children and they're going to be watching that. And I just felt how lucky am I to play a character like that, that little kids are going to look at and go, golly, that's Father Christmas. And it's beautiful. And you know, when I was, I can't remember, I was back in, because we shot that in New Zealand and I was only there for about three weeks or something. Anyway, when it came out, I can't remember, I was doing, I didn't have a great big beard or whatever. But I was, I was in Waitrose at the cheese counter. That shows you how posh I am, Jen. Moved up the ladder. That was at Waitrose. At their cheese counter, which is not cheap by any means. Waitrose and Martins and Spencers, when you know you've made that. I know. Hi. So I'm standing at the cheese counter now. I was, you know, looking at cheese and I sensed, you know, that way you can feel somebody looking at you, you know, and I looked at, there was a wee girl, she was about eight, maybe, something like that. Her mum must have been somewhere. She said, I went, oh, like that. So I looked at her, she said, I look back and she said, Other Christmas aren't you? And she crept off, obviously to tell her mum that Father Christmas was at the cheese counter. So there's a girl who's about 30 now that's someone in the back of my head. I know of it, Father Christmas was at the cheese counter. Probably in some fucking mental institution. Was there any parts like you said earlier you wish you would have had, or you thought you could have played that part to a T? No, not really. No. Because I think you sometimes look at a, I'll tell you a perfect example. My favourite piece of television, I think it's, it's astonishingly good on so many levels, is through Detective Season 1 with Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson. I think it's the best piece of television of that genre that I've ever seen. The performances, the writing, the direction, the music is just perfect. And I remember going up and the, my agent said it's this thing, through to after what it is. But it's playing this guy who puts on sort of English voices and he's actually American, but he's a weird guy. We didn't know much about it, you know. And I went up and he just had a couple of pages and I read it and I didn't get it. But then when I saw the show and I saw the guy and the guy did a terrific job. I couldn't have been anywhere near him, but I thought how cool that have been to be in the show that you later think that's the best piece of television I've ever seen. But it didn't happen. But again, you know, that guy did a fantastic job. He was perfect for it. And, you know, you like to think I could have done that. Well, you know, maybe you could. But that's, you know, subjective. What makes a good actor? I think the willingness to open your heart and your soul to that character and not to be afraid to show the deepest of emotions. No barriers between you and the camera. It's just going to be from there to there. That's, I think that's it. How hard is it to bring emotion to the camera? I think that the better written the part. Not the easier, but the more apparent that character is. I did a film. It was a one man film that seems terribly arrogant. It was, I met this guy called Jeff Thompson. Now you will know Jeff Thompson. The karate guy. And mad. And the rest. One of the biggest killers on the planet. Great guy. Love Jeff. He's a remarkable, unbelievable story. Yes, it is. It is. It's extraordinary. Anyway, that's interesting that you know Jeff. Yeah, he's been on the show. Has he? Yeah. Unbelievable podcast. Oh, Jesus. From what he's went through as a kid. Yeah. The pain, the struggle. I think it was the bouncer. That's right. Yeah. The doorman. The doorman. He gave me his books, but Jeff's story was he was abused by his sensei or his ma or something. I was to teach him and couldn't abuse them. But Jeff ended up training himself to be one of the biggest killers on the planet. He became a doorman in Phillip violence and Hayden rage. He calls it the parasite. Parasite kept getting bigger because they never faced it. So he became an eighth down or a ninth down in the scene. He's abused her in the red in a cafe. But this guy's been planning and killing this guy for years. And he kind of froze with any approach to him. And then he kind of took his power back and then since then he kind of flourished in life. He wrote so many books. I think he's bathed. He's one bath does. Yeah. Unbelievable man and unbelievable podcast. Jeff. He contacted. There's a few months ago as well. I think he's got a new book out. Oh, great. Well, I met Jeff, the two directors. They may seem brothers. And they'd wanted to do something with me. And they said that Jeff had wanted to do something with me. And it was a low to no budget movie. Right. So I met with Jeff and we met at the Soho house, you know. Anyway, I don't really suit the Soho house. We started off with tea in the afternoon. I think we were there for about eight hours. We're just talking to each other, just talking about and the conversation get deeper and deeper and deeper. And he was talking to me about his life. And I was talking to him about my life and the anxieties and the traumas and everything. We just opened our hearts to each other. It was extraordinary. Eight hours. So flash forward to about six months after that. And I was filming in Tenerife. Annie and the boys were with me. I came home one night from filming and there's an email from the Schmacy brothers with an attachment of this film called the Pyramid Texts. So they said, would you read this and get back to us? And so I started to read it. I got a third of the way through. I had to stop. Too too much for me. This is awful. Not awful. It was just emotionally. It was like, oh, Christ. So it took me three, I read it in three bits, eventually get through. It was like a boxing match. I was just exhausted reading it. I was just like emotionally drained. I thought, I can't do this. No, I couldn't. No. So I went away and I worked a few days in the film and things this thing back in my head. And then I thought, maybe it's one of those things you've got to say, no, I've got to do this. I can do it. You've got to do it. So I put some stuff on. I did an audio thing for them about how I thought it might be. I did an American. It's about a film about an old boxing trainer. He comes in, we shot it at Repton Boys Club. He comes into the ring and he sets up a camera like that and sits down. He's sitting in the stone in the middle of the ring. He starts talking stuff. And it's just 94 minutes of him talking to the camera, talking to whoever, what he's going to leave behind. And yeah, so it's a long thing. And Jeff had written this incredible script, just incredible. But we're talking about how hard is it to get into this emotional thing? Well, there's a scene or there's a part of the film at the very end. And it was like, it was like a train coming down a tunnel. I knew it was coming. I knew it was coming. I knew all this horror was coming towards me. But you just had to wait for it. And because it was so beautifully written, and it was such an intimate thing, it just came like that. There he is. See, when you do that and bring that emotion or see that even in films, I know people can go down that route of Daniel Day-Lewis and the method of kind of lose their self. See, when you've had a mad day and you see like killing scenes or violence, can it play an effect on your night when you go home? Yeah, yeah. I remember doing a thing called Silent Witness, you know, the Alicia Fox, you know, a forensic scientist about dead things. Anyway, they asked me to play this serial killer who abducted and tortured and killed young girls. And I remember I went, okay. Now, I remember I said that I didn't do any research. I don't know how a serial killer, what, what, I don't know anything about that. So I got through a friend of mine. I met two detectives. One was retired and one had retired and they brought him back because he, they were, that, that's what they did. You know, if somebody had killed someone and they thought, hang on, this was just the first one or whatever. These were the guys that, that could get them, get out of them. You know, they psychologically, they were very informed on what a serial killer was and how to operate that. So two separate meetings with them. And in both of the meetings I asked them, is there something like a hook that I can hang on to? I said, what is there about a serial killer? And both of them said, nothing, nothing. They said, he can be quiet and meek and tiny and frail. He can be huge. He can be aggressive. He said, you cannot tell. You just cannot tell. It's just one thing in there that's different, but they could be any person walking down that street, any male walking down that street. Come here. I thought, fuck, that's not a good thing. How, how, how am I going to find this guy? Anyway, you know what I was talking about? Subliminal things. You know, you have a great belief that your subconscious does so much more work than your conscious brain. You know, that's just like a fucking frog. But the subconscious is doing all the heavy lifting. Anyway, I've read this script, read it a couple of times, and I think it's getting closer and closer to start filming. And I remember phoning Christian Solomeno, who's a very close friend of mine, an actor, a young actor, or he's not young now, Christ, he's nearly 50. But anyway, I phoned him and I said, I've got no idea who this character, I don't know who he is. I've got no idea who he's accent or anything. I'm fucking filming it in the morning. And I don't, I know the lines and everything, but I don't know who the character is. So I turn up in the morning. I'm still like, what? I go into the makeup trailer. I'm really early. I go into the makeup trailer and he's been caught and he's been interrogated and all that sort of stuff. So I'm sitting there, I'm talking with a makeup girl, you know, and she put, I said, could you put on some like prison tattoos, you know, like rubbish things, you know, just like dots and things like that. And then I had a beard like this. And I said, could you put extensions in the beard and maybe plait them? Because I was thinking, you know, when you get banged up, all, everything is taken away from you. Any freedom is taken away from you. So you have to find something where you can say this is me, you know, so I can touch it. I can do that. You know, I can make myself look a bit weird with with plaited beards and weird stuff. And I was looking and looking and I swear to you, this character just walked into my head. He just fucking walked in like that, like a, like a fucking ghost behind me. And I knew his accent. I knew everything about him. I knew the latent violence. I knew his intellectual prowess. You know, he was obsessed by Milton's Paradise Lost. You know, he knew it by heart, the whole thing. I knew how deeply his brain had gone into this weird fucking world. So for two weeks, I played that character and it took me a couple of weeks to get away from him till he fucked off out my brain. Because I watched, was it Man on the Moon? I think it was Jim Carrey, played Andy Hoffman. He was close to getting kicked off his set because he'd done the method thing where he became him. They became so annoying that the producer couldn't do smashing up shit because he just went right into character before following, during following. And I got mad. He went mad, Jim. And I think maybe when, when you have, maybe it's because maybe actors in a way do not have a, or a lot of actors don't have a very concrete idea of themselves. You know, they don't, they're not like, this is me. You know, this is how I am. And that's it. Maybe we're a bit more fragile that way, or a bit more open. And when something comes along that's very powerful, like, you know, when Daniel Day-Lewis played Hamlet and, you know, was so deeply into it, he saw his father and he never worked on stage again. But maybe we make ourselves available to, to much more powerful characters that we're playing. And that can be dangerous. Yeah, that is dangerous because I know a lot of comedians and they're all fucked in the head, every single one of them, every comedian I know. I love them to bits, but on stage, there's something else. After stage, the kind I lost. Yeah. Yeah. Do you see that with actors as well? Yeah, I do. I do. Not all actors, but, you know, you get actors who they are. John Wayne, you know, that's John Wayne. He doesn't play anything else. He just plays that. But people that really act and inhabit characters. Yeah, I can see them. You know, that's why a lot of them drink so much and, you know, behave in strange ways. Maybe it's because their, their character isn't, you know, as solid as it could be. Yeah, because the brain's a powerful tool, we know that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. If you're creating, the brain doesn't know what's real or what's fake, so if you're creating certain things that it can mentally scar you, did you struggle after that part a couple of weeks? Just for a couple of weeks, you just thought, I wish I didn't keep thinking about that, you know, and seeing the things, you know, because he clipped her thing, you know, pinch her things with kids fingers. You know, I want a shower, you know, I want him to go away, you know, and it did eventually, yeah. How do you handle nerves? Badly, if you don't have nerves, that's a really bad sign for an actor. You know, if you're not, if you don't get that, hopefully it's just butterflies in your stomach. That's quite a pleasant feeling, you know. It's, it's not having nerves, it's not anything that you can say, I now know how to control this, because every time is, it's brand new, you go, oh Christ, I'm so nervous about doing this, but when that camera starts rolling and they go action, it's those nerves that go and become adrenaline and you give a performance, you know, if you, if you don't have that, if you are so relaxed and cool, you know, you're not going to give the performance you should do, you need that adrenaline, you need that thing, and it's not specifically showing it, but you need your, your body to be, to be tingling with anticipation of playing that character. What's the longest scene you've ever done? Oh, it have to be the Pyramid Text. Ninety-four minutes. Just talking to a camera? Just talking to a camera, but you know, when you're talking about nerves, when I started on Troy, we did a few days in Shipperton, this big set is a big temple, you know, and it was full of, the Trojans were shouting some fucking, anyway, there was a full of people, and Eric Banner was there and Peter Atul was there, and I've got this speech, but I can't remember, but Troy, I'm working the fuck out of it, anyway, I'm, oh dear, I'm in a terrible state. First day, you know, like huge set, you think, oh, I really need this, it's all a bit intimidating, you know, so we do it, and we do the scene, and we break for lunch, and I'm walking back, and Peter Atul's walking beside me, and I said, oh, I said, Peter, I can't tell you how nervous I was this morning, and Peter said, Christ, he said, you are fucking nervous, I thought, you're Peter Atul, you've won Oscars, and all sorts, he was as nervous as I was, that's just the way it is. I love to watch the bloopers, and I'm the kind that goes to bed at night, and I'll put on the bloopers, and I'll just, I like to see people fucking up, I'm just doing it and laughing at it, are there any times where you've just lost it, and you just let go with a laughter? Many times. Corpsing, I mean, I'm really scared of corpsing, because once it gets hold of you, whatever the fucking hell it is, it just, oh dear, it just grabs hold of you. I remember, I was doing Roughnecks, which was set out in the North Sea, and there was this scene, where we're doing, you know, you do one bit outside the room, and then the reverse. So the reverse is me, and Ricky Tomlinson is there, and I just open the door, and all the guys are outside, and I say, it's sorted. That's all of it, that is simple, right? We've been doing it for ages, I was so relaxed and things, it was fine. So they say, right, action, and I'm staring at Ricky, and just before I started walking, Ricky went, open the door. I'm sorry, sorry, can we go again? And Ricky says, sorry, no, it's fine. Action. They had to cancel the filming for the day. I could not speak, I couldn't speak. I went, I was just opening the door, and I was just crying all the time, and that's, because people get annoyed, they think, no, come on, be professional. So that's why I'm frightened of it. I think it's amazing that, because back in the day, when you're at school, and his teacher's just a shout, tell you to shut up, my head would just fucking go. I would always get put out, because it would last 10, 20 minutes, and then I would think about it the next day sometimes, and I'd think, fuck me. I was watching the snooker, like I farted. And it's so immature. What were the players? No, when something is wrong, Judge Trump was just about, and he farted, and I couldn't just don't fucking, and I felt like a child, I felt like a baby, and then the players started laughing, and then I would go again, and I had to keep being angry at somebody farting. That's wonderful, I love that. Yeah, yeah, I did a thing, I love, you know, farting is awfully funny, can't be awfully funny. And I was doing this thing, it was, what was it called, soldier, soldier, and I'm playing the Lieutenant Colonel of the regiment, and he's been court-martialed, right? And it's a really serious scene, so you've got all these officers there, and I'm playing this officer who's been court-martialed and things, and I just got one of these, you know, these electronic fart machines, right? You've got a wee button, and then you've got the box, so the box in the back of my trousers pinned on there. So I said to the director, I said, you see, because I'm making this speech to the court in my defence, and it's written, men have been shot and all that sort of, oh fuck. I said to the director, you see when you've got this, when you know you've got everything you need, I said, if I nod to you, can you say let's go again? He went, yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. So I've got the thing, so we've done this scene, it's all done. And they said, I went, you went, right, well just go one more for safety on that, please, I went, right, okay, so I've got this thing, man. These poor fucking actals. What a terrible thing to do to people. I said, officers of the court. And I could see these guys going, I said, I was like, in my defence, I would say, and they give all sorts of different farts, you know, like little ones, big ones, and I did the whole scene, and these actors, they were just dying, they weren't dying, I could see all their eyes were red and filled with tears, and some of them were shaking. The sound man is going, and then when they said, cut, look at that, the sound man went over to the director, that was great stuff. It's good, because there's a lot of pressure on actors, a lot of people don't realise like the 3AM call times and the craft that goes into, it's hours and hours that goes into that craft, and it's good to, because when you see a film and you see a series film, but then you see them laughing at the bloopers, it kind of just goes, it's wonderful. Who's the greatest actor you've ever worked with? Ever worked with? Oh, James, that's a really difficult one. I would have to take that on advisement, James, I'll send you an email. That was so hard. There's none that stick out, I mean, actors that I wish I'd worked with, like Peter Finch, people like that, Jesus, what an actor, just fabulous, fabulous actors, but there's so many of them, and I've been hugely privileged to, you know, Pat McGuinn, what a fabulous actor, what a fabulous man, it was a privilege to work with him, to be in the same film as him. Your dad must have been proud of you? I don't know. Why? I don't know, we didn't get on too well. Oh, dad, he's not? No, no, that was a bit of a dick, you know. Did he join the club? Yeah, you know, like you do lots of things wrong, you go down that path and people lose, you know, trying? Yeah, just, we just didn't go on that great, which is a shame, but he was of that age, he was that type of person, you know, he was a fighting man, he was a tough guy, that's just the way it was, you know. Back then it wasn't. I think if he's looking down on me now, he'd say, yeah, he did okay, you know, but, yeah. But back then it wasn't, I'm proud of you, okay, let's get up, like boys don't cry, that kingdom entirely, tough mentality, but then stuff, that kingdom lays out your life and makes you a bit, something to go, keeps you a bit tough, even though, listen, we're living in an environment where it's very soft, we're living a week in generation where we can mother too much. And the thing is, it's not their fault. Yeah. It's not their fault, it's our fault. Yeah. Is that how you're close to your own kids now? Yeah, I try and fail often to be the best father I can, but I know that sometimes the love of your children, if it's not regulated by the fact that your, their father, not their best friend, you know, you're there to set an example and to instill some kind of discipline into them and self-discipline for them, and to make them aware of that and bring them up as men. Yeah, hopefully I can do that, I've done that. Yeah, it's important because you spoke about having your babies next to you when they're born, because you started to cry out, Mayfield were kids used to screaming, it was cells moving, the kids have got to be skinning, I believe in, in actual keeping them there, because they say cells moving, but I then think that creates abandonment issues, because I'm learning over the years, and I feel as if the more love you can give your kids, the more they'll thrive in life, because they don't feel abandoned or don't feel lonely. Absolutely, it's the most natural thing in the world, that a child cries, why is it crying? Any animal cries, why it needs its parents there, you know? Both my kids slept with us whenever they felt like it, and then went to their own bed when they want to, I wish Ethan had waited till he had me there until he was 25, before he moved out, but no, I think it's wonderful, and you know, it's wonderful, I remember talking to a doctor, I think, Dr. Mommick, and I was talking about that, and I said, but you know, what if you've got your baby in there, what if you roll over on them? He said, you'll never roll over on them. He said, if you're asleep, you know, you just won't, doesn't happen, you won't smother your child, you're too much together, you know, and that, you smell them and they smell you, and they know they're loved and safe and comforted. What's wrong with that? What is wrong with that? What, you're going to put them in a room somewhere, and say, oh wait till they stop crying, they'll be fine, and that's going to sort you out great in future. Yeah, wait till they're 18, they'll feel absolutely amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the greatest part you feel as if you've ever played or the one you've enjoyed the most? I think there's a difference between the best part you've played and the one you've enjoyed most, because sometimes, like the Pyramid text, I think that was the best effort I could ever give as an actor with my talent, you know, meager as it is, that's the best I could do, but it wasn't particularly pleasant or, you know, because you had to dig deep, as we're talking about, into your soul and open yourself out, you know, but then you do something like Jack Ryan, and I had an absolute ball doing that. You know, John Krasinski plays Jack Ryan, you know, they've done three seasons and four seasons, and I was in season three playing this Russian spy, a master spy. Was that what you were talking about, Steve? Because you never had a beard or a mustache, so he didn't know it was you. I know, I didn't notice me. When I arrived, they said in Budapest, I tell you, see when I went to Budapest, I mean, Budapest is a stunning place. Hungary itself is a fabulous country with fabulous people. Anyway, I arrived there. Well, I tell you, this is how I got it, of course. I get a call, like on a Friday or something, and it's my agent, Olivia, and she says, James, she said, I've had a phone call about you from the producers of Jack Ryan. I went, she said, it's an Amazon thing with John Krasinski, and I hadn't watched, what's it called, The Office. I hadn't seen the American version, which John was in. So I didn't really know who that was. And she said, it's really odd. Usually, if you're going up for a huge Amazon seat, most expensive one they've got, it's enormous. But it was, they've finished now. I mean, tens of millions of pounds every episode. It's crazy. And she said, usually you have to go through different levels. And it's a really, really big part. You've got to pass different gates to get through. She said, it's a straight offer. They just want you. She said, the producers want you, the studio wants you, and Amazon want you. But most importantly, John Krasinski wants you. I thought, well, John Krasinski, but anyway, she says, yeah, and this is the deal. And it's like, wow, wow. So I said, yeah, absolutely. Cut forward a wee bit. The first day I meet John Krasinski, who's a delightful man, great big guy. He's really lovely. And we were talking and he said, do you know why we asked you to play this part? I said, John, I would love to know. I was waiting to, like, I don't understand. He said, my wife and I were reading season three. His wife is Emily Blunt, the fabulous actress, right? She said, we were reading season three together. And we came to the end of it. And he said, I said to my wife, who should play Luca Gotcheroff? And Emily said, without hesitation, James Cosmo. Now, I've never met Emily Blunt, still haven't in my life. Never met her. But that lady said, he should play it. And John said, I agree. That was it. Boom. Done. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Anyway, I turned up, I fly into Budapest and go for a costume fitting. We pick them up at the airport, go straight to the studio costume fitting. So that's like an hour, not less, 40 minutes. Try on the suits because they're all dark suits, Russian suits. I go and get in the car, drive to my hotel, right? The Four Seasons, James. The Four Seasons, right? It's like the best. Beautiful. Just overlooking the Danube. It's like, oh my God. And I walk in. I think this is the follow, because I'm right here. So I got to my room. I haven't even unpacked and the phone rings. So I'll answer the phone. Hello. And they said, James. I said, yeah, that's right. They said, it's production here. When you're at the costume fitting today, someone was later tested for COVID and they've tested positive for COVID. So you are now confined to your room for two weeks. What? They went, right. That's, I said, what? I've got to stay in the hotel. They said, no, you've to stay in your room. You're not allowed out your room. And it was funny because your mind changes. One minute you're thinking, this is just. Look at this. I'm the bed, the fucking TV, everything. In 10 seconds you're going, fuck, this is it. And it was two weeks. You would phone up. I went through the room service menu about four times. You'd go send us up one of those steaks again, would you? And, but then they'd ring the doorbell and you'd run over the door, open the door. There's nobody there. It's like the shining. It was just a twally. When you're food on, they must have like, there's a trolley. Ready? Crickles! I didn't see any of them for two weeks. It was, it was hell. It was like being in solitary. How have you managed to stay at the top of your game through the years? Because you see people who do a couple of big parts and fade away. You seem to have improved as you've got older. But the two of them. Well, there was a lot of room for improvement. Yeah, I started with a very low bar. And then worked my way up, but I'm only halfway. I think it's just been open to stuff, James. You know, like, I won't say no, just, you know, like I've done, I did a Bollywood movie. You know, I did. Where's that? Where can we see that? Oh, I'm not going to tell you. Tell you, I'm going to cut up clips and say, this is a new James Cosmo. I tell you, it was. How was that? They've been fun. It was mad. It was absolutely mad. Because they all came over to London to this huge crew. So we filmed in London. And then I went out to Chennai for about a week to do bits out there. But I worked for this. He's a really famous Indian actor called Dhanush. And he was a lovely young man and like a superstar out there. But we did, you know, I said to them at the beginning, I said, I don't have to sing. Do I? And they would, no, no, no singing. Don't worry. Because it's all singing and dancing. The character, you know, he doesn't sing. I went, oh, well, that's OK then. But this is going to be interesting how people in another continent make movies. I want to be part of that. So I did. But eventually we were down in Rochester or somewhere filming. And me and Dhanush have just, it's just a gangster thing. And I've just killed, stabbed this guy to death, you know, and I've got blood all over me. And we get out this Rolls Royce. And they start playing. It wasn't Indian music, but it was, it was some sort of rock and roll song. I made Dhanush sing this song. He was going on, but he just got to go with it, you know. And it was interesting. So just being open to different things and trying different things. See what it's like. You know, there's nothing wrong in trying and to try and keep your enthusiasm for the industry and for life and for, just keep opening, keep being enthusiastic about it. Because we're only here for a very short time and just enjoy it. Give it your best. Which are proudest moment in life, James? My proudest moments. I don't know. I don't know. The birth of my children, but I was absent at both. Thank God. It was a terrific piece of timing. I was away for both of them. I don't think you can say I'm proud to become a father. I mean, it didn't take much, especially me. That's been the greatest joy of my life. But I find it hard to think of the greatest moments in my life. Nothing, you know, you can say. I get the MBE from the Queen, which was delightful. And I was so glad to meet her, albeit very, very briefly. You know, like she goes, well done. She shakes her hand like that. And then she goes, fuck off. OK, yeah, that's it. No, I'm sort of satisfied with the way my life is panned out. I don't think there's anything that I should be particularly proud of because I haven't done anything that deserves a great deal of pride. I'd like to think my family are happy with what I've done, and that's enough for me. Do you think you're hard on yourself for that? Because what you've achieved from a Scotsman, from coming from Clydebank is second to none. There's only a handful of people who have done what you've done, the career that you've had. It's unbelievable. And for me, sitting across from you, I'm proud to say because there's a Scotsman as well, it's amazing to see because I know how hard the industry is to try and make something of your life and do what others don't push on to do. So you've left the blueprint for people that can go on and achieve their dreams, you know? Well, that's very generous of you to say so, James, but the only thing that I might be proud of, I'm wary of the word proud, but if we're going to use that, if I'm proud, I take pride in the fact that people, ordinary working people, can look at me and look at my work and say he's one of us because I am. And I've never wanted to be anything else, but one of them, I am not elevated in any way. I'm one of you and that's what I'm proud of. Yeah, fair play. You won the Great Scotsman Award. The Great Scotsman Award. Lifetime Achievement Award. You won the Lifetime Achievement Award. Which is a bit worrying, you know, because they say Lifetime Achievement, what, is that it over? See you later. I'm going to work again. But yeah, I won that about five or six years ago and then I gave Bobby's one, which he so, so richly deserves. Yeah, definitely. See, before we finish up, where was it? What do you have? Heart Fuller? Where was it? All over. Can you talk about it now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't always Scotland, it was Ireland, it was all over the place. We went up to Inverness and we filmed in just outside Inverness for about five weeks. All the mountainous stuff was Scotland. And then Michael D. Higgins, who was then the Irish Minister of Culture is now the President of Ireland, he got in touch with the production company and said, if you come to Ireland, we will give you tax breaks, we'll give you the territorial army, no fly zones, all that sort of stuff. So it was a no-brainer for the production company, but it was great to fit in. I love Ireland and I play Irishman quite a lot and I feel so at home in Ireland. But I just thought, why, you know, because you saw that thing of it, like a pebble in the pool, you know, that money that was spent in Scotland. You could see people that, you know, they'd made some money, so they bought, you know, they had their kitchen re-done and all that. You thought, God, if £80 million was spent here, that'd be fantastic, you know. And that's what, you know, I tried to, myself and Dave Stewart, you know, the rhythmics guy, we tried to build a studio up there, but it didn't work. And I lost a lot of money doing that. But I just, yeah, I just was a bit saddened that it wasn't all filmed in Scotland, but there you are. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah. What's your plans for the future, James? I'll just, I think I'm playing, shows how old I am. I think I'm playing Merlin in yet another King Arthur film at the beginning of the year. So I'm sort of looking forward to that and that'll be a bit of fun. For anybody that's watching, because I know people will see, they see people on the big screens and they think, wow, there must be fucking live in the high life, but a lot of actors, you know, you're still struggling. I know you've been through some struggles in life. Yeah. For anybody that's watching, it's maybe in this struggle, James, what advice would you have for them? In the acting world? In any world, just in our own life in general. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I could say something really profound and helpful to people, but I, in my later years of, I have found a belief in something greater than us. And I do believe that everything will turn out okay. In the end, we just have to try and display kindness and love and strength in the world. And be brave and be steadfast and embrace the values that really mean things. And that's not envy and money and everything else. Those don't mean anything. It's who you are as a person. And even if you go to your grave with nothing, at least you've lived your life as a good person. That's it. James, I'd like to finish up on anything else. No, that's fine. That's an absolute legend. Scottish legend. It's a real pleasure. Yeah, no. Likewise, man. I wish you all the best for the future and I look forward to see what you do next. And I look forward to watching many more of your podcasts. Thank you, my brother. God bless you. God bless you.