 Hi everybody. Welcome to Brain Club. All right, let me share my screen. All right, see, see, I think it like there were like a ton more people that I send in like different emails. And so it's about resending all of them. All right, cool. Okay. Here we go. Sometimes after like getting all flustered and overwhelmed, just taking a breath. We'll start over. So I know almost everyone, but for those watching on recording, I'm Mel Hauser. I use she they pronounce I'm executive director at all brains belong. And this is Brain Club, our weekly community educational series slash community conversation on everyday brain life things by way of introduction. All forms of participation are okay here. You can have your I made really I made a lot of new slides and they're not here. Hmm. I feel strongly about fixing that. Well, maybe not the other slides. Okay, so I'll leave it. So you can have your video on or off. It's like lots of you have figured that already. We have no expectation of eye contact or any like one right way of being because there is in fact no one right way of being we in fact discourage masking and passing behaviors to just like conform to any kind of zoom thing. No right way to be a person turns out. So you can walk, you can move, you can stand, you can fidget, you can do what needs doing and all forms of communication are okay. You can unmute and shout it out. And you can type in the chat box, you can mix and match whatever works for you. And because safety is really important to us, in addition to affirming all aspects of identity, really important. Hi, hi, Laura. Hi. Just quick question math put in the chat. Did you start recording? I don't say recording on my side. Oh, that's amazing. Thank you for so I'm working media is recording. I usually record so that in that the thing pops up. I love you recording in progress culture of interdependence. Thank you for supporting my executive functioning. To that end, that's a great time to talk about access needs. I had an access need of someone else reminding me about the things that my cortex is unable to track right now, which is often. And relating to access needs, we really want to create a culture here where you are welcome to share your truth, whatever you feel safe talking about here at Green Club. But just keep in mind if you're talking about something that you experienced as traumatic, it's a good idea to let others know about it first and call it trigger warning or content warning. What's we listeners can listen with informed consent versus do whatever they need to do to feel safe. And that might be turning off their sound, leaving the room for a few minutes. And anyway, we will always type in the chat box with content warning over if that happens. Other access related topics, closed captioning. If you'd like closed captioning and it's not popping up automatically for you and you would like to, you can click either live transcript closed captions or more and choose either show or hide subtitles if in fact it's popping up automatically and you don't want it there. All right. So for a few months now, we have been talking about how unfortunately, despite there being no default brain, there are a lot of defaults in our society, right? Like defaults of like, oh, this is how healthcare is delivered. This is what it means to like be an adult. This is what it means to be a worker. This is what it means to be a student anyway. And that's not true because in fact, we all have different brains that do things differently. And what we don't want is we don't want to be in a situation where we are hammering to try to get that square peg to fit into the round hole. And like what happens you destroy the peg and that is what happens to so many people. So how this connects to access needs are that we all have access needs. Access needs are anything that is required to meaningfully participate in one's environment or community. And as I said, we all have them. This might be physical access needs, emotional communication, you know, all different types of access needs. And so often we get the message that if we have needs, we are in some way needy and explicitly or implicitly sometimes often people get the message that we shouldn't have needs, that it's selfish to have needs. Like that's not a thing. That's a myth. And that is really hard because when we think about full participation in our world and our lives, the social model of disability is about the barriers in the environment between the person and full participation. And it's not about there being something wrong with the individual. It's about those barriers being placed. And so we want to have as few barriers to full participation as possible. And when we think about how this plays out in interpersonal relationships, I'm going to throw in a little excerpt from a brain club we did in January called Everyone Flips Their Leg where there's things that make us stress that are going to differ person to person and context specific. Like if there's something in the physical environment allowed sound, if I'm well hydrated and well rested, I might not be as stressed as if I haven't done those things or have a huge cognitive load or whatever. Like with this business of the Zoom and the link and the whatever and all the switching between things. If a motorcycle drives by my house right now, I'm going to flip my lid. Whereas like I might have been okay a couple hours ago. So when we get triggered when borrowing from a model from Dr. Dan Siegel, Dr. King of Queen Bracen, from the whole brain child, upstairs brain and downstairs brain, when downstairs brain gets triggered, we don't get to pick what triggers us. And sometimes we forget that we have interpersonal access needs. It's not just about sensory processing or like how we learn. It's about access needs in a relationship. What does it mean for downstairs brain to feel safe? And so when we think about since we all have access needs, often those access needs conflict with other people. And I might play this clip. I might just come back to it. Well, maybe depends on if I can just unshare and reshare. Very good. I got to share the sound, but it's not going to work. Oh, we can invite all 12 of your brothers to stay with us. Of course, we have the room. Wait, slow down. No one's brothers are staying here. No one is getting married. Wait, what? May I talk to you, please? Alone? No. Whatever you have to say, you can say to both of us. Fine. You can't marry a man you just met. You can if it's true love. Anna, what do you know about true love? More than you. All you know is how to shut people out. You asked for my blessing, but my answer is no. Now, excuse me. Your Majesty, if I may be sure. No, you may not. And I think you should go. The party is over. Close the gates. Yes, Your Majesty. Elsa, no, no, wait. Give me my glove. Elsa, please, please. I can't live like this anymore. Then leave. You. Enough, Anna. No, why? Why do you shut me out? Why do you shut the world out? What are you so afraid of? I said enough. So here we have a relationship with two people with access needs. One is looking to assert them by taking space. One has foot on the gas with an access need to communicate right here now. Boom. That didn't work out so well. I'm curious. Anybody else ever experienced conflicting access needs in an interpersonal interaction? Some nods. Relationships are hard. Hi, Matthew. Are you raising your hand to say, yes, I have conflicting access needs in interpersonal interactions? Or did you want to say something? Yes, no, no, yes, yes, yes. Double yes, you know. Yes, conflicting access needs, but also trying to interpret those needs in a way where the other party makes sense, can understand you too, as well. It's just it goes both ways. And to understand that together is one way to actually, you know, wear the ideas and thoughts of, you know, addressing those access needs. Thank you. Totally. And especially when we have not, we're not in a culture where it is common for people to actually voice their access needs. Access needs are not implied. Because in fact, people are not mind readers. Yeah. I had to learn, I think that was fairly small, to even say to grown-ups that I have a particularly memory of being in a grocery store in Barrie. And I probably was like five. And I said to a grown-up who'd said something to me. I said, it's always better to ask questions than make comments. Can you say more about that? Sure. They, because when you ask a question, you recognize the person you're speaking to. It's about them and what they may know. And it's not about the speakers. Maybe, you know, more uninformed question or, you know, knowledge. Right. So like seeking to understand as being a primary goal. Yeah. And what's interesting is that like how you explore someone else's access needs, you know, may differ. That might in fact be another type of access need. Like my five-year-old will tell you, I don't answer questions. I have a friend of mine that does not want questions. And some of that is being five. And some of that is that declarative language. You know, I wonder if you want chocolate or vanilla ice cream today. You know, it's still exploring. So it's still, it's still getting at seeking to understand, like you said. But it makes, but it makes it about you and not your kids. You're doing the wondering for them. Yeah. And it's wondering about them. And there are people who like don't wonder about other people. Right. Just like plow through. I'm wondering for anyone else how do conflicting access needs are just like, you know, like, is it easy to talk about your access needs or other people's access needs? Or is that even just like a brand new, brand new concept? My mother would deny that she has any access needs, but I can tell when we're having a conversation that I need to entertain her through. And when we can just actually have a conversation. Yeah, I was recently talking with someone who shared a similar experience with their mother. Oh, that's okay. Laura has in the chat, only when they conform to the, oh, the quote, expected access needs. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to go back to sharing screen, a couple of like thoughts, like prompts for this conversation. Recently, I was talking with some folks about friendships and how hard it is to make friends. And that they're constantly worried about the way their friends are going to respond to them and like worried that they're not going to be able to like, you know, that they're going to be judged and that it's like, it's pretty stressful. So I'm wondering, I'm wondering how that, how that resonates with, with others about worrying about, about the judgment in social interactions. Me is sharing the chat. I've tried to talk about access needs a lot, but I've been silenced and abused when trying to do so. As a result, I lack confidence raising the issue of access needs. Oh, yeah. If you're the only one talking about access needs, it's, it's, it's just, you know, that's, that it's, it's other ring. And a lot of people act as if, oh, other people don't have these needs. Right, which is such a myth. Everyone has access needs. It's just that some people are more or less likely to get those access needs met. I wonder like, what would life be like if we just started out like, hi, I know, I use she they pronouns, my access needs are for someone else to tell me what button to press and what to say at the beginning of the zoom. Like that would be an amazing world. In the chat, Sarah says, being scared about how others perceive me or other people perceive my access needs makes it hard for me to show up authentically. Yeah. And Zeph says, our atypical access needs can often be conflated with personality or character flaws. Oh yeah, definitely. Oh yes. Matthew. Yes. Talk about access needs. It's very, very, like you said, friendship with access needs. That could be to circle around the question that you asked that. That's a complex method of, you know, try and know what the reality is between access needs and your own personal need. It all intertwines. So when you're, when you're trying to assess, determine what your access needs are and separate between what your personal needs are, it's, it's, it's like a, it's like a hand-in-hand marriage. You've got one side access needs, the other side, your own personal needs. But when they come in intertwined with each other, it's like a perfect marriage of, you know, what are, what makes things possible for ourselves and not only our access needs, but how can we portray it out to the world in a way where it makes their access needs more accessible and more accessible. Thank you. Right. Because we all have personal needs of how we feel safe. Right. And if we don't, like safety comes first, if our basic needs for physical, emotional, all spiritual, like all the different ways in which safety is experienced, that has to come first, you know, if we're not regulated, then we can't fully, meaningfully interact with other people. It's good. No, I was also, and I know we've probably covered this in different aspects, but yeah, the other day, I was wondering, yeah, it was just a situation. I was wondering what I needed to do. And somebody said to me, oh, well, here's a list. And they said, and they said, so and so, did you a favor? And yeah, I didn't say anything in response because I didn't actually feel it was a favor. It was helpful. But favor is a word that I don't know. Like they did something that they didn't need to do. They went out of their way. They bothered themselves to create the list. And why is it a bother? I'm thinking out, I'm thinking out loud. Why is it a bother to help somebody else get their stuff done? Right. And anytime someone needs something, quote, extra, it is implied that they are extra, as opposed to if the thing had been offered in flexible, multiple different ways for you to pick how your assignment was communicated, then it wouldn't be extra. It would just be accessible. Yes, exactly that. Thank you. That helped bring some clarity to my thinking. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been, well, it's somebody else's opinion about what I need. That's why it, that's why it ruffled my feathers. As it should have, turns out only you. Yeah. I wonder how does this play out for others? I'm going to put the prompts back on. Somebody mentioned earlier today about like, my access need is to feel valued in a relationship, any kind of romantic, not romantic, just feeling valued in an interaction. And what might that look like? Or, oh, I'm just remembering. Matthew, go ahead. Yes, I'll answer that question. Thank you, Mel. Yes. You feel like you're valued in a way where it makes sense not only to yourself, but to others too as well. Because being valued for who you are, and also being valued of what your accessibility, not only accessibility components, but accessibility service looks like, you know, towards you, but also the person you're, you know, you're communicating with too as well. So it goes hand in hand with that, your accessibility, you're trying to get that, you know, question answered in a way where it makes sense for both parties. And having that dialogue, as you said, moving forward helps, you know, both sides understand their accessibility, as you said, needs of self-esteem. Thank you. Yeah, self-esteem is a really important concept. You know, someone I was talking with earlier today talked about, you know, I feel like I don't have a strong sense of self, because I am used to, like, contorting myself to, like, meet other people's needs. And I was like, well, when you think about it, if you grow up receiving the message that you, you know, whether it's explicitly or implicitly, that, like, the way you're doing a thing or thinking about a thing is weird or wrong or in some way fundamentally needs to be changed, or if your experience of something is met with, like, oh, oh, that's weird or, oh, it's not too loud or, oh, you're not hot, it's not hot. Like, oh, I guess I can't even really appraise whether I'm hot or not. I guess I don't really know. And then you, like, drive this brain-body disconnect and then without connection, meaningful co-regulation experiences, you're on the train to, you know, all kinds of traumatic transformations that go on when you don't have co-regulation. And that's really hard. So it's like the unlearning of the societal expectations, but it's also like the unlearning of, like, oh, I don't get to have needs, which is hard. Mel? Yeah. Can I read a quote that I love? It's about being gay, but I love the quote because it's really just about being different. And it's something I recently stumbled upon and I love it. And it's kind of counter to everything that, you know, you've been describing that so many of us experience. And so the quote goes, I don't want to be complicit, even peripherally, in the idea that being gay or any form of being different is a problem to be solved or hushed. I'm grateful to be gay, but you can put in neurodivergence there. Queerness is a solution. And so is neurodivergence. It's a promise against cliché and solopism, which I had to look up. It's the ultimate form of isolation. It's a promise against cliché, solopism, and blandness. It's a tilted head and an open window. Oh, I'm just letting that sink in. Thanks, that Nia's got a heart. That's, oh, that is so powerful. And it's an actor whose name I can't remember right now, so I won't take credit for it. But really, you know, we are all solutions. When our needs are met, everybody's life gets easier. It's just pushing through that fight or flight space when people are faced with the idea of any kind of change. Yes. All that, and there's a bunch of people in the chat box and with the modicons, all in support of that. You know, it's interesting. A year ago, which I don't even remember really, I would never have thought this possible. The other day, I lost, I was just my anniversary, my husband, my anniversary. And my parents, they sent an envelope. I don't know what's in it because I lost it. And a year ago, I would have felt like a lot of self-hatred about this, because I lose everything and I can't be trusted with nice things and all the things. However, this time, I was like, yeah, the envelope. How could I not have lost the envelope? I'm doing 50,000 things at a time. And so when people can get to a place to blame the context and the circumstances and not blame yourself, that's a total game changer. And so to your point about the solution, the solution is just to have your needs met. And when your needs are not met, you're not going to be able to do the thing, not the way you want to. Well, and I don't know how many times, years and years and years ago, when I was a nanny, that I used the button that was developed for people in wheelchairs to open the door when I was pushing a double stroller. The button was made for folks who were in wheelchairs, but it worked really effectively for the stroller. Which is why universal design benefits everyone. Like when you think about the curb, rampy thing, that thing. So if that was developed for wheelchair users, able-bodied people who push strollers also benefit from that. And toddlers learning how to walk benefit from that, like having multiple different ways to access the world benefits everyone. So what would happen if we just started all talking about access needs? Would it be like what would that look like? Just went out into the world and started doing it. Matthew. It would look like you have a place and a sense of belonging, not only understanding access needs of others, but also a way that you know what, you guys are communicating all of us are communicating in a way where it makes sense. It makes totally sense, you know, that, you know, the communication that intertwines together if our access needs were met, that would mean the communication aspects of access needs would also be met too as well. That means not only understanding your access needs, but acknowledgement of, you know, what that need, specific need is and how to access it too as well. It's like, if it was a big, you'd get the biggest key, you know, or biggest wish you want to make, you know, within the access needs realm of things, that would be the biggest key of all is that communication of access needs, because without that biggest piece, you know, it's like we're speaking, but nobody's hearing, but if we have that needs, we'll be able to unlock all the other needs we're looking for. Thank you. Thank you, Mia. I'm just thinking that I was, I've often been accused of, of just sort of going on about my own situation with access needs, and like the people saying, oh, you just sort of bring everything back to your own, keep going on about your own situation, and I'm like thinking that's because nobody's hearing me. Like, if you, if you gave me a bit of time to speak about it, and even, even in this sort of safe space, I'm a little conscious, not because of anything anyone said here, but, but like, just because like I was talking last week as well, and, and it's like, particularly the issues around air travel, it's like, I've had to talk about it repeatedly, because nobody's been listening to me, and like nobody's been willing or, or able to do anything, and it's like, because people have tried to shut me down, and because they've been telling me, oh, you just need to take therapy, so that you don't have that need, or, yeah, have therapy to fix your brain as opposed to fixing the injustice, fixing it so you have, so you actually access needs get met. But yeah, I think sort of, I'd like it to be a difference so that if I speak about saying, I have this access need, somebody could sort of help me, like, who helped me point me to the people I'm supposed to speak to. But one thing I find is that because of the experiences I've had, I really struggle advocating for myself, so I find that I need people to advocate on my behalf, but I find it difficult to express that, and a lot of people haven't, and I don't know if it's because I haven't expressed that, or, because I think sometimes I think people more willing than there were, but, but yeah, I do sort of find it hard to ask for that advocacy. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, and there's also like conflicting access needs too of when, when we ask people for help, they may not be able to provide that help because of their own access needs, and that gets complicated too. Sarah. I haven't gotten trouble on meeting. Just backing up just a little bit, access need trouble being on the phone here, and, but also really struck by the fact how much, like the mainstream culture, the access needs of mainstream culture, it's, that there's things that are taken as assumptions, but it's like things like, I mean, I think if we all set that we could list them, but it's things like everybody sitting in the same room, looking in the same direction, making the same kind of eye, making eye contact, and unless mainstream culture has, you know, unless, you know, unless mainstream culture has eye contact and a certain way of people making attention, paying, looking, looking like they're paying attention, and certain kinds of facial expression. I mean, it's, it's like they don't function. And, and so I think it's like, I think we, it's for myself, I have judged myself of like so, so much for not having the sort of not, not doing it the same way that the mainstream or for not functioning well, but I think you're, you're the point you've made before about like the, the, like the mainstream is sort of set, like they're, they're anyway, I'm not expressing myself very well, but I just am struck by the number of like the access needs, like, you know, like, like, don't talk about, you know, talk about the weather, talk about, you know, those are, those are, if you, you want to connect, talk about the weather, talk about, talk about just nothing that means, you know, talk about something as superficial as possible. And, and, and those are the, and, and if someone talks in a different, in a deep, you know, about something more personal than that, I mean, they flip out. So, and, and they can't, and they can't connect. So it's not, and it's not a, I mean, I'm not, anyway, I'm not necessarily describing this in the best way, but having trouble being verbal today. But anyway, I guess I'll stop there. Well, I, I, I think you did a great job. I mean, so really what you're describing is the pathologizing about like oversharing, or like pathologizing anything more than small talk, because there's a right way to be a person and it's to make small talkers, like that's not, that's not the case at all. I'm going to catch up on the chat, sorry I missed all this. Linda shares, I think people would be, so this is back to, like, what would it look like if we just started sharing our access needs and normalize that? Linda says, I think people would be dumbfounded. Someone would be upset that we were being uppity, right? Because we have needs. I'm so much more important. I've need, don't like, no, everybody has needs, right? And Jeff shares, unfortunately, a lot of people would understand the communications with their own implicit assumptions rather than actually listening to the neurodivergent perspective. So it results in not being heard very similar to what Mia shared. Sarah shares, I think it matters how the access needs are met too, with understanding love or with lack of understanding with judgment. Mia shares, I do think it's one thing when people can't meet access needs due to conflicting access needs, but a lot of people could meet our needs, but just refuse to because of their judgment of us. Yeah. And Sarah adds, something that has made me more comfortable talking about my access needs is when other people give feedback, but they did not realize was an access need of theirs until I said it was mine. And too often, people don't know what their access needs are until they've heard someone else talk about their access needs. Yep. Laura? I'm just thinking of Matt's comment earlier about it being a eaver and the comment about refusing to meet it because of judgment. And I think in some ways, it's a perception of that it is more work to meet somebody else's access need. And I think that's the privilege of having your access needs met and being used to other people doing the work. And I think flipping the script is tricky for people that have always had their needs naturally met and don't have to do the work. And I think that might be part of it. It's sort of just unconsciously not even recognizing that by not meeting other people's access needs, we're asking others to accommodate our own. Yes, totally. Totally. Carla has in the chat, for me, it's been a lifelong journey of learning how to assume that my needs are my needs and are no more or less deserving of being met with kindness than of anyone else. And I think that really applies to what Laura's saying is that when people don't adopt that lens, where, you know, well, my needs are more important than other people's needs. Then, yeah. And as that says, I think the word privilege is really important here. There is totally neurotypical privilege. Yeah, there's neurotypical able privilege. And when a lot of, like, you know, I think when these topics come up, people are like, oh, I never thought of that. That's called privilege. So, yeah. Laura, as I think part of being privileged is often not even being aware that you're privileged, right? And even when I confront it, having a hard time seeing it, recognizing it, owning it and changing it. Yeah. The day I launched All Brains Belong, it was a pretty stressful day, you know, because of how inaccessible all the things that, like all the computer systems and all the websites and all the things, we let a staff that I was trying to make happen. And I wrote a LinkedIn post about the 36 steps, the task analysis required to send an electronic prescription for a patient. And, you know, when you have the kind of brain that doesn't have to actively motor plan and sequence each step, step by step, it doesn't seem like a big deal. And so when the electronic medical record company, their tech support, when I gave the feedback that I found their system, the pop-ups that were, like, moving ads in the middle of the thing, I found that, like, a barrier to my access. I was like, I've never heard this before. Never heard that this has been a problem. That really made me feel included. Let me tell you. It's just like, yeah, it must be really nice to have the kind of brain that doesn't get completely shut down every time something moves in front of your visual field. That must be nice. But that's how it goes. Mackie. Like you said, access needs are also universal needs too, as well. Because not every access needs, you know, is the one and the same. So looking at it this way is, you know, what your conflicting access needs are may work for me, but vice versa, what my conflicting access needs may not work for you. So when I look at this as a universal universal access need that intertwines in a spectrum of access needs throughout, you know, our lives, it's like, you know, like what you had said, it's just, you know, it's that barriers. Like you said, it must be nice to have a brain that doesn't shut down block out or actually, or, you know, block out, you know, out of negativity, but also the conflicting needs too, as well. And the way I look at this, you know, with conflicting access needs, it's, you know, there's barriers within it. And that's that that's to assume that our own access needs, you know, how can, which is also a barrier to make sure that what we want and are conflicting that our needs, you know, is actually being heard has to be universal. So the message is clear for all sides to partake. Thank you. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the, for those of you who participated in our community health education fair a couple of weekends ago, you know, one of the big topics that we spent a lot of time in was about COVID, COVID risk and the conflicting access needs that that arise when member safety comes first, if people are not able to safely access public schools, social events that are only offered in one way. And I think it's an interesting topic where I think that I just wonder what you think of that and how that's how that's playing out in your own lives. And while you're thinking, I'll just also throw out there that when we think about, you know, among all comers, one in five people who get COVID will go on to get long COVID. And even of those people get COVID again, autoimmune disease, stepwise progression. And for the neurodivergent community, that risk is even higher than that one in five. And so we have really further marginalization of a huge group of people. And we think about, you know, 20% of the population that learns things or communicates differently, you know, than the typical brain. And even amongst neurodivergent people who got COVID and didn't get long COVID, like really need to not get COVID again. And that that piece is often missing from the community conversations around, around equity, who gets to show up and who feels like they belong on Sierra shares. And access need I often ask for is hybrid options for events due to my risk of COVID complications. I also know that hybrid options work better for my brain in general. And other people are going to benefit from an event being hybrid and not an in person. Yeah. And so like normalizing that discussion of like, I wonder if a hybrid option had been considered or, you know, the more the more we talk about it, the more the more it gets talked about. Matt, were you going to say something? I thought I heard your sound, your voice. No, sorry. Maybe I was hallucinating. But nice to hear your voice now. No, for me, my social life sort of really took off when COVID stuff, because everybody was online more. And I think it got more, more people talking to each other. I think that a lot of people, there were a lot of progressive people out there before, but I think it got them thinking that, you know, the way, the way the world is really isn't working. And like, I think they always thought it, but like, I think COVID showed, because a lot of things like that people said for years ago, we can't have people working remotely. Suddenly, they found they have to. And actually, I think COVID has shown that a lot is more possible than people have made out to be. Yeah, that's really well said. And I think that, you know, connection looks different for so many people. And when it was, you know, when the prompt came to learn to connect, for people who had not been previously connecting, either virtually or asynchronously, like I remember when my then three year old, you know, when we were in lockdown in 2020, we discovered the Marco Polo app with like video messages back and forth to people, which like accounted for processing time and no pressure right now to respond. You can respond like when you want to, like an email, like a text message. It was just, you know, in many ways, like more social opportunities. Bye, Carla. Thanks for coming. Anyway, more more opportunities when we think about how asynchronous communication just as valid as synchronous communication, virtual communication just as valid as in person. And I think the idea of having options. Yeah, sorry. One thing that I found interesting was like for years, people were like when I tried to speak about things like civil liberties and human rights, people will say, oh, you need to forego those like for the for safety, like, like, security is more important than liberty, they'd say, like, for the greater good and all of that. But what I find interesting was that when COVID struck, like, and people were asked to stay home or get vaccinated, they then suddenly started speaking about civil liberties. And funny enough, all the people who were like on the right and who sort of have opposed civil, like my civil liberties over the years, they're suddenly talking about, oh, what about my civil liberties? So I found that interesting to see that actually suddenly it's like, they're like, oh, I don't like it when it happens to me, sort of thing. And it helped me see that actually, they don't like it. It's just they've never, they've never had to worry about it before. That is interesting. And I think like reframing liberty, like, you know, the freedom, the freedom to be healthy, the freedom to, you know, like, it's just anyway, I think that that yeah, Jamie, go ahead. Oh, I would love for you to finish your thought because you're talking a lot of good stuff about freedom, liberty, and that being for everyone to not just be loud and entitled to you. I have other thoughts on go for it. You just finished my thought for me. I was gonna forget it anyway, so you did it better. Thanks interdependent sentence. Hey, thank you. So I wanted to bring up I work at the University of Vermont. And just thinking about how having things be hybrid can make things so much more accessible. But the way things were set up there with classes is teachers were basically told to figure it out on your own time. And so, of course, with no additional time, no additional pay, like the supports they had were classes for how to make their classes hybrid, but really nothing beyond that. And the teachers told to resent that extra work and just how incredibly frustrating and galling it is that we have these systemic level issues being forced to be solved on the individual level. And of course, you can't do that. So. Right, because so the idea of systemic problems falling to the burden of the individual interfering with the individual's autonomy, interfering with the individual's access needs, it's just like co-disregulation and chaos. That is so well said, Jamie. The teacher who would normally teach four classes in person instead of being told now teach four classes hybrid and just deal with it, if it were instead, okay, cool, pivot, teach three classes and take that extra time to make this accessible to so many more people. But it really shows that the priority isn't on reaching as many people as possible, that is frustrating. Right, it's not reasonable. It's not reasonable and it's beyond the capacity of anyone. And of course, that's not going to work for anybody. Zef shares in the chat, it wasn't until COVID that I started getting access needs met for everything from tele therapy, telehealth, actually being able to get food delivered, being able to use EBT and SNAP for delivery purchase. And Claudia shares in order for individual needs to be met. We need community, we need connection. Humans are wired for connection. So I think that this is the start of our month of conversations that we need to be having around access. And related to that next week, we have an interesting experiment. I'm giving a talk for healthcare providers. It's the medical staff meeting at Sons of Vermont Medical Center, and we've arranged it that you all can come virtually. We're still working out the logistics, but I think what's going to happen is that you can come here. Right, right. But what we're going to do, because they use a platform that is often tricky to navigate, and that being Microsoft Teams. But it's terrible. It's the worst, right. So anyway, we're going to meet here for Brain Club, and we're going to support each other in the culture of interdependence to make the transition over to Teams together. We're going to try this out. Laura and I were talking about when there's a systemic inaccessible problem, maybe we should just take on these projects. So the people won't have to reinvent the wheel. So if there's an onboarding process that we don't have control over, maybe we'll just shepherd it and make it better to parallel play with it. And so we're going to parallel play with a transition to Microsoft Teams next week so that you all can join. Mia? Yeah, one slogan regarding reinventing the wheel and all of that. One slogan that people have put at me over the years is that I find so disempowering is don't worry about things you can't control. And it's like, well, have you thought about why I can't control it? And it's because nobody's, because like those sort of that a way of thinking is what makes makes it harder to control. Right. And just the idea that another person can tell you what you're allowed to worry about is just so offensive to me. You don't get to pick what you worry about. If your limbic system is triggered by something, it's for a reason. Downstairs brain is trying to get your attention. And like that's, yeah. And so you're getting some applause in the chat. Have you thought about why I can't control it? Right. Exactly. Yes. So we will support one another for those who are able to make it next week. I'm going to be talking about neurocultural competence in healthcare to a group of physicians who have maybe never heard about this before. And I think it'll be really cool that you'll all be there with me. So we'll see you here. And we'll make the trip. We'll make the trip over to Microsoft Teams together afterwards. Mel, thank you so much. And I'm super excited for next week. Oh my gosh. Awesome. So it's the same, it's the same link as this, except I will try to send it out correctly the first time. And then what we'll do is when they're ready for the group to join, because it's like, you know, medical staff business meeting first. So like when they're done with that, we'll have the teams link in the chat and we can hop over. I think is how we're going to go. But team from work immediate, I would love to connect with you about this and figure out how maybe you have other ideas that are more efficient than my dyspraxic brain came up with. Mia. Yeah, I was going to say that before we go, I responded to your email. Oh, cool. I'll look for it. Yeah, you said something about you were asking me what what you were going to send me something and you you forgot what and I just reminded you and and you asked me to send a link that that I that I put on the chat last week Oh, great. Closed. So so yeah, I I sent it yesterday. Um, yeah, yesterday at 1248. 1248 p.m. Your time because 1340. Yeah, it's, um, it's 705 where you are now, isn't it? Yes. Yes. So 1348 amazing. I will I will I will look out for it. I I get about 100 emails a day and so it takes me I apologize it thanks for your patience with me it takes it takes me a long time to get through my emails but I look forward to seeing it. All right, thanks everyone.