 The National Working Committee of the People's Democratic Party, PDP, has declared in all anvoid the suspension of a former governor of Kaduna State, Amed Macarffy. Recall that the PDP Tundun Wada ward in Kaduna State had suspended Macarffy for alleged anti-party activities. In the suspension notice signed by the chairman, Tundun Wada ward said a Leeu, Saidua Leeu, I beg your pardon, and five others Macarffy was accused of being self-opininated and intolerant of dissenting views claiming that he was being engaged in anti-party activities. Now, reacting to the suspension in a new statement issued on Monday, May 15, 2023, a PDP spokesperson Debo Ologonba declared that the suspension is not anvoid with no effect. Joining us to discuss this is Osir Nenny. He's a PDP chyftyn. Osir, it's good to have you join us. Good evening. Good evening. Always a pleasure to be here. Yes. One would have thought that with the PDP in court trying to, in the words of your presidential candidate, get back his mandate. The drama must have subsided in every parts of the country, but unfortunately this is the case in Kaduna State. So I'll ask you, is the PDP in Kaduna on the brink? I think this is more an example of what happens when bad behaviour goes unpunished. We have seen political actors use this tactic. If you recall in the APC, they were worried of their national chairman by suspending him at the world level. They were worried of which is a condos, the PDP national chairman, by suspending him at the, or purporting to suspend him at the world level. Most recently, they tried to get rid of the PDP national chairman, are you, again with a world-level suspension backed by an expert in junction. You can see that Labour is also experiencing the same thing. When political actors disagree at the national level, because this tactic has been seen to work, you find these curious suspensions of national officers playing out. I think what frustrates me maybe more as the PDP member is, and every time I talk about our party's constitution, our constitution says only the National Executive Committee can discipline or suspend a member of the National Executive Committee. Macarffy qualifies to be a member of NEC on multiple levels. First of all, he's a former chairman that qualifies him. Second of all, he's a board of trustee member that also qualifies him. Third of all, he's a former governor that qualifies him. Fourth of all, he's a former senator. He's immune almost from any disciplinary action not taken by the NEC. And five gentlemen in his words cannot purport to suspending. I think what we will probably see play out is, again, you will see a court, you know, giving a court injunction, an expert emotion, restraining Macarffy from presenting himself as either a BOT member or a member of NEC, because, again, that tactic has been seen to be quite effective in Nigeria's political space. But the publicity circuit was absolutely correct. It's not recognized in our constitution. A ward cannot suspend a member of NEC, which Macarffy is. But Nigeria's political space is very curious. So it's interesting to see how it's played out. I just want to say, worthy of note in this conversation and similarities here, obviously, is saying the PDP is fond of leaving issues or matters arising instead of dealing with it. They let it slide and then, of course, it comes back to bite them. We've seen many people asking for the heads of Governor Wike, for the heads of the likes of the Governor of your state, even though the Governor's Forum is set to honour them, not just for what they've done in their state, but how they've been helpful in the party. But then there are those who are on the one side who are saying, these people have been involved in anti-party practices. Why are we applauding them instead of dealing with the problem that's at the root? So does the PDP have a problem with facing issues head on as opposed to sweeping it under the bed? So I'll speak to Mark Raffy's case first before I come to the national. Mark Raffy, like I said, was a former governor. In 2019, when he ran for the PDP's presidential ticket, actually worked on his campaign at the time. Our campaign to get the ticket was unsuccessful. But I can tell you that I interacted with him. And yes, he is very opinionated as I am, as are most members of the PDP, but he isn't a dictator. So when I read the reason for the suspension being that he's opinionated and he imposes his will and doesn't listen, that wasn't true. I was much younger in 2019 and we were the critical part of his campaign. And he did listen to us. And I have anecdotal testimonies of my personal experience and others with Mark Raffy. If you recall, he stepped into the gap when, as an interim caretaker chairman, when we were having problems within the PDP. And no one accused him of being a dictator at the time. But if you speak to anti-party activity, usually it plays out in election results. PDP won Cardinal State and Presidential elections. PDP delivered all three senatorial candidates at the judge concluded that senatorial election in 2023. We have 10 out of, I think, 16 House of Rep members, APC have four. I think some other parties have shared two among themselves. So if you look at electoral results, Mark Raffy won his district. He was running the first constituency that delivered our presidential candidates article in Mark Raffy local government era, even in Cardinal. So it's curious when you see the world accusing him of anti-party and working against the party when he was front and center and led the charge in Cardinal State to the point that Cardinal delivered one of the best electoral results for PDP in the just concluded 2023 election. So, again, I think it's just maybe state-level, sabre-rattling, or a disagreement with Mark Raffy as a mother person. And again, it's unfortunate to see them use this tactic, you know, instead of sitting down and resolving it like adults, they violate our constitution and put to suspend members that they cannot support, they cannot suspend. Taking it up to the national, and you did ask a very valid question about maybe the PDP and architectors, its own way was, maybe if we had stepped in and imposed some sanctions on candidates or members of the party and chieftains who were acting in a way a manner that was indefensible, maybe these types of things will not have played out. I think the national has decided to take a more consulatory approach. As you know, some members were suspended and their suspensions were reversed. I think the party recognises in its wisdom the party wants to sort of like put out an olive branch. And it's hoping that this olive branch is also met with good faith from people who have been actively and publicly working against the interests of the party. I don't know if it will work. I'm skeptical personally, I think bad behaviour shouldn't be rewarded or accommodated. But we are party members and if the national leadership of the party wants to take a more consulatory approach to resolving these issues, we'll see how it plays out. I don't think it will work, but time will tell. Let's talk about those who say the PDP is now a shadow of itself. Many pundits have said that the PDP might not stand the test after this election cycle and all of the tribunal rulings. But let's look at the new man at the airmore affairs. He's acting obviously. But what does he bring to the table and does he have the capacity to hold the party together? That's a really good question. I think National Chairman Damagun is an ambassador. So he's a diplomat. And I think regardless of whatever skill set he brings to the table, his ability or his grasp of diplomacy, I think coming into the party at this particular point where there are war infractions all over the country. You mentioned Wike, you mentioned Shea Mac in there for instance. I've seen them on your channel, helped by being with the APC president elect, even though we do have a case in court. I think Damagun believes that diplomacy might resolve this crisis. He does have the ability and the chops to push, pull it through if anyone can. The chairman and IU was a little bit more confrontational, a little bit more revolutionary because of his ideological background. But I think that's what he brings. I think he brings diplomacy to the table. Again, you know, I'm happy to say. What will diplomacy do? Because where the PDP is right now, I don't think, I don't know. I'm not a party man, but from someone who's looking from the outside in, what can diplomacy do? You have erring members who have been given a pat on the back and then they're saying, well we'll look into it. And then of course you have several other cracks within the party. There are people who feel that some other people are protected lambs or oxen. So again, I don't know where the place of diplomacy comes in here and how much weight it carries. So a lot of people don't realise that we are still in election season. And so the judicial challenge is just one arm. We had our campaigns, we had the elections. The judicial challenge is one the last leg of the electoral process. And so it's not done and done. We cannot, this is not the time for a post-mortem. I think we still need to keep a united house. That helps our court challenge, I think. You can see what's happening in Labour, for instance, where a new acting chairman is trying to appeal to their court case. So I think, again, we don't just have a presidential candidate that we are challenging. We don't just have a presidential candidate. We have a governorship petition that we want that are being challenged, or that we are challenging, as with the Senate, as with reps, even down to the houses above Henry. So we are still fully in election mode. And I think when you ask what can be done, I think we need to hold the party together. At least until every single electoral challenge is extinguished, and then there can and there should be a reckoning. But right now, I don't think it's the time for that, I reckon. May 29 is just around the corner, and that's inauguration day. And many, of course, are waiting to see what happens on inauguration day, but that day, obviously, is sacrificing whether we like it or not. Do you see people leaving the PDPs? They're going to be a criss-crossing, as usual, being that the APC's presidential candidate, who is now the president-elect, is on hand to become president May 29? So, first of all, I think the May 29 date is just a date. Again, we still have a challenge. We believe we won the election, and we are still up to date. Is it just a date? It's an inauguration day. A president will be sworn in, whether we like it or not. It's just a date. If this warning doesn't mean our challenge becomes moved or it's swept away, even though he has been sworn in, if the Supreme Court finally rose that Attico Abubakar would valiantly elected, Attico Abubakar would look at that point in time, become the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I think what is more important to me is, again, I don't want us to look at this thing as just a presidential election. We have governors that will be sworn in. We won a bunch of seats. We won an example, for instance, that we've never won before. Things are sort of like in classes, you know, 2019 elections and the state of play between Refugee and PNP. It's not very similar to the 2023 situation. There have been a lot more, a lot of gains and losses. Thankfully for us, Labour did make a lot of impact outside the presidential den that it did make. You know, so the balance of power still remains the same. Whether people will cross because the APC remains in power, I don't think so. And again, we are holding on to the hope that the Supreme Court will do the right thing in our eyes and rule that Attico Abubakar was valiantly elected. So I don't think you will see this tsunami of defections that you sort of like implied might happen. All right, Osir Aneni is a PDP chiftain. Always a pleasure to have you in the studio. Well, what becomes of your presidential candidates and all those who are challenging the president-elect's victory remains to be seen. We cannot preempt the tribunal, but we'll keep our fingers crossed. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much for being here. And that's the show tonight. Don't forget, you can always pick up on all our episodes, our previous episodes on Plus TV Africa, on our YouTube. Go subscribe and follow all our programs. I'm Mary Anna Cohn. I will see you tomorrow. Have a good evening.