 Good morning and welcome to this conversation with Gastonia Curio in the World Economic Forum in Lima, Peru. I'm Josefina Townsend from TV Peru. It is a true pleasure to be able to talk to Gastonia Curio, Peruvian chef that has launched our food, our cuisine, in a successful trip around the world and here in the country. It is a source of national pride and aside from this, with Gaston, our gastronomy cuisine has more presence in this struggle to have a society that becomes or a fairer society. Thank you very much for being here. Gaston, a moment ago you mentioned that your first restaurant AstroDen Gaston was founded in 1994 and opened, it opened its stores on July 14th. And you say that it was not on purpose, but it seemed to be because of the type of food and dishes that you offered. When in your dishes you had yucca quinoa, you prepared caosas, tiraditos, and you started using guinea pigs or guis, so when did you start involving small producers and turning this possibility of making our cuisine an opportunity to be a better country and to overcome poverty? Well, thank you. Indeed, on July 14th, which seemed to be a strategy or something that I did deliberately by trying to open an inaugurate a restaurant on the day of France in Lima, Peru, which is absolutely absurd, but at that time they were the cannons of aesthetics, beauty of what is valuable, not only in Peru, but also in Latin America and the United States and Germany. So this explained a French style, the hegemonic structure of the French style that has reached its end, as many other things in this change or this end of the era of the industrial revolution, where everything has to be beautiful so that it can look beautiful, and to shift to this new era where everything has to be different in order for it to look beautiful. That's where beauty lies in differences, and that's why small breweries appeared, boutique hotels, etc., etc. So in this world where what is beautiful is what is different, Peru suddenly emerges, Peru appears, and that's why sometimes I say that the hour of Latin America has still not arrived, it has come back, it has returned. We have to understand the historical process to reach this point and understand why cuisine is part of this process, and that will lead us to a Latin America that is once again in the middle of everything, for example in Peru of today, in the taxi, the police, people, because of their culture. This is a recent recovery. It's an emotional emancipation. Yes, it's recent because for 6,500 years this was normal. Many interesting and good things were done, creative, innovative things. Over 70% of what we eat in the world, things that our engineers but then designed and turned into products that then became universal potatoes, tomatoes, bell peppers, chocolate, peanuts, and our architects also developed a spectacular architecture of ultra state of the art, ultra modern, but Machu Picchu is still there. It's still as beautiful as it was, as logical and coherent as it was. Then we had very bad 500 years in economic, social, cultural terms because it's a colony and fundamentally an emotional colonization with the Republic. We had independence, political independence, but our mindset was incapable of releasing itself from colonization. That's why I say that the hour of Latin America, the time of Latin America has returned and that's how we somehow understand this as chefs and where we have two fundamental ingredients that have to be part of I think any company that wants to sell exist or create, which is creativity with a commitment, creativity that meets the people's need for differences that to include new things and the commitment is that people are no longer purchasing products because they like them but because they know where they come from, how they benefit society, how they're produced, etc. So in this sense in cuisine we've developed a strategy that started at that point indeed as a trip of Peruvian cuisine around the world that seems to be long and important, but that is actually just starting and that today has led us to start a new phase that implies a very complex phase and series of levels of tiers that go into all the different levels of gastronomy to be able to as soon as possible reach the market value that Italian cuisine has, which is $400 million, Peruvian is still at $10 million, so we still have a long way to go, but we trust that the youngsters that are now involved in Peruvian cuisine are going to write that history. Now in that commitment that you have to go beyond your kitchen, how has this also marked you by the fact that you are the son of a politician, you said that in your family there was not much interest for cuisine, but there was a lot of interest for politics, your father was a member of a political party, how did that shape the way in which you see Peru? Well in two senses, in the good sense of undertaking a commitment in whatever activity you fulfill with your country, with your society in a political sense to change what is wrong for what is right, and then in the other sense to try to not be like a politician in the sense of just warming a seat and talk without doing anything, but rather move on to action, what you do and how you actually build a surrounding of mutual trust and the activity in which you're participating so that from that you can generate important changes. In fact, I'm part of a movement, I'm part of a gastronomic movement that has a strategy to reach very clear objectives. The first one is for our gastronomy to serve as a promotion of our culture towards the world, the presence of Peru towards the world, universal world, that's what it means for the country. The second is the promotion of what Peru produces in terms of gastronomy towards the world to generate new markets, and so that history that we at some point turned universal products that we create here, potatoes, maize, etc, can be repeated through new products that are part of our production in every sense. The third objective is for most people around the world to come to Peru to visit Peru, tourism, promote tourism, and in that sense gastronomy can contribute and become a part of that by opening restaurants, participating in forums, etc. And the final objective that we live on a daily basis and that we mentioned at the beginning is that cuisine has to be an instrument for integration of Peruvians to strengthen our self-esteem, our identity, our culture, and to generate opportunities for people that don't have opportunities in a country where there's an urgent need for opportunities, but there are also many opportunities. So how does cuisine turn into a tool for that? We've been able to complete a first phase which is promotion, that is the world knows us. Peruvian cuisine emerges in this diverse world, it's integrated to this area of connectivity, then Peru rises with great force through its biodiversity as a magical space, as a great boutique with a lot of history, ingredients, products, and the multicultural Peru that embraced throughout its history and the last 500 years all the cultures of the world and turned into something new, a Peruvian Japanese, space Peruvian Spanish, Peruvian Japanese. So through these forces we've been able to place ourselves in the imaginary of the world. People want to try one to taste, for example there could be a very good Peruvian restaurant in Sweden and Norway and it would be successful if it's good and that's why it's important to start the second phase which is creativity with commitment and excellence as you've mentioned, yes of course, but also reviewing everything because if someday we want to have a restaurant like Italy in Ecuador which is the world of fantasy of hams and cheeses and pizzerias and Italian bistros, for that we have to have the entire gastronomic industry at that same level of quality and excellence, the cheese industry of Peru, vegetables, boutique potatoes, concepts, restaurant concepts, so if we have a 360 degree vision we have to actively participate, we have to participate with with chefs, with authorities, with producers, with consumers, with guests, developing that second phase of the strategy which is what we are now doing today. If you want we can very quickly go over some things that we're doing in agriculture and fishery. It's part of a movement and that movement has a fundamental activist which is Astrid that works with great enthusiasm in the case of your work and your mission with with cocoa producers that used to produce coke when it was incredible that they could leave such a profitable crop but also very violent, conflictive for cocoa. Yes cocoa is an emblematic example of what this means and how we link, how we connect these small farmers of Peru and this great biodiversity with this world that needs Nietzsche's special, different, unique things, magical things and all of a sudden cocoa and Peru we discover that we had native cocoa in a world that is seeking variety and so the different markets start purchasing from Peru however it's not enough because all cocoa producers are poor while chocolate producers are rich so what we have to do is have their children their offspring be sure that they can have a Peruvian chocolate factory in Peru and not in Paris so how do we do that with creativity with commitment etc but this can be applied to everything the first thing we have to do is be have trust and rely we have to develop links bonds for example setting ourselves aside from violent extreme structures and where society will no longer look at farmers at a different level top bottom but at the same level in this way generate trade this is what we started doing we started awarding the producers bringing them to the city I remember something that was very very significant and interesting when a potato producer took a bus and saw us that we were all applauding him and he said you know I'm so grateful I've been waiting for this for 500 years this is a matter of respect of dignity and from there we have to build and develop several actions so that native potatoes can be in Switzerland so that they can become gourmet products and Nietzsche markets but we have to start by developing this trust you know for example we have new restaurants Sivicides we have these specialty restaurants for example Seabass Sivicides of Juan Perez that was that was caught yesterday at such beach these should be the standards in each Sivicides in Peru and they have this wide range that joins many groups for example the fishermen the impoverished fishermen with the specialty market for example they can say I sell to this restaurant that operates under environmentally friendly standards so the farmer or the producer or the fisherman is gaining a profit Peru through this magical market and the entrepreneur as well as the environment because they've all agreed that they have to fish for example sustainably certain sizes etc so these standards in fishing that will be that will be rolled out to other other products other sectors this is all part of this new phase and how are we going to do this so this contradiction between children that suffer malnutrition in this country of gastronomic marvels how do we keep that or avoid that from weakening our message today in Peru two million children are having their breakfast with products from their own environment with recipes from their own environment produced by farmers of their own environment and you said that you send tuna cans to these communities also yes and hopefully we'll start sending many other things so this is an authentic revolution very difficult to implement as I'm sure you'll understand and it is a symbol of admiration I've been in Sweden they want to come to replicate the model because they consider it's revolutionary and above all very coherent in a country such as Peru that has great biodiversity and it makes sense to take advantage of their potential not only for financial or economic reasons but to also assist in the development of self-esteem for example of the population of the children that are used to hearing that everything that they have is ugly and also we're doing more magical poetic things we are we are growing gardens vegetable gardens in in schools so that the children can learn how to how to love their their products their land and then so that they can understand how that can then be turned into an industrial product and then for example a recovery of dignity of traditions and then they sit around the table to share to talk so we adopt a school so that the private enterprise private company can actively participate in the education of our future youngsters of future population in the field of innovation we are working very hard to develop new business models new concepts that will allow thousands of of youngsters to free themselves from the slavery of of for example thinking that they need a four million dollar of a cuisine or a kitchen and that they'll never be able to have that but now we have examples of chefs that have that are working that have started with a five thousand dollar investment so it's important to make them understand that unfortunately today the world is deliciously crazy or insane in the past economy was reserved for somebody that can pay for it today you simply press a button you can exactly know for example you can live in a very in a very humble a very impoverished zone and you can know what is going on around the world so by having access to that information what has happened that the people eat the food of the best restaurant in new york for example in a food truck in your mind you can eat it there because you understand it and you eat it happily because the chef that worked at that restaurant didn't have money he opened a food truck and started working and also for recycled yes that's part of the business model that we're trying to promote so that youngsters can have access to this but with innovation with creativity with design design is a fundamental tool for example in japan and apple costs fifty dollars not because of the apple but because of the of the wrapping of the box so we have to include design in in our entire lives and it has to be a fundamental tool in industry for example i developed a sauce that has taken me two years to just have one ingredient what i could have included 20 and saved time but it took me two years and the result is evident in my dream is that it'll be the next ketchup i don't know if i'll succeed but the peruvian taste the peruvian flavor does it have does it have peppers hot peppers yes it's that spicy taste but that that sauce has new standards and it's connected to two small producers of yellow peppers so we've worked very actively in selling our cuisine to the world and we've worked with the public sector for example in peru we've developed a state policy that sells astronomy as a promotion tool to reach those four objectives so well you know we can talk about this for hours i know there are time constraints but i've tried to share this vision that hopefully in in the next years will take us to the development of peru in which everyone will have opportunities to build a latin america where the balance between north and south is actually balanced where the flows capital flows of products consumption products from here to there could be through a fair relationship and not like we see today where we're still extracting to produce consume so how can we have how can we reach that level in which made in peru is equivalent to made in france or even be more valuable and there is a small area where we've achieved this chili which is uh well in chili peruvian restaurants are the most expensive ones you go to the wholesale market and looks like a peruvian invasion but without bullets or weapons or anything so most most of them are peruvian product stalls so we want to design a plan for our sauces with our partner with our very strategic partner to reach chili and it is already in all wholesale markets through different mechanisms that that entrepreneurs are are managing but that's the idea to but to work work with humility this isn't a matter of being chauvinistic or anything it's just a matter of sharing with the world while we bring prosperity to our own society now this topic of having 80 000 80 000 youngsters that are very enthusiastic about that about this you started a revolution of of gender normally this was an industry of women and you lived in a home full of women how did you become interested in cuisine well yes we work with the group uh called paček would think where we have fantastic youngsters that with great talent are now working a couple of them will probably in the future be the best chefs in the world but this is also response to this urgent need to to establish a chef as an intellectual being a chef no longer can no longer sell plates dishes but histories stories so a humanistic approach in southern lima art well our friends and my friends in europe say it's going to be the best uh cuisine the best school in the world because we're trying to educate intellectuals they are going to learn anthropology sociology so they can understand their surrounding biology so that they can understand the products ingredients agriculture so that they can learn how to understand the cosmo vision uh physics and physics chemistry so that they can understand processes modern arts music so that they can capture beauty rhythm include rhythm and and what they do and and everything that is necessary so that this person can be educated and then cook but cook stories seductive provocative stories that can generate change not from a political stands or discourse that seeks to go out on the streets and and have public demonstrations no but we have to undertake a role that is much more important much more beautiful in which cuisine is not only seen as as a pure activity of of fun or leisure but as education yeah and i remember that you even you told you asked your godfather to to give you a a chinese food restaurant for your birthday well yeah i was i was a strange kid a weird kid i wasn't into football and into soccer or anything i was i was deranged but you you actually wanted him to give you a restaurant and he said yeah what do you what do you want what do you want for your birthday and i said well i want a chief i want a chinese food restaurant that's what i want for my birthday i think that this phenomenon this this peaceful revolution that has started in peru and in latin america through cuisine can be replicated in our country with other manifestations of culture music well i think that everything that i've mentioned can be replicated in any activity it's it's just the act of participation of an entire productive chain regardless of what it is understanding that we have to develop it together in order to reach different goals for example different from the case of peru if we think that if we believe that the world ends in peru we're well we're dead but if we look at the world as our home we have infinite opportunities but that's not possible if we don't have that sense of of of trust of unity do you think you've achieved that well in the kitchen we're constantly trying to tear down these barriers of of distrust and out in the field etc and with the government the private sector this sense of vanity ego between among chefs you know i'm better than you are but no we we try to approach it from a different from a different point of view we try to share and and make this industry that has just started make it grow we have very significant figures if we assess japanese chinese italian cuisine as global products including the fact that today we have different brands in the markets and supermarkets of italian bakery products but and if we add this peruvian industry we see that we have a long way to go we hope that it's shorter than for the italian cuisine that was a hundred that took a hundred years the japanese also the world started integrating and it started taking off in the 90s it rapidly became global in the 90s but of course yes it is a good example because for example in the 70s if somebody said you know i want you to invest in my japanese restaurant because someday the children are going to eat raw fish or wasabi or algis you'd say this guy's crazy but today children eat sushi it's a global product that's an emblematic example to understand that if we have the most important thing which is great biodiversity a great culture a unified gastronomic movement we should at least reach the presence of value recognition that that global other global cuisines have and also overcome international crisis well yes the most important ingredient that we have today in peru is optimism and and the will the great patrimony that we have today is that our youngsters for example and most of them don't want to work for the state they don't want to belong to a political ideology of any kind whatsoever they want to make their dreams come true they want to work for themselves so how can we release all that energy how can we generate a new legal system or framework that can allow those youngsters to turn that dream into a reality that's the great challenge youngsters have not grown with violence or terrorism or with the hyperinflation that you had to live yes we've improved it but we do see other types of violence social violence for example mothers that suffer because they can't feed their children so these are other forms of violence but we have to recover trust hope so those that have more opportunities have the responsibility of taking the first step and something that I liked when he is when you said that when when you play outside you're the national team that expect to compete and to win awards well yeah we received an award by that was given to us by the french nope excuse me by the by the swedish prince and it was this big deal so and we received it and then when they saw us work they understood that we were actually representing a movement and that that award wasn't to a person it it was to a message to efficiency it was an award for strategy with with concrete specific results to the point in which sweden which is a country that is very far away from Peru all of a sudden distances became shorter and so we received this global award which is recognition to all that so yes we we are soldiers in our time but instead of trying to conquer territories want to conquer hearts we want to generate smiles which is which generate warmth which is the wonderful thing of our of our work we're not trying to destroy others and then come back to our homes happy and feeling contented with that no we want to have happy customers our mission is to make people feel happy and that's something that we have to be thankful for every day and uh what would be the ingredients for this revolution to reach most of the Peruvians what would that recipe be well first uh creativity constantly think about what things we can do what new things how to improve etc commitment when irreplaceable commitment we have to strengthen this this commitment as a tool that must be fundamental and that can have no concessions and third is patience patience because sometimes we're very passionate and want to do things fast but with these things we can everything is possible thank you very much kustin