 Welcome to episode 111 of the Red Man Group special episode with special guest Dr. Shanti Smith returning panelists to the show and alumnus speaker of the 21 convention. I'm Anthony dream Johnson co-founder of the Red Man Group CEO 21 studios and CEO of the 21 convention and founder of the 22 convention for women coming up soon in Orlando, Florida. So again today's guest is Dr. Shanti Smith. I'm a poem on here the show in just a minute. He's a clinical psychologist based out of Colorado and Denver, Colorado and he's also the author of several books probably which most of you know from the tactical guide to women. It's my personal autograph signed copy. So this is a book he's most well known for in the manuscript community but he's written many of the books beyond that that we are going to get into today such as the user's guide to the human mind which inspired the title of this episode. He's also the author of some books you guys probably know about for women including the practical guide to men and the woman's guide to how men think. He actually has more books beyond this a lot of guys in the Ministry don't know about. I just ordered another one I found I was digging through this book I think or the other blue one and I think it's surviving aggressive people which is kind of interesting and I'm looking forward to getting it it's ordered it and I think it's going to be focused on basically surviving people with personality disorders and the workplace and other areas of life. Anyway without further ado please let me welcome back to the show Dr. Sean T. Smith. Morning Anthony. How you doing man? Good you've got the whole collection there I don't even have those books. I think it's almost I found you know I found another one too you have like a Chinese version of one of these books. Yeah the user's guide got translated into I don't know how many languages 20 languages or something so I've got a Korean version and a Japanese version yeah I don't know what all but yeah it's kind of neat. It's interesting though in the Manisphere that you're pretty much known almost exclusively for the tactical guide to women understandably because it's all men looking to understand women half the time or most of the time but you have a lot of books and I don't even think that you have more that I still haven't found yet I keep digging on Amazon. Those are all of them and the tactical guide that's my baby like that that's the one that I'm proud of that's what I think it has the most positive impact in fact I just I'd still like that book and the surviving aggressive people that was one of my that was my first book and part of that was part of my doctoral dissertation when I was you know the program that I went through you didn't do a traditional dissertation you could do something you could do that or you could do something more clinically oriented and so part of that book was helping staff at this rehab center in Texas called the institution the Institute for rehab and rehabilitation for people with traumatic brain injury and spine injury and so forth and one of the things that comes out of that kind of injury is emotional ability and impulse control problems and so I helped design a curriculum for staff to deal with patients when they got a little out of control and aggressive aggressive and frustrated but there's also a big street component to that one where she's dealing with people who are getting aggressive because they feel cornered or because they're being bullies and they're just trying to get up on somebody and so yeah I like that book too and that'll be useful for guys as I correct to say that'll be useful for guys navigating the workplace maybe with the boss who's being over aggressive or something like that basic skills in there that everybody needs to have for dealing with bullies and this was stuff that I started picking up at my dad's bar when I was nine nine years old my dad was really good it's kind of a rough bar my dad was really good at handling people he's the kind of guy that could 86 you and make you feel like he's doing you a favor nice which was a really good skill to have yeah wow I'm interested to get it yeah I just saw it and I was like yeah I'm gonna pick that up so let's get into some questions I have a whole list of questions related to the books and beyond that you know happy to have you back on the show and go through all this but I hope it's a lot of fun for you it's kind of a hot take thing and we'll see how it wanders and where it goes I got hot takes hot takes on everything yeah let's do it so right off the bat I mean this whole year has been really really wild that seems to be a pretty consensus opinion at this point from just about everyone in America and around the world even right yeah from day one or almost from day one yeah you know early in the years has been super wild so what is kind of your as a psychologist what is your kind of basic response to the mass response of the population to this pandemic we've seen a lot of government you know different states of them doing different government regulations different people are responding in different ways you have the pro-mask people you have the anti-mask people you have all kinds of lockdown stuff but I'm interested in from it interested in from a psychology point of view like like my concern is basically this point people are overreacting from like a hindbrain standpoint that they're afraid of something that maybe the data doesn't really support and they're kind of locked in that mode so do you have any thoughts on that and the kind of mass response to this to this you know disease and how people have been responding yeah well just watching us for the last few months some of it I could have never predicted some of it I should have predicted but didn't but okay people people do kind of lock in on on their issue and their thing that they're concerned about and yeah and everything else be damned you know it's kind of how our brains are built we focus on one problem and that's the problem you know like you know trying to my wife just trying to get in for it for a checkup at our insurance company here and can't do it because apparently we only treat COVID now like nothing else exists wow just I'm exaggerating but you know she can't get in for just basic stuff because that organization does what people do and it's locked in on one particular issue and to the exclusion of everything else and there's a big cost to that you know there are people who are who have problems that aren't getting treated because yeah health systems kind of locked down on this one and this is like a general practitioner office yeah well it's Kaiser Permanente which is a big bureaucratic thing okay and it's acting like a bureaucracy which is what it's supposed to do I guess but you know looking at some of like the riots and so forth this is one of the things that I think in hindsight I should have been able to see because you take a bunch of young people lock them in their parents basement with nothing but social media so that they can marinate in whatever ideology they're marinating in because the social media just feeds you whatever's going to make you angry and then a couple months later there's there's a spark in this big tinderbox and the whole country goes up and it's not surprising to me yeah in retrospect that we see a lot of young people out there just kind of tearing the place down yeah yeah it's been super wild and I thought about that too when those when that popped off I was like all these people have been locked up in their home for months for that most of the country and even not only locked up in your home and you're viewing social media feeds that kind of feed what you already believe you follow people that you like obviously yeah unless you just hate you hate follow people I don't know I guess some people do that I'm sure you have some haters that follow you and I know I do know everybody does I guess yeah but even like the gym shutting down is the thing I thought of immediately is like and no one's been able to physically exert themselves you know a lot of men you know gyms are popular today you know 50 years ago that wasn't really the case the modern fitness club didn't quite exist it does now and no one can go lift weights male or female they can't go on an elliptical or a treadmill or lift dumbbells or something and yeah so it's like boom this like physical energy just just kind of you know burst out speaking of the riots though what are your thoughts on this is another question I want to get into but and I would like to revisit those some of the pandemic stuff more generally but with father you mentioned the riots so you've been a clinical psychologist for a long long time and I know you've talked about you know you did a whole speech on fatherhood at our convention last year the patriarch event so what is the connection between riot the riots that we've seen and the looting and like the really violent element of the protest not all of course was that but a good chunk of it was it seems to have the country whole cities have been burning down what is the connection to between that and the epidemic of single motherhood and fatherlessness and the broken family for example for the audience that may not know at this point I think 75% and the black community throughout America 75% of children are born to unwed or you know unwed parents so they're born out of wedlock at this point so what's the connection there between fatherlessness single motherhood and the riots well I'll qualify this by saying you're just getting one guy's opinion and it's just my personal opinion I always separate my clinical opinion from my personal opinions if I'm in the clinic and I'm working with someone individually on an anxiety disorder I'm working with a couple or something my professional opinion goes one way and attend I tend to keep it pretty informed my personal opinion that's what you're getting right now just one guy got it watching all this but you know what what I see that there really concerns me is well first of all there they're people out there who have a legitimate legitimate things to be worried about like you know there are issues out there that people legitimately upset about I get that it doesn't justify destroying things and tearing up your own neighborhood and hurting your neighbors and so forth and one of the things that's really troubling to me that I see going on right now is the cancel culture where you you can have your life destroyed by expressing the wrong opinion using the wrong words I mean you know how it's working right now you have to if you have a job in corporate America you really have to tiptoe and I'm hearing from guys that are just you know they're just on pins and needles are walking on eggshells because they they know that if they say the wrong thing they could lose their job and so forth and if you follow people in academia they're talking about the purges that are going on right now so there's all of this shaming that that's going on in our society it's it's shaming it's dragging dredging up the past you know going through your Twitter feed and finding something you said 10 years ago and using it against you and that there's this there's this this situation where you can't win with certain people so I'll give you an example and I'm going to work back around to your answer so okay sure there's this yoga studio here in Denver there's a guy who has several yoga studios I think it was called kindness yoga and he was a very liberal very woke kind of guy the guy that owned these these properties and for whatever reason the woke mob decided that he needed to be taken down and their justification was that he was engaged in what they call it performative activism which is nothing it's just their contrived way of being offended and so they went after him they tore him down he ended up closing his studios and after he closed his studios he did all the things you're supposed to do when you all the things the mob says you're supposed to do when they come after you he was apologetic he said you know I'm trying to learn I'm trying to be a better person help me with this I'm trying to understand what I'm doing wrong here and so guess what the woke mob did then they doubled down on them they came after him even harder because you can't apologize to mob so there's there's this shaming no win attitude out there they're like sharks they smell blood when you apologize they are yeah and it's like you know there's there's this it's like they're a group of hyenas out on the savannah and they're they're being the a-holes of the savannah right and they're just trying to steal food and do what hyenas do and then one of them gets a broken leg and now suddenly he's the victim and he's lunch and I don't even know if hyenas stoop that low but that's what happens with this crowd like he was the hyena with the broken leg now and they were going to destroy him and look at J.K. Rowling the author of the Harry Potter series even she's close to uncancellable but they're trying right because she's now opposed she has criticisms of trans stuff and all that specifically in favor of women's rights and what she believes to be you know women's issues and they're coming after her hard. Yeah she has an opinion. Yeah. How dare she have an opinion how dare you. I don't even know what her opinion is really because I haven't followed but I know what's happening with her that she is very woke and then she's stepped one inch out of line and then suddenly now she's at the target so what are we seeing in society. We're seeing in my estimation a very feminine the dark side of the feminine so let me talk about kids for a minute so if you when you see kids on the playground they're playing with each other boys and girls play differently and there's a dark side and an upside to each of those genders and so when boys are playing they rough house which genders the two or the four hundred or which ones. I'm just talking male female you can yeah I know there are people who want to break it down further. I'm going to keep it real simple. Yeah go ahead. Yeah so when you see boys playing what are they doing they're rough housing they're busting each other's chops they're you know they play pretty rough and some and they're also very cooperative little boys are extremely cooperative and way more so than girls if you watch groups of boys when they might be to like that might be like build things like when I was a kid we would build forts and stuff like that you mean yeah building things together team sports together. Yeah there's there's all this cooperativeness and some of that gets tied back to in the literature to test Ostrone just the effects of having this hormone in our body. We keep men boys and men key in on each other when they're on the same team so anyway when boys are when things are going well for boys they're playing rough but they're doing it in a way that builds each other up like if you're playing team sports little boys are just trying to build each other up and challenge each other and and and get better when they're when boys are unhappy they're unfocused they're bored they're miserable things aren't going well at home or school whatever then that energy can turn and that building each other up turns into tearing each other down and then you see similar behaviors where boys are rough housing with each other and so forth but they're doing in a way to destroy each other so that's the dark side of the masculine the dark side of the feminine on the playground is is similar but different so he's when you see little girls playing together they usually play they tend to play in diads and whereas with boys boys come and go a diet of hair so OK girls will be talking and playing and then for another girl to break into that diet is kind of tough but they're they don't you know they they cooperate in their own way they play in their own way tends to be a lot more verbal it tends to be a lot more in the imagination whereas when boys play it tends to be more in the physical world and so when girls are playing together nicely and everything's going well they kind of build each other up but when when the feminine turns dark when those girls are unhappy when when things are going well at home when they're bored when they're miserable when things are going well at school whatever it is then that feminine energy turns real dark and whereas boys will try to tear each other down physically girls will try to psychologically destroy each other there's backbiting there's shaming there's ostracizing I mean just to say rumors and manipulation yeah dressing up the past all this stuff just psychological torment so the knives come out mm-hmm and so when girls are tearing each other down they do it that way and so I think you know here's my one guy's opinion when I'm looking at what's going on with cancel culture and what's going on with all the hostility and attention out there it all feels very feminine to me it all feels like the dark side of the feminine has really taken over with the shaming and the backbiting and the no-win situations and the double-binds and the rumors and the digging up the past it's not a very masculine darkness it's a very feminine darkness and so I think that part of what's missing in society right now is just that masculine balance and it's not the masculine stepping in and controlling the feminine it's just providing balance because we need both sides of this equation and so this is this pretty interesting observation and I hadn't thought of it this way so yours it would this be related to for example then a hundred years plus of feminism that has been at this point you know vilifying men vilifying masculinity I know you for example you want you're very critical of the APA when they tried to basically demonize mass old-school masculinity yeah shaming men yes and they came very close I think that declaring it a mental disorder my understanding they didn't go that far if you connect the dots you read their their guidelines for working with boys and then you connect the dots yeah masculine yeah this is this reminds me to though of this reminds me to the of even comedians I grew up watching like George Carlin they would joke about the pacification of America and the American male and stuff and it's like well here we go so it makes a lot of sense though to your observation there's a to my in my head there's a direct connection here pacification in the American male but bluntly or in a comedic sense and then yeah so so whose fault is that is that women's fault is that feminine's fault or is it men's fault for allowing it to happen or is it both is it both yes yeah it's both because we work together I tend to think more that the responsibility falls to men to say enough you know you're not going to shame me into silence you're not gonna yeah gonna do the psychological torments I'm gonna work on me to lead yeah a responsibility lead there's somewhere I wanted to take this but now my head or brain fart on it son of a bitch I'm talking too much that's what the problem is no it's good it's good man this is really good can you be more specific on fatherlessness though as it's affected you think so you're saying that there's a feminine side to the riots and it's the dark side of the feminine not the more positive nurturing caring the more positive elements of femininity so what is the more specific connection with I mean look to me it looks like when I see the antifa in the street you know burning stuff down or beating people up and then even the black community burning down their neighborhoods burning down you know auto zone rbs it's like you know what did auto zone do nothing auto zone you know it's innocent of course what is the connection there for the audience that is not familiar with your work to growing up in a home being raised by a single mother and without a father which has become very common in America I mean you know nationwide I think over the past hundred years it went from like 2% to like 40% now yeah across the whole population how could it not have an effect and if I was a real Freudian guy which I'm not but I would look at the fact that the store they burned down was a store where men hang out it's the auto zone you'll see a whole lot of women in there it's kind of a masculine store but that's that's just you know fun speculation I don't really that's gonna that's actually kind of interesting yeah I haven't seen any Victoria's secrets burned down so I mean maybe but I haven't seen any you see a lot of guys in Victoria's secret to you in that last minute gift but um yeah I don't put a lot of stock in that it's just kind of fun to think about but um how can it not have an effect like you if you've got a kid a young man who had strong masculine guidance and you know when people when some people hear strong masculine guidance they hear overbearing aggressive rude now I'm just talking about being a strong presence you know what do fathers do they tend to be good fathers are warm they're they're joking they're playful and they provide structure so if you've got a father who's warm and he provides structure what's the odds that you're going to go out and throw a Molotov cocktail at an auto zone it's pretty low yeah yeah it's a good way to there's been a lot of Molotovs thrown around it's kind of I forgot about that yeah go with a wild year man it is for me I started off with makeleman great again and then before I knew it the world was burning down the economy was collapsing there's Molotovs getting thrown to cop cars uh there's mass riots in the streets there's talk of civil war it's like holy shit yeah year has gotten real wild it's like we were living in a tinderbox and didn't even know it and then it's kind of a perfect storm with the lockdowns and yeah and you know this this cop that murders a poor innocent guy um you know I don't care what you what you want to say about that tape that was cold-blooded murder yeah it's pretty brutal yeah yeah that was the thing too though is it was interesting uh just from a political standpoint with that cop uh like if you look at the riding king riots from 1992 I think it was that I think happened when there was like a final court ruling and there was an actual trial and stuff and then he you know whatever happened with the cops getting off or something but with this cop who did this you know it was bad it was on film but then he was he was fired immediately he was arrested like a day later he's being charged with you know a criminal murder or third-degree murder then it got escalated second-degree murder the other cops who were fired and then they got charged it's like this all happened very very fast and that to me is the justice system working to correct what seems to be and appears to be from an observer standpoint very very bad behavior by a police officer with a long track record of bad behavior too which is a bigger problem yeah this is not yeah it is a bigger problem yeah I did ask Ken Kerry by the way on the show if he had any any non- legally binding opinions about the cop Derek Chauvin uh because when I see that as an arm chair psychologist with no clinical schooling or academic schooling of it at all I see a guy with like a 17-year track record of of abusive complaints I'm like yeah that screams like a cluster beauty disorder or something this is aggressive behavior that's being repeated over time and not stopping the stopping is like a political element to a bureaucratic thing maybe but him doing a personally like that's really alarming do you have any non-legally binding opinions on Derek and what he like will he be invested will he be investigated or will be examined by a psychologist maybe I would imagine that would be part of the legal defense or the legal yeah probably the legal prosecution but um yeah I I haven't really dug into him enough his case to enough to know what's going on I know he's got this long track record I know that him and George Floyd had a personal beef which you know that made to my mind that makes it first degree murder but you know the larger question to me is why did this bad egg just sit there and rot for all these years when you know where's that calm masculine energy within the system to say you know what buddy you need to go find a different job because this doesn't work for you yeah by the way I figured out where I wanted to take it does sitting right in front of me of course right it'll be this so you're mentioning cancel culture and mentioning mentioning the dark side of the feminine things like that this is an article I found yesterday from Jack Murphy he tweeted from reason.com and I've not actually read into the study yet that they're citing but they're citing some study that came out. Narcissists, psychopaths and manipulators are more likely to engage in virtuous victim signalling as study and this to me would be inogulous as well to cancel culture which usually comes hand in hand they're canceling you because they want a virtue signal and they want to get approval from their in group their in tribe does this make sense to you at a basic level as a psychologist and as an adult? Yeah at a gut level it does I would have to qualify it by saying these studies especially when psychology and politics intersect in any kind of study you really have to take with a grain of salt and also these are very small effect sizes usually they imagine I haven't looked at the study but if you classify virtue signalling as a manipulative behavior which I do because it's a way to gain power that kind of makes sense that somebody who has that dark triad trait it might fall under the heading of Machiavellianism yeah yeah I want to read into it as well and I send it to Richard Grandin speaking to Richard Grandin actually that was one of the questions I have on my list here for you so Richard Grandin first book with the 21 convention last year he was supposed to speak in 2018 actually but then he had like a year problem at the last minute and he filmed a speech and then we actually published it anyway on his own and it did really well it's got like half a million views but when he first appeared at our conference that was his real entry to the manosphere and his main speech of the convention was on CBTSD complex post-traumatic stress disorder and that's not something he created that's something that he was a big advocate of I think it was spent around at least the late 80s or early 90s it's advocated by certain therapists and psychologists like Pete Walker who wrote the book called CBTSD what is your take on CBTSD that Richard now is introduced more formally to the manosphere your take on it in any way you want to look at it but my main point of view of it would be as a conceptual model because like Richard talks a lot about and I'm sure you would say like you know having a anti-social personality disorder is typically there's no blood test for it you don't have like a virus that says like oh like you're an anti-social psychopath you're a fucking narcissist or whatever right you're you know a borderline these are things that are behaviorally and they have to be diagnosed in a personal one-on-one setting but CBTSD I think is a pretty I think it's a pretty amazing pretty useful model and it's not formally accepted yet either as far as I understand it in like the DSM and APA and stuff like that so what's your take on CBTSD? Yeah I'm thinking about the DSM and the DSM it comes from the American Psychiatric Association not the American Psychological Association it's a different APA and the way they come up with their diagnosis is kind of by committee so there's some pluses and minuses to that but you know that aside I'm a little bit envious of the way that Richard Grannon is able to speak so eloquently about personality issues and about CBTSD and he uses this term emotional flashback that I'd never heard before I heard it come out of his mouth and it describes so nicely one of the things that that can happen when you when you're traumatized when you invite because let's define traumatized it means that your brain you know this this this organ up here has learned that something out there is dangerous and you can learn it from one incident or you can learn it from a collection of incidents or you can do it to yourself you know like you see you see guys in the mannosphere who I want to be careful when I say this because I don't know how true how accurate that is but I see guys who are who appear to me to have traumatized themselves essentially by going out and it doesn't have to be in the master this is kind of human behavior you go out and you find all the horror stories and you're doing that in the service of protecting yourself right so it's not a pathological behavior necessarily you're just trying to figure out what's dangerous in the world are you referring to the reticular activating system I think it's called where you basically seek out kind of like in a biased way of things that you already believe well the the reticular activating system is a part of your brain that's way down deep inside and one of the things that it does that that's kind of relevant here and I don't know all the things that it does but it filters information okay so you have there's this professor that I had is a when I was an undergrad and he talked about the reticular activating system it was one of his favorite pieces of brain biology and and how it filters information because you know how you can there's all kinds of information coming in but it doesn't all make it up to verbal awareness because it would be overwhelming and so he talked about the part of the reticular activating system that really does the managing is the ascending reticular activating system or the a-rass and his joke was up your a-rass to get you to remember got it this this process is always going on anyway so you can you can traumatize yourself essentially by filtering out by and this is more of an actor process than an automatic process and by filtering out half of the equation which is that you know life is also pretty good yeah there's a lot of dangerous stuff and yeah relationships in this context and we're talking about the mass for relationships can be incredibly dangerous and you need to understand that and you need to know how that works but you can't forget about the other side because you'll you'll traumatize yourself or somebody who I think a more common example would be somebody who grows up with that mother or father who is an abusive narcissist and then they go out and they repeat that that relationship because they know how to do it I'm not into fancy explanations of you're trying to to reconstruct your past or whatever I think those are fine but I'm more of a very basic kind of guy and I tend to think that people just do what they know how to do and so when you know how to do an abusive relationship beyond the receiving end of that then you go out and you find it because other people find you because they know how to do the other end of that relationship and so would you say the that people seek out what they're familiar with they do with they do what they know how to do so okay if you know this isn't the case for me but if I grew up with a mother who was extremely narcissistic and she put me in situations where there was no way that I could possibly win everything I did was a failure and so I developed this I developed this desire and this habit to try to please her I'm always trying to please her I'm always trying to get that moving goalpost that that keeps moving and I can't get it but that's my MO like that's how that's how I've learned how to do relationships or it could be my father to you don't have to be on the mother so then I go out and I start dating well what's my MO I've already known I have already learned that I need to try to please I need to try to find moving goalpost and try to try to satisfy those those requirements so that's what I'm not necessarily what I'm going to be looking for but if I encounter somebody who has the other side of that equation we're going to fit together very nicely because I know how to do what that other person is doing which is to give me moving goalpost and put me in no win situation it's like puzzle pieces it's like puzzle pieces coming together yeah what also comes to mind as a thought when you're going through this is that if he grew up in that kind of environment and I did I had not exactly what you're saying but very violent abusive childhood both parents that's a behavior pattern now that like you're saying in a supplicating sense or a fawning sense as Richard Grandin would say that's a behavior pattern that you've ingrained for you know 15 20 years by the time that you're in early 20s yes behavior pattern is a perfect word yeah yeah like hard I mean that's repetitive if you lived at home and both parents are around I mean that's every day or close to it for 20 years it's like brainwashing it's like brainwashing yourself yeah based on what you're saying a lot of work to learn how to not do that I don't undo it yeah another question I had so you're saying the Manusphere guys I know what you're saying but I've been in the Manusphere for a long time and I've seen a million I don't know about millions but thousands of posts of guys doing this from the pickup community to the to the ripot community to the McDowell community all of it right even the MRAs in terms of divorce and things like that I agree with you that you know all of it's very serious there's a lot of like huge problems with this stuff but is this related as well to kind of as the Manusphere would say stepping on your own dick or stepping on your own foot is that a crude way to put it what you're saying in terms of traumatizing yourself I'm thinking about that statement yeah it could mean that but you're going yeah traumatizing yourself I think of yeah I don't really know exactly what that phrase means but it definitely means you're going out and finding things to be upset about yeah yeah yeah I don't know I mean the way you're saying is it's a little more I think what you're referring to is a little bit more almost intentional without knowing it than stepping on your own foot which might be more accidental like shooting yourself from the foot you know with like with a woman or a date or whatever yeah yeah making choices that you should know better than to make versus going out because you're concerned about a thing so you're going to go out and you're going to read all the horror stories and then you start telling yourself horror stories and then pretty soon the whole world is one big horror story yeah and before you know you're screaming on youtube repeal the 19th the women are evil it's all we're all doomed I see this every day on youtube like all these comments yeah well so getting back to the PTSD it's a beautiful concept and I love the way Richard Grannon explains it to men because one of the you know I love my profession I have a love hate relationship with my profession but the part that I love about it is that the clinical side of my profession they tend to be helpers obviously they're very concerned about making the world a better place I always agree with how they do it but that's their concern they don't tend to speak to men very clearly and Richard speaks to men very clearly and it's just beautiful to watch and so he explains this concept of how you can get into a situation through your own doing or through the doing of others where the emotional side of your mind is driving the bus and you're not really making your own choices and that's kind of how I think of CPTSD is ultimately it's making the decisions for you rather than you making conscious aware decisions yeah I really like as well the conceptual way or the way he describes it in the speech and on his youtube channel as well he describes CPTSD as opposed to PTSD as more of like a scatter shot like a bird shot out of a shotgun trauma which so small things happening over time or you know or a long period of time versus PTSD as we would note in the movies and stuff where it's like a Vietnam vet or an Iraqi war vet who went through a particularly intense situation combat somebody died somebody burned alive and then that makes for a good movie and it's easy if people understand but you know 15 years of abuse by in a bad marriage or toxic relationship with your family or something that's harder for people to understand and his concept of CPTSD and the way he advocates it really taught me to respect childhood trauma before that I was much more of the more commonly accepted manuscript and I think where it's kind of like a walk it off brush it off could be in a pussy it's not a big deal get over it all this stuff and I use I used to more or less believe that I grew up and I think that actually does work for men in some specific instances like contact football you know you get hurt you get your bell rung your head's ringing if you didn't get a concussion hopefully you walk it off you be patient and you wait five 10 minutes and the pain goes away and you get back in the game but emotionally I think men get crippled with that kind of attitude and they don't realize it because that's the it's the bravado element it's like this is like yeah just walk it off man be in pussy she hurt you so what she cheated so what it's like well you know that happened or that happened repeatedly over a long period of time and these things are like knives that stick in your heart or something right yeah and that that stoicism let's call it stoicism that's not the right term for it but I don't know of a better one could stoicism stoicism and excess maybe an excess yeah and so when like when going back to the APA when they talk about stoicism they talk about it as always being something that that men it's a shortcoming in men and they're not seeing that it's two-sided they're not seeing that yeah it can be a shortcoming but it can also be a huge strength and everybody needs to have some women need to have some stoicism too it's it's not a it tends to be more of a male quality but it's something that everybody needs to possess in some measure but you need to be able to recognize when you're not making your own decision when that emotional side of your mind has stepped in and it's sounding the alarm when it it thinks that something's going on that is going on at the moment yep that was a big awakening for me of Richard's work that I have these emotional flashbacks flashbacks are basically old behavior patterns that were built and were useful to survive like I needed them as a tool or a weapon you know 15 20 years ago yeah and at this point in my life I might still need them but only in very specific instances where they used on purpose like in business or some other social thing I'm doing like make you know make women great again to do this I had to go against a mob of feminists and SJWs and news outlets that wanted to wanted to silence me they wanted me to shut up on my own or they wanted to cancel me and my ability to switch off their voices and their social pressure is a tool that I developed in my youth but you can take it too far I find in relationships and dating and stuff and then it becomes it'll blow up relationships it'll soft detonate I'll step on my own my own foot we'll say keep it polite but it's taken 30 years or until 30 years of age 31 to figure this stuff out and without guys like you and Richard like I wouldn't have figured that out I would have kept in that behavior pattern much longer in life I think well and using a survival strategy like that to the excess that's exactly what your mind in some ways of thinking about that's what your mind is supposed to do your job is to over to supervise your mind and make sure that it's not in charge but your mind is supposed to say okay this worked let me do that forever and ever in every situation because that emotional side of your mind uses very blunt tools yeah yeah and your book actually the user's guide to the human mind I think there's a whole chapter dedicated saying that happiness is not the purpose of your mind I'm assuming survival and reproduction are much more the purpose of what your mind wants happiness is your job yeah your mind doesn't care if you're happy yeah your mind just doesn't want you to get run over by a bus or a narcissist or whatever it was or eaten or something yeah yeah talk speaking let's get to your book more in a second here before we move off see PTSD now PTSD anyone who looks into this the history of it Wikipedia articles and stuff they'll see that PTSD used to be basically ignored it wasn't taken seriously shut in and there's a whole history of how it was described there was like shell shock was one of the names for it before it came formalized and a couple other ones like that but eventually it was called PTSD and eventually it was accepted into mainstream psychology as a legitimate legitimate diagnosis for people especially war veterans and stuff yeah do you think that CPTSD will follow that same track over the coming years and decades till it's accepted I kind of think it will and I hope it will because I think I don't know anything about prevalence rates but just from personal observation I think it's more prevalent than PTSD so a person can get into a car accident and have PTSD and that certainly happens but I mean it happens a lot that sort of thing but it happens a lot also that people have this scatter shot approach like you described to where the anxious reaction builds over time through several incidents yeah so I was pouring some water there so let's get more into your book so your book is actually I think it's a lot of in a lot of ways related to and to me it makes sense anyway it's very consistent with CPTSD so you're talking about I mean the subtitle of the book is why our brains make us unhappy, anxious, and neurotic and what we can do about it and for me the way I interpret that from your work and from following Richard's work and a few others like Alice Miller a Swiss psychologist who died about 10 years ago now I love her work too though basically negative emotions are actually very useful and they're not always bad even if we consider them and maybe accurately so negative like they're instructive and they're useful and this is something that I did not understand in my 20s and I don't even think the manifestor really you know points out too often other than a few exceptions like trust your gut you know the woman if you're seeing a red flag and your gut says get away you know you need to listen your gut get away but outside of like gut feelings quote unquote it's like depression is seen as bad anxiety is seen as bad all these things but your book I think is describing that they're really not they're it's your brain telling you something you need to listen to it is that accurate an accurate take on your work and can you expand on that? yeah that's an accurate take and I wrote that book and I published it in 2011 which means I wrote it before then so it's it's a decade old now which is kind of weird to think about and that's about the last time I looked at it but yeah the basic the reason I wrote the book was because there's all this you know I had been in practice for several years and I started my practice focusing on anxiety disorders and I had some reasons for focusing on anxiety disorders one of those reasons is that you can have a lot of success working with anxiety disorders because people tend to be very motivated and there's some great research and technology out there for dealing with it and so it just seemed like a great way to get out of the gate with a lot of successes and so the few years into my practice I noticed I started to notice well I actually noticed this fairly early on that this literature that's out there is great there's a whole body of behavioral literature that talks about anxiety disorders but it wasn't written for guys like me like if you'd given me any of that literature when I was in my 20s it just wouldn't have registered and so I wanted to write a book that was a book I would have been able to read when I was 20 when I didn't have much language about emotion I didn't have much language about how the brain works and write a book that doesn't pathologize what your mind is doing because that's what a lot of this literature really leads to is that is really key you undo the pathologizing of depression and anxiety and there's not many I didn't feel there's many people in my 20s that did that you know if I looked into depression or anxiety you wouldn't if you look around on Google real quick searching for these these diseases and these symptoms you don't get like actually depression can be useful and you should listen to it and change your life or you know take action from it yeah it's starting that message is starting to get a little bit of traction but you have to look for it it's not the first thing that pops up on Google yeah so if I'm feeling anxious or depressed and maybe even suspect clinical depression why is that useful and you know what should I do as a young man because I'm sure those guys watching that have felt that way before and what should they do and who should they maybe you may not I don't know if you can recommend they go see a psychologist or not but what should they look for and like what should they to get better and to make their life better without just pathologizing depression and beating themselves up over it because that's the thing I find too is you get like Richard talks about you get into this cycle of you know I feel depressed why I feel shitty for being depressed it's like this it's like a depression inception you just get into this multi-layered insanity of not sanity but just keeps going like a rabbit hole depression and anxiety and stuff so what should the guys do if they feel that way well if you're in your early twenties and you're if you're a young guy and you're you're facing this depression I think the first thing to know is that a lot of young guys feel depressed because being a young guy kind of sucks because you're supposed to have your act together but you don't know what you're doing and you know you're at your lowest value to women and and being a 20 year old dude kind of sucks in a lot of ways and so it's kind of a depressing time but if it feels like it's beyond what should be normal and and it's you know if that depression isn't motivating you to go out and do something which depression is kind of weird because it's it's there to solve a problem but it's also very demotivating and so yeah it's slippery hard to get out of it is really slippery that's a good word for it and so I would say go see a psychologist and get get assessed for it because it's not always a useful emotion sometimes there's something going on that's that's a little that's that's more on the physical side sometimes I would say that's not the majority of times usually there's something that you're trying to solve and you're just not solving it effectively because you don't know how to do it yet it's not a shaming thing that you don't know how to do you just don't know how to do it yet but it can have biological origins you're saying too yeah and you know the more you live in that state the more your brain sort of adjusts to that state and if you practice playing the piano for a really long time you're gonna get at playing the piano if you practice certain kinds of thoughts that are depressing and demotivating you're gonna get very good at doing those thoughts over and over so yeah I don't know if I'm answering your question but I no yeah so let me give you more succinct answer if you're depressed define the problem like where is this coming from is this coming from some problem that I need to solve or is everything really going pretty well and there's clearly something else going on with me in which case maybe you need to go to the psychiatric route and and possibly look at some medications I think you know one of the problems with our medical systems with depression is that you go to a you go to your primary care physician and you say I'm depressed and that primary care physician doesn't have much training in mental health and so their first response is well I have a pill that can make that go away and the pill can sometimes make things a lot worse and so the pill needs to be the last option rather than the first option the first option needs to be like you just get your baselines in order your sleep your diet your exercise like let's get things moving and that alone will sometimes cure a lot of low level depression and then from there you start looking different behavioral interventions and then eventually you might get to you need some help here medically yeah yeah that seems that seems pretty reasonable no wonder you're in a minority of of your field and I think most of the colleges would say the same thing okay okay most physicians I don't know that they would argue with a necessarily just like they're not they don't get much training in mental health it's their it's just their first response like a knee jerk response to it like take a pill to do this instead they spend 10 years learning you find a problem you have this medical intervention for it so why should mental health be any different from from that point of view yeah I like your take too though that you know brain like you're saying they can be problems from it I've read about that with serotonin and things like that from a specifically antidepressants that can like re re-train these things and then you're you're stuck to it and if you know if you get off of it can cause problems yeah and the research out there's kind of unreliable because everybody who does any research on antidepressants has has an agenda clearly the drug companies have an agenda and then you have people on the academic side that have an agenda against those those medications so you have to be kind of careful how you do it but some of the research I find pretty compelling is that when you take an SSRI serotonin selective serotonin reopic inhibitor you're messing with the serotonin system in your brain and you can down regulate those neurons meaning that they they stop producing as much because there's an abundance in between nerve cells that's just hanging out of this chemical and so your your brain stops producing as much and once you get to the point where you've down regulated to a certain period of time it can be very difficult to get back to the baseline on your own yeah it sounds a lot like steroids that are being abused your testicles will shrink because they're not needed because you have so much testosterone flowing through your blood yeah it's a good good analogy your body is this yeah it's not surprising I guess so you're what you're saying because it's like what is the body what do you expect the body to do it always wants to conserve and to you know maintain homeostasis and stuff not expend extra energy and resources and stuff it doesn't need so yeah yeah it's way too logical that's just something you stop producing it yeah I like to by the way so I interviewed Dr. Warren Fail recently Warren Farrell who author of The Boy Crisis and in his book with his co-author they talked about ADHD and they did take a position that ADHD is not over diagnosed but it is over prescribed and over medicated and that was kind of interesting take on it because sometimes I see people swing to like like mainstream like you know just give pills pop pills all these little kids you know which I think is really bad but then also you people that go complete completely like never take any of the stuff never take you know and it it's the extreme it's like it's like like vaccination stuff it's like you people who are like never take it we're all going to die it's all it's all mark of the beast and then you have people who are like everyone needs a mandatory vaccination you know bend over and take a shot up your ass or you're killing grandma right so it's like these really these swings yeah yeah who would have thought yeah they continue on the spectrum yeah let's go into more of the hemisphere you were hitting that a little bit so you did a video not too long ago on your channel where is it boom five months ago now wow time flies holy shit yes this year is crazy but you did a big video on hypergamy and kind of the man it was your critique on the pretty long too 42 minutes you know pretty longer and this seemed to be a critique of the man's fears use of the term hypergamy which is distinct from the its sociological origins from like the 80s of the 90s or whatever he talked to me about the basis of this video that got a lot of traction I know who's talked about on twitter a lot and you know on youtube and stuff yeah well I made that video because I get asked this question by I was getting asked this question so many so often and so two things I needed to do number one I was never comfortable asking the question what do you think about hypergamy because it's such a big question you can go 20 different directions with that question so I was never comfortable answering that question because I hadn't done my research on it from you know that there's there's two forks in the road here so I was like there's there's you whatever I could find in academia in the the professional literature about hypergamy versus what's out there in the manasphere and in forums and on reddit and so forth about hypergamy so that was question number one is I needed to I felt like I needed to have some kind of coherent answer and then the other thing I was trying to accomplish there is I never wanted to talk about it again because I felt like I wanted to just like put something out there so that when somebody asked me I could just say okay well here's 42 minutes if you have 42 minutes to kill and so yeah I broke down what hypergamy is from that academic sense and from the more the ideological red pill and I used the term red pill hypergamy theory because it seems that there's this whole framework that has grown up around this idea of hypergamy and kind of organically I think yeah yeah and I don't think it was as far as I could tell it wasn't one person who came up with it I think they're individuals who would like to lay claim to the to the term because they've done a lot of work on it that's fine you know if I think if you've done a ton of work on something then yeah you should be able to lay some claim to the term but um yeah I think it was it was a crowd sourced idea and my basic take on it is that yes hypergamy is real in the sense that women tend to want to date across across and up social hierarchies and in fact that's a phrase that Jordan Peterson used women date across and up dominance hierarchies is what he said and I don't know how you would argue against that it's just it's so patently obvious that you'd be silly to try to argue against that just like you'd be silly to argue that a man doesn't want to get the most physically attractive woman he could find I mean why would he not so so we'll take that as a given because until somebody because that's that's a natural thing and so if you're going to tell me that this natural thing doesn't exist then I'm going to say well you're going to have to demonstrate that it doesn't exist it's such a basic fact but then the manager takes this simple idea and they start injecting things like ovulatory shift theory which has been completely discredited and you'll look it up Oh anybody who wants it sounds like treason in the manager Mr. Sean Smith well yeah there you what do they call you even you erotic there's been a lot of a lot of studies lately by by very respectable people like I'm not going to name say names because I think I'm going to screw it up if I do but very respectable researchers have come on say is not it's really not much here and so you add that into high programming and then you find some I don't know some sea turtles with sperm competition or whatever kind of obscure thing that you can inject into this Oh there's one with flies they have do you see that by your to go it's a basically and so so Manusphere guys and may we'll see what happens but they're worried that in flies they found in some scientific studying it was supposed to be pretty legit that basically flies when a woman when a female fly or whatever is inseminated by a male fly and then another one another one small elements of the DNA of the sperm and the the male fly they basically get stuck in her brain and as as she keeps you know you know reproducing with these male flies and the concern is everyone's like Holy shit does this happen in women or women who being inseminated I mean it's a it's plausible I guess but there's no proof of it yet but basically then it would have a lot of it would have a lot of correlation though to women that we as we say and has been has show is pretty clear in statistics that women as they gain partner counts they lose the ability to pair bond and they lose the ability to be happy in a marriage to find Molly knew many others have shown huge graphs on this and is as they rack up a count not just one but five 10 20 their their ability to be happy and be in a relationship just falls off a cliff and so the the the worry though is that we're like humans are like flies and that they're getting male DNA stuck in their brain yeah I've seen those studies and I find them compelling that that women when they well people in general I'd say this is true for men too to some degree to a lesser degree though that when people really start tinkering with their ability to bond with other people they're going to have difficulty bonding with other people and I don't think it's because you get sperm stuck in your my love on God or whatever but getting back to this idea of hyperboi waterboy waterboy reference your medulla along on it yeah so getting back to hyperboi my basic conclusion was that conceptually this red pill hyperboi theory it's just a mess like I know and I'm sorry I know there are guys out there who think this is dissertation level stuff but you could only think that if you've never seen a dissertation it's just it's just a mess but that doesn't mean that there aren't some good lessons that come out of it and I think that's really where the value is that and one of the primary lessons is that you know like like this message that you're good enough the way you are as a man you know just show her who you are and you know she'll she'll fall in love with you and all that kind of sappy romantic stuff that get inundated with it it doesn't apply you know that you need to be you need to be out there earning it every day and so if you need if this theoretical framework of red pill hyperboi theory helps where you remember that you need to be getting after after it every day okay fine like I got no problem with it okay no before we move off this topic no I love it man I mean you're gonna your ends your head's gonna up on a pike if you keep saying this stuff in the hemisphere but I got you I got your back I think it's great I think I've already been excommunicated that that's a oh my god maybe you can catch the rocket with Elon Musk you know like you were talking about on Twitter I was laughing at that when you tweeted that can I catch the next rocket off this planet yeah um we do have a question from the audience someone taking a second uh someone wrote it but I did want to ask as well any are there any other big man a sphere popular wisdoms that you're critical of for example you know this is a pretty popular saying I'm sure you're familiar with it you know she's not yours it's just your turn she's not really you know yours and all that just your turn you know I see guys you know maybe there's Samara to this on some level but I see guys saying that who've been in relationships for like five 10 20 plus years and it's like man that's a long turn like assuming she hasn't cheated on you like your your turn is like multiple decades right um and so it's it's it's very strange to see it's kind of these kind of sayings pop up and you'll you'll see you'll see you'll see guys criticize it they'll like cobertate who's Mr Alpha bad boy you know 10 million and he's again it's stupid let's what losers say and blah blah blah so is there do you have any more man-sphere uh popular wisdoms that you like to criticize or you have beef with well yeah I can name a couple of things but I want to say first of all I'm very thankful that it exists because the community not yeah the community I'm really pleased that the red pill community is out there because even if it's an imperfect framework it's a framework and it's a place to start and so many guys are coming into relationships with no framework or with a framework that is really counterproductive and it's going to get them hurt so thank god that the red pill community exists that said yeah there's a couple of things number one you know friend of mine says that the red pill community has resting bitch face like it's just a grumpy place is jesus and and I think part of the reason it's grumpy is because you have a lot of guys that they're a little bit traumatized and they haven't dealt with it maybe you know I'm not here to diagnose anybody because I don't know what's going on anyone's particular life but they tend to lose sight of the fact that yes women can be opportunistic and they can be hypergamist to use that word well they are hypergamist in the traditional sense classical sense but they can be hypergamist in the in the more red pill cynical sense but they can also be tremendously devoted and nurturing and I think that's the part that gets lost in the red pill community okay yeah it uh and yeah you made a good point though thank god that the whole red pill community exists I do agree with the the grumpy aspects and things like that that was not when I found the red pill community in 2016 that was not lost on me and I was already familiar with other elements of the Manusphere too but overall I think it's very positive still even even even in its most negative elements it's still like a very it's men who want to get better and there is a big self-improvement focus that I think is very genuine and it's men who want to help each other for free for paid I mean you have all kinds of uh there's since the day one in the 90s with the Manusphere it's always been this this this uh dualistic uh focus with people you know doing stuff for free you know out of the goodness or the heart or whatever and wanting to get back and then also people charging but a lot of it being very good some of it's crap of course like any industry of course but a lot of it's uh it's very positive place yeah and it's do the red pill community is doing something that my profession can't seem to wrap its head around which is talking to men about relationships in a way that's that's accurate and useful and helpful because what you get from my profession is a very feminized view of relationships in a very feminized view of what you were as a man are supposed to do and it's sometimes useful sometimes extremely counterproductive so the red pill community is an antidote to my profession and thank god for that yeah yeah yeah good stuff uh let's get some more here's a question from a viewer we can pop on here from am Dr. Sean be kind as to oblige my humble request is it normal after the dissisting from long-term substance abuse for your subconscious to at times produce very negative overwhelming memories I guess he's referring to emotional flashbacks almost here yeah yeah and without knowing more about the situation I would say absolutely yes and I would say that a lot of times the purpose of substance abuse is to try to try to control internal experience you're trying to get away from that depression that anxiety those memories whatever it is that's how a lot of people use a lot of substances and so trying to numb numb pain basically numb pain get away yeah get away from memories and feelings and so when you take that away what's going to show up well memories and feelings okay oh here is thanks for answering my plea for help you understand what I'm experiencing Mr. Anthony you're a blessing of manhood Dr. Sean thank you for your expertise God bless you gentlemen thanks it's what my wife said about me I'm a blessing of manhood so yeah but yeah you if you're so let me just say if you're dealing with if you're a guy dealing with substance abuse community is the best thing for you get out there and get some accountability with other guys AA is great for that but AA is not for everybody alcoholics anonymous and it's thunderclick for everybody but go out there and get some kind of community in your corner yeah yeah I've heard some I do agree the community element I've heard a lot of negative things about AA too though unfortunately yeah it's it's great for some people it's not a good fit for others yeah let's shift gears a little bit I've flipped over my paper of unlimited questions to have for you what is your take on the state of I call it gender relations in America today however you want to approach that question because we see a lot we hear a lot about race relations in the news and stuff obviously lately with you know the riots and all that but more generally you know America is about 50-50 you know male-female like most countries what is your take on that and where it's gone in your lifetime you're quite a bit older than me in your 40s I'm 31 now I'm not you've seen a lot oh and your 50s no shit yeah oh shit well good all right good for you man looking young dude but what is your take on the state of gender relations I mean you've in just recent years of course you've seen me too and all that we've seen the rise of feminism the rise of cancel culture which I think is heavily associated with feminism and as well as the feminine side that you're talking about so gender relations in America where is it now where was it when you were younger and where do you think it can go where should it go where I think it is right now is that most people whatever that means the vast majority of men and women just want to get along with each other but you've got these loud mouths that are just out there stirring the pot and trying to shut people down and just being miserable scolds and for whatever reason we've given them the stage right now and I don't think it's going to last forever I think there's there's some really good people out there fighting against this but I think we will always come back to an equilibrium between men and women because that's how we function best together historically and that's how we're going to function best together going forward yeah yeah one of the things I thought about earlier in the show but I didn't get a chance to voice it as of yet but you mentioned them you know we talked about the manosphere focusing too much on looking for negative horror stories which on Reddit there's a whole bunch of them outside the man is for two there's like dead bedroom communities with hundreds of thousands of people in it there's all kinds of really screwed up communities on Reddit way beyond they make the red pill look like a really happy unicorn place like a teddy bear land but you know what comes to mind though when you're talking about this the focus on the horror stories most so many marriages in America fail I think not even descending in divorce but they fail even if they don't end up in divorce they fail just like in this lifelong drudgery like a zombie relationship so I think the failure rate for marriages is pretty high it's above even the divorce rate but some marriages and relationships work they don't they not only work they work really really well that just in a functional way like people are really happy and committed to them you seem to be an example of that I know there's plenty of other speakers like Tanner Guzzi and Hunter Drew and stuff that we know who are in awesome would appear to be and as far as I know are really awesome relationships and that seems to get a very low volume in the manosphere and it gets it gets thrown out as unicorn this and whatever yeah so yeah just comes to mind with the gender relations it's some relationships work and they work really really well yes if you come in you know what you're you know yourself you know what you're doing you know how to vet and choose wisely yeah it can work very well yeah but I even see it it almost feels like there's a pathologizing of it though like we call that like if we if like the manosphere sees some especially the ripe oak community they see a functioning healthy long-term marriage relationship they're like blue pill dream blue pill dream blah blah blah it's like what's wrong with you know trying to build a family like that's that's blue pill that's bad like what yeah and and I I don't know where that comes from on any individual basis to try to crap on someone else's success but yeah I think a lot of that is just if I had to generalize I would say it's guys who are worried that someone else is going to get burned in marriage and so they're saying don't do this you know yeah this is an outlier don't try for this because it can happen for you yeah yeah crabs in a bucket almost is what it feels like a little bit yeah so let's move on to talk to me about your bright triad that you discussed in the tactical guide to women that was the first time I'd ever seen that concept and that's opposing it you that's a plan words from the dark triad which is not a personality disorder but it is a personality a cluster of personality traits I believe so it's described the dark triad is what Machiavellianism psychopathy and narcissism yes that's and so that your bright triad is clarity and maturity and stability something George Bruno maybe that's where he got it from maybe talk to me about the bright triad though and you know isn't that just some blue pill dream this is all just that's unicorn hunting why are you gonna hunting Sean why are you teaching again guys we're gonna get burned man yeah yeah I'm a hack I guess but the reason I came up with this concept is because I was writing this book you know the reason I wrote the tactical guide to women is because as I was working with couples I was noticing these mistakes you know guys were coming in couples were coming in in which the guys had made the same mistakes different guys had made the same mistakes over and over and over again I was seeing this very clear pattern of mistakes that men make because they're not being selective about women and so I started going through literature and through my old files and looking at okay what is the the bare minimum basic that basic qualities that a female human being needs to possess to be successful in a relationship and so I came up with clarity of intent emotional maturity and and stability and that's all it is it's just a bare minimum like here's here's your low bar here's what she needs to have if she's gonna succeed at all in any any kind of interpersonal relationship for a long period of time and it's it's a pretty low bar but guys are not taught that hey you can you can be selective about women like you can have standards and so here's a very basic standard you can have yeah I don't know I think low bar is a bit over aggressive on characterizing it I would say it's as fundamental as you're teaching guys to focus on yeah that might be a better yeah I think that is a better word it's a fundamental yeah you do harsh on yourself man I think it's some fundamentals you know it's good good starting points yeah yeah which are becoming which are becoming hard to find I I feel as a it's it's funny because I feel that the you know clarity and these the maturity and stability I mean I grew to a million percent like if I'm going to be in a relationship with a woman I definitely want these to seem really important especially if I want her to be the mother of my children someday like I don't want some I don't want a lack of these for my children as a parent that's really really bad right but emotional maturity take that one for example how many of us had fathers who sat us down or went on a walk with us or whatever and said hey here's here's some basic emotional skills that a woman should have so that you don't end up at three in the morning having some stupid argument that's been going on for a week yeah I've been I know these man I've seen even outside of a relationship I've seen some of this stuff yeah I feel though like and I've talked a lot of my friends that are my age even younger and we feel even from 2010 you know approaching woman picking woman up to now 2020 there's been this massive shift in behavior in America that I don't see and it's like while some of the negative things the lack of these is what you see you see the it feels it feels like and so we're concerned with bias legitimately like are we just biased are we are we the ones with the issue here is it like it feels like the population of women that have these qualities are decreasing and now one of the ways I've seen to put that really good is from AJ Cortez the guy we know from the convention a speaker and he showed he was in his speech in Poland last year at the 21 convention he's basically saying there's always been a bell curve so to speak of female behavior by male behavior too right but you have these good girls and you have these really bad girls I mean they say prostitution is the oldest career in history right and then you have the people in the middle you have the middle you know sixty eighty percent of women that are just like the average woman and they are and there's still a spectrum though right what AJ Cortez is proposing is that do maybe to feminism and all the other cultural forces we've seen in the past couple decades maybe even technology like birth control we've seen bad behavior shift from being a the bottom minority of the population to filtering into the bell curve like the middle population and that feels like it's picked up a lot of steam and in the past 10 15 years and I started picking up girls and approaching women at bars and stuff and in college about 15 years ago 2006 2005 2006 and so I feel like these things are disappearing in America in the west and it just sucks as a young man trying to find what are the things going on that that the if the female population is changing what's causing that I think feminism is picking up steam I think maybe and maybe that's a good thing maybe it'll burn itself out maybe there'll be consequences like they say politically that tyranny sows sows the seeds of its own destruction so maybe we're seeing that with feminism maybe they're ramping up of feminism maybe the me too and you know I think the witch hunt and the craziness of a couple years ago still occurring now to a degree maybe that amping up I think that's an example of this I mean the number of young what like I don't even know how I want to I have concerns about voicing this on air it feels like you know for example in the 90s and when I grew up as a kid you know we heard the campaign in school even in elementary school and then middle school and high school no means no no means no no means no it was very clear and easy to understand and then of course in California they tried changing laws and more recently it's like yes means yes and all these and yes means whatever so that's an example but it's as well like an attitude shift of basic definitions and basic relationships between men and women like the standards of rape and assault and stuff no means no was a very clear thing that people could understand and now it's this hazy mixture of me too and allegations and this basically rape hysteria like this is like the same on witch trials and men today it feels like so I don't know if I've answered your question but just feels like shit's running off the rails to be honest with young women well yeah ideologically it certainly is on campuses you know if I've I got to the point a long time ago where my advice to young men is do not date women on campuses like there's nothing there that you can't get somewhere else so you're there to do a job do your job get in get out treat your classmates like you would treat a co-worker they're off limits but you know that may be a little bit overly cautious but to your point clearly there's some ideological influences and it sounds like you're also saying that maturity you know the basics maturity stability that kind of stuff you're seeing less of that in younger women yes and I asked you I think a long time ago in the red man group maybe a year or two ago when we were early episodes like it feels in a way like what you would see in books from the 2000s and even the 90s and cluster B disorders you're seeing behavior that will be considered like a personality disorder maybe or a symptom of it you're seeing that everyday woman it's like it's like social media and modern feminism and modern culture has been normalizing what even 20 years ago would have been considered like a symptom of a personality disorder like really bad stuff I mean look at Instagram Instagram is filled with women Instagram the average woman today in America young woman treats herself in a way like a soft core porn model from the 90s like her Instagram is filled with pictures of her boobs and her butt and I like boobs and butt on women but I don't think women should be posting this stuff in public 24 seven and then they're like in this World of Warcraft style addiction with like leveling up their Instagram account I don't know if I'm running off the rails with this but yeah maybe technologies played a role birth control you know the internet social media is really kind of still new too but yeah you're seeing you know very bad behavior becoming normalized and it's specific to America though like I don't know what the poem last year you didn't see this women they would brag that they don't use Instagram that they they barely even don't even have an account half the time so it seems to be unique to America on the West as well where feminism is more dominant and stuff well so since everything sort of cycles back and forth I wonder if that will I wonder if you'll see that in America where you start seeing American women bragging that they don't have an Instagram account and I'm sure there are some now but yeah I don't know I don't know any women but I know a man a couple men that do my age that brag that they don't have Instagram yeah the girls will ask them and they legit if they're not even lying like hiding it this don't they don't have social media and it's it actually it makes you stand out like today if you don't if you don't have Facebook or you know Instagram and stuff you're just an oddity like why don't you have that what's wrong with you why are you not come on sheep open up your Instagram account yeah I guess I would love to yeah yeah out there then um but is that still is that still whole true I mean do you is that something you've seen maybe in popular culture that you're seeing what would be considered you know not too long ago symptoms of a personality sort of being betrayed by the average woman not even considering the men yet but just woman doing the stuff posting through their ass and stuff all day on the internet yeah but I don't spend I don't have Instagrams I don't spend any time on there and I'm so I don't you know I can't speak about what's going on there I do see that personality you know that that disorder personality conflict showing up in ideologies like feminism I think feminism is it has a lot of the characteristics of borderline personality disorder it's on a larger scale it's you can't win you can't win with feminists you're walking on eggshells because you don't want to say the wrong thing they're just digging up the past stirring up conflicts it has a very borderline feel to it but as far as that filtering down to individual women I guess if an individual woman buys into the ideologies she's going to buy in a little bit of that dynamic but I also see the other side because I meet a lot of millennial women and younger women that to me I mean I'm not discounting what you're saying because I think it's absolutely true but I also see this other side where I see younger women that really seem to have their act together like there's a I have a family member really great guy he got married this weekend and she's wonderful like she's not on Instagram she's just a wonderful woman like she checks all the boxes and she's great and so I see women like that are still out there and so I don't lose hope okay yeah I've been you know we can get into this as well but with the make women great again campaign that I started earlier this year for the upcoming convention for it and all that and stuff and then as it seems to have its own life on the internet just as a the fact that the convention even exists seems to have spawned its own media outrage to the nines I mean it reached over a hundred million people but because of that I would actually say that the number of women who follow me that have their shit together that are much more in favor of like very positive approach to femininity they don't hate men they don't like they're annoyed and they're aggravated with women who do hate men openly or covertly or in any combination of the two but these are like legitimately good women who they have some of of YouTube channels they have podcasts and stuff they run some of them are just individual women but I've attracted a lot more than those followers very consistently they're cheering they're cheering us on me and all the speakers and stuff for it so yeah there are there are definitely still women who have their shit together but I think it's you know pretty tiny minority today unfortunately kind of sucks well that yeah that does suck if that's true and if it's true yeah yeah well and you know if that's your experience then I believe because you're out there and you've got your finger on the pulse I'm just an old dude sitting in an office but yeah yeah I'm concerned though that my I'm I just keep picking up women off bumble and tender and bars and stuff so it's a very specific population so I do I'm still skeptical to a degree I'm like well like Goldman Elish you know another speaker that we know he did a tour throughout America last year and pretty driving around Florida all over the east coast you know in middle America Arizona and stuff I think and he had a much more positive experience traveling through rural towns meeting people meeting women and stuff and that gives me hope that there's still like a lot of people outside of cities that are much more including women are much more level-headed and not into this whole social media you know post pictures of mass all day lifestyle right so what would be your best advice for a younger guy that's trying to meet a woman who's a little more grounded leave the cities is my well that's what I'm doing next I'm gonna go to South Dakota and go see Matt Rushmore and their governor's beautiful I was amazed so I was like wow it's like the hottest governor ever I don't know of her but I take a look yeah just South Dakota governor that was I was like that's like that's how the governor looks I want to see how the woman my age look yeah our governor's don't be looking ugly dude we got we got yeah no this tricks this tricks pretty good looking yeah totally yeah I'm gonna leave the city and see what's out there yeah now I've tried that in Florida a bit I've tried going meeting women out more like at the beach towns and stuff where Tony Bruno lives church Bruno's brother and honestly I think it's as Florida Florida's this filled with crazy men and women like there's a whole meme for it the Florida man the Florida woman there's a whole subreddit for it it's hysterical it seems to be unique to Florida and I'm going to talk I mean people immediately accused me of being Florida man when I did this thing yeah well there there is that that old meme that that goes around with the rest of the country you see a bizarre headline guess what guess what state it's from it yep exactly but I want to that's fair that's probably not fair it's probably not fair yeah I like I like joking with it though I know that I even did a whole tweet thread about it a couple months ago just talking about the Florida the Florida people we've different classes of Florida people actually it's not all one unified homogenized thing because there's such a fascinating mix of people there yeah totally yeah and wildlife and the state itself it's all very unique the whole state so we're surrounded by water almost you know it's a peninsula yeah but you have you have the key you got the key west people though the key west conks they seceded from the union back in like the 80s I think really yeah the conch public yeah the mayor and the city council they seceded for like a day okay and then they surrendered but but they're real crazy in key west and then you got the beach people on the east coast you got central Florida people you got all kinds of the Miami people you know the Cubans and Hispanic communities so Florida is a it is a wild place but the beach I found the beach girls though to be pretty crazy as well and a lot of them actually I mean that that sounds harsh but they a lot of them come to Orlando too they drive in it's about an hour not even they come to the bars here and like anytime I know they're from cocoa beach or any Melbourne beach and stuff out there I'm like well there's a lot of drugs out there for example and it's specific to the beach towns I don't know why there's small towns but like or like really serious there's like really high murder rates in cocoa beach believe it or not it's like one of the murder capitals of America really yeah it's pretty wild you would never guess that it's like the Ranjan Surf Shop Beach Town Cocoa Beach and there's like a ton of drugs and stuff and murder and violent crimes all right so not the ideal place to to meet your average woman no it was not the rural America that Goldman was referring to but I'm going to check out more rural America is what I want to do and see what that takes me and then also and he'd go into Eastern Europe which I really enjoyed poem last year a lot of it the culture the history the country even getting to know meeting the men there and stuff but the women especially I was blown away with especially if they were from Poland but also the ones that were visiting from Ukraine other countries they were so feminine they were so positive they were much more cheerful none of this resting bitch face stuff there was no confusion about being a woman or being a man it felt like they they were a acting like woman as I would think of woman and they were a you felt like they expected you to act like a man like if you open a door for a girl there I don't think they're gonna like jump down your throat and accuse you of toxic masculinity or treat you like you're some beta schmuck it's very it feels like 1950s America I think but with cell phones and stuff if that makes sense so I really enjoyed that and they're really smart too and like educated and they speak like in America you know a woman obsessed over you know Disney Plus and reality TV in Poland they speak like three languages fluently and they talk to you about like classical art and like music and stuff it is the night it's absolutely and they're beautiful and hot and fit and they dress well and they're nothing or fat there's no fat people in Poland no fat women no fat men unless you're a tourist it's it's amazing like so for me it was like heaven and that I want to explore more of and see where that takes me as well yeah well I'll be curious to hear what you think about rural America and I had a similar experience when I was I spent 10 with us in Sarajevo and I was warned before I got there that it's gonna look like a fashion show you need to up your game a little bit where's Sarajevo what's that it's in Bosnia it'll all Oh Bosnia yeah oh yeah yeah and it was um you know my parents are my grandma's from Croatia and all that out there okay yeah yeah beautiful country a lot of a lot of a lot of history there and it's not all good yeah but um yeah I know I know that's I guess that's every place but yeah that I was warned that the women they're going to be walking down the street like they're in the fashion show and and they were and it's just sort of a different even back then there's just sort of a different different mentality about things but yeah I'll be curious to know how rural America compares to Tinder so maybe you can yeah see more of America too more it's not as a woman I want to see like a lot more of America the Midwest has not a place I'm familiar with closest I've gotten would be like Denver, Colorado okay so but yeah I'm just excited as well to explore more of Eastern Europe and maybe go to Ukraine next year I was going to go this year until shit at the fan and the world was collapsing you know more more Poland more of Ukraine maybe more Croatia I want to see where my family's from most of my family's been there but I haven't so I want to go check it out and like see the woman are beautiful I know that much I met a few Croatian awesome so yeah so I wonder when American women hear men saying what you're saying because you're not the only one saying this there are a lot of guys saying that your options are better overseas you got to be really careful with long distance overseas relationships because it's hard to know somebody when if you're corresponding or you only see each other a couple weeks out of the year that's very dangerous potentially dangerous but anyway a lot of guys are saying women who are not from America are preferable to American women and I wonder how this how this strikes American women there I don't that is a good question my my first thought that came to my head that honestly popped in is that they're just oblivious to it it's not that they don't even care it's that they don't really believe it and most I think most Americans and women included they just haven't their world view is so fixated on America which is such a huge country right I mean it's understandable you know never mind then you can what are you gonna go visit Canada which is very similar anyway and stuff people are going to cruise to like Mexico to Cozumel for a day they don't travel and get out and see the world or if they do they just do all kinds of crazy shit on Instagram but I don't feel like they're they're not really grasping they're not venturing to other cultures like Eastern Europe is not like it is Westernized to a degree especially Poland it's a really nice country but it's very different from America it's not like going like I've been to Britain a couple of times you know the UK it's not that much different from America same with Australia obviously we speak the same language we share a lot of history and culture together and things like that and the women you'll feminism of course is infected these countries pretty equally America maybe it's the strongest but the other countries pick up soon behind but in Central Europe for example to give you another one with the woman I met there they consider themselves Central European not Eastern European I don't know what the deal what that is but in Poland they make fun of feminism like I had with this hat on I had men and women both asked me if I was a feminist and I was like no not even a little bit and they go okay and they're like they have an animosity to feminism it's open that's socially acceptable which in America is it's non-existent what do women find objectionable there about feminism I don't even think I ever got they just they make fun of all of it I never got the conversations never got that far beyond drinking or something like this weren't like really serious conversations but they just had an they had an animosity to feminism even sniffing they were concerned this make woman great again met feminism pro-feminism I'm like no no no no no feminism ever anti-feminism and like okay yeah it's awesome good and they're just I think because of their history with communism and Nazism the country's been destroyed like so many times and just and ruled dictatorially by Stalin and the Soviet Union that they're very very very averse to anything that's communist or Marxist or anything like that and they sniff that and they sense that feminism they hate it yeah I would have to imagine that they're very sensitive to these extreme ideologies which is what feminism has become it's become a pretty hateful ideology I agree it's more it's not even pro-women it's just anti-male at this point yeah yeah I agree yeah I think you know maybe J.K. Rowling's trying to figure that out too with trying to defend women or whatever she thinks with the the trans-right stuff and all that I had another thought on Poland I wanted to get across but it's slipping my mind at the moment and we can get back to it later in the show if we we need to I did want to ask you a question there is something that I think a lot of Manchester guys would be interested to know so your friends with and you know pretty well Dr. Robert Glover and Ken Curry both are marriage and family therapists Dr. Glover I think as a PhD in marriage and family therapy Ken though is like a masters in it and they both practice marriage and family therapy so for the guys who follow them and know them particularly Robert Glover who's super well known from his book that came out long time ago now no more Mr. Nice Guy what is the difference between what you do as a clinician and as a as a practitioner as a therapist what's the difference like down to the the nuts and bolts of what you do versus what Ken and Dr. Glover do you guys are all buddies you share a lot of the same you share a lot of same ideas and values but you your professions are different so what's the difference there well yeah Robert Glover anybody who hasn't read his book most people most guys in your audience I'm sure have read it if you haven't you have to read it and he really breaks down the nice guy syndrome where you end up in the you end up creating really bad relationships for yourself and you end up kind of bitter and ugly and just turn into kind of a mean person which is not the person you want to be if you're a nice guy so anyway you know he he really focuses on that Ken Curry he's in Denver here with me and he works a lot with he works a lot with men's groups I don't think he works I don't know if he works much with couples maybe he does but he actually gave me a really interesting lesson yesterday and I'll I'll lay that on you in a minute if you want I just happened to been talking to him yesterday and sure what I do when I'm working with couples I'm I don't work with groups I tend I work with you know I still work a little bit with anxiety disorders although I'm not so much more when I work with couples you know I'm not bringing any ideology into the clinic even though I have been very vocal about the ideology that the APA is putting out there and you know if you follow me you can kind of tell where I stand ideologically if I have an ideology I don't bring any of that into the clinic when I'm working with a couple what I'm doing is helping them identify patterns and I'm not taking a feminist feminized approach and I'm not taking an approach that's always going to say the man is right I'm helping them look at how they've got enough track how do we interrupt this pattern start replacing it with something better and because I'm non-ideological and I'm very I tend to be very in the clinic anyway I tend to be pretty disciplined to think or like I want to stick to the facts let's not do a lot of emoting here even though that's a piece of it let's let's get you patched up and Sean you're you're out of fashion man you got to get with the times dude you got to you got to be full feminist and full cancel everything you don't agree with yeah well I've I've certainly yeah cancel everything I disagree with I've certainly had some failures like you can tell when a couple comes in and there's there they're kind of hopeless you know I think I think it's Gottman who outlines the the four horsemen of the apocalypse there's like stonewalling and resentment and so forth and and if you've been doing the work for a while you can just kind of tell when a couple's done and they're just coming in as a as a last-ditch effort to say that they tried but those couples aside I tend to be pretty successful with my couples just because I'm I'm a stick to the facts kind of guy and let's get you let's get you patched together and out of here so that's what I do but you want to hear what Ken was teaching me yesterday yeah sure he was he was talking about let me think about this and gather my thoughts I have to remember something I learned yesterday he was talking about men and women together in relationships and he was talking about when a woman starts to feel insecure and she starts to feel in danger from whatever it is there's something in the environment there's something going on around her that's got her feeling insecure and her natural inclination might be to try to take power away from her man so to start shaming him and start griping at him and start bringing up stuff from the past that might be her natural inclination in an attempt to try to feel secure and safe again and to trigger him into a strength response where he doesn't yeah he doesn't go to with that exactly yes thank you that's the missing piece and Robert Glover talks a little bit about this too I think he talks about women being security seeking creatures mm-hmm so you know that's sort of the other side of hypergamy if women are hypergamous creatures they're also security seeking creatures and so they they don't necessarily want to trade up all the time but anyway so when women are feeling insecure and they're trying to reestablish that that strength in their man they might go about it by trying to tear him down and one of the jobs of the man in that situation is to explain it to the woman and say look you're trying to tear me down right now I get what you're trying to accomplish here in the end run but it's not going to get us there what I need you to do is get behind me and I will take care of things and you know and I will you will feel secure again but we're not going to feel secure by you tearing me down we're going to feel secure by you trusting me if you don't trust me that's okay you know you can go your own way but so women go on their own way we've come a long way to yeah and Ken didn't Ken didn't say that that's my interpretation but there's that freedom there where you can trust me or you cannot trust me but if you're not going to trust me then we're probably not going to work and yeah the way he phrased women the way he explained women trying to re-establish security by tearing their man down yeah it's not pathologizing women it's just talking about a reaction to a situation and it was it was a nice lesson yeah and to a degree you're saying it's natural which will be which would be I agree with you but that's different of course from like a borderline woman with a borderline personality disorder something similar to that who's on an unlimited barrage of doing that which is my understanding they have the abandonment issues they're so deep they never stop trying to tear you down they never stop they never trust you they never stop the distrust yeah I would say exactly like the the insecurity is relentless for somebody who has borderline personalities where it's a horrible connection and we shouldn't be anybody yeah yeah yeah yeah they it's an I guess the mandatory terms we would say that women like that that have that or any symptoms of that they just should test endlessly it just never stops and I've seen that in my life with the few women I think I've dated or had sex with that had this it just never ever stops just keeps going and it's not normal like other women not do that they especially in Poland I would see women it reminded me of you know we talked about this earlier with you know dating women in America and how it's changed over the past 10-15 years in the late 2000s 2008-2009 you know the man the pickup community in the monastery were talking about shift test you'd approach a woman and maybe she she might should test you hard maybe she didn't and she was in you right away maybe she'll just give you a test to play with you and see what you do and that was normal back then and it still happens now what I find in America though is that that shift test kind of doesn't end just keeps going and going and it's just it ends up in a sarcastic insanity whereas in the 2000s it would be hard off the bat maybe and then two minutes into the conversation it would it would die off and she would relax there'd be like a trust element very basic social trust right in Poland though I saw this at the first time in a while you know approached a really hot girl to bar it was late at night it was the nicest bar in Warsaw it was awesome we got like access to it and these Americans they got us in spent these Texans they spent this crazy night it was one of the wildest nights of my life but you know approaches really hot girl and even in Poland Polish women in general always really beautiful and fit and put together so it was extra hot the shift test came super hard and I was like yep shift test leaning into this 100% and sure as shit it stopped like a minute or two later and she does her real whole demeanor like changed her body language changed she just relaxed and I'm like wow I haven't seen a shift test that hard from a girl this hot relax in a long time and I was like this is a lot more normal back in like 2009 2010 in America and that behavior seems to have dissipated maybe due to Instagram unlimited you know likes and attention but that's like one of the things that's kind of referring to is you see that behavior still in Poland and you know Eastern Europe or whatever Central Europe and in America it's like that's really rare now and it's weird it's very weird behavior very strange there's a book out there called stop walking on eggshells and it's about how to how to navigate a relationship if you find yourself in a relationship with someone who has borderline personality disorder and I haven't read the book for a while but the entire book is very well written it essentially boils down to you're being shit tested and you need to not stop you need to stop playing the game yeah yeah another fun game yeah no it's not what was do you mind if I ask what was the particular shit test that you got that was way too drunk I have no idea but it was it was obvious she was it was uh it wasn't screaming or anything too wild it was just you know an approach I was pretty assertive with whatever I said and however I looked you know whatever was going on it was verbal it wasn't anything like running away or anything crazy right nothing she wasn't like trying to get some man involved something really extreme it was this one-on-one and whatever was this verbal she spoke English pretty well most Polish almost all Poles do a lot better than they think they're very like shy about it anyway those you could feel was emotionally kind of sharp and it was you know it was I don't know whatever whatever she said man it was that was way too drunk I really drunk that night Polish vodka is like I don't usually like vodka but Polish vodka is pretty amazing so now I don't remember okay I've no idea yeah I'm always embarrassed when when someone who speaks another language apologizes for their English and their English is perfect and I don't speak speak a word of their language is it like yeah kind of sheepish about that that's exactly me yeah I'm pulling 100% another question I wanted to get by you we have one from audience here actually I don't know if I think you can answer this so he's saying can you discuss the religion of feminism I've called religion the religion of modern woman I don't know if he's inspired by that or not but do you agree with this statement and if so can you dig into this form a little bit you know it's there are some definite definite religious similarities in the structure where you have the high priest and high priest yeah high priest and high priestesses in feminism and you know you don't commit blasphemy but there's a writer out there and he's he's very prolific on twitter named James Lindsay and he has really broken down this woke culture and feminism fits under that and in a very articulate way and he's a good person to read if you really want to look at the religious structure of this this movement what's his name again James Lindsay I think it's L-I-N-D-S-A-Y okay yeah it makes it makes sense I mean it with the religion element what I've said about it you're saying earlier that religion is this or religion feminism has become this really man-hating thing and it's not toxic ideology I think you described it or you would that's all I've described it yeah but when I when I've called but when I've called feminism the religion of modern women I view it there are the high priestesses and priests and the the negativity to it and ideology but I view on a very basic level I define it or I look at feminism as the the primary philosophy of women today in America and the West Canada and stuff in terms of what they actually think what they believe and what they're gonna do like actual major life choices and that's why I think it's it's the religion of modern women today it's what they believe they act on feminist ideology whether they know it or not more than their own however they were raised Catholic or Christian or Jewish or whatever even even more broadly in the culture they're influenced so heavily by it that they'll delay motherhood from you know age 20 21 to 38 years old and it's like that's a really serious decision to make and they don't even think twice about it yeah it is a really serious decision and you know we we all meet women who I think I meet women who get into their 30s and they start panicking about having kids and I feel so bad for them there's what a odd position to be in but you know the ray of sunshine here is that there are increasing numbers of women who do not want that label attached to them so that's that's good I think so too yeah I know Milo Yiannopoulos Milo Yiannopoulos was talking about that years ago their studies in the UK they were showing that very few women identify explicitly as a feminist like 23% or something super low like that and I think that's good too I think that's we're talking about earlier you know the I was saying this the tyranny sows the seeds of its own destruction and I think I hope feminism is doing that maybe that's my own bias my own wish but they're they're especially recent years to me too and the the witch hunt stuff people really don't like that no and there are women who don't like that and there there are some fairly vocal women I couldn't name one right now but I have seen vocal women that really don't like this piece of the culture yeah Christina Hoff Summers he has a couple like that yeah yeah feminism trying to I like that when I when I had my interview with Piers Morgan you know he asked me he he described me as an abolitionist that I wanted to abolish feminism and I was just delighted with that I had never thought of that on my own I was like yes I'm an abolitionist I want to abolish this very toxic negative movement that hurts people men and women both you know in different ways but very toxic and negative yeah I think in some ways it hurts women more than men in some ways yeah you know getting into your 30s and not even having considered having children until suddenly it's an emergency yep that's I think that's a fairly direct result of feminism and it's it's kind of unfortunate yeah I agree another thing too is that with biology and fertility you know it's a one-way track for women it just decreases over time and then kind of has cliffs at 30 like 90% of their eggs are dead at 30 and it I think 95% by like 37 or something that has consequences for genetics and pregnancy and geriatric pregnancy and all this stuff but with the men if we're affected by feminism when we're young as I was you know as most American men are I think we're raised on a diet of Disney and feminism and blue pill stuff you can turn that around and the Manisphere is an example that that's reached millions of men tens of millions even women can turn it around but it takes time and that means at 30 something years old when you're past the wall and your eggs are most of your eggs are literally gone or dead and the ones you have left might be damaged and stuff or they're not as healthy anyway in terms of the DNA and the chromosomes and stuff so it's stuck and they can't undo it as easily because it's physical and that's it it's permanent you know it is and I'm not a traditionalist I think if a woman would rather have a career than a family cool have no problem with that but be intentional about it like give it some serious thought because it's a big decision yeah I agree and I think what ends up happening is most women will like the feminists push that and they're like yeah let's do that and then of course that 80% of them want to flip that around when they're 35 years old so yeah I agree with you like I love my favorite philosopher is Ayn Rand and you know she wasn't a mother Janice Tamanco I don't believe is a mother and she she had a career in academics as a professor and literature and stuff she's a wonderful lady yeah but these things I think were more intentional I know that Ayn Rand was very explicit she didn't want to have children and what she did is influence millions and millions of people and that was her legacy she left to the world yeah but most of them I didn't know yeah I didn't know that she was that she actively outspoken against having kids for herself yeah I don't want to over-characterize that she wasn't like animosity towards it but she chose she talked about it a little bit you can look up articles on it and she chose not to have children she was married so she was intentional about it yes good and there was obviously she had a very deep passion for life for philosophy and writing fiction and she had a huge career that's well known to the state by presidents and stuff you know Trump's a fan of the fountain head Paul Ryan was a fan of out of the shrugs a lot of the politicians and stuff she's left an impact on the world but you know women today do this stuff and they have this dream that they never act on never take any action towards and the meantime they spend their life on you know on Tinder getting their organs rearranged so to speak and their careers of being a manager at Starbucks and it's like you've traded you've traded you know a life of motherhood and family for nothing it's like these old biblical tales you get fooled by the devil you saw your soul and you get nothing at the end yeah yeah and there's I think perhaps there's a a similar dynamic going on with men where you see a lot of men opting out and I'm kind of sympathetic because there's the deck is stacked against you once you sign the contract all your options go away so you better choose wisely but it's also it's another big decision that needs to be treated very deliberately and not just as knee-jerk reaction to what's going on around you which is sometimes pretty ugly yeah final question you saw of course the make one great again make one great again campaign take off earlier this year I'm sure the news articles New York Times New York Post Piers Morgan you saw the so you saw the responses in the backlash to it which is pretty I think pretty hysterical pretty funny I was enjoying from the hell out of it what was your what was your kind of response to the campaign and then what you saw on the internet of millions of people just just screaming about this and retaliation well there's the obvious point that there's no there's never a problem with women having opinions about men but men having opinions about women is apparently controversial and I know that you're you're good you're good at marketing like you got yourself on Piers Morgan show and I did see that interview and I was thinking you idiots don't you know what he's doing he's don't you see what he's doing to you right now I think it was so worked up and you know it was it was good marketing but yeah that double standard where women can have opinions men can't yeah I have opinions you have opinions and you're allowed to have opinions yeah yeah that is a really that's a really big cornerstone of it is that's what it hit on I didn't even intend that I just think it's a great idea I've loved it since the day I saw it before the 2018 convention like a week before the event I rushed over to the first hats when I when I first saw the idea I just fell in love with it immediately but you have a big point you're I think that is a huge point though and that's what I think Janice Hemengo was talking about it on that interview with Piers Morgan and many others that you know men are not allowed to have opinions about women and we're silenced and I think mansplaining that's why I actually called it the mansplaining men of the century because I did I did know that element of it but you know mansplaining is I think an attempt to silence fathers and men even professionals like yourself psychologists and doctors and stuff you're not allowed to have an opinion about women that's not in line with the preordained ministry of propaganda and feminism and the idea that we're going to make them in grade again exclusively men too no women I mean it just it just triggered these people to no end yeah yeah yeah well I'll be curious to hear how it goes yeah I'm excited man I'm really excited yeah we almost lost it because of the pandemic we had a reschedule but now it's coming up in October along with the main events the patriarch and then the main event so and it's coming together okay yeah yeah I'm excited man I'm pumped I signed for the venue about two weeks ago so I got all ready to go found a beautiful one it's a buyer it's a buyer's market right now so the hotels are desperate for business like really desperate and I got a good deal and everything's coming together awesome so these are big contracts you signed does that make you nervous a little bit yeah I mean they're very serious business contracts even if you get a good deal I mean it's all kinds of consequences and penalties if you don't meet this criteria with rooms and this and food and beverage and blah blah blah it has a lot goes into it and I'm fortunate that I've had a lot of experience at this point I've stuck to my guns and stuck to the business for 14 years now our 14th anniversary is coming up in like another week here in July but I learned the hard way I learned you know through trial and error and experience as a teenager and then as a young adult and yeah but it's serious I mean it's the real contract so the biggest contracts I signed and if you fuck up there's consequences so yeah I imagine so well I hope it goes really well yeah me too yeah make women great again man it's coming okay so well thanks for your time this has been awesome there's a couple of things here in the chat but yes we'll wrap up here it's been an hour and 40 so I appreciate your time everybody make sure you check out his books on Amazon oh you got another minute sure let's finish up with this actually I did want to ask you this so these are your two books for women uh slightly different titles The Woman's Guide to How Men Think and The Practical Guide to Men is it for the ladies out there now I know you've said and I don't expect a dissertation on it but that if you were to rewrite these again or provide an updated edition you would change some things so for the 2% of viewers or a woman watching this what are some of the basics you would change about these books for women from what based on what you know now versus what you did not know when you wrote them wow that's an interesting question because one book was one book was trying to help women understand why their men are doing what they're doing sometimes in relationships and then the other one was about vetting men and making good decisions in relationships because just like I saw men making mistakes over and over I saw women making mistakes over and over excuse me so what would I change I don't you know I've I've thought about that a little bit I haven't gone back and looked at those books for a while I think there probably is some stuff that that I would change and but maybe not because the stuff that I was talking about when I wrote those books was about you know for example with vetting men you don't want to find somebody who has a sense of purpose because if he doesn't have a sense of purpose he's going to be lost and he's if he's lost he's not going to be very effective in his relationship and so it was absolutely unapologetic about masculinity and it certainly stick with that and I don't know if there's some little specifics that I might change I might have to go back and revise those at some point yeah nice so it's an updated edition it's possible in the future good to know possibly yeah yeah if they do come out I'll buy them so I can have a huge stack of your books continuing to build up well I appreciate that I have not read those two yet as of yet but at some point eventually when I buy books I tend to take like a year or two to read them which is I don't know if that's ridiculous or not but that's my habit for life but eventually I read them yeah in the same way they sit around for a while before I get to them so much to read out there yeah a lot of good stuff it's a good world we live in if it doesn't burn down yeah it is well thanks for your time has it been awesome to have you back on the show I think the guys enjoyed it a lot and I look forward to having you on the feature at some point and I really appreciate your time man big time working people find out about you too oh I'm on Twitter at Iron Shrink and I have a website docsmith.co okay great to see you Anthony yeah man 100% and everybody make sure you pick up his books on Amazon including his lesser well-known ones the user guide the user's guide to the human mind and if you're just going Amazon and search search Sean Smith and talk today I'm gonna find all these hidden books that are not the title guide to women because I'm sure most of you are already on that book and if you don't you should go buy it immediately so without further ado again Sean you know thanks for being on the show and we'll wrap up here all right much appreciated