 Good afternoon, everybody. It gives me great pleasure to welcome you to this panel discussion on ASEAN. ASEAN is one of these very strange organizations in the world. On the one hand, it's remarkably resilient, carries on. Unlike the European Union, it doesn't break up. We don't have a Brexit. And our economic growth is still moving along. We're going from the sixth largest economy to the fourth largest economy by 2030. So you're looking for good news. Obviously ASEAN is a place to go to, especially in a world where, as you can tell, as you travel around, it's very hard to find good news. But the surprising thing is that, even though ASEAN is in by all measurements a miracle, and frankly, if you compare, especially with other regional organizations, can you imagine the Gulf Cooperation Council functioning like ASEAN or the India and Pakistan getting along as well as the ASEAN countries? Can you imagine that kind of world? But that's what ASEAN has done. It's taken the most difficult, most diverse region of planet Earth and has created, frankly, one of the world's most successful regional organizations. But having done that, people still don't understand why is it so successful. So that's why we have this remarkable panel here to address one of the most important questions. What exactly is happening in ASEAN? How does it work? Unfortunately, this, of course, we should take at least four hours, but we have 45 minutes. And so all the participants have agreed that there will be no scripted speeches, that this will be an interactive session. And hopefully, we can try and give you, at the end of the day, some new insights. And if possible, we'll also try and see and get questions from the floor. I also mentioned that this is being live streamed. So hopefully, there's a big audience out there also listening to it. I'm just going to very briefly mention who the participants are. You'll read their biography, of course, in the forum's booklets. On my left, we're going to go clockwise, is Minister Trong Hoabin, the Deputy Prime Minister of Vietnam. He'll be speaking in Vietnamese. So please have your earphones ready. Next to him is Minister Ailanga Hartato, the Coordinated Minister for Economic Affairs of Indonesia. Thank you very much for coming here. And of course, then we have Ms. Helyanti Hillman, the founder and chairperson of Javara. She's also a Schwab Foundation social innovator. And last but not least, we have the group chief executive officer and co-founder of Grapp from Singapore. So we have this remarkable panel. And I'm going to start by asking the Deputy Prime Minister, because as you know, Vietnam is the chairman of ASEAN this year. What will Vietnam's key goals be as chairman in 2020? I would like to thank the initiative of the web diverse for hosting this event to introduce about ASEAN and the perspectives of development in ASEAN. So I would like to respond to the questions as follows. Vietnam is one of the 10 countries in the ASEAN community that is an organization which has a long history of development. Vietnam has participated in this organization in a very responsible manner. And at the moment, Vietnam is a country which has the very rapid growth rate. Over the past 10 years, we've been able to maintain a growth rate of over 6%. And over the past two years, we have been able to attain 7% of GDP growth. So it is among the highest growth in the world. And it has contributed to the development of ASEAN. We hope that ASEAN development will be stronger and stronger. For ASEAN, I think that is a strategic priority of Vietnam in our foreign policy. We have chosen the team for this year cohesive and responsive. That is a very important team, with a goal to contribute to the overall development of ASEAN for the prosperity of ASEAN. To share the common responsibility to connect ASEAN development with other reason in the world. And to make an active contribution to the international commitment in order to preserve peace and stability. Thank you. Here is cohesive and responsive. Well, that's, I would say, a good thing to have a goal. Let me turn now to Minister Thato. And I was going to begin by paying a tribute to Indonesia. And I mean this quite sincerely, because I worked in ASEAN for 33 years. And I always say that one key reason why ASEAN has been exceptionally successful has been because its largest member in Indonesia has been generous to the smaller members and allowed them to take the lead in ASEAN. And just if you want to know the contrast, the reason why other regional organizations, like the Organization of American States, why it fails is because the largest member tries to dominate. Indonesia hasn't done that. And Indonesia has allowed the smaller countries to take the lead. By the same time, there is also now within Indonesia some voices that are skeptical of ASEAN and saying ASEAN is constraining Indonesia. So how would you describe the current thinking of President Widodo towards ASEAN? How would you characterize it? I think one of the key that keeps the ASEAN like what it is today is that Indonesia believes that ASEAN is part of the regional trade organizations that defend multilateralism as a belief to enlarge the trade and investment. By creating that, it has proven in the last 20 years post-crisis that ASEAN is becoming one of the most growing economy in the world, above the global world average. And the key for ASEAN is ASEAN believes in harmony and consensus. There is no footing within ASEAN. So we go together. Though there will be a challenge, a challenge on the additional regional trade that has been discussed in Bangkok about RCEPTS. RCEPTS actually is already done, but the one that is still holding is India. So whether the ASEAN for the very first time, it is never in ASEAN that making decision based, not on consensus. But this time it's the challenge whether we can go on consensus that go RCEPTS without one country. Because RCEPTS is comprised of 29% of the whole trade and 47% of the whole population. Even without India, it's already 27%. And also it's bigger than any trading block, EU, even TPP-11. So that's the first challenge. The second challenge is that the ASEAN actually, the intra-trade ASEAN is not as expected. So we can grow more intra-trade within the ASEAN because most of the ASEAN countries produce export almost similar product, namely manufacturing electronics, automotive, textile. And internally we can compete each other for the exporting countries. Yeah. I must say you pointed out two big challenges on RCEPTS and the India's decision not to participate. But you know ASEAN is all this wonderful formula called ASEAN minus X. So sometimes not all 10 countries can agree. Eight gophers. So similarly we now have RCEPTS minus one. The only thing that ASEAN have formula is that the minus is with schedule on different years. That's right. That's right. Hopefully India will join later on. But you know on intra-ASEAN trade you're right to say that intra-ASEAN trade has been relatively stable. But you know the total trade of ASEAN has been going up. And therefore the intra-ASEAN trade in percentage terms is stable but in absolute terms it's going up. So we are improving in that dimension too. So now I'm going to turn from trade and to the question. I would like to say that ASEAN is very responsive. ASEAN is very much responsive especially in the fourth industrial revolution. The opportunity for ASEAN to increase its inner capacity is great. That you know it's good to have this interjections but do it later so we can put our... Yeah. Okay. You know one of the major criticisms that has been made of ASEAN this is a long standing criticism is that it has been a project of the governments of ASEAN and not the people of ASEAN. Hence the people of ASEAN they don't feel the same sense of ownership of ASEAN that the people of Europe do you know. So the question is and this is to you especially as a social innovator how do you think we can get the people of ASEAN to feel a greater sense of ownership of ASEAN? I think it's very interesting. Actually the connection is there. We do have the connection. Except that our connection might be infeasible from the ASEAN governance. So I'm taking examples of the social entrepreneurship network and the woman entrepreneurship network. We support each other. It's just amazing what we have done for each other and probably it's different from the normal businesses because we tend even when we compete against each other for the exporting countries but at the same time we promote each other. We help each other. And I think... So you're different from the men. Sorry to say. Good example. I'm touching not only women but also social entrepreneurs and social innovators. So I think it's very important there is a common denomination based on values, based on impact targets that are beyond the country. So if we're talking about poverty everybody's facing poverty. When we're talking about malnutrition everybody is talking about malnutrition. And this common denomination is actually the one that's connecting us together. Except that a lot of times our connection is infeasible from the governance. So we do much more things than what is being recognized by the governance of the ASEAN. Can you just quickly give one or two examples of how you collaborate with others? So for example one of the critical factors is innovations, right? Because that's how we help the farmers to move to the next level. And for example the solar dome dryer that I have is actually helped by the Thai. It's the Thailand professor who developed the solar dome dryer came to us and helped our rural entrepreneur academy and setting up our solar dome dryer. So it's basically people to people. It's not G2G, it's people to people. And because they have responsibility to support the farmers regardless which part of ASEAN they are from. And then another thing is that because it's been a challenge for us. For example, how to penetrate the export countries. And then apparently our common friends who are doing exactly the same with what you said exactly the same products. It's like, Heli, did you know how to get in? I'll let you know how to do it. And it's because they believe we are sharing the same mission. And that's what connected us. Good, that's a very good example. So Anthony, gonna ask you the most difficult question. Oh, wonderful, I'm ready. You know, obviously we live in a different world. Everything is digitized. What do you see the role of the digital economy in ASEAN's transformation and economic development? How do you think the tech industry can help ASEAN industries what they call 4.0 Gov? Well, number one, I think tech is... We should never paint tech with just a broad brush. I think that's number one. Because we're quite different. So take, for example, Grab. It's a tech platform company, mostly O2O, so online to offline. So we serve, for example today, 9.7 million micro-entrepreneurs. Many, many people in Indonesia, many, many people in Vietnam. And again, thanks to the ministers here who supported us to build that. With these 9.7 million micro-entrepreneurs, we've been able to develop and contribute 5.8 billion US dollars of GDP just last year alone to Southeast Asia. So again, we meaning Grab's platform, empowering. You know, we always say we don't give fish to those that are less blessed than us, right? The drivers, the food merchants, the person who serves a Bobo Ayam, chicken porridge or pho at the side of the street, we provide tools and we empower them to generate more, to generate, to become a micro-entrepreneur. So with that, we together with this panel here developed 5.8 billion dollars of GDP. But I think more importantly, if you go down to that one story we talked about just now, about Ibu City, right? The ability where companies like Grab, and there are many across Southeast Asia, can work hand in hand with governments like the Indonesian government, Vietnamese government to create policies that help people. So specifically one person, Ibu City, she's completely handicapped. And the old policy was that handicapped people, disabled people, especially disabled women, are not allowed to drive and pick up passengers and earn an income, so she had no income. Thanks to working very close with governments, we are able to now turn that around. And today, she, her husband, not only is she and her husband driving and earning income, her husband now has developed a business to create disabled car kits for other disabled people to become a Grab car driver. So this has created one win-win, the government wins by creating employment, creating income for the bottom of the pyramid. Two, people like City now has an income that she never had before. Three, companies like Grab, we're very blessed because we have more supply in a supply-constrained environment, so customers are happier because there's more cars, there's more motorbikes, there's more modes of transport. So I think here's where I think technology, platform companies can work hand in hand with governments to create tremendous GDP contribution throughout the region. Yeah, just a quick follow-up question. One of the comments about ASEAN is that, the paradox about ASEAN is that the businesses are successful within ASEAN, and ASEAN in theory has created some kind of common market or whatever it is. But in practice, when companies deal with ASEAN governments, they have to deal with 10 different governments, 10 different regulations, and of course we have things like ASEAN single window and all that, but how far have we gone in terms of creating what I would call a common operating business platform? I mean, how candid can you be without upsetting any government? You put me at a spot. So we operate in 339 cities across Southeast Asia. So, you know, as a fellow person from ASEAN, born in ASEAN, grown up in ASEAN, serving ASEAN citizens, we still haven't figured it out. It's not... It's complicated. It's extremely complicated, right? Even, you know, they will say, even in Indonesia, serving a customer in Jakarta, you know, of Javanese descent, is going to be different from serving a Chinese customer in Medan, right? And a Balinese customer is different. Same thing with serving, you know, Ho Chi Minh versus a Hanoi customer. You know, they have different price points, they have different preferences. So I think it's not about working with a country government. Of course, the ministers here are very helpful, but also working with a local government, right? We have to work with the Balinese governor. We also have to work with Medanese and Jabuda Tabe, right, Jakarta. So it's not just one-size-fits-all. Good. I'm going to ask a follow-up question to you, Minister Atato. But before that, I want to also alert the audience. I cannot see some of you behind me. But I'm going to throw the floor open for questions, and I hope there are mics or something that are available that you can join the discussion and post questions if you would like to, you know? So, Minister Atato, you just heard what Anthony said. You know, as you know, I've attended, as I said, lots of ASEAN meetings. We make all kinds of commitments. We want to have a ASEAN single window, facility trade and all that. How do we make that more real for the business? What's your view as a policymaker? First is tax issues or fiscal issues. Tax. Yeah, tax and fiscal. Now with national single windows, if we talk about automatic exchange of information, we start with that information flow. Second, of course, if we talk about digital, then we have to agree on commodities, on product, on the value of the product that are open, not subject to custom exercise. Otherwise, there will be no market without this custom check in every product and commodities. That's one of the steps that we have to go through. But I think we haven't integrated on the investment license processes because each operate on different schemes, including different kinds of incentives. But towards the one market, there is a challenge also. If the market between intra-treat ASEAN, other countries probably the trade is much more than the others, there is always a case that the other countries asking more or balance trade between the ASEAN. So I think that the trend towards that kind of things also happening. So I think each of ASEAN countries having different risk profile. That's why the investment, the interest is different. We are not towards the European countries towards one single currency because we know that with that kind of arrangement, there is a lot of things to lose than using the ASEAN models. Yeah. So I was going to ask you a DPM, if you don't mind. What is your view about this trade facilitation? Because Vietnam is also trying very hard to participate in the digital economy too. So how do you think Vietnam as chairman of ASEAN can enhance the increase in trade facilitation among the ASEAN countries? Our perspective on driving trade among ASEAN states is that we need to have a policy and legal institution that is transparent and open, thereby creating an equal playground for all businesses and people in their participation in business within ASEAN. We also need to have an open and comfortable procedure, administrative procedures. And thirdly, we need to attract resources from within our countries but also open the door for businesses from externally to conduct business. This would allow us to develop and also to be responsible to the ASEAN community. We focus on the sense of community and the identity of ASEAN. And as Mr. Ministers mentioned, we have 10 nations and despite our differences, the existing mechanisms are being ever more connected. Even our parliamentaries, parliaments are connected, governments are connected, legal agencies are connected, thereby creating a general consensus within ASEAN to respond to this new period of integration. So I'm now going to throw the floor open. Yes, we have one and two. So let's take two questions together. And if you don't mind, just briefly introduce yourself and pose a short, sharp question. Sure, thank you for that. My name is Don Lam, I'm from Vietnam. Just follow up on your point regarding the ASEAN is more of a government push rather than the people push. We've been talking about it for a long time because a lot of the time, people don't feel like they've been part of ASEAN. There's no ASEAN identity like in the EU. But I think things have gone a long way since the last five years, I believe, with a number of things. One is that with the air flight connecting among the ASEAN country, becoming more available through this county line, I think that when people travel between countries, they get closer when they understand each other's culture. The other thing is when you have the, you know, in ASEAN, they're crazy about soccer, right? So when there's an ASEAN soccer talk, people get together. But I think the government should do more to encourage. There's no systematic ways of creating an ASEAN identity. So I'm wondering if there is a way among the panelists, is there any other suggestion that you can do, what you can do to create an ASEAN identity? Excellent, excellent question. Can I just pass the microphone? Again, if you don't mind, briefly introduce yourself on a short, sharp question. Hi, thank you. I'm actually from Japan. I'm part of the global security community. And I do entrepreneurship education for senior citizens in Japan. And you're from Japan? I'm from Japan, yeah. But I personally studied in Singapore, by the way. And my question is something so-called gig economy. So you mentioned micro-entrepreneurs, and I love the way you see it. And also, however, if you change the perspective, there are opinions that says those gig economy is putting people on a more fragile state, where it is harder for them to get out of the current economic state. So it's a question to all of you. Do you think the gig economy is contributing to the stability of the ASEAN economy? Great, so I think the second question that I'll pass it to you, Enzo. But I must say, Don made some very interesting points about ways and means of generating people ownership. One is, of course, the explosion in budget travel that, of course, the government allowed it to happen. And second, of course, the idea maybe of ASEAN hosting, combining together host a World Cup or football. What do you think? Yeah, I think one of the idea is hosting games together. Then we can be- Sports is a great integrator. A great integrator. And the second is, of course, the student exchange. So the student exchange within ASEAN, I think we have to do more for that. The third, of course, the digital economy. Because the digital economy provides opportunities for many people to trade within an ASEAN. Without that kind of things, it's very hard for each ASEAN member to feel it's part of the ASEAN. Because they are still part- the Indonesian still will part of Indonesian, it's part of the Malaysian. Because they leave because of the Malaysian or because of the Indian, Indonesia. But if they can trade apart from the big companies, but for the individual, small and medium enterprise, then we can create an ASEAN opportunity that they feel they can live with ASEAN networks. That's the homework of the ASEAN government. Okay, please put on your headset the DPM. And then I'll turn to you, Mr. Lanti, if I can. A photo, Tung? As a follow-up, the opinion from the ministers, I would like to raise the initiative from ASEAN. Now Vietnam is the strength of ASEAN. We would like to enhance the identity and community awareness of ASEAN. And we work on ASEAN citizenship and ASEAN community. Ten ASEAN countries, but the cultures are very similar to each other and the people are very, could be sympathetic with each other. And we are visa-free countries and people could travel freely within ASEAN countries. But for example, Mr. Tan, your graph has been present in Vietnam. Many other businesses also from Thailand, from Malaysia are present in Vietnam. And Vietnam are promoting our businesses to invest abroad. So we need to create this common awareness identity of ASEAN. We need to build a platform for ASEAN, a citizen of ASEAN. But my generation, we learn French, we learn Russian. However, today we have a common language that is the English that we could freely communicate with each other in an easy manner. The last point is a very important point. If you look at the European Union, they have 28 countries and when they meet, they translate the meetings into 17 languages, if I'm correct. ASEAN, you only speak in one language, English, which is quite unusual. It's an external language that ASEAN uses. That's a paradox of ASEAN. So what's your comment, Heli, about Don's question about the people to people? People are looking at, you know, frankly, at the end of the day, it's actually very important to create this sense of ownership of ASEAN among the people. Yeah, I already give examples on the network of the woman entrepreneurship and social entrepreneurship. But I think it's also important to see there is a business leadership that builds the ASEAN identity. So I'm taking example of Air Asia, for example. It's just amazing how they serve the whole ASEAN, not only in terms of selling, you know, cheap airline tickets, but the fact that they do have policy to give priority to woman-led organization in the indigenous community and disabled in terms of the procurement. And they give a very good, you know, services. They have a, they give a very good rate. So they even go to the rural areas of Indonesia, for example, to provide capacity building for the farmers and then connecting it to their market. So it's just amazing how the business leadership actually can take more because with the skill that they do, actually they can, you know, scale up building the, you know, ASEAN identity and the sense of, you know, ownership, but there is a common denomination that has to be there. It's beyond business because if we're only talking about business, then everybody's talking about their own profits. But when they started to think about beyond the business, about the humanity that they serve, then basically we can go much way ahead with the ASEAN identity. You know, Tony Fernandez is going to love you a lot. The CEO of ASEAN. The best advertisement he's ever got. Anthony, what's your response to the Japanese young man's question? On gig economy, worker specifically. I would say they are, what is their next best alternative, right? So I think if you look at many in Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, I remember, you know, there was one driver I spoke to in Jakarta. He was a parking jockey before. So last time you remember, a few years ago, they had to have people jump in into a car to be able to access the highway, for example, so that they have three in one. This guy then now owed money to two different loan sharks. Today, as a grab bike driver, he now has his own bike. He now owns a second bike. He's renting out to somebody else. He now is building his own house and is saving up for his own chicken farm, right? And I remember the day when we loaned him a phone and we gave him this phone, and he never even switched on a smartphone before. He's only had a feature phone before. And today, he knows how to use a smartphone. He knows how to rent. He knows how to develop. He now picks up food, picks up passengers. He picks up e-commerce and delivers it to customers. So I think that is a good example of creating self-entrepreneurship. Now, our next role is then, how do you up-level these people? Now, at a macro... This is one example. Now, if you take it at a macro level, I think the beauty of companies like Grab and many other examples across the world in this region... So, rewind eight years ago, I remember when people talk about raising, you know, 50 million or 100 million in startups, in tech startups. People say, are you crazy? Today, if you look at it, we raised 100 million. Then we raised 250 million from Masayoshi. We took money from Japan and we deployed it to millions of people in Vietnam and Indonesia. And these are the bottom, right? They could never have accessed capital before. Today, they can access, then we raised a billion dollars. Again, we take it, we deployed it to all these people. Usually, if you think about it, you know, rich people, they take the money, they put it in a compounding interest. Today, you give it to the bottom of the pyramid. They are growing it, they're spending it, they're developing it, they're up-skilling. I think that's the power of the ability to capture capital, use human capital and convert it and enable millions, right? That, I think, is a power of the gig economy. Hi, you know, we have about 10 minutes left. Does anyone have any quick pressing questions? Yes, I see a gentleman, okay, sorry. One over here, who's that? A lady over here and a gentleman over there. Quick questions, we have 10 minutes left, yeah. Hi, I'm Maui. Identify yourself, yes, yes. Hi, I'm Maui. I'm an impact investor from the Philippines. I'm just wondering about how we're going to address in Asia the two pressing questions. Up-skilling and disaster risk reduction. Up-skilling and disaster reduction. Risk reduction, yeah. Please, can you pass the microphone there quickly, yeah? Thanks, maybe let me build on that question. My name's Paul Huñoor, based in Singapore. I think we've heard, Anthony, you just mentioned the huge changes from feature phone to smartphone. And in many ways in Asia and technology is allowed leapfrogging to occur. We've seen this from cash-based societies going to quite smart banking techniques. One of the other big themes of this Davos is around climate and the need to accelerate change. That's very difficult as we're raising people from bottom of the pyramid. But what opportunities exist in ASEAN to also leapfrog when it comes to these other measurements of progress? Well, I think we've had three different issues. Up-skilling, disaster, risk reduction, climate change. I wonder who would like to, Minister Hatato. Yes. What is Indonesia doing on climate change? I think Indonesia is already, and will be the champion of, for instance, carbon credit. We are working on regulatory framework that we can be on the forefront of this, namely, on the forest industry. Secondly, on the coral and for the main wood trees. And we are working for the prototyping or lighthouse for this carbon credit scheme. At the moment, carbon credit is not really that transparent. And each company deal with other institutions. And the price of carbon is non-standard. So I think in the next one to five years, we are trying to work on this mechanism because Indonesia can be becoming one of the highest carbon market within the region. And I think there is not much country can do this. And one of the things that we can learn is from the trade of, for instance, for CPOs, for palm oil, which under the pressure of EU that they would like to quote and quote, not to buy biofuel from Indonesia, we create our own market. Then the current, our own market can create a better price for the 14 million of fiber. So this is the same things that we will do for our sustainable developments in the environments, including how to plant more trees, how to make a research for more mangrove. We make research for mangrove as well as limiting the usage or the trade of these coral trees that we basically we bad export for these kind of things. I think the key point is that I think most of the ASEAN countries agree that climate change is a challenge that has to be dealt with. I mean, as you know, we had a world leader say this morning he doesn't agree with the prophets of doom on climate change. I think ASEAN believes that climate change is real and has to be tackled. I wonder will you touch the question, how you are upscaling? Yeah, I was going to address on that. So actually there is also, there is a skill up and there is a skill out. The way we do things is actually, it doesn't have to skill up, but you can do skill out through replication by sharing your lessons, learn best practices and do cross learning with other entrepreneurs. And that's what we have been doing in the ASEAN regions with the Woman Entrepreneurs Network with the Social Entrepreneurs Network. So basically yes, you can scale up the impact but through scaling out, through replication, through cross licensing, through cross learning. So that's also a different way of touching it up. Do you want to add something DPM on this, on upscaling, on retraining? Regarding capacity building, we deemed this as a national priority and one of the three main strategic breakthroughs with the other two being in infrastructure and institution, creating an open and transparent playground for people and businesses to approach advanced business models and technologies. And the third one is obviously technology breakthroughs. We have sent our officials abroad to cross learn and this is a mechanism that I believe that ASEAN can consider to together train a workforce in service of the unique features of the ASEAN economy regarding the issue of climate change. It is our perspective that disasters can either be because of nature or because of the people. And in this case, it's because of the over-exploitation of natural resources or environmental destruction that eventually to climate change right now. We can't of course fight against nature. We have to cope with it. When disasters happen, we need to figure out the origin. We need, so we need to now replant forest, especially those that can, and we have to fight against those who destroy forest and those who over-exploit natural resources. So we need to synchronize between rebuilding the environment and combating environmental destruction. And we also need to maintain protection forest. This is featured among our policy and I believe that this should also be taken into consideration by other ASEAN member states because obviously forest fires is also a very large catastrophe that we need to face. Do you want to put in just a quick one-liner on the last question about climate change and upskilling? Yeah, sure. Very quickly, Anthony. Sure, I think one is EV ecosystem. So with both governments in Indonesia and Vietnam, we're investing hundreds of millions into electric vehicle ecosystems. So we had the largest EV fleet in Singapore. We've learned that we've built, together with SP Power, we've built thousands of EV charging stations. Now we're working and deploying that in, again learning and growing together, deploying that in Indonesia and in Vietnam. Again, I think the best way to fight climate changes, a lot of it is pollution from cars. So we're going to remove that with EVs. You know, behind you, you see this figure of 50 years, right? The World Economic Forum was created in 1971. In 1971, it was also when I attended my first ASEAN meeting. And I can tell you when I attended my first ASEAN meeting of just five ASEAN countries, when I walked into the room, there was tremendous distrust and suspicion among the five countries. We had just come out of confrontation, separation of Malaysia and Singapore, problems with Thailand and Malaysia, problems with the Philippines and Malaysia. And if you had told me 50 years ago that this region, Southeast Asia, 50 years later, would end up having, frankly, either the second or the most successful regional organization in the world where, remarkably, there's a lot of harmony, cohesiveness among the countries. And of course, there's a lot of imperfections within ASEAN. By the end of the day, if you want to feel confident or optimistic about any region in the world, the one region you can feel optimistic and confident about is ASEAN. And I think the reasons why I've been elaborated very well by four wonderful panelists, all that remains of me to do is to thank all four of you for your contributions and for explaining ASEAN to the world. Thank you very much. Thank you.