 Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen before I call the meeting to order just wanted to let you know We're waiting for the vice chair to show up. We're expecting her any minute now And I'll wait a little bit longer for her and then get started. Thanks Okay, well, we still wait for vice chair Fennel to join us and she may any minute now We're gonna go ahead and get started with the February 5th meeting of the cultural heritage board of the city of Santa Rosa and Ask for a roll call, please Let the record reflect that all board members are present except for vice chair Fennel Okay, we have a printed Agenda and summary report here. I'm gonna ask that we make a couple of changes and interjections to it first thing I wanted to welcome a returning board member to the CHB appointed by councilmember Sawyer and Joining us today. Canopy Garrett welcome pleasure to meet you if you wanted to make any remarks or Say anything I wanted to give you the opportunity to do that, but thank you very much. It'll be interesting to be back and working with computers and In the council chambers, so thanks. I look forward to it Great. Thank you and just verifying with staff. There's no swearing in ceremony today or anything like that It's all been taken care of all right great and because of an intended abstention from the Substantive most substantive item item 6.1 Of one of our board members. I'm gonna ask if any board members object to reordering the agenda to put Board member reports and department reports department reports instead of items seven and eight move those two Could move that I had a public comment. Do I have anybody object to that? Staff any objection to that? Okay, we'll do that then All right next let's move to approval of minutes Wanted to make a comment briefly before we look at these four sets of minutes about the minutes approval process that When we are looking at a set of minutes to figure out whether they need corrections or whether to approve them it's What we're looking for mainly is to see that You know things that were expressed that were Significant are included and stated correctly and that the things that are in there are also stated correctly So it's more of an opportunity to look at Whether they are Accurate and complete rather than to clarify What could have been said at the time or to say something in addition or different And I think that we do a good job With that but just to keep make sure the process sticks to an approval process so with that Our first set is 2.1 October 2nd regular meeting board members any Corrections or comments regarding that set of minutes Okay, I'm seeing none. So those will stand as printed Next is 2.2 the October 2nd special joint designer view board cultural heritage board meeting Board members any comments or corrections regarding those minutes board member debaucher Sure, I just would do I'd like to abstain on the ones that I was not able to attend And I'm seeing no corrections or comments. So those will stand as printed as well next the October 16th joint DRB CHP meeting Board members any Corrections to those minutes board members Bakker, and I would be abstaining on this one as well All right, I'm seeing no comments. Those will stand as printed and finally the November 6th regular meeting minutes For the CHP meeting board members any corrections or comments I Wanted to just make a statement on page 5 regarding the paragraph summarizing board comments looks like these comments were sort of summaries of the board members comments one by one Just to correct that statement that Regarding the plan area Trying to relocate it here There's a clause that says Regarding the Roberts Road area the Roberts area will become an island and it would be overreached to include it in the plan area just a clarification that It was an expression that it may have been an oversight to include it in the plan area or a mistake to have included it but No, no objection to the fact that it is in the plan area or failure to recognize that it's in the plan area So just a tweak there any other comments or corrections Okay, those will stand as printed and we'll move to board business. I'm going to read the board statement of purpose The cultural heritage board shall consider the following matters standards guidelines and criteria to the extent applicable in Determining whether to grant or deny a permit Whether the proposed change is consistent or incompatible with the architectural period of the building whether the proposed change is consistent with or With any adjacent or nearby landmark structures or preservation district structures Whether the colors textures materials fenestration Decorative features and details proposed are consistent with the period and or are compatible with adjacent structures Whether the proposed change destroys or adversely affects an important architectural feature or features The secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings and such other matters Criteria and standards is maybe adopted by resolution of the cultural heritage board and Now I think with the reordered agenda. We're going to move to board member reports board members any reports. It's been quite a while since we met but and Not seeing any about board member Walker, please. So sorry about that. Yes. I do I have four items just to bring up to the board The first is partially a question for the staff. We had been working on the potential for Certified local government in past years. I don't know where our effort is I'm sorry. Let me move closer. Is that better? Okay, everybody's having a hard time hearing today In the past year and years we've been looking at trying to move forward with certified local government I'm hoping that we can keep that on the agenda as something that we could look into In the future with the chair's permission As he if the board has currently composed qualifies To pursue that that's item one item two is Many months ago when we last met It was brought up about possibly Putting together and that an award for a project for adaptive reuse here in the in the city There's a and the next item is Part of our mandate is to promote preservation in the community In doing so, I wonder if the board would be willing to consider in future meetings And with staff assistance and hopefully some budget Putting together an annual preservation award for projects of merit in the year to kind of keep that in front of our community And lastly since this is a board report and I'm reporting on the district that I'm Mentoring if you will or monitoring There is still considerable concern with the same rose district over the caritas Village project just to bring that back up again Those are my items. Thank you great and I Think just if I could ask staff to communicate with the board regarding Those first two Items that were mentioned by board member debacle maybe by email at some point before the next meeting and you know just whether we Will discuss those further get a further updated a meeting orally or an update with written communication whatever we think is appropriate and then you know interested to Pursue those further Great, okay. I'm gonna move on to public comment. It's encouraging That's with what's going on at the Iowa Democratic Party and in Congress that anybody has any faith in democracy anymore So thanks to all the members of the public for showing up, especially those who might not have had to This is public comment. It's a time for anybody who's here who wants to speak on a matter of interest to the cultural heritage board And I'll let Susie Murray You had reordered so that Department reports would come before public comment. I'm happy to wait. I blew right past this so we're going to Put a halt on democracy for the time being and we're gonna hear department reports, please Don't worry there. They're good reports So I just wanted to check in on the downtown plan. I got an update. We have completed a visual visit visual preference analysis survey that was up online got a fantastic response several hundred and The staff is expecting to bring that project EIR forward to this board probably some time in April That's still tentative, but that's something to look forward to and then the other Kind of tips and tricks that I want to throw out for y'all It's a common practice among a lot of our decision-making boards That if you're missing something or if you have a question about a staff report That you go ahead and ask the staff person and that practice The staff person will not only respond to you. They'll respond to the entire board That is super helpful if there's a plan sheet that's missing or there's a contradiction in the staff report It happens and that's a way to clarify it So it's a very least maybe we can get rid of that question before it gets to the meeting But it's better yet. We're prepared to answer it when we come forward So tips and tricks and that's all for staff report All right. Thanks very much Now in proper order we'll move on to public comments It's a time for any person who is here and wishes to speak to the board on a matter of interest to the board to do so We have Item 6.1 coming up the concept design review for the Living Roots Church. It's not a public hearing, but we will make available time After the applicants invited to give its presentation for any member of the public who's here to comment on that project to Approach the podiums and deliver comments regarding that project So I would ask for now that comments be limited to matters other than related to item 6.1 so with that I will open the public hearing and And seeing one gentleman if you'll state your name for the record and you'll have three minutes to make your remarks Thank you. I'll be brief. My name is Eric Frazier and I'm with the Greater Cherry Street neighborhood association Wanted to follow along on mr. Dubekker's comments about creating some sort of recognition for Historic renovations and I just wanted to add that the feedback that I've received is usually one Related to the expense of doing these projects and so it'd be helpful if there's some sort of component Not necessarily public funding. I don't think that's going to be happening but some sort of tie-in with Cloud fundraising or you know having that meaningful Beyond just the recognition because I think if From what I see in the historic districts Well, I what manifest needs to happen is that people take pride in these neighborhoods Even if they don't live in the neighborhoods they there's parking restrictions in the neighborhoods people park there They walk through there, of course, we want people to walk through and we want to foster an environment of property owners taking care of their properties, but The fact is that these structures are expensive to Rehabilitate and they're expensive to maintain and they're expensive to heat, but whatever everything's expensive so That I wanted to put as a bug in your ear just to see if there's some sort of synergy or opportunity that can come from that Thank you very much. I appreciate you Thank you very much. I Don't live in a historic district, but I live in a home that was built in 1938 and it is expensive to heat and it is small Board member debaker Thank You chair I just did want to respond briefly to the gentleman one item that is available now. We're very grateful the state Just a few months ago renewed the historic preservation tax credit We've been without it for a while. It's an excellent program It does help on rehabilitation and renovation works It's not an ongoing thing, but if you have a project it is a very definitely a useful benefit That's that is at least one thing that's available out there And I am not seeing any other person who is wishing to make a comment so I'm going to close the public comments and Going to move to any statements of abstention from board members board members any abstentions today board member muser Yes, even though I'm very excited about the project. I'd love to hear more about it I do have property at 545 Humboldt. I'm within 500 feet of the project. So I will have to abstain Okay, and that's the one abstention we have so before we move on to item 6.1 we'll give board member muser time to Exit the chamber Let's move to item 6.1 concept design review for a landmark alteration at the Living Roots Church in Parsonage at 801 Cherry Street and This afternoon mr. Triple will be giving the staff presentation and I'm not sure if there will be an applicant presentation but there there may well be and Mr. Triple if you'll take it away, please Thank You chair and then sending good afternoon members of the cultural heritage board today's project is a landmark concept review In advance or pre application Stage for a major landmark alteration permit for alterations to an existing two building religious facility Located at 801 Cherry Street alterations would include rehabilitation of the fire damage to story Parsonage and restoration of a church structure steeple So the project is located in central Santa Rosa in the northeast quadrant just off of College Street And here I wanted to show you the farmers the names addition plat because they're previously there been a bit of confusion about the the Composition of the parcel so the the church structure is addressed as 801 Cherry Street But then the Parsonage is addressed as 610 and 612 Orchard Street when you look at a current GIS map it would show as two separate parcels However, in fact those are assessors parcels and not legal parcels the actual legal parcel does extend from Cherry Street Back to the alleyway off of Orchard Street, and it is one parcel with two buildings on it I Should also note at this point in time that with your packets that were distributed The applicant has provided a design concept narrative as well as a concept plan set and a historic resources survey So for this concept review, we do have quite a bit of information in advance And then here just a quick zoom in on that legal parcel per the plat map So it is located just off College Street at the intersection of Cherry and Orchard Street's typical parcel similar to other parcels within the neighborhood of which Most of the neighborhood is the Cherry Street preservation district The general plan land use is low density residential and the zoning is r1 6 With the historic combining district added This is a continuation of a legal non-conforming use that has been in place for quite some time The Parsonage functioned as both a residence and a community meeting space for the church and Until the point at which it was damaged by fire in the mid-2000s. I believe Here we can see its location relative to the boundaries of the Cherry Street historic district the historic district or preservation district is the area that's filtered in in that kind of umber color and And then finally a contributors analysis the The yellow triangles show those properties Proximity to the the project site that are contributors to the establishment of the Cherry Street historic district and finally I am available for questions the applicant does have a Detailed presentation that they will be offering and so that will fill you in on a project specific details But certainly if you have any questions at this point in time, I'm happy to answer them Thank You mr. Triple board members any questions for staff before we hear from the applicant Okay We would love to hear the applicant presentation and feel just begin by stating your name for the record and then have at it Hi, my name is art Senna junior and I'm excited to share with you guys and partner My wife and I moved to Santa Rosa in 2012 fell in love with the city instantly and We moved here to start a church community and we we did that and have existed for a number of years and My heart for this city grew year after year and it was in 2016 We first were introduced to 801 Cherry Street and we tried to purchase the building, but couldn't get funded and then 2018 we started prayer walking around the property block and It was still for sale. It's been for sale ever since 2010 a year after the fire of the annex building and after prayer walking for two months Long story short. We were gifted the building for free and it was Definitely a blessing and so now my wife and I in our church family find ourselves in the heart of the city that we love and Immediately we we had plans to restore the burnt building and so God's been continuing to bring people to help that process and so here we are today and so the next photo shows the footprint of the two buildings on that parcel one's a sanctuary which were designed to restore the steeple and Change the platform and add a wheelchair access to The sanctuary and then the back building the annex building Want to rehabilitate that after the fire in 09 Here's a photo from 1909 the church was built in 1888 and this is what it looked like in that time frame. It was established By the German Episcopal Methodist Church to be exact they purchased the lot and built three years after they bought it and They existed there until 1942 when speaking German wasn't very popular anymore This is a picture a year before they transitioned to the next congregation that moved into that facility and this was done in 1941 You can see the steeple was trying to hang in there The next photo is a photo of the Parsonage behind that or what is currently burnt and this photo was taken in 2007 so two years before the fire and to give detail about that fire this is what it looked like just several months ago for nine years ten years actually that the neighbors were staring at this and The fire took place and arsonist went around and lit bombs in the trash cans and Just a as I go back so that patio cover They had the trash cans underneath that and it lit on fire They did that to seven different properties in the cherry district But this was the only one that did not have insurance to rebuild it and so the church had Do something with the building so they put it for sale and so from this point we had a neighborhood meeting and Invited the neighbors to be a part of the process of us restoring and In it there was a lot of interest of us to do something with it because they're tired of looking at that and So one of the a number of neighbors desired us to paint it or put some primer on that So we did that they provided Graciously the primer for us to do that project and we eventually got that that primer on the building To help with the look these photos are just details of the property at different views So the east-west view of the annex building and also the sanctuary or the chapel as we refer to it These are the elevation plans and in here you're going to notice. I want to just share the The Alteration there there used to be stairs so these are the future plans of what we desire to to do with the building and the the major change would be the in the Elevation the front elevation plan there was stairs of the annex building and we're shifting them to be on the side of the building Mainly for safety is my my wife and I will be living up there with our kids and Wanting to deter homeless from just kind of traveling up the stairs there and so that that change is there But you also I don't know if you could tell but you could see in the behind the Chapel is the added stair landing and Will chair access in the back of the chapel there and These are views of that elevation plan coming to life so to the left on the top would be what it used to look like before the fire and on the top on the right is what we hope to restore it to be and On the bottom is just different angles of the restoration and then the old photo from 1909 In the middle there on the bottom is a bigger picture a zoomed-in picture of the annex building and The chapel in the steeple there, and then this is what it looks like today that photo was taken this morning and What we hope it to look like after restoring that steeple and Here's some photos in regard to the floor plan and I'll speak a little bit to just the continued use if you look If you walk inside the burnt building in any of you guys if you're interested I'd love to show you the inside, but this is basically restoring it to use it for what it's been used for and The one ad is the ADU in the back or the top left there that rental unit to add housing for those in need whether it's widows or anybody in need of housing and As we were sharing this with our neighbors One neighbor came up afterwards and said I would love to put first dibs on that ADU. I'm living in 386 square feet and Would love that spot So and then you see the porch or the landing and the wheelchair access on this view as well This is the downstairs of the annex So it'll be a classroom usage and we hope to also use that space if there's a emergency or tragedy in the neighborhood And we can invite neighbors to to eat shower in that place in that space so That's that's there and the last photo is showing the Parsonage upstairs which it had in the past and will continue to use as a parsonage And that's it All right Excuse me. Thank you very much Board members any questions for the applicant and do you have any other members of your team that are with you today? Yeah, if you ask questions that I don't know our architects are here and Our associate pastor as well Great. Thank you Board members any questions for the applicant team at this time? Our members about her one quick question first personal love it The place needs it really bad very much like the general direction you're going This is a question is the ADA for the sanctuary area Has that been checked to see if you can bring it in through a back door or do you have to bring it in through the front? It was my first question better answered back here Hi, Mark Perry. I'm a historic architect and architectural historian and been consulting on this project And according to the California Historic Building could your ADU can be or your Accessibility can be at the side or rear. It's exactly in an appropriate position You don't have to make it go to the front as a matter of fact It's recommended not to the point of preservation is to preserve as much as possible the historic frontage And that's what's being done Thank you. I very much appreciate the pro a approach and especially using historic code for what it's intended to Board members any other questions right now for the applicant or staff I Would like to open it up for any members of the public who are here and who would wish to comment if anybody Is here wishing to make comments on this project all open the floor And if you'll just begin by stating your name for the record and you'll have three minutes to make your comments Yes, sir. Thank you. This is Eric Frazier again with a greater Cherry Street neighborhood association Art hats off to you. That was a fantastic presentation And we really also appreciate their deep dive in the historic records to come up with some Compelling information not just from our local library, but also tracking down Earlier congregations of that spot. I've created a treasure trove of information for our neighborhood It's totally appreciate that we also very much appreciate their cooperation with the neighborhood overall and Jumping to it with that primer. It's not obviously Intended to be a long-term solution, but he is right Looking at that structure for a number of years Was you know is quite wearing on the neighbors And of course it really warms my heart to see that their plans going forward So closely resemble what was originally built in that location I mean that really goes I think to the heart of historic preservation. So So all that's good. So I and the neighbors that I've spoken with Generally lend our support. I haven't heard I haven't heard anything different. Thank you very much. All right Thank You mr. Frazier Well, we'll Guess bring it back to the board now for either any final questions or for You know overall comments on the project and then if need be based on all the comments of the board members we can have some further discussions and any recommendations or Advice with regard to this project if it were to come before us in the future we can My apologies we can make sure it was reflected in the minutes to make sure the applicant has some clarity going forward on that Let me go ahead and start with Board Member debaucher. Do you want to kick us off? Thank you chair I guess I do have a couple of questions yet on the project again very positive overall view of it The basis that we decide on is not only based on the Secretary of Interior Standards and our own codes, but More generally is it more compatible with the neighborhood with what you're proposing than what's there now? I think that's a resounding yes Questions I have on it is the height limit Press staff can talk a little bit about the height limit for the neighborhood. Is that 35 feet the limit? Yes, the maximum height would be 35 feet and what's proposed is 62 Is that what I'm understanding For the steeple. Yes Yeah, such as a historic use that is something that we can do It's not normal, but yes Correct correct so cultural heritage board can't approve a height in excess of two stories or I Think it's 35 feet if I'm not Yeah, our restoration is one of the prime examples where we would go that way Next windows You have some wonderful magnificent historical windows in there. I hope they're going to be restored in place Rather than replaced particularly on the sanctuary building the church building What are the plans for the? personage and the adjacent garage on windows will they be replaced or what's the intent there a Number of the windows are broken and covered our ideas to Just put the windows right back the way They were Are you thinking of trying to put storm windows on to? Get better energy performance on those or just basically put them back exactly the way they are That's a great question Hello board. My name is Mike Andre titch. I'm the architect for the project working with mark Perry consultant first I wanted to thank you for your commitment to being on the Cultural heritage board mark was telling me a little bit about it and I appreciate your work The windows to answer your question. I'd say Probably three-quarters will be located in the exact same position Double hung is what's out there right now would sash. I would certainly like to upgrade To energy efficient windows to do a glazed but it's so important to keep the proportions and The look of what we're all used to out there. So Sort of a hybrid approach by three-quarters Replicating where the existing windows are and then a few moved around To the new location due to the rehabilitation of the structure for current day use Okay, thank you We'll leave comments on I was trying to get an idea of your intention first Garage doors could comment about the garage doors at all could you tell us a little bit what the intention is with those? Okay, there has never been any Off-street parking for the facility If we went back to the existing photographs, you'd see the quote garage area has two man doors to it right now I think art was working with Andrew on a solution and originally they were looking at requesting for parking spaces basically a tough nut to crack unless you were going to put parking underneath the covered porch area so the logical idea was to Put the two Andrew agreed that two spaces would be fine and We're showing the two garage doors in the obvious place to put them and The semi-arch to me the language of the original Gothic framed windows of the church introduce a curved shape if you will so it's it's not a push to Show the semi-arch there and that's basically how it came about we wanted to get some off-site parking and then have some architectural relation to the Curb forms of the church windows if you will Okay, finally the steeple It looks like I love the fact that yours. This is a restoration Not a rehabilitation correct on the steeple I just wanted to confirm it's the intention to put the steeple back exactly the way it was Rather than rehabilitation on the other parts of the building which allow more freedom Yes, yes, that's the total intent we have the photographs and I this is all modeled in a 3d program and I built a Perspective grid over the tower and check the heights to the best of my abilities and Really looking forward to the architectural detailing to make it easy to build, but it's a total restoration As best as we could do of what was built back in the day That makes it easier for us to approve the height. Thank you. Sure. Thank you any Other board member, I'm so sorry everybody any other board member wishing to Ask any questions based on board member debacle's questions or else I can continue on asking for general comments Okay, and Before I do that though vice chair Fennell has joined us we're on item 6.1 and Wanted to forge you the opportunity to ask any staff or applicant questions regarding This project before we get any deeper into board member comments I have no questions at this time. I'm just trying to catch up real fast. I'm sorry. All right Let's move into Board member grannica if you have any Comments on the project or thoughts feedback for the applicant I dearly love the concept and that's what we're here for a concept review today I also just want to make note that If folks haven't read The historic resource survey, it's well worth doing I really appreciate the work that was done in that as well matter of fact, I'm planning to share that with some folks at the Santa Rosa historical society too because I think this speaks to Something that is needed and it's well documented and I appreciate it but also I learned something about my own roots as it relates to Germans and Methodists Episcopal Church as well. So that was interesting Really have no No Specific questions other than I think those that mark ask of you. I certainly Would agree that in the asking of them and then I think it's really vital in terms of where possible when you use the term Going back to complete restoration Restoration to the original however you use that I think we'll be looking for that When you come forward again, is this kicking back? and Be looking at building materials Systems window systems and so on but you guys are clearly on the right track. Thank you for Thank you your proposal Board Member McHugh and she'd like to make any comments Yes, I'd like to compliment you on the thoroughness of your presentation also on the historical resource survey That's always very helpful to to understand what the background is in the structure and that sort of things I really appreciate that and I support your project and I will When you bring it back, I'm hoping I'll vote for it and Board Member Garrett. Do you have any comments? I Appreciate the work you're doing on the restoration. I've loved that building for years and Actually looked at it myself to purchase it at one point And I'm happy it's going to be restored to its previous glory I do Support marks questions about the windows and although the windows in that Sanctuary bill, I mean not the sanctuary the personage building Don't appear to be this the the old windows. I'm glad to hear that they are And And I would support his comment about storm windows I live in a house that's older than this building and I added storm windows to some of my Flimsier windows that let in a lot of cold air and it's very helpful And I do have a question about the arch. I mean not the arch that well the arch on the garage doors I think you're adding another element and it might perhaps be a good idea to look at maybe a a Just a flat top on those to go with the personage building but I think you and I look forward to seeing the project in the future and West your fennel. Do you have any comments on the project? No questions just a comment. I I'm super excited to see this. I had showed this property to several people when it was for sale and some of the different things that People had proposed when it was for sale I Agree with cap Cappy about the the roof on the garage. I'd love to see it. Just be a flat roof without the Without the railings and stuff on top. I think it just lends itself Maybe you weren't saying that No, I was talking about the arch at the top of the garage door See that follow those straighter lines And I think you need the railing on that roof. I'm not sure by code Thank you. Does it if I could speak to that If you looked at the site plan, there's basically no Co-quo yard area for the pastor's kids or anyone to really run around and use so It was quite a design issue for a while trying to come up with something that I felt good with I'm a member of the church as well and my office is about 300 feet away And I've walked by the burnt portion for the last decade or so and I always had a feeling I'd be the one to help see this through So I have a lot put into the design, but to your point That's a roof deck up there And it's gonna basically function as the front yard for the kids to play in and had to be safe So it'll be a slope deck you can just see the scupper on the left-hand side of the rendering the roof will drain To those scuppers and there's a little curb up there for the waterproofing material But of course, we'd need the railing up there, too it'd be So there's a curb and then 42 inches. Yeah, but after designing the front porch I So wanted that to be in the spirit of the old design and I feel like it was it's sort of lost It was I turned it to a blue Material but the tree foil detail is on the existing photographs that we're looking at before the Church if we could pull those up possibly it might be good. There's one with the stair where the stair was shown Yeah, and it was just so important for me. It was about your third slide in I think way back then It was so important to Acknowledge there we go. Can you see the detail at the top of the stair? That's the gothic tree foil. It's three circles That are cut out of the wood Up above there and you see the shape columns So and then and then that roof over that covered porch is not integral it tucks under the main hip roof so the columns the trip foil and Tree foil detail and Slipping the roof underneath the main hip roof was a huge design consideration that I wanted to accomplish yet as I had mentioned the stairs are just Someone could come up there and they'd be peering into the kids bedrooms quite truthfully So it just wouldn't be good. So I wanted to come up with the design that was totally in the spirit and Acknowledges the rehabilitation for current day Life goes on and we I wanted this structure to just feel like That's always been there really it. It's it's just an appropriate. I think response so I'm coming up with the porch railing detail. This was kind of hobbed together I think the wrought iron that's on here, but you see a little wooden porch detail After you actually get up to the porch So working with Mark Perry He mentioned that the historic bow strage were not the two by two kind of that we see today They came out of three by three. So it'd be two and a half Inches minimum and maybe a full three inch dimension and turn balusters on the Pickets if you will the balusters are the railing so the design came up if you can go back to the rendering So picture the front porch designed There and I'm feeling there's a roof tucked under there's the trip foil trip foil And column detail in the railing and then I had this huge dilemma I would love the railings to be in the same plane as the porch railings, but when you look at it in section It just it just it's not even close to working. So I Went ahead and felt that this was in a very appropriate response to tie the look of the railings together but acknowledging that the function The form follows the function of what's going on that that roof is higher. So we get the elevated railing I just feel like it helps tie Just tie it all together personally But safety-wise we would need some type of rail up there and to me it'd be Advantages to have an open railing compared to a solid wall railing Thank you We're members debaucher you have a comment Go ahead, please. Thank you, sir I have really I forgive me. I got one more question I think you may have just answered it the columns that are going to be on below that the front balcony Those are gonna be wood Right now their plan done is that the property line is right along there So coming up next would be some review with probably Mike Enright in the building department and with fire maybe first and foremost to understand if they wanted a Rated assembly out there So right now they're planned as wood to be a little more economical, but it'd be period turned Wood columns it was hard to model So I came up you can see a little change in the shape of the columns, but you'd have the Curved and kind of radius shapes that's more in the period and there's manufacturers of those So we'd like to use wood But there may be a chance that we're requested to go to concrete and they may get formed up to look similar But the expense goes up drastically. So we're hoping we can stick with wood Okay I wanted that as the question is to start my comments in that it would be really unfortunate if those ended up being a steel pipe column That would that would be a real problem. So thank you. Yeah the shape there. Yeah Moving on to other comments again Some of these are things that I really want to see and some of these are just things to consider So as we move forward first of all This open belt or the the only part that's uncomfortable to me at all is the garage balcony garage deck area Are there any precedents in the district for something similar to that? It would help us very much next time we see you if you could show if there is anything like that in the district Number two I share a board member of garrison comment about the arch over the door The the flattened arch I don't get alludes to the Gothic strongly enough to Justify it being there if it had a slight peek or if it just went back to flat I think would probably be a more supposed appropriate response The garage doors are a bit problematic. These look like Something out in the 70s tract homes out nearby There are products that look like the carriage house doors that Would most likely have been used in that area They don't necessarily have to swing like an old carriage house door But they can be finished and due to its position right on the street like this It is a pretty significant design. Oh, and that's one thing that I would Definitely like to see change when this comes back is to have some more appropriate garage door style on there Windows as we talked about restore when you can On the back sides and the the areas that aren't as visible from the street You need to change some out to something more energy efficient Fine. I do recommend not going with vinyl. They don't give you the dirt or ability that you wish Let's see the railing along the street itself above the garage doors I Get where you're trying to carry that look over from the existing balcony that had been on the front of the percentage before This is one of things. I'm just throwing out as for your consideration What if you would make that front wall a solid wall and Perhaps do a small parapet type roof Over the garage to kind of bring that apparent height down a little bit The things that that would do if you could match the roof slope of the roof nearby It would allow some privacy for the children to play up there And it would be a place if you have a solid wall there that you could put a barbecue grill Or have stuff out on the deck and not have it seen by the neighbors And give you a chance to conceal some of your storage and things that you want to have out on your deck That's just a forget that's just a thought for you to play with I won't I'm not going to say no to your project You stay with us, but it might be a response that may be more useful to you and more in keeping with some of the neighborhood look Restoration is a very important word for us. We haven't seen a restoration here in Eight to ten years. We're delighted to see one That gives us a whole lot of flexibility in you doing what you need to do to make it look right Do it right and this is going to be a super project The rehabilitation parts of the project you have a little more flexibility on I'm eager to see what you come up with for sightings and things like downspouts and lighting and other aspects that we're going to want to look at When you come back to us again with a little bit more developed You're you've got a lot of good information for us already So thank you for that and the research into getting here was exceptional So I think that's all I have today That is thank you very much Yeah, I feel go ahead hi art Senna here just Sharing about the roof deck. We got the idea from another building in the cherry historic district just down orchard And I also wanted to to share we've been fundraising for about four months for this project and our hope is When when we receive blessing from all the parties where we need to receive blessing We'll start breaking ground and we would start working on the personage first the exterior of the personage first and then working on the Downstairs and then the personage inside and just to give you guys an order of the different stages We would be working on so the outside would take place first Hoping that that would be a blessing for our neighbors and then start working on the inside upstairs personage and then the downstairs Next I could segue to the materials. It's quite a precedence out there of the drop siding it's delineated well here It's existing on the church is existing on the personage that isn't burnt and Existing on the the one-story garage area if you will so any replacement boards would be this exact same material drop siding and And then the one by trim on the corners is currently detailed So it's it's just quite a given that there's no new materials being introduced on the walls Thank you for the information. I do want to make it clear though on a rehabilitation project You don't have to match and manufacturers. We do want to have some differentiation between the new and the old work What you're trying to actually restore and what you're trying to rehabilitate Yes, we would prefer that you have siding similar But you are doing exterior renovation and So it doesn't have to match All right, I'm gonna maybe ask a couple of questions and weigh into boy. This is a Absolutely breathtaking project the the church portion Totally beautiful the exact kind of Thing that you know, we're so thankful for people to go to the effort to do especially when it's supported by the historic report, which was very very interesting and it's the kind of You know human scale history that a lot of what we do is is so important for that isn't gonna be something you find in a Textbook that a million people read but it's something that you know, it's at the human scale and the history of this site It's exactly like that. It's it's fascinating and the building and the concept plans are beautiful And with respect to the church portion of it, I don't have Anything to say except Godspeed Wanted to ask a couple questions about the the personage and about the accessory structure as a whole With regard to the floor plan for the personage How much flexibility was there with respect to the the arrangement of the rooms? which room goes where and How locked in were you to putting you know the bedrooms in You know the configuration that they are the kitchen where it is that sort of thing Excellent question There we go upstairs. Yes the It's very similar to what's there The kitchen is in the exact same location the master bedroom and bathroom are the exact same location The closet walls are existing right there in the master bedroom and The upper bedroom on the northwest corner is existing and The closet line there is existing so if you go to the right The bathroom in the middle was requested by the pastor and his family for the kids and And that used to be you came up the stairs and that was a front door into into the structure and As as I mentioned before we wouldn't want anyone coming up from the street and peering in the windows here so the bedroom on the right is New if you will as is the closet wall and that's a little buffet off the or hutch off the dining the dining space but The corridor walls there you see at the master bathroom Five foot apart if you will Are existing and tracked down to the front of the structure and hence we created the bathroom The bathroom up front there with the two sinks for the kids so Short answer is three quarters of it is basically verbatim and The lower right-hand corner bedroom number two Has the walls closing that off from the dining being added With respect to the staircase in the front that's been that wouldn't be part of the plans for the the future work Were there any alternatives to eliminating the staircase altogether that were considered such as a gate or restricted access of some sort that would Eliminate the problem that you would fear with respect to intruders or lack of privacy without Eliminating the design feature altogether The design Really came about through the request for the off-street parking so underneath the roof deck there of course is the garage And I always as an architect you fixer. You're coming home was raining out and you got groceries, right? So if you go to the lower level plan, could you do that for me? There you can see the garage and there's a door that opens up and The design was just okay. I got some groceries and now I'm gonna Come up to stare and and get up to the the wraparound the wraparound porch. So After realizing that the stair up front would be a safety issue I just really went to the standard design Procedure as an architect and you got to bring the groceries in from the house and that's how the stair got in a little Recess a niche that is existing and I thought it was a good use of that niche so didn't labor the removal of the stairs up front and Function kind of governed in the design Okay, excuse me there is a fence in front of the stair you can see it there shown in plan It's actually called out. It says fence. So that would be closed off to keep Keep that safe and not have anyone hanging out there. I don't know if you can see that there, but the word fence is Below the top of the stair So the the relocation of the stair is more to Conceal it from you know being a conspicuous thing rather than And Then the gate of course with respect to actual physical access more so than You know eliminating the idea of a stair on that side of the structure correctly, okay, correct I Want to find the slide again. It's one of the historic photos. It's the 1909 photo on slide six There it is and it's it's hard to see up there, but it's the way the stair kind of appears In the historic photos. Oh that one you look at slide six there It's there just tucked in the corner in the smallest way we can zoom in here on our iPads, but What I like about that is the color Obviously there's a black and white photo. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt, but And also the the line the way that the sort of lines of that staircase and the darker color of it break up a little bit of the You know kind of The massing and the appearance of that building back there And kind of have a diagonal You know counterpoint to some of the roof lines and some of the lines that go the other way that predominantly go in the other direction So, you know, although I do understand the the very legitimate and obvious reason for making this design change we're dealing with the design change here that Would be applicable to whomever lived in in this personage and use the structure and it's also going to be a part of what the building appears to the neighborhood Like and you know how it interacts with Passers-by, you know in a visual way I prefer the the Historic photo and the way that the staircase You know creates that sort of breakup and the way that it looks now the you know, it's I think it's less well integrated and a little bit more looming and that sense of mass I think I don't think fits quite as well with the church roof lines Or you know in an interactive way with the street and You know, I'm just sort of questioning You know, I live in a in a 1930, you know single-family home one of those tiny pre-war you know Multiple builder subdivision kind of things and there's a bedroom, you know, that's that's two long strides off the street and You know, I'm just making that point to say that It's in fact the case that there's just Many in many cases bedrooms right up a budding streets, and I'm not sure how easy it's going to be to design a city where we don't have you know, that's sort of you know interaction between a home and a street For me, I don't think it would be a deal-breaking design feature You know the fact that it's eliminated in this I Dislike but Wouldn't be sufficient for me to consider it a deal breaker for a vote and I'm not sure how any of the board members You know feel about that either I do want to voice support for the the changes to the garage structure with the The curvature of that, you know, so the comments that have been made already, but it doesn't really have a gothic feel to it and you know, especially when it's Separated by an entire structure from the thing with the gothic features to begin with it kind of has an odd way of You know making the middle buildings seem misplaced So I think a flatter You know styling would be preferable to me and I'd also, you know Side with the recommendation for thinking about what sort of wall choices there might be on that street side of it as opposed to just a An open railing, but that wouldn't be a deal-breaking aspect for me either So I want to turn it back to the board members You know in light of everything that we have heard from each other and from the applicant and any other questions You want to ask if we could get a sense of which are our strongest commonly held Recommendations and the way we would want to state them certainly seemed like You know the closest thing to a consensus you know Mandatory element or thing that we would want to see in a final project is a change to that Styling of the frame for the garage doors And then there was a smattering of support that was stated by different board members for other design elements So if I could just ask board member debaker a few of any thoughts on how we You know any comments since the last time you spoke and how we want to package our statements to be most helpful to the applicant Thank You chair. There really isn't a long list here. This is Vocal to have other board members add other items to it I think the most important ones are number one We're recognizing that the steeple is a restoration project and the rest of the proposal is a rehabilitation number two Keep the many existing windows as possible But there is freedom in the non-visible areas to replace the windows Number three The garage doors and the arch We'd like to see that revisited and have a garage door selection More time appropriate Finally Revisit the railing Isn't to say you can't please take a look at some other options on the railing for the deck Okay And board members anything to that point about summarizing our comments board member granaga No, I couldn't add any more than what mark has So stated Other than I also appreciate that we did get a differentiation in Conversation between restoration and those portions and rehabilitation, and I think that's important to keep in mind as well So beyond that I'm fine Board member McHugh I Don't have any objections with any of the recommendations my fellow board members have made I am curious to to ask you The applicant is there anything else from us that you need or and do you have enough to be able to move forward? Hmm I would just be looking for Some input on the windows And the direction that we're looking at would be maybe a Woodclad dual glazed window double hung and if that's generally Acceptable definitely did not want to use vinyl and we don't want to there and the existing single glazed are very much hurting and Couldn't even be fixed really so we'd like to put new dual glazed Possibly woodclad windows and and does that sound acceptable board members any objections to that proposal board member debacle No no objection to also throw out the you might want to consider fiberglass As another option for providing some durability try to give you as many options as we can Okay I'm sorry. I missed what you said Please repeat that another option on windows that are less visible is fiberglass They have appropriate frames and profiles To be used it rather than vinyl Okay Thank you. I did want to add they'll eventually be repaired to the windows in the church, but they will remain existing sash and We have broken windows and things like that. So The sanctuary will remain as you see it currently today with broken windows fixed and They're existing wood single hung and a few fixed windows and then they The steeple has the lanterns if you will with the windows up there. So those would be new Thank you Remember McEw any last comments? Yeah Board member Garrett. Thank you. I would reiterate mark debakker's comment about perhaps the The change to the garage with something solid on the front for the reasons he stated and I'm that's all I really have to add I support all the others. Thank you And vice-chair fennel any sort of summary Comments about the board's direction to the applicant No, I agree with board member debakker and I'm excited to see the changes with when you come back with lighting and Different details when when you do come back. So that would be it Okay, and I would agree with that. Thank you board member debakker for the summary I think that accurately stated comments that got the most attention from the board and that I think it would be proper to characterize all of those as you know recommendations That you know those subjects be you know addressed in the interim consistent with the comments that you've made and that we've made during the hearing and that You know, there'd be some attention paid Next time around to a discussion of how those were addressed and that to a recommendation only May may I ask a question and share a comment before so comment first part of the stair replacement was to Allow for a second bathroom by putting that stair in the same place It would keep it would eliminate the use of a second bathroom as it shows here But changing the entry of that to be the side, but where the word deck is it allows the the second bathroom So that's the comment and the question is there is going to be exterior lighting and if you could if you guys can speak into Where that would look like or what you would recommend so we don't have to change it later. That would be amazing Now if any board members are ready to speak to that, please go ahead board member debakker Trust your architect We're looking for something that's period appropriate, okay You're probably not good enough do well With a very modern looking it can be simple or it can be period reproduction But we're very flexible on what that can be what we do want to see it because we've had some unfortunate surprises in the past So any of the things that are mandated like lighting where your address sign is going to be your downspouts a Lot of those things if you don't include them in what you bring to us it can lead to unfortunate Things in the field when you actually build it. Okay Any other lighting related feedback at this time? I think the trust your architect comment is a good one, especially when the especially when what we've seen so far is So excellent the reason to have faith faith, you know, it's a beautiful thing So with that staff are you satisfied with the the ability to Memorialize these discussions in the minutes. I think it was very helpful. Thank you very much. Okay All right, if there are no final comments or questions that will conclude item 6.1 Thanks very much for bringing this project. We're really excited to see how it moves forward. So we appreciate it. Thanks very much Thank you for your time. Thank you And with our reordered agenda if I'm not mistaken that concludes this meeting of the cultural heritage board And we will adjourn to our next regularly scheduled meeting which may be in two weeks unless that gets canceled. So Keep your eyes on the front pages for that news. All right There and Patty you have something. Yeah, there will be a Public hearing in two weeks for 801 Cherry Street, and I'll send you the public hearing notice Okay, all right. All right with that. We're adjourned With for 801 Cherry Street Patty. Let's just I'll be an awfully quick turnaround. I can't remember the address But there's a public hearing. Okay. Well, then You know be here or be square in two weeks and thanks very much for your time. I appreciate it With that word