 Hey, Aloha and welcome to stand the energy man here in think take away I'm Stan Osterman trying a moon launch from the big island and trust me I think NASA has nothing on us run our second computer and and are probably our fourth try on Lincoln things up So my apologies for getting a late start here, but we have a great guest today Who's been traveling a lot lately and we just reconnected with him, but it's a councilman Tim Richards from the big island and He's been pretty active here with renewable energy and renewable energy projects on the big island and I can tell you as The resident half wing on that the big on of Hawaii is probably ahead of the rest of the state and maybe even the nation on renewable energy and Really establishing it here in the state of Hawaii. So councilman Richards. I'm really happy you could join us And I appreciate your patience while we try to put all this together Well, thanks, Stan. I appreciate the invite for sitting in on this. This is a new one for me. I guess it's a streaming podcast or whatever it's called. So anyway, all good Yeah, it's been a tough road for us Paul and I have been down to Kahu already this morning So as you know, that's a that's a long drive from where we're at up near Poova va And we just visited the farm the car coffee farm down there that has a hydroelectric plant They're trying to hook up and so it's really exciting to see that technology because as you know That's another great renewable resource that we have here on the big island in our in our hip pocket for a generator A little bit and the kind of things that the county of Hawaii is doing to move forward in renewable energy a Little bit cut out But I think you're asking about what we're trying to do for renewable energy going forward in our county our big The big island one of the great things about big islands. They have quite the portfolio of potential for renewable energy sources We have wind have photovoltaic. We have hydroelectric and we And Promoting good policy that that potentially can tap into all those is what I'm trying to do Currently I am sitting chair for agriculture water energy environmental management and truly agriculture Blend together because again the environment is all of that and what we're looking for is how we can employ and Embrace some of these renewable sources that we have to go forward one of the most current initiatives that we have Is working on bringing forth The zero emission buses both electric and fuel cell buses and that has been in the work now for about Six months. I am hopeful that will be on On island and up and running in about the next 60 to 90 days Yeah, I think that's realistic. I just talked to mitch Actually the guy that runs the station at know-how and he said that all they have Back from bringing the buses over is to get the the fire system checked by the inspectors And then they're cleared to to start refueling at the station and that's the key to bring the buses over So, I think you're right on that. They're almost here Yeah, I think you're right on that one do stand. I know Liberia visiting you're talking about that hydroelectric down in ca'ou That goes back to when I was sitting on our agriculture advisory commission and they were just Trying to implement and employ that hydroelectric I want to say it was a 400 kilowatt. Am I remembering that correctly? And Again, that is a substantial Generation potential for that resource down there and whether or not it could be used as part of a energy source for the ca'ou district And also a possibility as an energy source for Again, generating hydrogen on that side of the island. There's there's a lot of good things before us We just have to figure out how to put them all together Yeah, you know and another great source the big island that's uh, that's kind of got me Excited on one hand and worried on the other hand You know ever since punna geothermal stop production For the volcano. I think it got everybody's attention That how critical that resource was and how much it was actually dependent on by the electric company Yeah, I don't disagree Go ahead. Oh a lot of that question there try again stan Oh, um So in the future, do you see geothermal as a as a really good strong candidate here on the big island for generating renewable power Absolutely As I understand it was one of our least expensive costs of energy going forward And I know some of the old technology and I think that technology has got to be 20 plus years old of what they were doing The technology is a bit And with that the high temperatures that were needed before we don't need near temperatures that high and so what was of 25 years ago It's a very different duck today the ability to generate energy with far less heat is there and we just have to embrace the new technologies Does does that give the big island more In terms of not having directly over a particularly hot spot to be able to do geothermal in different locations that may not be as culturally sensitive or Populated and and would allow themselves to be more suited to a industrial complex like the geothermal complex But I'm not the the engineer to answer that for the long story short That's how I understand it and we don't have to have as high as temperatures Um the big island by definition were evolving over a volcanic mass And we know that the temperatures underneath us are warm So if we can get and harvest some of that energy At a much lower temperature I think that really opens up the door for a lot of energy generation potential which would translate into lower cost for us I I think that's that'd be great I I know that the University of Hawaii study done back in the 70s actually shows that Maui and Oahu have geothermal potential and when you as you mentioned Now with the new technology not needing as much heat There's even a possibility that Oahu can generate its own geothermal if it's done properly Um, I it would make sense because we're all volcanic origin But we know we are over the hot spot and loyi coming up is the hot spot. So But yeah, if we can use Less heat to generate that energy all the better and better for Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Paul and I were at a at a seminar earlier symposium earlier or later last week And it was an otek symposium and you mentioned loyi for those of you that aren't aware That's the next island coming up in the next 10 or 12 thousand years It's uh off the south coast of the big island and it's still underwater, but it's generating an awful lot of heat It'd be interesting to look at ocean thermal associated with the ground one side and hot water To start generating electricity that might actually be an interesting experiment for the university Okay, stan you got me thinking yeah um That is an interesting question And I think what we've got to do is we have to keep our minds open and exploring all the potential possibilities ahead of us And that is a very interesting. We have to think on that one Okay, well, you've been on on the big island for quite a few years and i'm i'm i've been here a lot But I I don't really know the terrain that well I know that richard ha has a hydroelectric plant and I just saw one in ca'u this morning What's the potential for more hydroelectric off of the old sugar flumes and things that we already have in place that we Maybe aren't utilizing enough I think um the potential ahead is vast a concept I've been working on for Probably at least the last over 14 years, but realistically probably 15 or 18 years is a pump storage hydro initiative out of the koala mountains And the koala mountains have a unique geography that lends itself to a pump storage hydro initiative Are people out viewing that to understand pump storage hydro? What we do is we use water at a high level and run it downhill lower level generating electricity through a hydro generation plant During the off peak season we use another source of renewable energy And in this case it would be wind turbines to pump the water back Still and store that energy potential back up at a higher elevation koala mountain Climate that's very conducive to that we drop from an elevation of about 4,500 feet elevation Down to sea level in about seven miles. So we have a substantial grade We have a rainfall pattern at the top of the mountain Of some areas in excess of 140 inches of rain a year And we have a wind pattern that is exceptional that can generate a lot of power So during the day you run the water downhill generating power And using the wind turbines to generate power and night you use wind turbines to pump the water back uphill when the demand for power is low In addition to that and the same part comes in We can use the water for irrigation to expand our agricultural potential energy out of the system could then be used also for i'm going to use the term value added maybe used for cold storage and maybe using For processing vegetables and or meats Um, I put the whole thing together to start harvesting the synergy between the agricultural side and the energy side and putting it together ultimately what we're trying to do is Find a more self-reliant Production of our food and of our energy So I and one of the big benefits is there is some of the old infrastructure in the mountain still left that we may be able to harvest Yeah, and at our visit to the coffee farm this morning We were talking about agricultural sensor centered use of hydrogen And I reminded the folks that when you make hydrogen You're not far from making ammonia for fertilizers And that could be a big plus as you make hydrogen you could start making your own fertilizer using nitrogen from the air And hydrogen to make your fertilizers And then you have byproducts like pure oxygen that could go into aquaponics And help you accelerate the growth of your fish on fish farms And you know the connections keep going on and on Um, you just be amazed once you start getting into the industrial uses of hydrogen Including helco itself that uses hydrogen for cooling its gas turbines and its power production plant that are that's running now on Fossil fuel there's there's an incredible number of uses for hydrogen that I think once we get into that economy We'll start finding gains all over the place, especially in agriculture for the use of hydrogen And I think stand that's where we need to go we need to be open minded and we need to Look for the synergies that are between all these different Um potential sources of energy and or Products that come out of that and I completely agree with you on that We've got to look for those relationships And we import something like 90 plus percent of our food our island Daily about a million pounds of food just to take care of our island itself. We know the the demand is there People want to eat we know we have the capability of production. We have 4,000 square miles. We have a very large county. We have water resources. We have renewable energy Potential and so what we need to do is we've got to put that together And come up with something that again long term. I think we'll start solving some of our problems Yeah, we're just talking about on the way down down the hill today They don't call it the big island for nothing You got more square foot more bridge and more square miles of farm productive farmland and Timberland and everything You've got the natural resources and and that brings us to a point that you know as an oahu race boy I can tell you that he goes plans to go Renewable by 2045 when their resources is a no-go They're not going to be able to do it They're going to depend on the neighbor islands for importing energy And I look to hydrogen as the way to export big island energy to the other islands, especially oahu to meet our 100% goals because the big island is going to have no trouble meeting a renewable goal by 2045 It's a wahoo that's going to have the problem. And so How do how do you think the big island folks would feel if they were producing the energy and selling it to oahu? and then helping get our state off of the big bill of exporting our money to fossil to purchase fossil fuel You know These are some old numbers stand and I'm going to have to Go back and update these but I think at one point we were sending Spending over five billion dollars in fossil fuel for fossil fuel To generate predominantly most of our energy sources and I agree with you I think big island is well ahead of the rest of the state. We have we have so much here as capability I want to say we're somewhere around 45 percent Renewable potential at this point. So I think the 2045 is very very attainable now generation for the rest of the state We're going to have sides of the argument I got that One of the things that I look at sitting in the council seat is that I want to look at not only what we can generate But the economy that'll generate and thereby the jobs that it will generate and thereby How we're going to support ourselves. And so if we can create an energy future for us as an energy Potential exporter potential economy that'll supply jobs for people supply an economy that'll take care of the big island So for me Well, you know, one of the things that we talked about this morning as we were discussing You know future potential for the big island was the subject of permitting and I can tell you that on the island of oahu and I've lived there for over 50 years That and I used to do construction where I could walk into the building department or walk in with a plan and walk out with a permit And those days are long gone. You know now there there are so many Regulatory and so many agencies involved in permitting that aren't even co-located You know, how are we going to attack that county and state and federal problem? And start streamlining for new businesses and new technology to get their permitting done at a reasonable pace I mean, I don't expect it instantaneously, but in the day of computers, we've gone from You know one day's permitting to one year and it seems to be going the wrong way with fellow technology We have in computers and connections, you know, how do you recommend that we get past the permitting stumblings that we have? well, um First of all, I completely agree with you In the fact that it takes way too long to get our permitting going forward and I think probably part of that is the misunderstanding I we would believe that with all our computer technology that everything is linked But what we're coming to find is unfortunately, that's not the case And things aren't linked and we've moved an agenda forward of safety in the name of public safety that we're trying to Regulate and be sure that everything is as safe as possible Well, that does come with the cost and unfortunately it has to go through so many different regulatory branches to be reviewed that slows down the process Tremendously and then the fact that we don't have these processes actually linked through our potential of Again, like you said the computers and all so I think what I have to do is have to start working on that and I get very frustrated sitting in County council because we are Lacial and trying to get some of this stuff done and we have to pick it up I know there are people on our council working on trying to streamline our permitting process But that's not a near fix that's going to take some time because we're trying to put the the different Departments together so we can streamline this stuff and right now it's just not happening Yeah, I think you're right, but I can tell you right now It's not just a county problem When you look at the state office of historic preservation One thing I run into on the on Oahu doing military projects is they only have one or two guys in that office But they have to review every stinking New construction that that goes on and even some remodeling construction And they're just overwhelmed, but you try and hire the guys that are qualified to do that. They're not available But I mean, how do we how do we solve those without at least amending the criteria or simplifying the criteria so that Maybe a a lesser qualified person can screen and get rid of the ones We really need to look at and not have to go through these big long drawn-out processes in underman shops I can't attend or I can't make a comment on the state and I know shifty is a problem The historical preservation because that is a bottleneck and we run into the same problems here in the county From the county perspective, I do know that planning and building are trying to figure out how if they can detail Part of the review process to a lower level again to streamline And so we can get that coming forward in a faster click because as our Our population grows here. Thus, we have more potential requests for these services We're going to have to address it whether it means more manpower or streamlining the acceptance process Probably both of those actually make this thing work But it is a huge obstruction to moving things forward and we all recognize that Okay, can I make a suggestion from for the county? as a As a former employee in dbed I tried encouraging dbed as the business development people To to help solve this problem both at the local state and federal level But and they their response to me was well, we're not a permitting organization So it's not our culliana and my response is the counties might want to push back and say Yes, it is You're the people who ought to be coordinating the state local and federal agencies on this permitting So should we put together some kind of task force at the state level to help new technologies? I mean our state's future economy revolves around new technology And and like you say diversifying our agriculture and things like that How are we going to get ahead of this permitting debacle if we don't get a task force or something together to focus on the root cause I think having a some sort of working group is Probably in part the answer. I'll say the whole answer but adapting or adapting and adopting a new technology usually politicians and departments a little bit Off because it's going to be new. It's going to be groundbreaking. And so I think part of that Is getting together You put the right people in the room that can answer all the questions. And so we're not Starting fresh fresh fresh when someone's reviewing something that there's actually a lot of answers have already been given So there's a level of comfort to take that forward because unless we have the people that can answer all the questions At the table up front. I think that's where we run into a lot of destruction And I get it. I understand people want to jump and change things real quickly But by the same token, I agree with you our future is in our technology. We have to embrace the technology Our society needs energy. We also want to have a renewable energy source that is very environmentally friendly We're going to be adopting new technologies. We have to and we need the help to adopt those Well, I tell you what councilman we've got about two minutes left And I'd like to leave the last two minutes to you to just kind of give us your your perspective on what you plan to do for the big to help Move new clean energy solutions forward and and help with new technology Well, thanks, and I appreciate it. I do appreciate the conversation My initiatives my agenda hardware Phrase them are quite simple I see the Potential for us as a county and realistically as a state because a lot of things that I work on I want to be sure that we're keeping in mind that they could be replicable And we do them in other places in our state this whole agriculture water energy Um, I give a talk on that agriculture water energy of food nexus The idea there is that we're blending all these initiatives coming forward Like I said, I've been working on this pump storage hydro with irrigation for the last let's say dozen years My intent is to move that forward Happens out of that is again, we create that economy. It's going to demand higher technical skill to operate this stuff Plus we will sort the water out of the Wars for this to again encourage and expand our agriculture We have the demand for food in our state Like I said million pounds a day on this island alone statewide We need over seven million pounds of food a day The market is here if the question is can we produce it economically? I want to march forward And I think we can get it I believe that the desire from the public as well as the political climate is right to push this agenda forward So we can have the agriculture production while we are working our energy and specifically the renewable energies Our economy the gdp of our economy right now about one percent comes out of agriculture not quite that is on par with our national production About one percent of our gdp actually comes out of agriculture Hoy's agriculture is actually doing pretty well, but it needs help and more stewarding and with that will come the overall Sustainable model that we're all striving for so sitting in this council chair. I agreed to To run for office agriculture approach To work on good policy coming forward and that's what I'm going to keep doing Well, thanks, uh councilman rickland. I really appreciate you helping out with our technological challenges on our own show today And thanks to paul pontio and robert back in the studio for helping pull this all together in spite of My analog brain in the digital world So thanks to both robert paul and to Councilman tim richards from the big island for today's show and stan osman signing off until next week tuesday