 And we're live here at 21 studios global command in Orlando, Florida. I'm Anthony Johnson founder of the 21 convention 21 studios Hosted today's red man group Today on the show my masculine gremlins include Socrates here live in Orlando with me Speaker from the 21 convention Carl from black labelogic calm dot of a sharp from the sharp reality upcoming speaker at the 21 convention 2018 in October Richard Cooper from entrepreneurs and cars alumni speaker and upcoming speaker at the 21 convention Rolla Tomasi from the rational male alumni speaker of the 21 convention and again upcoming speaker at the 21 convention and Dr. Shanti Smith clinical psychologist out of Denver, Colorado upcoming speaker at the 21 convention gentlemen. Thanks for joining me Yeah, thanks for having us. Yeah, good show. It's gonna be a good one. Yeah, this is me pretty epic Yep So what's going on guys before we kick off in today's topic which is understanding dangerous personalities and women What's new in life and work? Okay, well, I guess I'll go ahead and yeah, you know, again, I'm doing my show doing my thing on Donovan sharp calm This week, of course, we had Rolla on on Monday. Yesterday. I actually had Carl from a black labelogic on You know, you know addressing a guy on Twitter who's making some pretty you know some pretty good points And you know, it's always good at this point to you know, we kind of lay down the edict We're not gonna go back and forth and you know getting the Twitter beef, of course, you know, we see that's easier said than done but You know, if you have something to say man, listen, give us a call I mean, we're always up for you know, logical rational discussion and fortunately for us and the guy Jonathan who called in yesterday It was logical. We had our disagreements. It was all good and at the end of the day I felt like we all walked away with you know with a new respect for one another But yeah, I'm working on a few things. I'm gonna get started on my book this month And I am also gonna be launching a mobile app here within the next month month and a half or so Making moves making changes men sweet Richard Yeah So I'm in Pittsburgh. I'm doing a boys weekend a couple friends of mine are our pilots and have their own planes So they wanted to fly down summer that was in one tank range So we ended up in Pittsburgh, which is an interesting little town So we did a little bit of a pub crawl. This is my view this morning Apologize for the sunglasses. We were out pretty late and I'm a little bit hungover I'm a guy that doesn't drink that much But aside from that things going awesome with that with work very pleased with the build out on the channel or community page is almost done and yeah looking forward to talking about some of these crazy personalities and experiences that these great gentlemen are about to share with you guys today Yeah, your channel is kicking ass too right Richard. You're at 110,000 now something like that Yeah, yeah, we passed about a hundred thousand about a month ago So it looks like we're pulling about 10,000 subscribers a month for close to 14 million views in total So yeah, it's it's yeah, it's been an awesome ride so far bad ass Rollo. Oh Let's see just still working on book four kind of dealing with the as a result of all of the drama that went down last week been dealing with a lot of Tradcon women some people like to call them trad tots. I like to just call them Ladies I just I just call them followers because women women women always want to do with the strongest better It's interesting to just to see how that This part of the red pill is sort of Being appropriated. I guess the red pill is a brand being appropriated by another faction Another ideological faction that wants to pretty much just redefine and sanitize what the red pill really What it should mean, but what it doesn't mean Rollo, what's the difference between trad con and and trad thought just so when people are watching? Well, I mean trad con to me is sort of this this ideology where it's it's very consensual stands for traditional conservative Trad taught are these these women who start their own YouTube channels are basically, you know, just this side of camhors, but they Exactly And they pretty much You know develop a following because they're cute and they and they appeal to you or they think that they're appealing to this red pill Manusferian niche and really what they are is they're just what I think Ryan would probably call thirst traps I mean that's the top but I mean that I'm not saying that they're all like that because there's obviously these You know mommy bloggers who want to come up and say that they're You know now that they're at a certain part in their life Usually it's right around or after the what I call the epiphany phase and suddenly they all find Jesus and they want to Live better lives and you know, and suddenly they're done with the bad boys And it's like that like hypergamy never happened for them And so, you know just dealing with that kind of mentality on Twitter lately I posted just a really brief thread and just it just drew like Tread con women like, you know fucking beast of honey But so anyway, I'm doing that I'm actually really busy with my job right now because it's fourth. Well, it was fourth of July weekend So it's So I was doing a lot of work actually and was down in downtown Reno for a while Actually had some time to take some some pretty nice pictures. I think so I got some new pictures coming I'm used to be pressed shots that I just sort of shot on it You know kind of on a whim So that's really what I'm doing right now. Cool Sean. Welcome to the red man group This is probably your second or third time coming on right fourth. Yeah, third or fourth Cool. Yeah, I was always happy to be here I'm just putting in the clinical hours these days a lot of anxiety disorders coming through the gore for some reason But that's those are easy treats Those are women by Jim's. Oh god I'd say 50-50. I'm doing a lot of guys. Yeah. Oh, Sean. You actually started a YouTube channel too, right? Yeah, and I got a I got a video coming up Monday on happy white. Happy white that nonsense And I'm looking at I'm looking at rich with the shades he looks just like his Twitter icon So now when I see his Twitter icon, I'm gonna think he's hungover And Guys you should subscribe to Shanti Dr. Shanti Smith on YouTube, but he's putting out wicked content Yep I've been sharing it actually on our channel using the community features who've been sending some traffic over and I think it's awesome Started channel cool shit. It's fun stuff I'm heading out to Vegas for a few days next weekend one of the things I love about Vegas is that you just get this Unapologetic femininity and masculinity like the fun police just aren't even allowed there and so I don't know I might do a little something out from Vegas on YouTube Nice. It'd be good idea. Damn. What's new with you? Jesus a lot of work Just a slew of work right now It's almost a million dollar projects and got a couple of wins. So there was a big push on that Multiple cold recoveries with that two and a half year old, you know, oh, yeah Unfortunately doing on kind of a major overhaul at the house kind of a 10 year You know renewal of the house a lot of a lot of manual labor You've been working on your book a lot here and finalizing the book You know, so you can believe that yeah this weekend it kind of did the author for a pass got a got a decent set of it And I was starting doing the editing. It's been three years in the making three and a half almost four. Oh damn Shameless. Yeah, I can't believe it's been that long. Yep. Well good things. Good things come when you're patient work hard like that Yeah, you know, you know, at least you get it out there and that's gonna be big 12 years in the making It's a guy is gonna be done in time for the for the crazy party out there. Yeah, absolutely We'll have everybody over at the house and kind of segue that into kind of the book release party Before we get into the show today to you guys some quick announcements First of all, since if you're new watching this on YouTube or anywhere else Make sure you hit the like button that helps you tell YouTube that's awesome video It gets more attention to it and YouTube might even pick it up and promote it So hit the like button and leave a comment chat, you know do the chat and all that or if you're watching later Leave a comment stuff like that. Yeah. Yep. Oh Jesus Also, if you're new to the channel Channel or Twitter or whatever make sure you subscribe or follow and then you can buy tickets to the 21 convention They're still on sale. We have not sold out yet, but we probably will in the next Four or five six seven weeks something like that. We're selling a lot of tickets and it's awesome You can get tickets and the link underneath this video or you can go to the speaker's websites Most of them have links to the tickets including rollo Donovan. I think Richard Cooper all these guys You can also get them by typing in your browser the 21 convention dot or g dot org Finally after the show today live, I will be launching for the first time ever a free new website It's a kind of a personal pet project that I've been working on slowly for quite a while now It's gonna be female psychopath calm I bought it for eight bucks. I couldn't believe nobody owned it And this is gonna be kind of like a aggregate return a king style site that'll be free It's a not-for-profit site. So there's not any direct profit incentive. We're not selling stuff It's to get basically collect best information on the web that I can find from people who focus on dangerous personalities and personality disorders in women and then how you know Hopefully you understand that as a man to navigate the SMP a lot better So it'd be a free site female psychopath calm I've invited all the speakers here that you're seeing today and more to post on it whenever they want as a contributing authors It's up to them to do it and I'd love to have them do it With that said with that said let's get into today's topic of understanding dangerous personalities and women Rollo, did you want to kick that off to help the viewers watching understand its connection to the red pill? Yeah, there's we're gonna have to and maybe shock and help me out with this a little bit We're gonna have to define some terms here. I I've been wanting to do this show for a while because I I've been kind of on the fence and about actually doing a dangerous woman show Way back. I think it was in 2010. I wrote a post called borderline personality disorder and Really to my knowledge that was the first thing in the manuscript that was written about borderline personality disorder I didn't even know what it was For a very long time until I started like people know that I used to I was a double majored in Fine art and psychology and behavioral psychology as part of my studies. I came across borderline personality disorder in the DSM and I I really kind of froze because I had gone through I've gone through a situation with a woman and if you read that that post You get a little bit more detail of that For about three and a half four years of my mid 20s, and it was really one of the worst experiences of my life People want to I think people wanted Marginalize I guess that the experience of dealing with a woman who has this And I think a lot has been put out Like I think I saw what was it a Paul Elon recently has done a series of YouTube videos about Borderlines cluster bees NPDs, which is narcissistic personality disorders, and I think that there is a real want to Minimize or marginalize the effect that this personality type has with guys And so I really wanted to just sort of start off this by like, you know relating what our Experiences are in fact when we get into the call ends I'd like to see if they can get some people who can you know sort of relate their experiences with Borderline personality disorders. I'll tell you the story about my my experience here in a little bit But I think really what we need to do is we sort of need to define terms here first So I mean it's one thing to say that you know a woman is a dangerous personality or you've got a woman who's who's predatory There's I think one of the reasons that there's such confusion about this right now is because the the behaviors of Borderline personality disorder woman are just really I mean unfortunately are Really just amplified Behaviors that we would expect from women today in just you know average society You know an average woman is going to display a lot of these Characteristics and a lot of these behaviors, but certainly not to the extent that a borderline does and I'm just going to use borderline as or you know BPD as a General term right here, but I think that there's a lot of guys who wanted to say and and I think Anthony can really speak to this as well as like there's a lot of guys who just want to say hey, man You know fucking man up and and you know take it on the chin And and you know you need to take responsibility for yourself for dealing with this woman It's like yeah, of course you do but like when you are this, you know beta blue pill guy and you have this Once in a lifetime opportunity to have porn star sex with a woman who actually takes care of herself and Really wants to look that part Because that's what her personality disorder really kind of leads her to because that's how she manipulates men I think that and we'll talk about this as well later. I think had a lot of this blue pill conditioning or this Propensity to you know create these beta men really sets guys up for for this kind of personality disorder And so when I'm watching like Paul eel, I'm talking about oh, you can spot a BPD from a mile away No, you cannot because when you are raised in a blue pill conditioning You think your ships come in you really honest to God think that this this woman is the one for you because she's everything You've ever wanted in a chick and and she fucks like crazy and she's crazy in bed She's crazy out of bed. So I I think I had a little bit Yeah, I think I have a little bit more empathy for guys who are getting out of this situation But when I started riding in the red pill I I was surprised at how Common this actually is and that's why I wanted to have this show so we could sort of just clear the air and say, you know What it's if you got into this situation, and if it changed your life in any dramatic fashion I want to hear about it I think that really just Yeah, in the air here and just sort of sharing our collective experiences about this is really an important step And then also Anthony you're your new site. It's gonna be a very important step Yeah, I think it's necessary for the man is fear and it's about time There's a site like that to aggregate all that information into a single site Yeah, I think it was really powerful when you actually want to actually discuss your relationship with one as well Yeah, it was pretty hardcore. Yeah, absolutely. I have one up to now with my recent keynote address But up to that point that was the most hardcore speech I'd ever given I think we should we should we should certainly define terms first. So like Sean what is the technical DSM definition of a borderline personality disorder as opposed to a What was it a narcissistic personality disorder or as opposed to a cluster B Well cluster B is sort of an old term for just the personality disorders in general And there's the big three that everybody seems to be familiar with there's anti social Which is about two to three percent of the population and it's diagnosed mostly in men But that's probably because the diagnostic criteria pick it up more easily in men It's probably closer to 50 50 men and women and anti social if you're gonna sum it up in a sentence This is a person who sees other people just as a means to an end and they can be very successful any politicians They can be CEOs or they can wind up in prison. There's two ends of that spectrum Narcissistic about six percent of the population and again diagnosed a little more and then but I think again, that's because of Diagnostic criteria the diagnosed that the diagnosis rates are about 25 to 50 percent men and women half and half I think is closer to half and half narcissistic and some not one up in a sentence That's someone who sees other people just as a means to making themselves the center of attention at the center of the world And then the borderline this is the one that just it will destroy a man's life And it's about six percent of the population which is a huge chunk of people You think about a hundred people that you know six of them have fall somewhere on this spectrum of borderline And it's diagnosed about 75 percent of the time women and so to sum this up It's easier to think about borderline from the perspective of the person who has borderline and it is just a chaotic emotional experience where you have that you're driven by this fear of abandonment the fear of being alone and So you get really good at connecting with people right off the bat And that's really what you're talking about with the crazy sex and the very charismatic behavior but the definition of Personality disorders that you can't maintain relationships for very long And so starts out great and this is what makes it such a trap for so many guys is that man you just you're idealized and you feel like you're just the center of the universe and Then one day out of the blue a few months down the road after she's really got her hooks in you Things get crazy and she's having a wild tamper tantrum. She's getting incredibly manipulative She uses all kinds of passive aggressive ways of dealing with you rather than dealing with you directly and Then she pulls it together and there's the big apology and the big honeymoon and everything feels good for a while And then it falls apart again, and then the falling apart gets more and more common to where Guys will just end up where they are just essentially trying to avoid tamper tantrums Let's not forget the crazy makeup sex, right? Angry crazy makeup sex. Oh my god. There's nothing like it now I've got a question for you actually if I can just hop in I've I've read a few times that clinical psychologists tend to avoid try to treat BPD just because they find it untreatable is that Is that what is generally accepted or how do you view that has that been improving too? That's what I've read that it's getting a little better for them Yeah, there's there's great treatment out there The the hard thing about the treatment and I personally don't work with borderline personality disorder It's not because I'm mad at them is just because I can't do it some people some clinicians will say Hey, I'm never gonna work with the child molester, but then others will and my policies I just am not effective and it makes miserable to work with borderline site or any personality disorder So I just can't do it, but I know clinicians. Yeah, I'm in Denver I know a couple people who specialize in working with borderline and There is very effective treatment out there The problem is that the message to the personal borderline is hey You need to change and that's a really difficult message to hear Especially when the main thing that you're worried about as borderline is being abandoned and being rejected And you're getting this message that you're the one with the problem and you need to change what you operate And I've met plenty of people women. I've actually never met a man who I think I'm maybe one man I think fits borderline, but there are plenty of women who really struggle with that but then once they start to Embrace The fact that this list of symptoms that they read online Actually kind of fits their experience and there's then They can start attaching to that label borderline and once they start Accepting the diagnosis then the treatment can be very effective. It takes a long time a lot of work And that's the hard part. What kind of treatment is out there. Is it is it therapy and medication? No, there's a no not well medication if it's mixed up with other things like anxiety disorders depression, which it typically is but the The gold standard treatment is called dialectical behavior therapy it came from this this lady in the 70s 70s and 80s and She put together this wonderful treatment that actually is very effective And it's it's a combination of individual treatment where you're looking at the way the person is coping with Relationships and problems and then a combination group combined with group therapy where several of these people will get usually women again we'll get together and sort of hold each other accountable kind of like a 12-step program and What was the question that is it combined with medication, okay? Yeah, let me yeah, is there you said there's no medication unless there's you know some sort of you know depression anxiety, etc So I guess the answer is no there I wanted to ask you actually where does the borderline and borderline personality come from I've heard it's from borderline Psychotic essentially is that accurate or is that out of date? It was originally named because it was the borderline of I don't remember It was on the borderline between like like sanity and insanity way back in the day But I can't remember exactly what the terms were that's what I read to yeah Yeah, I've got I've actually got a few good questions here from the viewers Hang on Donovan before we get into questions from audience Carl Can you run through some of these stats on mental health disorders and women in general? Independent of cluster bees because you've done a hundred tire series on your blog about this, right? Yeah, and that started with the post entitled how many bitches be crazy that where I ran through The statistics I found was from the American Psychological Association, which gave women at 21.8% of women can be diagnosed within a one-year period with any mental disorder Excluding drug abuse alcohol abuse, right? Yeah, that's I think that was excluded again But then the substance abuse disorders often go hand-in-hand with things like borderline Encyclopathy because they have low impulse control by default But I think what Sean got into which I think it's important to is borderline and the cluster B in general Are often comorbid with other disorders? So if you have someone who is borderline, they may have bipolar disorder ADHD or something else that makes it even worse and The analogy I've used as if you play Russian roulette and you have one round in the chamber and you spin it around you have about It gets a 15.7% chance of shooting yourself in the head with first shot if you go out to a random club And you hit on a girl you have a one-in-five chance of hitting on a borderline Or a woman with a mental problem That is a borderline woman Well, it's even worse because you have much better odds of not shooting yourself with the gun as opposed to a hitting on the woman Fucking hell man But it's a lot but you have to be aware that it's also has to do with diagnostic thresholds Which is one of the things I wanted to point out here because Joan of Aros has this in dangerous personalities that Someone doesn't have to be at the threshold of you being able to diagnose them in a clinical setting to be dangerous or Handful a person who has three or four of the criteria But doesn't quite fit the level to be diagnosed can still be very difficult to deal with and very dangerous Yep, yeah He actually was a speaker at the 21 convention last year and his talk will be on the channel fairly soon His books also right here too the Carl's talking about dangerous personalities I should also mention that Carl is actually the reason Joe ended up speaking at the convention Because Carl's the one who put me on to his work. So big thanks for that. He was a huge speaker last year Retired Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be awesome. I mean we saw it live a lot of us. Rola was there Ryan was there and stuff like that. I think rich saw it too, right? Yeah In between the talks, you know talking it's just specifically about that. Yeah about, you know, Obviously the body language and everything else. Yeah, you focus on body language I asked him to do a talk on dangerous personalities, but he was like, I want to do the body language That was kind of the interesting thing about the undercurrent within the convention Was how much of that was going on and being shared at the convention even though there wasn't anybody specifically talking about that You know for the convention itself But that's a good point of the major undercurrents of last year's and the preceding convention Come to think of but we actually haven't had a speech yet at the convention that focuses on dangerous personalities other than sort of mine But uh, let's get on to some other questions that are carl. Did you have more to put in? No, go ahead. Okay. Yeah donovan Donovan, let's put some questions. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm just I mean, I'm sure you guys are too I'm just sort of man in the chat. Uh, one guy asked what are some early signs of bpd If she's sucking your dick within five minutes of making her she's probably bpd Well, then there are a lot of bpd bitches out there that I've made a lot of bpd bitches Before the experts hop in on this, I'll say that one of the ones I pick up on now that I keep an eye out for is hyper-observant Uh bpds in my opinion, they they tune in extremely close to everything in your house everything that you do They'll be probably subtle about it if they're smart, but they're they're tuning into things way too close Above and beyond the average woman because it's like roller said their their behavior is amplified to like a cartoon level One of the things that I noticed guys when it when it comes to kind of sniffing these women out is they tend to have abandonment issues Um, so I often look for daddy issues You know daddy kind of ran off or mommy pushed daddy out of the house sort of thing But that's usually one of the early signals that I find too Definitely that was that was true for the for the woman that I was with She had a really rough childhood and some history of sexual abuse according to her You know hated her dad Really hated her uncle because that was the guy that ended up sexually abusing her But you know, it's interesting that It's interesting how they throw that out there as sort of this not not really a warning per se, but just sort of as something that That they overcome like it's it's it's interesting how they say. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm beyond that, you know I I am who I am right now and they're very proud of themselves for having pushed past that even though They really haven't pushed past that because you're going to hear about that abuse later on When once you're locked in once you're locked into the the great sex and the you know, like I said crazy in and crazy out Of bed, but uh, yeah, I would say that that is definitely a commonality Yeah, one of the one of the things that I pick up on is that she is just too perfect Um, a lot of times, you know, you're seeing a girl for a week Maybe 10 days and you think to yourself. Oh my god, this girl is everything I have ever wanted And most of the time you never tell a woman exactly what you want But just like uh, just like anthony said She's hyper observant if she sees like if she sees certain things or notices things in your mannerisms Your body language your responses to certain verbal and nonverbal cues women with bpd will like like they can they can translate that So they can translate your actions into into what your thoughts are and they they just become way too perfect And to piggyback off of what rollo said if a woman says that she was raped or sexually abused And listen, there's no way to know if she's telling the truth But either way she's radioactive. She's I mean it doesn't matter because if it's not true Then it's only a matter of time before she accuses falsely accuses you of rape or falsely accuses somebody else of rape But if she was really raped or sexually abused as a kid, I mean, there's nothing you could do She's going to make your life a living hell inevitably That's also a springboard for guys who are like I was saying before If you're if you're a beta and if you're very blue pill conditioned, this woman seems like an oasis in the desert Yes, these guys nothing brings out the white night in a guy Like a bpd because it's like oh, she was she was abused. She's you know, but she's passed that and she's really really into me She's hyper observant. She's really into the things that I do and she's this dream come true. She's really super sexual. She's really gorgeous I you know You think that your ship has come in because like I said, they seem like this oasis in this desert of You know, you're putting yourself out there. You are constantly approaching women or if you're are if you are in any way in the sexual marketplace and you're receiving rejection and suddenly you receive sort of this acceptance from a gorgeous what I call a genetic celebrity They you believe that the fantasy is true and then from there they build up that fantasy about themselves in you So you're willing to do fucking anything for them. You're really Because beyond just the physical or sexual they'll they'll nap to your political beliefs your And they literally are skinning themselves around you and the issue is they're going looking for you You know, you're their type for a reason where the mark Yeah, well, it's not just a mark. It's it's a lot more than that You know, there's a relationship between you know co-dependent and independent and when you're dealing with these personalities They're looking for safe harbor in which they can operate manipulate and spill safe and secure and doing that Particularly if they have abandonment issues and they're going to fortify that position And that means initially building you up to make sure you're in the position to do that for them Of course later on you're going to fail and it may it's amazing how that light switch goes on When you go from everything in their world to absolutely zero And if like speed even worse Yeah, like one of the things that they end up doing is they'll go from very very hot to frigid sometimes Often in the span of a day It's sometimes even less than that. We should get we should get shawning too here I want to give you let me throw out one thing to really to to really watch for and rich just touched on just a second ago It's called splitting and it's an inability to see Shades of grain other people so when you think about a little kid Like a little toddler or a little baby and think about what their emotional states are There's a couple of emotional states. They're really happy. They're really upset or they're kind of neutral feeling okay and as as a person matures they start to develop more subtle shades of emotions and also they start to view the world In more subtle ways like things aren't just all good or all bad They become a mix of good and bad by the time you hit your teens and your 20s You should have this down solid and one of the things to watch for in women Is the same called splitting where they view other people in very black and white terms so a person is all good or they're all bad and Sometimes so that's going to show up in the way she relates to you in the sense that you will be idealized in the beginnings That's what feels so wonderful because the way she sees you she's I don't she's usually not being manipulative she sees you as The greatest thing in the universe and then the moment you disappoint her you go from an angel to a devil And that so when you get this feeling of being idealized by a woman right off the bat That's a huge red flag, but you can also see it If you look at the people around her the way she talks about Her friends and her family and her associates this person's good That person's bad. My boss is great. My co-worker is an asshole This this black and white left and right Everybody's an angel or a devil and you can also see in their history of relationships If you get them talking they'll start telling you about how this relationship fell apart that relationship fell apart And there's always a common denominator there that they're not saying which is for whatever reason I suddenly decided to hate this person And it's acute and there are no you know very limited friendship depths They don't have lifelong friendships They're cycling through groups of friends go because they have to because they absolutely particularly a lack of friends with the same sex Isolation is part of the gig Not only that you'll you'll notice that a lot of girls and just look at their facebook pages if they're sloppy about covering their tracks Anytime a woman just shows up and listen vegas is notorious for this Anytime a woman just shows up out of the blue. Well, where are you from from cleveland? Well, what brought down here family stuff a lot of times girls will try to leave their pasts behind to try to cover their tracks because They've caused so much wreckage and carnage They're looking for a new beginning because the jig is up whatever town they lived in So they're looking for they're looking for sort of a new fresh host where people don't know who they are So if a girl has sort of a lack of history doesn't really talk about family and friends Just like socrates says no lifetime friendships. That would be a red flag for me And it's amazing they'll actually tell you if you ask and sit down and not just sort of like Oh, you're raped and how was that but to actually continue that conversation along and then measure that they will absolutely tell you I've always been stunned at how much I just ignored the sign that a lot of times It was literally draped across a woman's chest Of not picking it up and I always took that on my responsibility because that's something that I did is I didn't see the sign And my life improved when I just I recognized the sign and rolled the fuck out You mean the uh the screaming the screaming narrative you call it too, right? Yeah, absolutely I give spot it look for it and then I was gonna say it's I'll uh, I'll I guess I'll just go ahead first here I I saw that the question in the the chat about is like it sounds like it's this is normal female behavior Unfortunately, yes, you're right. It is it does sound a lot like normal female behavior And I think that that's one of the reasons why It's difficult and we need shows like this and we need this sort of group understanding because It seems it seems like well, this is just how crazy bitches are, you know, this is just how a crazy woman is and Unfortunately in this day and age where we have conditioned women into this sort of entitlement ideology Where we have conditioned women to think in you know As if they're like super deserving of something and that everybody you know in in an age of like me too Where everybody's supposed to believe them about everything? Yeah, it's really hard and that's one of the reasons why I was kind of I don't want to say I was upset with the guy, but I I was just kind of like looking at some of this stuff from paul elam and You know granted the guy Came up with some pretty good stuff Uh, but I I don't think it is as easy as He would like to make it out to be to spot this because in this day and age. Yes seeing this kind of behavior And understanding the difference between, you know, just regular average women acting and the way that that a bpd woman acts That's what makes it so So difficult. That's what makes it you that's why guys get trapped up in this I'm sure that like when when anthony was You know meeting his bpd. I'm just gonna call our medusa for right now Um I'm sure that you thought your ship had come in I'm sure that you thought that this was going to be the the one for you or the the great You know the great love of your life because here she is and she looks like a porn star And she's fantastic in bed and she she actually That was the case in some ways and none others for example, she didn't have plastic surgery till about two years And that's that's a big one. She didn't have it initially. Yeah, so that wasn't there and I actually banged her friend the day after her Yeah, baby. There you go. The jokes on you madusa I'm actually talking to socrates a couple days later on the phone because I had the option to like bang Her friend or madusa again because I banged both of them at this point without knowing for certain that they were friends yet I found that out about a month later And I remember talking to sock and I was like, you know, I like the redhead better I don't want I really want to go bang her even though they're friends even more about me And i'm like, no, I'll bang the redhead and sock was on the phone. It's a guy. She banged the redhead go do it So it was It's a whole I need to write a blog about it really some of the uh the details of how this went down because it was fucking I think it was bizarre in some ways Honestly, man, you probably do a book if I could just Chime in for a sec because donovan touched on something that I don't want to let disappear he mentioned that um Bpd women tend to kind of run away from something like they'll move from whatever Vegas to Cincinnati and the experience that I had a few times was um And this was bizarre. It was it was women leaving, uh, you know, big cities in canada and going to japan to teach english And it was like, oh, so what were you running away from and there was always something behind that story that they were leaving I'm just wondering if shon, you got any insight on that from your clinical experience On the checking out from reality or checking out Yeah, like like checking out and disappearing from one part of the world and flying halfway around the other side to Leave whatever issue they were running from Nebraska to amsterdam or something That's how madu signed it up in florida See there we go I never really thought about it but it it would fit with this ability to just Turn people off and they go from the angel to the devil and I can see where a person will be able to Just turn off their entire situation as a bad situation rather than dealing with it and seeing as a mix of good and bad Just vacate, but I've never given that much thought I've given it actually quite a bit of thought uh, not a huge amount But I thought about it and like kind of like shon's saying it fits the way they treat people So physically what you're seeing is them turn everyone off and move across the country or across the world And like I said, that's that's how madusa ended up in florida. She wasn't from florida. She was from michigan Uh, you know, whatever the fuck happened up there. She ended up in florida pretty much in kilargo Almost as far south as you can get Yeah, I guess now that Sorry, anthony, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Yeah Well, I guess now that I'm thinking about one of the experiences of the borderline is that not Sometimes it's that they are shutting everybody else out But sometimes it's that everything around them is falling apart their relationships It just can't maintain them and so I I can see where if all your relationships are falling apart Yeah, good answer might just be to pick up and go somewhere else It's a lot like the red pill talks about to enroll and everyone Action's not words So their actions are like reflecting their their real life behavior and thoughts And then you see them physically move 2000 miles across the world or something Well, I lived with a borderline for about two little over two years. Oh my god Sounds fun. Yeah. Yeah, I have a lot. I have a great story about that the late that I'm going to tell later but anyway The thing that I noticed is they have a certain Period of time where where they can keep shit together and depending on how bad they are Some can keep it together for three months. Some can keep it together for a couple of years I tend to say that 24 months is how long you should date a woman before you other move in because very few crazy women Are able to keep the mask off for two years straight without you seeing anything But what I wanted to get at this their lives are falling apart in every area their Relationships is just one area they often struggle with holding down jobs because they start hating their co-workers Or they split their co-workers their family and anything so Borderline is a lot like a forest fire. It just keeps burning after them and they just burn everything Behind them and they move to a new city because you know, they banged every guy in the town they were in All the major employers have gotten a sexual harassment suit or some issue with them They have no friends left and no family left because they burned all those bridges because they have to have conflict in their life It's almost as if their life is unbalanced if they don't have someone they can hate Yeah, they're trying to fill a void Let's get rolling I just I'll just quickly relate to what I went through and now this is back when I was in my early 20s like 23 years old and I think that the borderline that I was with she I met her at the community college that I was going to at the time This is sort of in my my rock star 20s and I was Really as alpha as I had ever been at that point and she brought me down To a state where I was certainly beta. If not gamma or I didn't even know what the hell the The proper technology. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I was like, I mean at it just incrementally went along, you know, because here's this Here's this woman who was very, you know, very good-looking very sexual Really kind of my idealized, you know, pretty little blonde with a perfect ass and was, you know Would would wear the lingerie for you And which was interesting because like up until that point I didn't have any trouble really picking up on on women at that point because I was like said a lot of social proof It was I was a semi professional rock guy in Hollywood at the time I didn't have any trouble picking up women But when I saw her there was just something about her, you know, I mean it was just the way we were Connecting it was and then here's the other thing is like I was used to really easy sex back then I was used to being able to go to a club and play a gig and go home with my choice of winning that particular time Now with her it was different because she held out. She's like, you know, she didn't want to have sex right away She was trying to you know to To sort of spoon feed me a little bit to keep me on the hook But not to push me away and then when we finally did have sex then it was fantastic crazy good sex But then after it it's like She made me feel guilty that we had had sex Because she had that background of you know, of course, I didn't know at the time But she had the background that's when she springs on the other. Oh, I was abused by my uncle or I was, you know I didn't want to do this. I'm trying to to Trying to live a better life kind of thing and then Would go from that, you know, guilting you For her problems to going back to being super sexual again So it was like this hot cold hot cold kind of thing and then so after a while I think we already touched on this A bpd including mine will isolate you from your friends. I mean and I mean really isolate you from the stuff that you love to do Anything that doesn't revolve around her anything that isn't Isn't about her if you're Yeah, and I'm a guy with a lot of a lot of interests and a lot of hobbies And so I had to give I had to give up so much stuff just to to float that relationship to keep things going because anything that would That I would be into just by myself became a threat to her Because it was keeping attention away from her and she did she hated my family just like almost immediately And so wanted to separate me and pull me away and isolate me from my family certainly isolate me from my friends She herself only was dealing with her mother who was also very very psychotic I I think we were talking about how this is a heritable Condition, I'm fairly certain she got it from her mother And then it got to the point. I mean I got I got to beat Carl Sorry, I was about three and a half almost four years And this is in my mid 20s And this is one of the reasons why I made such a big deal about this on the rational males because I Really invested a lot of my prime growing years in my 20s Uh, I I got sidetracked I got tar pitted by by this by this bpd because I couldn't figure it out I didn't know what was going on And I was still although I was alpha when it came to going and picking up women I was still very blue pill conditioned And so I still had that idea that I wanted to uh I wanted to make it right and I wanted to have a really good relationship with you know In a long term with a woman who was just like her of course because she she really got me And she really wanted to be with me a bit, you know, then You know tacitly she's you know isolating me from my family And she's really just it got down to a point where I'm just seeing her all the time It was go to work go to school and see her and that's all and I stopped playing in bands I stopped worrying about myself I I gave up on myself because I was always trying to figure out How to make her happy how to content this person And to to find some way to get her back to that high like Sean was saying to get to In some ways, I think it's a really kind of like a manic depression kind of situation But she would also get very very I mean crazy jealous of of anything that wasn't about her and god forbid We would be out somewhere even just seeing a movie or going to a restaurant and an attractive woman would walk by And you know my eyes might just Shift to slightly to the left to check this check out And that was the end of the night. That was like, oh you want to fuck her? You know, it was just this crazy I mean jealousy of like I've never even of course the red pill response would be well. Yes. I do Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it is but like at that I'm so I'm so To her Problems and I made it my duty to Solve them because now at this point, you know, probably two years in Uh, I'm I'm completely isolated and I'm I'm believing that I am the source of her problems Like if I could change myself somehow That she would find me acceptable and things would be okay And I didn't realize at that point that that That wasn't ever going to happen. She was never ever going to be satisfied I kept thinking oh She's going to mature out of it and once she gets a little older and she you know Once we've been together and once we have a better shared history then things are going to be different It never ever to the day we finally split up It never materialized and then of course later on She starts cheating on me and telling me it's my fault that she's cheating on she's cheating on me And it's it's always about whoever is the victim or the you know, the host organism, I guess And I again like when I finally got back into college because I had pretty much given up on myself and given up on any ambition Because my my highest goal was just to make her happy Uh, I finally got back into college and I finally started making myself my own mental point of origin Yet one more reason why I say that that's very important Rola, you just basically described the six year relationship that I had in my 30s And and here's the thing how common is this we're having this show I I best of my I posted the link in my to my my essay in the in the chat Uh, it's crazy crazy common And yeah, everyone in the chat is like, yeah, you're describing my relationship And so so you want to say well, how do you separate from the average woman? That's how you separate and it I mean to the point where it's like even after she cheated on me I'm thinking well, it must have been my fault how why oh, you know Why am I such a schmuck because she cheated on me? And so I'm building it into myself that I am the source of her problems And if I could change myself to make myself more perfect for her Then it would change the relationship and then I will be happy because I've made her happy So I had a I had a lot of the same experiences with Medusa Rola Um, but my personality, I guess in experience with purple pill and the pickup stuff It put me in a position where I was still willing to go along with a lot of this But then I would be very very resistant to it. So for example when I caught when I found that the Medusa was cheating Uh, I knew how big my dick was statistically. So I found out I'm like, well He must have been fucking guys with smaller dicks and then I was like, he must be fucking retarded Uh, Anthony before you kind of go down that path. I think it's important to frame exactly What Medusa was up to during the entire period of time Um, we did a a talk on my channel about how to spot a female psychopath But it's it's more than just cheating, right? Like tell everybody what all happened briefly Yeah, so there's a lot the biggest one of the biggest things not only the cheating But in her case she's been a prostitute or a high-end call girl for like at this point, uh, 15 16 years And I had no idea that was going on before the relationship during the relationship during the unofficial marriage anything like that So that was a lot of it. Uh, the lying was I found out rampant, uh, compulsive pathological She lied about a lot of stuff constantly things like high-level obviously cheating and prostitution but also little stuff Things that uh, you wouldn't even see a normal person lie about Because there's no fucking reason to lie about it. So lying about things compulsively because it's not within their control in my opinion There's some other stuff too that I've talked about privately with you guys, uh, some violence that was not directed at me Uh, I don't want to get into it too much. Uh, because I don't have evidence of it But there was some and uh, when I figured that out at the end it was Beyond startling Also, I found a huge knife hidden behind the wall And uh, I ended up calling the sheriff's department sock was on the phone And there was like some blood on it and they rushed it over and stuff like that I never actually knew if it was hers, but she had owned that she had been in that house for years And a large scale buoy honey knife concealed in a wall cavity specifically inside of a closet down lower right Absolutely addressed it to be concealed. This is Yeah, and I was not just sort of hey, I've got something put over here in a night drawer This was intentionally concealed I was actually on the phone with the sheriff's department and I said that I'd find a murder weapon hidden behind the wall And they were very startled like why do you call it a murder weapon? I'm like, well, why else would you hide a giant knife behind the wall with blood on it? Like, yeah, right So that's that actually is still in their possession and I had to give like a statement on it and got a swender open stuff like that Um, so there's a lot of little stuff like that and you can also watch the video on richer cooper's channel that we did I did it richard Just how to spot a female psychopath and I gave a speech on it marrying the dusa That's also on youtube and elsewhere on the web. You can check out So I want to jump in on this because um, there there's a theme here in the conversation and it's Really easy to be angry at borderlines and I know because I've been very angry at at some borderlines in the past But it's it's more effective. I think to understand what's going on in their head And a lot of what's what you guys are talking about like robo talking about given up His his life to make her happy and the violence that you're talking about and it all falls under this category of emotional regulation And part of the borderline experience, which is a really incredibly painful experience is just this tremendous Chaotic emotional turmoil that's going on all the time. It's very difficult to manage And that's where a lot of the behavior comes from and so one of the ways to manage that And incidentally you see this on a large scale on college campuses right now, which is um, I can't manage my emotions So i'm going to manage your behavior And hopefully me managing your behavior will give me a calmer emotional experience And so all of this stuff that you're talking about is geared toward changing managing your behavior In an effort to manage the emotional state and that's that's interestingly the thing that you see on the college campuses Like I can't tolerate your ideas and the the emotions that they bring up Shut you up. Well, but when you say manage though, you mean control Uh, essentially right they want to control your behavior. Well, they want to control your behavior to manage their emotional experience. Yeah yep Yeah, and I've I've thought for a while that uh So I I do see you're staying too with anger and I did feel angry for a long time That has dissipated significantly since the two and a half years since my break with medusa Um, and I've come to understand that if she was born with these things and had a shitty childhood And was abused, you know egregiously as a child That's not her fault But I also still hold her accountable as an adult to not even with the personality disorder and stuff to not make these decisions Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of the treatment is Developing that accountability because that's one of the major pieces that's missing but as far as looking for warning signs And a woman it's that you watch her behavior. She's Man if she's controlling other people's behavior Then there's a really good possibility that she's trying to manage her own emotional experience It's not the only explanation, but it's a it's in the top three probably So they're basically like offloading their own emotional instability to other people through control if i'm understanding that Yeah, because their emotional experience is just too painful Okay. Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense Here's a question Now I just wanted to piggyback on what shown what's saying about controlling other people and I think that's one of the um situations where you want to be really Observant because one of the things that happens is if someone every time you cough for instance punches you in the shoulder Then you'll start to over time. You'll start to Be hyper aware of your own state so you can kind of close yourself down So you don't cough and get punched in the shoulder And this is what the borderlines do because the tantrums and the reactions to your behavior are so violent That whenever you get one you become hyper aware of what costs it and then you avoid doing that And you end up with a smaller and smaller and smaller box of behavioral Things you can do and one of the things that you have to do afterwards is you actually have to relearn That it's okay to disagree with people you actually find yourself having adopted a bunch of habits Not because they're productive, but just to keep her reasonably calm Yeah, really well said And one of the things I throw in a little story here, which I call these time I almost got stabbed when I was brushing my teeth and and that was I'd found this technique that some they recommend called gray rock Which is you don't give the borderline any form of feedback on their negative behavior You just ignore it you act as if it's not happening And she she woke up in a mood that morning and she started in on it and started to try and provoke me And I just decided okay. I'm not going to give her a reaction period So this entire day no matter where I went she was after me and she kept picking I'm wanting to have a major fight And then at the end of the day, I didn't even talk to her just acted as if she didn't exist I walked into the bathroom and I started brushing my teeth And I feel something cold against my back and she's standing there with one of the kitchen knives Kind of poking me in the back and going Hey, I've been trying to talk to you all day either respond to me. I'm going to stab you. Oh wow damn Damn, that was the that was the last that was the worst thing is I stayed for two months after that. That's the worst part Wow Oh man You know, it's it's just so amazing that that men can have this knowledge and awareness and still walk into the fucking slaughterhouse for another Two more months, right? That's the power. Listen, that's the power pussy like if we're gonna, you know, take all the psychological stuff Nami listen man, pussy's a powerful thing, especially especially for men who don't know Well, they're really sick and self-sacrifice. You know, I was raised on that shit But we in the home in the military in in architecture school self-sacrifice That was one of the things too. I mentioned in my speech about marrying medusa was I was uh I had adopted the philosophy of objectivism years before I met her and she did try a lot of things Specifically, rola was getting at I know exactly what he's talking about Uh, the basic with her eating weight your soul That's very loose science, but that's kind of how it feels Objectivism the philosophy that mine ran teaches you to not self-sacrifice explicitly and uh Brutally so to speak And so even at the end there was a point where she said, uh, you never sacrificed anything for me Right to my face and I was like, yeah, that's absolutely right the hell do you think I was gonna do? We're like we were arguing but I'm like, yeah, what the hell did you think like if this is who I am? This is public knowledge. We've had your on brook speak at the convention So it was a lot of it was a lot of what rola went through but it would get like this very harsh Almost sociopathic pushback from me Not understanding what I was dealing with just almost like confused like why the fuck would this person Even ask me that question knowing my philosophy knowing how much I care about it And she claimed to have read and loved and ran the fountain head all that and there's some treats of that and she exaggerated But yeah, no she did read the fountain had I found evidence in her email When we were still together she gave me access to her email and I was able to see emails about the fountain head I'm if you loved it with her mother and stuff like that Okay, I knew there were certain things where she got basic storylines Basically, she was obsessed with the personality as I ran would make the two fictional characters But she never understood or cared about the philosophy at all So she was all about the power that the characters had from the fountain head and now the structure character rather than the philosophy but the philosophy She didn't get the flying fuck and this is actually very common about uh people personality disorders They are attracted to effectiveness and knock on wood Yeah, I just want to I just want to throw this out there real quick because I'm seeing I knew this was going to come up in the chat too. It's like why don't you guys sack the fuck up and Well, how could you be so stupid not to see? Oh, yeah, of course. Listen everybody Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean hindsight is always 2020 my friend Especially in the chat room, right? Well, that's one of the reasons and it's not just a chat room because I get this all the time This is actually one of the reasons why I was a little hesitant to do this show because When anthony does a video about medusa and he goes and he talks about this and we talk about dangerous women It sounds like guys are complaining. It sounds like we're the victims, right? And and we're never supposed to fucking be the victims, right men are never Supposed to be a fucking victim and if you are it's your own damn fault and you're not owning it and you're not taking responsibility for Great, fine. You know what? I'm I'm taking responsibility for being a blue pill chump back in the day But guess what? I don't want to see Other guys put a noose around their neck or a gun in their mouth because they couldn't figure this shit out Because as as socrates was saying they live this life of servitude They're brought up from you know being these these young men or these boys And they're taught to pedestalize woman kind And to pedestalize any woman, especially their most ideal woman that just walks in through the door and suddenly wants to You know make all their dreams come true, but she actually makes all their night nightmares come true I don't want to see those guys get hurt and that's one of the reasons why i'm kind of like You know what? Fuck it. If if uh, if anthony wants to go and create this What website or whatever to collect everyone's experiences? Fine, please do and you know what? I'm not going to say you're a victim I mean that's on you if you if you got if you dwell on it and you and you stay, you know Completely, you know Enraptured by the whole thing where it's it's controlling your life up to this point. Yeah, that's on you But you know what? I'm out of it. I'm a better person for it I've written three books because of it, you know, it's because it's because of those really super pit of misery Experiences that I can sort of come out of that and I can be a better person because of it But that doesn't mean everybody else can and that doesn't mean we just don't talk about it Or we just go. Oh, well, that's just all women. No, that's not all women I can remember the day I read in the dsm about borderline personality disorder And I got a cold fucking chill down my spine because I was like, holy shit. This was her And everything that fit fit into that. I mean just to the fucking letter It just blew me away. I couldn't believe that I That you know the bullet that I was like, you know, we don't talk about divine providence or whatever It was an act of God. I got out of there because I especially the state that I was in It had to get so bad to such a point that I that even I would leave And I'm I'm fortunate that I did not kill myself over that and I just think that it's not really fair to say Well, you should have just seen better. Well, you know what? 80 90 percent of guys these days are blue pill conditioned betas. They're not going to see this and that's why you need to have this conversation Let me hop in here. First of all, I endorse everything Girola just said like you fucking nailed it Second one thing I wanted to mention earlier based on the last thing you just said is in my opinion There's only two kinds loosely speaking there's only two kinds of men They're going to be able to spot this stuff or probably a few but the two that I focus on Guys who grew up in the ghetto like a true american ghetto or somewhere else in the world where you had a really fucking tough childhood Or you grew up in a really well, uh, well parentish childhood like someone like tanner guzzy and like a really hyper Very very tight-knit community like the Mormons outside of those two A lot of so many guys are blue pill conditioned. You're easily set up for this even the purple pill guys I think they're even more I think purple pill guys are even more set up for this and the blue pill guys because they have just enough red pill awareness to like Get themselves into this mess and kind of like, uh, not be able to not be able to I can't look can't get out exactly He's found the guy attractive Exactly you were a solution to her need or boy. Yeah, you know blue and blue pill guys typically are not even a solution to their own Yeah, they're not interested. They need they need some level of uh, they need some more intensity Let me ask you a question. Sean. Where does this come? Where does bpd come from? Is it something you're born with? Is it a catalyst or a cause like is it an event in a person's life that turns them bpd like how does this happen? Um, I think everything is nature and nurture. We want to wreck it up into one or the other and um with with these types of with personality disorders Um, there's some evidence that antisocial personality disorder. You just got it or you don't it's a biological thing With borderline in in my experience and a little bit of research that I know it's a predisposition. I mean you can Somebody can grow up in a perfect environment and still end up very borderline Or you could have somebody's sort on the borderline a borderline where They have the predisposition, but it's the environment and it's usually trauma that kicks it off And I would guess that that's the more common scenario So so so you're so you're saying that if you are genetically predisposed to bpd You know, it would take maybe a traumatic of maybe a traumatic event to sort of I guess set this off Yeah, a lot of times it's all right a lot of times they have a history of just some ugly trauma Simply used as children and so forth one more question On this because I actually read a study a while back That looked at the heritability of various personality disorders and they found that borderline personality had the highest heritability whereby if one parent had borderline personality disorder Child of that family had a 56 chance of having it a female child I don't know the exact study, but I'll find this I take find the Link if someone wants it, but I think it's if you have the biological disposition and you grow up with a borderline mother You will have both nurture and nature in a beautiful perfect storm of how to create a crazy bitch Because her mother's behavior her she mirrors on her mother as a role model Plus her mother will create chaos plus a little known fact is that borderline women are often attracted to extreme narcissists and psychopaths So if you take that into if you have a borderline mother and a psychopath father Well, if there is a case for eugenics, that would probably be it Jesus I advocated in my talk for learning how to avoid them so that they eventually just bred out But they're free to keep breeding with each other, of course, but I don't think they're attracted to each other I think they're usually repelled Maybe the problem with that though Anthony is that is that you know like a lot of these borderlines? They're like sirens, right? Like they just oh, yeah, they prey on high value successful men And I don't think we're ever gonna stop Stop the breeding of poor, you know borderlines or probably not But if you're a borderline mother, I mean, you know, you're gonna you're definitely gonna lock down to do He's gonna fall under the spell He's gonna reproduce to the you know, you have a few more kids, you know, it's easy to pass that down It's you know, it's the reason why you know people in the comments are saying right now Well, you know, isn't that pretty much every woman? Well, it's not pretty much every woman But there's a good part of the population that men have experienced Um, where they're going. Yeah, that sounds like my story whatever number of years ago sort of thing It's like, you know, it just passes on through time Yep Yeah, I was gonna say too that in my opinion a lot of uh, mythological creatures like sirens and succubuses and stuff like that They come from women like this in the past for yeah, they're highly seductive highly seductive women Absolutely, I don't know if Carl or Sean had any opinions on that But that's that's I I can't imagine where else those kinds of female creatures came from without, you know, 5000 years ago or whatever Yeah, I I can't imagine where they come from either and they are incredibly seductive Yep I gotta say I I have a I'll I have a post coming up probably this weekend I guess it's going to be about uh women in the supernatural and I actually cover a little bit of that The silence and that I look forward to it. Nice Carl, do you have something put in? Yeah, I actually have a suspicion of where personality disorders come from Because one of the funny things if you study biology is that For pretty much every disease humans can get there's like maybe a percent of the population that are immune to it They even found some prostitute. I think in Africa somewhere who's immune to HIV AIDS and I think it's kind of a security mechanism to ensure that the species lives So with the psychopath you basically have the perfect survival machine because they're only focused on their own needs Their own survival, they're not going to stop running to say the kid They're not going to stop to help anyone else. They're going to make look out for number one And with borderlines, I think you kind of have the you don't notice it until you've slept with them because they're kind of hypergamy and on Overdrive so these are women they have notch counts in the quadruple digits There are notch counts in astronomical numbers because a guy will sleep with them and You know, you're not that hard to ask like if a woman really goes after you you're not going to ask any questions You're going to be like, oh great Make my night easier and that's not a problem for them Because men don't discriminate that way and maybe it's on some level that quick mating bonding discarding is A useful survival advantage in some situations like in wars This is why I think that females with borderline do more damage Well, do more damage widespread than men because pussy is more powerful than dick, right? Like men will fight for pussy harder than women will fight for dick because it's just it's it's just more plentiful I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Well, dick is deep. I mean, it's everywhere for women, right? Let me let me see this tape before sean huppson So richard mentioned earlier the tornado cox from my experience What he was getting at is that medus and I had sex in some form almost every day for four and a half years In addition to that she was cheating in addition to that she was In some frequency escorting essentially So it never occurred to me having sex with her every day somehow that she would also take the effort to cheat And be a prostitute You know in triplicate air It's just a hyper sexuality that like I feel I'm pretty high up in libido for even a 29 year old or whatever, but It's just like damn Like you really want to and that's because it's well they amplify like rollo was saying they're amplifying female behavior to like cartoon or You know super high levels Yeah It really is Yeah, and don but I think you're right I think that the qualities that you see in a borderline from the outside are are much more attractive to men Especially the blue pill white knight like there's somebody that you can really relate to and key in on But those same qualities when you have them at man They're not so attractive to women that's sort of coming on strong and hyper sexual and idealizing right off the bat That's kind of a turn off Right, right at the same time though We see the converse because if you look at the study some of this men with narcissism and antisocial personality disorder are much more sexual sexually Successful than normal men Right No, I agree. But the most sexually successful man is not having nearly as much sex as the most sexually successful women Like the hottest guy is not sleeping with Nearly as many women as the hottest girl is sleeping with men like women are always going to have notch counts You know seven eight nine ten folded men Yeah, and those external markers for things like antisocial personality or yeah Antisocial and narcissistic those tend to be the things that women are kind of drawn to that confidence that that many like I expect the world to go my way Dark tried personality traits essentially I'm just wondering if we can switch gears guys over to some of the other dangerous personalities that Navarro talks about in his book like Instability, you know, for example I've got a couple of colors on the life you want to if we want to take those if kids want to go ahead and get Yeah, we should probably I mean I've been talking for a while. All right, cool. Yeah. Yeah, we'll we we'll run our mouths while they're on the line Area code six one two. You're on with the red men. Go ahead Hi, can you hear me? Uh, yeah Oh, very good. Um, so, uh, I guess it's the classic, uh, longtime listener first son caller Yeah, I was married, um twice and my second marriage was to a bpb and uh, I think one of the things that You know, I repeat a lot of what people are saying here, but one of the things you'll is the just the big difference so I went from essentially starfish twice a month sex that had even dwindled from that to um, just, you know, incredible sex all the time everywhere anywhere um, and so there's this sort of extreme Extreme difference and they idealize you so you you just you have you sort of run up these these really get these very big Highs and then when they split As as the psychologist saying they split and they kind of flip back and make you a bad person And then you crash and then they won't talk to you. They'll treat you badly and uh, and then you'll come back up again Uh, it'll flip back to your idealized. And so you have this constant, uh, You know flip back and forth between your idealized and and you're a bad person So you and what happens is it turns out you get addicted to that It turns out if you have intermittent, um, you know positive reinforcement That's actually very addicting Because when you're in that sort of dark area where they're ignoring you you want that that good stuff And especially if you come from kind of a blue full very very vulnerable background. So, um So to me the biggest issue I thought there was a lot of color and great is how do you detect these people? And so this isn't so much a question But the way I really nailed that the woman I was with was bpd is I finally noticed she was doing something called self mutilating So this is a classic and What they do yeah, so so what they do is they uh, you'll do the sometimes they'll do cutting So young girls are often, you know taking razors into kind of doing light They're sort of they're cutting on their arms And so what my bpd would do is she would dig her fingernail into the the fingers of the other other side of the other other hand Um, and this you're talking under the under the nail Say again Underneath the fingernail Design I've seen that where they don't want to show it like a lot of times it'll be on their arms or be on their legs But at the other one, they'll actually dig it underneath their fingernails So in terms of his question though, I have a book that's really cool that uh, I haven't seen promoted too much Or if you guys can see it's called super normal stimuli This is a really cool book that it helped you in my opinion. It's not designed to but it would help you spot dangerous woman The basis is that any uh I'm not I don't even explain it perfectly but basically like for example And this doesn't mean every woman with plastic surgery is crazy We get into that later, but I don't believe that's the case But for example, uh, like fake breasts are basically like donuts to a man like 5 000 years ago living in the middle africa So any any kind of super normal stimuli though. So super dyed hair that's super bright. Uh, it's a red flag Uh for this kind of thing in my opinion Plastic surgery can be an easy one. Uh, even though the color of she paints her nails Lipstick stuff like that anything that stands out too much more than the average woman would do Or a lot more is going to be red flags this kind of thing Or at least it's a starting point to get suspicious. Like what is like what I'm actually looking at here So I'd recommend checking out this book. It's pretty cool super normal stimuli And and to go a little bit further beyond that. I mean one of I mean a couple of red flags that I'll also point out to Um, you know with the mutilation part is I mean things like, you know, like heavily heavily tattooing Um obvious piercings, you know face piercings, you know, shit like that I mean, you know, when you see like a row of like, you know Earrings all the way down here or like that bridge of the nose or up here in the eye It's like, you know, too much of that it's like you start to wonder, you know, this guy's talking about nails You know, like digging in your nails or even like cutting their wrists and things like that Uh, that is another form of body mutilation is is putting that much metal in your body and heavily tattooing it And it's normalized and it's normalized because there is a symptom of bpb hiding in plain sight and people don't pick up on that I guess expressing herself. No, that's Yeah, my my bpb digs pretty much the same thing with the nails and stuff and there was a time I could remember whenever she was like really super angry. She would like try to dig her nails like into my forearms, too Damn My experience was the opposite. Medusa's body had zero tattoos zero piercings except on the ears And she used that one under belly buttons to get rid of it I think she also had npd or had symptoms of it. Anyway, so altering her body was like a huge no no before I was around Actually punch yourself in the face Damn Yeah, and all this falls it still falls under that category of emotional regulation and the thinking on that is is that When you hurt yourself, there is a neurochemical event that goes on In your brain and it sort of overrides that emotional state and gets you back to a baseline but one of the things that You'll see really commonly with borderline women who are way over on the extreme as you'll see Lines of scars on their inner thighs and inner arms here and it's definitely something to run from The duke form star, uh, you can see on her inner thighs if you see any of the close ups, you know, she's just literally stitched up Damn that way and say, yeah, absolutely started looking at the sheer number of We have a mutual friend, too Who his ex-wife now at this point also the inner the inner forearm ones all up and down both arms And but she knew she was borderline. She actually was getting treatment for it Uh, so that was at least well, obviously it ended though. So Yeah, well one thing I want to say about treating against that Uh, a lot of borderlines are never diagnosed even though the clinician knows that they're borderlines because a lot of insurance Program won't pay for personality disorders because they're viewed as not being fixable So What they will do is they'll instead diagnose them usually as bipolar Yeah Okay, we got another caller on the line. Uh, it should say in your ear that you're being unmuted So call her on the line you blocked her number. You are on with the red man Yes, there you go. Yes. Can you hear us? Yes, yes. Yes. Hey, this is Jonathan I'm sorry, Jonathan. Um Uh from modern life Hey, I just wanted to it's crazy because I was gonna tell about my experience because you know in 2015 I also dated a borderline, uh girl and this was in japan So they're all over the globe and it's really really crazy because as I was waiting on the line What you guys were talking about She also was cutting herself on her upper thigh and I had no idea that that was a symptom Um, so my I would just say like I knew getting involved with her that she was bad news But she still roped me in like even I was experienced. So I would just advise all guys like what what's going on in this chat is like completely jit and avoid these girls at all cost Welcome and chockham Yeah, it sounds like he uh what he looked at was alarming But he didn't know what to make of it And I can relate to that if that's kind of what was going on in his head So you see it and you're like, what the fuck is that if you're not if you're not a psychologist or an FBI agent You're like, what the fuck is this like and then she sucks your dick and then it's all over from there Yeah, exactly. There you go. Yep. Well, I mean the thing that you got to remember is just keep them at arm's length I mean, you're not going to wife them up. You're not going to marry them. You're not going to put a bun in the oven I mean, you know learn from it experiment and move the fuck on Carl has a great saying Carl has a great saying with this Well, it's up to you the individual but you sleep with them, but you don't fall asleep with them Right Anthony's better because Anthony had a great response to a lot of the guys who respond Well, if she had if she's bpd or npd or asb just it's just because you're not alpha enough You just need to up the alpha More game more red pill and Anthony responded very well to that No amount of cat whispering skills make it a good idea to pet the wild bobcats Exactly Can I just touch on this real quick because we got this a really good question and uh, this guy was saying So after the proliferative phase is over. He's referring to ovulatory shift here And women have more need for beta instead of alpha needs. Does that change bpd behavior? I I would say yes I especially now that I know a little bit more about ovulatory shift and I understand there's this, you know, this want for crazy sex while a woman is Ovulating and looking for that more masculine masculine eyes features and dominance in man Uh prior to ovulation and then I don't want to get too deep into it Everybody that's just probably heard my hypergamy speech before but like in those in that There's that shift phase when she goes from being super hypersexual to being uh insecure and being very, uh, you know meek and demure I I would say that there is definitely an aspect of ovulatory shift that plays into Bpd behavior. So yeah, I would say that there's definitely a link there And per rollers point earlier and with that, uh, in my experience, you know, my bpd was uh, literally an escort So she got her beta bucks in cash I mean, I mean, you know, fuck getting it like through sugar, babying or like some Yes, and just great. Fuck cash. Well, she said that the money was a forward keeping score Yeah, problem. I mean, you know literally It wasn't this action. It's validation validation way of keeping here's what I'm worth. Yeah, she had she had That man Okay, erico 25 you're on with the red man group good Hey, how's it going guys doing good? um, so One of the things that I really love about this whole community is that like you'll learn about something you've never heard about before And you'll know exactly you'll like, oh man, I've experienced that so like I for example dated a girl pretty recently who this description of borderline not just her mother And I was always kind of able to get over it until I I'm really glad now that it ended because of hearing carl's statistic about how heritable it is So, uh, but my question is is about like just something shan was saying about how borderline girls will tend to to put you on this pedestal and praise you And I guess something that I've noticed ever since I guess getting better at game and you know, uh learning more about that stuff is that When I'm around girls, they'll tend to you know, they'll say like They'll they'll compliment me and they'll say like wow, you're you're so much better than all these other guys I've been with What's the line there and knowing that they're like They see with a high value man versus they are idolizing you in an unhealthy way. Like how do you distinguish that? Wow, good question. Thanks for the call erico 325. Uh, rollo. What are your thoughts on that? Roller muted. Oh, sorry my bad Uh, I don't know man. I mean like I said in this day and age I think one of the things that is confusing guys is that a lot of these Behaviors, they're seeing a lot in in just average women And I think that when you combine the fact that guys have been Uh, you know blue pill conditioned for so very long and have been feminized have been taught to emote like women And so when they finally see Uh, when they finally think that they've hit pader, you know with their beta game They I think there's some sort of like really self-indication that comes from that but Like trying to find out what exactly you're looking for is difficult And I think that's that's one of the reasons why guys who get into this are accused of being victims Or they they are accused of thinking of themselves as victims When in fact, they had no idea they didn't know I mean it takes a lot just to unplug a guy from the matrix and to make a guy red pill aware I mean god forbid you're gonna try to tell that same guy. Hey the chick that you're with she's borderline. So Well, and when you say borderline you mean she has something seriously wrong with her that you're not aware of Is then it caused serious harm to your life or puts you at serious risk I mean borderlines can kill you I also yeah, exactly And that's one of the reasons like when you guys are talking about like I have in that um In the post that I put for borderline personality disorder. It's got a really good comment thread So I wouldn't suggest that if anybody you know after this conversation If you want to go and see if uh, there's something in there that You know hasn't been addressed here. That's probably a good place to start But I was gonna say is that I am not of the opinion that guys should try to game A borderline personality disorder girl, right? If you want to have sex with her or whatever if you did and you didn't know any better great But if now that you do know better Man, don't don't even I mean that's like playing with fire, man. I I explain this is playing with fire It is. Yeah, like it's not it's not your responsibility to fix them. Yes I cannot endorse, you know guy and I'm I'm the guy is gonna say hey go and game women and spend plates and everything Do not spend a bpb play Well, well Sean like what ends up happening in your experience with your clinical practice where when somebody tries to fix a dangerous personality Oh, it just gets worse. It gets worse for everybody. I mean there's there's no fixing it and And I want to jump back and answer that guy's question because he was asking How how can you tell the difference between borderline idealization? And just somebody who's clicking with you really well, and I think the answer to that is no I'm really big on vetting women for a long time before you let them into your circle And so watch the baselines that this person has a baseline of seeing other people in a nuanced way Shades of gray and then you see the good and the bad and their relationships are solid And they have this nice baseline of being able to manage their emotions But then they're telling you hey, this is really clicking for me. I really like you Then that's a deviation from the baseline and it's probably Probably not borderline idealization But yeah as far as fixing these things. Yeah, just stay away. I mean it's not for anybody else to fix You're just going to make a right. I mean would you borderline personality stories is serious disorder Would you try to fix someone's broken arm in your garage? No, they need to go get treatment at the right place Yeah, it's like having a car that's that's breaking down every week on you and costing three random months to maintain And repair. Yeah, you can keep driving it and yeah, you can keep working on it But like is the juice really worth the squeeze? Yeah, I guess it depends on how long you think you're gonna live if you think you're gonna live 150 years You got a few decades to invest in this a knock yourself out Let me let me talk in here to shawn too with answering the guy's question I would say watch intensity and speed One of the examples I gave in my speech that is I still remember very well Medusa at the end says something about me having the self-esteem of the greek god And I was like, oh it feels good. I'm like, wait a second. Who the fuck says that? And I'm a guy who says like feminism Hate supremacist movement and shit like that But when I heard that I was like and this is very late in the game, obviously But I was like there's something very wrong with this like that, you know, thanks for the compliment But that really is like it's a compliment at an intensity that is just you know abnormal And if you heard something like that early on or even a lesser variation of that But early like too fast like kind of like shawn saying be patient That's the signal so watch intensity and speed what it actually complements you and And tries to understand you like I was saying with the observant part And guys, you know something that we really haven't touched on just yet is the whole little like spidey senses tingling We all have we all have intuition as men and it's a little voice that kind of you know whispers in your Hey, buddy, you might want to watch out for that. Hey, man, that may not be normal That shit's kind of crazy and the problem is is you don't really listen to that little whispering voice that little intuition Until you're a car all brushing your teeth and you've got a blade a cold blade in your back, right? yep that's something Get in on here because it's One of the things I said when I was talking to donovan about the track box yesterday Was the fact that they're very dangerous for newly red pill men because you have men Who've come to the red pill? Maybe they've been forced their entire life and you know, we fix them up We get them lifting and we teach them some game and suddenly there are sixes sevens maybe even eights And they go out and they start applying this and then they meet a borderline and they think oh This is how normal women react when because of all the work that put into myself But no, it's not they're in an unfamiliar situation with an unfamiliar reaction And their little spidey sense isn't going off because they have an explanation for it Like this is how women react to high value men, right, right, right? Let me just get in on this real quick I think Carl's 100 right here because One of the problems that I've always had with the pickup artist community is that they will teach you The behaviors to pick up on a chick They will show you how they'll give you the keys to the car But they will not teach you how to drive the car. They will not show you the dangers that are inherent with that That's why I always say that just because a guy is a good pickup artist and he can pick up, you know, women Left and right and he his notch count goes up that does not Make him immune from this kind of stuff that in fact, if anything it predisposes them to getting Worked over A lot of people want to say well, that's why you shouldn't learn pick up artistry No, I still think you need to learn game, but you also need to have a healthy Red pill understanding and red pill awareness so that those spidey senses kind of come to the fore And so not only are you good at the theory, but you're also good at the practice And that's one of the reasons you'll see these these classic pickup artists like mystery who get really super suicidal because they're trying to make those blue pill Dreams come true With their pickup artistry You know, they're rock solid bulletproof game, but they were never taught the red pill They were never really red pill aware and so as a result they become prime targets for this kind of personality disorder Exactly what happened to me. I mean, I was I was nailing chicks left and right in the Hollywood underground scene And and I was living on top of the world and then I ran into this woman who seemed like she could be the one the one that would That would be a good long-term fit for me And I was like so I was having sex with a lot of women, but then I found this one who seemed to You know get inside my head a little bit more and I didn't realize this because I wasn't red pill aware at that time I didn't even know what bpd was back then and so I just sort of fell for it hook line and sinker And I think you're right exactly. I think that if you don't have that base knowledge you become and even Yeah, a bigger potential victim I I agree too and I think my life was a good example of that and I would also say that Yeah, it really sets you up for it. Uh, it's it's just horrible like that I gotta had a little point. I went out onto that too brain fart. I'll get back to you guys on it Yeah, before we get to area code seven two four my two cents on Uh, bpd women using your what they do is they use your bill against you You're the best, you know, you fuck me the best I've ever I've ever been you're the strongest Etc. Etc. I think one common very simple defend. I'm not dr. Shanti. I'm not rural to nasty But I think you should just be honest with yourself if a woman says, oh my god, like you're the best You're the greatest lover I've ever I've ever had and you fuck six girls. Well, there's no way that could be true Yeah, here's what I wanted to say donovan I think you like this too as a as a purple pill guy And I was in the pickup community for a long time before I met medusa I did not understand that I only understood pickup I did not understand women almost at all Like I had very little understanding of them at a deep level But I did know how to go out to a bar or go in and at the internet plenty of fish back then Or gotten during the day go to a mall social circle stuff So I could bang women But I really did not understand that that was not that did not equal or translate instantly to understanding women And that my relationship was a stunning example of that failure to understand that Right, and I think what a lot of guys misunderstand is that sleeping with women is challenging But what what they really have to understand is fucking girls. That's the easy part It's getting out clean getting getting out of that whatever it is that relationship the fuck body arrangement marriage Whatever without them taking their pound to flesh. That's where red pill game comes into play A lot of guys can fuck a lot of girls There are a lot of guys out here getting late have no red pill game whatsoever And then six years down the line they're wanting to kill themselves because a bpd woman got a hold of them They know how to pick the girl up just like rola says they give you the keys to the car But they don't they don't tell you how to drive it It's only a matter of time before you bump into one too Like eventually you're going to find one that fits your profile what you physically like and has a personality disorder And you don't know about it and you have game and you're ever confident and then boom there you go Here we go seven two four. You're on live with the red man. Go ahead Oh man, how's it going guys? Good. This is uh, this has been a long time coming It's funny that you guys talked about the uh The the scars and scratches on on women's bodies and how to identify them Because I actually had an ex-girlfriend that had told me There's from her being molested And back when this was going on. I was you know, I was pretty blue-filled and I never stumbled across the Red pill atmosphere on youtube and I actually Might be a lot I got a tattoo of the scars on my inside of the thigh just for her just to just to show that I was accepting of her situation while I later came out to find that she Impulsively lied the entire time and that was probably another lie that she had she had shared with that So that was absolutely crazy when I heard you guys talking about the scratches because then it just all started to make sense And that's what I mean this entire podcast and chat Everything just makes sense and everything just adds up and it seems like a lot of guys from the From the chat room just have experiences the same thing But um, yeah, it's easy. It's easy to identify now, especially You know swallowing the the red pill and figuring out, you know, people make One one question that I had was I fell into a a recent situation where um, I met a girl and You know, we we hooked up and and it was uh You know A few days later, you know, we went out again for for drinks and went on a date And it seemed that she had been getting off the the vibe that she was a she was a high value woman Um, regardless of, you know, the one night hookup. Maybe that's not that's not Uh an indicator of a high value woman, but everything else kind of seemed to add up, you know, you talk about Uh, the personal parents had two piercings and then you talk about, you know, what she's doing She has she has a real good job. She's living in New York City and um She has a good family good good parents and whatnot um I guess I was just looking for some advice on on how to continue carrying out and kind of setting her for To continue to see whether or not she's a she's a high value value woman and see, you know Should I just go off of that one night stand just The judge are on that. No, of course. Kind of hit and quit it or should I continue? To Okay, yeah, thanks for the call seven two four. So yeah, I think if I'm understanding them correctly Um That could be a basic red pill question, but I think it's sort of two questions in one How can you this goes back to the point of bpb? So how can you tell she's a high value woman number one? And then how can you tell that she is a she is a A bpb woman bpb and high value two different questions Well, you want to read Sean smith's book first of all and second of all You will notice that most women that have this type of disorder. They're not broke. They're not dumb They don't have shitty jobs. In fact, they're quite clever and they usually do quite well in the world Yes, that is that is definitely the truth. I can remember The one that I was with uh, I mean at the same time i'm dealing with all of this. She's going on to college She's going and looking for jobs at, you know, pr agencies and You know The writing was really on the wall that you know that as soon as she was really done with college There wasn't going to be much future for the relationship after that at least as far as I knew but I knew I knew it was coming to a head and I knew it was going to explore it at some point I I would just to answer the second question of this. Um, I would be very careful in Qualifying a woman as being a quote unquote quality woman. I'm not a fan using idealizations like that and the reason for that is is because we tend to think of Our idealizations as being, you know, whatever comes close to our ideal our idealizations Ends up being the quality woman But like I've always said it's like there's not a guy here who hasn't been married who didn't think his wife was A quality woman when he said I do but when they're getting divorced and they're signing the papers on the divorce papers You know that that's not a quality woman anymore Really, I think that really kind of comes back to to idealization. So be careful of that. But um, should you Consider her, you know a quote unquote low quality woman or somebody that you know You don't have any future with just because you had a one-night stand. No, I don't think so There's a lot of studies and a lot of research that shows that just because you Had a one-night stand or you had, you know early quick sex It doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to it's going to lead you to some bad relationship. It's If anything, I think it just sort of depends on the context of the relationship So it could be that Uh, you were in the right place at the right time You might have been the hot guy in the foam cannon party in cancun on spring break for for all I know Yeah, I was gonna say it matters on context why she's surrendering Yeah, why yeah, maybe she sees you as a super high value guy and like I say Hypergamy cannot afford to miss those kind of opportunities And that's one of the reasons why I say hypergamy is not a straight jacket And it's you know, just because a woman, you know, subscribes ovulatory shift or she's hypergamous Does not necessarily mean that you you have no defense against that or you can't control for that you can But it would seem to me like I would just you know, go out with her a little bit more And just sort of feel her out and see what you can, you know, see how things go By the way gentlemen, this is uh, shan smith's book the tactical guide to women Get her on amazon.com and on his website I think he has a two iron shrink dot com or is it doc smith dot com Doc smith dot co Oh doc smith dot co. Yep. I think I'll get you there too Cool, we'll put a link to it in the video description too guys check it out Yeah, this guy if he's trying if he's trying to the man on the phone trying to decide whether or not He's gonna keep this woman around it in his life. There's there's some There's some baselines to look for you want to spend a lot of time with you want to watch her You want to watch her with her friends and her family and how she talks about people You want to look for some specific things like her emotional stability We've been talking about splitting and we've been talking about these ups and downs as wow roller coasters So how does she handle herself on a bad day? You got to watch for that kind of stuff You got to watch for her mental health look for things like substance abuse. We haven't talked about substance abuse I guess in my big three of things to avoid in women and women should avoid even men too but another you know a couple other things to look for are compatible values because If you do want to keep her around in your wife Then you don't want to be five years down the road and you got a little rug rats run around Suddenly you find out that she wants something different in life than you do and then just clarity I how clear is she when she's communicating with you because a lot of times with the With substance abuse and with these personality disorders You end up just feeling sort of confused and a woman who has clarity isn't going to leave you confused She's assertive about what she wants and she doesn't leave you wondering what the hell is going on Just to add my two cents He said something. How do you know she's a quality woman to me? And I know this seems kind of you know, red pillies, but to me There's really no such thing as a quality woman High value women when you look at a woman, you think she's a high value woman That is based strictly on the way she looks what you're looking for is you are looking for her potential to become a Quality woman. So the first thing you have to ask yourself is is she trainable? Is malleable? Can you? Can you make this woman into what you want? What you want and need her to be because there are a lot of women out there who who have who have bad habits You just can't train out these bad habits and we all know This environment it's not conducive to churning out what we define as quality females So if a woman seems to be open to If she's to be open to your Your frame if she falls in line if she truly follows you not like a bpv woman would just you know Sort of falling into doing what you say to manipulate you But if you can if you can truly see that she really wants to be with you and she takes to the things that you want to need Then she has the potential to be a quality woman Women don't when you get into a relationship with a woman She is not a quality woman just like there's no such thing as a red pill woman The only red pill women that exist are or women that belong to red pill men And as soon as that red pill man is done with that red pill woman She's not red pill more because women are conducive to self To self-destruction when left to their own devices so make sure you know, is she a quality woman? No, does she have the potential to be a quality woman? And do I have the potential to train her and and turn her into a I'm just gonna challenge you on that for a sect on them because I'm not sure that I agree with you Um, I've spent a lot of my time trying to train women And I found that it's been a colossal waste of my fucking time Um, you know, she just is if you know if she arrives She compliments my life, you know, she's not the focus of my life Then that's something that I would consider an LTR with but like I got no fucking time to train women And I don't think that they're trainable personally Listen, I would agree with you and it's funny because guys that listen to me You guys know how I roll man. I can do that I tell my woman how anybody who follows my twitter and instagram page like listen, you know I like my woman to look a certain way when I want to fuck. I tell her how to dress I monitor her phone blah blah blah blah blah listen I've tried this with probably maybe 15 16 different women And some of them some of them try it for a little while most of them don't The one that I'm with now happens to be the one that that it has actually taken to now for me She made herself worth the time She has to make herself worth the time that I would agree if you richard 99 of women it's it's just not worth it a lot of times We got better shit to do than to be training women fortunately for me I was in a position in vegas where where my income pretty much made itself So I had a little bit of time on my hands. I was getting tired of the pickup scene I was getting tired of taking std test every six months and chasing pussy and you know Cocaine and this and that and the other I decided that it was time for another stage of my life And it was I was in sort of the right place at the right time when I met the girl that I'm with now And I had the time to train her but if you don't have the time or the patients do then I wouldn't recommend it Let me say this too Maybe Sean can speak to it. A lot of this might come down to independent of disorders as personality differences in men and women Like donovan's personality is not the same as mine. It's not the same as richards I'm not super familiar with big personality traits like the big five or whatever And maybe Sean could speak a little bit like why there's such why are you guys disagreeing? You're both obviously experienced the women have banged a lot Oh, yeah, I don't know why they're disagreeing. It sounds like they're more on the same page than not Yeah, richard drives. It's richard might be a little more Might be a little more jaded. I don't know Dude, trust me. I can promise you however, however much richard is or isn't jaded. I can Well, what comes to mind for me is his business experience Like he if you look at it the way he treats his businesses and runs his channel Like he operates in a certain way to his personality and to me it seems like he's doing that with women too And donovan obviously runs a different business. It's so for me it just comes down to behaviors Look at it in this way though. I mean if we were going to talk to a guy like alan roger curry Alan roger curry is all about Pragmatism it's always he wants to get to what he wants to get with a minimum amount of you know bullshitting around That's why he has mode one. That's why everything is like up front on the table from the word go Uh, I think that we're all kind of looking for I I think we all would all agree that we're looking for genuine desire in a woman And just like what shan was saying before is that if a woman is into you, she doesn't confuse you And we're looking for that pragmatic like, okay, she's into me Where do we go from here? Is she amenable to You know coming into my frame entering my world. Is she going to do things, you know on my terms And I think that sort of goes back What rich was saying is that you know, he doesn't want to have to train a woman or have to deal with With with all of that he wants her to have a genuine desire others when you live with the woman There are certain things that are going to happen. You're going to You're going to progressively I think almost instinctively If your frame is tight and your world is something that she wants to be associated with She is going to take that work upon herself without you having to do so In fact, that is an indication I think of genuine desire if a woman is saying, yeah, I'll do those things or yeah Or she starts doing things on her own to To either to please you or to make things better or make your life easier She's she's falling in line and using you as sort of the her her focus of The dominant masculine Then yeah, I mean how much energy do you want to put into that? So in a way, I agree with with uh with rich You know from a pragmatic point of view But I think donovan's also got something going as well, which is like there's you know, you have to Demonstrate this. I don't think you need to explicate this, but you need to create A boundaries and you need to Sort of establish what is and what is an expected of that woman and if you want to call that training Okay, fine call it training, but there has to be a genuine desire On the part of that woman before you even get into that to that stage of the relationship and here's the thing Yeah, yeah, I just want to like Okay. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead because I want to finish a lot I actually don't think rich is is jaded I think I know rich a little bit and I think rich is he knows where he wants to go and he has Defined the straightest shortest line from here to where he wants to go as a really admirable quality And I think so that I think when a woman joins rich's life It's going to be on his terms because he's not going to deviate from this path And I was talking to another guy earlier this week who's got a very different mindset He's sort of meandering through life And he's deciding whether or not to bring this particular woman into his life And there's just a whole lot of confusion about how she's going to fit into his life Does she fit into his life and it's just kind of a mess Yeah, so just to and again like I'm not I'm not trying to disparage Donovan But I mean I want to be careful with the word training Because I do a lot of consults with guys on my channel when they book me one on one And there's there's a pattern of men that believe or think that they can train women to be what they want And I and I think that can go incredibly wrong for a lot of guys You know, it's like we've been talking about it's like, you know, you want to be a compliment to your life You know, you wanted to kind of just you know fit in correctly And I just want to be careful with that word training because I think that's not a good term to use for The sorts of thinking that you want to adopt if you're going to bring a woman in your life in a long term You know closer basis sort sort of thing Well, I'll pivot on this a little bit based off what Donovan said he used another word too I like it's called malleable. He said malleable That in my opinion if if a girl says that word about herself or if you if you conclude that she's like over malleable or hyper malleable That's a huge reflect. That's what bpd is doing women with severe issues Exactly, and I was just and I was just about to say that because you nailed it on the head like a bbt Will be malleable like she is like a chameleon And it's and it's different than what rollo talks about where a woman might have like a deep alpha respect for you Where she becomes malleable? It's not the same but she wants it to appear that way and that's that's part of what I went through and I remember these things kind of vividly like yeah, I understand now what she was playing at and That can come from a good place if a woman is like super super in you but That's really rare and you have to watch out for it speed and intensity Yeah, and and again just so everyone knows I mean again Yes, my woman the sheet falls in and you guys see the fruits of my labor But this is a this is a year and a half two years in the making like you guys see all the pictures and the meals She cooks for me guys. Listen. Yeah, I trained my woman. It was not easy. Yes. She absolutely was into me. She desired me That's the only that's the only reason why I was able to make her into what she is now Yes, she had she had qualities that she has a lot of qualities that I liked But what I tried to do is I try as I attempted to train a lot of those bad behaviors out of her And fortunately for me, I've been mostly I've been mostly successful Yeah, she still has idiosyncrasies that I don't like but it is what it is But make no mistake about the fact that we I would I had to be 1000% sure That I really that we really wanted to move in before we actually moved in I didn't say, okay Let me finish the job and when we no no no no when I was a hundred percent certain that I had full control of the situation That's when we just that's when we move in together Um, and so and now that we live together the dynamic is literally identical It is I mean it's it's unbelievable and again This is just like richard said it is a rarity and it took a long long time Listen, you guys see all this stuff I post that's not easy. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes to to accomplish What I've accomplished it's not easy and it's time consuming so it comes down to Well, listen, is it worth it to you? Sometimes it is sometimes it's not Well, one of the more interesting things here is um Donovan is very very clear with His demands of this woman and that's one area that many blue pill men struggle with They often rely on covert contracts or other forms of passive aggressive behavior to try and get Well, I wouldn't say compliance, but to get their way And I think this plays into guys who end up with dpd women because dpd women are so insanely Preceptive so they actually get the covert contracts and they get what the guy is trying to do and they can adapt but Normal women will not get it to that degree and I think a lot of the time guys are too Trepidatious about making clear demands and being very clear with their preferences And I think that's a big thing for them to step up to have better relationships Okay, we got another caller on the line area code 267. That's my neck of the woods 267 You're on with the red men group go ahead Hi, are you guys doing today doing good? I'm not doing what you guys are doing. Can you hear me? Yes, we can Okay, yeah, um rollo, uh, thank you so much for doing what you do Um, I just have one question today. I don't normally call you What do you do if you have uh gotten to the point where you have kids And you have some type of woman with some type of Yes, be specific on that. I know I have any comments on that. Yeah, be a little bit more specific You know, you don't have to give away any personal information, but Tell us what's going on Uh, yeah, I don't know. She said she has uh post-traumatic uh special syndrome Uh, did she say that you know, it could be any number of things I've I've only been in here for the six months in the red pill community. You guys are doing a great job And uh, you know, I'm vetting things out and looking into things, but Um, you know, you know, I'm managing things. I'm learning things trying to try to vet it out and play games on and so forth And I'm reading as much as I can and it seems like it's managing But I mean, I'm sure that there's a lot of other guys out there and they have kids involved that have gotten far enough along If you guys are saying that there's 20 20 percent of the women out there That uh have that I'm sure that there's a lot more out there And they're probably blue pill at this point in time Well, well Carl's stat was like uh overall meant to help disorders. It wasn't specific to cluster bs or bpds Just clearing that up I I have a lot of guys on my borderline personality disorder uh post on my blog who have brought this question up before to They're saying well, I'm already married to her or I'm already investing. I've invested my life into Uh into this whole thing. I think it it depends because if it's if if this woman that you're describing right now has What she's saying is post-traumatic stress disorder What is that from and what is the background of that? And that's a little bit different. I would say then then borderline personality disorder Guys who are dealing with a bpd who they've actually had kids with as that is a cluster fuck that I I'm probably not qualified to untangle, but if you're talking about a A woman who has Post-traumatic stress disorder. It's like where did she get that? Did she think she has that because of something that happened in her past? Or is it something that you are you know responsible for or does she think you're responsible for it? I there's not a lot to really There's a lot of people in her past You know, so it's come come through Um through her child so that a lot of the stuff that I'm hearing it sounds more like she has bpd and Yep Yeah, so, you know, I've offered I've offered to have her come see a clinical psychology Not really interested in doing that. Of course not. I'll I'll say this man I would be very suspicious of any woman and I am consistently in the smp of a girl who self reports any kind of mental health disorder Uh, unless you talk directly to her doctor at some point, uh, I would be very suspicious and probably get away Uh, because you don't know it where she's like rollo was saying you don't know where that's coming from Why she has it? Is it even accurate? Is it true? Did she read it off google? Um, I would be very careful and because that's a lot of bpds will do And just another caution to add to that guys If you're gonna untie the knot, you know, if that's what your plan is You need to be very fucking careful with that type of woman because they can be very dangerous on the exit of a divorce So you have to be super careful if that's what your plan is Is that your plan two six seven like are you planning on leaving or like like what's going on here? Yeah, so, uh You know, we're kind of in limbo. We're we're you know, I kind of I don't um I would say that it is something that has been managed at this point in time. We talked about it We've not not pursued it at this point in time. Wait, hold on. Let me stop you right there Hold on. Let me stop you right there. You already know what you want to do. So what is it that you wanted? You've already got your mind made up. You just need to say that loud Well, you know what it's basically I'm I'm old enough at this point in time where I don't really want to get back into the sexual marketplace So, um, you know, I've done my fair share I am really focusing on being the boys and I'm sure that Coming to this world being a red pill aware And that they understand the changing environments in this western culture basically And that they can see the best future for themselves Are you a lot older than she is? No, no, are you about the same age or it's a shielder than you? Yeah, she just I'm just trying to see what the what the age differential is here. I have many kids. You have two kids with her Yeah, can you have two boys? Yep. Okay. Well, I it's it's kind of difficult for me to diagnose I mean probably shot it would be more qualified to do this, but I I have had so many people go on to my my essay about Borderline personality disorder since I wrote it but in those comments There's a lot of guys who ask the same question like what do I do because I'm already locked in And then there I'll also get women, of course who come in and say I have borderline personality disorder And you need to be more sympathetic to us And then it's not like it's it's just unique to to women I mean there are some guys that get borderline personality disorder as well, but um I think that the awareness of it is Quite a bit more than it used to be certainly back when I was you know I'm talking about dealing with a vpd back in 1993 when we didn't even have the internet or at the Manusphere or anything like that. So, uh, really I again, I think donovan Probably asked the right question. It's like what do you want to do? Are you working within your frame? Is this something that you want to live with for the rest of your life? Is this going to impact the Think about this in the long term. Is this going to impact your Long-term happiness? Is it going to impact the development of your children? You know in this case, I would definitely say you need to do what's best for you And you need to do the best for your kids If that is uh divorcing your wife then that so be it because if they're I would say that I'm not maybe john can Can speak to this, but I'm not really sure what the success rate is for curing borderline personality disorder Uh, in fact to my knowledge, I don't think it is something that can be cured. It's just something that sort of can be managed Am I right about that john? Yeah, and it's it's something that the person who's motivated to manage it can learn how to manage it And the intensity of the emotions don't go away. You just learn different ways to to handle it but I'm really curious about this diagnostic picture of this woman because when because uh post traumatic stress disorder is just a basic Kind of run-of-the-mill anxiety disorder and usually people are pretty motivated To get it taken care of but a lot of times what you'll see is that when somebody's struggling with something a little bit deeper That they don't really understand in themselves they'll pick some kind of Vanilla sort of diagnosis for themselves and a lot of times it's bipolar like everybody who has a boot shift Thinks they're bipolar these days and real bipolar Uh, it's a very specific thing and it's really painful and people are kind of resistant to getting treatment sometimes And with personality disorders people are very resistant to getting treatment I like what you said there because I think that we sort of throw around uh the terms, you know Bpd Kind of willy-nilly in the hemisphere without really realizing that it is a serious You know psychological disorder and it's also kind of like the same, you know Like you said the whatever the vanilla Diagnosis is because a lot of guys will say oh you're you're an aspie You're you've got asperger syndrome or you're autistic or something like that As if it's just something sort of you know throw it out there because a lot of guys will say yeah Maybe they're just simply, you know, not quite as Socially intelligent as the next guy, but they'll say I've got asperger syndrome I've got you know, I'm autistic whereas the fact that maybe they're just introverts and they're just not as socially intelligent guys Yeah I was going to say too that the red pill I think is a Is a huge collection of very high quality knowledge for men And I think a lot of guys who find it they feel really amped up and to some degree that's accurate Over the average man But as a result they don't take personalities just sort of seriously because they feel very confident in their understanding of women And with the neurotypical women they're it's accurate, but I don't if they haven't experienced it. I don't think they've They haven't developed a level of respect yet for mental health issues Unless you have it in your family where you've experienced it Let me just chime in for a second because I was just thinking about this because um, I don't know if it was Rolo or or Sean that mentioned that I that I tend to apply my Entrepreneurial mind to many areas of my life and you know, you're talking about managing risk I mean, you're locked into a contract the state views you in a certain way And certain things happen if you want to modify that contract Um, I mean you're living in an environment right now that Like the only part of the universe that you can control is yourself. You can control your beliefs You can control your choices. You know, you control your time around your kids You can't control your wife, you know, you can't control her behavior You can't control How she's going to respond to certain inputs. So I mean you can manage it I mean, you do have a certain degree of control. It's it's going to be draining. It's going to be exhausting and I mean, I've had I've had Like legislation passed for example that forced me to modify The control mechanisms that I have in a business that I run And it's it's not fun. It's not favorable. It's not rainbows and butterflies and llama unicorns and shit like that But um, I just managed my fucks and this is one of the things that I talked about at my first 21 convention speech was managing your energy Aka your fucks and you only have so many fucks to give And the day so you want to manage that energy because it's like an energy bar And it's like, you know, take the kids to extracurriculars deal with the wife shit Go to work, uh cut the grass and it's like that that little life bar slowly gets chipped away throughout the day And you have to decide how much of your energy you want to allocate to You know, maybe whatever her personality disorder is that you might find draining. It's just You have the capacity to manage those fucks that you own They are they are on you to dispense on things that you find that are truly fuck worthy And if you decide that it is not fuck worthy, then you do not dispense that fuck So, um, you've got a lot more control than what you think It's just you just have to kind of apply that red pill lens a little bit more to Um, the stuff that you've got within the scope and realm of your understanding if that makes sense Guys got to get themselves a fuck dispenser or with regards with regards to women who self-diagnosed They're these mental illnesses these light mental illnesses I think I think what they attempt to do in a lot of cases is it's almost like credit creative projection because women Are attracted to men who are complicated if they find out a guy has bpd Or if they find out a guy has some sort of mental disorder in some weird twisted way women are attracted to that They're attracted to the data To men that are complicated. Well women who self that yes, I have bipolar. I have anxiety or whatever bullshit Diagnosis they give themselves they think that They think that by definition making themselves a little more complicated a little more of a challenge Okay, well, well, maybe if i'm a little bit fucked up in the head That's going to make me more attractive because that's what i'm attracted to I think now that's my opinion as far as the as far as the red pill angle is concerned What do you think about that shon? Do you think that that's a motivation of women just trying to Just just trying to use these things to draw attention to themselves to make them more attractive to men in the same way men are attractive to them I think women will use anything at their disposal when they're on the in the marketplace Yeah, okay. Hey guys, uh, dad here's got a bounce. Doctor. He's appreciate you coming on Love to do this again. Hell, yeah See you soon, man. All right. Have a good afternoon. Take care. See you man. I take care, man. Cool Uh, sorry to interrupt Continue and here's um women Uh, I don't have anybody on the line now But I've heard that women also mental disorders to um, this is actually, uh, my girlfriend just said this to me Women use mental disorders as an excuse to evade responsibility for their actions. I think that's pretty obvious Oh, well, it wasn't my fault. I have bipolar disorder or I have ptsd You got to do it in that than that in that girly voice that you do so well don Oh my god, it wasn't my fault. I'm totally ptsd Good to see Yeah, that's a chicken and the egg thing to what what comes first is that the disorder that comes first is just a disposition to avoid responsibility Yeah, yeah, right. There you go. Yeah, one of the topics I wanted to hit on two guys If there's no callers on the phone right now was responsibility in situations or exiting a relationship like that Uh, to kind of get that kickstart that, um This is an issue that people came at me for pretty hard when I gave my speech and put the speech out on the internet The mary medusa talk that's on youtube And I was kind of conflicted for a while. I was like am I taking responsibility? Am I not am I somewhere in between like where the fuck am I with this? And eventually I asked carl about it privately in a you know dm And carl said something to me very This is a very short reply but it's very powerful that I'll never forget And he said, you know independent essentially of what I was thinking my actions were what I need to look at Now my actions were I ended the relationship immediately when I found out various elements that were bad cheating prostitution So I ended it immediately and I left immediately Exactly like I said I would uh or had kind of like made up a mind beforehand before even starting the relationship And he said through that I took full responsibility through my actions independent of anything I said or anything anyone else said And I thought it was kind of interesting because it didn't even occur to me to look at my actions as an indicator of taking responsibility or not I was looking more like dialogue as taking responsibility So I don't know if carl wanted to kind of emphasize on that or you know explain that more or if you guys have more thoughts on that too Well for me it's more of a case of whenever you say something a lot of guys verbalize things, but we're looking for either help We're trying to work our way through a situation Or we're doing it for to keep our conversation going and I think ultimately actions speak a lot louder than words and you'll When you do something to fix the situation that is bad That means you accept that the situation is bad And you accept that you have the power to change it and you're doing what you need to in order to change it If you stay married to medusa and instead bitch for 24 hours a day on some internet forum about how Much of a slut your wife is That's not taking responsibility because you're not fixing anything that way. You're not fixing her. You're not fixing yourself You're just wallowing in that married native misery One of the things I tell guys is that once you and most guys figure this out for themselves But one thing I tell them is that once you have become red pill aware you don't go back to that You know we always talk about you know men going their own way You cannot help but go your own way once you become aware The way I got out of my situation with my bpt was honest to god and i'm just going to be bluntly honest here is that It decayed to the point where it's simply We couldn't see each other anymore. It just wasn't going to happen like everything I had done to try to make everything right Failed and every time I tried to solve the problem every time I tried to You know Create this This thing in me that would you know make myself the better the better rollo To satisfy her every time I was trying to do that all that would do would push her that much more away because I was trying to do all of this stuff Within myself not for myself. It wasn't organic. I think on some level of consciousness She probably picked up on this but I wasn't doing it for myself I was doing it for her and that's one of the reasons I tell these guys who are trying to reconstruct themselves When they find the red pill and they are awakened well married I always say you need to break up with your wife and I don't mean that in a literal sense I mean you need to in your head you have to break up with your wife and say look I'm going to be somebody new and I'm going to do it for myself and I can't change myself in a red pill perspective Because I want to Improve my marriage that might be a byproduct of it But you have to want to be red pill aware for yourself You have to and this is really easy to say i'm going to do everything for myself But you have to really focus on you and sometimes that means you're going to end up divorcing your wife Sometimes that means you're going to break up with your girlfriend because the better you Doesn't deserve the bullshit that you've been putting up with in your long-term relationships And so the better you the red pill you might stay with that person and might not but the only way that you're going to Separate yourself from a bad situation is if you're doing something for you So for example when I was like 1993 I think and I can remember I had just got into this really super bad fight and I was considering leaving I was going to move to northern california Uh, I was just I was going to go live with my brother for a while because I had to get away from la and I had to get away from her And she had no idea that I was planning to get to basically cut myself loose because I think there's a part of me A part of my subconscious that realized that this is a really fucked up situation if I stay in it I'm going to end up killing myself or something really fucked up is going to happen And so we had this really super bad fight. I was over at her dorm And I was looking she just stormed off and went into her room and just you know It was probably some stupid jealousy bullshit And I can remember sitting on a couch looking at her bedroom And looking at the door that was the exit of the of her apartment, right? So I'm looking at the door to her bedroom and looking at the door to the exit I'm going I got a fuck. I literally have a choice this door Or this fucking door over here And I'm glad that I took the door that was the exit that left out of that because that was the point at which I'm like Something is wrong here And I need to get out of this situation and as good as I think this possibly could be mom I'm in my blue pill fantasizing thinking that this is gonna work It was never gonna work and then like I said, there's this instinctual Impulsive side of me that said you know what fucking I'm out and then that's when that's when of course She thinks something's wrong And I haven't called her to say it's okay, baby. I'll see you later You know, I wasn't checking up on her because I was gonna leave and that's when she calls me That's when she says I'm gonna kill myself if you don't come back then suddenly as I've You know picked up my my fucking balls and I've made it about me and I'm gonna get the fuck out of dodge I'm out of here. That's when you get This completely 180 in her in her You know her perspective. So now it's she's I can't live without you I'm gonna kill myself if you guys if you ever leave me All of this shit that's that's designed to rope you and pull you back in And then so now you finally come up with the balls to walk out the right door And she's going to try to rope you and pull you right back in and you think oh She must really care for me. Maybe this could work out. Maybe I could make things better Maybe if I maybe this is it. Maybe I'm changing myself and she really wants to be with me. No, it's bullshit You need to leave that's why I tell guys do not get involved with BPD women because this is what will happen You will leave you'll say hey man. I'm out. I'm I'm red pill. I know my shit You know what she's gonna do I'll kill myself if you don't come back You know, that's what it's gonna end up being so don't get into those situations in the first place So what how do you get out of that? How do you pull yourself away? I'm glad you I'm glad we're kind of finishing up with this Is like how do you disengage yourself from this bullshit? And it is hard It is one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do in my life because I didn't have The mana sphere. I didn't have the red pill. I didn't have any of the stuff that I didn't even know what BPD was at that point and I'm dealing with it. I'm trying to pull myself out It's really sort of an act of will that you have to do that But at least now you have anybody listening to this or seeing this in a chat or whatever At least now you have a knowledge base at least you can say I knew better at least you can say now Okay, here's what here's the signs that I'm looking for use that to your best advantage and walk out the right fucking door Don't go back to what that you know to that situation And if you're locked into this and if you have kids and if you're married in that, you know what uh, you know Icon Dios man. I hope you're okay, but you need to you really need to Make that decision from a red pill aware perspective and you need to walk out the right door There's a really good book that I read when I was uh going through my divorce. Um, I can't remember the author's name But the title is something like uh Too bad to stay too good to leave. Um, do you know who the author is someone Sean? Maybe you might know No, I haven't heard of it Um, it's it's written by a by a psychologist and it's basically like a self-guided handbook on kind of navigating leaving a bad relationship And the one thing that stood out in that book That I that I talk about often in private consults is if everything in your life is like walking into hurricane wind And I don't know if anybody's ever, you know been through like a category I think category one is the lightest hurricane which is which is the one that I kind of uh stayed in But it was like like three days and and it was one day of like colossal wind and like like two days on either end Of like heavy wind and it was like walking from your hotel room to where you get the food was like walking into A wall practically like you have to lean into it to move But if everything you do in that relationship is like constantly a struggle It's time to go man. It's time to check out and you got a man up and I mean like I'm using a word like man up Which you know we often criticize when women use it on us, you know in the comments. It's like, you know You just got a bounce yep I was an ad that my experience my exit was uh similar to rollo's there was never like a physical moment with doors, but uh When the first element of cheating came out alarm bells were going off my head It what it was kind of like a joan avaro talks about listening to your gut But as if that had been turned off Or suppressed for years and then all of a sudden it hit me in the face like run get away get away get away And so it's that it's that whisper that like turns into that shout right siren is siren It's like fucking run like get the whatever the whatever's going on here is it was too big of a disconnect How she presented I was like something seriously wrong and then of course The problem is is that dudes are like a glutton for punishment like we just march into the slaughterhouse Just cutting up with the pain and pain and over and over and over again It's just like at some point it you know it just becomes so much that it's like rollo says it's like Do you go in the bedroom or do you walk out the door? And that's because we have been raised from a very early age to be serviceable to women Exactly we want we've been raised first of all to take ourselves off of our own pedestal And to not be our mental point of origin and to put women and woman kind and once we have a focus of that Woman kind we will do fucking anything to make it better. And that's why bpds are so Dangerous to that mindset because we'll do it. We'll go. Oh, man. We'll go through heroic lengths how do I how do I make things better and Again, it comes back to you trying to be serviceable to women and that's in the process of men being conditioned as part of blue pill conditioning in my book is that You have to be serviceable to win you have to be the supportive guy and that if you're not then you're like your dad Or you're like the asshole chauvinist and you don't want that do you and it's it's this constant likes a qualifying But it also teaches guys to to sublimate and push down this Instinct that would save their lives in this in this position with the bpd The instinct is pushed down and you're you're taught. Well, don't think that way that's uh, you know, that's just uh You might say, you know, do a gut check kind of thing The feminine imperative does not want men to do a gut check Especially when it comes to something like this They want to keep going and keep going and keep going because men are supposedly Dispensable we are You know disposable guys and if if we as long as we tried our hardest if we died we died, right? But we died trying to be serviceable and trying to be these great servants and these servants to women is what we're We end up being and so we push down that instinct and it's that instinct that could save our lives Well, one of the things I want to head on before carlisa leaf soon. I want to get him in on this before he goes Uh, in my opinion, and I think carl's on a pretty much the same page in my opinion bpds and cluster bs They sink their claws into Without knowing it so to speak In this conceptual sense they sink their claws into your blue pill beliefs and they want to amplify them They want to dig and I think that's a big difference between that and normal women who you might develop what night is for But they're not going to not usually deliberately exacerbate that Bpds want to do that to the max They want to find every blue pill shitty belief you have and amp those up and leverage them to try to control you Carl I don't know if you want to if you agree with that or have some input on that But it reminds me of some of the things you've talked about on your blog Yeah, that's uh, I agree with you on that They will actually play off your savior complex your sense of duty your sense of loyalty and they will play off all of those To get you to feel better like when robo's girl called them up and like if you don't come here now I'll kill myself she's playing on his Protective instinct that if I go there I can fix the situation or when a woman is It says something like well like you left me three months ago My credit cards are maxed out and they're gonna kick me out of my house That place off your need to take care of them. Look Um, just one last thing because I know that we're wrapping up guys I know there's a lot of people watching this and you know, there's gonna people watching this afterwards, but Um, the one way that I can sum it up is we're all going to fucking die We all have a finite number of grains of sand in our hourglass and when they drop As far as we know, let's pretend that there's no never ever land or gates of heaven or whatever the fuck, you know Comes after you die That's it That is the end of your fucking life And do you want to spend the rest of your life miserable trying to make a miserable person happy? It's on you to make that choice It's on you to make better choices on your life to update your belief system to get better results If you're not happy with the results you're getting it's on your ass to make better choices Okay, nine one four two oh five five. I couldn't put that better myself Five three five six is the number to call airy code 408. You're on live with the red man group. Go ahead Yeah, I wanted to Just touch base on a question I asked earlier on the chat with regards to bpd woman and the workforce And I know donovan's uh running some really good articles with regards to women in general In a professional environment, but we talked about bpd woman being very successful and actually taking on those side roles I guess My take on that is for the sake of our for the sake of keeping our job as men Is this the time that we just act like blue pill chumps? and not Indirectly show any alpha kind of characters within our workforce for the you know for being successful and and try to really Get promoted right because they're seeing that as a threat now and they look at you like a hot And Anyway, just want to get your thoughts on that rolo. Obviously. I want to get your thoughts on that as well. Thank you Yeah, thanks for the call for a wait Yeah, the answer is not to be a blue pill chump because if you notice Most victims of this hashtag me too bullshit human, you know human resources blah blah blah blah Most guys who get railroaded in corporate america or office jobs are the guys that are blue pill Yes, there are some alpha guys that that do get railroaded But being a blue look like we talked about a tony robbins when he apologized for his comments It only made it worse By being a by being a being a beta male just infuriates both men and women and that's not the answer Don't listen. Don't obviously don't talk about the red pill in the workplace But when it comes down to it being a couple can beta male, that's not going to win you any favors with either sex or either gender I think mick counts had the right idea when it comes to men in the workplace To some extent it's A drug dealer never gets high off his own supply and you should not fuck women you work with well number four I have a very clear line between my Private life and my work life and I avoid situations where it's likely that those lines are going to become messy And that's just out of pure pragmatism because you never know when it's convenient for a woman to throw you under the bus To get something out of it if she has some kind of personality disorder or just an opportunistic mindset And you also never know you can sleep Let's say you bang 10 women at your job and they're all happy with you They're happy being plates But that one girl who you know the girl with the purple hair who works in hr and is 450 pounds and is constantly a little levy snack cakes She's not going to be happy that you're sleeping with the other woman and that you're ignoring her So she might report you Despite not being involved in the situation. So it's just better not to Keep stow to corporate line. Just follow whatever rules are in the workplace if other guys are doing things and getting away with it Okay, good for them Yeah, I was gonna say is I I think that in this day and age that if you're gonna get into a workplace romance Because there's there's only two ways of dealing with women in you know, intimately in the workplace And that's a workplace romance or it's sexual misconduct and those are the two those are the two choices that you have and I think that when you put yourself out there and you Initiate god forbid you initiate, but like let's just say for sake of argument. You do have some sort of workplace thing going on Uh Never do that at a job that you care about and in this day and age I would say even that's kind of a stretch because You are going to Find that you are completely powerless as a guy there women I mean just even if you don't have a a relationship going on you are still going to put yourself at a greater risk by You know by trying to be intimate with somebody in the workplace I think right now we're already seeing this fear kind of manifest itself in like the might be hence role You know guys don't want to work with women or they're like afraid. Why because oh, they're afraid. They're afraid to Or no, they're not afraid. They're being cautious and they're being pragmatic and they're being wise about the whole thing And they're responding and adapting to a situation where that if they care about their job And they care about their well-being and they care about their family and they care about providing for them because remember If you go and you get a sexual misconduct Uh, you know case even if it's even if it's completely, you know If you're exonerated you still had that and you finding another job after that is next to impossible So it's not just at that one place It's at your your whole work future is at risk by doing that So here's another general rule of thumb when you start talking when you start fucking a woman at work after After the last time you fuck her within six months one or both of you is not going to work for that company anymore Yeah, probably going to be you Yeah, I would take the same rules to the to the campus You know young guys on campus these days There is nothing on that campus that you can't get more safely and more reasonably right across the street So just avoid the whole thing all together There you go. Carl. Do you got a bounce? Let me run out of time Yeah, I have to run so a great show guys it was We should do an episode two on this because I didn't have a huge topic and it's an interesting one and one that has to be covered Hell yeah Cool. Yeah, I better run two gentlemen Okay, Carl Richard. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate your time. See you the knowledge of beer all right So I guess we'll be wrapping up soon. Maybe take one more. Do you have one on the line donovan? No, I don't there are actually a couple of early questions That I wrote that I wrote down and this one is specifically for rolo and shawn Does written and you guys alluded to this earlier, but does red Game red pill awareness. Does that work on the pd women? I don't I don't know the answer that I don't even have a theory But again, you know, if you run red pill basically if you're a masculine male and you're attempting to control the frame Etc etc Does that work on a bpd woman? Why would you want it to work on a bpd woman? Well, I let's just I mean, let's just say for sake of argument. I think that um Again, if you go and you look at the comments on my borderline personality disorder essay This question has already been asked. It's like, well, why not? Why I know all this stuff right now I know the dangers But uh, you know, maybe this chick is really sexual and I want to have a good sexual experience with her. Well, first of all You can go have good sexual experiences with with women who don't have bpd, but Would game work on a bpd woman? Yes, I would definitely say it would if you knew she was bpd from the outset And then you could sort of calibrate your game for the bpd. Why you would want to do that? I don't know but Would it work? Yes, absolutely. I think really this is more of a Of a confirmation of game than it is. Well, you're really going to go do this or you you would really want to but I would the question before is Does does bpd sort of fit in like their cycle of ups and downs does that fit in with? obviatory shift Yes, I would definitely say there is because I would think that a woman would it's going to be more sexual Of course when she's in her up phase of her menstrual cycle and is going to Probably look for new and creative ways to have great sex with you I mean even anthony was saying that at the when he was first with medusa. They were having sex every single day So we did that indefinitely. I I never wanted to be in a relationship right and bang all the time So even when she would try shit to pull out of that kind of setup banging all the time I'm like why don't want to be here? So i'm gonna leave That's kind of a sociopathic element of me. So I need to look at that But I'm really horny young man. I was like, I'm gonna bang all the time I'm fairly certain that you could probably develop some some form of game that you could cater it to to By you know, what bipolar for borderline personality disorders But I I would be very careful in doing that because Just because you can do that doesn't mean you should do that I'll piggyback too that uh all women are hypergamous So women having a mental health disorder does not mean they're not hypergamous. They still have a pergamy. They're still They're still women. They're still of xx dna Gotta want to add to that too, uh, dammit brain fart Well, uh, the same guy asked the asked another question says why does the military attract and the guy's name was daniel win He asked about the about red pill game work on bpd win, but he asked why he also asked Why does the military uh attract this kind of these kinds of women these bpd women? I mean, is that necessarily true? I mean is I I wouldn't know I you know, I especially not in this day and age, but like I mean, is that true or is it just that We're trying to apply the Like what what shan was saying, we're trying, you know, this sort of vanilla easy to understand, uh, you know three letter Uh diagnosis of these women that there are suddenly they're all bpd I don't necessarily think that that maybe they are I think that probably Well, maybe it's just hashtag bitches be Well, yeah, well, you know, you got women who are just simply You know full of themselves or something to prove And I mean a lot People get into the military for a lot of different reasons You could say that women get into it because of they have something to prove or It's just simply the best way for them to get themselves set up for a future I mean a lot of people use the military as kind of their basis for their financial futures because they you know, it's going to pay for college Uh, you know, they've got veterans benefits and all that other kind of stuff. So I think it kind of just depends I don't necessarily know that that's true. So I can't really speak to that Yeah, I don't know what to make that question either I don't know And have any way to know if that's true But I do know that a lot of times it's younger people in the military and young women and young men are just not Fully developed yet. So you're going to see the worst of our qualities there probably Uh, uh, nitschke and middleman, I guess he's answering the question. He said it's a structured life for a few years I guess that I guess that could be us pandemic Can you ask the question from preceding this one that you had from earlier that was asked to rollo and shon Yeah, um, does red pill game work on bpb women? Yeah, dang it has something I really wanted to add to that, but I can't they've answered it pretty well I think I agree with rollo. Um, if you know she's bpd and you've got red pill game Yeah, you can sort of calibrate your game to you know, in essence manipulate her I mean, I guess, you know, like they say, oh wait, I got it. I got it. I got it. This is important. Carl would fucking love this It's it's very black label logic game. So something I said that he he recited earlier in the chat today that An analogy I drew a few weeks ago or whatever on twitter Dangerous women bpd or otherwise are like wild animals. They're not like wild cats really they're not like stray cats They're not domesticated house cats. They're fucking wild So Can you learn how to interact with a wild animal like a cat whisper? Maybe do you really want to go pet a fucking bobcat though? No, like it will probably not unless you're just like, uh, you know crock dundee or something about you know Mcdundee or whatever And that's that's how I view them like they're uh They're wild animals like be very careful Well, if you got someplace that you're going in life, why on earth would you want to complicate it? I get it's an interesting academic question But why on earth would you want to put speed bumps in your way? Like I always say a woman should only ever be a compliment to a man's life Never the focus of it and is a bpd woman ever going to be a compliment to your life Is she will certainly be the focus of it if you allow that to happen She will certainly be what you the constant consistent Problem that you were trying to solve all the time and you will be focusing on her But is she ever going to be a real compliment to your life? No, she was going to be a benchmark I'm gonna wait I'll close out by coming to the Qualified defense of the borderline women and that's that a woman who has actually Gone through the treatment successfully It's sort of like somebody who's gone through substance abuse treatment successfully. They're going to be more insightful. They're going to be more They're going to be experts at relationship. They're still going to have that exciting quality to them, but That might be a bit of a unicorn. I don't I don't know how many there are out there. We go It's the exception to the rule. Yeah, I'll say this too though in terms of insight. I'm Uh, especially not two and a half years out or whatever. I'm very glad I went through my relationship with medusa I learned a lot about myself now. I also say that from the perspective of I got I was very fortunate To not lose any money to not get stds to not have children with her a lot of very serious things independent of all that though, I learned a lot about myself and uh Hellish as it was and awesome as it was in some ways. It was fucking crazy in a lot of ways Uh, I'm glad I went through it. I learned a lot about I learned a lot about myself and I did it at a time in my life when Not only did I not suffer any serious repercussions fortunately, but I was very young And I have a long road ahead of me. I'm very I'm not even 30 yet So it happened kind of like with rollo It happened at a time in your life where you could still have a long road ahead And I'm fortunate that and I'm happy I'm happy that it happened at that time not a later time or anything like that And of course, no consensus whose consequences Yeah, I mean like uh anyone who's read or listened to me for a while I mean, I've been involved. I've been involved with some pretty fucked up women And I was I mean listen man like like, you know, like I was involved with a girl who had a she had a kid when she was 13 Um Had a kid when she was 13. I met her when she was 19 baby daddy gets out of her I mean, it's and dude, of course I you know, I rented a part or rented a uh a three bedroom two bathroom house for a woman and you know This and that and the other at the end of the day, man You know a lot of guys say man, you know The reason why you're pissed off is because you went through this stuff No, man like these women made me who I am and even though those experiences sucked It made me who I am today and just like anthony said man I consider myself to be very fortunate because I've dude I've been in so many fucked up situations with women that if the pendulum had swung both Any the other way my life would be completely fucked up like honestly, man, and I'm being serious like sometimes I think Fucking uh, what's his name truman and the fucking truman show i'm thinking of myself, dude I've been in so many fucked up situations and i'm still around like my life isn't fucked up I'm looking for the camera. I'm looking for ed harris to cue the sun like am I really the only person here? That's that's living my life unscripted. That's how fortunate. I feel like I've been so I agree with you anthony You know going through this stuff that sucks, but it yeah, this is what makes us who we are Yeah, and that's and I'm just gonna leave you guys with this as I went going through this is Like I was I've been sharing some stuff today that I I don't share You know at all and the reason I don't is because I've always been of the opinion that I need to write as objectively As I possibly can't so I never really talk about my family and never talk about my marriage all that much Uh, I mean if people want to ask me about it. I'm okay to talk about that But there are certain things that I just simply don't get into and more because I don't want people to think Oh, well, you're you're fucked up in the head because uh, she really did a number on you Or you're you know like the first thing women say is like when you when you when you have an opinion about women They're like who hurt you, you know About all the time we should do we should do a full show about like all of the excuses that we have the first reflexive responses I want to say but I I'm of the opinion that I want to stay as objective as I possibly can so I don't really get into these So I'm I'm happy that we had this opportunity to do well not only that it's in men and women alike Well, you know, especially they'll come after you know, red pill guys like us and they say well Don't listen to him. You know, it's a bunch of failed relationships Well, yes, you learn more from failure than you do success Dude, nobody hits a well, I don't know nobody hits it out of the park the very first time Uh figuratively speaking any businessman who is successful has failed in multiple businesses Anyone who is good at any anyone who is a black belt in brazilian jujitsu has gotten his ass plenty of times So again, you have failed a lot more than you have succeeded Well, yes, I have failed with women a lot more than I have succeeded and this is exactly why I am the way I am So for for for for people to disingenuously say well, who hurt you a lot of women have actually here by way you failed the relationships Yes, that's why I that's why I am who I am. So, you know, nice try with that That's disingenuous. It's also the role assist too though that you can observe hypergamy everywhere So people say, oh, who hurt you anthony? I do the medusa burned you it's like, no man, I have You know, not everyone not every woman burns me. I have sisters. I have cousins. I have a mother obviously I have all kinds of women in my life friends girlfriends of friends stuff like that And you can observe hypergamy Now a bpd woman or whatever will amplify that to You know absurdity and that makes it a lot easier to see around but it's still all around you And then all the woman I date and stuff like or you know, don't plate and whatever See hypergamy is all around you and for women to just pin all It's a really shitty reflexive response. Yeah, they don't have an argument There's fucking losers in my opinion when they need your a guy you like that It's funny. They just attempt to shame me. Yep. It's a shaming tactic. Awesome. Well, that said, I think we should wrap up Uh, appreciate your tired gentlemen to your time today gentlemen everyone watching appreciate tuning in live This was a record live stream live stream for us on 21 studios. So I appreciate you guys tuning in. It was fucking awesome We had a couple thousand people tuned in I think total wow live live we peaked at uh, almost 500 viewers So awesome guys awesome awesome. All right, man. We'll do it again. Hell, yeah Next week guys. Yeah, everyone else tune in next week on entrepreneurs and cars for the red man group And uh, by tickets to the 21 convention, they are 400 off till the end of july You can get them at the 21 convention dot org dot org You can also get them on the speaker's websites or in the video description underneath this video Also, make sure you hit the like button on this video share it and subscribe Thanks. I'm anthony johnson and uh, thanks donovan and ryan or rollo and uh, sean for your time Thanks guys. We'll see you next week later. All right. Thanks guys