 A federal high court sitting in Oqaq, the Anambra state capital, has affirmed Tukuma Saludo, former governor of the central bank of Nigeria, CBN, as the candidate of the all-progressive grant alliance, ABGA, ahead of the governorship election in this state. Saludo, who belongs to the Victoria-led faction of ABGA, had secured 740 votes. In the list, published on July 16, the independent National Electoral Commission, INAIC, picked Michael Morji over Saludo as the standard bearer for ABGA. INAIC said it based its decisions on a court First, INAIC's commissioner for information and voter education also told the cable that Musa Ubali, a judge of a high court in Jigawa state, had passed judgements in his suit, upholding the suspension of Victor Oye and affirming Jude Okeke as the party's national chairman on June 30, 2021. Okoie also cited another court order in which Bellukau, a judge at the Federal Capital Territory, FCT High Court in Kuba, on June 28, ordered INAIC to monitor the primary election of the Jude Okeke faction and comply with the results. Morji won the primaries in Okeke's faction, but delivering judgements on Monday, Chukwu Dioka, presiding judge, set the other parties in the suit, comprising Jude Okeke, Adoze and Joku, and Chukwu and Morji were meddlesome interlopers. The judge, therefore, affirmed Oye as the national chairman of the party and other INAIC to recognize Saludo as the ABGA Governorship candidate for Anambra. Now, joining us this morning to talk about all this is the former CBN Governor and now ABGA candidates, Mr Chukwu and Saludo. Good morning and thank you for joining us. Good morning and thank you. It's really a great play. Let me say al-Qaad-e-Sala to our Muslim friends and a happy holiday to our Nigerians. Okay. So how would you feel about this court judgements that has now ruled that you are the authentic ABGA candidates for the elections come November? Well, I will always say that the judiciary will always come through in the end. This is Anambra. This is the season of all kinds of court orders and court judgements flying from all over the 36 states of Nigeria. That's part of our judicial system. I don't understand it why an election in Anambra should have court orders and judgements coming from Binning Kudu, which is about a thousand kilometers from Al-Qaad where the action is, but that is the season. And so finally, I believe what happened yesterday at Al-Qaad is part of the very first, I mean, part of the very important steps in the resolution of this, what I might call, confusion that was deliberately created. Let me put it that way. Deliberately created over the past few weeks, so to speak. It is a creation of the courts that was no crisis in Africa. INEC, as you quoted the first two so-called years, was on television just about two weeks or there about a go and stated in fatically that there was no crisis in Africa. There was no dispute about the leadership of Africa. There was nothing. Africa was one united family under Victoria as the national chairman, and which was also in the INEC website and so on. Because equal year emerged through a national convention monitored and certified by INEC, the court judgment at Al-Qaad on 19th of October last year affirmed that convention and affirmed Oyeh as the national chairman. And up until now, there has been no national convention to opt on it, and a federal hike, I mean an appeal court had stated that only a national convention of a party can remove the chairman of the party. No such thing has happened. There is no court that has removed him. But then all of a sudden, how did this all emerge? So you'll work up one thing, people will apply to the same Oyeh national chairman, the only national chairman, the only national executive. Nine of us went to the secretariat, bought our forms for nomination and expression of interest. Nine of us went for the screening, and at the end they screamed out and found four of us wanted to proceed to the next stage of primaries, and disqualified five. Now, the other five, one of them, and the committee said was on feet, so wrong for primaries, let alone being governor. Then created his own chairman, you know, he got out of the place, decided to nominate somebody as his own chairman, and then you travel out, you were a thousand kilometers away to now go and get a court judgment, have family, you are on chairman, and then get another, ordering the INEC to accept nomination done by this same person. I mean, that's the 11th wonder of the world, as it were. And so for me, therefore, in the context of all, when it came, I was a bit surprised at the way that INEC could actually yield today, because there were also other subsisting courts, three courts, one court final judgment by the year's chairman, there were two court orders, federal high court order and state high court ordering INEC to maintain my nomination, which it had actually received on the 2nd of July, and that INEC ignored those three, and then ignored the electoral act, which section 31, subsection 3, mandated INEC to publish my name within seven days of receipt of the nomination. It received and acknowledged my nomination on the 2nd, and it was supposed to have published my name and the particulars on or before the 9th, if my calculation is right from 2nd to the 9th, it was by electoral act mandated that the commission shall within seven days publish these particulars and so on. It fell. So I was a little bit surprised that INEC could go that far, could go this way, and then rather than decided to obey the one they caught in being good or whatever, that woke up one morning and created this chairman, and I'm just wondering if in the country today who woke up one morning and would get a quarter of that from somewhere and saying that one John Colo, Nicholas is now the president of Nigeria. Mr. Toledo, really that really is a crux of what we are was heading regarding this whole, you know, situation in Anambra state. So you mentioned that there were INEC reps, you know, at that, you know, screening and the primaries where you were confirmed winner, but then how do you then take it that INEC went ahead to ignore that to, you know, obey a court order from out of Anambra state? Well, I think only INEC can explain that. In fact, that's the point I was just making. We're saying that in this country, we know how a president is elected. We know how he's warning. We know how he is removed, validly. And then so if someday somebody wakes up in either Echiti or in Anambra or whatever high court says, one John Colo, Michael or Nicholas or whoever, is now president, is acting president of Nigeria, because that he claims to have been former vice president. We know who the vice president is, that he claims to have been former vice president, and he has sat the president and has taken over. We start regarding the person as president of Nigeria and we say we are obeying the court. That's part of the puzzle, which I think and I want to believe that ultimately INEC will come through on this because for INEC, they monitored the conversion that produced over a year. INEC has not monitored any other conversion to produce any other candidate. The electoral act requires it to do so. There is no meeting of party to elected, party candidate, party officer that INEC will not monitor according to the electoral act. He hasn't done that. They monitored the conversion that produced over a year, satisfied it, has been dealing with him and is going on the website, all the officers of the party have been on the website of INEC, up until last Friday. Now so and then you receive my nomination on the second. The second national chairman whom you recognize, you know that the law recognizes, you give him the code to upload the nomination on the second. So on the on the on the third year as national chairman of Africa, on the second he uploads my name, get acknowledgement, the electoral act requires you, mandately, to publish my name within seven days. You fail to do so. Now on the 15th of the month, the commission now meant to say, ah, the cutout that I got, whatever, from Benin Kudu. We have to obey this one. Why this regarding the court judgment earlier that meant, oh yeah, the chairman and that found that and he hasn't, by the way, the jigawa or the Benin Kudu judgment in jigawa never said, I mean, clearly spout out that Judo Keke claimed that he was deputy to one a dozean joko as national chairman and that he had now sat the Judo Keke, dozean joko and taken over from him as acting national chairman. Now for INEC, you go to the law requires that all political parties must keep on the list of their national officers with INEC. There was never any minute that the name of a dozean joko or Judo Keke was with INEC as an officer of the party. So how could you then emerge from the blues and then claim you were once you were the deputy and you have taken over and so on and so forth and INEC. But like I said, I'm confident that INEC in the fullness of time would rise up to the occasion and by the way because also the INEC in its press release following the release of the names last week did indicate that it will continue to obey court orders and judgments. Okay, fair enough, if you decided to ignore the previous three court orders and judgments in respect of Oye and my candidacy and then obey the one of Benin Kudu, now the other one has come and all fingers crossed and we watch because. So Mr. Kudu, if INEC refuses to obey this court order saying it's already standing on the one from Benin Kudu, what will be your next move? Oh well of course, I believe well if they refuse to do so, we'll see how that goes. That's on the one hand. I want to believe that there are men and women of honor and integrity there who live by their own words and by the words of the law, by the laws of Nigeria. But besides, I mean that wouldn't actually matter much whether they decide to obey or not obey, ultimately they will have to obey the laws of the land. I believe, I mean we have also of course appealed that judgment of the Benin Kudu so in Jidawa and I think like I said the share of Nigeria always comes through in the end the appeal court will take that up and probably if it has to get to the Supreme Court I believe that that would also finally we'll get justice and I'm confident that we'll be on the ballot on November 6th an election that I think from the facts on the ground we are primed to win overwhelmingly passively in terms of that and I believe that that is why this whole conspiracy and theory is to stop Saludo from being on the ballot by those who think that it's Saludo on the ballot. Actually it closes the elect options for them. Well you know there's still a couple of months till November and so we'll see how that plays out. But I want to ask about Abga itself with the little issues here that we've mentioned you know the Judo KK emergence, the Umoji's emergence also it seems like there's some cracks in the you know in the party and then people would also say that Abga may not even have such a strong hold anymore in Anambra seeing the way that politics has played and been moving in Nigeria lately. What would be your response to that? I as I said a moment ago when you talk about frankly it's a phantom faction. It's just like it's just a creation of the last two weeks sort of space up until Friday last week. INEC knows it all the Abga members throughout the country know it. They know we have one national chairman who has not been removed by anything. These were the words of Abga of INEC. There is not a crisis in Abga. So and as we speak thousands of people are joining Abga by the day in the run-up to the election this year. By the way as you speak there are about 31 self-funding uh pressure groups support groups that emerged in demand for solutions to run for office. Hundreds of thousands of members uh you know took it into their support groups and they are right there of a wired up to go for the election. And so in Abga there is no crack. There are external forces some external forces which would be expected I mean the opposition that thinks that with a soludo on the ballot and with Abga dominantly controlling no less than about 70 80 percent of the political landscape in Anambra. In the last governorship election we won 21 of the 21 local government. The last election held in Anambra happened to be the House of Assembly election after the 180 percent of the six and even could have been a lot more about 90 or that about but you know let's leave the other ones for someone. Anambra is predominantly when it comes to local elections assembly and governorship. Anambra people have almost this peculiar electoral behavior when it comes to national elections they are indifferent. When it comes to a local election they consider Abga as their own that's their own identity. Abga is our people and our people are trying to vote for Abga again and again and again 100 percent. Now the script is if you can pass this kind of decisions and particularly target if you can keep soludo harass him out of the race you may have also heard that somebody some private person went to court to say he's having criminal proceedings against soludo he didn't declare and a property that he rented for his family many years ago 2006 up until now oh he should have declared it and I don't know when you start declaring rented property as your own asset as it were all days and then trying to get the cops or the police to go to harass him and all of that they are just part of a script from external assets are unthinking now from all that we can say we don't believe I don't think any Abga member seriously believes that what is going on is up after that or that anybody else is seriously claiming to be a candidate up after that. Mr soludo you are of course a former CBN governor you know it may be for a lot of people in Anambra you know they might look at it as you know a breath of fresh air you know a young vibrant candidates you know to take over the seat of governor that might be the thinking but you know you earlier mentioned that Anambra you know sees Abga as their own so is this because of the performance of the Abga candidates that have held you know the positions in that state for a long time would you would you say that they've done very well with regards moving Anambra straightforward and I'm talking with regards infrastructural development healthcare education security and all the concerns that the electorate have would that be the reason they would continuously choose Abga or if there's a candidate that seems to have a better you know outlook with regards where he wants to take Anambra does that shake Abga's stance. Two things yes to your first part which is that Abga has served Anambra well Abga has served Anambra well from the time B2B came it took over from Big Air and you know what happened then Big Air struggled with it quite well my my own assessment despite the harassment but it was BDP then that point of point down and I'm missing him actually kidnapped the sitting governor then BDP and then he struggled and then B2B kept on the other part of that implementing the Abga manifesto that is a comprehensive development of the state B2B and a number of people adjudged him to have done well now came Governor Obiano sticking it to the net level in terms of what infrastructure in all sectors of the society despite dwindling resources when most days cannot pay salaries who just you know launched up the international effort in Anambra and international conference and and so on and so forth make a legacy project that Anambra people are saying no we want the good thing to continue so and Anambra is the only political party that the decision about who becomes their governorship candidate is taken by the people of Anambra in Anambra for Anambra and politics become too local and our people are happy they don't want it to go and that's why you see whenever you go on and all you come back to people say one Abga again now on the other thing about maybe some other person except the person is going to come from the moon to but if it is from people who are already on the terrain well I would have a sense of modesty and humility maybe on the when we all roll out our credentials our past our records of public service and our vision for the state in terms of its consolidation and continuity of the agenda then we'll see whether there is anyone else it is left for the Anambra now people to decide whether there is anybody who comes close to what we put out for them the people will decide but if what we have on ground is anything to go by the election if her today will be overwhelmingly Abga absolutely our target actually is to win the 326 words out of the 326 words the target is not the 21 over 21 it's 326 words out of the 326 words and I can then understand why the forces are aligned you know you want to sponsor a more within Abga to see if you can succeed in destabilizing it but unfortunately that isn't working I mean the Anambra people have seen through this plot they're able to decode it and know that this is this is not coming from anywhere it's isn't it funny that someone that the party screened and found to be on feet for the office is now the one who goes a thousand kilometers and the party estate caught in Jigawa orders that his name should be put on there as a candidate of the same party Mr. Saludo yes you you just talked about Abga's credentials in the past few years and that the people of Anambra stay to stand solidly behind Abga but let's talk about you as a candidate do you think the people will stand solidly behind you and what your chances might be in that elections yeah that's precisely what I said the moment they go actually the movement for me to join was actually the people's demand is a people's movement for over two years now the massive movement in the state something new in Anambra politics where the people the ordinary men are working in the markets are contributing money devoting their own resources their own talents their time and everything organizing mobilizing we have 31 such groups and about 15 of them actually have infrastructure in all the 326 words in Anambra Mr. Saludo why do you why do you think you have that support what do you think you're bringing to the table for the Anambra people that you say make them support you so much I think I will be one candidate that will be running on record of public service the people of Anambra know who Saludo is the people of Anambra recall my time at the public service as chief economic advisor to the president and as the chairman of the drafting committee that drafted the Nigerian needs national economic empowerment and development strategy that was implemented under our passenger trade jail and that so Nigerian that implementation of that so Nigerian have its unprecedented economic boom in history and they saw a governor of central bank and they saw the transformation that came with the banking system banking system to their histories before and after Saludo and they know the difference they see themselves they see how millions of people of thousands of investors can now have access to finance and so on that's all the things that we were able to create that I can go on and on we'll have time we'll have time to go through that so the people of Anambra that this is this is not the time at the time of two miles in the global economy post COVID world transition to a post oil economy when many states are having difficulty paying salaries this is not the time for learning on the job you need someone who is tried and tested and that's why they're clamoring they're asking me to come and run that asking me to come and them sir you have solved the world consultant to formally consultant to 20 international financial and development institutions and all their work there is to win I've solved the nation the grateful nation in appreciation of my example at public service honored me with the third highest national honor and with all their words globally and nationally over 200 of them and now my people say whatever you have done in the world you've done in Nigeria come home and do the same for our people and it is that call that I am answering I am going home in gratitude to God for his powerful blessing to offer my service to the people the people know solution and they know what I have done and this election will be around on record of exemplary public service and we're going to be discussing that in the fullness of time it will be talking in terms of your the audacity of our vision of I mean ambition for the state to put our state consolidate on what has gone and to continue to put our state on demand for the 200 people like a number of over 20 million of our people that's what is at stake scattered all over the world that we were our mission or the Afghan nation is to continue to consolidate to build that prosperous homeland that any of us or anywhere that doesn't feel comfortable where he is can have a livable prosperous homeland to return to all right that's why the people of Anambra think they would need a soludo to continue for wherever they are and I'm offering myself like I said in gratitude to God for his blessings and to serve my people as they have demanded all right miss assoludo um um you've of course spoken extensively with regards to your record and what you plan to do um one of the reasons you know we have these conversations is for people of the southeast and for Anambra state people to be able to hear and um um you know see you know further than just politicking um it's important and I believe it's important for every Anambra Anambarian as they are you know called to understand what the next four years of their lives will be like under the leadership of whoever it is that takes over that seat and that's why I always refer back to where you know you're coming from or where you know will you be I know it's coming from uh the minister of labor um you know criticized him and said that he had done poorly and he had filled an Anambra state stated that there is you know you know very very poor development with regards primary health care in the state and not very much has been done and that is you know um increasingly speaking now not not us so I want you to you know quickly share with us you know how how well Anambra has done with regards health care in the last four years or in the last eight years is there any hospital that you currently you know can willingly drive yourself to and say okay this is where I will you know take you know make do do my medical checkups um currently and then also you can flow from there you can also speak about the IPOB issues and the ESN and how you know that might be dealt with. Votapathy is something that the Southeast has dealt with for a long time also but let's talk about health care. It is a bit interesting when you're having the season of parties it is a friend from a governor that himself I gave him credit for focusing on some a few strategic roles he did well and probably he had these plans as I understand to go into other sectors but couldn't. Now in Anambra let's get down let me start with you talk about health care but let me first of all give you the summary in depth of the welfare of the people which encapsulates all that you talk about which is the incidence of poverty for my friends the summary of the welfare of the people is measured largely I mean there are several indicators how long they live and so on and so forth and how poor they are of course how poor they are also implication for how long they live as in case maybe let me point out the statistics summary it's not mine it's not unbegets it's not anybody's by 2010 the national burial statistics indicated that Anambra level of poverty was 53 percent of incidence of poverty means three percent of the residents were poor last year the same national burial statistics published the statistics to say that in Anambra poverty has dropped between them and last year precipitously to 14.78 that's a summary indicator of the welfare of the people under Governor Obiano since 2014 to date now we've got summary statistics and it says you can write a book about that now let's come down to the center well you've got to also go back to where are we coming from what did you have before relative to where we are today if you think it says oh you don't have prime money well there wasn't even any today you have the teaching hospitals you don't have Anambra's oxygen plants for example but they supply the rest of the country look at the incidence of a COVID pandemic that was ravaging everywhere and Anambra has the all-families place like Lagos look at our numbers and how we've managed its healthcare delivery that actually tackled much of this the infrastructure that is in place at the teaching hospital even the state teaching hospital of the state the state university teaching hospital at Amaco where a lot of the patients on COVID and so on have been treated I guess you get to give this date and the governor quite a bit of credit all right quickly talk IPOB before we go how you know you think that might affect the elections November 6 and what do you think must be done you know from the governorship level the traditional level on as indeed but also you know to handle the call for succession I think that would be I would have rest I mean because this is not a few that only three minutes four minutes 30 minutes to talk about IPOB then that's not that I would not discuss that but it is a subject that needs to be discussed I had back in 2017 about 2016 for the published book very important book from Belfra and Nigeria and all of that and during that book review I did call for a very structured conversation particularly among the Ibo elite about the Belfra and so on and when and Nandekano was when he was when he was arrested and the 10 I think in 2017 also I never knew him never saw him I've never still not met him I never met him there was all this clarity among the Ibo leaders and for me when it concerns any Nigerian and there is issue of you know rule of law and deprivation of fundamental rights I am concerned as a Nigerian and I led a team of Ibo leaders about 12 of us including but also part of talk and others and we visited him at the the prison that was the first and the last time I met him and after visiting we addressed the international press conference and called for his release and consequence of what we also call for structured conversation around this particular issue and there are alternative visions about there's some of us who kept talking about the restructured Nigerian viable Nigeria who believe the future and we are better and stronger together and I am an Africanist who believes in you know criminal states of Africa as it were but that we need to have composition around several of the issues being raised thrown out by these guys the method and what they are doing now professor so I may be speaking that's why I said just one more minute okay brilliant go ahead because we need to wrap up go ahead several people might have issues with the means or even the end of this that's a legitimate one and that needs to be that debate okay there is an Ibo when I was the chairman of the planning and strategic committee we launched the Ibo position on the restructuring of Nigeria at the women's square I read out for the position of Ibo on that location all you really that's where they are on our own sense of how a Nigerian stronger Nigeria will look like which is what we all remember but that in the context of that that needs to be a structural conversation in the run-up to the election I think that conversation will not go away we don't wish it away we have to add some I mean increasingly I was on daily basis now the elite in the south is the Hanez the everybody that's a conversation we must all get involved all right because we can't cross from land without a peaceful homeland absolutely and I think that is a subject that I as a person and together with our other leaders around the southeast and the leaders in Nigeria that we need to have these robust conversations to continue to make our country our nation and more affect society all right I think that's a that's a good place to to uh to land uh professor Chukrumasoludo thank you very much for your time this morning thank you congratulations on the court order and I would love to speak with you again uh just before the elections proper call judgment call judgment we'd love to speak with you before the elections proper all right and happy salad once again thank you all right still will also take a short break when we come back we're moving into a different conversation entirely and that is from Bishop Kuka and his response to the Nigerian government we'll talk about it after the short break stay with us