 Bingo! 12 o'clock Rock here on a Thursday with Think Tech. Aloha United, we stand. I'm Jay Fidel and I'm delighted to present Jim Kennedy, he's the Executive Director of Hawaii Fido Service Dogs, which is a non-profit supported at least in part by Aloha United Way. And Larry Bigelow, who is a veteran and service dog owner. Thank you very much, you guys. Thank you for including us. Nice to have you here. So tell us a little bit about what Hawaii Fido Service Dogs does as an organization, Jim. Well we raise and train at no charge to our clients service dogs that help people with disabilities other than blindness. There are so many different types of legitimate service dogs and we focus on those that have disabilities other than blindness. An example might be someone who has some stability issues and need assistance balancing, getting into and out of a chair, in a car, out of bed. And the dogs should be trained any number of different things, retrieval, besides bracing, retort and fetching for medicines and what have you. But anyway we've been around since the year 2000. We were founded by Susan Lures, who was a special education teacher at Kahuku. And she had an aha moment a few years before she retired and that was when she was raising dogs, she would bring some in to her special ed class. And she noticed that people that weren't paying attention were starting to pay attention. And she knew then, of course all her life she's been a dog person, but she knew that dogs should change the life and the direction of the life. So she decided she wanted to become a trainer of legitimate service dogs when she retired. And the Lions Club helped put her through some of that training. And in the year 2000 she started Hawaii Fido Service Dogs. So what's the depth and scope of the organization now? How many staff members do you have and what do you do? We have two people who are staff and I'm a part time executive director. And most of what I do is out of my love of what service dogs can do for people. And then Susan Lures, who is the founder, but she is also our lead trainer. And we have about 30 individuals who assist us in puppy raising. Usually that's husband and wife couples or mother daughter. And we have about 15 dogs that are in training at any given point in time. And so those 30 volunteers are really our organization. We also have three other trainers who donate their time and assist Susan in the actual training. The first year and a half that the dog is around, is born. First year and a half that dog is socialized, is trained behaviorally. It learns how to behave in all kinds of environmental situations and different group situations. So in the year and a half, after a year and a half of life, it's perfect in every way and it's ready to be trained in to provide services to somebody with disability. So what's the entry point? Do you wean the pup? Do you train the pup and then you present the pup to the partner, the service dog owner? Susan does all the dogs that we have come to us free from Susan. Susan has been a dog breeder. She's a breeder. In addition to being our lead trainer. What kind of breed are we talking about? We have two types of dogs that we focused on. One of them is the Labrador and the other is a Labradoodle. It's part poodle, part Labrador. And the benefit of the Labradoodle is that it's hyper- allogenic. So somebody has to slide or in their family has the slightest allergy issues. That dog will not create a problem in that house. Across the country Labradors are by far the most common dog. They have great smarts. They also have great flexibility. They, if they come across something they haven't been trained to deal with, they don't panic, they deal with it. And Labradoodles are very smart dogs too and they do the same thing. So those we really feel good working with those two. So when the dog is trained say 18 months, then you present the dog to a worthy owner. Actually the first 18 months is behavioral and socialization. Then it goes to what I call boot camp. Okay and that is when we are constantly getting applications from individuals who would like to have a service dog. And we assess it based on their needs and our ability to provide a dog that can provide tasks that will actually help them. And when we select that person and the dog's coming up, it looks like this is going to be a good pair. And that's about 18 months. What happens then is that individual starts training directly with the dog and one of our professional trainers. Yeah and in those last six months from 18 months to 24 when the dog is that's when those dogs really learn to perform the tasks that are needed. And then they go on. But the training never stops. Oh I want to know about that. So you continue to update the training through the life of the dog. As long as they the partners are here stay in Hawaii and don't move someplace else. We absolutely do. Because you need to be retrained sometimes. Sometimes we need to you know you get back and say okay we need to teach the dog to calm down a little bit because they are dogs and they like to have fun. Or maybe there's a new task that we need to have. And we're always meeting with them. Maybe the service owner needs to be retrained too. Oh man that's true. Now Larry we've done it. He runs very good. I've learned a lot. The kibble. It's a wonderful thing to have dogs. I told you before I am so into dogs. I couldn't live without one yet. So anyway so you have a short clip you want to play let's see. Yeah okay what we what we did was we've been trying to do a lot of kickoffs with the Loha United Way and they did a video that they used during that kickoff and one of our partner teams was involved in that video and the kinetic productions who did it for a Loha United Way says we want to do a PSA for you. So this is a 32nd PSA. Real quickly what it's all about is it not only shows different kinds of tasks legitimate dogs can provide but it also takes a gentle poke and a real problem we'll talk about in a little bit and that's the fake service dog issue. Yeah yeah so we try to accomplish it and we think kinetic hit it on the head. This is a 32nd PSA. Here we go. How come he gets to go in? He's a service dog. Well I could get a vest too. You're not even a service dog. He's trained to assist his owner. Well I can do whatever he can do. Wow did he just open the door? Yep. I can't do that. I can't do that either. He's trained for over two years to become a service dog. Man I wish I could be a service dog. Not all heroes wear capes. Yeah they are our best friend. Going back to the thousands of years. Oh yeah absolutely. So let's meet Larry Larry how did you get involved with service dogs? Well I had previously had pets had new foundlets and my 175 pound dog was great for doing the therapy thing visiting hospitals and schools and things so I contacted Susan to get my dog registered as a therapy dog so I could get the insurance for him all that kind of stuff. That was quite a few years ago and then I think about 2010 and so my new family began to have spinal problems and I was going to lose him to those spine problems and just about the time I'm losing him mine started. So I don't know if it's a hereditary thing I got from my dog. But was at a real low spot. He's just lost my best friend. Couldn't work anymore. Couldn't do much of anything. Wondering how I'm going to pay rent you know survive in Hawaii and small pension social security so things are real tight. Was at a real low spot and I just thought about Susan called her up one day and I said Susan do you think I would qualify for a dog and she says well tell me about your problem. So we went over it and she says yes definitely. So kind of started in the program. Buzz was already being trained and I actually went out with Buzz's brother for the first time. Because of my spine issues I can't I need a dog that can provide me forward mobility but I can't stand hard pulling. He's pulling away. Yeah when I'm not ready for it. So his brother was just a little more hyper than what I could handle. A couple months later I started training with Buzz and what we would do is I'd go out once a week. I'd go down to the kennels a couple times a week and taking for walks and things like that to get to knowing and think that I'm really training my dog. A couple funny instances but then everything was going good at about I think Buzz was nine months old and it was about November just about two years ago and Susan said would you like to be his puppy raiser and that was the next step in the training. So I said yes and Buzz came to live with me and we continued to train once a week. Do you have to pay anything to get a service dog? No I didn't. Okay no. We did not charge a set. Okay I want to get that clear. So we just started training it was about well a kind of an unusual thing happened to me that is a really big benefit to me and I attribute it to the veterans. I get my medical care through the VA. VA three or four years ago started a program for spinal patients. I think they might have branched out into some other things. I don't think they're going to do PTSD or any of the psychological things. It's just my thoughts and but anyway so the program was for spinal patients and I had to demonstrate to them that there's nothing else they could do to help me. A wheelchair, a cane, none of those things are going to work for me. So they gave me an insurance policy. My dog is registered through the VA as a U.S. Veterans Service dog. They gave me an insurance policy through a company called TruePanion. It covers all my dog's veterinary care prescription drugs for life. I provided by the VA. Yes, yes they pay for it. It's the biggest, it's the biggest thing that the biggest benefit that I've had since I've gotten out of the service. I mean it's everything. I would I would like to introduce our audience to Buzz, your dog who is here in the studio with us. I'm going to make them wait. I wanted to be a cliffhanger. A buzzhanger as it works. So we'll take a one-minute break. Our customary one-minute break will come back and then you will introduce to us Buzz, our service dog. I'd be proud to. Aloha Kako. I'm Marcia Joyner inviting you to navigate the journey with us. We are here every Wednesday morning at 11 a.m. and we really want you to be with us where we look at the options and choices of end of life care. Aloha. Hi, I'm Keeley Iakena, president of the Grassroot Institute. I'd love you to join us every week Mondays at 2 o'clock p.m. for Ehana Kako. Let's work together. We report every week on the good things going on in our state as well as the better things that can go on in the future. We have guests covering everything from the economy, the government, and society. See you Mondays on Ehana Kako at 2 o'clock p.m. Until then, I'm Keeley Iakena. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Carl Campania. I hope you please visit us this summer. It's a wonderful summer. It's actually a cooler summer than we're used to. But I hope that you come back and visit us and watch our show Education Movers, Shakers, and Reformers here on Think Tech Hawaii. It's at noon every Wednesday. See you then. Okay, we're back. We're live. Think Tech, Aloha United. We stand with Jim Kennedy of Hawaii Fido Service Dogs and Larry Bigelow, who is a service dog owner and veteran. So we promised everybody that we would show them, introduce them to Buzz. Can you do that for us? I think so. Buzz, up. Come here. Okay, sit for me. Sit for me. Yeah, good boy. So this is Buzz. Been together a little over two years now. Has become my absolute best friend. We're getting closer and closer every day. When I said that the training never ends, even that Buzz and I are together, we train every day, you know. And fine tuning the things that he needs to do for me. The biggest one for me is forward mobility. But he does all the retrieving things. Would you like to see him pick something up for me? Yes, I would. He's not going to do it until you tell him. Exactly. Okay, bring it to me. Bring it. Put it in my hand. In my hand. Good job. Can you sit? And of course, it's always about bribery. Go for it. Go for it. He works. What's in your pocket there? He knows which pocket. Believe me. Wonderful. Wonderful dog. Look how devoted he is to you. We have one of the things that we do is we have a look command. And it's very important if he starts looking at cats or something. You know, he's a dog, you know. And a lot of times he has to be brought back into what he's doing. So we have a look command. But if you watch this, Buzz, look. Hey, look. Good job. So important. He's very important. And he's so attentive to me. My back is pretty bad. And a lot of times in the evenings, I have a tough time sleeping at night. Roll around. You know, roll around and grow in a little bit. And he usually sleeps in the living room. He has a little pillow out there. But if he hears me in the middle of the night or if I get up to use the restroom or something, Buzz is right there by my side. He, if I go anywhere, he's right by my side. So Wonderful experience. It is. It's so much different. Okay, come sit for me. Okay, down. Good job. Okay, what an introduction. Thank you very much. You're welcome. So, Jim, you know, we talked before the show about fake service dogs and about impersonation of circus dogs. It's not that simple. In the case of Larry, totally legitimate, necessary, appropriate, trained, you know, it's part of the world that we customarily think of for service dogs. But there's a lot of impersonation going on. You know, and I think they're not only is it some of done intentionally, but I think some people think that their dog because it gives them comfort, emotional support, that they they think in terms of this, my dog's a service dog. The unfortunate thing is whether they feel that way or they're just going to try to game the system, they can go online right now and search service dog vests or certifications for $69.95, you can get that thing. That right? Yeah. And you'll get doctor's statements. And if you spend $20 more, they'll rush it to you in two days. You can order vests. You can order leashes. You can order harnesses. And what that has done is people have really taken unfair advantage of that. And it creates some serious problems in real world. And for example, when an individual has a legitimate service dog walks into a restaurant, increasingly restaurant tears, well, they have to allow a service dog in, but they look at this little fee fee, you know, dragging his tags on the floor. Are you kidding me and yipping? And you know, if it's a legitimate dog, and they don't let it in, they're afraid there might be some financial liabilities. If they really question it, then they have to be careful on how they do that. And what happens is a legitimate service dog teams, even if they're really well-behaved and look like it, sometimes they catch the brunt of this frustration of, is that really a service dog? So it depreciates the whole program when that happens? It really does. There are two questions that an establishment can ask. Is that dog required because of a disability? You can't say, are you disabled? You can't say, what is your disability? But is that dog required because of a disability? And the other question is, is what specific task has that dog been trained to perform? You can't say, give me a demo, give me an ID, you know, prove it. They can only ask those two questions. But people can, you know, what's the word lie when they are asked questions like that. Yeah, they can. And so, you know, the big challenge is how do you get people sensitive to what they're doing? And we think, the more we get out and tell the story about the downside of this fake service dog issue, that some of the abusers might start to rethink it, or their family and friends will say, hey, mom, dad's really unfair. Yes, really unfair. Would you please rethink this? It's serious. Larry, have you ever been challenged, did anybody ever ask you, is this really a service dog? Not really. Some people approached me at Food Land one day and asked me the two questions. And they see me in there all the time. And I think she knew. But I think that's how they're told to react. Good for them. So, yes. And when anybody does, I want to be challenged. I want to be asked. I'm really proud. Everybody is being challenged. Well, I'm just really proud of what I've done. And it's such a big deal. My dog is such an asset to me. You know, I just want everybody to know, yeah, he's a service dog, and he's a real deal, and we're a team. Yeah, great. So the problems I have are, and there's so many emotional support now. I three times that it's real important to me, walking up a slight incline, Buzz has given a command just to pull me gently. Okay, we come to stairs. And I have to rearrange his leash. So he's pulling with his chest. But he'll actually pull me up the stairs. So and that's real important. I have a tough time. Sure. The only exercise I can really do is to swim. And so Buzz has been trained to swim with me. Comes in the water. Yeah, it comes with in the water. And then when we get out of the water, I have trouble in the soft sand, the water in the soft sand. So he has a swimming harness on it. So I'm pulling from his shoulders. And I just lean back and tell him to pull hard. And he'll pull me all the way up out of the water in the soft sand. So these are just things that would be so hard for me to do alone. Yeah. Problem arises when there's so many emotional support dogs out there, people with fake service dogs, they don't mind if you pet their dog. And, and, you know, their dogs are always real friendly and everything. Well, the problem I have is, say I'm working with my dog going upstairs, we both have to concentrate. I'm concentrating on keeping my foot feet going up the stairs. And he's concentrating on pulling me. And I've had people come up right in the middle of this and say, Oh, can I pet your dog? Oh, my God. And so, so like I did with you, I asked people to come up and, and look me in the eye and talk to me for a moment. The story is that when I came into the studio to meet these guys, I love dogs, you know, and I, and I began talking to Buzz. I didn't know his name, so I called him baby. And I said, Hello, baby. And Larry, Larry corrected me. Not a good idea. You have to come through me because I control his focus. And, you know, that's a very important point for people to understand. If it's a legitimate service dog, you don't go over to the service dog, and start making nice and petting the dog or addressing dog, you go to the owner first. Yes, very important, very important. Yeah. Well, let's let's talk about the law. Yes, we spoke earlier and I understand that this is recognized in a number of, you know, federal packages anyway, which, which, you know, respect and, and give credence to service dogs. What are those packages? The number one laws of Americans with disabilities at ADA. That law is the one that basically says, if it's a service dog, and it has to be for someone with disabilities and specifically trained to perform task for that. If it's a service dog, that that dog is allowed anywhere the public is allowed in the United States. Period is allows it. They go further and say, though, you do not have to get that dog from a certified training organization. You are actually allowed to train a service dog yourself. That's part of the problem with the fake service dog. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So that but the ADA is the governing entity there. If people really want to dig into it, the Department of Justice, you go to DOJ's site has a great Q and a FAQ. If we can ask questions, about eight page documents, it goes into a great deal. The airlines themselves have another act that goes a step further. And it actually makes room for certain emotional support dogs to be on board or playing besides a service dog. ADA doesn't allow for anything but a service dog. But the Airlines Act has allowance for a comfort dog that makes you less anxious if you're flying. So this is beyond this strict definition of that service. That's right. And then they want to do that fine. Yeah, but but in they have doctors certificates and you wonder how many of those are legitimate. And then you have the Fair Housing Act. What does that say? What that says is that if you have an emotional support dog, and you have the papers that that from your doctor saying you need to have this dog, then the wherever you're living has to be able to accommodate you. That doesn't mean that that dog has free run can go out and run around in the grounds can run up down the hallway in and out of your unit and under control at all times. So that's not that goes beyond a service dog as well. So you've got these different acts out there and that they're good for what they're trying to accomplish. But it goes beyond the service dog frame that we used to work. Let me be running out of time. Okay, cover one other area. You know, is this from a statutory point of view or a legal point of view? Is this at its best? Or can we improve it in some way? And if so, how I would like to see certification being required, not that you have to necessarily go to a certified school. But if you do your training yourself, you take the equivalent of a, you know, general exam and prove that I this dog performs tasks. If you get certification, then you have something that is that can't be trumped unless somebody is really printing false certificates. Right now, there's nothing that that prohibits somebody from training their own dog is saying this is a certified dog. So I'd like to see certification national national because states can't trump federal federal trumps everything. Not to do a plan words here. But okay, I didn't notice. But the biggest challenge with that is that how do you how do you implement that the bureaucracies that would be involved in the paper makes a decision? Who makes the decision in the costs? A couple of the things that are going on is is a person can't ask and buzz has been through. I like to say compliant because he's not certified. You know, he has been he's compliant with ADI standards as assistance dogs international. They're the big license in AMC. The reason I wanted to bring it up is because if someone had planned to do the VA thing and try and get the medical benefits for their dog, it has to be ADI certified. It's the only thing they're going to recognize. And our program's been ADI certified for about two and a three years, I think. Yeah, there's no overarching certification. That's correct. Okay, well let me ask one other question and this is, you know, what I would what I would worry about if I were in your shoes Larry. So buzz is what three four years old now. Yeah, he's going to be coming up on three. Coming up on three, yeah. It's a training in a time spent with you. And buzz's life expectancy is going to be what, 10 or 12 max? I think so. Yeah, yeah. So what happens then? You know, I don't even think about it. It's, it's, my conditions are not going to get any better. You know, it's degenerative. So I'm not going to get any better. And so I'm really glad to have buzz now because we have an opportunity to learn and grow together as my condition changes. His requirements are going to be different. So that's where the never changing comes in. If I'm to lose him, you know, that's the most horrible thing in a dog guy's life. I never had children. So dogs have been my whole life. It's just the hardest thing there is. I've done it with many pets. Now with a service dog, you know, I, I worry about, I worry about more about me than I do him. And one of the things that's so great about being involved with High Fido, if something happens to me, they will come get my dog and they will care for him. And I know my dog will always be taking care of me. Yeah. We're going to take care of Lurie too. When that time comes, we're going to be there to provide him his next service. Susan told me, Susan told me a few months ago and we were talking about some different things. And she says, she looked at me, she says, Larry, you're part of the family. And it's so, it gives me such a good feeling. I get that. I think it's such a wonderful cause. I think if we had some place to take all the homeless dogs and put them in one place and then we can take all the veterans that need them and match everybody else we'd be. You heard it here on yesterday. It's very clear that this is not a two-partner partnership. It's a three-partner partnership. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thank you. Larry, great to have you on the show. Thank you.