 Welcome, Chair Robbers. Welcome Vice Mayor Alvarez. Can you go ahead and test your audio and video? Yes, can you see me? Can you hear me? See you in here. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome, Chair Rogers. We see you. Can we test that audio? It looks like we have quorum to call the meeting to order. So let's go ahead and call the meeting to order. Can we please take roll? Member McDonald is absent. Vice Mayor Alvarez. Thank you. Chair Rogers. Present. Thank you. Thank you. So we have no minutes. So actually we do have minutes to approve, but they are from 2021. And I'm not sure. Are we able to approve those if we were not present? You would need to abstain. You were not part of the subcommittee, if I recall. No. Nor was McDonald's, who of course is absent. That is a great question. If actually Stephanie, if I may call on you for this question, if we have a total of members who could approve, actually were not are unable to approve. So it's my understanding that you can still approve minutes, even if you weren't at the meeting so long as you read the minutes in the packet. And maybe watch the video just to make sure that everything if you haven't done that, I would maybe hesitate to approve them, but you don't actually have to have been at the meeting. All right, so I'm going to request that we go ahead and table the approval of the minutes until our next meeting, so that we now know how to officially approve the minutes. Is that okay with you, Vice Mayor Alvarez. Well, Chair, it's also my recommendation that you can actually approve the meeting, the minutes if there are no objections, you just give a couple seconds for anyone to object. And if no one does object, they can be approved. It's my understanding it's definitely please correct me if I'm wrong in my, in my assessment. That is correct. All right. So, we're going to approve the minutes unless we see an objection to do so. With no objection, the minutes will be approved as is. Thank you, Vice Mayor. We'll now go to item four, which is public comment. Can you please explain to the public how they can make a public comment. Thank you. Those who are calling in via soon, you can go ahead and virtually raise your hand for public comment. And if you are calling in, you can press star nine to also virtually raise your hand. You will have three minutes to speak once I present the timer, which you can be seen on the screen. The first hand that we have raised for public comment is from Gregory fear and Gregory, I have given you permission to speak. Do you see the time on your screen. Gregory are unable to hear you are, are you able to unmute your microphone. Gregory will come back to in just a minute we're going to go ahead and take the next raised hand for public comment, which is caller. Caller four, nine, eight, seven, caller four, nine, eight, seven, I have given you permission to speak. Can you see the timer on your screen. Hello, can you hear me. Yes, we can. Hi, my name is Dwayne Dewitt. I'm from Roseland. I'm unable to get on to this zoom because I don't have a home computer and the libraries close at six o'clock. So members of the public can't use the system there. So I have concerns about after watching the presentation earlier in the day through the computer at the library looking at it, that the mandate that originally came up so many years ago for this open government task force has been forgotten in a way. And because you've created a bureaucracy, the bureaucracy is essentially going by what it wants rather than what the public desired eight years ago when Andy Lopez had been killed. And there was great consternation within the public about how difficult it is to get information from our government. So an excellent example just occurred with you folks, approving the minutes of a meeting that occurred and none of you were there. And then saying, well, we'll see if somebody objects, but there was no way for anybody in the public being told how they might want to object to that and say you should wait until the public could know which minutes you were going to be talking about. That wasn't even something I could see earlier today. Long story short, folks, I attended the early meetings of the open government task force. You can go back and see the videos and know that we were there. Always striving to have as much information in an open and transparent manner so there would be good accountability for government. I trust you new folks there. And I understand Mr Alvarez and Miss Rogers are getting things going for themselves. Now they've been there in less than two years. But the bureaucracy at the city of Santa Rosa has been around for decades and it is not about transparency and accountability and public involvement, civic engagement. Words bantied about and actions are never really taken. You've got to walk the talk. If you folks are going to throw those words around, please at least do two new members on the council start pushing the rest to do what they say. It's really something you could get going and would build a lot of trust in the community. That's what's really necessary because there's lots of folks in Santa Rosa that do not trust anyone in Santa Rosa City government. I trust Mr Alvarez and Miss Rogers and I'm hoping they'll be more to trust in the future. So please take these words to heart and good luck to you and your efforts for open government and as much actual authentic community engagement as possible. Good night. I can't stay for the whole meeting. Trying to do it on a phone doesn't really work by now. Thank you. The next hand raised for public comment. We'll be going back to Gregory fear and Gregory trying to give you permissions. Are you able to your microphone. We still be having some technical issues will be moving down to Eric Frazier Eric Frazier I have given you permission to speak. Do you see the three minute time on your phone. I do. Wonderful. Okay, your time begins now. Thank you very much and good evening to chair Rogers and vice mayor Alvarez. I didn't want to miss the opportunity to address you and thank you very much for allowing me three minutes. Of course, you recognize me for being involved in the short term rental issue and perhaps you also know me for my leadership in my neighborhood and getting things trying to get things done with sidewalks and what have you and so I don't know what that is. Sorry. Okay, so sort of threw me off there for a minute but immediately from our experience as being short term rental operators in downtown Santa Rosa, it sort of launched me into this that need to understand what was going on, both civically on behalf of my gas but also with government when it comes to taxation, how money spent, how the tourism industry is supported and so on and so forth. And so I come from sort of an organic and authentic place when I critique and try to put two and two together when it comes to government policymaking. And I have to say what I witnessed with short term rentals was a total abdication of the principles of open government. I mean, this was a back room deal that was hammered out months in advance without public involvement from the people that were involved that could have educated the process. And what we have on our hands is like a neighborhood confrontation, conflagration I should say with these signs and some of the things that city government has done to exacerbate the problems and that's totally evaded any like real issues that we'd want to mitigate. It's really quite embarrassing and it's quite embarrassing that it's all part of this era of what's called open government. We can't have a government we can't have a government function like this. So, even though it's the usual suspects that stand up and deliver live public comment. Perhaps you saw that, you know, I was able to mobilize a lot of people and there's a lot of people that are waking up to the fact that government policy can't be made on BS we can't do that. And we need to understand important issues like race relations equality or equity, you know, the ability for personal economies to thrive, all these types of conversations are so important. And they're so abused. When we go against the principles of open government. And so please take that the heart I know you're good people. I enjoy the conversations we have but we have to come to a factual understanding and setting policy. That's legal and above board. And thank you very much for your time I appreciate addressing you thank you. Okay, we're going to go back to public comment for Gregory fear and Gregory I have given you the permission to speak do you see the timer on your screen. Hello, folks. This is Pat cuta. I'm using Gregory fear and account and I didn't realize can you hear me. Yes, we can hear you. Thank you. Great. We happen to live in the same house and use one account so I didn't realize it was that way so I would like to take a brief moment to acknowledge that this meeting has is the first meeting of the open government task force in the calendar in 2022. And I'm really relieved that there's been some mobilization and that you're going to be working on further implementation and expansion of the vision and the scope of the report. I'd like to say that before this meeting is over I would really like to know if this is there will be a planned monthly meeting or by monthly meeting but really establish a work plan working plan for this committee. I would very much like when a work plan is established that this committee request to study study session at the city council to really re raise the visibility of the work of this committee I think it's incredibly important and quite a bit of work needs to be done. Lastly, I would hope that there's an opportunity to speak after the staff presentation. I'm a member of Santa Rosa together and we've done a thorough analysis of the open government task force report recommendations and we'd like to be able to address our opinions or our analysis of what's actually work that still needs to be done or questions specifically. Activities in the report that in the original report that may not be addressed by the staff report so we'd like very much that opportunity. Thank you. Thank you very much. There are no other hands up. Well, Pat you are raising your hand but you did just speak so at this time for item four we cannot allow you to speak again. So we no longer have any hands raised for public comment. I'm wondering if Gregory is trying to talk now on Pat's login. Can we just double check host to make sure that is not the case. Of course. Thank you. Gregory, did you want to present public comment? Yeah. Okay, one more please. Do you see the timer on your screen for three minutes? Yes, I do. Wonderful. Your timer begins now. We're going to get this together on Ari and do not have both of us saying the same thing but basically I just want to chime in and double down on what Pat said and to thank you all first of all for joining this committee. We have high expectations of ourselves and of you and this is yet another opportunity for you to serve the committee and the community and I thank both of you and Diana for agreeing to be on the committee. It's important work as Pat said and that's all I really wanted to say. Thanks a lot. Thank you. And at this time there are no hands raised for public comment. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for that participated and gave a public comment. I do want to acknowledge Mr. DeWitt's comment about the meeting minutes of August 23 2021 and go back to item three. So if there is an objection to item three approval of the minutes for August 23 2021 regular meeting minutes, please raise your hand. And if not, we will adopt the minutes as approved. We do have one hand raised for objection. Can we please acknowledge that hand and unmute that person to see what their objection is? Of course. Hello, can you hear me? Yes. Oh, I'm learning how to use my flip phone to participate in government meetings. It's an adventure. I still don't have any opportunity to read those minutes. And the purpose of written minutes are not just to inform the elected officials or the appointed officials of the various bodies and jurisdictional agencies, but also the public, the taxpayers. So I have no way to see those minutes. I'm not trying to hold up your progress, but I think you could continue those minutes until the next meeting and make them available for the members of the public to be able to see it Santa Rosa City Hall. I appreciate your patience with such a room from Roseland and old technical lead I perhaps, but we still pay taxes and participate in the government. So whenever you'll let us participate in the government, I should say, with that in mind, I would ask you to begin to open up all these meetings to be held a city hall again in public allowing the public to participate live and in person. Thank you for your time. All right. Thank you, Mr do it for your comment. Because the meetings were the minutes were posted in advance as was agreed upon in the ordinance I believe we will not hold it over to the next to the next meeting. But we will proceed with adopting adopting the minutes. I would recommend that we I do apologize to Rogers there is another hand raised. No, not for my apologies. We do have Eric Frazier Eric Frazier I'm going to unmute your microphone. You can go ahead and provide your public comment on the minutes. Thank you very much. Just just briefly I won't take a lot of time but I just checked over on the online agenda item, and I didn't see them minutes posted there as an item on the agenda maybe I missed it. I know that Dwayne's really approaching us in a very lead I fashion I'm not sure why he's not more sophisticated with technology but his point is valid. I mean I'm pretty reasonable with technology I'm right here and I just can't find that document so I mean he probably does have that point and this is about open government so thank you very much. Thank you. Can you confirm that the minutes I see them. The minutes are not posted. They are posted in the agenda and on the legislative calendar. Chair. Yes, sir. I did want to clarify that you and I actually were present during that meeting. Yet, the actual change that has happened since then is that mayor Rogers has removed himself from the open task and replaced himself with council member McDonald and at that time you were vice mayor and, and I was counseling just because I heard the statement being made prior just want to clarify that, apart from whether minutes were posted online. Thank you. Correct, correct. All right. So, vice mayor Alvarez do you have any objections. No, I stayed before I do not have any objections, but I believe that that your, your inquiry to whether they're posted online or not was valid. Thank you. Okay. All right. So the minutes will be approved. I'll move on to the next agenda item, which is item five, 5.1 presentation of the open government task force recommendations. Implementation status staff will provide an update. And I just want to let the public know that they will have an opportunity to comment on this agenda item and Santa Rosa together. We welcome your comments and input on this item. Once the staff have completed their presentation. Thank you. All right. Thank you, chair Rogers. I'm Danielle Cardino. I'm the administrative analyst for the Santa Rosa violence prevention partnership. Former community engagement coordinators. I just wanted to make a note of that. I am no longer with the community engagement program. Not serving with the violence prevention partnership. And we are actively recruiting for that position for the community engagement coordinator. So please pass that along to your community members. Next slide please. All right. So as the former community engagement coordinator, I think in our department, I've been here the longest and hold some of this historical information, although I wasn't here in 2014. So just want to make a note of that. The original mayor's open government task force was formed in 2014, January 2014 by Mayor Scott Bartley and utilize the process of community engagement, informal discussions and hearings from local and state leaders on the subjects of communication and community engagement. And throughout the process or throughout the meetings that became apparent that within our community, there was a sense of growing mistrust and frustration with city government. And the task force itself concluded that the city, despite adhering to and at times exceeding the state's legal requirements, it still had a lot of critical work to do in these areas. Openness and engagement should be become a city priority in order to meet changing expectations of the community and that's directly from the report. So to move forward, the task force created a list of recommendations that they compelled into a report. And really what community members were asking for, which then led to these recommendations for improved communications, improved collaboration, access to decision makers and further voices to be acknowledged in efforts respected during the governmental decision making processes. So these recommendations, again, were created in a report which were presented to City Council on December 2, 2014. Next slide, please. And so they came up with a set of immediate actions for council to take, including a council goal of open and transparent government, which the council did make a goal, previous council goal around that time and has had that goal for quite a few years now. Until recently, which was to provide community safety, valued city services and open government. Most recently that has been that the goals have been updated on the priorities for the City Council. Although I still feel it fits within that, that sixth goal that council has achieving organizational excellence, which is creating a high performing organization that is proactive, fiscally sound, promotes diversity, equity inclusion and reliably. Delivers outstanding service services to the community. They also had a recommendation of setting three strategic objectives for the organization, which were to hire a communications director. Adopt a sunshine ordinance based on their recommendations and to create a city mission, which embraces community engagement. Now they did two of these. They did hire, not a communications director at first, but a community engagement director was hired in October 2015. And then has seen several iterations. So we had that director and then a second director hired in March of 2017. And now a deputy director who's hired Magali hired in July of 2020. In addition to that, so that particular position was really created to hold both community engagement and communications and they quickly realized that that was not realistic for that one position. And so in January of 2018, the communication aspect of that position was drawn out and the communications and intergovernmental relations officer position was hired or was created. And that person recently left and now the second officer has been hired as of this month. He just started along Peterson if you haven't met him. Really great guy and can't wait to see what he does with that office. We also adopted an open government ordinance in December of 2020. However, that third bullet point there, the creating a city mission statement, which is embraces community engagement on the state cities mission statement has stayed rather static. Since this report was created and has not included the term community engagement within within this mission. So just wanted to point that out. Next slide please. So their first or I'm sorry their second goal was to develop a culture that values public engagement and that was broken down into several different objectives. Objective 2.1 was to genuinely engage and partner with neighborhoods, volunteers, businesses, institutions and other organizations that support our community. And a lot of these recommendations have been implemented in a variety of ongoing just different projects and programs. So not exactly anything that's been ongoing, but it's seen they've been seen in a variety of different things that we do. So, for example, coordinate uses volunteer citywide. And so our recreation team has their own volunteer program. And then in 2017 we hired our very first AmeriCorps VISTA. That was to take an example of what parks was doing and really elevate that across the organization. And every year since then we have had AmeriCorps VISTA connecting Sonoma State University and SRJC students to volunteer opportunities here at the city, as well as internships and direct service learning projects. And they've also engaged our community partners through the violence prevention partnership. So really connecting those students from those two educational institutions to volunteer opportunities, not only with our organization but also with our community partners. In addition to that, item 2.1c and d also look for opportunities to form partnerships with other community organizations and neighborhood groups and create opportunities for partnerships and ask for help in getting people engaged. We've done a lot of that work through the violence prevention partnership through the neighborhood program and most recently through the community empowerment plan in our listening sessions and the way that our team has really gone and engaged most recently with our community using a trauma and blunt lens. Next slide, please. So continuing with that particular objective, there was a lot of feedback around the community advisory board and needing to improve their processes and really elevate the work that they do to give them more meaningful tools to move their work forward. And so one of that was to clarify their role in our mission, which we did through a strategic planning process in 2018. They developed a mission, a vision, strategic categories and objectives. And currently right now they are going through the process of refreshing that strategic plan given that it was kind of derailed through the pandemic and hasn't really got back up on its feet yet. They are educating an outreach about participatory governments. They are helping us through the Civic 101 video projects, but also coming up with their own ways in educating the community about how to participate and why participating in local government is so important. And they also have one of their strategies as to create a citizen engagement academy, although they haven't prioritized that for this year. They had some momentum before the pandemic and again, that kind of knocked it off its feet. So we're hoping they can get that back up within the next year or so. So talking with the team council, unfortunately, that we don't have a budget for that and we don't have the staffing resources here at the office of community engagement, although we're very interested in getting the team council back up and going and there was interest from the cab and having you know, mentoring youth so that they can learn about how to get involved in city boards and commissions. But again, we just haven't gotten there yet with that. And then the last two emergency preparedness and regular communications with council, the emergency preparedness piece had we began implementing neighbor fest with the help of the cab. However, because of the pandemic they have indefinitely suspended that and we're not sure if that's something they want to get back up and going again. And then the regular communications with council that's ongoing. All cab members are supposed to be connecting with their appointing council members as well as doing regular presentations on their strategic plan implementation. And then the last two here again we restructured cab and through their strategic planning in 2018. And the last one built on the excellent engagement model of the Santa Rosa violence prevention partnership. Our previous director had tried to do this through neighbor fest, but again she left, unfortunately so kind of lost that momentum and then again the cab suspended neighbor fest because of the pandemic. Next slide please. So this particular objective or I'm sorry, recommendation. It's broken down into a variety of different points here and the work that we do here in community engagement we really try to be very intentional with the engagement that we're doing but also again I mentioned we're using a new approach to using a trauma informed lens. And so I think you see some of these points coming through in the work that we're currently doing so actively recruiting diverse and few points and not just us either I mean you see this in the work that planning and the planning team did or has been doing through the Santa Rosa forward or the general plan update. Involving citizens and structured facilities, small group discussions we did that with our community empowerment plan we did that when we did. We're trying to get feedback on site show activity happening throughout Santa Rosa utilizing small listening sessions and focus groups with our community members. And giving participants in these meetings opportunities to compare values and experiences. We saw that a lot in the community encounter plan listening sessions. We've got to hear a lot of viewpoints that historically we have not heard here in Santa Rosa. It was the first time that I had ever been a part of something like that and I think a lot of our staff it was the first time they'd been part of a process like that and producing tangible actions and outcomes. We are in the process of creating not only a community engagement toolkit for our staff to utilize as a way to streamline our engagement processes throughout the organization, but also how how do we, how do we loop back to our community what does that feedback look like. Next slide please. 2.2 under goal to establish down Rosa's leader in civic engagement with the goal of increasing openness transparency and accountability and again this came with a variety of different sub points here. So 2.2 1 recommendations for increasing transparency so develop a cross departmental framework in order to institutionalize a more collaborative approach to engagement. We're currently working on that as we speak. And I've asked my golly to jump in here and there to talk about the most current work that we're doing. We're going to be seeing a lot of this coming through the equity plans that the city is currently working on. And golly, I don't know if you want to jump in there and talk a little bit about the community engagement and communications pieces of that. Sure. Thank you Danielle. My early days here. Deputy director for the office of community engagement. Yeah, we as Danielle mentioned through the community empowerment plan. We really started to dive deeper into communities who don't have general access. We're looking at communities who don't usually participate in government and actively seeking them out in an intentional way and through the seed collaborative city equity task force, which is a collaboration or collective of different departments in the city. Our group is going to be reviewing communications and community engagement. So we're going to be looking at how, you know, how does the city, what are the current policies and procedures, and where are the gaps. How do we identify the groups of folks that inadvertently are being left out due to the current processes and how do we adjust those processes so that we are, we are not doing that and also addressing things like language access, addressing things like technology access, addressing, you know, the intention in which we seek out folks and going beyond the current modalities that are being used. So we are in the process that we will be actually presenting those recommendations coming from our communications community engagement also culture in addition to fire and police, they will have their own plans and those will be going up to council in September. So I just wanted to give you a sneak peek but I don't want to let the bag all of the cat all the way out of the bag as they say right so I was going to say the bag out of the cat whichever you prefer. Thank you, Megali. And some of these other items here expanding use of city emails, electronic newsletters, so on and so forth. We've done the communications team or the communications and intergovernmental relations office, also known as CERO around here. They have done a tremendous amount of work over the last several years and really elevating our communications and and how we communicate and give information out to the community and so one of those things is establishing city connections newsletter which was first developed in response to our wildfires in 2017. And then kind of it was on a monthly basis and then it went when the pandemic hit to a weekly basis and so now here we are. We have a weekly newsletter that goes out to over 100,000 subscribers is probably on the lower I think it's a little bit higher like 120,000 is I believe what the current number is. And we also utilize that same list during times of emergency. So when there is an emergency we need to get a lot of information out pretty quickly we use that city connections list to get that information out as well. All right. So continuing on with that recommendation. So D was to create strategically located and electronic bilingual kiosk for public information. This through our previous director was decided we were not going to do because of the costs associated with that particular recommendations pretty costly to get those kiosks throughout the city. So that has not happened overall the city website has been that was done in 2017. I there's been a lot of feedback from the community about how we could do better with our websites want to keep that in mind and encourage the next charter review committee to continue to explore district elections and pay for council so district elections came about in 2018 so check that off. And I believe pay for council was discussed in this last charter review process. Next slide please. Continuing on to the next objective. Close the communication loop. So acknowledge the value of community input wisdom and participation and my colleague and I had had frequent conversations about how we best. We do that community anytime we do any type of community engagement process. So make time at the beginning of council meetings for public comment and believe first public comment is no later than 5pm. And then close the command communication loop I talked about that previously about the toolkit and different ways in which our staff can close that communication loop including utilizing our no longer new it's been around for about a year and a half. Now our let's connect online engagement platform which is a really great way to combine both in person engagement with a digital platform and having the having follow up feedback available through that that platform. Foster spirit of collaboration and problem solving and decision making. Again we saw that a lot through the community empowerment plan. Some point when we are a whole team again we'll get back to it with our community engagement strategic plan. Communication is in times of crisis again. We need significant improvement. I think we've come a long way since 2014 and our time and what we learned in the 2017 wildfires and continuing on through the pandemic and subsequent fires that we've had since 2017 we learned a lot and we've made quite a bit of improvements there. Maybe there's more improvements that could be made. I'm not sure. Be great to get our communications officer in these conversations to talk about ways in which we can improve our communication in times of crisis. And then starting critical conversations earlier with the community and hold such meetings at times and places conducive to public participation. So again responding to the protests in 2020. Our team but through the community community empowerment plan held a series of community listening sessions sessions. We're figuring out how to weave that through our strategic plan. I know that the general plan update that team did a pretty pretty good job at starting the process a lot earlier. Holding informational sessions even before the planning began for that particular project and so on and so forth. We still have work to do around that. But I think again we've come a long way and where we start with our various programs from projects and services and how we're engaging the community in those next slide please. Alright 2.4 increased opportunities for diverse community engagement and effective participation. So some of these we have done some our team specifically some of the things cab has done. So give the communications director the responsibility and authority to work within city organization and active to activate and promote more effective public engagement. I think that's done both collaboration between the deputy director of community engagement as well as our communications officer. Hold meetings at various locations throughout the city. We have been doing that a lot more since we've had district elections. We also have our online engagement platform again to where if people can't make it in person and they still want to engage. They can still engage in some of those projects utilizing that platform. And going beyond the conventional feedback tools again that platform has a variety of different tools that go beyond community meetings and surveys. This neighborhood groups to organize and engage. This is actually one of cabs objectives in their strategic plan to get off the ground. They would it's not their number one priority but they would like to get this back up and moving again in the next year or so. And make use of neighborhoods neighborhood apps such as next door. The city does this on a regular basis of the communications team. The communications team utilizes next door for a variety of different projects and services and schedule quarterly public forums and town hall meetings and city council that has not been implemented yet in different districts. It is something that I know that that some community members have asked for even currently and we've heard from a few different council members that this is something they might want to do. However, I think we should think about, you know, our quarterly public forums or town hall meetings the most effective use of our time is it most cost effective. We've seen in the past year or so getting back out into community and doing in person events. It's, it's still a challenge to get people to come in person when we're still dealing with COVID and a variety of other things and people are busy. So it's real difficult for them to get out and come out to to meeting. So we might want to think about how we do that moving forward. Next slide please. We're continuing on increasing outreach through media events webcast surveys. Again, our communications team is doing a really fabulous job with getting information out as well as collecting information from the community, as well as our team as well. So the crisis focus on two way communication. Our team, you know, community engagement isn't, we haven't focused on this. This is more of the, the zero team as well as our emergency management team, making public noticing more understandable moving away from government speak, but golly talked about this. There's a lot of work around stuff like this in those equity plans that will be coming forward talking about language access and how do we make things more understandable for the public. So I want to explore how technology can increase accessibility at council meetings. I know that city clerk's office did a lot of work through the pandemic to make make council meetings more accessible as well as a variety of different ways people could make public comments and participate in the meetings. Explore organizing city government in a way that better meets the needs of residents and making the website resident centric. Those are some of the things that we need to I think continue working on next slide please. 2.5 build a strong civic infrastructure and educate people how to best engage. So we're currently in the process of developing our guidebook to participating in local governments. We have a draft complete and it's currently being reviewed. We also have our civic 101 video series which are in development. We just hired a video production company to help us film and produce those videos in collaboration with the community advisory board. So we should hopefully have those. I'm hoping by the end of the year although I don't want to make any promises. And that'll complement the guidebook moving forward. And then again the cab has it in the strategic plan to implement a citizen's academy or community engagement academy although they haven't made it a priority currently as they're coming back and getting legs back on their strategic plan. Next slide please. And so these recommendations here have not been implemented. These really center around how we best collaborate with our school districts to include curriculum that focus on civic participation and exploring how our educational institutions can be a partner with us. And so again just due to lack of resources and staffing has not been a priority and has not been direction from city council. Next slide please. And then moving on to goal 3 develop a culture focused on communications again I talked about the communications director and his history behind that and overhauling the city's website that was done in 2017. Again we also launched let's connect in 2021 to give us a more interactive engagement platform that people could participate in. And next slide please. And finally goal 4 develop policies that promote openness. So, again, as I mentioned before council adopted the open government ordinance in December of 2020. And these two is two recommendations. They're all encompassed within that particular ordinance. And I believe I have here the guidebook to participation with government is part of that ordinance. And again that is forthcoming hopefully this year. We'll get there. And with that, I believe that that's I will turn it back over to the chair. I would like to thank Daniel for that presentation. So, that does conclude the scheduled items for 5.1. And I would like to divert a little bit if it's okay with Vice mayor Alvarez and the host and Sue. I would like to get some feedback from the participants that we have today. I think that that is what we call open government. So, to have another public comment so that people can identify their priorities. Maybe the top five to help give us some direction. And these can be objectives that are already marked, but you don't feel like they are complete or that we can have some more work, you know, put some more work into it. But also some suggestions. I like it when people complain, but I like it more when people have suggestions about how we can make things better. And then objectives that have not been met. If those are in your top five priorities. And Sue, do you have any objections to that or am I out of order? No, that's fine. I do want to make sure that you will be giving the public the opportunity to specifically address the presentation from 5.1. It sounds like these are things that you would like people to think about and maybe address when they give their public comments on 5.1. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thanks. So, host, if we can open it up for a public comment, and I would like to start with the representative from Santa Rosa together if that is okay. We have several hands raised. I don't know who specifically is representing Santa Rosa together. If that's who you would like to hear first. I would be Pat Gregory. Perfect. We'll start with them. I have, I believe this first one that we are allowing to speak is Pat. Pat, I have given you permission to undone your microphone. Thank you. Perfect. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. I'll go ahead and start your time. Are you seated on the screen? Correct. Thanks. This is Pat Cuda from Santa Rosa together. And I had mentioned that our organization had was actually watched the original hearings and was very much involved in the recommendations that were developed by the council. I would like to say that the vision of the report was not let's set up a community engagement department and make them do all the work. So I feel like much of the response in the report does not reflect the intention to have more citywide cultural impact on how the city does its business. So I would like to see a progress report that really in ongoing progress reports on implementation that include citywide efforts. I'm particularly interested in the seed initiative and how that will impact the work of the city and the culture of the city, which I think would be a great addition to the focus of this committee. Several comments I'd like to make and I'm sure there are others and if there are others in the audience that are looking at the Santa Rosa together analysis, they can bring them up too. I think that I want to talk about civic engagement around emergency preparedness. I feel like having a couple of neighbor fests that are one time emergency preparedness is woefully short of what our goal should be, which is a citywide focus and plan to implement emergency preparedness in every neighborhood and every district in the county. That's a huge effort and I don't think it should be on the backs of the community advisory board volunteers alone without significant investment. And I think we have heard since we have lived through many crises since 2014. And I think we can all agree that this is should be a citywide effort. So I'd like to make that point. I feel like the address of the recommendations of Matt Leninger, which were very deeply assessed by the original committee, were very much underrepresented in this report. And I would like to see the committee dig deeper into that. The website and closing the communication loop. I think it's a very fruitful discussion for you to have. How do you get back to community when they are giving you input? And how do we, how is that transparent and available to all to see? There was also acknowledgement of a establishment of a participatory budget process, which this report did not address. I know there was some discussion in early 2017, but I would like to see that come before your committee again. What are the opportunities because you're not addressing it? There was also some comments about they might not allowed to speak. I will defer that to the chair, but three minutes for public comment. Pat, you can continue, but if you can wrap it up, that would be okay. There was a mention of an ombuds person in the report that was not addressed in the staff report. I would like to severely, no, I strongly recommend that the cab and or the department, community engagement department be much more focused on assessing, assisting neighborhood groups to organize and engage. I think that there has not been nearly enough effort and most of it has been a pretty simple neighbor fest. Like I said, a one time, one effort initiated by the neighborhood. I think it's going to need a lot more support. I really think quarterly town hall meetings are going to grow as part of the culture. People may not be attending because they don't know. And I think it's really, really important. I would like to find ways that the less connect access be findable on the website. I myself who pretty sophisticated have a hard time finding less let's connect. So I think it's a great tool. It just is not particularly accessible. And then lastly, really an ongoing progress report on the report should come to this committee and it should reflect the city wide efforts and not just one department. Thank you. Thank you. Our next public comment will be for Gregory fear and Gregory. I've given you permission to speak. Do you see the time on your screen? Yes, I do. Thank you. First, I want to thank Danielle and the committee, I mean, the department for trying to get to all the things that are in the open government task force report. But as as they were delivering as Danielle was delivering the sort of first take at how much they have accomplished. I was I had split my screen and I was looking at what we came up with objective by objective. And honestly, I think you gave yourself a lot more progress than actually happened. I think you had something like 22 checkmarks, which I would interpret as, you know, having accomplished. That's the way I read it. I may be mistaken, but I only had about four or five of those checkmarks that I could agree that you'd, you know, done anything on the rest of it was pretty much we had written in progress. And mostly it was just recognizing and having some dialogue at the cab level and maybe trying to talk about it in the strategic planning, but never really getting to it. I don't see that as accomplishing anything. I think that's just, you know, as Dwayne and others would say it's sort of get along or go along to get along. It was just talking about things. You never really got to about two thirds of the things that were in the open government task force. And maybe it's just a, you know, our interpretation. But remember, we were all there trying to make this happen. And so when we when we talked about trying to change culture, we talked about trying to open up neighborhood access. It wasn't a matter of talking about it. It was actually doing it. And I'll give some illustrations. You know, when, when, when Danielle was talking about how well they did communications and how many mailing lists they were using and how much they were doing for, you know, for the things in the, in the report, it wasn't about the city putting out stuff. It was about helping neighborhood groups use the mailing lists and helping them connect with each other. This, this is still a woefully inadequate one-sided talk to the community kind of attitude that I'm sorry, but that's what it comes through as. It doesn't come through as partnering with the community. It doesn't come through as understanding that, you know, the Leninger's attitude. It doesn't really talk about trying to build the real cultural change. It talks about, and I can understand not having enough money. I can understand. I mean, we were the ones who got you the department, who got you 250,000 for a website. You know, we went to bat for you eight years ago to try to set this up. And honestly, I don't give you the kind of, you know, grades that you give yourselves. And so we're looking to take either your grade, your scorecard or our scorecard or some combination and please look at it a lot more intensively as to what was the purpose of it and are you meeting that purpose? Not just are you talking about getting there. This, the staff and the committee, it seems to me, spends far more time talking about, you know, the sunshine ordinance than you talked about anything at all. And I am glad you moved it up a day. But I mean, that's not enough to really justify having either a department or promoting that you actually did something to the ordinance. Thank you. The next public comment will be for Eric Frazier. Eric, I have given you permission to speak. Do you see the timer on your screen? I do. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's nice to be giving comments where other people are equally as impassioned. Seriously, we have a problem when it comes to open government in Santa Rosa. First, I wanted to apologize. I did double check the platform. I did see the minutes and I didn't mean to challenge you on that earlier agenda item. I'm very sorry about that. But perhaps that really does prove Dwayne's point, though, about using technology and accessing information. And it sort of proves also that here's a member of the community bringing forward what his needs are specifically. And he doesn't necessarily want to challenge all around. He's just saying, look, can documents be available at City Hall or whatever his needs are. In fact, can somebody get him a laptop? But I digress. When it comes to the presentation and overall what's going on with open government, this is why we support Santa Rosa together from Greater Cherry Street Neighborhood Association and my neighbors. So I'm not just a one-trick pony when it comes to short-term rentals. The short-term rentals actually forced me from my neighbors to head up a neighborhood group to found and head up a neighborhood group. We have an outreach of about 600 people and basically Google groups. The STR thing meant that I had to all of a sudden snap to and organize about 600 people that are property owners and managers of STR. And we'll just amplify that for visitors because that's really an important aspect of understanding that community. When we do lay STRs against all the stuff that's being served up to us now, we see a complete failure. I mean, it's really an F minus. Where there was neighborhood group organization, they're actually used politically against STR regulation making. And it's just sort of an interesting phenomena when you examine public records. The training over things that are needed now are, like for instance, how people can access public records because that's so needed to keep everybody in line apparently, but also how to participate. And these things are not things that need years and years and years to have a solution in the business world they're addressed within days or weeks. I mean, come on now. There just seems to be a bunch of like meal making, but nothing's being served. And again, using the STR lines, we can see where things are purposely manipulated under the guise of open government. And that can't stand. Furthermore, I know the people that are involved in this call, and I would definitely say that people that are in the audience in this day and age usually weigh no far more than the people that are moderating the discussion. And as much as I respect everybody on this call and want to learn more about their assets and attributes and learn from them, again, this is an F minus effort. Why are we spending the timeless way? We can be and do so much better. How do we do that? Thank you very much, Eric. The next public comment will be from Dwayne Dwayne. I have given you permission to speak. Do you see the timer on your screen? Can you hear me? Hi, yes. We can hear you. Do you see the timer on your screen for three minutes? I don't have that. I have a flip phone. I'm fortunate to be at someone's house and they're allowing me to listen. Okay, well, we'll go ahead and start your screen. Go ahead. I'd like to say thank you to the subcommittee and to the members of the staff that are working on trying to pursue authentic community engagement. It's a difficult task and any bureaucracy there is going to be the way things are done and then what the public that pays for the bureaucracy might hope they'd be done. I'm of the eternal optimist approach. I've been coming to meetings with Santa Rosa City since 1994 when the city set up shortly thereafter, about a year after, the community action team called the CAT team and ever since that time, the circular discussion by various city employees, elected officials and others has been more about process than about the actual opportunity to have community members come in and talk for a while with you about the things that are needed in their areas. Did you know in the past that public comment wasn't actually just limited to three minutes? In many means it was five minutes and at the discretion of the chair discussions could happen back and forth with members of the community and whatever local body to try to make it more proactive towards community involvement. I believe with all my heart, authentic community engagement could be achieved if we got past the idea that it's someone's job. It's actually why people are elected to office to empower the community that they quote represent. So I would hope that you elected officials would be the ones who embrace authentic community engagement, reach out to those of us who come to meetings and try to participate in a positive proactive manner because people bring different ideas to the table doesn't mean that they're just critics and just complaining. They're trying to use whatever limited means are available to members of the public to participate in a positive manner. The thing that could be most helpful right now with this organization and this subcommittee is if you followed up on an activity that's recently begun where you hold some meetings and feed the public, let them come and you listen to them rather than have the public have to listen to you and your paid staff and your presentations. Two city planners have started to do something like that. It would really be a wonderful thing if city council members including you committee members had office hours and let people come and talk with you not in a time limited manner where it's all about okay thank you your time is up now get out instead it was like hey we're glad you're here let's talk about how we're going to work on things and use this taxpayers money to better our community. I think that's why every member of the public that's here today is participating because they want to better our community. We may have different points of view we may have better or worse in my case technological capacity but it's still all about being a democracy in America and making it the best we can for the city of Santa Rosa and that now includes my community of Roseland and we were told for decades it was going to happen but we had to wait until we'd be treated the same as the rest of the people of Santa Rosa. Well now we're in the city of Santa Rosa for almost five years and we're still waiting to see when we'll get treated as well as the rest of the folks. You folks can be the ones that change that especially those two council members from the west side of Santa Rosa now's a wonderful time and I just want to be grateful and I hope you folks won't be hateful all the best to you thank you. Thank you very much. Our next public comment will be from Renee Riggs. Renee I have given you permission to speak do you see the timer on your screen? Renee please unmute yourself. Oh yeah can you hear me now? We can yes do you see the timer on your screen? Yes I do thank you. I really wasn't planning to speak but after listening to everybody and and I am a member of Santa Rosa together so these are all my compatriots here and I think I mean you can hear their frustration and we've all been doing this back and forth for many years and you know to me it's not so much a matter of any more of people of the staff listening and we have opportunities to speak with you I think what would really make such a difference if we could say okay now what now what I mean I'm not sure that we're saying anything different the open government task force implementation you know these are the things we've been saying for years as Gregory said Pat said Dwayne so it's really a matter of you've heard them we're saying the same things but how do we actually implement anything and yes we've seen the implementation subcommittee checks and everything but you know it's going to be years at this pace if we don't figure out how to do a better job of implementing and implementing quicker quicker and it doesn't have to be you know everything all at once but if we could just start and just figure out you know what you know again neighborhood fest neighborhood fest was great but that was it was one time and that was done if we could have regular neighborhood convocations like that where the neighborhood gets together city comes in and we talk we have specifics what do we want to do there's no reason why we couldn't do this at least quarterly if not more so you know again my point is you know I I think we all feel like we're talking talking talking and we're not seeing anything happen and we're not asking for anything very difficult but if we could just have one thing that we say okay that's a good start and then go on from there and I think some action would make us all feel much better thank you so much thank you very much and that concludes public comment thank you we will now go to item six future agenda items this time is reserved for discussion of whether to place matters on future agenda for further discussion potential items for future agendas include mayors open government task force report presentation in addition of other community engagement work does anyone else get to weigh in on future agenda items or is it just what's posted that was a question yes you can you the council members can certainly weigh in and also members of the public so you will want to invite members of public to speak as well perfect vice mayor alvarez do you have anything that you would like to add for future agenda items sir can we go back one step to our the last time that we just spoke about I did have a couple questions that arose from the conversations that were had if that's okay with you go for perfect my first question is for our city attorney uh sue hello today uh in regards to comment that we heard from from the constituents where we can have the back and forth with the with the speakers I have noticed that for example in in lake county with the supervisors they do have conversations with the customers uh with i'm sorry with the constituents i'm sorry i'm here at work so i've been saying to the customer if i was a lawyer i'd be saying client but nonetheless though uh is there anything that that that recruits us from having conversations with with our constituents while on the dice uh yes there is although i'm going to have to go back um my recollection is that there are restrictions within the brown act itself there are made there may also be restrictions within the city policy but I will go back and confirm those the you know where those restrictions come from uh and uh and report back to you I appreciate that and while I have you on the line the neighborhood fest we hear that you know we had one and it was done but that was also pre-covid what liabilities the city of san rosa have if if somewhere to become ill soon or during or or somewhere near the neighborhood fest with the city of san rosa have any type of liability in such a situation no the city would not have have liability they are you know we would setting aside potential legal liability and we obviously want to make them those events as safe as possible even in this time of covid I understand they are outdoor uh events um masking this you know may be recommended but it's not required um but in terms of there being actual legal liability on the part of the city no there would not be oh sorry I also just want to clarify it wasn't just one neighbor fest event it was eight neighbor fest events held in 2019 we reached over uh 1200 people through that series of events love to hear that love to hear that the participation and again sometimes we only see monday without realizing that we still have six of their days of the week just because we don't know what day we're living right but I do appreciate the the the expansion on that and and actually speaking of community and thank you for for now since you're on the line cab we hear we hear statements of of uh their their vision of becoming more engaged with the community what have we been hearing from cab what do they envision or what do they feel they're missing in order to to be that entity to be that group that's that has teeth in the in the apple so to speak you go go daniel you go okay uh so since um as as one of the cab members mentioned we're we're happy sad that daniel is no longer uh with caps as she's been promoted um so one of the so I've taken a more active role with cab and I think um particularly as we are still inching out of like different covid situations I think um the comfort level for cab is is in terms of like doing events like neighbor fest is is kind of varied um so I think that and and just also trying to get back into an in-person cab meeting setting we are trying that this wednesday we are going to be doing a hybrid uh cab meeting where we're going to try to get um a few of the cab members to to join us in person and we'll of course still be streaming um but I think it's really been a matter of like folks you know capacity you know um to to do this volunteer work do their their regular lives and and slowly coming back into doing things with families and sports and all of that so I think we've we've kind of seen folks kind of just starting to dip their feet back into the engagement world yeah and I also would I think it'd be a disservice if we didn't mention that um there has been robust conversation from the cab around neighborhood engagement and what that looks like and really what we heard it I can't remember it was a couple months ago was that you know neighborhood engagement is going to look different depending on what neighborhood you're in and also what your particular neighborhood slash community groups that you belong to uh what their priorities are right so a lot of folks mentioned uh there's quite a few of our community members they might not be engaging with with the city and it's not because they don't know how it's because they have so many other things that are priority for them that they can't participate it's just not a priority for them they're trying to get food on the table they're trying to make the rent so on and so forth another comment from some of our members was that engaging in their neighborhood is not necessarily a safe option for them we had a community or a a cab member tell us a story about how when she moved into her house her neighbor hung up a confederate flag which the day after they moved in and she and her family as black folks didn't feel safe and still don't to this day feel safe engaging that neighbor so i think that that that information i really encourage our council members to connect with cab members around that particular discussion and hear what our different cab members had to say about that i do appreciate the heads up with that and that kind of leads us to the constructive criticism which uh which chair rogers alluded to how we do want to see that those uh concerns from the community but often a constructive in this constructive form we hear the term being we want to you know the first step to create trust you know what would that first step look like for you and and how do you imagine getting there and that brings me to the point of of the statement of taking the first step and i'm hoping folks are seeing that well actually today chair rogers did something splendid and hopefully to the to the to the approval of our members which to just regard the time clock i you know i pretty i'm pretty sure every one of our speakers wouldn't be on the three-minute state and there was no pushback those are hopefully the small steps that people hopefully are paying attention to aren't seeing that the government that they have before them is one that wants to be more open wants to be more exclusive so i definitely applaud your efforts kind of chair rogers and and something that happened up the r.u.p over the weekend and one of our members mentioned it was a fair based strategy and and kudos to our team who created more of a fair opposed to a group of city officials who spoke there for the entire time in fact there there was free food you know so those are things that i'm hoping the community are paying attention that are things that are happening so when i hear that we you know take the first step to build trust i assure you things are being done to build that trust and this is us exiting the pandemic so again i applaud the efforts of the the staff of the city of san juan for paying attention now we are trying to make those differences and make those changes in the way we strategize and approach our community thank you for the time thank you um it looks like mr do it has his hand family um please of course we give him speaking privilege oh so uh declare i i want to state that i think dwayne's hand did raise um for future agenda items but with us reopening um five about that so um we i have no comments um with 5.1 um vice mayor alvarez was able to um share his comments and the public um was also given the opportunity to share their comments so we will now go to um six which is future agenda items we will resume um and now uh call on mr do it dwayne i have given you permission to speak do you see the timer on your screen please unmute hello can you hear me yes thank you and thank you to you folks also for the comments you've just made and what you're talking about and for future agenda item i think it would be good this is just from the outside looking in for you folks to put the idea of smaller community engagement activities being arranged by your subcommittee reaching out within different areas of the city with a little bit of refreshments and advertising them as come talk to us meaning you're there to listen to what community members bring forward and i've only seen this done once in the end city in all these years and it was just done recently by two members of the planning and economic development department and it worked really well and those two employees just listened i was not a participant i was just in the same building at the time and people afterwards told me that's a really good thing for community engagement it's not expensive you don't have to feed people you could actually say hey a potluck perhaps people bring their own and have it be structured in such a way that people are allowed to speak and it's not about the time limit if you've ever been to any of these governmental agencies they become time tyrants they become slaves of the clock and oh you hit your three minutes is in some cases at the county it might be two minutes 90 seconds and when it used to be five minutes you look at this and think this isn't about engaging us it's about just patronizing us in a way that's not you folks i know that you on this committee tonight are reaching out and trying to make new approaches and so this is something i believe should be on the future agenda and then last but not least recently a U.S. federal government employee at a major conference gave a short speech and pointed out that those communities that have borne the burdens of being disadvantaged and deliberately left aside if you will have a right to expect that this new money coming from arpa should actually help those communities first and that they should bear some of the good things that come forward even as different cities and communities promote sprawl out from their areas and do different development type techniques that's not what it's about arpa is also supposed to be helping those people those long-term residents taxpayers who've been there throughout all of this those who have been disparaged disadvantaged over burdened underserved all those things there's one census district in Santa Rosa that's got that that's rosalind and it's actually been picked by the state as a community with the most environmental hazards and burdens definitely set some of these meetings up there in rosalind and i bet you'll find people are more than willing to work with you talk with you find ways to revitalize that rosalind commercial corridor of sabastopol road which has been there for close to 100 years and has kept that community anchored for generations and generations well over 60 years i wish you well on your endeavors please put us on your agendas for the future and thank you again thank you next public comment will be from eric frasier eric i have given you permission to speak your timer begins now yeah thank you very much and i definitely connect sincerely with the heartfelt approach that chair rogers and vice mayor alvarez is bringing to this meeting thank you very much um and i'll stay within my three minutes because i also want to recognize the service that you do to our community and uh in your telling are not fully compensated for that and so i do appreciate the time that you're willing to spend on this issue i there's no way though i can back away from what i observe from the str lens and how defective this is and the promise has been for robust engagement with our community over the str issue starting the beginning of this year and none of that happened i know there's been a few discussions on the side after the last weeks um uh or two weeks ago the city council meeting which you know again did everything's doing more damage than actual annealment in our community and the real reason is that there's not facts being used again decisions were made without facts being available and you guys were comfortable with that decision and so when you asked how do you rebuild trust it would be the same thing a child asked their parents is why did you hit me on what basis or why did you punish me on what basis and you have to understand the lack of facts and some of these and all essential discussions leads to this brutality that happens and uh we can't allow that to happen so i while i understand certainly the need to equity and the difference between different districts i have to say though that the need for broad base engagement over important issues is apparent it doesn't really matter where you live the other thing too is that it's so important to realize again the audience knows more than you guys knows more than your staff certainly knows more than you when it comes to solutions in management or economic science or even planning and development and so you know they're i don't know what the solution is because you have like this uh real dilemma if you will uh that the the way you you can't go forward because the the way that you've created your organization to be dictatorial and hierarchical and it's not built on the premise of actual authentic engagement even though of course that breaks out and we we appreciate everybody's individual efforts and staff but overall the organization does not serve the people and we certainly have immediate examples of where it's again conflagrated situations where it wasn't necessary and and that's that's just really sad so i'm just left with the sadness and again i i i feel that the presentation was inadequate i really don't have a lot of accolades to swing about but hopefully there's going to be a robust process going forward so we can have authentic engagement we don't give up we're optimistic and thank you very much for your time thank you very much and there are no other hands raised a public comment all right so um i just had a few comments i am so sorry uh share uh rogers we just have Gregory yes thank you go for it Gregory you can go ahead and unmute your microphone thank you very much um i'm first of all going to apologize for if i sound pessimistic and somewhat depressed about this um but it's been eight years um the problem is in my opinion you don't have as a committee any direction from your colleagues any support from the staff at the level that the open government task force expected um it's hard for me to answer the question about what it is i should suggest to you to put on the next agenda if we don't even know if you're going to meet and we don't even know how much staff you're going to have and we don't really even know whether or not anything that comes out of it's going to have any any agency from the rest of your colleagues um i think you either need to say to the council at the next genuine meeting um eliminate the civic engagement department uh redesign redesign what the cab's all about and and just let's put this to bed because it hasn't produced anything like what we expected it's not generally given the kind of support that would get it there uh and unless it seems to me that you um that the kind of spirit you all have is reflected in the staff you get and in the council support you get for either increased budget if that's the problem but mostly if a vision of partnering with the community isn't truly at the heart of this then forget about it you know i mean i'm not going to push uphill and we've been pushing uphill for eight years any more of this pushing uphill is going to turn even us off okay so i think it has to the basic question has to be is is this city really dedicated to civic engagement i thought it beautiful that daniel pointed out that after all is said and done the cab and the mission and all the work still doesn't have civic engagement as in their policy it's not about civic engagement from most of the cab members in my opinion they are hurting personally they are on that council for whatever reason i don't know but it's certainly not engaging the neighborhoods it's certainly not reflecting any of our expectations to the council it's really pathetic and i'm sorry for having to be so angry but this is this is the point at which you're asking us what we think has been done and i can't say much positive about it thank you thank you there are no other hands raised for public comment so thank you everyone for your comments um vice mayor alvarez did you have anything that you would like to see on future agenda no no i do not uh chair rogers i think if anything just um i really love hearing people's passion even if it comes or even at the state it's anger i mean if if if they've been at something for eight years then you know if they suggest something i just hope that you know one of the things that i heard from graded state was when he said um we expected more and he actually gave us something to baseline which was increased budget and i'm hoping that he also elaborates what levels uh were were he suggested what he did explain what he expected i think moving forward if anything we we have on on our agenda is how do we promote construction constructive criticism from our members uh a little direction because you know i will say that that ranked true is some people in our community more a lot of people in our community are much more uh experienced in certain realms of of their profession which interrelates with government and i would love to hear from their ideas with specifics uh teach us um i i think i speak for yourself or we say we're not afraid to learn and i think you and i have really been out in the community looking to run so to my community i say teach us we're we're here and we're more than one sorry my my my uh my conserving energy just kind of work against you and i but thank you no problem um so i just had a a couple of things um i wanted to throw out there and i'm not quite sure if we can do them but um maybe a future meeting um to invite the cab chair and a few of its members so we can see um firsthand from their perspective um how the cab is going and what they feel like is going right and what they feel like is not going so right and to collaboratively come up with some things maybe that we can present to counsel if that is something that we need to do to to re-envision the cab um so that it it does um what it was designed to do um and the second thing is um when we have tasks that we're looking at um implementing and goals that we're looking at going after to have uh work groups um during this meeting time at city hall um where it would be um online of course and people could engage um but where we're actually working through um what our goals are not just giving uh presentations because that's one of the things that i was hearing um that the public does not uh feel um is as effective um and prolongs the process of us actually getting anywhere so that is something that i will be following up with uh attorney galger and also um the city manager to see how we can um kind of get that um to a communication going and not just talking at the public um so i think that about wraps it up and uh number seven is adjournment so i would like to thank everyone for their participation and for being here um and until next time thank you very much meeting is adjourned