 Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Mustapha Naseem and I'm a clinical assistant professor at the University of Michigan School of Information. I'm going to be the moderator for this panel discussion titled how software companies are driving tech for good. The goal of the panel is to learn more about how different software companies are creating social impact to specific technology based initiatives. Each of the panelists will give a brief three to five minute introductory remarks, after which we'll have an engaging 20 minute interactive conversation before moving on to 15 minutes of question and answers from the audience. The session is sponsored by Red Hat and we're grateful for their support. We have an amazing group of panelists and I'm looking forward to an engaging discussion. Our first speaker on the panel today is Phyllis Vesterman. Phyllis has worked for Red Hat for 8.5 years and holds an MBA degree. Phyllis has spoken internationally in the US, Europe and Asia around the topics of communities of practice, open organization principles, social innovation, and served as the master of ceremonies for Red Hat in internal conferences. Phyllis resides in North Carolina. Phyllis, will you start us off by giving three to five minutes of introductory remarks. Sure. Thank you, Mustafa, and thank you everyone for this opportunity. The topic at hand is very near and dear to my heart as well as my role in the technical industry. If you're not familiar with Red Hat, we are the world's enterprise open source leader. And that is very open source, both on the technical side, as well as the cultural and the principles of practice is very important to us. We use a very unique community powered approach to deliver high performing Linux cloud container and Kubernetes technologies. We were founded in 1993, we have about 16,000 employees globally, and in July of 2019, just a little over a year ago, we were acquired by IBM, but we operate as a subsidiary. As Mustafa said, I'm the senior manager of the Knowledge Management Office, and in most corporations, you would think of the Knowledge Management Office as content management and taxonomy and tools and processes. Well, that's exactly what it is at Red Hat, except for our charter also includes programs that support and encourage collaboration amongst our internal associates. We use communities of practice to destroy silos. We're probably all familiar no matter what industry we're in that teams can lack communication from one team or one org or one geo to another. So our communities of practice are a vehicle to bring every role together at Red Hat and encourage that full circle feedback. And in our case, that's from the products and technology, the developer side to the field, those sales and delivery and taking feedback back to our technical teams. So Red Hat is successful because of our culture. So I want to make sure I highlight that because the culture influences why and how social innovation and social good, why it's been so successful as at Red Hat. Our culture is based upon principles such as collaboration, trust, meritocracy, transparency and openness. And I do a plug for a book that Jim Whitehurst, our former CEO and now president of IBM wrote called the open org. And it's free. It's online, but this book talks a lot about what are open principles and how do you become successful in the world with open principles. And I also have to say thank you to Alexandra Machado. She is our senior manager of the social innovation program at Red Hat, and she had her first daughter this week two days ago. So I'm filling in for her, but I have worked in social innovation since Alexandra started this journey and she's really come out of the gates like so fast. And now we have an official program at Red Hat. We've always had volunteer opportunities to do good in the world. But social innovation is specific to doing good in the software world with nonprofits. So our social innovation mission is to connect Red Hatters and nonprofits to the power of open source. So our associates win, the open source projects win, and overall the world wins. And two of the key benefits that have made this program so successful. One of them is employee engagement. We have found that Red Hatters are called to contribute their time and their skills and their passions to do good in the world. So we formed this program where we work with nonprofits, and we work with all kinds of open source projects, and we have volunteers that work nights weekends, and then something new we introduced this year. As a result of the pandemic is that we're actually granting Red Hat time for people to contribute to some of the open source projects related to COVID-19 and fighting the pandemic. So a benefit we found as individuals and as a company is participating in these opportunities also helps up skill and train our associates. And so it's a win-win situation. People maybe want, maybe are nervous to contribute because they don't work in open shift every day, but there's this open source project for the World Health Organization where they can participate without any risk of being shut down or making a wrong step. So in 2018 and 19 is really when we entered the world of social innovation and professional services and consulting at Red Hat. And we've worked with UNICEF Greenpeace with Laura, actually another panelists. And in all of these cases, we donated our time and our resources on the technical side, as well as the cultural side. So we wanted to teach them the power of open source through principles, through practices. And then, so we've worked with World Health Organization since the pandemic, and then our internal Red Hat corporate sponsored initiative has been coined since 2019. And as soon as the pandemic hit, we had a response from Red Haters right away saying, what are we doing as Red Haters to fight this pandemic? We have all these talented people and skills. And so within a couple of weeks, Team 19 was launched. And that's four open source projects, mostly dealing with healthcare, contact tracing, where people get the knowledge and the information about the pandemic they need on their mobile phone right away. And so we have been working on these Team 19 projects as a company on volunteer time, but Red Hat approves the time since probably April. So that's just a tidbit of what we're doing at Red Hat. And I'll give it back over to you, Mustafa. Thank you, Phyllis, for that very brief overview but really engaging. I'm looking forward to diving deeper into some of the projects that you've mentioned, but also the culture that you've mentioned is key to doing socially impactful projects at Red Hat. So I'm looking forward to our conversation. Our second speaker for today is Laura Hiliker. Laura is a writer, activist and technologist. She's a co-founder of the We Are Open co-op and ambassador for the Open Organization is helping to open up Greenpeace and a Mozilla alum. Laura's bio indicates she wears many hats and her work has included being a conceptual architect, a multimedia designer and developer, a technical liaison, a project manager, and an open advocate who is happiest in collaborative environments. In 2020, Laura won the Women in IT Digital Leader of the Year award. We're very excited to have her here. Laura, if you could take the stage and take it away. Thank you, Mustafa, and thank you for inviting me. Mustafa already said a lot of what I was going to say, but I'll just go a little bit more in depth. As he said, my name is Laura Hiliker and I am an ambassador for an open organization. The OpenOrg is a community of open experts who are working to essentially define and spread open principles across various industries. I'm also a director of We Are Open Cooperative, which is a worker owned cooperative and my co-op is organized around the express mission of helping both private and public sector organizations learn and utilize the culture and processes of open source. I was awarded that Digital Leader of the Year award for my work in this area, really connecting open culture to the nonprofit industry. And I believe that when organizations and projects work openly, there's no limit to the amount of impact that they can have. I work with Greenpeace and Red Hat, which both Mustafa and Phyllis mentioned. I've managed to facilitate a connection that motivates open source contributions to technology for environmental good. So connecting open tech companies to nonprofit initiatives really helps eliminate problems on both sides. On one side, the nonprofit side, a lack of resources can hamstring innovation. And on the other side, employee happiness really relies on a values alignment with their organization. Corporate responsibility programs can help reduce the impact of both of these problems by giving their staff a mechanism to contribute to a better world, which by extension helps nonprofits who might not have as many resources as possible with global key issues, which Phyllis also mentioned with COVID-19 responses, as well as stuff like environmental or social justice. This corporate responsibility really actually helps a private company in their social scorecard because they're working to show their staff and their industry partners, as well as the public at large, where their values lie. And that can be a very interesting and engaging reason for people to pay more attention to an organization in the private sector. We are open co-op, helps organizations do this. We help organizations who are looking to innovate and engage, use open principles and practices, and improve open mindsets. Sometimes our work is about technology, but most of the time it's about digital savvy, distributed leadership, empowering people, and structural change that allows for the people working in an organization to feel real agency. We don't just throw technical solutions at the issues that we address because technology is just a tool. It's like a pencil. If you can't draw, then the tool might not work for you and it's the people behind the technology that are out there changing the world. I wanted to mention a little bit about the cooperative structure because a co-op structure is inherently a social economic structure because cooperatives are worker owned. The engagement of the organization is an extension of each member's motivation for a more equitable world. A co-operative exists for the benefits of its members rather than for a shareholder or a market. It's a one-member, one-vote structure. And this reality means that people are more likely to join a co-operative that aligns with their personal values and motivations and to influence that co-operative to kind of walk the walk in what they personally believe. Interestingly, although cooperatives are gaining more traction at this point in history, it's been a profitable alternative to capital-based economic structures for a very, very long time. Capitalism and cooperatism grew up together. It's just that in our world, capitalism has tended to be the more mainstream option. However, co-ops contribute trillions to the world economy every year. If we start talking about driving tech for good, we have to start thinking about the governance structures that influence the motivations. And I think that we've really come to a point in history where we need to sort of question the structures that are driving our world because we're seeing what the impacts of individualism and capitalism have actually done to our world. And it's particularly obvious since the pandemic. These capitalist structures are starting to crumble. And I think that we owe it to ourselves, our environment and each other to sort of return to our true animal nature of collectivism. Human beings were built to collaborate and to coordinate with each other. We were built to take care of each other, and we need to give that back into everything that we're doing in the world of business. So today I'm going to put on that activist hat and kind of situate myself pretty firmly in the cooperative perspective. But I'm pretty sure that my experience in the worlds of technology and nonprofits are going to shine through a little bit. So I'm interested to see where we go. Thank you so much. Thank you, Laura. And thank you for bringing your activist hat to this panel. I think we can use that here. Last but not the least, we have Mercedes Escalade. Mercedes is originally from Peru and joined IBM Latin America in 1995. Most of her career has been in human resources. She has had roles as the HR leader in compensation and benefits leader. Eight years ago she moved to the US with her family and was responsible for global recognition and compensation in North America and Latin America. In January 2019, she is embarked on a new career as VP of corporate citizenship initiatives, bringing together two of her passions, making a social impact and driving employees to find purpose on what they do. We're very excited to have you here Mercedes. Please take it away. Thank you so much, Mustafa. Thanks, Yuli, and Laura, in honor to be sharing the stage with you. I would say the video with you. But it's been great just to be part of it. I appreciate the invitation, but being part of this very diverse set of experiences. I'm going to very quickly tell you a little bit about what I do here at IBM and how do we drive social impact. One important thing, you know, in IBM we are a technology company and we are really focused on how can we really use technology for good. How can we make this available for everybody? So what we've done as part of our CSR strategy is we need to really deliver CSR just as we deliver the business. So in order to enable that deep social impact at scale, we apply the same principles that we use to drive our business. And what are they, you know, user centricity, putting the user at the forefront of all the CSR initiatives, you know, trying to really make sure that we are we understand our audiences. We know what IBMers skills are. How do we make that perfect match? Then the important part of the co-creation piece, just how do we get those communities, those audiences to work with us with partnerships, with innovation programs, just co-create things that will allow IBMers to grow as part of the initiative, learn new things, reach out to other peers to really drive impact, and also provide those communities the level of social impact that we want. We also understand that CSR just, you know, I think Laura was mentioning around how important it is for a brand to really showcase what their values are. And this is exactly what we do with CSR. We have the possibility to actually go to the individual. IBM is a B2B company. We're not on the retail market. We do not have like a first-hand customer, but every time we deploy a CSR project, we are there with the individual. We can tell people what IBM's values are, what we do, and how we can use technology to drive that social good. So that's what we do. I am going to turn it over to you, Mustafa, so we can start the questions. This is perfect. Thank you, Mercedes. So I'll start a question with you directly. This question is from one of my students in my class, Drew, and Drew asks, what do you believe is a corporation's role in supporting social responsibility initiatives? Do you believe corporations should simply support activists or be leaders themselves and why? You touched upon it briefly in your introductory remarks, both in terms of co-creations and working with partners, but also delivering CSR just like you would deliver your business, which is to putting the user at the center and designing solutions yourself. So how does IBM balance this? What do you think is the ideal balance? What does the ideal balance look like? Should IBM be delivering social impact themselves or should IBM be supporting activists in delivering social impact? Well, a great question, definitely very thought through, so I appreciate the question. And I personally believe that we should, corporations should be leading by example, be the leaders, drive what you really want to drive. And as I mentioned, for us in IBM, we believe that science and technology have the power to change the world, but not for some of us, but for all of us. How can we drive that that really makes an effort to be scalable, to really drive that social impact that we want? So you've heard what I've shared about our focus on user centricity, but as a leader, how do we make sure that we have great talent, we have great technology? How can we help people succeed and communities thrive? And believe it or not, we've been doing this for many years, but every time I share our story, more companies feel that they can do, maybe not at the same level, you know, we're a big corporation. But it's just planting that seed of leaders just opening the trenches for others to follow. That's my answer to the question. Thank you, Mercedes. Laura and Phyllis, do you want to add to that? I know both of you have mentioned contributing employee time to open source projects, but do either of your organizations initiate the projects yourselves, or do you just partner with other organizations such as Greenpeace or UNICEF that have boots on the ground? So we do both at Red Hat. I think the easiest route to market is partnering with a nonprofit that already has a project in motion where we can bring our talents and our resources to assist them in advancing the project. So that's what we did with the Initiative Team 19, where we started contributing to four open source projects that already existed. And what we did as a company, and I was the project manager and the project manager on a project called Open EMR from the Red Hat side, is I helped onboard our associates. Open source is what a lot of our associates do every day on the development side, but people like myself that may be in a different role where I'm not coding and developing every day. It was scary to think, oh, how do I even get started contributing? And so my role and others at Red Hat, our role was to onboard them and help them get started, match them with a mentor that can guide them. I feel like the responsibility was shared. Red Hat supports it and saw this as very important, and that's why they gave us time to contribute. But it's also the individual, I think we got four hours a week for the rest of the year, and people would contribute at night's weekends. You know, it's really what the individual makes of it. And one other thing is we celebrate their contributions. It has nothing, they may be developing their skills, but it's not associated with a promotion or anything, but we give what we call Red Hat reward zone points and we just gave a bunch out, and we recognize them. And we also, we have a Red Hat wide TV show once a quarter, and social innovation was featured on our anniversary episode that goes to all 16,000 employees and we have virtual parties. And the team 19 projects and specific people were featured on that. So that's kind of a pad on the back as well. Thank you for sharing that it goes on to the point that you made initially which is to set the culture right. And once you do that a lot of people get motivated and driven to contribute to work social causes. Laura, as you answer this question I want you to wear your activist hat. And so from the activist side, would you rather the large tech companies contribute employee time or what do you think activists would prefer to just be supported financially monetarily otherwise. How do you or, or if large tech companies want to drive the project themselves and have activists provide input from the outside which one do you think activists would prefer. With my activist hat on, I think that it's not an either or question I think the activist community needs and wants, especially large corporate entities to do all of those things and a little bit more. It's not just about donating money. It's not just about donating resources but also taking leadership because some of the problems that we're dealing with are global problems that are affecting people all over the world. And a lot of times some of those problems are actually coming from the private sector and so what we need is more activism that is not just looking at you know at the end of the day for my company. What's going to make us look good, but rather how can we truly, you know, support what's going on in the world and be good for lack of a better term. And I think that the, you know, the larger in an organization gets the more complicated that gets because, you know, at the end of the day, the more people the more ideas, also the more motivations, and some people are motivated. You know, to figure out how to deal with systemic inequalities and, you know, help our planet help the world other people are motivated by other things. And, you know, like with the activists had on we have to admit some people are motivated by money. And that means that they're going to make the decision that makes their organization more money, as opposed to what might be better for the world. And that's okay if we accept that reality but we have to put measures in place to protect things like the Commons, so that the things that we all share are not being damaged by one or another person's companies, you know, entities motivations but but rather that we figure out ways that we can, you know, help protect the things that we all have to share. So. Thank you Laura for sharing that in about 10 minutes time we're going to start to go towards question and answers from the from the audience. So I would just like to encourage the audience to start submitting your question and answer so we can start taking them in about 10 minutes. Laura, I just want to come back to you as to what you just said, and then something that you said in your introductory remarks as well was around giving the companies a scorecard some sort of scorecard in terms of how they're doing in terms of social impact. Do you are you aware of such a scorecard card existing. Are there existing metrics through which companies contract their own progress in terms of how they're doing in terms of social impact and is this kind of reading available for consumers to go see how companies are doing in terms of their social impact projects. Yeah, there are a variety of frameworks that companies can use to judge themselves on everything from, you know, what their carbon footprint is to you know how racial racially equitable they are. There's plenty of different frameworks that allow companies to sort of see where they fall on the scale. And when I said social scorecard I was actually thinking more about sort of the unwritten identity piece of the scorecard and kind of talking about like, you know, how do we, you know, how do we as a global community make sure that people are doing things for the right reason and in the right way, as opposed to, you know, for maybe reasons that we don't all agree with. And so when I was saying social scorecard I start to think about companies who, you know, say that they're green, for example, but aren't actually green or, you know, say that they care about systemic inequalities, but then support, you know, other organizations or communities that clearly do not. And I think, you know, I think there's a problem of saying that you have a particular value, but acting in a different way. And I think that, you know, part of what I do is I really, I want to hold truth to power, and to help people see that actions matter, our actions matter both individually, but also, you know, in a more in a social construct. And so when I think about that scorecard I'm thinking about how do we, you know, how do we actually have that conversation in a way that benefits all motivations. I think it's really important to hold truth to power and I'm glad. I'm glad you're here on the panel but also just the work that activists generally do do hold large corporations to account. I want to transition the conversation just a little bit and talk about open source and open source principles and open source and start to talk about how, how do we go about creating communities of practice and what are some of the challenges that are affiliated with creating communities of practice around open source which is a huge part of open source principles. And so the question that I want to present to Phyllis is from one of my students, Julian Powers, and Julian asks, can you talk about some of the challenges you've encountered evangelizing for communities of practice and global communities or businesses. How do you go about convincing people who think of coordination as a threat, who are not, who don't buy in into openness and communities of practice around openness. Thank you, Miss Daffa and to the student who submitted that question. I love talking about communities of practice. It's been part of my career for the past eight and a half years, and it's very important to red hat, but I have been with the program, and now we have 43 communities of practice at red hat that are internal and we have all of our open source communities that are external that we support and moderate. But I have been there through the initiation and implementation so I'm very well aware of the challenges and I think back eight years ago when I started communities of practice. By definition, we're bringing practitioners together, and I added aspiring practitioners, because the community of practice is a great place to go to to learn about something. So practitioners and aspiring practitioners to have a forum to share best practices challenges issues ideas. So it's all based upon openness. And I want to make sure I relate this to social good so let me just give you a quick rundown of the challenges getting started is the first challenge. Because we have a group let's say there are 10 super engaged super excited people, and I'll talk about our social innovation community of practice. So we have COPs around technical areas like our products or system integration, everything from products and functionality to roles like I want to become a project manager let me go here and learn about it or user experience. So with social innovation, it starts with a small group of very passionate people and Alexandra Machado, Mariela sister is one of those people at red hat, and it was not hard to find a group of other passionate people it's just the culture of red hat. So this group of people got together, and then they start that journey of creating buy in and and awareness. So you're you're going to get pushed back from from some people. And what I learned because I've been through this for eight years is I had the door slammed in my face, many times, and you just got to open it back up and keep trying. So it's time and time of getting in front of people. Middle managers are hard to convince sometimes so that was where I targeted is convincing our middle managers that communities of practice are the best way to reduce cycles to share knowledge to for professional development and career development, and to share and repurpose knowledge, whether it's within your company or your nonprofit or your community, or you're sharing it with the world. And so for social innovation. That's a lot of what we're doing by contributing to these open source projects and there are barriers to entry like I don't know how to get started. So we realize that and we're creating onboarding materials and mentoring relationships. The idea is everyone is invited to the community. No one's, we don't close the door to anyone, regardless of your role your location your skill level, your opinions, you're all welcome. Thank you for this so we have a question from the audience which is very relevant to what you just said so I'll pose it to you and then also to Mercedes. So the question is from Sean Melville. And the question is how can a social enterprise or NGO reach out to an IBM or a red hat to access technical support from a volunteer employees. So you've mentioned that you're trying to create these resources to onboard people. Can you talk a little bit more about that and what what should an NGO or social enterprise do to reach out to red hat to get those resources. Sure, so our program, the official program for social innovation where we dedicate and donate our time and resources is just getting going as far as setting up the processes in the framework. I think, and Laura would know firsthand with Greenpeace either there was already an existing engagement or a relationship that was already existed, or Laura nodding her head I'm not sure how Greenpeace got involved. Laura, could you answer that so yes. Well, I, the way that the Greenpeace and the red hat connection happened was because I walked up to Alexandra after I saw her on a panel at a red hat summit a number of years ago and I said, you know what you this thing that you're trying to do the social innovation at the time. She had just done a pilot program with UNICEF. And she sat on a panel and she was actually working with a university and sorry I don't remember which university but the university was helping their students learn technical skills and they were donating time to red hat, which Alexandra then redirected towards UNICEF. And I saw her speaking about this and this program and I said, ooh, that's very interesting and also I know a project at Greenpeace that could really benefit from having some help from Greenpeace. At the time we were just, we were a couple of years in into development of a global engagement platform called Planet Four. And we had, you know, just a couple of people on the team and so I was looking for any way to, you know, sort of expand resources. And then Alexandra and I spent a year and a half trying to figure out the ins and outs of how do we, how do we actually bring these two organizations together. You know, it's why that experience is part of the reason that, you know, that I bring up the idea that we have to do both from a private sector perspective, both of donate resources and start our own projects but also let activists and communities lead because the, you know, the associating Greenpeace and red hat as a brand, like together, was not without its trials and tribulations and I think it's, you know, it's, it's really important that that we do the legwork to make sure that everybody's happy in a partnership. And so and that, you know, involves give and take. And let me let me just quickly say that in the case of IBM, it's pretty easy you go to www.ivm.org that's our platform you just, you know, scroll there. Check the different things that we're doing the, the different initiatives is very easy. And you know my name, Mercedes, you can reach out to me too. I was going to reverse if it's okay Mustafa, I was just going to say thank you Laura for sharing, and that is perfect because that is exactly what I was going to ask Sean to do. Since we don't have a website yet, I was going to ask Sean just email me and I'll give you my email address because this is how we're getting started and building on our program. So Laura, thank you for talking to Alexandra after that session and I encourage all of the attendees to have the courage to do like Laura did walk. That's how I've gotten most of the speaking opportunities that Mustafa talked about is I had courage to just take a chance and you never know what's going to come out of it. And I think what I'm hearing from all of you is personal connections matter a lot and and being able to be bold and reach out goes a really long way. A lot of some of the really great partnerships that I've been a part of as far as my professional work goes is through people I met at a conference at a panel at a workshop, and then strike up a conversation afterwards. That being said, I do hope that are more formal structured opportunities as well, because especially for a smaller nonprofit that that nobody's ever heard of it can be really intimidating to reach out to somebody and do a call call but also oftentimes you'll knock on so many doors and just never hear back and so having those kinds of structured opportunities is also useful. I would like to encourage our audience to continue to keep asking questions and I'm seeing them directly in the Q&A panel and and if we don't have them then I'll just keep bringing my own questions. So Laura I have a question for you that one of my students Sylvia had asked that said, there's so many contextual factors to consider when creating socially impactful technology. What does the initial research and development stages look like in the creation process. What steps have you seen companies take to ensure that their technologies are harmonious with their intended social or cultural environment, especially when you're partnering with other cross sector collaborators as well. So that's a great question and I think I'll preface my answer by saying that every context is different, so a different, you know, different nonprofits or cooperatives or corporations you know they're going to need to design their, their offerings to the world, depending on you know what their reality is inside of their organization and the reality of whatever issue that they're trying to address. I think that the first step is always to identify the problem that you want to that you want to address and that should be quite specific. And when I think about you know when I think about a sort of the discovery phase I really think a lot about the fact that often projects or even organizations fail because they don't take the time to really gather enough information from both the users so the end user the people that they're trying to support, as well as the stakeholders. So we, you know, I, I think it's really important that we think from that people first perspective, what do people actually need and not just you know the person that's at the other side of the technology but also the people that work in the business that are funding the development of that technology that you know the activists that are on the ground that have to use that technology. You know there's, it's really important to think of all these different stakeholders, and then you know be quite clear about the people who are going to be using it at the, at the end. And I, yeah, I mean for as far as like specifics around a discovery phase, you know, starting with people and the audience and then, you know, finding figuring out the problem being specific about the problem being specific about the audience, and then taking time and using participatory methodologies to generate ideas and really, you know, doing your research I think that that is such a key piece to designing good technology that has, you know, a social impact. And I also think it's the piece where people cut corners the most, or organizations cut corners the most because we tend to think we know what people want without asking them. And, you know, we see a lot of we see a lot of good ideas fail, because you know they didn't take the time to do the user research up front. I think this is really important I, I feel fortunate as an academic. I don't have the same kind of time pressures as corporations do. So I can start to take the energy and the effort required to keep continue to listen. One of the projects that I'm working on with colleagues in Pakistan is around trying to create digital safe spaces for women who live in patriarchal context and don't have social support, especially for women who are in abusive marriages or have to deal with intimate partner violence. And, and we've been working on this project for about two years. And thus far, neither I nor my collaborators have written a single line of code. I mean, we've been listening and and and every time we listen we find that there's more nuance and more context and more challenges and we don't want to unintentionally go ahead and create a platform or a service that leads to other unintended negative consequences we don't want our platform to lead to more domestic violence, or putting these women and more danger for example. And one example I can share from from this particular project is, we were thinking about creating hidden backdoors in applications that women could use to enter this feminist, say, digital safe space that we were creating. And I feel like the actual password would connect you to this feminist space, but any, any kind of other password like like a dual pin so a second pin would get you into a more benign application so if you if you hit login, you enter the right password you go to this feminist space, but if you hit another password will take you to whether or news or something like that. And it asks you, what's the password to the service you can just give them this other password and it'll take you to this benign service and you won't get discovered for using this feminist digital space. So you're talking to one of these women and one of the things that came up in our findings was, she said when he gets really angry and threatens to beat me up. I will just blurt whatever number comes to my mind and odds are I'm going to give him the real password to the real service. I need to remember this other password that will give get to this more benign service. Why can't I just give any other number that comes to my mind. And so just talking about participating principles listening to the users listening to their context and then trying to understand that context, as you're trying to develop solutions for privacy for authentication for communication on such platforms as well. I'm still waiting for more questions but Maria has asked this question around, how have your programming, how is your programming changed around Kobe. So, I know Phyllis mentioned team 19. Mercedes has IBM done stuff around Kobe 19 and how are you partnering with organizations on the ground to support initiatives for for Kobe 19 and then Laura for you as well around, either from your co op or from some of the other corporations that you support. What are some influential projects that you've seen around Kobe so we'll start with Mercedes, and then we'll come to Phyllis and then Laura. Yes, we've had different initiatives. We have a very strong pillar within CSR that's focused on education and skills. So we actually opened our platform our education platform for free to all students and around the world. We've had great teams of IBMers actually taking their own initiative and starting groups around the world, just driving webinars and seminars around education, not only technology actually our most popular download class is the mindfulness class that we developed with the University of Oxford. So we have 2,000 people have certified. We have live sessions with teachers that are really busy, you know, good busy, which is great. Then on the other side of the world we started to help small and medium businesses just a think about what the, you know, the new role of them in society will be it's very easy to tell people go reinvent yourself some people don't know where to start. So having an IBM or that can you know be your coach you're trying to curate material try to create information for them and we have great partners that have been part of those initiatives. So, many, many different ways of helping with a comeback. So, then the other things of course, local food pantries, making masks, all that IBMers just keep surprising us of how above and beyond they do go one step forward to different initiatives so we've done great things. The team is committed to follow on all those for 2021, all our support is virtual. That was also very challenging. We were used to do things face to face and now everything had to be done virtually. And we flipped very quickly, which I'm also very proud. So, yeah, that's what we've done. Thank you, Mercedes. Phyllis do you want to talk about one of the COVID initiatives that you talked about earlier on. Sure. So we have four open source projects open EMR COVID net path check and connected health. And open EMR is a project that that I am working on and it's about open source electronic medical records. And so since it's open source it's going to be available for more people to have access to it's not going to be proprietary or require a lot of funding. I see this is really moving in the right direction and it also encourages people to like collectivism people to come together. We have we all need to come together and that's what open source does is help bring people together. And these projects are just a couple of examples of the opportunities out there and and going virtual was very tough for everyone in the beginning that we learn these new ways of working. And now we have really no excuse to not contribute because we know how it works now we're all virtual. Thank you Phyllis. I'm excited to learn more about open EMR familiar with open MRS and open SRP for immunization systems, looking forward to EMR as well. Laura, do you want to quickly jump in and talk about what organizations are doing around COVID and a project that stands out for you. I think the one that stands out to me a project that we've been while a number of projects that we've had at we are open this year have been helping small charities and nonprofits who have no technical skills or very low technical skills actually create programming and access marginalized communities. We're talking about charities that have two or three employees that used to run a homeless shelter, you know, in the back street in London or, you know, artistic charities who, you know have 10 employees and used to have a museum that they no longer can afford the rent time because when COVID shut things down it really shut down a lot of things and they're trying to figure out how do I, you know how do we actually exist in this new world when we're not tech people we're not, we don't work remotely we can barely email and how do we create programming for our for marginalized communities and that work has been very, very rewarding because things that we take for granted, like being able to talk in on a panel in a zoom call pay with the questions coming from the audience and maybe having some notes on a secondary screen. These are not given for a vast majority of the world, and helping people to sort of understand even small basics really brings them quite far during COVID-19 and it helps them connect not only to maybe their, their work and their marginalized communities and rethink how they, you know, do their work, but we're helping these people in their personal lives as well. You know, they, they take the skills that they're learning through, you know, through some of these funds and they're able to use it to connect with their friends and families and they're off time. And so I think that's, you know, I think it's really important that during COVID, those of us who can work remotely are used to it know how to, you know, have a chat or, you know, create community collaborate and documents, all of these kinds of things that we take for granted. The more we share that with people who don't have that experience, the easier it's going to be for the world to shift into the new paradigm that we're moving very quickly towards. Thank you so much for everything that you all do. This is really inspiring. I know we're at time. So I have, there's one other question in the chat from Andrea Duncan around what should recent graduates be doing in order to get a job in this economy that is also impactful. And so not when there's a scarcity of jobs, how do you go about doing that. So Laura and Mercedes, if you could just answer that in the chat window, just because we're on time. And thank you for that question, we will get to it. We're going to answer this in the chat window. But I just want to take a moment to thank the panelists for their time. I really enjoyed hosting this conversation. And I'm looking forward to continuing to stay in touch and seeing all of the amazing things that you all do. So thank you. Thank you for the audience for joining and thank you for that to sponsor this session. Thank you for impact engineered and SME and engineering for change for having us here and for Mariela and everybody else who put this panel together so thank you and I hope everybody has a good afternoon. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Dapo and Mariela.