 What's up in today's episode, we talk about veganism, the right and the wrong way to do it, all the controversy around Andrew Tate. You're all losers. We've discussed this before. I'm the king of the world. And then we have four live callers that Colin, one of them wanted to know about strength training for kids and another one had low back problems and can't figure out the cause. By the way, if you want to just look at short clips of great fitness information, you don't want to watch a whole episode, go to our mind pump clips channel on YouTube. Alright, here comes the show. If you're going to go vegan, do it for the right reasons. Otherwise, it's likely to lead to worse health. I know. Keep going after them. We gave them like 30 days off. Yeah, we did. No, okay, so study. I just healed. Another study came out. I know. New study. I saw a Max Lugovir posted it, yeah. He did. And it shows that strict adherence to a plant-based diet leads to a much higher consumption of ultra processed foods. Alright, so let's clarify when I say if you're going to go vegan, do it for the right reasons. When you look at the data on vegans that not only do a better job going vegan, in other words, they make better food choices. They're less likely to get nutrient deficiencies because those tend to be more common in purely vegan diets. And those same people who tend to stick to the diet because otherwise vegan diets like any diet, people fall off after a certain period of time at something like 85%, right? Those people who do well in on vegan diets, the main motivating factor for them is a deep passion for the well-being of animals. Their motivation is not weight loss. Their motivation is not improving my health. Their motivation is not helping the environment or the climate or pollution. Their motivation is I really want, I don't want animals to die. It's mainly animal cruelty is their passion. Not just animal cruelty, but they have a deep passion for just, I don't want animals to die at all. Any life. And yeah, and this is why I'm doing this. And what happens because of that belief, because it's such a strong core tenant for these people, that they do the work. They do the work of making it work for them in their life. They go through and try to eat it healthy and watch the nutrient deficiencies and they stick to it. They're consistent with it. Everybody else, number one falls off. They fall off like any other diet. Keto diet, paleo diet, you know, cucumber juice diet or whatever, vegan diet, they fall off afterwards very quickly. Well, because what are you going to replace your super satiating type of a meat that you need to make sure now it has to be like from a vegan source? Well, that's the main problem because the people that watched the documentary that went viral, what a few years ago, what the hell, right? What the hell was it called? That watched that documentary and I had several family members that were not vegan before that documentary. Then after that documentary, I'm eating dinner with them and I'm like, what's going on with you? Oh, I'm vegan now. Are they still vegan? Yeah. Oh, no, they're not. They're not anymore. And anyway, and during that time it was like, they would all go, did you see the documentary? What the hell? I'm like, yes, I saw it. But what they do is they just cut out meat. They literally eat exactly the same. They cut out meat. They eat the same natural food. Right. And then the normal, the thing that replaces is all this artificial processed bullshit. Yeah. And it's just not ideal. Now, in defense, okay, and I don't want, I'm going to come to the defense of the vegans in this because I don't see much of a difference in my opinion in the keto diet. In fact, my experience going through the keto diet, I remember, you know, reporting back to the guys like, you know what I find myself doing is eating butter and macadamia nuts. Yeah, bacon. Yeah, bacon, like just like a lot of all those foods. And that because you don't have a lot of options. Those are the easiest things that you tend to find in your refrigerator. And, you know, all I was doing was cutting out carbs. And so I had to eat these really high fat foods and then also trying to get some protein in there. And I kind of found myself gravitating to a very small rotation of foods. And it was, I was like, this can't be ideal for me to eat like this forever. Plus, I don't want to. I'm going to be blamed. Well, with a keto diet, what you may find what's more common in a ketogenic diet is a deficiency in fiber, right? It's common in a ketogenic. Why you're limiting carbohydrates and there are lots of carbohydrate sources where people tend to get their fibers from. So they cut out carbs and instead of replacing those with like fibrous non carbohydrate type vegetables, they tend to not do that. So you run into like fiber issues. Well, with vegans who don't do it well, who aren't well planned with it? Like what people don't realize is with the vegan diet, you have to kind of plan it in a more special way because you have to make sure that you don't come up with nutrient deficiencies, B vitamins, iron, for example. A choline is very hard to come by in a vegan diet or actually impossible, right? So what you tend to see with vegans is either they supplement. So they supplement with key nutrients that they're not going to get from their food or they plan it really, really well. And it tends to be more or less whole food based and they tend to prepare their foods. Okay, that's when people do it right. People who do it wrong, what they do is they say, okay, I'm just going to avoid all animal products. So they go to the grocery store and they go, well, I can get some fruits and vegetables, but let me get this meatless burger patty. Let me get these meatless hot dogs. And oh, wait, are these potato chips? Yes, they are. Are these other snacks? Oh, yeah, look at the label if it says vegan. Yeah, and they end up with often nutrient deficiencies because there's certain nutrients that are either hard to come by or you don't really find them in plant sources. And you only get them in meat sources. And then to the point with the study that Max posted is, you know, if you look at the average Westerners diet, especially in America, and you were to analyze it. This is creeped up, right? Over the over the last few decades, the amount, the percentage of our diet that's been made up of heavily processed foods, which we all know lead to overeating, tend to be less healthy, probably the main cause of obesity. Those that that food consumption, which is crept up on its own anyway, which now makes up about 60 to 70% of the average American's diet. If you look at the percentage of their food that is not ultra processed, it's usually eggs, milk and meat. Okay, so it's like, now what you're going to do is you're going to take the only whole food diet, whole foods out of their diet. And what they're likely to replace it with, which is what the study shows is more ultra processed food. So now they're going to eat worse than they did before their health is worse. They get nutrient deficiencies. They don't feel good. And you run to a lot of different problems. Not to mention all the fake versions of meat suck in comparison. So it's like, then you're, you're all, you're getting less nutrients and then you're taking in something that is just doesn't, doesn't taste as good as what you're having. Or less bio available vegetable oils and all that stuff. Or less bio available nutrients. So sometimes what they'll do is I'll even make these animal products substitutes and they'll add vegan ingredients to make up for the nutrient deficiencies. Plant proteins and plant based vitamin D and plant, you know, other vitamins and nutrients and certain types of iron that you find in plants. The problem is many of these nutrients are far less bio available. For example, vitamin D, you can get a form of vitamin D from mushrooms, but it's way less bio available than the vitamin D you would get from, for example, cod liver oil, right? Vitamin D three, right? Vitamin D two is the one that you tend to find in vegetables. That's one example. So you end up with a lot of problems, poor health issues. And then we can go down, of course, the list of all the other problems that comes from. So really, if you view veganism as a diet, it's going to fail and you're going to do terribly and you're going to feel bad, just like almost any other diet. If you view veganism as a way of life as part of one of your core beliefs, the data shows you can make it work. It's going to take some time. It's going to take some effort and some learning, but you're more likely to be successful doing it that way. And this is the advice I gave to clients the last probably 10 years that I trained people. Today's giveaway for this episode. MAPS Anabolic, the program that started it all. Here's how you win. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel. Turn on notifications. Do all those things. If we like your comment, we'll notify you in the comment section. That's what we're going to notify you that you get free access to MAPS Anabolic. Also, we have a sale going on right now. Two workout program bundles on sale. We have the skinny guy bundle. It's got all these amazing workout programs included. And then we have the fit mom bundle, which has all these other amazing workout programs included. Both programs, 50% off. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below to get our discount. All right. Here comes the show. Speaking of data, have you guys seen the new Dyson vacuum cleaner? I heard of the one. I heard of the one. You ruined my dad joke. I just said that. Pull this up. Dyson, I think V15 Detect, I believe is the brand. I don't know how this works. I saw it in my feed first, and then I get at it. Because I clicked on it, I was like, no, I see it everywhere. But it actually is picking it up. Are you pulling it up yet, Doug? I'm grabbing it. Yeah, I want the guys to see. I feel like his genius is so wasted. Why is he innovating so much in the vacuum space? Is that it right there? It makes so many cool products, but it's like, who cares? It's still vacuum cleaner. All right, so what does it do? It actually has a percentage breakdown of what you're... So it actually is breaking mites and dust, and it actually gives you... It analyzes your dirt? Yes, it analyzes what you're cleaning up in your house. You got all the DNA and everything. Hold on, Justin, I love you so much. I've ruined it again. I love you so much, Justin. Does this thing connect to the internet? I don't know. That I don't know. Chemical composition of Adam Shaffer's home. What are all the different things? It reads all kinds of stuff. Why would I want to know that, except to make me more grossed out and scared? I know. Because there's mites everywhere. Do you guys know that? Yes, that's why it's showing up. Would you want to know if you had a little, like, way more than usual? Hold on a second. Did you really know that there's... I don't know if I'd wanted to. Do you really know that there's microscopic mites in your eyelashes? Yeah, yeah, I know. They literally live in your fucking eyelashes right now. Little bugs. I shower twice a day. You ain't getting no mites at your eyelashes. You got long eyelashes too. Whatever. It's a good time for a caldera commercial right now. That's not our sponsor. Stop it. Wow, so that breaks down everything that's coming out. Yeah, isn't that fascinating? You seen that, Doug? Yeah, I see it. Do you think it's cool? Well, it's cool, but why would I care? Oh, you don't care? I don't care. I mean, I don't want to know. So this goes past, like, sort of the visible speck. So it'll actually, like, take all the little microbes and all that and break it down. What if your kids had a party and you're cleaning up and it's like 12% cocaine? What? Yeah, right. I know. It tells you what kind of substance it is. So what are those four categories? What does it say? I'm not sure. I mean, it looks like mites. It looks like viruses. It looks like, I don't know, dust. That's bacteria. And mold. I think it's bacteria, mold, virus. I know that's a virus. I know why they're doing this, right? Because everybody's a freaking hypochondriac now because the last couple of years. Yeah, I think it's clever marketing. You know what this might actually do? Let's think of human behavior for a second. Now, Adam is probably the most dysfunctional with this in a sense that he wants things to be spotless. I bet this would encourage Adam to be even more cleaning shit up. Oh, yeah. It's clean, but then you go, it's not dicing clean. Yeah. No, it would. You know what I'd want to do is improve the percentages. We had, honey, 75% mites last week. Every time you're... Every time your brother's over here. I don't know exactly where he is. I picked up four toenails. Did you buy one? I did it. I literally just saw this. You're going to buy one. I might. I might. How much is it? I can't admit that I have it. Like 800 bucks. 800 bucks? That's Adam with 100%. I guarantee. Do you have a good vacuum at home? I don't even have a vacuum. Oh, because you have housekeepers coming clean or whatever? Yeah, I don't. You know what? We might have one in there. I think I have one. Have you guys ever had a door-to-door vacuum sales guy come to your house? My mom used to do that. Vacuum sales guy? Oh, yeah. Rainbow vacuums. Rainbows, yeah. Rainbows used to do that. That was a hustle for them. My mom worked for them for a while. We had Lux. Something Lux? 1,000 to $1,500 for those vacuums, by the way. Bro, they... Wow. Those sales guys. Can I say this up right now? Yeah. The sales guys that sold those vacuums were some of the best closers you'll find anywhere in the world. In the 80s, they were. Like in the 80s, a vacuum sales guy is what we would consider like the gym sales. Yeah. Did you guys need some of them made? Yeah. Big money. I knew a guy in the 90s who used to sell vacuums and I made fun of him. I used to sell vacuums. Show me his check. I was making 15 grand a month selling vacuums. Okay. You know how, quote-unquote, poor we were or whatever? We had one of those $1,000 vacuums because... Rainbow, yeah. That's why you were poor. Somebody sold my... You know what they used to do? They'd come in and throw dirt on the floor. Yeah. They'd throw all kinds of shit on your floor and you're like, ugh. And then they'd clean it all up and you'd be like, wow. Listen, so one of their techniques, which was brilliant, by the way, in the early days... They had the spinning water. They used to have a spinning water in it. Okay. Back in the day. My grandma had one. Back in the day, by the way, this was an early tactic. This is true now. You would open the door and they wouldn't even ask you. They'd fucking throw dirt on your floor. Throw it in there. I swear to God. They'd throw dirt and they'd say, don't worry. Don't worry. I'm going to clean your floors for you for free. And then later on, they would ask you for permission. And then what they would do is they would have you grab your vacuum. You'd get your vacuum and you'd vacuum it up. Then they'd use their vacuum. And then the water and the vacuum or whatever would get all dirty. Be like, look how much you missed. Hold on a second. Get your minivan and run this over. Yeah. Yeah. Still intact. Why is it that all of that for Marshall? Run shit over with the vacuum. They always run it over. They explode it. Drive it off a cliff. Yeah. It still works. Still. Who's doing this? Indestructible. Who's running over a vacuum? This guy has like a blowtorch. Yeah. It still works. Wow, man. Last vacuum. I don't know. I thought that was really, I thought that was funny. It's okay. I have two things that I thought were kind of neat right there. Do you know the fuller brush guy? Fuller brush guy. There'd be people go around door to door and they would sell like brushes and spatulas and things like that. Oh, no. I don't remember that. When you were a young kid. The two big hardcore sales people I remember in the 80s were rainbow vacuums and World Book. Oh, the encyclopedias. World Book encyclopedias were like. All by all of them. All of them. I still have them. I knew it. My mom has all of them too. I taught on the child books and World Books. Yeah, so we had two, three big bookshelves filled with encyclopedias that my mom paid expensive, right? A lot of money for. Yeah. And then every year they would send a new one because it would be a review of the previous year. Yeah. I used to sit down. I mean, I know I've told this before. I'd sit down and I'd take a letter, you know, like B through D and I'd sit down and I'd just read the encyclopedia and just learn random shit about it. So it was so cool. Yeah. You had a good time. Well, you know, the kids version of it were, I don't know if that's the one you started on or not, but the kids ones were cool. They had like pictures and examples. I had the Snoopy ones when I was real kids. So I was like seven or eight. I would read the Snoopy encyclopedia. But those door-to-door sales people, I vividly remember like how aggressive they were and how often they would come around, you know. And eventually, oh, we already have it. We had a window. We had a second one. They were closers. Bro, I gotta say right now, the brain blend from Ned is fire. Oh, yeah. Fire. That was whoever helped them come up with the formulation. I'm anticipating the next time I get my hands on it, dude. Opportunity to stroke himself off. I know. No, it's, listen. Who's behind this? I don't know. Whoever advised that. No, I, so I got the ingredients right here. So a single serving or a dropper full is 12.5 milligrams of CBD, 12.5 milligrams of CBG, which has got brain boosting effects. And then there's other cannabinoids. It's the gangster version. It also has a Ginkgo. So Ginkgo helps with blood flow to the brain. Go to Cola, which is a mild stimulant, but Copa, which also does a blood flow to the brain. Siberian ginseng. It's got brain health effects. It's also kind of a mild adaptogen. Lion's mane. We know that as well as being another new tropic. Anyway, fire. You take this. You've, I swear to God, people listening right now. I concur. You got something creative or you got to go to a party. Take it before you go to the party and watch what happened. Watch the crowd form in front of you. You'll be able to just tell them things you learn in a psychopedic. All day. That's crazy. That's never happened. You just hold court. Like, to me, it's weird. That actually happened once. Doug and I went to this internet marketing convention years when we first started with Maps Anabolic and we went to this party. And I remember at one point I started talking about, I don't remember what I was talking about, supplements. And it was like, people were kind of coming around, sitting around and dugs in the back, smiling. He's like, yeah, we're going to make it. He's like, I don't want to make millions off this guy. I just put a quarter in him and turned him on. He's like, let him go. Yeah. It's a good stuff. Anyway, all right. So we have to talk about Andrew Tate. Oh. Andrew Tate. Yesterday. So he was on, hold on. He was on. Wait, wait, wait. I get this table. I get to set the table because I brought it to you. It's only fair. You did. It's only fair. You did. Well, actually, let me back up. Andrew brought Andrew Tate to me first. So about three weeks ago. Are you two producers? Are you two producers? Andrew goes, hey, we should get Andrew Tate on the show. And I'm like, who the fuck is that? I don't know who he is at this time. Oh, it was a long time ago. Yeah. So this is like a month ago or so. And he's like, yeah, yeah, you should check him out. And so I started going through his clip. Okay. And honestly, God, my response was, yeah, this is not somebody I wanted to show. And I, and I had only probably consumed some of his reels and TikToks and things like that. But you know how the algorithms work once I clicked on some of his stuff. Now I'm getting fed all this stuff. So eventually I go down the rabbit hole. Watch a few things. He says a few things that I agree with. I'm like, okay, maybe I'll listen to this guy a little bit. So eventually I end up listening to a few interviews and I actually end up liking a lot of his content, but I know he's extremely controversial. So now I become interested in what he has to say. I know Patrick Bet David has a big interview, I believe, and I don't know if this is public knowledge, if I can share this or not, but I won't say where it came from. So I'm going to go ahead and share it. So I, I heard that a PBD paid him a quarter million to a half a million dollars for that interview. So it makes sense. Yeah. And I think they met in Miami and they had this because he entertains like all over the place. Yeah. And they met and had like a five hour interview. Now I'm not all the way through, but I'm like three something hours into it. And I was really, because Sal and I got into an argument about him. Big argument. Yeah. It kind of started. And I kind of had the same perception that Sal had going into it too. It was like, because the perception out there is that, you know, they take little clips of what he's been saying. And he sounds very misogynistic. He sounds very arrogant. Arrogant. Yeah. Exactly. Very boisterously. So immediately too, like you guys know this, anybody that's charismatic and is that, you know, confident. I usually try and cut him down right away. So that's, I was like, I don't know, but I started to kind of watch into the content to get a little better understanding of what message he's putting out. Yeah. Well, I mean, make no mistake. He is an egomaniac. He is a hundred percent. And he definitely comes across as a douchebag in an asshole. Yeah. So that's, make no mistake. I think that's, I don't think anybody can argue that, right? I don't think any of us would argue that, but what I mean, he's not somebody I would like. But what I will say towards that is all four of us in this room were rated high on the narcissistic test. And ego is also a, it's not a purely negative thing. Ego is a very positive thing too. Oh yeah, you know, but his, his definitely, I don't know the guy personally, but he definitely comes across as dysfunctional. There's a dysfunctional level of narcissism. And he definitely comes across that way. But here's the thing that I, that I came up, because I'm watching it and I've seen some of his content. I don't like the guy, but here's, here's what I'm going to say. And this is where I think things get interesting. I think right now, and this happened with former president, Donald Trump too. There's a shell game that's being played with us. And here's what the game is. The game is that somebody gets kicked off the internet. Okay. What happened to Andrew Tate? Same thing that happened to Donald Trump. And then the narrative that gets promoted is did he deserve it? Is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy? And everybody argues and debates about that. Oh, Donald Trump deserves to be on social media. Other people know he stoked the flames of the January 6th insurrection. Oh, he's this. Oh, he's that. Same thing with Andrew Tate. No, he's good. He says the truth. No, he's an asshole. He's misogynistic. He's back and forth. This is not the conversation. This is a shell game. Here's the conversation. How in the hell? How in the hell did all of these extremely competitive big tech companies who otherwise kill each other for followers and money? Literally. Meta would crush Twitter if they could. They would crush all these other social media platforms. You too. They fight over audiences. Constantly. They are extremely competitive. One of the most competitive markets in the world. How did all of them, and it turns out much more, Uber, Stripe, Gmail, how did all these tech companies that compete so aggressively, simultaneously, erased someone off the internet? So I'm glad you went that way. Yeah. That's the conversation. It opens the door for me to concede our previous argument. Okay, so I think I gave you shit and Justin's shit with your 10 foil hats. With the conspiracy, which is just... We're just paying attention. That the government's out to do all stuff. After listening to how coordinated that was. And all these other companies? Uber? Uber kicked them off. There's no rhyme or reason to it other than... Well, I mean, it's orchestrated. So my thought, the way I argued it last time was like, you don't think that a couple of these tech guys come to it, but you're talking about bank accounts, you're talking about Uber. Banks kicked them out. You're talking about Gmail. Yes. Now that is way too coordinated now. I was diving into this content because I'm like, what is so dangerous about this individual that has government and has big companies like so threatened by this guy? Yeah. Well, you need to... There's two things that you need to understand before we continue with this because someone listening is like, that doesn't make sense. And I talked to my son about this because my son's in the age group of kids that listen to this guy. My son's not a fan. But I said, hey, I want you to listen to this interview and this specific part about all the things that kicked them off and how that... So him and I got into this discussion and he's like, dad, why would government care? How can they do that? You know, okay, here's the deal. Post 9-11, this is true. We passed legislation. Look at the Patriot Act and look at the National Defense Authorization Act. Those are two more specific ones, but there's more legislation after that, okay? But those two specific ones that were passed post 9-11 allow, give the power to the government to literally, if they think you're a threat to national security, they don't have to go to a judge, a trial, a jury. They don't have to get a warrant. They could go through your stuff. They could go through a house. They could label you a terrorist and just erase you. In fact, non-defense, the National Defense Authorization Act allows the government, in writing, they could come to you, throw you in jail in Guantanamo Bay, tell no one, and keep you there forever. No judge, no trial, no jury. That's in the legislation. So this legislation gives the power of the government. If they view someone as a national security threat, then what they could do is they could go to these companies, compel them, and maybe they don't go to these companies and say, you better do this or we're going to whatever. But maybe you're the CEO of YouTube and the head of the CIA shows up, or FBI, says, hey, you know, we think this guy's a national security threat. We really advise that you guys kick him off and we want you to do it on this date. We think it's a good idea. Now, if you're the CEO and you're getting visited by the CIA, you're probably going to be like, either A, you believe them. You're like, I want to help. Or B, you're like, I better fucking do what they say. And if you don't do what they say, what could potentially follow. Yeah, you're the target now. Not only be a target, but they can say, hey, by the way, we could find you, we could shut you down, and we could also deny it and you can't take us to court. This is in legislation. This is the law of the land. So I think that's what happened because no way, never in history... Was Zuckerberg described? He said the same. He said it. Never in history have competing companies in a free market. Yeah, that's why. So readily left money on the table because if you're, look it, if you're YouTube and Meta kicks Andrew Tate off, and this is the most searched man on the internet. And you're YouTube? If I'm the CEO of YouTube, I'm like, hell yeah. Now all those people are going to come over here. He's going to make so much more money. We're going to make so much more money. This is going to be great. But no, they all did this simultaneously. And instead, what we're arguing over is, is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy? Is he whatever? I don't give a shit what he says. He has a right to say it. And yes, he's a private company. And so essentially what's happened is because of that legislation, the government now can impose tyranny by proxy. They basically skirted the constitution because they can't do it themselves. The government can't, can't silence you. Yeah. Right. But the government can use a private company and the private company can do it. And then you could try to see the company and have a look around. Now the irony of all of this is that, and you brought this up off air yesterday and I 100% agree this, is you actually, and this is where the government is stupid, is you just made him more powerful. He literally went to rumble. He's a martyr now. He went to rumble and what took him five to seven years to build a following on YouTube. Yup. He almost already surpassed that. He definitely has more eyes on him on rumble. Because he was being shadow banned forever. So it was still growing, right? Despite that. He goes over to rumble, blows up immediately and has way more eyeballs on him than he had before. And now everybody is seeking him. Now all the stuff in my Explorer page. So even though his Instagram is blocked. Other people are posting your shit. Anybody that's posting stuff of his stuff is going viral all over the place. And so they literally just made him, if your desired outcome was to shoot him down and hurt him and shut him up, you literally just gave this guy way more power. What you've done is you've taken his base of fans. Look at Donald Trump, for example. Right, made him more radical. What happened to Donald Trump was crazy. He got simultaneously kicked off all platforms, got picked up by another platform called Parler, who's like, we're gonna have you on. And then what they did is the servers that hosted Parler kicked him off. And the app companies kicked him off. That was very strange. And when that all happened, I was like, oh my gosh, this isn't good. But what happened to Donald Trump's most hardcore, his base, they became more solid. More entrenched with that. Yeah. Because now he's this savior. Everyone's against him. You know, all these people with Andrew Tay. See, he's right about the Matrix. How he talks about the Matrix. He's right. Cue and all these things happen. It's such a stupid... What you need to do is let him do his thing and then have people debate him. Yeah, with better ideas. And then if he breaks... With his ideas. Yeah, it's the thing. We need that competition of ideas and be able to have discord and discuss these things. Yes. And if he breaks the law, then go after him. If he does incite violence or he does do something like slander or whatever, there's laws. This is the danger of censorship. I felt it was... What I was really... And how we got into such a heat about and why I was passionately defending his character, even though I don't really truly know the guy, was because I went through the same story arc I feel like that you both went through. I just went through it first where I felt the same way. I didn't like him at first. But then I also had to check myself and go like, you know what? I've been mainly consuming his content in 90-second bits, 15-second bits. Out of context. Yeah, out of context. And I haven't truly listened to this guy explain his points and these misogynistic comments that he's making. Right. And in the Patrick Bed David interview, he does that. And he addresses every single thing. Patrick Bed David was great. Literally wrote every quote that he's been destroyed for the day. What he does that I think is bad. The reason why I don't like him. And I have... I've only heard maybe... Well, now I've heard probably five hours of his content. Because I listened to two hours of the interview and I've listened to maybe two or three hours of other stuff. What he does that I think is bad is the way he communicates, how he comes across, the way he presents masculinity, which is machismo, this like loud and out there, bravado, which is not real masculine confidence. Like if you've ever met a really confident man, you're secure. They're not the loud ones at the bar. It's not an act. Yeah, they're not the loud ones at the bar banging their chest and telling you, they're the one that's cool. I've hung out with people like that. I had a buddy who was an MMA fighter and I remember somebody trying to throw a drink on him and he was so cool about it. And I remember being like, man, what a confident guy. You know, in his defense on that, he actually gets into that towards about the three hour mark of the interview and... It's probably how he grew up. I'm sure that's part of... Well, yeah. I mean, there's definitely a... He does it to hack the algorithms. He does. A lot of the stuff he says and does, he knows he's kind of fucking with people because he knows he's getting in their head. He's making them emotional and he's like, that's the way that he's playing chess with them in a sense. Yeah. And then, but okay, that doesn't justify completely and it still doesn't combat your point. But where I do understand a little bit or I think I, or where I'm defending him now is that he had become aware of that in just recent time, in the last few months. And he said, you know, leading up to my... I'm trying to change it. Yeah, he says, in leading up to the last three months before I was banned, my team and I were sitting down and we were taking that into consideration. Even though this strategically, this is smart for me to do all of that, I'm also impacting a 15-year-old boy that may be consuming this content in such a short form that he's gonna take that the wrong way and that is not my desired outcome. See, that's how I put myself in that. And I'm proud because my son is that target audience of his and my son doesn't like him for the same exact reason. It's a very impressionable demographic. And that's because my son has a good relationship with me. So I'm a good... I think that's what I would guess and I'm a good, a better example of that. Now, if I were a 15-year-old, 16-year-old boy, I don't have a good male role model or I grew up really hard. Oh, 100... I would be... I would look at this guy... 100% that's why I'm John 2. He's firing you up. I didn't have a dad role figure like that in my life and I have that edge to me as a kid. Yeah. And if you, if I was 12... So you could identify with him. Yeah. So I could totally identify with him. I was 12 years old. I would be drawn to that. I would totally... I could totally say it. And you're 100% spot on. The answer to someone as Andrew Tate, if you don't like the way he's delivering that message because I don't disagree with a lot of things he says, is to be a better father, to be a better role model. Yeah. To take the things that he's saying and be able to deliver to your son. Son, that's not what masculinity is. Right, right. Now, look, some of the stuff he says is wrong, by the way. He said something about women being worse drivers and then what's his name said. Well, you know, they get less accident. Well, because men drive more. That's not, that's not true. Insurance companies do a really good job of calculating risk and men get into more fatal and more terrible accidents because more bigger risk takers. So he tends to go wrong because he wants so hard to defend men all the time. But here's another underlying part of this. Besides the most important part, which I think is we all, all of us need to be very alarmed that they can erase someone from the internet from these private companies and they can do so seemingly with impunity. That's a very dangerous precedent. That means that they could direct speech and silent speech and the most important freedom that we have is protected a speech. That's my strongest opinion and I think that's the opinion of a lot of people who are experts on this. But what I think about the guy in this particular sense is I think he's a reaction. I think his popularity, the reason why he's popular is because a lot of these kids, a lot of these boys, especially these boys without good male role models, keep hearing about how their masculinity is toxic. They keep hearing about how they're privileged if they're white, even though, man, I don't have parents and I'm poor. They keep being told how men are this, men are that, you're this, and men don't have a role in society like they did in the past where men had kind of clear defined roles. Not saying that's a bad thing, it's just you're kind of trying to find yourself. And so it's like, it's a reaction. I keep being told that I'm toxic. I keep being told I'm privileged. I don't feel privileged. I keep being told all these things. And then here's this guy on there telling you, you're great, pick yourself up, bust your ass, stop crying, be a man, whatever. And it's a very appealing message because it's on the opposite side and it makes you feel more empowered. It makes you feel strong. The inner struggle that I have with coming out with a decision on how do I feel about this guy, right? How do I feel about his content? And he went in pretty hard on Logan Paul, who actually I've speak positively about. His points on Logan were on point though. They were very on point. And it actually made me think a little bit, like, you know, who is better for our society gaining all this attention and stuff like that? Is Andrew Tate or Logan Paul better for my teenage, like my boy's not a teenager yet, but if he was a teenage boy, would I be more concerned about him, like a massive Logan Paul follower and attention to all his stuff? Or would I be more concerned about him? Wow, that's a good point. Think about that for a second. Yeah, because I feel like it would start great conversations. I think it would challenge maybe some of your son's beliefs but whereas Logan Paul's like entertainment at Goofy, you know. Follow whatever the norm, you know. Wherever the wind blows, he doesn't stand up for anything that he believes in. Flip flops on some of the stuff that he said in the past. Man, and I think I would rather have someone like Andrew Tate who's delivering a message that I agree with a good percentage of it but I don't agree with the way he's delivering it and then I can have that deeper conversation with my son like, well son, there's some things that he's saying that are true and I like, but you don't want to come off this way for these reasons and then be versus him just blindly following some kid who's an entertainer. What it is is, and we talk about this all the time, it's not just what you're trying to communicate but it's also how you communicate it and how you communicate it makes a big deal. For example, he talked about, and this is a very, you know, for sensitive listeners, I mean, this actually happened, he got in a debate with a feminist and the feminist was like, we need to teach men not to rape and he's like, men know not to rape, we need to teach women how to stay safe or be more responsible and then he uses the example of like, you know, if a woman is in a dark alley late at night and then she gets assaulted, she bears some responsibility because she put herself in that situation. Now, the way he communicates it was shitty. Well. And it comes across really bad. In that context, yes. Yes. He went in deep on that. I know, but my point is the way he initially, the way he tends to communicate it when he goes off. Yeah, yeah. And the way I would communicate it to my daughter is I'd say, hey, you need to be safe, be aware, but I wouldn't be like, if something happened or like, you bear responsibility. Because I, he goes, he later, I don't remember how far deep into that because they actually touch on that twice. Like he briefly went over it. Yeah. And when he was going over the list and then later on he goes, I really want to address that because it's one of the ones how passionate he says I feel about women and stuff and what he does for that community. He goes, I, first of all, I intentionally did that because it was a feminist, right? So I wanted to rattle her cage. I knew that would emotionally fucking bomb in her head, right? So he did that intentionally to rattle a cage. And then he goes on to explain in like great detail on what he means by that. And I, and I, and I agree with him like the message. The sentiment. Yeah. Yeah. The sentiment and the messaging that he's trying to teach it's not, it's not at all to say, he thinks it's a more dangerous message to be teaching women that like, you should be able to walk around and make it all you want and actually think that there's not going to be stupid men that will always be around. I think you would never want to teach your daughter. The most effective thing you can do, in my opinion. There's a bunch of trenders out there. Yes. My, the most effective thing you could do is to teach men to protect women in situations like that. I think that's smart. And I think to teach women, teach young women, hey, here's situations you probably shouldn't be in or here's a, if you go out, take a friend. If you're going to go on a date with a guy that you met on Tinder or on a dating app, tell your friends where you're going to be at, share your location, communicate to them what's going on, let them know what car he's driving. Like that kind of stuff I think is, or carry a gun. If you live in a state where you can do concealed carry or carry a gun in your purse. His point that I think is so true is like, man, I'm not going to tell my daughter that, you know, let me, I'm going to get out there and I'm going to make sure I get messaging around and tell these guys that, you know, to be better. Like he goes, that's, there's no world that exists like that where there's going to be perfect men that respect that. There's always going to be evil and bad and all these things like that. So I'm going to, I'm going to educate my daughter on being safe and smart and doing this. And right now that's not the messaging. The messaging is she should be able to do whatever she wants and men need to not do. And it's like, that isn't, that's a danger. He goes, that's more dangerous than what I'm trying to say right now. So I have a friend. This is true. I have a story. I have a friend whose daughter had just turned 21 and he was very good about this. He would teach his daughter, watch out for this, watch out for that, make sure you're in these situations, make sure you're not in these situations. And he taught her, this was years ago, he said, never leave your drink at the bar unattended. Keep your hand on top of it at all times. It's like the cardinal rule. Okay. So she was, she was doing that. So she was very safe about it. Her friend wasn't because she was saying, I'm 21 and I'm having fun or whatever. And she saw a guy slip something in her drink. Dude, this happens way more often than people realize. Yes. Yes. It's a real problem. But I mean, thankfully because he taught his daughter this, and of course you got to be careful. You don't want your kid to walk around scared of life. Right. But you just make them aware and say, hey, just keep your hand on your drink. And I think this idea of us shaming the guys that are doing evil and bad things like that is a losing battle. Yeah, good luck. They don't give a shit. No. Those are evil people. And even if you improve that by all the messaging, all the shaming, you're never going to eliminate it. If you want to do something to them, I think sexual assault, violence against other people should be the worst punishable offenses in the law. I think it's crazy that someone get caught carrying 15 hits of acid in particular states will get more time than a guy that physically assaults a woman. I think that's insane. If you physically assault someone or sexual assault, it should be the biggest punishment by far. I agree. Especially if you're in a position of power. Especially if you're in a position of power. That's controversial. I know. Actually, did you hear him break down to his hole because one of the things he gets in trouble for is saying that he'd rather live in a lawless place like Romania? That one I disagree with. I know where his point was and how he placed us. No, I totally don't disagree with that. I totally think that's a great point. No. You don't... I know because my, you know, Sicily and my parents' generation and my grandparents' generation was like that. And it's not... You don't want to live in a place like that. I know what he said. He said in a place like that, where corruption is more available to the masses, as he said. Yeah. But the reality is that people with more money still have more power. They still are able to corrupt them. So, okay, so he clarifies that like as who he is and he's setting his... Maybe for him because he's a millionaire. Yeah, because he's a hundred millionaire. Yeah. And so he can pay off. You know, he could pull over and have alcohol on his breath. He could easily drop $10,000 to the cop, you know, and be... And cop will let him go. And cop will let him go. So, yes, I agree. If you're a normal person, I would want to live in a more protected place. But if I'm at his level, where I've got private jets... I could see his point. Yeah, yeah. So, I don't disagree with that. I mean, I think that's a fair point to make. Yeah, I could totally see it. Anyway, I want to hear what you were going to say about Ty Cobb and his dentures. Yeah, so, Ty Cobb's dentures. Now, wasn't he the first baseball card or was he the most valuable baseball card? I think he's the most valuable. I don't know if he's the most valuable. I thought he was the most valuable baseball card of all time. Mickey Mantle's card. That's a good question. I don't know. I think yeah, I think Mickey Mantle's baseball card is one of the most expensive. Yeah, maybe that can look up the most. Ty Cobb is up there, 100%. He was one of the first big baseball stars, right? Yeah, yeah, he's up. Boy, you're going to challenge me on like an exact year and stuff like that. Everybody is and who came first. I couldn't tell you that. But anyways, yes, yes. Famous, absolutely famous baseball player. His dentures were just auctioned off for $18,000. Wow. That was so great. Who wants those? I know. Bro, if you're a hardcore baseball fan, this is so weird though. This doesn't have to do with baseball though. To me, that's where the obsessive fandom is like, dude, calm down. What are you going to get? His underwear or something. How personal do you need to get to these sports stars? Not only that, too. It doesn't even display well. So I'm guilty of like, you know, signed jerseys and stuff like that hanging up in my mouth. But I mean, that looks cool on the wall. You know what I'm saying? It's decorative. It's not like Dennis Robinson's sock. This is sock. You know, Mike Tyson's Q-tip. So Mickey Mannell is the most expensive, right? Oh, it was? Yeah, yeah. It's the record. What was Ty Cobb's for? Actually, let's look up Ty Cobb. When did he play? It was in the early 1900s. Wow. You know what's crazy about baseball back then? I'm not a huge, obviously I don't know a lot about sports, but I do know this. Back in those days, those guys smoked and drank. Oh, they just, they didn't really crack. Yeah, they didn't work out. People remember professional sports back then. You couldn't make any money doing it. So everybody still, you had to, it was like a pickup game. It would be like us playing softball. You still have a real job while everybody drinks, smokes and plays softball. So like you didn't take it seriously like a professional. Wow. Okay. So he was, wow, look at that. He hit 320 or better for 22 consecutive seasons. That's pretty damn good. That's crazy. So Ty Cobb is actually quite a bit before him. Oh yeah. He was 1907 and 1915. I didn't realize how far before. So, wow. So okay. So with football back in the days, did each player play both offense and defense? Was that originally how it was played? Yes. Yeah. What do they call it? Iron man? Or am I making up a word? What's the word for that kind of style of football? I don't know about that. Both ways. What did you say? High school, they still do that. Both ways, but. Like in high school, that's still common. Yeah. I don't know if you have players that do that. You only have like 23 guys. Yeah. So in high school, that's still really common. That's still really common in high school. You play multiple positions. That's when you're really depleted. Yeah. Your program is really depleted and you only have so many people showing up. It's not your college. College is when you. Yeah. I played both ways for a while. It was my JV year. Was that exhausting? I didn't know that. Oh yeah. Dude, it was brutal. What did you play on offense? I played guard and a little bit of. You did guard? Yeah. Really? Yeah. I hated it. I never really put. You just wanted to hit people. Yeah. Just hit people. And so like during practice for the most part, I would like wait and then they'd finally let me just be on scout D and I go against the first team offense and bang them up, you know, because it was just, I don't know why, but it just for some reason. I was only there literally to hit people. I was just had this like. You're like, I don't know what we're always plays and calls and fucking. Yeah. I'm like, it was a little fancy. Justin found a pass. Just tell me who to hit. Yeah. How can I smash people? I was like water boy out there. Just run as hard as I could and smash your face. Wow. Hey, did you guys hear? Do you guys know who Bill Pearl is? Powerlifter guy? No, bodybuilder. Doug, look him up. Oh, right. So I want you guys to look at this bodybuilder because he was this was before. I need the one with the round barbell. No, no, no, no. You're thinking Eugene sound out. Okay. So Bill Pearl was one of the bodybuilders that inspired Arnold Schwarzenegger. Was he a black guy? That's how. No, Native American and white. Okay. So look at some of his old pictures, Doug, where he's flexing. That one in the middle there in color. Cause that one on the very left is when he was in his 50s. But look at the size of this guy back in. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there was a color picture that you could really see. That one right there. He looks incredible. The middle, that middle one right there. Okay. So his waist and his chest and shoulder. Yes. What years was he bodybuilding? 1975. No, no, no, no. He was, I mean he was in the 70s when he was older, but I'm talking about during his prime. That one right there. Look, go down. Keep going. There you go on the very left. I mean, look at this guy. He was a beat. 1967. So that's towards the end of his career. So 50s and 60s was Bill Pearl. And this is when, I mean, they either took a little bit of steroids or no steroids, 20 something inch arms. I mean, this guy was incredible. So strong. I think he was one of the first bodybuilders bench press. I want to say 500 pounds. Anyway, he just passed away. 91 years old. Oh, he did it. Yeah. 91, huh? He was an icon. This is like a big time bodybuilding icon. One of the greatest of the. So when you see someone like that and he made it all the way to 91, probably relatively healthy dude. I think he died at Parkinson's actually. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So do you think a lot of these early deaths that we see in bodybuilding, do you think a lot of it's contributed to all the drug? To the ones that you start to see, because you don't see that with bodybuilders from the, you don't see that from bodybuilders up until the 80s. There was one that got to the 90s. We have more 80s and 90s guys dying, or more 90s and 2000s guys dying than we have like 70s and 80s guys going around. Yeah. Like guys from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, typically make it to their late 70s, early 80s, or beyond. The 90s is when it got really crazy with the drugs and stuff. So I have to assume that's probably what's going on. Now, people like, what's his name? Derek from More Place More Dates. I really like a lot of his content he does. He tends to defend the anabolic and would probably say that it's less due to the actual anabolic and more due to just the stress on the organs. Forcing the body to grow and probably, I mean, but that's an effect that they're looking for. Yeah. You know, it could be, but they don't just use, you know, anabolic steroids. No, they're using all kinds of different insulin and all kinds of different stuff. But I mean, we've got a lot of stuff on that and I feel like it's less about the drugs and it's more about the size of the body. It's almost like you're making your body... Presently pressing it instead of recovering. Yeah, think about the food you have to eat, how much you push your body. Yeah, it is interesting. I don't know because we have zero studies on those doses of anabolics. The highest dose study that we have was on testosterone and it went up as high as 600 milligrams, which is like a decent... Oh, that's a big dose. You know, that's a decent bodybuilder beginner. That's not a pro bodybuilder dose, but like a beginner, you know, what a guy may take when he first starts or whatever his bodybuilder. And in that they showed it was pretty safe. But these guys are taking all kinds of other shit, not just testosterone, but a bunch of other things. So this is old news, but it's not like old, cool sports news or anything, but you guys remember the sex tape from Kim Kardashian back in the day, with what's his name, Ray J. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess he came out in the news recently and was like, he's talking about Chris, I guess is her mom, that he was saying that she had to have gone through and watched like multiple sex tapes between them to decide which one to leak and then like pass it on to Vivid. So she was part of it? Yes. Does he have evidence? Because this is all like in the period, like she wasn't really well known. She was like kind of like Paris Hilton sidekick back in the day because you brought her up the other day and like how this billionaire, she's just crushing. But that's how she got her start. But that's like how she got her start was like the notoriety because Ray J. is a big name back then, I guess. Well, wasn't there like a little moment there where a lot like after Paris Hilton some of that where people saw that as a strategy, both Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson, and I mean a lot of people became famous after their sex tape. Wasn't that kind of like a... I think she probably started that trend, right? Yeah, like I thought I heard that. It stopped working though, right? I think everybody got sick of it. Hulk Hogan has a sex tape, that's all. Yeah. Screech had one. It was all... I watched it. It was all... I'm just kidding. Can you imagine? I mean, there was like a good like 10-year run there. That was like part of the formula was like go ahead and leak one of your sex tapes and you'll be embarrassed for a week but then it'll get you all this reality. So the story is that the mom did it on purpose to get her daughter, her start. Oh my God, how twisted would you be? Like how creepy your mom's like going through. Like, I don't know, this one's not good lighting. They're shrewd, the mom is shrewd business person and you could tell that's like one of her main values, right? So would she do that? I feel like I'm not surprised by it. She's a business genius. Oh really? She's the mastermind behind that whole thing. She's managed all the kids. Oh, I didn't know that. I haven't watched a whole Kardashian show. You don't have to watch. I don't. Like I've seen clips, that's all I need. Don't lie. Don't lie. Who me? I never watched it. What's all her name, so? I don't even know. My wife loves Kardashian. Oh, that's an easy default right there. I never watched it. I leave the room. I leave the room. We're just watching the dishes. No, no, no, no. I don't care. Listen, I would say if I watched it, I don't care. But I do know through my wife, because she knows everything about them, she loves them, is the mom, is like manages them and is like huge. It's like the business genius. You guys just reminded me of something I actually didn't even have in my nose. Doug, could you help me out here? There is a Netflix show. It's brand new. It's a real estate. Basically, they are completely ripping off of the sharks, shark tank. Oh, yeah. But it's with real estate. And they have four real estate moguls. And it's literally a bite off a shark tank. They set them up where there's all four like that. They pre-interview the home seller, and then the home seller comes in, and then they basically are bidding on the house. They have a number they want. They go back and forth. We're going to set up for them. Let's go buy my house. Dude, so not selling sunset. No, it's said buy my house. Yeah, buy my house. Where did you see it? It was when Doug went off images, Doug. Yeah, yeah. It's buy my house. So you have to present your house to them, and then they give you offers on it? Yes, yes. So really cool show. Okay, first of all, it's not as good as shark tank. I like shark tank better from, but because I'm so into the real estate game right now, what I love about it is they actually, obviously they have curated some of the better areas for investment properties because these are all real estate investors. There's a CEO of Redfin. There's like an ex-NFL guy. And then there's like these two girls that are both like big powerhouse investors. And they basically go back and forth. They try and do the cheesy, you know, talking shit to each other like shark tank and all that stuff like that. But what's really good is they actually take homes in these areas that I've already researched. So I'm digging that. Oh, so you can, but now the price is what you would like to see in that market or are they just... Totally. I mean, what I love to do, like Katrina was watching it with me. And so I'll be like, oh, that house is 740 and see how close I am. Like I've been like almost dead on. Really? Yeah, yeah. Oh, good for you. Yeah, yeah. She's like, damn. How bad do you want to be on a show like that? I do. I do. So it's cool. So if you're into that stuff, I enjoy that. I enjoy. And there's a couple of areas now that have actually prompted me to go and do more research on because they weren't on my radar. So some of these little towns, I had already been on the pulse of that and already looking up stuff for us. But then other ones popped up and I'm like, oh, this is cool. So now I can find some. Oh, hey, I want to ask you, do you give Max the Paleo Valley Meat Sticks? Does he eat those? I have. I have. Yeah, we're all out though. We haven't had any. They haven't sent us in a while. So it's one of the few, I mean products or supplements or whatever that we have, food products. My kids fight over. Yeah. They fight over. I bring some home to my kids all the time. They love the garlic ones, those purple ones. Yeah, both my daughter and my son fight over them and they take them to school. So you know what, Max will actually eat the jalapeno ones. Really? My son likes like spicy stuff. They're not that spicy though. I mean, yeah, but for a kid. You're right. Spicy, spicy to my son. I've shared my jalapeno chip with him. I've had like sriracha on like my meals. Really? Yeah, and Katrina's like, don't give it to him. Hold on. Katrina doesn't even like spicy food. No, she doesn't. Does anyone in her family like spicy food? Her mom a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, her mom a little bit. I probably like the spicy food. Have you tried the spicy sauce that Andrew brought and has in the background? No, he's like real Mexican dude. I'm like, I'm part Mexican. Bro, that is some, that is not. Authentic. He's too Mexican for me. That's hot, dude. Yeah, they probably use like the real, like real spicy peppers. It's good though. I love spiciness, but I don't love what it does to me. I don't like it to ruin my day. Like I really like, Like I like spicy, but I don't like to be like the rest. We're like my nose to get running from it. I don't mind that. I was like Widowmaker ones. The, I was watching a show. Ghost peppers. Yeah. Ghost peppers and like they, they have like weird like hybrids now that they've made that are just like so incredibly hot. You can't, like it's a badge of honor. Have you seen the video where there's these two girls and they look like they're teenage girls? Two girls in a cup? No. Jesus. Please. Please don't Google that. Yeah. Don't ever look that up. Is that still on the internet? I have no idea. Look it up. Can you type that out? No. I refuse. So anyway, this, these is two girls that are like, I don't know like teenage girls and they think it's going to be funny to eat these super hot, dangerous, I don't know if they are ghost peppers or whatever on camera. And they're on camera. And they're on camera. And then they start losing their shit and they start crying. One of them runs out, the mom comes in, the camera's still rolling. Mom comes in, why did you guys fucking do this? One of them's on the floor. Throw it up. The mom's like spraying water to her face. It's hilarious. Yeah. It's so funny. What is, so isn't it milk? They say to drink in that situation. I've heard. Is it milk or you eat bread or? Milk. No, milk is the base. Right? Maybe. I think milk is the, I figured Doug would know this. Water is not good. I think, right? Do you know what milk does help? If your eyes, right? That's what they call some of them. Oh yeah. If your eyes burn from chlorine, milk solves that right away. Really? Yeah. My son went on. Yes. Oh, weird. I didn't know that. My oldest went on a, like a science camp. Like actually drop it in. Yes. He went in the science camp and they were swimming in the pool. I guess there's too much chlorine in there. And his eyes were so red and itchy. And he's like, I can barely see or whatever. And the counselor just poured milk in his eyes. Like regular, like red eyes. Like if you have red eyes and you took like clear eyes. I don't know. I think it has to do with chlorine. I'm not sure though. The next time I get really high. Put your stones out there. Just put, just pour some milk in there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what's the one when I smoke a little too much and I get like that bloodshot look and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. We'll film Adam pouring milk out his face. Do it slow motion. I'll report back if it works or not. All right. Hey, one more thing. That's a slightly controversial. Sorry, Doug. I got to bring this up. Yeah. Okay. So, the doctor's office has a policy assisted suicide. Right? So if you're super ill or whatever. It's legal there where the doctors will come and inject you with a lethal dose of anesthesia. Go to sleep. Never wake up. Now, do you have to use an Asia? Do you have to put that or on like a will or whatever I think you have to authorize this? But check this out. There's a new addition. It's like the whole doctor, Kvorkian controversy a long time ago. So here's the, here's the new addition. Now, I'm going to talk about some of the things that are going to happen to these patients, which I think is terrible because if, imagine the amount of severely depressed people. Yeah. Who now are like, I can go and just fall asleep and never wake up and who are going to take advantage of this particular system. I read that and I said, I can't believe they're going to do assisted suicide for mentally ill. Wow. That is scary. That's great. I had to let that sink in. Terrible. Yeah, I don't know where I sit on it, dude. I mean, I've seen people that are mentally ill that have also come out of it and recovered. But at one point in their life, we're ready to take them out. I know somebody personally who didn't commit suicide because they were too afraid of the ways to commit suicide. Jumping off a building, shooting themselves, they just, it was, that was the hard part. Had they had access to go to a hospital, lay down, put you to sleep, never wake up, they would have done it. Now this person's very happy, they're married, they're spiritual. Wow, interesting. Yeah, dude. It's kind of wild. I read about that the other day and I'm like, I don't know if that's a good idea. I think there are a lot of controversy around it. Lots of controversy, a lot of controversy. So I don't know, maybe they're trying to save money. Dude, just kill them. And I mean, the thing is the explosion of depression and everything over the past couple of years, like it's, to me, that's even more alarming to now provide that as an all ulterior option. Well, imagine this, imagine this. Now, okay, so we're not going to go too crazy of this, but Canada is a state-funded healthcare system. Okay, so the government pays it, people pay taxes into it, government covers it. And as hospitals over there are trying to not spend money. Okay, so you have patients in there, someone's depressed or whatever, they're taking up a hospital bed. Maybe someone goes in there and says, hey, let's talk about some of your options. Oh my God, dude, that's so, you're so twisted. Do you see what I'm saying? That's so twisted. Cause you need another bed to come in, you're like, you know, have you ever thought about just, here's some of the options you have. Life kind of sucks for you when you think about it. It's your life, it's a decision you can totally make. That's so fucked up, bro. You know, and they're like, well, what's it gonna feel like? Oh, you go into a gentle sleep, and then you just- They're like selling it to them? Oh my God. That's what I'm saying, bro. Imagine if they actually get the hospital's get. I'm not for that at all. What if the hospitals get big money? What if the hospitals get, like they cost insurance- Well, that's what that money, they do save because now they're saving money on- Well, not only that, because they rotate and get a new bed in, but what if they also, the method cost $5,000 for insurance companies and your copay handles a hundred or whatever. Well, over there, it's single-payer, no insurance. The government covers it. Oh, okay. So maybe they do get more- That's what I'm saying. I'm saying the government pays the hospital $5,000 for the procedure or whatever inflated number they have. They open up a bed and they make money. Or the way I would think about it is they're looking at their medical costs and they're like, we can't afford this medical cost. People are waiting too long, it's single-payer, it's maybe whatever. And they're like, here's a great way to cut some costs. Offer assisted suicide. So good marketing for- I don't know. I don't know, that part is just all, that's part of the argument on one side of it. I just think that's crazy that you would mentally ill people, you'll do assisted suicide. You know how many mentally ill people will kill themselves if it's that easy? And it's a very moral, that's a moral issue. It's very problematic. You know, I know we were trying to wrap this up, but I actually, since you went down the controversial thing and you just reminded me something that I didn't know, I just saw a tweet that Dr. Cabral did and it said that 75% of the FDA funding comes from pharmaceutical companies. Did you know that? Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, he brought this up. Do you know how, you know, a majority- We've brought that up before? Yeah. Do you know a majority of people that work in the FDA used to work in the pharmaceutical industry and vice versa? I did know that. I've seen the charts of like the people that have the crossover, like how controversial that is. There's a lot of crossover, so that's kind of problematic. I think. Yeah, I know. We'll see what happens. Influence. Check this out, you're not what you eat, you are what you digest. Okay, so digestive enzymes are what break down your proteins, fats and carbohydrates. So your body can utilize them to build muscle and fuel your body for your workouts. Especially if you had a high protein diet, digestive enzymes can make the difference. They can help with bloating, digestive issues, and help you assimilate more of these incredible macronutrients, especially proteins. So you gotta go see this company called Buy Optimizers. They have a product called Mass Designs and it's specifically designed for people who are interested in performance, muscle building, and fat loss. By the way, if you go to their website, you can see a video of Mass Designs digesting or breaking down a piece of steak. It's really crazy and it's really cool. Go check this company out. Go to masszymes.com, that's M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S.com forward slash mind pump, and then use the code MINDPUMP10 for 10% off any order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Charles from California. Charles, what's happening, man? How can we help you? I'm great, thank you guys for having me. And I just wanna say that I really couldn't have discovered you guys without my girlfriend, so shout out to my girlfriend. She's been listening to you guys for over, I think, three and a half years now and forever changed just how I look at fitness. And so my first question is really about symmetry. I noticed that, for example, I think my body is out of symmetry and some of the clues that I've picked up lately was if I put on a specific type of shirt and I don't know exactly what kind of material it is, but I noticed that it would kind of go in one direction in the right side of my dominant body and it kind of tells me that it's pulling there more. Another part is probably when I'm in the middle of my workout and sometimes I will consciously feel the muscles kind of when I'm doing a barbell press, for example, no, I'm sorry, a barbell squats and I would notice that my bright dominant side would activate more than my left side. And so my question then becomes like, how can I measure if I am out of symmetry and how can I improve on that moving forward? So Charles, first thing we're going to need to do is if you could send a nude picture to Sal, his phone number is 408-765. Bro, that's half his number. Fill in the rest. Don't send me a nude. Yep, I've already seen it. You know, it's easy. Actually, well, relatively easy, unilateral training. Just start training one arm, one leg at a time, and this will tell you quite a bit. You'll be able to see right away which side is dominant, which side is more stability, which one has a greater range of motion, which side is stronger. That'll tell you right away. And I would do an entire focused workout plan on unilateral training. So Map Symmetry is a program that we have that does a lot of this. Most of the phases in Map Symmetry are unilateral and it's designed to help bring balance to people's body parts. And that balance does help people get stronger on bilateral exercises. So squats, deadlifts, bench presses, overhead presses. When you balance things out, you feel more stable, you feel more secure, you tend to be able to lift more weight. And the best way to measure this would just be your strength. Yeah, strength, stability. Like I noticed what I do, I can sometimes lift the same weight on both sides, but one side feels more stable than the other side. So there's still a discrepancy there. Yeah, if you really do notice like a visible discrepancy, like that's, it's gonna be even more glaring once you move over to unilateral training, which is gonna be great. Cause once you get that and regain that stability and go back to those bilateral type of movements, it's gonna impact it substantially. Yeah, so we'll send you a Map Symmetry. Do you have Map Symmetry, Charles? I don't. Okay, although it feels like your question was kind of trying to get that for free, I'll send it to you anyway. Well, I mean, I take it, it was offered. Also, go ahead, go ahead, Charles. No, I was just gonna say your other question is regards to do I think the Warriors are gonna win this year? And I absolutely, I think we're gonna win another championship. Oh, no, absolutely. Absolutely, that's why I'm representing right now. So I'm also from the Bay. So my second question is really more out of curiosity. Lately I've picked up just the ice bath kind of routine. I looked at, I keep forgetting his name. Iceman from YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, and I immediately felt the difference. But number one, I'm not entirely sure when is the right time for me to use that or is that something I could just even practice on a weekly basis? And on top of that, it was like just the other side of cryotherapy, just out of curiosity, I don't know anything about it. Like what's your opinion on that? So it's a two-part question. Ice bath is gonna give you more significant results than cryotherapy in my opinion. Best time to use it? Really it's the best, what you wanna look at are the times not to use it. I probably wouldn't do it right before going to bed and I probably wouldn't do it right after a workout. But before workouts or first thing in the morning or times when you need some energy, perfectly fine. And you can do it frequently. We just got one not long ago. We're actually waiting for Justin to hurry up and fix it, get going. This is coming. Yeah, I've actually, it's been driving me crazy because I actually wanna do it every single day before we podcast. So yeah, every day. I think there's tremendous benefits to you doing it every single day. I don't think there's necessarily a wrong way to do it, but to Sal's point, I think it's gonna be less beneficial going right before to bed because it'll probably wake you up, right? But you may be okay. So, and then the reason why he's telling you not afterwards is because there's benefits to inflammation, right? To send the signal to build muscle. And so you don't wanna dampen that signal right afterwards necessarily. But it doesn't mean it's wrong or bad to do it then. I think the most optimal time will be sometime early in the morning before your training session. Before workout, yeah. That's what I was gonna ask is that you primarily use it to kind of like get the energy up early in the morning? Yes, yes, it's almost a stimulant. How long do you usually stay? So we haven't started it yet, right? So I'll start in album because the other thing that the one we have, the cold plunge is the brand that we have. We can actually adjust the temperature. And so I think the recommendation, the first time you get in, I wanna say is like 55. Is that sound right, Justin? Like I think you started starting it off. You don't need to go like the coldest. You don't feel the freezing for you. Yeah, a lot of people try and go like from cold turkey never doing it. And then they go right into it as cold as they can for as long as they can. No, you just, you build up a tolerance for it. So one of the ways you can even start it before you get one of these plunges is just in your shower. I think that Sal talks about doing that. I do cold showers every day. And he also mentioned a cool little hack too. If you don't wanna fully immerse, like you can dunk your head under there and get like a similar effect in terms of like that exhilarating kind of a stimulant effect to that as well. So if you just do your head and you dunk it in there a bit, it has benefit to it as well. So yeah, start off at a warmer temperature. Start with a short period of time, say a minute to two minutes. And work up to. And work up. Work up to where maybe you can sit in it as cold as possible for five minutes. I think that's plenty of great benefits from that. Perfect. Well, thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the time. And honestly, these were the questions that's kind of been bugging me. And I got the answers now. And thank you. You got it, man. Tell your girlfriend we said hi. Thank you, appreciate that. And I'll be setting the new picture. So thank you, Charles. Appreciate it. We're looking forward to that. Usually that's an insult, right? Hey, tell your girlfriend I said hi. But she listened to the show. She recommended us. Yeah, you know what it feels like? It almost feels like if he called in and he's like, hey, guys, I'm trying to get more anabolic and increase my performance. Which programs you see later in it? I'm not going to OCR race, but I have no direction. And I want to get strong, but I like to split things. No, you know, when it comes to balance and unilateral training, there's so many benefits. And even if you work out a lot, you would be surprised. Doug just went through a whole cycle of map symmetry. And I was talking about it yesterday and asking him how he felt about it. And oh, maybe you can talk about here how you did not realize. Well, I didn't realize how horrible my balance was. Just doing like the single leg toe touches and the single leg Romanian deadlifts. Man, I was just falling over at first. But little by little, of course, I got a lot more balance. And then when you went to bilateral, that was the difference. Oh yeah, strong. Yeah, stable, right? Yeah, it makes a big difference. Our next caller is Mariah from Montana. Mariah, how can we help you? Hi guys. I wrote in because I recently did Dr. Cabral's heavy metal and complete Candida metabolic and vitamins test. And I actually did this because my boyfriend has always had got issues. So I was kind of doing it more to support him. But I actually came back that I have SIBO. And with that, they put me on a four month protocol. And what it kind of looks like, I don't know if you guys have had to do this because I know you've had Cabral, but you're allowed to have, so you have your shake in the morning and then for lunch you have a cup of protein and then two cups of vegetables and then same thing for dinner. My concern with this is just the lack of protein within all of this. And I know like initially, they don't want you to have like eggs, gluten, dairy, anything like that. That's not really for me, not a big deal. But just wondering, I guess on that protein side of things and working out like how to stay satiated through this process. And I will add like right now, I'm actually doing the seven day detox. And I haven't worked out in a week because I've done this a few times and I've just starved to death and it's been miserable. So I just kind of decreased my activity so I could make it through these first two days of fasting. Mariah, wait, you're doing a seven day detox and you're following Dr. Stephen Cabral's recommendation or are you just following his recommendation? Just his recommendation and it starts with the detox and then it moves into that SIBO. Got it, got it. Okay, so I'm sure you probably looked up SIBO and what that all is, but for the audience it's small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and it can cause symptoms in people. Some are obvious like digestive issues, some are not so obvious, sleep disturbances, inflammation, skin issues. You can have just mood issues. It can cause stuff in the body. When treating your body to improve its health, that is a priority over trying to improve athletic performance, strength, muscle and fat loss. Now you are going to notice improvements in those things after you finish this protocol because you're gonna be getting healthier. So if you were my client, I would say listen to the team that Dr. Cabral is working with, follow their advice after you're done with that and you have successfully treated your SIBO, then we can move into a different protocol, maybe one where you're focused more on muscle building or fat loss or performance or whatever other goals you may have. But in the time being, I would just follow their advice to a T, that's their doctors, that's why you hired them, so I would just stick to that. Yeah, I like this question because I can see how it can get confusing, especially if you have listened to our show for a long time, you hear us preaching about most people under your protein and it's so important and balancing all the macros out and we continually push strength training and then you have someone like this who's telling you to go through this detox, you're gonna be kind of lower protein, lower calorie, and it seems like it's conflicting information, but it's not. You're an exception to the rule here, like to Sal's point, just to piggyback off of it, your priority right now is not building muscle, it's not fat loss, is to get your body as healthy and as optimal as possible. And it may feel like you're taking a step back or two towards your body composition or your performance goals, but you're going to reach those goals even faster and have an easier time sustaining it after you go through this protocol. So it's well worth it, even though it may feel challenging and frustrating right now and seem like you're contradicting some of the things that you've heard us say, but I'm with Sal 100%, in this case I would defer to, you follow what Dr. Cabral is saying right now, he's far better at helping you with something like this than I am. Yeah, and keep in mind the first, sometimes week or two weeks of a SIBO protocol, you may actually start to feel a little worse first because of what's known as diath. So as you're killing lots of this bacterial overgrowth, they can produce kind of toxic byproducts. You may actually feel, you may actually feel worse for the first week or two before you start to feel better. So kind of hanging in there. And I know this, I've done SIBO protocols, I've done three of them in the past. And each time the first, for me it was like the first like four or five days where I just kind of feel worse. And then I start to feel much better. Stomach pains. And I've done it before and it was like, it was headaches and kind of stomach pains and things that you kind of work your way through. But yeah, on the other end of it, obviously it was much better. Out of curiosity, did you have any symptoms that you've identified that could be related to SIBO? Not at all, actually. I eat eggs, I eat gluten, I dairy like everything. I actually own chickens. So I haven't noticed anything. I don't, I would say like my one thing is like, I got a new job in the last year. And so my stress level is just through the roof because we're about to go live on some new software. But other than that, and that was a lot of the markers is just like stress level, but I think it's contributing to my gut levels as well. And yeah, other than that, I don't know, I feel fine. And I was a little surprised. Interesting. Well, it'd be interesting to see what happens afterwards. I had a friend of mine that tested just like you did, just general testing, treated herself for SIBO and like lost a lot of water rate. Like she didn't realize that she was inflamed until after she was done. So I'd be interested to see what your experience is at the end of that four months. Yeah, definitely. Well, and it'll be helpful cause actually my boyfriend, he also came back which we expected it. We expected him to come back with SIBO as well. So, I mean, at least I have someone doing it with me because of the way I feel. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks for calling in, Mariah. Yeah, thanks guys. Appreciate it. Did you guys know that I believe I read this, maybe Doug can look this up while I'm talking here, just to fact check me. But I think SIBO can actually be transferred between partners. It can be sexually through sexual contact. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. I know we share a lot of bacteria. It's just kind of inevitable when you're that close proximity. Is that how Justin got it? Maybe from you? Yeah, definitely. That one trip to Austin. Oh, that, that was very specific. That was very specific. Justin. I remember it like yesterday. You know what she said? You know what she said? I farted on your sandwich that's why. Give me some SIBO. I thought that tasted funny. You know what she said though, I think that's an interesting one and saw you're kind of alluded to it is that, you know, a lot of times you don't think anything is wrong because your body is just amazing at being able to adapt. Or you could even just be used to. You know what I mean? Like you've adapted to all these foods and it's in your normal. And so you don't think it's affecting you negatively and you don't know what feeling amazing feels like. So to you, you feel good. That's how I always feel. I feel good, so I don't feel bad until you do something like this and then it changes and you go, oh my God, this is what, this is what good should feel like. Yeah, yeah, it's hard, you know. I have family members that are like, you know, I feel fine, I don't need to, you know, work out. I have lots of energy. And then I, you know, convince them to start doing a little exercise. They go, whoa, I feel a lot better. I say, well, you hadn't done anything for decades. You were used to your state of being. Our next caller is Joe from Utah. Joe, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, I appreciate taking the time. You got it. Yeah, man. Awesome. So my question is how do I program exercises to strengthen my lower back and core? I tweaked my back a couple of years ago, deadlifting, and it's just never really been the same. So I've scaled back quite a few times, trying to focus on form, mobility, and I don't really feel any pain while I lift, but it's always just more than sore after or like the next day or even after things like yard work or like a pickup basketball game. And every once in a while, I feel like I tweak it again. Workout wise, I've done the RGB bundle. I've done that at bulk a second time with like some modifications that I thought would help. I did map suspension to try and help on stability, and I'm currently through anabolic again, I'm working through that backwards. I'm adding the Nobias six-pack app, like exercises in there to try and work on my core. And then I'm doing things from Prime Pro and things like BirdDuck at Camo, wall press, windmills before I deadlift, some ankle mobility before I squat. I'm not too great at doing trigger sessions or mobility days when the program calls for it, so I'm working on that. And then other than that, I'm 32 years old, six-four, about 255 pounds. I don't have forward shoulder, an anterior pelvic tilt, and poor ankle mobility from basketball and spraying in that a couple of times. Long story short, guys, I just want to bulletproof my back and my core and I'll do whatever you tell me to do. How often you golf? I never golf. Oh, you're not a golfer. I'm not a golfer. I suck at golf. Okay, I saw the shirt. I thought maybe you were a major golfer and I thought maybe it might be a QL thing and not enough rotational stuff in your training. Yeah, you're doing a lot of the right stuff, but I think you would probably benefit from a good unilateral training cycle. Like map symmetry, I think would probably benefit you. Like a full cycle of it, right? 12 weeks of mostly unilateral training. There's some bilateral stuff at the end there. And I would even maybe do two cycles of that before going back to the bilateral stuff. Sometimes when you run to these stubborn issues where you seem to feel like you're doing everything right, it still seems to tweak, can't figure out what's going on. Oftentimes there's an asymmetrical imbalance, there's a balance, imbalance, excuse me, between the left and right side, in either stability or control or something that's hard to notice or see unless you're working out and training with a really good trained professional who can see these things. So I would go unilateral for just a full workout cycle and then go back and see kind of how you feel. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned a lot of really good exercises in there that you're working on and addressing. One thing like hip bridges, but like that emphasis on like addressing your interior pelvic tilt and even like holding that isometric pose and really like emphasizing that at the top of the squeeze to just reinforce that and gain some strength and promote that there. But in terms of like the rotations that Adam kind of mentioned, like that's like the windmill and really focusing on that and maybe, you know, like some Turkish get up so we're getting everything kind of functioning and stabilizing you properly. There has to be some instability there. And so what Sal mentions in terms of the unilateral work is there's really nothing better than unilateral training for directly kind of pinpointing where that problem exists. And then we can really kind of zone in a little more effectively there and build strength. Yeah, Joe, this kind of happened to me relatively recently. I didn't hurt myself, but I had noticed that when I would deadlift and squat, relative, not even like max or super heavy, but relatively heavy, I kind of feel like my back was gonna give out or a little tweaky or I get a little more pain. I couldn't figure out the hell's going on. I feel like I have good technique in form. I've been doing these exercises forever. And so what I did is I stopped bilateral squatting and I stopped deadlifting for, I wanna say 12 weeks. And in that 12 week period, I did unilateral stuff for my lower body. So I did lunges, I did single leg deadlifts, I did Bulgarian split stance squats. I did, I pushed the sled, which isn't necessarily unilateral, but it's bilateral, but you're doing kind of unilateral movements each time, right? And I did that for about 12 weeks, went back to deadlifts and squats and lo and behold, I felt fine. So there was definitely something there. I couldn't pinpoint what the hell it was. I just had to start training unilateral. Now, when I went unilateral, there was definitely a difference. I could see the difference between right and left. And I said, okay, this must be it. And the reason why I had to stop deadlifting and squatting is because I'd gotten so good at squatting and deadlifting. Even with moderate weight, I just continued to strengthen whatever the problem was, right? So even if I stick to 300 or 400 pounds, I'm pulling or squatting, it's enough to keep that old signal alive. So I had to get rid of that old signal, go pure unilateral with some exercises. Then when I came back, I was like, oh, there it is. I'm a lot better. So I'll send you map symmetry if you don't have it. I feel like that'll be the perfect program. Even more detailed prescription, I would run map symmetry, I would do windmills, Turkish getup and sled, those three things, right? So those, I would follow symmetry pretty much to a tee and then those three movements, that would incorporate into my week, just practicing them. You're not trying to break any records or anything like that, just getting really good at a Turkish getup, getting really good at a windmill and pushing the sled. And all three of those aren't gonna tax the body that bad to where it's gonna, should impede the rest of your training routine, but I would follow symmetry and incorporate those three movements and get good at those three movements. I think that'll have tremendous benefit. Awesome. So your point, you're saying do those just throughout the day, on off days or? Yeah, it could be off days, it could be even on training days, like you could start off or even end your workout with Turkish getups on one day. And then another day, you end it on pushing the sled. And then another day, you start your workout with a windmill. You can build it into your routine, you could do it all by itself. I don't know if you have a single kettlebell or a weight like that that you could do at home, like I have a few kettlebells at my house. And so I, I've got a kettlebell I can do that with. Yeah, yeah. So you'll all do this. Like when I noticed this about myself, like I have a few, and I literally have them just for windmills. And I'm like, you know what? I need to incorporate that again into my routine. I just, I'll go in the garage and I'll just do a couple of sets on each side. And then that's all I do, you know? And just incorporate it into my routine a little bit like that. So it doesn't need to be like you have to build it in. I think so. I think just incorporating that with the benefits you're gonna get from symmetry, I think is gonna help you out tremendously. Awesome. Thanks guys. Thanks for calling in, man. Yeah, I appreciate it. You got a quick question. I'm trying to reverse diet and I'm wondering if around 400, 4,500 calories is sort of appropriate for my size to get to. I've never succeeded in cutting. And I think I'm just not, I'm so always hungry. I can't between weekends or I don't drink. Like I'm pretty dialed in sometimes, like throughout the week, weekends I get up into four or 5,000 calorie range. And I'm just wondering if I can get my metabolism up there constantly, if that would be where I need to shoot for to start a cut from. Well, you need to shoot for, I mean, that's an individual thing. You're 255 pounds, 6'4". You're a pretty big guy. 4,500 calories is a lot, even for a big guy like you. But if you have a really fast metabolism, like I know Adam would hit those numbers when he was training. He's got a really fast metabolism. And I don't think he got up to 255 pounds. So it depends on the individual. It depends how it makes you feel. So I can't really necessarily answer that, but you can aim for it and see what happens and see how you start to feel moving in that direction. You got to remember too, when it comes to reverse dieting, you got to build muscle along with that. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because the one thing I wanted to, you're kind of, they're not conflicting. And that necessarily can't do both at the same time. But at the beginning of the question is more about like bulletproofing your body and we're trying to give you exercises to balance you out and protect, like that's kind of the focus. Like if, and then if someone comes to me and says like, I want to get my metabolism roaring as much as possible. Well, we need to build as much muscle and strength as we possibly can. And they're not necessarily aligned goals. So per se, right? So I mean. That's, I think I've been fighting with that a little bit. Yeah. So, and you, that's a normal feeling because you're kind of getting pulled in two directions there. Like one thing, one, one part of you is telling you, hey, I should take care of my body, which actually would probably be conducive to lean out a little bit and drop your calories and then do this map symmetry like we're saying. And then the other side of you is like, man, I want to, you know, get my metabolism up to 45, which is totally obtainable for your size. I mean, I was up over 5,000 calories at 230 pounds. So it's definitely obtainable for you to do and not an unrealistic goal to do that. But I also was training like an animal. I mean, I was training seven days a week intensely for competing and walking 20,000 steps a day. So I was doing a lot of activity in addition to that. And I had a lot of muscle mass to ramp that metabolism up to that point. So, and I wasn't focused on rehabbing, taking good care of my body. I was solely focused on building a metabolism, getting as jacked as I could and getting on stage. And so, you know, just keep that in mind that if you're being pulled in those two directions, they both don't necessarily serve each other the best. Awesome, that helps. Thank you. You got it, Joe. Thanks for calling in. I appreciate it. Thank you. No problem. When people say I train like an animal, I just picture like the lifting weights with their teeth. Ah! That guy's crazy. Yeah, the, the, this isn't super common. Usually when someone's, you know, hurts himself repeatedly, it's more obvious. But I mean, he's saying all the right stuff. He's doing all the right stuff. And he's a big guy, probably pretty strong. These are the times when I say, well, for the time being, avoid the exercises that are causing the problem. Let's focus on these other movements, unilateral in his case, build that up and then go back to those favorite movements and see how you feel. It worked for me. It worked for me, but it took me, I want to say eight to 12 weeks that when I wasn't, I didn't deadlift or squat at all. Dude, what did we do before we had symmetry? It's like, how did we suggest it? We would say, you would just say unilateral training. No, we would. And they'll be like, cool, I'll figure this out. Now we have it all programmed out. Yeah, the irony of how long it took to create that program. We should have created a long time. That was a good idea you came up with. It was, it was yours, wasn't it? Are you giving me credit finally? Yeah, on camera. No, I feel comfortable. I think the most important thing is to comment on what we ended that with talking to him about because I think this happens a lot. Like how often do we get these callers? And they always got like two questions. And a lot of times I feel like the two things they want to do are like competing things. And it's not- Not necessarily competing. Not necessarily. I mean, if you're chasing size and strength and you're also trying to balance out, the mentality is a little- It's totally different. It doesn't match up, yeah. It's totally different. And that's why I wanted to give him the analogy of like when I was trying to get my mentality, I was not trying to take care of my body. I was 100% focused on aesthetics, ramping my metabolism up, looking a certain way. And performance. Yeah, and then when I went to the shift of, okay, it's time to increase my squat depth and work on my ankle mobility. It's like I completely, and I was not thinking, I was not gonna have the most roaring metabolism at that time. I knew that I was inevitably probably going to lose a little bit of muscle mass along the way. Like that's just part of the kind of the process because your mentality has to shift, so. Our next caller's John from DC. John, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Thank you, John, so much for your time. Really appreciate what you do. And thank you for bringing the intelligent, thoughtful commentary on fitness and health. Really appreciate it. Thank you, awesome. Also, I extend thanks to Doug in your entire month, my pump team for supporting the show. I don't think they get enough love, but I wanted to say that as well. Give Doug some love. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. So now I wanna be quick. My question to you is regarding my family and my kids. My 13 year old son has approached me about lifting weights. And I have four kids from ages ranging from 13 to seven. And I've been thinking about how do I approach structuring a fitness regiment or even thinking about big rocks for things that need to be accomplished at earlier ages before they actually start lifting weights? And we'll let your thoughts on how do I think about introducing either weights or introducing calisthenics or et cetera to my kids at different ages. If you were to structure sort of a program running from ages seven through high school, what would you start with and then what would you kind of progress towards? Oh gosh. With the ages that you just gave us, body weight, close chain movements would be where I'd start. So I don't care if they're- Playful movements. Yeah, I don't care if you're 13 or seven. Now, once you get to like 17, 18, 19, you can start with dumbbell, barbell movements. But even then close chain movements like push-ups and body weight squats and pull-ups and dips. So a great program for your kids that would be appropriate for all of your kids. So long as they do the exercises right and you watch them, make sure they don't do anything crazy would be map suspension. Map suspension would be great. It's all body weight, it's all body control. And once they run through a cycle of that, you're a 13-year-old in particular, once they run through a cycle of map suspension, then I'd put them on something like maybe maps resistance or even pre-phase of maps anabolic so long as their movement is good and monitor their form and technique and make sure that it's all form and technique focused. And that's it. But they're all of them, strength training is appropriate for all ages. It's not, it's only dangerous if you do it wrong. It's only dangerous if you're reckless. Otherwise it'll benefit all of their movement, their health. Gymnastics, for example, is phenomenal, especially for your youngest or seven-year-old. Gymnastics right now would have so much carryover for the rest of the life. Well, the reason why this question is a little difficult to answer with like really good prescription from us is because I've seen seven to 13-year-olds that just, they just have this ability to put, you as a dad, you show them a proper push-up. And they do it. They do it like two or three times and then all of a sudden they can do it. They can model it to a T. And then I've seen other 13-year-olds, you show them time and they are just, hips are all over the place, they're dipping down. I mean, they just look like an absolute mess. And so those two people, those two different scenarios, I can progress them completely different. I mean, if I got a kid who I can teach mechanics to and I can see that they can emulate it relatively quick, right, almost perfect, right? They don't have to be perfect, but they can get it down pretty damn well, pretty fast. I can really progress that kid to getting them to barbells and dumbbells relatively quick. But then if I have a kid who is just an absolute disaster and all over the place, I would probably stick to a lot of body weight movements for a long time until I can get over that place. I mean, you're gonna see that all the way up to the high school level I'm finding out. So that's just one of those things that call it like the, you gotta structure something. If I'm creating something for a group of kids, it's like I gotta consider the baby draft, the one that's like all over the place. But yeah, in terms of those age spans, you're gonna get a wide variety of abilities. And for the most part, in the beginning, like the biggest concern is for them to understand how to control their body and how to be able to stabilize and be able to, you know, go through these movements with intention. So to create just an environment for them that they want to participate in, I think is the biggest thing. And so if that's, you know, some kind of a structured sport or something where, you know, you guys do it as a family, like you're just doing a workout and they kind of like watch and wanna try something. Like that's kinda how I approached it with my kids and then, you know, created things outside for them to climb. I think climbing is a very valuable way to introduce a lot of control and strength and demand in that regard and understanding their body and control. And then, you know, progressively kind of introduce them to other types of like suspension is a good one just because it does really force the issue of balance and stability and control and strength. And then, you know, from there, it's just kind of one of those things, how much interest they have is how much I then start to incorporate, you know, the next sort of layer to that in terms of like going from there to now, can they maintain a position and then also can I load that position? So that's sort of like just this constant progressive way of looking at where their abilities are and how I can match it. I really love Sal's recommendation with the suspension trainer. Cause you really could do, you could do suspension, you could do starter, you could do anywhere. They all could kind of fit in that category, but I really like suspension trainer since you have all different age groups and you can easily progress it or regress it with one tool. Just by their stepping their feet away or closer to the wall, it makes the exercise that much more challenging. I think the thing that you don't want to do that I think some parents do is they overcomplicate it. I literally am gonna do a push, a pull, a squat and maybe a handstand. Those are, that's it. Those four things. If I can get my kid to do like a pushup, a body row, a balance on their hands and do some squat, like body weight. Yeah, either, yeah, split stance squats or bilateral squats or eventually, you know, with the assistance of the suspension, get him to do a single leg squat. Like man, those four movements right there get really good at those four movements. And with the suspension trainer, you can progress it by making it more challenging where you put, I mean, that is. It's also fun. You leave the suspension trainer up and just watch your kids walk by it and mess around with it and practice exercises. But I'm gonna send that program to you if you don't have it. Cause I think that would be perfect. Oh, I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, John. My pleasure. Yeah, I remember, I remember first getting into strength training, how prevalent the myth was that strength training would stunt my growth. Yeah. I remember my mom being, oh, you're gonna stunt your growth and you're gonna damage your growth plates. And, you know, of course I, not knowing if it was true or false and give a, I didn't care. I was like, I'm gonna work out anyway. And now we know. That's what muscle, I don't care if I'm short. Yeah, but now we know, luckily I have 14, I was already pretty tall, but no, now we know it's, that's a total myth. I mean, to damage growth plates, you would have to load a kid to the point where they can't lift the weight anymore. They have to hurt themselves. So, but it's very beneficial. And body control is very important for little kids. Like being able to do strength training, but with their body. Cause it gives them such good body awareness. Yeah. And to that point of the myth, I was like, all apprehensive to introduce kids to like compound lifts and things like that. But, you know, like if they learn really early how to master that technique and the mechanics of it, it really not loading it specifically, but having them go through that and you're teaching it, that's something they can build upon the rest of their life. Totally. And it's a skill that they can acquire young, which is great. It's just really about how you introduce it and you teach it properly. Completely. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. This one's really important and that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps, if you compared that person to a person who did bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and then three or four weeks of let's say 15 to 20 reps and then they'll throw in some supersets. At the end of that year, you're gonna see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury. That's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.