 Rwy'n ddweud am yr ysgol, ac mae gennym ei wneud i amgylcheddau anodau a phobl yn gyfweld, sy'n ddweud am y cenderfyn ar gyfer y Cymru, a phobl, y gwybod yn dweud, ac mae'n hynny'n iawn. Mae'n ddweud mewn fath o amdano, ac mae'n meddwl y bydd wedi'i gwybod, ac mae'n meddwl yn fath o'r fath o'r masyffydd. Mae'n meddwl yn gweithio'r gwaith, mae'n gweithio'r gwaith fath o'r fath a'r gwybod i'r of risk and high ambition. It adds to the complicated and unfinished enigmatic life of Tinibull. Now we've all heard of these allegations at some point and today we want to discuss what the ideal character of a presidential candidate is with the continuing drug lord saga as an anchor story. So please let's hear what you have to say remember you can join the conversation, send us an sms or whatsapp on 0818 038 4663, tweet at us at waste your african one with the hashtag waste show. So ladies before we bring in our guest have you seen the video did you read the article i mean i was going to skip quick thoughts one one from each of you. Who wants to go first? It's super scary the journalism that's been done and research has been found out to think that this person is actually still walking free and you know the confidence that people have in him. I'm wondering how far this video has gone and if people are open to believing it because you know it's easy to just see it and just think oh okay it's one of those things and just sweep you under the carpet but this is huge this is big this is somebody who's going about to be our leader our president. I mean i don't think he should be running for that. He's certainly running for the office. So i like that you already may declare that this is history resurfacing because i read the article when it was written right that was i think weeks ago um if not months and i think it was in june when i saw this comeback again i thought oh something new has happened and then i went to watch the video and it felt like i was just reading the transcripts again right so um i like that we're having a conversation but at the same time i feel like it's also it's an important convenient distraction at this time because elections is what how many weeks away from here and we've not really had the important conversations not that it's i don't know i don't even know if i'm hopeful or hopeful so i would say not that it's going to make a difference right those important conversations but i really want us to get to the point where we're having this conversation but then i have questions for David. Yeah we certainly do have questions so yeah so without further ado David Odenny is a writer investigative journalist and broadcaster whose work has appeared on CNN The Africa Report Al Jazeera and The Washington Post. His work as a satirist on the other news Nigeria's answer to the daily show has featured in the New Yorker magazine and in the Netflix documentary Larry Charles Dangerous World of Comedy in 2018 he was nominated by the U.S. State Department for the 2019 Edward Morrow Programme for Journalists under the International Visitors Leadership Programme so thank you for joining us because i know he's had a couple more awards this year last year so David we need to update you it's update send us your your most recent profile yeah um thank you thank you so much for joining us i hope you can hear us awesome so i've seen a lot of i've seen this video several times i've read the article i have watched so many different um interviews that you have given so far so i guess even for yourself i'm wondering if you're already burnt out talking about this topic but for the people who may not have seen it may not have read it um and for the purpose of setting the scene of the conversation can you give us a quick summary of this work that you've done this interesting piece that you've put together so this is a um deep dive into the background of one of the three presidential front runners because um i thought it was an important story to tell being that this is someone who is running on the ticket of the incumbent party so this is someone that has a real actual chance of winning that office um based on the experiences we've had since 2015 when the accepted knowledge now is that people didn't know what we're voting for and didn't know what we're going to get i thought now that people should have that excuse taken away from there people should know what it is that potentially they want to vote for and since um the quote unquote mainstream media isn't going to do its job and tell this which i consider to be the most important story then i will take it upon myself to do it so um it's funny how you said this is not a new story um to you it's not a new story you might have been plugged into the news cycle for for years for decades even as a journalist but i show you that to the vast majority of people who read the article which was published in july or watched the documentary which was released on sunday it was a new story to them and that's that's the um that's the asymmetry of information in nigeria so um it's it's a bit presumptuous to assume that everybody knows this already everybody has heard this before so this is just something coming up as a quote unquote distraction as you put it i completely beg to disagree now um that long story short because as you said at this point anyone who who who doesn't who hasn't who isn't familiar with the particulars of this story really just needs to google the documents just read it for themselves do you don't even you don't even need to read the story that i published or read or watch a documentary just google the documents and read them but just um for the purpose of brevity a cliff notes version so the central character here is vola metu numbu who is currently running for president back in the 80s and the early 90s um he was identified as a bad man a money laundre working on behalf of a a drug ring in chicago which was selling um southeast asian by teroen to the american market specifically to indiana which was a a heroin addiction hotspot and still is by the way um now in 1992 when the um the fbi investigation into the heroin kingpin of gary indiana identified a fellow known as leandre edwards as the spearhead of the operation the investigation brought in a nigerian drug dealer called um a builder at billy who was the one supplying um heroin to leandre edwards so leandre edwards was the um heroin retailer who who ruled the streets while a builder at billy was the wholesaler who was running the supply chain from nigeria which he did in in conjunction with his uncle uh mwyza digbwyga cwnde and as part of that investigation it was determined that the proceeds the funds that were the proceeds of these um illegal transactions this illegal business were were being um laundered through the accounts of the person known as vola metu numbu now um these accounts uh 10 of them in total uh some of them were opened uh using the address which was the same address of the house used by labiodag billy as his heroin pick up and drop off point so essentially a drug trap house was the address used by vola metu numbu to um to open some of his accounts his wife olu remitunum bu also opened joint accounts with uh mwyza cwnde's wife uh Audrey and um there was there were several um financial interactions between them based on tinnable's own admission which um which was contained in a deposition which was taken down by irs investigating agent kevin mos in 1992 so basically tinnable um admitted of his own volition when he was contacted by us authorities investigating the case that he knew abiodag billy and um mwyza cwnde very well he had financial interactions with them he paid their money into his accounts regularly huge sums of money by the running into the hundreds of thousands of dollars and bear in mind that through all of this he was an accountant whose stated income according to the deposition was $2,400 a month so that's that comes to $28,800 a year before tax so someone making $28,800 a year who according to his own statement had no other source of income was then found with over $1.4 million in the bank and uh if you read the court the the deposition taken down by the fbi and the irs investigating agents it was stated very clearly that there is probable cause to believe that these are the proceeds of illegal narcotics trafficking and as such an order was issued by the courts to freeze the accounts now eventually some sort of settlement was reached what exactly the settlement was is not in the public domain till now um some people have been working on getting it out but what i suspect it was was some sort of plea deal um to basically extract information from him in exchange for um letting him off uh basically with a forfeiture which is what happened so $460,000 of the drug money was forfeited to the US government and then uh the balance of roughly $1 million was returned to the people he claimed own the accounts so that was one of them kafaru Tinnabu and his surrogate mother happy about Mogadji but no money was actually returned to him directly so i guess that's just like a cliff notes version of the story it's a much longer story than that to be honest the case documents are around 51 pages which is why i would suggest that anyone who hasn't already read them should really download them and read them because they they go into far more detail than i do and it's always better to see things from the horse's mouth instead of sort of hearing a second hand version so thank you for sharing that i mean that's an awesome summary um and i hear you when you say that you know everyone should go and read it but then i guess the more people that read it it also is subject to more people's interpretation because we're also not all legal professionals no matter how straightforward um we say the English is um i'd like to follow on the part of the forfeiture that you talked about um now $460,000 is about a third of the money um or just over a third of the money that he was claimed to have now would you say that these funds because if they're criminal proceeds we would expect that the government would hold on to 100% of the money because they're not going to return um criminal funds uh process from criminal activities to you so what are your thoughts around that are you saying that those funds technically were not fully seized because he could prove that they weren't his funds which then leads to the fact where perhaps when he's talking about his income that income is truly not his based on his um proving source of income which is the salary that you talk about well then again if you if you read the story which i published in July i included an insert from the US Justice Department where its guidance on the issues of of settlements and forfeatures was clearly stated and the statement said um in cases where justice will be served so as to uh what's the term that was used so as to uh conserve the resources of the United States government and uh and uh and defendants uh settlement agreements are encouraged so it is often the case in fact that where there is criminal activity that is established in a case and there is some sort of settlement that is a greed or a plea deal or something like that it is often the case that the defendants can be let off with something but it's also important to point out that um unlike the narrative that people like Festus Keam will have been going around saying that a million dollars was released to him so that means that it's proof that he was innocent after all why would they give him back his money if it was drug money if you actually read the documents the money that was refunded he claimed did not belong to him he claimed that it belonged to his uncle but adoptive uncle carfaritino and his surrogate mother happy about mortgage so according to the documents those were the people it was returned to because they were they could he could argue there was some sort of um i guess um probable doubt i guess he could argue that the money wasn't his and that's how comes was returned but all the money which was directly traceable to him not a penny of it was returned to him and again this can be verified from reading the documents so i again you know regardless of whether you're a legal expert or not English is English some things are stated in very plain English so i again i would recommend for everyone to simply read these documents they are really not that difficult to get through okay um reading the documents i don't know how many people will but like you said it's important for people to really go back and read because um getting the information from the writers is quite important but i want to take it from the title of um the video that was put out which is um drug lord to the presidency right and after reading the article i'm thinking i mean from your own interpretation as well um would you call this man in question which is bola medinibol a drug lord or an accountant who is extremely good at what he does but decided to use his skills for the wrong people which which is he right now is he a drug lord or in money laundra which one so if a soldier who is like a highly trained sniper in the military decides to start using his skills on behalf of the mafia do you call him a murderer or do you call him a highly trained officer of the law who has decided to deploy his skills his service to a criminal organization it takes a half a dozen so that's a very interesting way to put it there's another analogy i guess the question for me is whether the the the title itself if he's deserving of the if he's deserving of the title is he really a drug lord but well i mean if you are if you are moving millions of dollars as far back as the 1980s you are moving millions of dollars i think you are you are entitled to to the time drug lord you're not a streets operative who is selling dime bags of weed on the corner you're moving millions of dollars through your account you're buying high value real estate you're running for office so yes i think the proper characterization is you are a drug lord it might not be the drug lord but you are a drug lord okay okay interesting perspective Mary okay um david so seeing as this has been released is there any regulation from the Nigerian government because nobody seems to be saying anything about it you know at the this gets into the right authorities or what can be done from the Nigerian authorities to either call him to order or cancel his participation in the presidency election so um the the fact of his indictment in the US on its own um will not be enough to to get him off the the roster for next year's elections because um as they say the law is an ass on the Nigerian law um you could have basically be an axe mudrae but as long as they happen in another country um technically you are fine so two things as long as you don't have something which can be academically classified as a criminal conviction in this case it's an indictment but because he wasn't convicted he didn't end up with a jail sentence or something so technically it doesn't count as a conviction so he's guilty of it of of narcotics trafficking but because there's no conviction there's an argument that well as far as the law is concerned he didn't do it even though morally speaking he obviously did it but as far as Nigerian law is concerned there was no conviction and then even if there was it didn't take place under Nigerian jurisdiction so um it's qualified to run basically and by the way there are several people across leadership positions in Nigeria who have similar issues the the the current governor of the states is the next convict the um the current deputies any president has had legal trouble too similar legal trouble the um the current speaker of the house of representatives Fleming Bahjabia Mila um when he was a lawyer in the states he got disbarred for stealing his client's money and he was very lucky not to go to jail for that um the former delta state governor James Iborri did a prison term for theft in the UK before he ran for governor so there are all sorts of examples of people who have been who have committed criminal um offences around the world but because they didn't take place in Nigeria they're free to run for election in Nigeria now having said that um what I will also mention is that as a direct result of that story which I published in July a quite a number of people that take were lawyers independent lawyers were motivated to start making their own independent findings to try to establish whether there is some sort of grounds for this person to be um to be removed from the presidential race and one of those lawyers was was um like I guess smart enough to to figure out that uh this smart thing to do would be to actually do a deeper background check into this person so the background check I did was sort of restricted to just his um his official career history where he claimed to have worked at Deloitte and supposedly saved up 1.8 million dollars from an entry-level job at Deloitte supposedly and then he's entering into the drug trade and then into politics and whatnot but this lawyer decided to focus on something that goes a bit further back from that so the schools that he went to for example his primary school his secondary school his uh his uh the college he went to in the US the university he graduated from this lawyer retained a US law firm to serve attorney's opinioners on all these institutions and the results that came back were very interesting indeed tonight in fact you probably in two three hours time when my story gets published you are going to see some exclusive details about this issue that you have not seen before but let me not give my story away on air but suffice to say that um both the lawyer myself you know because we've collaborated to an extent we believe that there is a significant if if the courts do the job that they're supposed to do if if the courts you know don't do what Nigerian courts sometimes do and decide to be funny if the courts aren't mischievous there's a very good chance that the contents of the responses to those opinioners could get to nimble disqualified from the race because he actually committed perjury on his inec ec9 declaration so things like his date of birth there's a huge discrepancy between what he's he put down on his ec9 and what his school records from chicago state university show there's a three-year difference completely unexplained things like um the school records he put down on his inec ec9 form he didn't put any records that he left those faces black and for the years instead of 1970 whatever he wrote 0000 primary and secondary school being one of them on his on his records from chicago state university supposedly it says that he went to government college legos you know there's that and let us take a quick break and you've given us so much and i think we have enough questions just based on what you've said to take us through the rest of the show but please stay with us we'll be right back thank you for staying with us if you've just tuned in we are discussing the character of a presidential candidate the juglog jug lord saga with david hundain so we'll still love to hear what you have to say remember you can join the conversation send us an sms or whatsapp to 0818 0384663 or tweet at us at we show africa one with the hashtag we show so um david before we went on the break right um you just gave a run down as to the factors that today can prove that this candidate is not of the right character and i believe when you were speaking to perjury you were speaking to um section 137 of the constitution right that's one of the things that's listed um as a characteristic that can disqualify a candidate for the office of the presidency now i'd like to touch on some of the things that you mentioned given the precedents in the many politicians that you also spoke about who have criminal pasts right um the date of birth which you mentioned and i believe i think somewhere in your video you mentioned that even he might not know his date of birth and we talked about some of the peculiarities um of being born in Nigeria and maybe not necessarily knowing your date of birth right so all of these factors don't seem so unusual or without precedent in our space so what is the driving force behind you focusing and shining the spotlight on this candidate because uh in the game of politics i think if you shake every politician loose even outside of Nigeria right you're bound to find some skeletons so why the spotlight on bola mentinibu? Well how many politicians who run for president of Nigeria submit a forge to university certificates to INEC for example to the best of my knowledge that hasn't happened before to the best of my knowledge the highest ranking public official that has attempted to do something like that in that certainly in the fourth republic was um Sally Subahari who um i think this was 99 or 2000 was disgraced out of office and he wasn't even the president or vice president i think he was i think the speaker of the house of reps or so and he was thoroughly disgraced out of office at that level there are some basic things there are some basic standards of behavior that should be non-negotiable so regardless of who the president is right i have a well-known preference for who i'd like to win next year but even if that candidate doesn't win i would expect and i have a right to expect that whichever candidate ends up becoming president of the federal republic of Nigeria is a candidate that didn't submit a forged certificate on his INEC in ec9 declaration i i don't think you understand just how incredible that is that somebody is running for president of the country not for a local government chairmanship not for you know some state house of assembly position somewhere the president and commander in chief of the federal republic of Nigeria and he's submitting a forged university certificate on his INEC ec9 declaration form that is unacceptable that is absolutely unacceptable okay so i i i honestly have my fingers crossed for the piece you said will be dropping in about two three hours um good thing is i have my specification on your platform already so i'm looking forward to that and i'd like to see how that plays out but i want to take you back um to what you said in terms of how our constitution works or the law works here whereby if you're not necessarily convicted in Nigeria it probably doesn't count until it happens here um looking at the controversies around this particular man in question the candidates um if we stay away from this drug conversation it beats and money laundering and then focus more on maybe what has happened when he was governor of legal states and people that has come in and some of the conversations we've had in some setting quarters around um he allegedly having some cuts from the local government some accountancy issue i think you even touched on that in a case that was um i think the the the court was burnt down or something issues like that if we have more focus on those issues that can be glaring and probably proven and closer to home to Nigerians do you think that will make more impact and because i've also heard some people say you know what this was in the 90s can we just move on what is he doing now but if we look at the atrocities that we can look at clearly and say yes we saw this we smelt it do you think it will have much more impact than that conversation well the conversation that i was having just now for example which is about the fact that this person submitted fordries on his annex decoration these fordries were submitted in june barely five months ago so i mean i think that is fairly current so i mean not to minimize any of the things that you mentioned but if we if we're having conversations about financial impropriety and corruption those are not new things to Nigerians those are really not new things to Nigerians like it those are serious issues but realistically those are not a shocker to Nigerians so if you tell Nigerians that all that i meant to you know boo is a corrupt politician he stole money from legal state blah blah blah that's like saying that the sun is hot who cares to be honest this i think is the issue that needs to be addressed that there is a baseline of behaviour and of character that is expected of anyone who is going to be president of Nigeria a baseline that even your the likes of wahari have not violated to the best of my knowledge i mean as far as i know general bohari was never involved in drug trafficking you know like he might have there are a lot of things that i would obviously back to disagree with him on his record on human rights for example is the reason i'm out of the country there are so many things to disagree with him about but at the very least as bad as it is to be a Nigerian nobody looks at you yet and says that you come from a narco state by the time you are holding a green passport in 2023 or 2024 and you have a president whose name appears on the same legal documents with heroin traffickers like i'm not sure how familiar you are with heroin heroin is worse than crack it's pretty much a worse drug there is and you have the president of your country being credibly linked to global heroin trafficking i mean i can't it's difficult to to overstate just how how much of a problem that will be even outside Nigeria for anyone holding a Nigerian passport or you're having a Nigerian identity if things are bad now i don't want to imagine what it's going to be like then when the world will be able to look at us through the eyes that even Colombia during days of public escobar wasn't looked at and that's what will happen so i think this absolutely is an issue that needs to be focused on and that's why i'm not letting it go i think it's a fair expectation to have whether it's happened 30 years ago and i mean this happened in the 80s i was born in 1990 but it doesn't matter whether it happened in the 60s because the person that did it wants to be my president he doesn't want to be the president of 1993 he wants to be the president of 2023 so it's my business it's everybody's business and i'm not going to let it go okay so when we talk about the person and the character and i hear you when you say you're not going to let it go but i'd like to go back in time a little bit and touch on something that you also mentioned in your video which was a former presidential candidate will i say of their no-delection with similar so this is mk abuel right with similar would i say drug trafficking because it sounds like that's the baseline that we're setting now we're saying the key problem here is that it's drug trafficking it's not really that it's crime that's the problem um and this is someone who we know that is a hero uh so how do we marry this together that if as a people at that time we were excited that this person was coming in to bring um democracy and all of that um but who had this same sort of shadow around him um how do we juxtapose that we where we find ourselves today well um mk abela was a hero because at the time um Nigerians didn't have access to information um at the time there was no private radio station private tv station Nigerians had nta voice of Nigeria radio Nigeria and that's it the the the the only other alternative to that that they had in terms of information was the printed press which was you know very often you would have you know men from the government bursting through newsrooms with guns pointing guns at journalists and editors Nigeria didn't have a free press so Nigerians didn't have information so maybe that's why mk abela was considered a hero because mk abela categorically was not a hero or anything close to it right if you if anyone who is actually conversant with actual history and not the sort of romanticized uh curated version of it that has emerged ever since june 12 1993 would know that for example this was someone who was constantly involved in financing coups to that string of coups that Nigeria had through the 70s and 80s mk abela was involved in almost every single one of them right this was a guy that was a coup financier this this was literally someone who profited from the things that destroyed Nigeria first of all he was a profiter right and then in addition to being a to being involved in every every kind of business under the sun both legal and illegal including things like gun running which by the way this is not just me saying it even senior military officers have confirmed this previously which is one of the reasons why he wasn't liked in senior military circles this was also someone who if you recall the um the so-called ITT project which if it had been properly executed at the time maybe 20 years before Nigerians got onto the information super highway Nigerians would have actually been there mk abela is probably the singular reason why most Nigerians statistically didn't get to have some sort of reliable high-speed internet connection until within the last decade it was statistically from 2010 on that the majority of Nigerians came online the rest of the world had been online for like 20 years before that and mk abela is probably the sole reason why that took place so why on earth this guy is considered a hero it's simply because people lacked information at the time information didn't move at the speed it does now our parents didn't know anything to be honest all they knew was what they were fed by the nts and the voice of nigeria and radio nigeria the propaganda mouthpieces of the government there was no plus tv africa then people couldn't have these kinds of conversations then they assume things like this simply didn't exist so what you knew was what those in power wanted you to know that's how come mk abela is considered to be a hero he categorically was not so i think from what you're saying now we have we knew we have a history problem well now we have a much more bigger history problem because this is not the first time someone who we have considered as hero based on the little history that we follow have been discredited in communications and conversations because we now have more information like you're saying and you know how it is when they say for you to really move forward it's also important to look backward know where you're coming from and then know where you're going from there i mean i was going to ask about journalism but your question now um brings it to mind to ask how do we even begin to correct this history with the number of information new informations that are coming out because at first we're wondering why scrap it let's know the story tell us how it is and our parents had tails we're saying bring bring it forward but these tails clearly are not grounded in facts so how do we begin to cleanse history for us as nigerians so that we can begin to have an identity really i think the first thing is that um the the the the nigerian government first of all needs to do away with the idea that um history is something that that is an existential threat to it the nigerian government's reflexive reaction to information information in general not just history but the reflexive reaction of the nigerian government to information is fear reflexively anything that um that can make information move faster or faster than it did before the first response is fear if you recall when social media first became a thing maybe a decade and a half ago in nigeria the very first response from government i mean this was as far back as the days of of yardua gulag jonathan even going back into your passenger years the very first response we were hearing noises about basically it was fear right if the government is not in control of something in nigeria it's automatically afraid of it and you know under the buwari regime we've seen that taking to ridiculous extents like you know them you know banning or trying to ban twitter and them talking about you know regulating the internet and creating a you know china china style golden shield internet censorship system which obviously they cannot afford but you know that's how the nigerian government reflexively responds to all kinds of information that it is not in control of so i think the first thing is that the nigerian government as an institution which includes the armed forces the civil service the legislative the executive nigerian government needs to get over itself right the nigerian government is terribly afraid of information i remember this was i think 2018 or 2019 um a good friend of mine nelly carlu she used to be a radio journalist and she was she was hosting a show and i think it was um it was biafra remembrance day and she was having a conversation with chetan one day on the radio about the asaba massacre which is a significant historical event in nigeria's history right the asaba massacre was basically you know a massacre of civilians that took place under the watch of um general mutala mohammed is showing up toward the end of the nigerian civil war when he basically rounded up all the men in asaba civilians and you know brutally executed them for basically no reason simply because they they belong to a certain tribe right now i understand that these are not easy conversations to have these are not nice stories to tell especially in a place where we mythologized some of these men so mutala mohammed for example who you know his corpse should have been tried for war crimes and shot into space but somehow he ended up on a 29 iron note and his name is on nigeria's most uh is on uh the international airport in in legos so i understand that for in an environment where we we mythologize bad people um this can be uncomfortable but the reaction of the nbc to that conversation the nigeria broadcasting commission who they called through to nigeria info and told them to take that program off air immediately and then they go find and then he lost her job and that was the last time anybody ever mentioned biafra remembrance they on the radio anymore now tell me what exactly was meant the dimension of biafra remembrance they're going to do which crisis was it going to spark which problem was it going to call it's a historical event it happened 99% of the people who who witnessed it or were alive when it happened aren't even around anymore so we're fast running out of time um it's a giant government is terrified of information yeah so we're fast running out of time and we're likely to do two quick things for us um this is an expose on one of the candidates but we have lots of other candidates so can we look forward to um some more exposies on some other presidential candidates that's one question and secondly we would like you to give us some one snippet from what we can expect from you in two or three hours so break something for us here always okay so um the i guess to answer the first question what i would say is um if if other candidates have um issues like this if other candidates have been involved in international um narcotics trafficking and if other candidates have submitted false documents and told lies on their i-nec e-c9 declaration then yes absolutely there will be such exposies if other candidates don't have these kinds of issues and i choose to focus on the only candidate that has those issues then that's not my fault that's that candidate's faults that candidate shouldn't have those issues all right can we get a snippet from you what's coming okay so let me i'm going to do something i don't usually do and i'm going to share my screen right so give you a sort of uh sense of what i'm working on right now or shall we shall we just get a headline because we're running out of time we really want to hear it okay so the headline of the story is has bola meant enable committed perjury the evidence says yes ah well you heard it here first on ways we're looking forward to that one thank you so much david um else you have a comment let's take that quickly for you since um good evening ways um i think he's that's enable now i think he's too desperate and if what he's been accused of is true then he's not qualified um or ripe to contest for the position of a president can you just imagine your guest made mention of him forging and fficking his age is that the kind of person that we can be proud of to be a president of our country the answer is no if this man is not honest and sincere then he should drop his presidential ambition and respect himself um thank you so much daniel thank you very very much and thank you so much to our guest david always a pleasure to have you on the show and we look forward to your exclusive dropping in a few hours so before you go do ensure that you follow us on instagram at wayshow africa you can draw you can interact with us further drop a comment and most importantly follow all our social media engagements i remember to like share comment invite your friends and family to watch us and follow us so if you missed today's quote here it is again the people have a right an indisputable unalienable indifesible divine right to that most dreaded and in um envid kind of knowledge i mean um of the character and conduct of their rulers so we'll see you tomorrow at 8 p.m. as we bring another great conversation to your screen bye bye