 Yes, please. Hello and welcome to the digital free thought radio hour on W O Zio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We're recording this on Sunday morning, May 22nd, 2022. I'm Larry Rhodes or doubter five. And as usual, we have our co host on the line with us Hello, Wombat. Aim for the eyes. Always works. And our guests today are dread pirate Higgs. Welcome from Canada. Ahoy, George Brown from East Tennessee. Hi. And Boudreaux, Ohio. Was that right? Duggy. Duggy. Duggy. Close. Only a state away. Digital free thought radio hour is a talk radio show from about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism and the sciences. And concept conversely, we'll also talk about religion, religious faiths, gods, holy books and superstitions. And if you get the feeling you're the only non believer in your town, well, you're just not in Knoxville in the middle of the Bible belt, we have a group of over a thousand of us. And we'll tell you more about that after the mid show break. Wombat, what's our topic today? Does atheism need a pope and all the repercussions that come with it? You think it's an easy answer. You think it is, but let's we'll go into the meat and potatoes incident. Before we do, before we touch any of those proteins, let's have a nice dose of carbs from our own noodley representative in chief, who will lead us in our weekly invocation. Go ahead. Our noodley Lord, who art in a colander, all Dante be thy noodles, thy blood be rum, thy sauce be young with meat as it is with vegetables. Give us this day our garlic bread and forgive us our cussing as we forgive those who cuss against us. Feed us not into key toism, but deliver us some carbs for the iron or the meatballs and the sauces and the grog, whenever and ever. So you know, something I've been looking forward to is seeing all of you guys here. I got my mom here and it's nice to have friends and family over at the same time too. And so I'd love to just take a moment to just catch up with everybody. Tread, I heard you doing a lot of weddings. What's going on with you? Yeah, well, you know, now that the COVID restrictions have lightened up, people are getting themselves married. And, you know, right now, I'm not, of course, I'm a marriage commissioner under the last statistics ministry. So if people, it's a good secular option. And a lot of people don't know that there's that option. So sometimes they come to me and say, well, you know, what are you like non-denominational? And I say, well, in fact, under the regulation, I cannot invoke any kind of supernatural being. So this is a purely secular option. And they, you know, once they kind of realize it and they, they aren't religious, then they're quite happy to have that option. So for anyone listening, Church of the Flying Spaghetti Munster reps and priests can do wedding officiating. And it doesn't mean that everyone has to eat spaghetti afterwards, right? Like, it's not like a spaghetti themed wedding, though you totally could have that. What it is, is like a respectful, non-supernatural place or representative to hold vows, right? And still be officiating. Is that correct? Well, so I am actually, I've been appointed by the ministry of vital statistics to be a marriage commissioner. So it has nothing to do with pastifarianism. If people choose the pastifarian option, because I, in my photo online through the ministry, if someone looks for a marriage commissioner, they see me wearing a tricorn. And so if they want that option, I am happy to oblige. Absolutely. And I have. That might be the circle I check. Just letting you know. Yeah. No, the one I had in just around Christmas a year ago. Yeah. Yes, I had my tricorn. I was in a sweater that had lights on it with the reindeer. You know, one of those really ugly sweaters. Sure. Had a pair of plaid, plaid pajamas. And we had a lot of fun. I imagine that's the way, that's the way wedding should be in my head. They should be a lot of fun and a memorable experience and fun for everybody. It's not fun sitting in a suit, sweating outside, listening to the same three songs over and over again. Which is where I'll be today. Anything else going on that you want to catch us up on? Just doing more wood turning out in the shop and just waiting to get back to work here. There's been a slump in the film thing because we had pilot season. Sure. So they have to wait until those are produced and have been aired in order to determine whether the series is going to continue. So starting up in June is when the regular seasons begin and I'll be back at work. So nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Boudreau, it's always good to see you. Welcome back to the show. How you been? I've been, I've been great. I've been sad. I've missed so many guys. Soccer's been busy and yeah. But it's great to be back and I'm going to Greece next month. Oh, right. Very, very nice. Yeah, we're about Athens. Oh gee. Yeah, if you're going to go to Greece, you got to go to Athens, right? And then, well, I mean Macedonia too, like there's so many beautiful places there. And I guess is it like just sightseeing or do you have family up there? No, I'm going for a conference. Submitted a paper to a conference and I'm going to go present. But my wife's coming with and a co-worker and his spouse and one of my colleagues is from Greece and he'll be there. So I will get kind of the inside. Paper on. Yeah. And how is your by the way? Non-existent. I did. I did take Latin in college. So maybe that'll you're an engineer, right? Like you should be able to do the math, right? Like, because all the Barry was and all the, they all came from there. He's just like, oh, you spell with math. I understand everything you're saying now. That's great. And the paper topic is too boring for this podcast. What's the title of the topic? Just hit us. Just hit us cold, cold dipping in the shower. Just give us the title. I'm not even sure exactly the effect of segmentation on safety. Okay, not bad. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad. I love it. Oh, what? Anyway, George Brown, second and a half. Didn't see you last week, we're going to call you. What's up? How you been? Oh, I've been okay. I, you know, here in Tennessee, things are growing. Yes, it's, it's springtime. And everybody's allergies are acting up, which means my allergies have been acting up. So I started taking, I started taking a new antihistamine that's making me very drowsy. And I also was up very late the night before last show. So I decided I'm just going to sleep in today. Yeah, is what happened last week. That's why I wasn't here painting the town red. You see, George, I don't feel bad. Better than you be ill or something. That's great. Very true. No, no, I was just sleeping to tell you the truth. I will not lie. I did not drop down a cherry tree. I was fast asleep. So very popular bush here in Tennessee is the honey circle. I don't know how much they're very popular in Kentucky, but they're all in bloom statewide. So you go outside and everything smells sweet, but it's also like hits your face and you're sneezing, but then you get over it and you have this like, it's nature's been shampoo washed kind of sense outside. It's very, very nice. Well, growing up growing up in New York, I always had a post nasal drip. And it was going to be crazy. And the reason for that was all the pollution blowing over from New Jersey from all the chemical factories over there. Yeah. So here in Tennessee, it's different. I have the same symptoms and it's from all this junk that's growing. All right, I'm going to ask this weird question. Has anyone ever seen those weird pots that you put down one nostril that pours out the second nostril? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Is that the other thing? Yeah. Okay. No. Yeah. All right. I didn't know I have a squeeze bottle that does the same thing. All right. All right. I saw that and I thought it was a magic trick. I was like, there's no way these tools are connected. That's crazy. Are you? Where's it going? It's like, they're good. They're good. They're good. They work. They work. They work. I had sinus surgery and I had to do that for a week or two. Yeah. The very first time I did it, I thought it was so weird. It felt like I'd like you feel when you go to a pool and get water in your nose. Yeah. But after that, I mean, there was no chlorine. So it didn't hurt. Okay. After that, it was just fine. Yeah. Okay. Just a gentle saline solution. And and here's the I guess the scary question. There's a lot of stuff come out or is it just like, I'm just rinsing, I'm just rinsing for rinsing or it's like, whoa, that was in my head the whole time. You've got the sink water running too, right? You don't need to look at that. You don't need to. Better out than in, I always say. That's right. Better out than in. Found that USB stick I was I was wondering where it went. There's where all the spiders. The toy soldiers. Yeah, yeah, like things from childhood, you're like, that's where that thing went. All right, jelly beans. You know what it's I have said this, like, my brain's gone. Right, right, right. If I if I'd cleaning my car and I find like a jelly bean under the car seat, I'm still eating the jelly bean. That's how that's like my neutral. There's nothing else touching that. And it's already a jelly bean. Like it's not like a piece of Reese's piece of cups was like melted like I'm eating that still. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're all I think we all agree that's normal. Okay, we need more women on the show. Larry. Absolutely. Larry. How you been? How you been? How you been? Oh, fine. I meant to take my bike out yesterday and didn't get around to it. So I'm hoping I will today. My motorcycle that is. But no, I'm feeling fine. Doing good for 72. Had a birthday this month. Yes. So happy birthday, Larry. Happy birthday. Listen, Larry. When you ride your motorcycle, do you go out with your suspenders? Because there's nothing more cooler than just I represent. Yeah. Just kind of remind me of red, green a little bit. Yeah. Keep your stick on the ice. There you go. I grew up with that. That's cool. Wonderful. Guys, we have an interesting topic, an interesting question today, which is does atheism need a pope? Now, hear me out. What does a pope do? Okay, you might your knee jerk reaction is no, atheism doesn't need a pope because we don't need the pope. It's like, I understand what you're saying, but think about what the benefits of a pope is. When you think of the Catholic Church, you don't have to think about the the disconnected groups of people across the entire world. You don't have to think about an organization that's been around since medieval times. You think about one guy who lives in one place who visits different locations, talks to presidents, talks to other world leaders, gives speeches as a representative of this entire ideology and who everyone looks up to as like, that's the guy who represents the rules and hands down the dictates that we all represent follow. And we have an election system for this person. And that's the person who represents us. If you have questions, talk to that guy. And meanwhile, I'm going to live my life. And if you have any questions, feel free to talk to representative. And I feel like while not entirely, while it does have its own complications, I do feel like there could be benefits, particularly from a political side to having a representative of atheism, because for the most part, we can ignore atheists, but it's very hard to ignore the pope. You know, those shoes are incredible. What are you going to do? And he has a little bulletproof case, little tiny, will we have a funny hat? Of course, it's going to be a funny hat. You can't have a religion without a funny hat. We all know that's we all know atheism is not a religion. Just saying pick and choose, pick and choose, pick and choose. So well, someone did point out that we already have one and that de facto pope is Richard Dawkins. Richard Dawkins. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. The fact of pope is Richard Dawkins. Dredd prior, would you like to elaborate or what do you think? Oh, well, I mean, you know, because of course, he was considered one of the four horsemen, along with Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, and Christopher Hitchens. And I think Richard Dawkins is pretty strident in his atheism. And a very soft spoken, but still soft spoken, you know, he's, you know, he's eloquent, articulate, absolutely incredibly knowledgeable and qualified. But, you know, soft spoken and and sort of gentle in certain respects. And I think those are all good qualities of someone that's representing. Oh, there you go. Oh, that's why I'm there. He signed it. Yeah. Cool. Very good. Cool. That's well, that's it's is that your brush with fame there? Yeah, I got to talk to him. And it's on real quickly, real briefly. But yeah, what about the idea of political persuasion? Because I know Richard Dawkins doesn't necessarily like shake hands with the the king of Bolivia, you know, or like any American presidents, because people will be like, I don't want to talk, I don't want I don't want to be associated with the guy who's in charge of atheism. Like, how can you bridge that gap? And do you think Richard Dawkins is in a good position to do that? Or would you, without a name necessary, would you want like a separate figure to be sort of like the political in between of atheism and, you know, politics at large? Hmm. Yeah, that's, that's an interesting question. Well, it's kind of like asking, should we have an atheist party? There you go. A political party. And the answer to that is oh, yeah. But I mean, can we get away? Can we get away from the two party system enough to do that? And that's that's the problem. I mean, right now, the nuns, I think I remember the religiously affiliated, right? But atheism per se is only about 10%. You know, people that actually say I'm an atheist, although a lot more people than that don't believe in God's. As far as your question about the atheist Pope, I'm not so sure because like the word God, Pope brings an awful lot of bad baggage with it. He's an authoritarian figure at the head of an authoritarian regime or establishment hierarchical, exactly. And you are expected to follow the edicts of a Pope. And atheists will do that. I mean, we're critical thinkers. We're independent people. It's like herding cats, as so many people say. So I don't think I was hoping you'd say this show because that is what you say. It was like herding a bunch of cats. Right. And I don't think it would work, but it's good to have a public person to be able to answer questions about that. Who is very good at it? Dredd and then Boudreau. Yeah, I was going to ask if you guys have heard the term brights as something that relates to atheists. Daniel Dennett uses it a lot in his books. I'm reading one of his books actually called Breaking the Spell. And he uses the word brights regularly to refer to people who are atheists. So I think it's a better name for, you know, a political party than atheists party, like I see party the brights, you know, like, like a pretty cool rebranding without the baggage. It's almost as good as being a pastyperian. Well, the only criticism I've heard of using the brights as a name is it implies everybody else is dim. Well, you know what? I'm going to stick that knife a little deeper. It also implies that all atheists are bright, which is not the case. There's that too. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a little bit. I always, you know, I'm always a little weirded out when people find identifier terms that in their own right or just self compliments. And it's like critical thinking. Yes, like that's hard to do. But like, I consider myself an intellectual. It's like, okay, what does that mean? Well, I watch Netflix with the subtitles on. It's just like, okay, okay, okay, we may have a little bit to go. Boudre, go for it. And then we go to George. What's up, Boudre? Yeah, I liked your point earlier about cherry picking. I mean, if we're talking about, you know, entertaining this idea, we don't have to, you know, follow it exactly the way the Catholic Church does. We could cherry pick. Exactly. And I think you can take the good pieces. And I've made the point, I think on this show before that that's one of the struggles we have, you know, as a group is that where we really are so separated and we're so unique and different that we can't rally under one term. There are a lot of people that don't like the term atheist, but probably believe as strongly as we do on most other aspects, especially political things, you know, so yeah, having having someone to kind of rally behind and Dawkins probably wouldn't be the perfect choice because I think he scares off some people. But yeah, having someone that the group kind of elects to kind of rally behind and Hitchens is no longer available. I mean, he would have been perfect. Very eloquent, very, very atheist and willing to speak up about it in public form and do as well. Funny too. And funny. Yeah. And you know, if I were going to pick and choose personally for me, how I would pick and choose would be maybe and not to get into too much of a tangent, but I would try to get opportunities for more diverse representation of atheism to show that there's a lot more than just the very, very nice, strong, intelligent white men. And I would have like Mendeza Thomas up there. I'd have black comedians because a lot of black comedians are atheists as well. Hannibal Boris is a great one. Richard Pryor was a great one. I know we can't use Richard Pryor because he's died. But we can use Hannibal Boris. We could have like intellectuals. We could have like, I was happy to even be representative of it, just like just to showcase that it's okay if you're black to come out as an atheist because there is pressure in our community to stay religious, particularly in America. And it's nice to show that not only can you be successful, but you can also come out as well. What do you think Larry? Oh, yeah, like Ian Hursey Lee would be a good representative. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I just, oh, Ian Hursey Lee. She's a black woman from Somalia. Is that where she's from? And she's written a couple of books about how she escaped Islam. And forced a forced marriage. Right. She went through Germany into Holland, went to college with her and Michael Sherman and ended up in the pop parliament there. And she passed a lot of reforms and then eventually ended up in America in California, I think. But yeah, she got a couple of great books out there. And I really recommend reading Heretic, I think is the one right first one that she wrote. Also, there's a whole history of black playwrights, men and women. And it goes from James Baldwin, WB de Blas. There's like great literature and inclusions into American history that were written by black atheists who were prominent about it, who put it into their plays. And I felt like if we, if there was more than just a couple of names that we kept using, it seemed more of like a fuller on, you know, force of critical thinking and intellectuals that's like open for everybody. If we could do something like the Pope system, I would say why not have multiple popes? And why not empower everybody to be a pope in their own right in their own communities? We could have national popes and state popes and regional and city popes and city folks was like, Hey, I'm the block pope, I'm the pope of this block. What's up? Yeah, I'm a hood pope. We need an atheist hood pope. And it'd be the best thing ever because if you like these guys are in the hood, it's like, yeah, but that's a hood pope. It's like, Oh, that guy, he's smoking with like one of those cool things. He's cool. He's cool. Yeah, hang out with that guy. Anyway, George Brown, second and a half. Sorry. I just, I just wanted to mention something that I noticed in the news last week. Nancy Pelosi was denied. She was told she couldn't attend mass or something by the what the Archbishop of San Francisco, I don't know what these people's titles are or mean. And being while the Pope said that Biden could attend mass after all. And of course, what he's what these guys are talking about is, is that these people stance on birth control. So so one, one, the top guy in Catholic Church is saying to everybody that the President of the United States, being a Catholic is okay if he attends mass, but the Archbishop of San Francisco is saying the Nancy Pelosi can't attend mass because she's opposed to abortions too. So the disagreeing with each other. Maybe we need bishops as well as as a pope in our church of atheism. You know, I do like, I, I mean, we can go back and forth on this, but Dred, what do you think I want to get everyone's thoughts in? Well, I was going to say that as a representative of pastifarianism, we have what is called the International Pastifarian Captains Conclave. And so the various captains of churches around the world, essentially get together to discuss matters that are of interest to pastifarianism world over. And so no one, of course, I mean, it's like true the true democracy that was part of the Charter for for pirate ships is that things are run by consensus. And, you know, liberty, true freedom is what's most important for all pirates and, and in the interests of each other, it's in their own interest to make sure that they stick to it. So that's the way we run. And the bedrock of empathy is compromising to an extent realizing, hey, you can't always be the way you want. And sometimes the way you want it may not even be the best way for everybody. And like I understanding that benefits everyone. And I find like a true democracy system could help like a enclave of atheist posts from both the blocks all the way to like, country levels, just like congregating and saying, hey, everyone else is invited to but this is what we want to represent ourselves as. And do we like the term bright? Do we want to try something different? You want to use all of it? Hey, maybe I'll work for everybody. Why are we following strict rules? Like we, we just want to make sure that we pull people away from bad, critical thinking pathways, and hopefully migrate our society towards, you know, this deeper, slower thinking style that can ultimately benefit everyone because it's clearly showing some technological benefits as well. And this is trying. Yeah, we can hear you, Sky. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was loved again. Yeah, we're gonna take a minute. Do you have anything to say in the 70 before we go? Not right now. Okay, okay. We appreciate it. We appreciate it. But yeah, atheism and popes, there might be a room for more visible leadership is what I'm saying. And I think we can benefit a lot from that. Oh, yeah, especially those in Congress, if they will become more visible, more vocal, we hadn't we had once Madeline Muriel here, but she was awfully abrasive. Yeah. There's, I was just gonna say that I believe that in America, as far as I remember, that atheists were actually the most hated group, right? Or are, I don't know if things are starting to change as with the rise of the nuns, but it certainly has been that, you know, that in the past, and and polls taken of voters, you know, where an atheist is an option. People are, you know, again, they just treat, they say, an atheist will never ever get in as a president. You can have a black president, you can have a Chinese president, you can have a woman president, but they better believe in something because atheists, you're hated. Sure. Skyward and Texas. What is this nuns business? What is this nuns business? Sky, what do you think? I was going to throw in that here in Texas and in six other states, the state constitution prohibits an atheist from holding any public office. Yes, yes. I think I agree. Although that is, although that is in the Constitution, there's no longer protected. I mean, there have passed many amendments since then and it overrode the that statement in the Constitution. So it's not enforceable anymore. But since it's an originating document, they can't literally go in and change it. It would change the Constitution the way it was then. And we want to preserve that for history. Just I think it's a good idea. If anything, it's a time capsule for how dated we were in our thinking and how much progress we've made up to that point. Right. And the fact that we can amend the Constitution is demonstration that old dogmas or even thousands of years old should be changed and moved past since. Anyway, Larry, we're at a break, I think. Yeah, we are. Stay tuned right here for the second half of the digital free thought radio hour. We're on WOZO Radio 103.9 LPFM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. And we'll be right back after this short break. Welcome back to the second half of the digital free thought radio hour. I'm doubter five and we're on WOZO Radio 103.9 LPFM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Now let's take a moment to talk about the atheist society of Knoxville. ASK was founded in 2002. We're in our 20th year now. And then we have over a thousand members. And we have weekly in person meetings in Knoxville's old city at Barley's Taproom in Pizzeria. Look for us inside at the high top tables or outside on the deck if the weather is pretty. We're usually the loudest and happiest group there. We also have two, well, I didn't say which night it was Tuesday nights at five, 30 or six and we usually go to about eight. We also have Tuesday evening Zoom meetings. If you'd like to join us, if you don't live in Knoxville or you don't want to get out, just join us on our Zoom meeting. Email us first of all at askanatheistat Knoxvilleatheist.org or let's chat SE at gmail.com and we'll send you the links so you can join us. You can also find ASK online at Facebook meetup.com or go to their website at Knoxvilleatheist.org. You can just Google Knoxvilleatheist to find it. It's just that simple. By the way, if you don't live in Knoxville, you should still go to meet up and do a search for an atheist group in your town. Don't find one. One. Well, where do you want to pick up? Holy mackerel, Batman. We said words in the first half that we're going to clarify in the second half. So more of an extension. Guys, I also have a mea culpa. I forgot to add the episode from last week up online. And so there's no listener comments. I'm going to upload both of them this week. So expect some comments next week. Sorry about that, guys. And feel free to leave a comment in the YouTube description or comment box below. We'll go over them in the next week's show around this section. Anyway, Dred Pirate, you said we're speaking of Catholics. We're talking about the the Pope. We had a conversation about nuns rising. What's going on? Where are all these nuns coming from? So none is a term for no religious affiliation. So or none of the above. Or none of the above. Yeah. So if it's if it says check which religion you're a member of, usually down at the bottom is none of the above. And so that's where the term nuns comes from. You have to point out the tie into Richard Pryor though, right? Brewster's Millions. He ran for office and he convinced everyone to go vote none of the above. Oh, that was a while ago. No long time since I saw that movie. I saw that movie too. So but it was a while before we do. But yeah, that's great. That's basically the whole idea behind nuns. And so we have a census. I didn't know if it was in Canada as well. But in America you have to fill out a census to describe who you are and where you're from. It's a it's a duty obligation of our citizens to be able to do this and they will track you down if you don't. But when you do, you have the option of describing what your religious affiliation is. And like Dred Pirate just said, at the very bottom of that list, you have the in my opinion, the best box check, which is, you know, none. And if you hit that, a little question mark pops up because we're beginning to see that group exponentially rise compared to all other groups which are declining. So like the Christians in the most generic sense are decreasing in America and nuns are rising. And in fact, it wasn't until like a couple of years ago where nuns are actually the leading majority position majority in America over 50% over 53% or something like that. And that's that's an impressive thing because it doesn't seem like that's the way it is when you look out a window or when you go outside. Yet you have to think one out of two people that you're meeting would have checked that box as part of their survey. That was one thing that I was troubled with in well, one thing I did when the census came around my way, I had the full the full form which is the extended version. And that that question was asked. And instead of signing off on none of the above, I actually wrote in another box and pastifarianism beside it. And then checked myself off as a pastifarian. But you know, knowing that these statistics are changing as they are. And I think I brought this up the last time I was on was about the subsidized childcare seats available in British Columbia. And how there's like 21% Christians from the last census. But 58% of the subsidized seats were for Christian child care schools with Christian programming. And that's, of course, you know, church and state mixing unfairly as usual to wait where the public funds go. So, you know, as a pastifarian as other nuns who are now like you say on the rise, the majority are funding, you know, the majority of seats in Christian child care centers. And it's just not right. Very true. Boudreau, listen, the idea that nuns are rising, I don't know if it's just on your block or in your household, I imagine most people are atheist, but you have people coming into your home. Do you feel like in your neck of the woods in Lexington, do you feel like it is, how do I put this, relatively none populated? Or is there still like, would you would you compensate? I don't think it's one out of two people here, or maybe you just haven't asked. Feel free to jump in. I'll just keep extending my question longer and longer. That's interesting. I mean, we're in Kentucky, so we are, I think, kind of part of the Bible Belt, at least a little bit. We're a red state too, which I think, you know, definitely plays into this. But we're in one of the bigger cities, or in Lexington, so it kind of depends. You know, if I'm going to soccer a game in a smaller town nearby, most of the parents are from that small town. I'm probably the only atheist in the group. When I go to work, my office suite, I think there's actually one religious person nearby. So it depends. I think, you know, my street, you know, I can probably count on one hand the number of atheists, I suspect. And, you know, this is, you know, I know people go to church or I know, you know, there. So, yeah, I think context matters. But, yeah, that's a tough one to ask. Actually, one of the things I found interesting driving around our Kentucky license plate, you have an option for, in God we trust, which I think it's not the default luckily. Unlike police cars in Georgia or something like that. But I've noticed that anytime I see, a lot of times when I see the in God we trust, I look down at the county and it's usually a more rural county. I've been kind of doing, you know, back of the napkin calculations thinking it's anytime it's my county, Fayette County, I usually don't see it, but anytime I see the in God we trust, I look down and it's some rural county. Yeah, I'm not sure if you guys are aware of that, but there's a weird litmus test when you get a driver's license in Tennessee or Kentucky where they ask if you believe in a God and want to represent that as part of the signing up for a car registration. And if you say yes, you get an in God we trust on your license plate, your government issued license plate that you put on the back or front of your car. And you have to say no to get the other one so that you can get the secular version on your car. And it's like this weird, awkward thing. It's a very bizarre thing where you're in front of everybody and the lady's looking at you. And I, here's a small victory. Here's a small victory dress like I can't believe this like welcome to America. I can't. I'll be right back. In Tennessee they've redesigned the license plate. So like now there is a new issue of license plates that are completely different color and there's only one option and it has no God on it whatsoever. So it's in Tennessee, it's in Tennessee. Have you seen the new blue license plates Larry? Yeah, but you do have an option for in God we trust on it. But now you have to ask for that. So it's been flipped around. Oh, okay. So now it's not no to get the non-religious one. Now it's you're getting this one. Would you like a religious one? Would you like one for autism? Would you like one that for this? Now you have to go out of your way to pick that one. So like the default has swapped. And I appreciate that. Skye, are you calling from Tennessee or Kentucky? San Antonio judges. San Antonio is do you have any weird license plate things that you want to bring up? I know what we have that's weird is we haven't in God we trust law for the schools, which I am very much against. The schools have to post in God we trust in prominent letters. Some schools, it's only at the entrance. Some schools like public universities. It has to be in every building. Okay. Wow. I think we have the same thing here in Tennessee. Yeah, you do. I've got over somewhere. I was going to brag on our superintendent for our public school system in Kentucky. We had that we had that rule too. And he put a dollar bill in all the public schools near the front because it has in God we trust on the dollar bill. And so it's a slightly enlarged dollar bill, but I thought it was a pretty clever way of getting around it. I mean, I think God appearing on the money was one of the worst decisions ever because it galvanized in American thought the connection between capitalism and religion. I would much rather see our real motto Eccluribus Union there, which now is relegated to the back. And the most bizarre, I love it, registering a Pasifarian thing. It's one of the things where the more Christians try to push religion into the public circle, the more they do it in the least Christian way possible. Of course. The last thing God or Jesus would want his name to be on would be on the thing that we throw at strippers. Has anyone ever connected, at least put it on the twenty dollar bill? That's clever. But you know what one dollar bills are for? You put them underneath the twenty dollar bill to make it look like he got even more money. Like that's everyone knows it. Okay, anyway, I do have this question for kids, guys who have kids. If your kid didn't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance and this is an older comment question that we had that I wanted to bring up again. So I'm sorry for the person who asked it. I forgot their name, but it was an important thing. Like if for atheists who have kids and their kid comes home and it's like, hey, I got in trouble for not doing the Pledge of Allegiance. How would you react to that? And would that be an issue if they can explain why they didn't feel like they had to compel themselves to say a thing to a flag? Dred, I know you have kids. Larry, you too, George. I think everyone here is kids. No, I don't. Well, I have a stepdaughter. Okay, so Dred. But she was an adult when I got married. So she got to shoot. So she came back from school being like, they didn't want to let me say the Pledge of Allegiance. You would have other questions for her. Oh, Dred, you're from Canada. I'm not sure if they have such a thing. No, but we do, of course, have our anthem. Okay. And one of the lines is God keep our land glorious and free. So I say quab. Quab keep our land glorious and free. Okay, okay, okay. So Larry, what do you think? Well, first of all, nobody should be compelled to take any kind of oath. If it's under duress, an oath is invalid. Right. I mean, simple and clear. You should not be forced to make an oath. Right. Period. So we're not. So the superintendent comes out like we're not putting her in trouble for not saying the oath because that would be the case, right? We're getting her in trouble because she doesn't want to say the oath. It's just like that's so terrible. Pick a different school. Have you ever had, what would you do in that kind of reaction if your kids came in and were like, hey, we stayed quiet during the Pledge of Allegiance and now we're in trouble. Yeah, I would back them up on it. I think, I mean, that's like forcing someone to pray before a meal. I will point out that my daughter says the Pledge of Allegiance and then skips the God bit because that's in there too, but she just skips that part purposefully. So like the whole speech goes through and then for some reason your daughter ends like five seconds earlier than everybody else but screams it out just as loud and then was like, hey, she skipped the part. It's like, yeah, that's right. Remember me. Remember me. Yeah. Nice. I love it. Dredd. Yeah, I was going to say that I would agree in terms of the Pledge of Allegiance and what's what we're seeing in Canada of course is with the truth and reconciliation movement pushing ahead. Every meeting and every conference that you go to nowadays is started by a representative of a date of ban upon whose unceded lands the conference is taking place. And it is my practice not to stand because they want to, you know, talk about their ancestors or be their drum. It's just, I mean, it's just replacing one religious observation with another in my view and I refuse to do either. So that would be my kids. You know, certainly if one of my kids said that, I would ask them why or what compelled them to not rise and then listen to the explanation because that's the important part is that they just said, well, I, you know, you know, they were dissing somebody. Right. That would be different than just making a stand about their own right to expression and right not to express. Right. Right to expression. Right. It's like speech and choosing when to speak is still a right whether there's a religious or cultural obligation there or not. Right. Right. I can respect that. Skye, what's up? The original pledge as it was written by Francis Minister William Bellamy did not contain the words under God. That was added in the 50s when we're slapping God all over everything because of the Cold War, the Godless commies. Right. That's 1954. I think that was a big year that money started getting. I believe 1950s. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, we put it in our money we added under God to the pledge. I have a little notebook somewhere that tells all the stuff we did during McCarthyism. Yeah. That was scary. Right. Can you imagine what it must have been like to be an atheist or a person of color in the 50s? Oh my God. Well, I was there in the 40s. I'll tell you that not as bad as it was in the 30s. I can give you some particular indications that it sucks. Well, I was there. But it gets better. I was there when it was happening. And you know, I was in school when the under God came in and I was refusing. I was refusing to say the project of allegiance and I was even refusing to stand up when everybody else was doing it. Good for you. And I got I caught some flak for that. I mean, it's just imagine the 50s. The very end of the of the pledge negates the whole pledge with with liberty and justice for all. Well, liberty means I have the right to not recite the pledge. And justice for all means I have the right to never be punished for not reciting the pledge. Yes, really good points. Very good points, George. That's wonderful. Well said. Yeah. Yeah. And what would I do with my kid? Well, I would just back him up. You know, whatever he wanted to do was fine with me, you know, I and I don't have a kid. But even if I had a kid who was like, hey, there was this weird, you know, observance that was going on or this, you know, culturally relevant thing. And I don't see how it applies or I have some problems with it. So like when everybody stood up to to say their support, I stayed sitting down because I'm not that I'm a guess it is that I still have questions about it. And I'm going to want to do my personal research like you have the right to do that. Like you have a right to think about things before you just go with the crowd, right? And I feel like that societal pressure when there's an edict and you're in a classroom full of your peers and everyone's standing up, the kid that's sitting down is probably the most, you know, aware and willing to think kid. That's something we should be fostering in schools, not so much punishing, in my opinion, though, you know, that is just my thought. If we had an atheist pope, maybe we can get some more support for that. That'd be what I'd look for in my stump speech. We'll do this as our last calling for before we go out. So on the topic of an atheist pope, top three things we want, top three things we don't want, and maybe we can get there by consensus. And I'll throw out my top three and then we'll feel free to three of the three things I don't want. So obviously the things that I don't want are fancy hats because I don't want atheists to wear fancy hats. I know wear fancy hats if you want on your own, but don't make it a matter. I'm not going to be an atheist then. I'm sticking with past affairs. You could be an atheist with a fancy hat, but don't think atheism we default on being a fancy hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. They're not mutually acceptable. Not everyone get a hat that cool, right? And not every atheist has a head, right? Oh, what's up? What's up, Skye? Oh, well, actually, in surveying world religions, I have found that weird headgear and robes are very important. Yes, yeah, because you have to look the part, right? It's just costuming. It's part of the fantasy. It's like why, you know, handcuffs are so important for fetishes. What else can you do about it? Anyway, second one, let me eat my bacon. No, we know how to cook it safely. Like, come on, what are you doing? And I would say the third one is good reps. So like if everybody in Congress and in the leadership all look the same, there's a problem. Make sure that you have as much of a multifaceted approach in your advertising as you do your leadership, because it's that idea of compromise. It's that idea of empathy. It's you get it by living that experience. And if your leadership is informed by that, that could be a great thing. And so, yeah, I'd like to see a variation. I'd love to see diversity. I'd love to be able to eat my bacon and no headgear. And that would be my three things, my recs that I would give to our upcoming Rising of the Nun Pope Representation System for Atheism as a whole. Dred Pirate, what do you think? Well, like I said, I'm much more into fascitarianism and the rule of the Pirate's consensus. And that's that's what I would like to see in either the Nuns, the Atheists, or the Pastafarians. Nice, nice. And potlucks though. It seems like you need to have a lot of potlucks to keep everybody. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Nice. Well, that's great. I mean, food is good. Very, very cool. Very cool. Hear me out. Here's a weird thing. Sorry for this weird tangent. But is there a space pastafarian sect of pastafarians? So it's like, yes, ships are cool, but spaceships even cooler. We're going to get there. We're going to get there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to put it up to Elon Musk to name the first spaceship to Mars, the bounty. Yeah. All right. Eric Boudreau, what would be your final top three tips for our Pope Atheist system? Well, I think I came up to two of each while listening. Inclusion, I think, kind of slightly touches what you were saying too. But yeah, I mean, anyone could be a part of it. You don't have to. You probably shouldn't even have to be an atheist, you know? Oh, interesting. Bring in, welcome anyone. Yeah. And different different people. I'd say holidays. Let's get some holidays. Let's get some holidays. I mean, I love that. I want a day off. I mean, come on. You know, Easter is just it's the most boring holiday. I have my kids are old enough now we don't bother with the look on for eggs. And otherwise, there's nothing to it. So let's get a good and then I guess the two things we wouldn't want. I wouldn't want nothing that, you know, compel you to do things, the standing up. The, you know, if we had any kind of, you know, activity, you know, you do it if you want to. There's no, there's no pressure. And then I had another, another good one, but it escaped me. So can you imagine, can you imagine in the summer or early spring, leaving a hard boiled egg on the dirt behind some grass and then having kids run out with their dirty hands, searching through dirt, finding an egg and then the expectation is you're going to eat that egg. And it's like, why is this a holiday? We should get rid of this. And it's like, let's you have some good Easter candy and it's peeps. And that's all you got. No, no. Get rid of this holiday. Just get rid of it. There's nothing good about this. What's up? What's up? I was just going to say that up in British Columbia here, we have what is now called family day. And so that's a secular celebration. Here, here's my, here's my, here's my replacement tip. I would say call it tie dye shirt day where everybody just goes out and tie dye shirts and you can roll into family day. And it's still the Easter vibe, but like tying dyeing a shirt is always a fun activity. It's always fun. And then you get clothes afterwards. It's so cool. It's just like, yeah. Yeah. We're shooting for past over. Nice. We have talked like a pirate day. We do. Yes. Yes. That's a guy. October 15th. Oh, just wanted to remind you that Easter has chocolate. Every holiday has talked out of bunnies. Yes. And Valentine's Day. Just after Valentine's Day. What are you doing? Come on. Do you know why Easter bunny chocolates are hollow? No. It's to represent God's promises. Well played. Very good. Very good. George Brown, anything you would recommend as the atheist could do better in terms of? Well, I really, I can't because I'm passing a brain stone right now. I know you've been talking about better advertisement. How do we get the message out to non-believer? Oh, how do we? Yeah. How do we get respect from these people? I don't have an idea for that right now. Sure, sure, sure. But maybe the Pope will. Maybe the atheist Pope will. Maybe the Pope will, yeah. And can set it up for us. Larry, what's up? Well, I have three things, I think. First, no authoritarianism. They strictly represent themselves and atheism and they don't pass decrees, as it were, that are forced on anybody else. Now, there was a person who said, I remember who it was, said that we can't, we shouldn't have mean atheists. But the thing about it is, as Daniel Dennett said, there's simply no way to, no polite way to tell people they're dedicated their lives to an illusion. They're going to consider you mean if you question their beliefs, period. So we shouldn't worry about that. And as far as Easter goes, okay, forget the exit. I think we should throw Lego pieces out in the yard, have all the kids find them. And then after they find them, they all come back, combine them and then build something. How's that? That's pretty good. Okay, it sounds so good on paper until you step on a Lego piece where you're in the middle of September, and you're like, why did we come up with this holiday? What are you doing in the yard in the middle of September? Or are you finding your dogs? You can't find all the pieces. You can't find- Or you're finding your dog's poop a couple days later. Yeah, your dog can poop in the yard but you can't leave Lego. You put the Lego in there. You're still looking through your dog's poop. I have a brilliant idea to add on to this. You make the Lego pieces out of sugar. So it's still candy and you can still brick them together. Yeah. And that way it dissolves outside. Very close to ending. We need to go ahead and get final words. Dred, pirate. I'm going to go around and ask everyone what they'd recommend to see next week and then where can we find their stuff? Dred, pirate. Where can we find their stuff? And what would you recommend we check out before next week? Well, my stuff is I live stream this at 7 a.m. on Sunday mornings at 7 a.m. PDT Pacific Daylight Time. And my channel is Mind Pirate, M-I-N-D-P-Y-R-A-T-E. Check it out. If you like it, subscribe. And I am reading this book Breaking the Spell. Daniel Danitz, Breaking the Spell. Great, great read. He's a master writer and he really knows this stuff. So I'd recommend that. Nice. Boudreau, what do you recommend that we check out next week and if you're still making stuff where can we find it? Man, I'm not making any stuff. My dear friend, Chad White, hasn't talked to me since December 4th. Yeah, it just really, really, really hurt me. I don't get it. I got no closure. So I'm sad about that. But I did post in the chat about a link come to Kentucky in September for the Freethought Convention. You guys can all drive up or some of you can. Sorry, Dredd. And we have Monica Burns who's the chapter organizer of Black Non-Believers in Louisville and a bunch of other people. So check it out. Yeah. So I'll tell you this straight out. I may not go to the. I'm probably I'm not. I'm not going to the Freethought Convention, but I will head up to Kentucky sometime this year. And I'll probably time it at the time when both of us can go out and play some disc golf together. If you have. Disc golf, yeah. Hell, hell, hell, yeah. Hell, yeah. Or or volleyball. I'm down with both. I'm down with both. If you just want to hang out, I'm totally cool with that. I'm totally. We actually won our Marika's championship a couple weeks ago. Very, very cool. Guys, sky. Thank you so much for joining the show. It's always good to have you on. Go ahead. Do you have something you'd like to add? Oh, yeah. I have a Facebook page called the Nova Fitti and Bronicles. And it's a kind of irreverent atheist approach to the Bible, to God and to politics. And then I also have a Facebook group that I'd like to encourage everyone to join called humans for a kinder world. Very nice. George Brown, second and a half. Do you have anything you'd recommend we check out? No, I don't. I don't today. Thank you. OK, fair enough. Listen, I would recommend that you check out James Baldwin. He is a poet of the 1960s. What he's known for is being very critical of religion at a time when it was not only hard to do so as a white guy, particularly hard as a black guy. And he he used to be a Pentecostal preacher. He has a quote here that I like really well. It's in one of his plays. It says, if the concept of God has any validity or any use, it can only be to make us larger, freer and more loving. And if God can't do this, then it's time we get rid of him. And to say that as a black guy in the 1960s, that is that is some powerful justice going on right there. But James Baldwin, recommend you check out some of his poems. He's a really great playwright, too. Wrote some some like the cornerstones of what I grew up with. But anyway, you can find myself a Let's Chat. You're probably on YouTube right now. Feel free to leave a comment. We'll go through it next episode. And if you have any questions about Athens, then you don't know what it's about. Well, that's I'm sorry, we can't answer it. It's not like a book exists for that. So anyway, Larry, take us out. Sorry. Can't help you. Uh oh, he's on mute. He's on mute. He's on mute. He's basically going to say there's no way we can help you. But if you don't know what it is and all it's all about. Sorry. Right. No, my content can be found online at digitalfreethought.com. Be sure to click the blog button for a radio show, archives, atheists, songs and many articles on the subject. My YouTube channel can be found by searching for doubter five or Larry Rhodes. And my book is atheism. What's it all about? It's available on Amazon. If you're having trouble leaving religious beliefs behind, emotionally, logically, whatever, you can get help at recoveringfromreligion.org. You can find this show on Apple iTunes, Pocketcasts, Amazon and podcasts everywhere. Just search for digital free thought radio hour. Thank you for joining us. Remember, if you're watching this on YouTube, be sure to like and subscribe. And also remember, everybody is going to somebody else's hell. The time to worry about it is when they prove that heavens and hells and souls are real. Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life and we'll see you next week. Say bye, everybody. Bye, man. Bye, buddy. Bye, man. Great show, everybody.