 James Milan, welcome to Talk of the Town. In this episode, those of you who maybe have seen Talk of the Town recently might find that this is a familiar setting because we were back with our guest today, Jack Johnston, in his living room once again. Our last chat was about three weeks ago. We promised at that time that we would be returning in here we are. So we had a wonderful conversation with Jack, who is a 90 year old resident of Arlington, having been here for a very long time. Our last conversation was all about World War II in Arlington, its impact on the local community and Jack's own experience. It was wonderful. I suggest that you check it out if you haven't already. But we are back today as promised to talk about Jack's baseball career, another way to see also the history of our country and our culture and our society over these last number of decades. Jack being an active participant through much of that. So with that as a preface, we're back. Thanks so much for opening the door to us again. We really appreciate it. Looking forward to this conversation, which will be largely about baseball, but again touching on so many other things that people are going to be curious about. I had no doubt. So if I can ask you Jack, just start at the beginning. I will say that I know that you had a career that included both playing and then scouting and doing other kinds of functions in the front office for a couple of teams that people will have heard about and we'll talk about that. Okay. Start us in Arlington with you as a kid. Okay. I hope you don't mind my talking from notes because I'm going to give you my baseball path from beginning to today. Okay. Like all kids who are interested in baseball, I started out with with my chums from morning till night just playing pick up baseball. Most of it down at spot on field. It was no literally back then. And the first organized baseball in Arlington was the AYA Arlington Youth Association. It was a an effort from the Arlington Auxiliary Police and we had a schedule. We had uniforms and equipment and that was my first exposure to an organized team. Which as you say it was not there was no structure. So you started playing in the same way even I you know I'm a couple of decades behind you but I remember very unstructured play by being part of my childhood. Right. That is much less the case now as we know. And so you got into organized through this AYA which was sponsored by the Auxiliary Police. Arlington Auxiliary Police. Arlington Auxiliary Police. If you can and if you can answer this that's fine. Do you know what the Auxiliary Police Arlington Auxiliary Police were? What was that? No I don't. They were good adults. Okay. They were nice adults. That's fair enough. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt. That's alright. I remember the Auxiliary Police were present at the high school rec dances in place of regular police. Okay. So they maintained order. So they were like police adjacent people. I guess so. I don't even know if they existed. Yeah I think I expect not but maybe crossing guards were among those you know there are a number of people who kind of operate on the periphery of what the police do. Right. Right. Well my next exposure to organized baseball was not at the high school. I had to have an after-school job to help out at home financially. And I did participate in post-39 American Legion Baseball. And I was very fortunate to have a coach by the name of Henry Doyle Hank. We called him Hank Doyle. He was a former catcher at Boston College. And he was the one that really taught me the basics of pitching. So that was an important step. Can I ask you something Jack? I know that your own thought so clearly where the story is headed is that you were a professional baseball player. Yes. And so clearly you have talent that the rest of us don't have in order to be able to get to that to those heights. Where did your interest in baseball specifically and where did your athletic ability come from? If you can. My dad played professional soccer for Manchester City. What? My goodness. He was also a Mason and one of the members of the Lodge in Boston was Bobby Dore, second baseman for the Red Sox. So there was Hall of Fame second baseman for sure. Yes, Hall of Fame. And so there was a connection. But my dad was a professional soccer player. Okay, but you were you were born into this or were raised in this color, right? And so probably. Soccer wasn't big in this country when I was small. It is now of course. Back then it wasn't. But yeah, my dad used to play keep away with the soccer ball without the diving to catch it. Probably fun for all of you at least for a while. Yeah, but that's probably where the athletic talent came from. That's great. And did your dad have did he voice any opinions about you know the fact that he had been a football player at back? Not really. And okay. I didn't find out until he had passed away that he even played in Manchester. Is that right? Yeah, I've written to the Manchester club and I have a letter that I'll show you with the number of goals that he scored. That's fantastic. Yeah. I'll tell you that was that that's I knew that we would have little nuggets that we would uncover here. There's one of them. As I said, I played legion ball. In 1950, I tried out for the National Hurst team at Fenway Park and I was one of 75 New Englanders that were picked at Braves Field. And then the finals were at semi-finals were held at Fenway and I made that and then I played in Yankee Stadium in the finals. You've heard of the Hurst publications. Yes, of course. And so they were sponsoring this competition basically? Yes. Yeah, it was called the Hurst National Team. Do you have memories of playing at Yankee Stadium at that time? Barely. Barely. Okay, you know, stated a hotel but that was about it. Yeah. I received a four-year scholarship to Boston University and played four years of varsity baseball at BU. Was that unusual at that time to play all four years? Yes, usually played JV baseball and then the last three would be varsity. So Jack, I'm going to ask you, clearly you were talented enough to do that, to play for four years, which people don't usually. If anybody right now was on a trajectory to head towards the MLB, they would be being treated differently from when they were quite young because of their talent, because people would see that that that was something that was very distinctive and they would have a different course probably than others of their peers in terms, again, of the way that they were treated. Was that at all the case back then? Did you feel were you being treated as a special talent in any way? I think I was an exception. I won't say special. I was an exception. Today it's not unusual for a talented player to play four years of varsity baseball. I'll give you an example when I get to that. I had the winningest record at BU during those years. At the end of my sophomore year, I had the experience of playing for St. Georges de Beaux in Quebec, thoroughly French-speaking community, and I used to draw the curtains at the local movie theater to justify getting paid and remaining in the amateur, but the people up there were wonderful to us. They showed up with a paper sack or a plastic sack with a loaf of bread, wine, and cheese, and when one of our players hit a home run, they passed the hat and gave them a watch. They were wonderful people, wonderful people. I really enjoyed playing up there. That's a great story, and again, you just said it in passing, but at that time, you needed to maintain your amateur status, but you also needed to be able to… Which they do down the cape now, the Cape Cod League. The players come in and they have some kind of a nonsense job. Yes, a kind of show job in a sense, and in your case, it was drawing the curtains at the local movie theater. I started the very first baseball game at Nickerson Field, which is Beaux. Back then, it was Beaux Field. They had just purchased it from the Boston Braves. The Braves had moved out to Milwaukee, and so Beaux bought that. They renamed it Nickerson Field, and I got to pitch the first game against Boston College. We got as far as the seventh inning, and the lights went out, and there were no electricians to turn them back on, so the game was called, and people went home, but fortunately, we were hit at that point, and we were credited with the win, but that was a memorable night. Yeah, the place, total darkness. Right, and again, it was brand new. Brand new flashlights. Brand new facilities, so it's not like people were either way around. Well, it was not new. It was neglected when Beaux bought it. It was in tough shape. But you said that you pitched the first game, so it wasn't like people were used to the venue or anything at that point. Not a forgettable night when the lights go out. While I was at Beaux, I have to bring in Ted Williams. Ted Williams dislocated his shoulder in spring training, and they sent him back to Boston. Part of his rehab was to hit in Fenway Park, so I was one of the pitchers that was sent there as a right-hander, and from B.C. it was fellow by the name of Buckley. He was a left-hander, and we went over to Fenway in our uniform pants, and got to pitch to the great Ted Williams. He did it for two days, and he played pool with us. He said, throw the ball down the middle of the plate in here so that this is going to left, the next pitch this is going to center, the next pitch he, so he put on a display. Wow. And at the end of it all, he gave Buckley and myself 20 bucks a piece, which was a lot of money back then, and we did that two days. That is fantastic. That was Ted Williams. Not many folks can say that they pitched to Ted Williams. That was all I could say. My goodness. In late 1955, I signed with Baltimore and was assigned to the San Antonio of the Double-A Texas League, and that only lasted six weeks because I got called into the Air Force. I was in ROTC, Air Force ROTC at BU, and had to heed the call. And this was the 1950s, you said? This was 1955. In the end, I signed in 1955, reported in 1956. I should mention that recently, within the last month, Brooks Robinson died, Hall of Fame, third basement for Baltimore. He was our third basement. Signed out of Little Rock High School in Arkansas. Is that right? So he was the third basement on the San Antonio of Juliet that you played, so you played with him as well? Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Well, not for long. He was not forgettable. Right, on that. So, yeah, lasted six weeks, and then as I said, I was called up to active duty in the Air Force. I spent almost four years in the Air Force. And then when I got out, I signed a contract with the Spokane Indians of the Pacific Coast League, the Dodger Triple-A affiliate. And my second year there, I suffered a career-ending arm injury, and they did not have the Tommy John surgery that is almost routine today. Kids in high school get it when they hurt their arms. So that wasn't available in it for all practical purposes. That was the end of my pitching career. Can I ask you, Jack, sorry to interrupt again. You were just starting on a professional baseball career, which I assume was something that you'd been aiming at and something you were excited about when you were called up, as you said. Can you tell us a little bit more about how that was for you? Was it as simple as, oh, well, I wanted to do this, but I need to do that. And so therefore, that's that? Or was it? I tried to try it, but it didn't win. Okay. So you tried to say, hey, I'm busy here. No, it didn't make any difference. That's the way they treated everybody. It wasn't that I was being singled out. Right. They had treated Ted Williams like that years before. Well, he served two years. So he lost two years off of a tremendous career. Okay, so thank you for that. One of the benefits that came out of my time and spoke in was I developed a very good relationship with Bobby Brigham, who was my manager. We got along very well, and I think he respected me. Anyway, when he left the Dodger organization, he became the first director of player personnel was the Houston Ball Club, the brand new Houston Ball Club, Houston Colt 45s, not the Astros. Okay. The Colt 45s. Right. So I got a telephone call one day from Bobby saying, I'm looking for a scout in the New England area. You're interested. And I said, I don't know anything about scouting. He said, I'll pair you up with an experienced scout, which he did. And then you're on your own. I had a humongous territory that I didn't like, but that's the way they decided things. And when Bobby left the organization, for whatever reason, I left as well. And as luck would have it, the Mets scout in this area became very ill. And so I applied for and got the job with the Mets, which I had for 30 plus years. And I have to say, I'm sure you'll talk about it, but those 30 plus years include both World Series titles for the Mets. And got World Series friends, which I passed on to each daughter. The young one has the 69, which is her birth year. And the old one has the 86. So the 86, some folks around here might remember that one too. We know, I don't know how much we'll be able to talk about that, but I'd like to. We'll see. I was being treated for cancer at Mount Auburn Hospital, and part of the process was to have things implanted. And the physician that came in to do that, the first thing he asked for was, had I signed a consent form, which I hadn't, they hadn't presented to me. So I was under the some sedation. And he just handed me the clipboard and said, sign it. So I did. And he noticed the 86 World Series ring on my finger. And he said, that's an interesting ring. What college is it? And I said, it's not a college ring. It's a World Series ring. And he said, what World Series? And I said, well, 1986, he said, 1986, that's the Mets. And I said, yes, it is. And then he cursed me and said, you've got a nerve coming into this hospital. I know he was joking. That right, of course. And how many years later was that? That was probably many, many years after the debacle of 1986. But nobody around here is going to forget that. Oh, I know they won't. I don't bring it up. I want to tell you my biggest disappointment in scouting. And it was the failure to sign First Basement Carlos Pena. Carlos came to the United States when he was 12 from the Dominican Republic with his parents and siblings. And they settled in Havel. I ran a tryout camp for the Mets in Havel. And there were 100 some kids that showed up from around, mostly from the Merrimack Valley, but some as far away as Maine and some from New Hampshire, but it was a large group. And in order to get through that many players, you have to cull out a number of them. And the best way to do that is to time them over a running stretch. And if they don't qualify in terms of the time, then you've successfully culled some. Right. So anyway, they fill out their player information cards. And then as each one of them runs, we record the time. Carlos ran. I looked at his card and it was what I did look at it was awful. His father came over to me towards the end of the day and said, can Carlos hit? And I looked at his card and I said, you know, he can't run. I looked over at the bench and Carlos was crying. And he's just at the end of his sophomore year. And I don't want to send any kid away from a tryout camp crying. So I said, when everybody else is done, we'll keep a couple of pictures and he can hit. That was fine. Well, he got up to the plate and the Haverill Stadium, baseball stadium runs into the football field. He started hitting things up into the football grandstands. Now we talk. Right. And I said, I told him, I said, you're never going to play in the big leagues if you can't run baseball, you have to be able to run. And he never forgot that. And the next thing I, because I checked on him, I found out that he had gotten involved with a former Patriots defensive back who lived in, now lived in April. And I forgotten his name, but he taught Carlos about balance. He strengthened his legs by having him jump from the table to the ground and back and forth. And he's a different kid by the time he was a senior. He went to Wright State, got homesick, came back here. And then Neil McPhee, the Northeastern coach, knew of him. And Neil gave him scholarship to Northeastern, and he majored in electrical engineering, as I recall, and by the time he was a senior at Northeastern, he was so polished. Anyway, we had a tryout, and our general manager at the time didn't rank him high enough. And we lost him to the Texas Rangers. They picked ahead of us, and they took him. He was number 10 in the first round. He had a 14-year career in the big leagues. He was an All-Star in 2009, and he lived in both leagues and home runs in 2009. So he's now, he does broadcasting for MLB. And he just was a terrific person. I really grew to like the family. So I was so disappointed that we did not get him. That was my biggest scouting disappointment. There were others, but that was a major one. Well, it's a good illustration of a lot of both what, you know, the work that you were doing, but also just how contingent everything is. Well, I followed him after that tryout camp. I followed him right through high school. And all I could see was an upward curve. He was really a heck of a player. And to lose him because he wasn't ranked high enough by the upper-version line. Right. And as you said in 2009, if the guy hits that many home runs, he can take as much time as he wants going around the bases. He doesn't have to be able to run fast. The very best thing that happened to me during my scouting career was my marriage. We met at Boston University, where I was studying for my MSW. She was on the staff at the School of Social Work. And she was interested in baseball. And the joke in our family was that, well, first of all, her dad was the director of the Yale Divinity School Library. And he was an ordained minister. So the joke was the only cardinals they knew about were in Rome. So that was that. Anyway, I introduced her to professional baseball. And the ultimate test was I took her to four games on a Saturday. We didn't stay for the full game, just thought the lineups and then moved on to the line, through the lineup, moved on to an expert. I took her to four games. And I figured if she could endure that, we could be together. Yes, that was a trial by fire for sure. She was interested in baseball all the years that we were together. We met people that she ordinarily would never have met. And we had two wonderful daughters that still have them. And she passed away in April of this year. But she really loved baseball. She got to go to a real series. Absolutely. I'm sure she loved you first, obviously. But the fact that she would love something that you are making your life in for a while, that was very serendipitous. She was on the verge of writing a cookbook, it was called Home Plate. And she didn't get to finish that. I hope my daughters do. She was. I hope so too. You know, we are getting near, as always, the end of our conversation. I want to make sure that we don't forget anything that you want to include. But I did also have another question for you. So let me ask you to, first of all, to, like, is there something that you want to make sure that gets mentioned that we haven't yet? Yeah. I think, for me, baseball has been all about relationships. I mentioned getting to know people, especially Peter Abraham. He's a veteran sports writer. Right, the Globes sports writer. Yeah. And we talk about sports issues. I maintain contact with people who are actively scouting. I hear from them all the time. I hear from a few coaches. I've had a coach bring in a player to talk about pitching and things of that nature. And I just got a lovely card from Tom Freeman. Tom Freeman grew up in Arlington, right-handed pitcher. He went to Bates College. He was an all-American at Bates College. We tried to sign him. Yankees got him. And I hadn't seen him for 60 years. Six zero? Six zero years, right? Right. He saw that Marsha had passed away. And I got this lovely card for him. He telephoned me. Now we're going to get together. He's coming up here in November. He lives down in Fort Myers. And he's coming up here sometime in November. I think he has a brother that lives somewhere up here. But anyway, his card just wants to get back together again. You know, in our last conversation, we talked about the fact that you and your family had a relationship with sailors that you met during World War II that endured for decades. So has this one, that says something about you? 60 years. Yeah. That's quite a testament to who you are as well, I have to say. I know you're a modest guy. You don't want to be saying anything. But that's really, that does say a lot about people's regard for you, your ability to sustain those relationships over a long period of time. Well, they're good people. I'm talking to one as well. Thank you. That's all I have. So my last question is, it may not, it may be too hard to answer, but you're an Arlington native, essentially a native. And so therefore, a Boston native, you worked for the New York Mets for many years, including that memorable World Series we've already alluded to. How was that for you? Were you ever, was that, did that, did that create any tension for you? We had great relationships with people at Fenway Park. One woman in particular over there called quite a, I think two or three weeks after the funeral, she said, I didn't know what to say. She was that close to Marcia, my wife. And she said, that's why I didn't need calling you. And she said, I didn't know what to say. And they used to talk about knitting and recipes and stuff like that. So you were not subject to, so you told that anecdote about the doctor who was like, how dare you come in here with your World Series. You were not subject to actually any actual hostility from Bostonians or anything like that at any point. Just the opposite, just the opposite. Rich Beaton, who was the, I guess his title is Vice President of Tickets and Promotions for the Red Sox. He once said to, he said to Marcia, she said, you people never ask for anything. He said, anytime you want tickets, it doesn't matter whether it's regular games of the World Series, just call me. Again, so there was no animosity of it. Great, great. Well, you know, Boston fans, as we all know, don't have the best reputation for how they treat folks from other cities and other teams, et cetera. So Jack is here to tell us all that that's not necessarily the case on a person-to-person basis. Things went really well for you, even though you had your Metz banner out there, I'm sure, right in front of you. All right, well, Jack, I'm going to come up with some excuse to come back and talk to you again. I'm just, I'm sure of it. I have been speaking with Jack Johnston. He is, as we have said before, a very long time resident of Arlington with so many stories to share. We have plumbed some of the depth of that, and we really appreciate Jack's time for it. But as I said, we're going to figure out other reasons to come back and talk to him. So thank you so much again for welcoming us to your house. You're welcome. I enjoyed it. We really appreciate it. This is Talk of the Town. I'm James Milan. We'll see you next time.