 Hello everybody, welcome back to Esoteric Atlanta. Of course, my name is Bryce and I am so excited I am so honored to have Grissant sing here today who is I've known about you I think I told you this I've known about you for quite some time even before I was on YouTube I was following your channel Because I had had an experience with the Kundalini yoga teacher And so I needed to go look up information and I found your channel Grissant because he is a whistle-blower For the Kundalini the yogi Bajon Kundalini yoga cult and before we go any further guys I will put all of this in the description box below But this is Grissant's channel, please please please he's got a lot of really great information And before we go any further to you guys, we were just saying off air, you know cult leaders It doesn't matter what group you're in whether it's a religion a spiritual group a self-help group like nexium Scientology doesn't matter you're going to find a lot of the same behavior Patterns with high control organizations, and this is something that's very important as my friend says Narcissists are going to narcissists. That's just what they're going to do and so it's our job to protect ourselves and Knowledge is power and knowledge protects and so this is Grissant's channel YouTube channel I also you guys he has written a book Confessions of an American Sikh I just got it so I haven't had a chance to start it yet, but I'm super excited about reading it I will be putting a link to Grissant's book Down in the description box below as well Again, thank you so much Grissant for coming on the channel and being very it's it's a hard job to be a whistle-blower You take a lot of a lot of shit from a lot of people who are still heavily indoctrinated when you decide to speak up And point out when something isn't right and I remember growing up in church. There was a poster I remember this poster is the one one of the good things I learned from church that said it said what is popular is not always right and So sometimes yeah thank you for inviting me to your show and I want to Thank all of those people who have come out and have been brave enough courageous enough, especially those people who are abused by Yogi Bajan It's very very hard. Yes. Yes. There you go. Well, yes Yes, yes, and all of those unnamed people too that just for whatever reasons personal reasons I think mostly I've talked to some of the other women who were abused and It's it's really difficult You know, I was never really physically abused by Yogi Bajan and So I I can't really Completely understand what they were went through but From what I've talked to them about it's been really horrific and very very difficult and So, you know, my heart goes out to them and I and I want to give them a Lot of I guess I'd say Good Vibrations or whatever, you know, so because I think that they deserve Most of the attention most of the Acknowledgement, you know that they that people like me who You know, I'm I'm okay with being out there in front of people. It doesn't bother me so much, but for people that were abused and Sexually attacked by Yogi Bajan It's really really difficult and like I said talk to them about it and and It's it's really hard anyway, so yeah, and I will say in Premka's book she it's so interesting I was telling you on the phone or son that I've been so lucky now I've been in Narcissistically abusive relationships, which they say that's a cult of one, you know, but I but my teachers I've always had really integral teachers in India and here in the United States with the same within the same lineage And what got me with Premka's book right away? Was the proximity that Bajan had with his students meaning that he was living with his students, you know It was just it was it was constant constant and my teacher in India I know where he lives, but I've never been to his house. None of us have there's a boundary there You know, that's there's a huge but in our students We are a shong of teachers here in Atlanta our students have never been to our house any time We have like a Christmas party or something a pot. Look we do it at the shawa So there are clear boundaries that are in place and in like my teacher in India I always tell my students this he has very clear boundaries. You do not date your students, you know, not What if I'm in India and if my boyfriend and I are in India together and we're assisting in the shawa Yes, he's assisting while I'm practicing. He has to stay on the other side of the room from me and vice versa So there's clear boundaries about the relationships and and what and that my teacher is my teacher and that's it He's not my friend. He's my teacher and that was something I really noticed about Bajan was that he really blurred those lines between teacher and Then really injecting himself into the personal lives of his students but was seemingly very easy to do and this is kind of where I want to start off with you because What I've noticed about what I don't think Yogi Bajan would be able to do what he did then Now because now we have so much more information and in the 60s. There was no internet There was you know He was able to come to America and Canada and tell this story that he was a holy man from India and make up a bunch of Shit and teach people because there was no reference point. There was no, you know And so can we because is that what did you find Bajan? How did you how were you led to Yogi Bajan? Where where does your story begin with? Well, I first first started taking this so-called Kundalini yoga up at the University of Oregon and I was looking for some kind of spiritual path. I had grown up in a Christian family and Traditional Church of Christ the nomination and That was in Southern, California. So I had a A Typical kind of 60s upbringing where the emphasis was on a lot of materialism and Very I call it Conservative values You know like that and so I Really was Turned off if you will by the hypocrisy Both, you know, my father and then the and then the church ministers. I can remember that the youth minister ran off with one of the Teenage girls and left his wife and yes, you know, and I just I I just Really saw a lot of hypocrisy that was going on there. And so I was searching and and like many of I Peers at that time We wanted something more than just a material Existence and Looking for a Comfortable life. We're looking for a spiritual Life and something that would Last forever, you know and not just be temporary like this world is very temporary and so that led me to Eventually go to the University of Oregon where there was a lot of quote new-age things happening at the time that was in the late 70s and I don't know if you know any of the history of the University of Oregon, but there were there was protest against Vietnam War there and and I didn't participate in any of those but but University Oregon was really known for progressiveness and Thing yeah, so I I Was in I was involved in politics there And I helped a friend of mine become the student body president and I became one of the vice presidents there and I started a Conference it was called the surviving the 80s because we were just coming I think it was the turn of the decade there 1980 and so we had people like Buck, Mr. Filler come and Ralph Nader and all the the people that you know on the kind of the edge of Liberalism and progressiveness and this was be all before I started getting involved with the Kuhlan yoga, so I'm you know I'm interested in these new age concepts and Philosophies and things like that and I was taking all kinds of courses like Chinese brush painting and and studying Chinese literature and Philosophy and all all kinds you just name it. It was all hunger. You're hungry Well, that's and that's what I'm talking about, you know Astrologically like and I'll say this again you guys like and people might know this because we talk about the law one a lot The darkness cannot create anything So if I in my opinion, Yogi Bajama's part of the darkness all they can do all I think that can create is the light And so what darkness does is it steals from the light and it inverts it or twist it? Right so and so it's like right and we know like astrologically. We're coming into the age of Aquarius So it makes sense that around this time because I my story mirrors you Years I grew up in a presbyterian home. I always thought well, this doesn't make sense Like there's something wrong here. This does not seem you know And and so I was I was hungry as well And I was a seeker as well and I my journey ended up in India And just looking for for the meaning of life and like why why we're here and what does this all mean and and yeah the materialism You know, all although it might be fun did not seem fulfilling to me. It was not fulfilling So I think a lot of us and a lot of people on my channel are seekers and are hungry And so when you're young though when you're young and kind of you know, you you're hungry. It's you're so easy It's so easy to not even young even older people if they're just hungry They can fall into the hands of a manipulator Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and so I started taking this kundalini yoga class from doctor soccer pulsing and he was Tenured professor actually and he was teaching these classes there at the University of Oregon So you can see how liberal and progressive University of Oregon was at the time anyway, so I got more and more involved in it and you know interested in these kind of new age concepts and kind of magical thinking I guess of you know or reading auras and Doing these meditations to create wealth and prosperity or health and you know, whatever like this and these are all prescriptive type of meditations and what yogi bhajan called kriya's So at the time it attracted me because I I could see that I could do something in order to fulfill this like you said this emptiness or this kind of Desire for more spiritual life so I did these practices and I got more involved in and the What they call the ashram life up there and they had they had three houses up there that were all together on I think it was 33rd Street up there in Eugene, Oregon, and so I eventually moved in there and Started to participate in their Daily practices like this getting up early in the morning. They called it sadhana. Yeah, and Meditating meditating and doing the yoga and everything and so It was um, it was a real eye-opening experience for me and it it was fulfilling a Gap there that it was really missing for me. I was with other people too that were Interest in this common goal, you know Becoming more fulfilled spiritually and so then yogi bhajan came Why he came up there once a year? I think to do this white tantric yoga as he called it and so I met him that was the first time I met met him was up there. That was the late 70s. I'm not sure I think it was about 70 7 or 78 something like that and I think Pamela Pamela Dyson was there too as I recall and she gave a little talk about how They did a meditation special meditation when a when a Woman reached a hundred and twenty a day of the day of pregnancy and that really impressed me I thought, you know, here's a group here's the group of people that were really interested in spiritual growth and that That cared about others and things like that. So so, um, you know, I got more and more involved I I said investigating and researching about the Sikh religion which these people call themselves Sikhs that were that are up there in Eugene Oregon and Started eventually wearing a turban and not cutting my hair, which are articles of the Sikh faith like that and so as time went on I I Became more interested I I would say in the Sikh Part of this group, you know, the three HL or whatever you want to call it Three HL or Yogi buttons you can lean yoga group and they call themselves All kinds of things anyway, so then I I Moved down to Los Angeles where this was kind of the headquarters of where Yogi Bajan was was and I because I did want to Be closer to where things were happening And in the group and I wanted I was really at this point quite involved with Like I said getting up early in the morning and my friends Were pretty much totally all the people in three HL and in the group there And I also wanted to be closer to what where Yogi Bajan was because he was the You know leader of the group and I wanted to find out more about him and be closer to him What are you doing? So I have a question for you about this as well when you talk about the sadhana because that's big guys I pulled the book down and pulled the yoga sutras of baton Jaleen Which is the basis of all traditional yoga study and the second pota is called the sadhana pota Which means devotion now in Kundalini yoga traditionally Do you guys practice there in Brahma, Mortha like in the early morning hours? Is that traditional for especially in an ashram situation where you up at Brahma, Mortha or are no Yeah, this is this is one of the basic teachings of Yogi Bajan is to get up early in the morning and do this what he called it the Aquarian Sadhana like that He's like the age of Aquarius. He's yeah. Yeah, he's trying to play on these Very much of a businessman and knew what what would appeal to these young young people who are interested in new age concepts like astrology and you know aquarium concepts and you know, you all remember the that the famous Production hair. Yeah, okay, we're you know, it's he just tried to really Build on on that on those concepts that were developed from the new age concepts in the 60s and things like that so so anyway, I I think that It's important to realize that when I was around him and the other people like this, it was a big influence and He basically told us everything to do From when to have sex to when to have you know When to eat certain things or what whatever to do, you know, we'd go to him to to find out What we should do in life and and that's what I did eventually is I went to him and I asked him You know what I should do. I had a real interest in doing counseling I'd had this got the certification and neuro linguistic programming, which is sort of a counseling. Yes and So I told him I said I want to be a counselor when I you know Help people, you know without he wouldn't hear anything about that He sent me over to the the boiler room where we did toner where they did toner sales and it was a real Eye-opener for me now now I had been involved in sales pretty much all my life. I up with father who? sold Mobile homes and cars and all kinds of things. So I from the age of 15 very early on I was Quite involved with sales. So it wasn't a new thing to me but you know, it was really pretty shocking and Disturbing I guess you'd say about how Yogi budget and allowed This it was a fraud basically we tell people that we give us use fake names first of all Which is not a huge deal, but then we tell people we were their normal suppliers or that you know, we were Sending them their normal supply and things like that and then later I found out too that these owners of the company this Hari Jeevan Who was kind of like? Yogi buttons right-hand man now now there was there was two Hari Jeevan's there is still confusing There's there's this Hari Jeevan who I call the gem Guy who who sold gems In a way that was fraudulent and he seldom to older people and things like that and he was eventually Taken down by the Federal Trade Commission in charge with in it what they called a field of schemes and There's another Hari Jeevan who I also worked with in this toner boiler room operation And he's dubbed the toner bandit, and he spent 18 months in federal prison I think Yeah, they both did they both did that's right Yeah, oh, yeah, right so so Yogi budget was interested in making money alright I mean that was his bottom line. He sent me over there to do this when I was really I was really interested in doing counseling and doing and helping people along that kind of path But he wouldn't have anything to do with it sent me over there to work with these You know these crux basically and and Yogi budget enabled all of that he'd come over and tell us Oh, there's no there's no karma on the phone. Don't worry about it Because we heard that quote when my boyfriend first watch your video and we say that all the time no karma on the phone because it was Crap like and I want to like it's at what was there ever a point in your journey where I mean looking back now Hindsight's always 2020 the amount of control that he had over your life Was there ever a point for you or any of your friends where you thought? This isn't right, or were you just so excited to have a community of like-minded people like what? What cuz cuz like I told you guys in the beginning like my teacher is never ever like told us what jobs to do has never told us like who to marry Never Done anything like that doesn't you know we study the dosha system when it comes to food But other than that they don't tell you what to eat like it is totally you are self-governing, you know Yeah, was was there looking so I wanted to point that out to you guys because what he's saying yet for me That's like red flags going off in my head, but but hindsight is always 2020 and the more we learn The the better we could spot these things was there anybody that ever like or did you ever think at some point like this feels weird or Was there ever a good gut instinct that you diminished or something in this process or? well, I was very young then and in my early 20s and So I guess the only excuse I have is that I was young and just really in you know Verily gullible or naive I guess you'd say and I had read and I and I had seen shows Kung Fu if you remember that how they submit themselves to the master and and it's a it's a it's an entire culture of Being humble towards the master and we looked at Yogi Bajan as the master. He was the he was the Yeah, he was the guru who came from India he had the inside knowledge he had the inside track to God and and you know almost looked at him as as a godlike figure in a way and like I said we were kind of we were Programmed if you were we were sensitized to all of this because they're in the 70s in the 60s, too there was there was this influx of The culture around you know serving master serving a guru and there was also Oh, yeah, oh autobiography of a Yogi Talked in the same way. So there was precedent for that and and so you were you know if you wanted to follow that if you wanted to be Serviceful you wanted to have the darshan of the of the guru, you know the master then you followed that path of being a humble student like that and so we would always talk to Yogi Bajan's feet and We would we would do anything he said, you know, basically So I'll explain that to my I thought say my students my viewers watching touching the feet in India as a sign of respect Yeah, a lot of my teacher who is the param guru the Guruji our Guruji passed away in 2009 And he still did not there was still like no my boyfriend was a student of his and there was no sense of like Controlling you outside of the shawl at all. So but but people would touch Guruji's feet But my teacher the param guru people will try and he will stop them from doing that So I wanted to explain that to you who are watching you'll also see in India You'll see like people touching their grandparents feet So it's an ultimate sign of respect in India to touch someone's feet. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, sure Definitely, definitely the thing about Yogi Bajan was that he I think he really liked this control He liked this idea that he had power over people and He really carried it to the extreme he wore Exorbitant really garish jewelry and and these expensive robes. So he he really took off on this whole idea of being a Master and being somebody who was wealthy and powerful and I Think he really got sucked into all of this Maya if you will yeah like that and you know if you look back at his background you can see that he came from a Place where he was he was interested in gaining this power and money and I think he really Took advantage of his position Like that and can we can we talk a little bit because I know people have been a little bit confused by this I've had some people ask me for so Yogi Bajan was born in the area of Indian India in 1929 that is now a part of Pakistan and I was saying on my show like I did an intro to this that released this morning to people would have kind of a Background information even for me like when I got my first 10-year visa to India I had to go through like interrogation from the Indian government about if I had any ties to pack Like this is this was a very serious It still is a very serious issue and with India and Pakistan and I said I laughed about it because I'm like look at me I'm a blonde hair blue. I chick whose last name was Watson. I don't know anyone in Pakistan You know, but it's very it's very serious and I was saying and so they were he was displaced with his family like into New Delhi When the partisan happened in like night He was young like 18 right and I was saying like it's not lost on me that Regardless of whether Bajan who is no longer alive was a narcissist or a psychopath or whatever we can only speculate about that Obviously that must have been very traumatic for him to have to go through that at a young age Do you think any of that displacement? Kind of fed into the personality that he would create We know yeah, I'm sure it did. I mean we're all a product of our environments and our you know, how we The situations that were in things like that I'm sure it was I think what he developed was a strategy for Getting out of the poverty and the and the the extreme circumstances that he was in and I think he went the path down to being as a Pathological liar and he just developed this this strategy if you will or Characteristics of Being just doing whatever it took to get what he needed or wanted and I know that he he lied about certain things with that Coming from Pakistan to India there was a circumstance where he said that He went to the front of the there was a line of people that were trying to escape from Pakistan and he went and led the people away and That's not true according to his father, you know that that first-hand account That was given by his father said that he he was in the back and he was he was You know trying to get out, you know with his mother some something along the line But whatever Bajan told these stories many times about how he was so heroic and led this group of people out of Pakistan And his father's does not true so, you know, he just made up many many things and So it just carried on throughout his life. He was not a holy man from India was he like that's one of the biggest lies He was just a customs worker. He was not Yeah, he was a customs officer. Yeah, and and so and customs officers there are known for taking bribes and Box she's baby. Yes Really really corrupt. Yeah, and so Bajan saw an opportunity here in the United States where there was young gullible Westerners who were looking for something spiritual and he picked up. I think he picked up on this Idea of teaching yoga. He called it something unique. He was an excellent marketer. There's no question about it He was able to pick up on These Clickbait if you well, you know this kind of thing that would would would really Attract young people like myself and others who are looking for something That would be magical and it would be quick to achieve this this spiritual Goal and he maximized he did just Maximized on it and So He was very like I said, he was just very clever very business-like, you know about doing all this And he put all the trappings of this Being a Master or you know powerful person So that we could see all this and everything He almost created a character that was really what they call spiritual manipulation But he created a character to like manipulate people into You often think to people that try to exude that much control over others Maybe it's because they don't feel control within themselves I don't know, but I want to get that across to you guys that he created his whole story I want to make it very clear too before we get to the Kundalini yoga to people watching right now Kundalini and Kundalini yoga are two different things. I want to make that very clear. Kundalini is an aspect in all yoga It's it's literally the rising of an elixir up the spine of shesumnits in the base of the pelvic region The way we teach it in Ashtanga yoga is it's through the creating of shapes in the body through over many many years of work Also working on yourself like the counts. It's it's interesting to me. You want it to be a counselor. I'm a huge I'm a huge for supporter of talk therapy Yoga is great, but have you tried talk therapy like that to really help you work through your own Maya or illusion your own bond bondage to what your blind spots and so I want to make that very clear you guys We talked about Kundalini yoga. We're talking about a system created by Yogi Bajan not Kundalini itself All right Yeah, and and Yogi Bajan made up this idea of Kundalini yoga There there is this idea of Kundalini yoga before but it's not it wasn't presented that way as a as a you know a separate thing and he presented it as being a secret You know thousand year thousands of year old tradition and things like that It's just not he he made all this up to make it sound, you know exciting and exotic and and something that would be Transforming and all this and he even said, you know, oh in 40 days You'll transform your life and you'll be liberated or something like that There are people have been practicing this Kundalini yoga for 50 years or something and they're there nothing has come of it So, you know, it's just I I Practiced one Kriya that he said where you could see auras, you know after you practice this or this this Kriya and I never saw or as I practice it for I know 20 years at least every single day, you know So, um, you know, I I've I've tried to try this stuff and it just doesn't work That's the bottom line in my opinion. Now I want to say you guys. Yeah, I've had people say, oh, but he had secret teachings No, it is my opinion too. It's all it's all made up because let me let me tell you guys The school I go to in India where required to learn Sanskrit. I have spent years studying Sanskrit under three different Sanskrit professors The reason being is so that I can read all the text myself and also be able to chant and I'm telling you guys There's really no like even even if you look at the yoga sutra So even if you take something as basic, which is only the one book just this is just one book in years tons of different scripts on yoga But this is kind of the main Mac Mac daddy of Patan Jaleen's Sutras we always tell students the first two padas are first taught to students because it's very basic It's working with the body. It's working with your mind This last two padas are only taught to the student after 10 to 15 years of practice And that gets into the cities are like you're talking like seeing auras being but with that being said Every if you order the yoga sutras of Patan Jaleen It comes with all four padas. So there's no see you can read it if you want It's just no one's gonna really teach you through it until you have more experience within your own body So that's what I want to be clear to you guys is like a lot of this information Can be found if you actually take the time and do diligence to study it And so but how a luring is that to have this this larger than life character come in and say I have the secrets I have and Kundalini. We know another term for that is Christ consciousness It's this idea of total, you know, enlightenment of totally, you know We're moving yourself above the the hamster wheel of karma and samskaras And so that that's appealing if I I if I had run across Yogi Bajon in the late 70s I probably would have fallen for it too because that's what I'm looking for as well And so I wanted to make that very clear to you guys because yeah, I don't He made a from what I understand. I know I told you this on the the Fongar song I I've seen some yo some Kundalini classes and I'm like what the fuck is this and I've gone to look through all these different scriptures I'm like he he's making this up like this is not found in any in any so can you talk through like what what a typical Kundalini class that Yogi Bajon would teach what would that are be taught even now through 3h o which by the way 3h o the website reminds me a lot of Scientology just you guys are aware There's a lot of commonalities between the bridge and Scientology and 3h o so um, so and I know you Well, I'll tell you yeah, I some funny Stories I would go to the Yogi Bajons classes every in Los Angeles was pretty much every night He would teach and then he started teaching yoga in the park and things like this I often wondered I said does he go back and and Get you know some kind of Information from the cosmos or something or from from his guru or something You know because he makes he had all these different kriyas every single day and different Meditations and different mudras and all these things like that. I thought how does he do that? You know and I you know it and he would he would just he would just talk and kind of do this psycho babble thing And I to be honest. I'd fall asleep a lot of the times in these lectures and And then wake up and then people would ask later. What did he talk about? He says oh, we talked about really enlightening things or something You know I say something like that But often like I said I often wondered how he came up with all of these different things if he was chant That was the word I need what he was channeling this from some, you know greater source and everything But I learned later that there's like 10,000 of these Yogi Bajons in India You know when I went when I went there and and they're on every street corner. They call them babas and They are no they have no dearth of Just get this psycho babbles it just you know exudes from this You know they just and and they just they can just talk endlessly about stuff And I because I always thought about I always thought well How can you just come up with all this stuff on Saint spontaneously like this and things like that? Well, I'm thinking back on it. It's not really that hard No, but you just you just to just take things grab them, you know, and whatever comes to your head, you know Basically like that. So you are they are and you even when you go to India guys You have to look for you have to do your research because they especially they see oh, I mean I stick out like a sore thumb in India. They're like, oh, you come you come madam. You come and like no No, I teach a reward you about you know follow the lineages There you know, so you have to be very very careful, but yeah, you're right It's it's there there on every corner in India So yeah, yeah, and they all have the answers to and it's it's I know it's kind of kind of part of the culture That where they'll say you must do this. This is what you must do You know in order to solve this problem or even this is or to go you must go with here You must do this, you know things like that. It's a much different way than Westerners Talk about or do do things You know here would discuss things if you if you have something, you know You want to do in your life or something you say, oh, you know, what is it? You're interested in like this, you know, but but they're in India. It's kind of more like, okay This is much you must do. Okay. Go do this, you know, like the very very You know, they have the answer or something to what you know do and that's the kind of the the Characteristics Yogi Vajran exhibited, you know, and he came to the West he saw these very gullible Westerners, you know, and he just told them what to do and and they just one did it, you know, it was no there was no Discussion or talk back or anything and if anybody ever did try to Try to discuss things with the Yogi Vajran to talk back. He wouldn't have anything of it he was very very How do you call it? Self-centered or narcissistic if you want to say, you know in his in his Command he would just direct or command people to do things. There was no no discussion about any That is I know in India too like when the in the 60s and 70s when some I always say the white hippies Came to India and found Guruji like for the Ashutosh lineage That was something I learned because in India, it's not considered appropriate to question the Guru Yeah, but in the world we do that actually is a sign of respect to ask questions and Guruji when he was very apparently He was very confused by that at first, but However, when he realized that that was part of the Westerners culture He adapted and he started to create conferences and my teacher to this day has conferences where people can ask questions And so they did they did not see it as I mean it stressed them out at first But they they adapted to their students coming to the Western demands and so that's interesting So here you have Yogi Vajran who's in the Western world Yeah, uses to adapt but over in India the teachers are adapting to the Western custom of a question asking and so Yeah, but I would say probably because he didn't have the answers Yeah Yeah, I I think he he was just so controlling of everything and I Think that he we wanted this control to mold people the sculpture them the way he wanted them to be and You know, I just this thought just came to me you talked about how there was no internet back in the 60s 70s and even 80s and Yogi Vajran passed away and Was it 2004 the internet was just in its infancy them? I think he he realized that there was just no no way he could survive with you know the information Age With everybody seeing things on the internet and I think it's one of the reason he checked out That's just a personal belief But he died he had some legal issues didn't he he was already facing is that correct? He was already facing some legal issues with I don't know if it was business related or people had come out about rape allegations I don't know what it was, but I had heard somewhere that there were some legal issues He was already starting to face. He died at like 75. Correct. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't that old and If he would have if he would have taken proper care of himself He could have lived much longer, but he just refused. I he he wouldn't walk He just ate junk food all the time that he just he was obese. He had Hard problem diabetes and it was just endless, you know Yoga teacher like Yeah, it's just really I'll see more on yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly Yeah, so so He did have this lawsuit that Pamela she was known as Premka Karthen Brought against him in 1986 and I was around them. I was yeah. Yeah, she wrote the book then and I talked about her lawsuit in my book which I published in 2012 and My personal experience with that situation was that Yogi Bajan Refused to give his deposition. In fact, I talked to the attorney that represented Pamela in that case and Kate felt also who's another plaintiff in that case and the attorney Peter Gregorius. That's his name. He's back in Pittsburgh He said that Yogi Bajan refused to give his deposition six times The judge ordered him to take to give his deposition, but every time he would have the his so-called Colsa doctors There were part of his group and his students give excuses that he had our problems or whatever, you know but I was on guard duty all of that time and We would go to Lascala every day in Beverly Hills We would go shopping every single day and Yogi Bajan could have easily given his deposition he just didn't want to as Peter said, you know be under the bright lights and have to give his deposition he refused and So in my mind those Deniers of this abuse they say oh Yogi Bajan doesn't have a say he doesn't he he's not around to answer these allegations well, he had his opportunity back then and and Six different times he could have he could have given his deposition and given his side of the story about all of these abuses and everything but who refused he wouldn't but So in my mind he had his opportunity to give his side of the story on that and There is just I mean in the sad thing about Premka's book and of course. She's our Pamela's book She's not here to to say herself But when I was reading this I felt so much pain for her because she didn't actually want a sexual relationship with him That's obvious in the book that she but he Manipulated it. I get was her karma or something like he gave some story to her to manipulate her into that situation Yeah, I noticed you with her book and all that because I want to bring that up because you did guard but if you weren't just a student of Bajan you were like in the inner circle of This group sleep deprivation from Pamela's book. It seems like there was a lot of sleep deprivation, especially with her Which is a huge huge warning sign for cult behavior as well because obviously if you're not getting enough sleep You're your cognitive abilities are waning. Did you ever sleep deprivation? Well, it's interesting you should talk about that. I did this guard duty there where yogi Bajan resided most of the time or good part of the time at 1620 Proust Road, so there was the the Godwara or where they kept the city Guru Granthab up front and then I did the What was called the sabid are answering the phones and greeting people when they would come to the front It's a very small little place it's kind of a real hole in the wall there and then yogi Bajan would have his Residents where he spent most of his time behind just behind the wall there on that place and then he there was a converted garage in the back to where he Would sleep sometimes and and things like that. So anyway, I was on I was on this guard duty or sabid are 24-7 a lot of times and so I would sleep there. I would I was single there at the time When I was doing that I was back about 1980 two or so in 1981 and so yogi Bajan would come out like maybe 1 a.m. In the morning and He would want to ride someplace and he would come out in his kacharas Which are the undergarments seek undergarments and then have a like a brown shawl wrapped around and it's you might find pictures of him Like that and he would come out maybe 1 a.m. In the morning just by himself and he would ask me to to take him up to What they called the estate now, I found out later and I didn't really fully realize at the time But but Pamela of pramka at the time she had her she had a room up there a converted You know Garage room up there at the at the estate and so she lived up there with many of the other secretaries who lived up there so so I know maybe it's kind of circumstantial evidence, but I Would take him up there in the middle of the night nobody else around and You know according I think in in Pamela's book. She talks about how yogi Bajan would rendezvous with with her Yeah, and yeah, so and like you said this was this was unwanted sex and he wasn't controlling people To get what he wanted and things like that and you just have to understand that he was the master And if he said that to have sex with it with him and that that he was he was helping you with your aura You know protecting your aura that would be probably an excuse things like that Look, and that's what Keith Ranieri did as well next year, but that's in her book as well like they manipulated and yeah Yeah, exactly. We it was common knowledge that yogi Bajan spent the night with one secretary and Time now he had many many like these close so-called secretaries as he called them and He would he would say that Or we would get I know it's kind of hearsay But it was like I said common knowledge that he would he would spend the night with these secretaries in his room And that he was either protecting their aura like like Like I was saying and then or that he was protecting their aura that he was helping them You know just different things like that. Anyway, so so there was pretty common knowledge that was going on and I know his wife this inter G car. She was aware of it I've talked to people that that know her personally and she would she would say that Oh who is he spending tonight tonight, you know this inter G car we called her BBG and that was his wife So They'd arranged marriage Yes, I'm sure it was yeah, I'm sure it was an arranged marriage although I still haven't found out exactly how it happened It's important. I found out later just how the families interact and what now his surname Yogi Bajan surname is putty which is more Hindu it's used by a lot of Hindus and So it's interesting how he would end up with this inter G car and I'm just I'm not recalling her surname, but it wasn't it wasn't a putty and so I'm not sure how that all happened anyway, it's kind of kind of a more of a Interesting thing if you're researching and studying just how Yogi Bajan became how it was and everything and how inter G car Got involved with that family But these are all things that that will create who Yogi Bajan was and what was what his Motivations were and all these type of things like that because she obviously was aware of these abuses she was aware of these actual encounters Yogi Bajan was having and She didn't say anything he went along with it, you know now In in you're probably aware in Indian society It's very difficult especially for women of her Generation to actually speak out about you know what their husbands are doing But Yeah, yeah, and in many ways I would say but she has some culpability I think I talked to her, you know, I talked to her in 2010 was the last time I talked to her and She was trying to get me to stop publicizing about these this corruption of the Yogi Bajan and and the The truth basically she didn't want the truth to come out and that article had just come out the day I talked to her actually was at the Albuquerque, Guaduara here in New Mexico and The article in the Eugene register guard just come out Yogi's legacy in question and So this was kind of the beginning of All of these revelations that were coming out it took another ten years for Pamela to write her book and to come out with some of these things and then other people that come forward I guess they felt they felt the courage to be able to come forward and I again as I said at the beginning of the class I really have to commend them for coming out and and I also want to extend my Heartfeit felt feelings towards those that just aren't coming out because there are there are hundred There are probably hundreds hundreds of women that were abused by Yogi Bajan and sexually attacked You know, we don't even know the the full extent of it. Like I said, I've talked to many of them and things like that But I really I am I'm very angry at those people that are these deniers Horrified I looked at some of the videos of Prenka's book of women of women that are I mean, but that's that shows you the level of indoctrination and gas lighting and the cognitive dissidents and Let's I want to ask you go like I've heard you say I believe because of what I've seen that there's a lot of like hyperventilation that's happening in these classes and I hope you have videos where you guys should totally check his channel out because he's got so Many great videos. I've been I've been watching your channel for a while now Where there the class itself is almost that spiritual manipulation again where Bajan even though he made this stuff up. He was smart enough to figure out It's almost like the hyperventilation of the fire breath that you guys call it Where the oxygen is not gonna it's gonna the way the body's receiving oxygen is not gonna put you it's in the gong playing There's there's specific things he was doing to put you into a place where you are susceptible To being persuaded even it subconsciously and in traditional yoga We don't teach the fire breathing until you have been practicing for like ten years Because the body needs to be very physically fit to be because of the lack of oxygen so somebody's walking in off the street and doing this it can cause some some Significant concerning issues with the cognitive ability with the amount of oxygen getting to the brain I'll let you talk about that because I know you've spoken about this before and I just think this is really important information For the viewers to understand Yeah, so that's very good point about this breath of fire is yogi Bajan would call it it puts you in a state where you're varies spaced out if you will and very Vulnerable space where you're Susceptible to these commands now he would also in addition he'd have us lay out What was it called laying on your back and just after you do these really heavy? breath of fire exercises and you'd be completely just zoned out if you will and Play he would play the gong and that would be further. You know just Space you out and then he would have these these subtle commands not so subtle commands really but This Kind of a theric sounding voice in the background you will do this. Well, it's just like hypnosis. Yeah Yeah, like yeah, put you in a space where you're susceptible to all of these Commands like that so yogi Bajan was very very Manipulative and clever, you know being customs officer you have got to be able to be able to read people You've got to be able to manipulate a situation, you know like so it Coast underst it understand what what he was doing and I learned when I took this neuro linguistic programming and became certified with it I don't know if you're familiar with this practice. It's the original the original founders I took the classes from it Santa Cruz University of Santa Cruz there that was about 1980 Grinder and Bandler and it's a super manipulative type of Practice I I no longer really actively use it because I saw I witnessed them hypnotize people You know had them do all kinds of crazy stuff And it just just not though. I just don't think that's very Conscious way to treat people really But it goes to show you yogi Bajan knew about this NLP in fact There are several people in our group that got certified like myself and he did not want people to do use this stuff Because he was using it That's the irony of it Exactly Tax the sacred yoga tax. It's from NLP. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean it's Salesman had used it for years. My dad used it in a way You know, you you just naturally start to you develop rapport with people you start to anchor Situation grand Grinder and Bandler basically just labeled it different things, but it had been used for centuries You know millenia to be able to manipulate people and develop rapport with them and and and to have them do what you want them to do Basically, and that's what yogi Bajan was doing. He was he was molding and sculpting these people exactly the way he wanted them to be and I Think if you look at yogi Bajan's history, you'll see that he had this idea If you will our philosophy that is based in this Sheep Shakti kind of yeah, she's a Shakti kind of Philosophy if you will or ideology and it's it's completely Abhorrent to what the Sikh values and principles are but yogi Bajan because his mother was Hindu and I'm not putting down Hindus Okay, by any means but hint yogi Bajan was exposed to the she's Shakti kind of Manipulation if you will or kind of getting into this cult. It's a kind of a cult, you know a she's Shakti cult if you will and So I think his good angle was to get us into that too and get us, you know part of his She's Shakti cult that you know for lack of a better word and he was a leader that now And I think he believed that was he was probably some kind of reincarnation of some kind of you know Sheba or I was gonna ask you that because it's fascinating and in this break down I felt just a huge need to do these cults and I look at people like Elrana Hubbard, and I'm only speculating guys I don't I'm like, I think he actually believes a shit But then I look at it for near a and I'm like that yeah playing everyone, you know So it's like I was gonna ask you did he start to believe his own stuff You know did he start to really? Oh We'll never know we'll never know for sure, you know to get into his mind The only reason I'm bringing it up is because you know what happened the reality of what happened here was extreme manipulation of people and and deceiving them Pathological lies all of these things just heaped on things like that Fraud all it just it was just endemic into the organization and then all of his teachings like this And and people are literally I think even those people as coke deniers and those people who support Yogi Bajan I think they're almost like under some kind of hypnotic spell, you know still, you know from what Yogi Bajan was doing And and that was his goal. I think to do that now whether he Yeah, whether he believed he was an incarnation of Shiva or you know some kind of you know Reincarnation of some you know Yogi or something. We'll never know you know never know for sure But he sure acted like he was had some grand plan in mind that he was going to you know create Twist twist seek religion and twist all of these different Practices of yoga and and use it for his own means and the fact is he was a very Charismatic and powerful person in many ways and he put he almost pulled this off And he still they still got a lot of followers. Yeah, so so he's he's um, he's really You know pulled a big fast one, you know like that That's what I keep really. It's a big con job and and he you know any and he may have been successful It wasn't for Pamela and people That started to speak out about the abuses and things like that I think he really thought people were saying anything, you know about about it because he had such a hold on people He had such he would he would tell us that if you leave you'll be you'll be you know a prostitute You know in the street is it, you know Beggar, you know things like this, you know if you if you leave him, you know things like that You'll just end up to being nothing, you know You just go to hell, you know and be burned alive in the desert, you know things like that He would literally tell people that and you know to keep them aligned with him And either in order to keep them from saying anything about him, you know and he set this whole stage where he said, you know You know, he told his students and he would say that. Oh, they'll they'll be slandering me and they'll be you know Saying things against me. So he set the whole thing up, you know from exactly what is happening You know where people are telling the truth about him and then I was right look at the He was right right now all these slanders are you know talking up against him, you know, which he was right He knew the truth to yeah, I have two Questions final questions for you because I know we're coming up on an hour One is for the safety of the viewers watching right now with 3h. Oh, which once again, I've talked about this on my channel guys I I've gone through the 3h. Oh website it to me. It just screams cult It's a that is not what in traditional lineage what that what education looks like But I but I always ask for people to do their own research with teachers who are under the Kundalini umbrella Are they still teaching these dangerous? tactics as taught by Bajon As far as I know, I mean I look at that I look at the websites of these people and I get emails from them all the time because I'm in the mailing list because I won't see What they're up to they're still taking the same stuff all they're doing is just taking maybe Yogi budget name off of it And some aren't even doing that. Yeah, they're just saying these are all just lies about you know, Yogi budget and creating all this fraudulent Kundalini yoga or you know, all these abuses and and sexual attacks. It's just all lies Literally, they just say they just completely deny it, you know, they say hundreds of people are lying about all this It would be really funny if it wasn't, you know, true It's so sad and like I said earlier it makes me very very angry And I want to just interject here real quick because people should realize that I'm still wearing a Turban or is that we call it in the Sikh religion to star. I've remained a Sikh And I don't follow any of the these teachings of Yogi budget anymore But I've remained a Sikh and I've saw and I've seen now what the True conduct and principles are the Sikh religion, which is a completely different thing than what Yogi budget taught Actually, I wanted to bring you one for a follow-up episode I'm springing this off to our recording because I'm gonna see what questions we have from people But also I would love for you because I did I told you on the phone I did a really deep dive myself into Sikhism because I knew I knew there were some issues between the yoga practice and Sikhism I knew that there was already a discrepancy there between the two, but I do nothing about Sikhism So I did a deep dive into it. It's actually it's a lot of what I believe anyway, just as a human being Just as I agree with a lot of what Sikhism is and so I'm gonna ask and guys So would you be willing to come back for a part two and to really talk about Sikhism and all that kind of stuff And also answer anybody's questions in the audience Awesome final question before this might be a big question What did you wake up? What was the moment where you were like? Oh my god, this is bullshit bullshit. I have to get out It was a slow wakening I started to realize Yogi budget was lying about certain things. He tried to Get my house He wanted to buy it and He wanted it for a pittance This really Stuck me as being Not conscious I mean and I and I saw that he was just loving a luxurious lifestyle and and just carrying on We knew he was sleeping in the same room with these women and I just you know, I started reading about other Sikh saints and People who were Respected Sikhs and and they just don't do this You know, you know, you just you with your wife and you don't hang out and sleep in the same room with the other women It's just not done and you're not you're not Begging and and trying to get More and more luxurious lifestyle and things like this. So anyway, it was a slow development We had I had several feeling I was him about business deals. He he just wouldn't accept any kind of professional Advice I was a real estate agent and he asked me about something and I told him about You know some aspect some legal aspect of what he was doing and he said don't try to teach me, you know It's like that. I mean, you know, the guy was just completely Unapproachable, you know as far as you know, trying to trying to reason with him about anything You know to do with that and and I and I started reading some of his lectures back from the you know early days and things like that and he was just he was so Belligerent and so arrogant about what he was trying to do and he would I just bad melt people in you know Talk about slander. He was the epitome of you know, slandering people Call people that were respected seek column dogs and bitches and you know, it's just awful You know just some of this stuff, you know that he was do it He was and his profanity was just outrageous, you know He would say the F were just like every other word about things and just you know It's just not the way a spiritual person acts, you know, my teacher never curses Yeah, yeah, yeah, so so these were all kind of indications that I was starting to see that he was just not what he was billed as and So I stopped going to the lectures that was probably You know five years or so before he died I moved here to Espanola and he would come here sometimes and I just I stopped going to the lectures and and You know, I just you know not going To kind of I'd go to the seek events to the good war and things like that But I didn't really I didn't really seek out his advice or anything. I was there when he died I went over there. I didn't go in to see his body or anything That was over here at the ranch of the dumb things like that and I was just sort of observing how other people were reacting and You know, we'll say this probably for another time But again, I'm very angry at these people. I do think that they have a choice They don't have to go along with this Deception of yogi, but you know, yogi Bajan, they do have a choice and You know, I'm I'm gonna make sure that they're aware of how other people Feel about the situation and about all these people that were abused. That's one of my goals here I've been protesting outside in front of the yogi Bajan highway. I've got this thing called a budge buster bus I love it in my intro video. I love it because it's great What you're doing and you coming from this seek perception perception me coming from the yoga perspective like I'm gonna tell you guys again Who are watching if something doesn't feel right in a yoga class, please listen to your gut Unfortunately, this problem exists, you know, I mean, I know our stronger teachers who go and get authorized in there They run their yoga studios like Colts No person should be your teacher is just your teacher. That's all they are They're your teacher. They should not have any part of your personal life Unless you bring them a question like my teacher is great in India If we have a question about our personal life and we have a private me a schedule a private meeting with him He never tells us what to do. It actually frustrated me at one point because all he did all who do is speak in metaphors And then refer you to yoga scripture and you but you he's giving you he doesn't want that power No one should tell you who you can marry who you can sleep with What you can eat. I just want people to be very very aware I want people watching to be very aware of what spiritual manipulation looks like. I'm in a mice I I had a Kundalini teacher actually attack me and a mice physically assault me It ain't my sore classroom, which is how we teach us on the yoga isn't a Room called my sore where we're working individually with students. It's not led We're working individually and I was working doing my job as an ashtanga teacher working with the student and this woman Who was a Kundalini teacher a follower of Vajran here in Atlanta? She had been coming to the mice or classes and she physically assaulted me in the middle of the class because I was teaching Ashtanga yoga, which is what the class is designed around isn't ashtanga yoga and I I some and that's when I found your channel actually because I knew I always knew there was something very strange about Kundalini I always knew that there was something off about it And when that happened that's when I started investigating more and I never filed charges because I felt bad for this woman because I thought oh my god This woman's brain is so scrambled that she's resorting to this violence Just because she's in a room where actual yoga is being taught and it's contradicting whatever she's learned from the Yogi Vajran is so she physically assaults of the teacher And so that's where I found your channel and I will tell you a garcant for me in that moment Your channel was very healing for me Because I realized that it wasn't what had happened wasn't necessarily about me It was something that she had been doing for years and years and years that had cultivated They say in cults you have two personalities You have your cult personality and your real personality and over time the cult personality starts to take over And and so and I know I say this for I know a lot of people that are coming out next young Scientology all so many cults out there They you know, it's very healing for people to hear you guys's story and even for people who've never even planned ever practicing yoga Just to hear your survival stories to hear your hindsight on what was going on It's healing because people can go back in their own lives and say oh my god I was with a narcissist and this is how I felt to and I know I'm not crazy now I know that my gut was trying to tell me something so I thank you or saw it because I know it's it's not easy I mean Mark Vicente was saying that it's not easy being a whistleblower. Yeah, I know you get a lot of shit from the This is rude, but I know people who call the Kundalini's, you know, you know, you get you get a lot of shit from them and and And so I know it's I know they say that I know it could be very scary when you're up against such smear campaigns and such But courage is not it's not being without fear, but it's looking fear in the face and doing it anyway And so I thank you for being a beacon of light in humanity and I love I think I told you this on the phone I love that you never gave up your faith in God because of this But this did not turn you away because Yogi Bajon is not God and we can talk more about that in the next episode about the Meditating to his pictures and the fingernails because that is fucking creepy We don't do that no yoga. We don't meditate on our gurus and real yoga. The gurus is the teacher. We meditate on God That's it So so we can get more into that next week our next time I'll wait and see the questions that we can schedule something and I thank you so much and I'm glad that you're out I think that God has, you know God is so mysterious, you know, God works in such mysterious ways and I do think that God puts people in situations Not for the benefit of the situations just so they can help heal The situation after the situation is unveiled and I see that with a lot of big whistleblowers that they are part of They are part of the healing process and they wouldn't have that power to be part of that healing process That they had not gone through it themselves. Yeah, it's an experience that yes We need to go through God puts us in the situations for reasons like that Just want to add real quick that when you talk about following a teacher Be careful of a human teacher. This is the this is the bottom line be very very careful because Every human has flaws and you shouldn't treat them like a guru like that That's why I eventually found that in the city Guru Granth Sahib, which is our Guru on the Sikh religion and it's it's written texts from all different saints and sages throughout history and by by attaching yourself to That guru to a guru that is formless and that doesn't have a human form like that then you you can really Maximize your your own, you know your own philosophy or your own Your own being your own self-confidence or rather through that through that guru that spiritual guru like that But human forms like you said before it's really a it's really a crapshoot Yeah, and you shouldn't you shouldn't just give yourself and I found that you know in my experience with Yogi Bhajan you can't just give yourself wholly to a human form like that. It just doesn't work like that and So but anyway, but don't don't don't give up on seeking out that Spiritual guru if you will okay like that because in my life experience I know I have made some really bad decisions if I just go with my own ego and my own thinking like that So don't think that you can just just rely on your own mind Okay, just for forever all your decisions you need that guru, but it has to be It has to be a External or spiritual a spiritual guru like that not a human form guru that absolutely I will say I'm glad you said that I will say that is why we that's another reason why the teacher the good teachers Will put boundaries up. It's not it's because as good teachers We know we're flawed and we want our flaws to rub up rub off on our students We know I know where my weaknesses are and I don't want that influencing my students And so that's why my teachers the same way my teacher does not want even though He's the parm guru that really means nothing actually I look at my teacher And I would never want to be him in a million years because of the this intense, you know work He does and I just I'm so glad you brought no no We talked we in those endless channel, too We go through a lot of the missing books of the Bible which are amazing because they there there's so much truth there and yes Shua who people call Jesus yes Shua, you know the word savior It does it means someone who has saved themselves it means someone who has does not have to incarnate again And so you and that's a guru if you look at guru. It's it's turning darkness to light You are the one that through that relationship with God through that relationship with your own breaking through your own It says in the yoga sutras yoga to 15 erotica getting rid of the bondage of your own ego your fault sense of self with Having that connection to God That's what turns the darkness to light not a human being Not a human being not a relationship not a teacher not a job. It's all about you And so don't let that involve that it also involves not relying on your own mind. Yeah, okay Your mind is like a monkey, okay If you just follow your own mind, you're gonna get big It's so funny and she saw me to teach Ananda's comment here on the yoga sutras because the second teacher is yoga It's a routine order how which basically is like yoga is getting rid of like don't listen to your mind Like yoga is like shut the mind off and in the Shri Swami to teach Ananda's commentary He's like if you understand this you don't eat the rest of the So yes, oh monkey mind. Yes, so yeah, it's controlling that it's controlling that monkey Okay, so you have to rely on a guru But not the physical physical, you know like physical gurus, you know, you want to rely on a guru That's beyond that's let's close to God. Okay, you know that that's spiritual sense. That's the only way I can I can describe it You know, like I said in the Sikh religion, we have the city Guru Granthap and by reading that By reading and absorbing that that Grbani as we call it the Guru's Bonnie. All right, then then we then we really Are able to connect with that that inner Guru or that inner or you know, God consciousness like that You know like that so you become more you become more than just yourself That become more than just your mind and that is and I will say that is guys We've said this on my channel before Genesis 1 3 of the Bible says God said let there be light the original word The Hebrew word for light was divine spark And that divine spark is that part of you that is not Affiliated that's the part of you that is beyond it's the parusha. That's beyond the The mind it's beyond the fault sense of self and yeah And that yeah, it's and that's you just basically summed up the crux of yoga in a heart is like it the mind is like The mind is nothing but trouble like just the mind. It'll just let the mind control your mind We can't turn our mind off. There is a point to the mind the mind goes. Oh look cars coming I need to get out of the way. There is a point to that organ But when it gets out of hand it starts to contry as Guruji used to say yoga is mind controlling capacities Not mind not controlling you you controlling your mind You know so so yes, absolutely and that can be found guys that whole the whole I always say this the philosophy of yoga It can be found in so many things. It's so many different Teachings can help you if you don't yoga is not your thing You can find it in all sorts of different Practices when you really understand what your mind is doing and and so I think it's not it's also not Doing what you may want that feels good. Yes, you know, so so be careful That is a very big trap people they say. Oh, this doesn't feel good to me or this does this is not what I you know Want you know doesn't like that, but it's not many many times You know things that are good for you is not what what feels good Yeah, you know so so be careful of that and you know That's why I think it's really important to follow a code of conduct or some kind of Rahat or Idea that rules, you know of living that's why we have certain rules of living and good conduct in life. Okay, things like You know earning an honest living You know just basic principles like that you're treating people as you would want Yourself to be treated all these things like that Married being married and having sex within marriage and things like this These in my mind are all principles that we may not think especially when we were young that they that they feel good to us But they're they're the thing that it's kind of like that that guru in a sense They're the rules are contained in that guru that spiritual guru that higher consciousness guru if you will and and We don't want to necessarily follow necessarily what we like I said feels good to us Okay, because it feels good sometimes if you're if you're at a party and you're drinking alcohol or you're taking drugs I mean that may feel good at the time, but it's not good for you It's not gonna lead you to a spiritual life, you know things like that But to be careful about what you do that feels good in other words absolutely I agree because I'm laughing because my class is on Sunday. I always say well Yoga is not about being comfortable It's about being comfortable with being uncomfortable because that's as from DOS would say that's where it's interesting Where there's discomfort is where there's friction where there's friction There's there's something interesting there that you learn about yourself It's the the match analogy the match has everything in it It needs to light, but it can't light until it's struck against the the match block and that match that friction is What's gonna show? I mean I see that with you guys who are whistleblowers you went through so much discomfort when you left your colt and then all the sudden because you went through that you were able to like shine your light and Be that a bigger person because you're able to now you probably I look at people who come from Colts too They have so much empathy for people. They have so much compassion There's a deeper level of understanding their own humanity and their own spiritual nature and so so yeah I agree everything you're saying I agree 100% because that is that is You know that is what what shows you what you're really made up is when not when you're yeah, yeah And it also it also takes looking to people that we can use as mentors or people that we respect You know people have lived a spiritual life that have have followed the discipline who have followed these principles life And they've been successful. Okay, so we look at those type of people and we say oh that that worked Okay, that that was something that that made them to have a good life that they had a that a life that Brought others joy and things like this and then we looked at how they live their lives, you know like that I think the key is that you know You know we want to avoid obviously people like you budget who were horrible examples and look to those that were good examples Absolutely 100% 100% well guys once again I'm so I can't wait to have you back on Gerson again I'm gonna put all of Gerson's links down in the description box below get his book guys I'm gonna start reading his book as well in preparation for our next our next Our next episode and any questions you have I don't care if you feel like it's a stupid I get that a lot. This might be a stupid question. No, it's not the only stupid questions are the ones not asked So so and that and that is one thing you can take I've been in this world for 17 years Grissant has been in his his corner of the world with this and so we do have experience to Compare notes. I can compare having healthy teachers to his unhealthy teachers. You guys can see the difference ask any questions I can't wait to get more into Sikhism and to enter into that world Yeah, and just be very very careful guys always do your own research. Please. Please. Please do your own research Into these things we do have the worldwide web right at our fingertips And so you can find it. Yes, you're right. There are a lot of women who are saying the same thing about Bajan so as a as a Pretty well educated person. I'm gonna speculate that they are correct. The women are correct. You know, so so, you know This is deaf. This was definitely a problem. I Wish everybody's still involved in this cult. Well, I hope that they When they wake up that they're able to get the counseling and the help that they need deep program And yeah, so thank you so much everybody once again all the links will be down in the description box below and Until next time we'll talk to you guys soon. Bye everybody