 Welcome, and aloha. My name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program. Today we're going to go across the sea to Osaka, Japan to talk with my friend Eriko Hayashi. Eriko is a lawyer in Japan who has recently begun a new era in her personal and professional lives. Lawyers are often seen as advocates for other people or causes. However, lawyers also have their own lives to live. I've asked Eriko to share her journey with us. Eriko, welcome. I know it's morning in Osaka. It's good to see you again. How are you? Great. Thank you. How are you? Okay. All right. Well, except I understand it's sunny in Osaka. It's very wet in Hawaii, but hopefully that'll change, at least in Honolulu soon. So I wanted to ask you about your professional life, but before we go into that, I'd like you to tell us, please, a little bit about your personal life, where you were born, where you grew up, you know, that type of background about yourself. Please. Sure. I was born and raised in Ishinomiya City, in the western part of Japan, which is located in between Kobe and Osaka. I have moved several times when I was a child, and I had been used to moving around in my teenage. I could not fit in Japanese school system, which seemed to be based on a group mentality, and I prefer reading books and thinking a lot about the truth in life and human beings to playing with friends or group activities. After I graduated from high school in Ishinomiya, I enrolled Kyoto University, Faculty of Law, and lived in Kyoto for four years. Okay. All right. So, oh, to live in Kyoto, that must have been wonderful, a wonderful city. Yeah. A wonderful city. Yeah. I love to go there, and I often go there with one of our mutually good friends, Richard Goldstein. He loves to go there also. I know. Every time he came to Japan, he goes to Kyoto. Why did you choose law? How did you get into law? What drew you to law? Yeah. Actually, as I said, I was much more interested in literature and philosophy when I was in my teenage, so it would be more natural for me to choose that area as a major at university. But I thought it was essential to me to learn about more about the real society and interact with people and gain actual experiences. So I decided to choose faculty of law as a major, which was a big challenge as an unsociable person like me at the time. In that context, I took the bar exam and became a lawyer. Well, you know, it's hard to believe you think you're unsociable. But because all the time I've known you, you've been very sociable. No. Sorry? If so, my attempt was successful. OK. Now, your website, a very interesting website, you talk about this being the first year of, I hope I'm pronouncing it, Raiwa, and it's also the beginning of a new era for yourself, the beginning of your firm. Please explain. What does Raiwa, what does that mean, and what does, you know, what does it mean, the beginning of a new era? What is that for you? Please explain that. Sure. Raiwa is the name of a new era, which is an indication of a year of the renail from the emperor, Japanese emperor. We celebrate the beginning of such new era in May last year. Actually, I didn't originally plan to start my new form on the same year with the beginning of Raiwa, but it happened to be the same year. I joined my previous firm, Oibashi, LPC and Partners, which is the largest law firm in the western part of Japan, and started the first year of my law practice in 2001, which is the beginning of the 21st century. And it happened that I started my new form at the beginning of Raiwa, which is another new era to Japan. As I said, I didn't originally plan to do so, but it seems to me that my personal past is somehow synchronized with the big wave of the eras at large. Yeah, so Raiwa, Raiwa, again, I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly, is the emperor, a new emperor, and you had some feeling that came that you wanted to change what you were doing. And is this a common feeling among Japanese? I mean, when the new era, a new emperor comes on, is this something that's a cultural thing about Japan? Do all Japanese feel like we have to make changes or we look at ourselves or something like that? I would not say it is pretty common or it is homo for all the Japanese people, but it could be regarded as a good opportunity to take for some people who want to make up their mind to try a new thing or change something. That's my feeling. So it's kind of like, it's a point in your life when you stop to think. Maybe. Right. Everything's happening. There's a new emperor. Okay. All right. And it gives you a pause. You have a pause in your life, maybe. Is that a correct, am I getting that right? Yeah. Okay. So correct. Okay. So before you began the new era in Osaka, what were you doing? What was your professional life like? Um, I started my lawyer's life at Oibashi LPCM Partners, as I said, which is the largest law firm in Western part of Japan. And having been sponsored by Oibashi, I studied at LLM program at NYU School of Law in 2005. And then I was seconded to a large law firm in San Francisco in 2006. Having worked for a few years in Oibashi after returning from the US, I became a partner in 2010 and also became the head, which was a chief legal representative officially of its Shanghai office. In 2016, I returned to Tokyo and kept working as a partner of Tokyo office until September 20, 2019, which was last year. Okay. So Oibashi, I know a lot of the lawyers in that firm, I really like them. It's a really good firm. And, you know, I've seen several of them over the years and got to be pretty good friends with them too. So I know that was a good firm. So I know that you had a lot of good experience. What, what type of law were you practicing at Oibashi? What, what, what areas of law? Okay. I would say that I had been a kind of generalist of the cross border legal practice. Of course, my major area was China because I have spent six years there, but I have dealt with legal matters regarding various jurisdictions. The practice areas that I covered was also pretty much broad. And with some particular focus on corporate law, intellectual property law, and contract law. I know the general trend for law practice now is specialist, but I have an idea that the more complicated the actual world becomes by such as technology and globalization, the more professional generalists are necessary, even in a legal practice. And a generalist fits my character and nature more than a specialist, I think. So kind of a general practice of law, that's kind of what I did too. And yeah, and, and I would like associate with specialists at times, but I would like more the general idea myself too, as I was practicing law and, and like you, I was once with a large firm and then I went out on my own. You spent time in China and what was that like? What did, what, what type of things did you do in China? What type of practice and what, what did you learn from practicing law in China? Hmm. Yeah, I learned a lot of things in particularly, I learned that the more complexity and uncertainty from various aspects such as jurisdiction, cultural background, language, governmental system exist in a matter, the more room for lawyers to contribute to exists. I enjoyed learning how to be creative, innovative, flexible and communicable to deal with such complexity and uncertainty in resolving matters in China. Yeah, so it kind of broaden your whole life experience and your practice in a way you learn how to talk to different people. What, what, I mean, is there any particular case that within your practice that you remember that was meaningful to you and that you can tell us about without disclosing confidential information? Tell us a little bit about perhaps something that affected you. Yeah, in one case, I served as the leading counsel in the infringement cases of the Chinese intellectual property rights, including machinery patents, copyrights of controlling software, et cetera. That was one of the most impressive matters that I handled in China. And what happened in that case without, without going into, you know, this, without telling us things that are confidential, what can you, what was that case about, you know, what happened? Yeah, the infringer was originally a small company, but they became so successfully as to prepare for going public by profiting the gate through the infringement activities. My client, which is a large Japanese machinery cooperation faced to the situation where they have to abandon Chinese market if the infringement keeps going. The client first hired Chinese law firms. Although they won the cases, it did not ultimately resolve the problem and infringement kept going. The client took it seriously and retained me and asked me to take the whole control of any legal measures in China to achieve the goal. We brought various measures in multiple cities in China and thought about for eight years. I want to talk about more, but it will be confidential. So it's just. Well, I mean, it sounds very complex and I mean an area of intellectual property. And as we know, as we know, I mean, well, I don't know if there is always been complaints about that happening. And, you know, in order to to fight it, wow, eight years, eight years. Yes, eight years. Yeah, but still. Oh, wow. And I guess having that type of case makes it so you have to learn to talk across culturally and with all sorts of people. Not only personally, socially, but legally. Right. Okay. Now, also on your website, you mentioned very nicely Interpacific Bar Association. Tell us what is your relationship with that? That's one of my favorite organizations. But so I do know a little bit. But tell us what your what your feelings are about the Interpacific Bar Association, what it is and how you got involved. Yeah, you know, this more about about this more than I do. Since you're one of the charter members, but anyhow, in my impression, I will talk about my feeling and idea. It is an association of business of business lawyers who are located or interested in the Interpacific region. And I did it its annual conference held in Seoul in 2004 for the first time. And I instantly knew I love this association. Since then, I have continued attending the annual conferences. This association is unique in having that origin in Japan and their philosophy is called Spirit of Katsura. It's one of the beautiful city in Japan, Chiba Prefecture. The association is full of friendship minded members. And I made a lot of lifelong friends like you from all over the world. It has greatly widened up my mind to the world. I had served as a committee chair of cross border investment committee of the Interpacific Bar Association for eight years, which is four years each as a chair and as a vice chair until last year. And I have managed and organized more than 10 sessions at every annual conference. It has been a great opportunity to learn what's going on in the legal practice on the global basis and also to get to know each other with practitioners on various regions. I have been officially nominated as an officer, the deputy committee coordinator of the association for the annual general meeting on June this year and we're looking forward to contributing more to the association if it is approved. Well, I have a feeling it will be approved and that we will be seeing each other at another interpacific bar meeting. We're going to take a one minute break right now, Eriko, and we'll come back. Sure. I'm Kili Akinna, the host of Hawaii Together on the Think Tech Kauai Broadcast Network. Hawaii Together deals with the problems we face in paradise and looks for solutions, whether it's with the economy, the government or society. We're streamed live on Think Tech biweekly at two p.m. on Mondays. I want to thank you so much for watching. We look forward to seeing you again. I'm Kili Akinna, Aloha. Aloha. I am Mark Shklav and I'm the host of Think Tech Kauai's Law Across the Sea program. And we are back with Eriko Hayashi, who is in Osaka in the morning while we are here in the afternoon in Hawaii. Eriko, you went back to Osaka. You began your new era in Osaka. Why tell us why you did that? What what drew you back to Osaka or to Osaka? Actually, I have been totally satisfied with my professional life. In my previous firm, Oebashi, I had many good clients, intellectuals, accumulating mattress, smart and nice colleagues and great office environment. My status as an equity partner was also comfortable. However, there have been things which made me deeply think about my life, who I am and what I really want to do for the rest of my life. I originally aimed, ever since I chose law practice as my career, I had tried to be a practical, sociable and learn the real society as much as I could. And I had so much enjoyed and been dedicated as to almost have forgotten about who I originally was. As I said, I was always looking for the truth in life and human beings when I was in teenage. It was probably because I was born into a serious Buddhist family and I had practiced Buddhism since I was born. My father got serious careers in 2014 and passed away in 2016. Through this experience, I have practiced Buddhism more seriously than ever. Later, there happened some other things which led me to thinking more about my life. In June 2019, last which is last year, I could no longer suppress myself and they decided to go for a new path based on my own vision. I have a vision, but I need time and freedom to think about and prepare for how to specifically realize it. Therefore, I decided to leave the farm where I had been discharged 100% responsibility in providing legal services as well as management of the farm and to become independent. So kind of finding yourself is what I hear. You wanted the time, you worked hard, you've been very successful, done a lot of interesting complex cases and you wanted some time to find yourself. And so you went to Osaka and is the lifestyle different in Osaka? What's it like to practice law and live in Osaka compared to Tokyo or Shanghai? It's totally different. I rent a small office just five minutes away from my home on foot. It is on the foot of a small mountain in a residential area where I can enjoy seasonal flowers and trees. It is just 20 minutes away from the center of Osaka City and 10 minutes away from the Osaka International Airport by car. So I don't feel any trouble to travel to wherever I want. Working life is not something which needs to be balanced here, but rather work and life is as it were seamless and not stress-free, united. So, yeah, so I hear you saying that you don't, you want to make your life and your work, your personal and your professional together. You want them balanced and intertwined in a way. That's what I hear. And what type of law are you doing the same type of law in Osaka as you did before? Actually, right now, there's only me in my farm. So I basically practice law to the extent I can handle by myself, such as by providing legal consultations and drafting, reviewing contracts, etc., which require fewer human resources. I way of constructing a trustworthy, long-term relationship with the clients more heavily than working on a project basis. But it does not mean that I will only do small matters. If I, if needed, I can build up a team to collaborate with other specialists outside depending on their expertise. So you're finding yourself personally and professionally. And also, I hear part of your philosophy about the practice of law is not necessarily to focus on a subject, but to focus on the client. Is that correct? Yes. So tell us, tell us, you know, what is your philosophy about life and the practice of law? Can you go into it a little bit more? My philosophy is based on the teaching, like I said. My philosophy is clear. Oneness of mind and body as well as oneness of myself and our surroundings or others and altruism, orderness and wisdom are my philosophy in all part of my life, including practice of law. You can see this more on the website of my farm, which is only has Japanese so far, though. Well, OK, well, what is your website by right? Tell us what it is. My website. Yeah. My website says about my philosophy. I see, I see. And and. OK, so. With respect to your looking forward, what are your goals for yourself, your life and your profession in Osaka? Yeah. My goal for myself is to change in my self by which is oneness of my mind and the body of myself, like I said, and change my surroundings. Oneness of myself and the surrounding, as I said, and ultimately contribute to changing the world. It means that everything always start with frightening my mind and body and as a consequences of the principle of a cause and effect, which is also the prison principle, the goal shall be achieved. OK, all right. So and you're on that pathway now, right? You're you're on that journey right now. Yeah, new journey for you. OK, independent journey. Now, I have to ask you these questions because everyone's asking about coronavirus. What's happening? How has that affected you in Japan and Osaka? And and also, you know, I know the sumo tournament is going on in Osaka, but nobody can come to it. So how do people feel about that? So a couple questions there for you. Yeah, the coronavirus affected all parts of Japan, including Osaka and people suggested to not to travel a lot. And as you said, there is no audience in a small tournament. Generally, it's inconvenient and they are kind of disappointing. But generally, people accept the situation and understand the importance of behaving like that. So people understand and accept. Are things improving in Japan? Or they can you tell? Are they getting better or not better? I think it's kind of getting under control. It's under control and the people regard the situation, not as a pandemic in Osaka, at least. So I think the situation is kind of kept kept under control. And and is there any thought about the Olympics? Is there any what is the Japanese people? What are they thinking about the Olympics? Yeah, the Japanese government, including Prime Minister Abe, really wants to make it happen. And so so far, there's no official news which says that it will be affected like to be postponed or cancelled. But people, some people wondering if it is true, if we can really do that. So we'll see the situation until probably May or next month. And so right now, like Sumo, it's on. Although Sumo has no spectators, I can't imagine what the Olympics would be without spectators. But well, we have about two minutes left. In those two minutes, please tell me what have you learned about life and the practice of law from your experiences and and what advice, what advice would you give lawyers about living life and practicing life? Yeah, I learned how the world in the society is going on through various types of actual cases. And I have learned how to manage and control myself under a highly pressured situation with a lot of responsibilities, difficulties and time constraints. And I have also learned how to communicate with people in a different background, personality stakes, as well as how to collaborate with other business partners, which is wonderful. I have also learned the satisfaction and joy to contribute to the client and society through practicing law. I realize that there are a lot of things we can do through the practicing law, but at the same time, I also learned its limitation, which is a reason why I started my new life to seek a way to contribute possibly beyond the limitation of practicing law. So my suggestion to lawyers is now is the era. It is a time where the technology and globalization are developing very rapidly. So we have to be flexible to adjust to the society in the world. And the lawyer sometimes is kind of a single-minded, sometimes single-minded and kind of stable. And so try not to change themselves and be conservative. But I think just give it a try and you'll find a new thing which you can contribute to the society more as also you can feel happier ultimately. So kind of be a little more open as a lawyer, open to more experiences, open to maybe finding what you like as a lawyer. Is that correct? OK, no, sorry. My philosophy is open every possibility. So, yeah, you can. Open every possibility. I like that. If somebody wants to contact you, how do they contact you in Osaka? What's the best way to get a hold of you? Please go to my website. There is information on how to contact me. And you can email me at info at erilaw.com. This is the best way to read me. Info at erilaw.com. Erilaw.com. Oh, OK. All right. Very good. Very good. Very nice. Thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you the next time we get to Japan. If not, you can come to Hawaii. But thank you for being my guest today, Aloha. And we'll see you next time.