 Hello, everybody. I hope everybody can see and hear me. If not, please let me know through the chat. Hi, my name is Anne. I'm the communications officer for Nemo, the network of European Museum Organizations. Okay, apparently you can hear me, so that's a good sign. This is our seventh webinar overall, and the first one in, I call it the Nemo year, which means we were elected in the Creative Viewer program, and that means we are co-founded for the next four years, and the first year just started on April 1st. So this is the first webinar of this year. There will be three more, and we have a lot of other different activities, which we are happy to inform you about. So consider checking our website or signing up for a newsletter if you haven't already. But this webinar is not about Nemo. It's about the great revolution of European museums, and Massimo Negri, he will be the facilitator of today's webinar. We're very fortunate to have him here, and if you don't know him, which I assume you do, he's among other things the director of the European Museum Academy, and also the author of the book, The Great Revolution of European Museums, which is the basis kind of of the webinar that he will give today. I think it's very important to look at the past of museums to be able to discuss the future, and so this is a good beginning to start a discussion on the matter. Referring to discussing this matter, if you do have questions or if you just want to make comments, the chat is the place to go for this. I can already see what you're writing and Massimo can do the same, so he will reply to your questions, but at the end of the webinar so we don't get confused if too many questions arise throughout. Other than that, two more organizational things. If you're interested in the presentation, it will be uploaded on Nemo's website after the webinar. I will also post a link in the chat at the end of the webinar, and if you want to review this webinar, then you can also do that within the next few weeks. Thank you all for joining this webinar, and I'll just give the virtual stage to Massimo, who will give us an insight into the experience he has collected over the past 40 years by being a juror for several of our museum prizes, among them the European Museum of the Year award. So Massimo, the stage is yours. Thank you all for joining. Good afternoon. Thank you for attending this event. Many thanks to Nemo and the other, and for ten years you are also the director of these awards. And later, again, I'm still at the Noreo Micaleti award, which is the only one about industrial and technical museums. In other terms, it's based on a practical observation, if not day by day, but almost over the years, about transformation, changes, evolution in the museum world, because all these schemes were devoted, and still are, to new museums. This means that personally, I think, in all the assessment process doesn't mean necessarily to have visited all of them, but the assessment process would visit many of them, or about, so far, 2,000 museums of any kind in Europe. I'm not telling this for narcissistic attitude, but simply because the problem with the awards is that the material you gather, and especially the experience that you do, in some sense is very volatile, is temporary. Say every year you have a new edition of the award, which means that you start from zero in some sense, whatever you have been collecting, accumulating of notes and materials, remains on the background. But there are rare occasions, and there is not a framework to make it accessible to other people, to other colleagues, but in general to other people. For instance, Samia published every year brochure about the candidates distributed it, but don't forget that in 83, for instance, when I started, Internet not only didn't exist, but nobody could have imagined, even imagined about the Internet, who were a pre-pre-pre-indigital era. So it came a moment when I felt, the other aspect is my work at the university, I felt under in some sense the stimulus, the pressure of teaching, especially in the course of museology, that now from this year is also available in two formats, one in presence and the other one online. So if you are interested in what I'm going to say, and you want to go in depth, and you could have a look at the website of the University in Iran and to know how this online course is structured. And I felt the necessity of a book where it was in some sense summarized, distilled the main things that have been accumulating during the years and made them available to the public. This is the title in some sense inevitable, why? Because as these awards were focused on new museums and as well as on museums with radically changed, reshaped, the parorama is that the museum world in Europe is not at all a dusty and slow-moving, hesitant or lazy world as in the public imagination frequently happens to be imagined or represented, but on the contrary it's a very dynamic sector. Just to give you an idea, in 1970, which is of course a long time ago, but it's not set years ago, it was estimated that there were about 18,000 museums all over the world. Only in Europe we estimate now 40,000, and the Washington Post wrote that all in the United States, all the Starbucks and McDonald's put together a lot less than the United States museums. What it means? It means that the recent decades have been characterized by a growing endless, quantitative growth of museums in any sector. As it happens with this kind of phenomenon, when you are quantitative growth, this goes together with the qualitative changes, not necessarily growth, but changes. I will put here just with the deliberate intention to create, which is one of the main targets of this talk, to create a certain chaos in your mind in the sense that when you have to do with the magnetic material, the magnetic phenomenon, it's better to do it, but only all the worries about to define categories and first start from the observation. It meant that this process had brought to the birth of new concepts, for instance, museums that had defined ideas, the Museum of Earth, or the Swarovski Crystal at the company museum of the famous Swarovski, focused on the spiritual, symbolic, imaginative aspect of crystals created by a company with company purposes. Or, as in the first two cases, a beautiful museum north in Manchester, in the Flandersfield Museum, a radical revision of a traditional, typical military museum re-edited with new visions. This process of innovation has also included, as I said, existing museums, which has radically changed their shape, probably the most typical example of a museum of tradition, which has radically changed some aspects of the British Guards in B&A. Or creating, opening the door on areas like the backstage of the museum, for instance, it's becoming relatively, say, popular, the fact of opening storages, but it remains turning part what happened about 15, 20 years ago in Netherland, in Coise, I don't know, still there is that gallery, where a gallery of about 1,000 square meters was devoted to how, what is the work of the museum, behind the scenes, what happened, what happens, because it is strange, but in general the public knows or has an idea of what happens behind the scenes, in the library, in the school, in the theater, in any cultural institution, but what happens in a museum is very mysterious, and even, for instance, how it is built up, the exhibition is created, the experience of which people do while visiting the museum, the museum environment, this remains rather obscure to most of the people, even to people who like very much, so it feels more familiar than the general part. It has meant, among the other things, for instance, unusual places to be converted into a museum, one of the most unexpected being probably the swimming pool, the larger, I don't know, the larger part of the water pool, La Piscine in Roubaix, and this is also brought to a redefinition, if you want, of both sides, the audience, for instance, the theme of comforts, these go for comforts of visitors, the behavior, and also on the side of the curators, and we will come back to that later. This global change has affected any aspect of the structure of the museum, as well as the life of the museum, from the hardware, say, conservation techniques, materials, just one digital printing has allowed the things that only five or seven years ago are possible, for instance, to print on any kind of materials, stills and so on, any kind, almost of sizes, and high definition of quality, usual quality, but also in terms of contents and, which is not a minor aspect, organization, for instance, the redefinition of human resources, the crucial point of management and fine-fine answer, which has brought in various cases to the emerging of new models, not to say about architecture. Idea collected put together some pictures which are symbolic of these kinds of changes. Iron Bridge was the first winner of the European and Brazilian World in 1917. I was not the judge at that time, but why? Let's say, not only because of the theme, but for a simple reason, which was, in some sense, industrial heritage, which in the hierarchy of cultural values were placed in Italy. The first book about industrial ecology was published one year later in England as a very short tradition, but also for a practical aspect, how to create a museum where the main piece of the collection is a bridge, when the bridge is still in use. The problem in itself was not totally new, because, for instance, Canneson was already an example, but that was the category of open-air museum, in this mantola architecture, you rebuild another place, and it's no longer in use in city. But here the point was a museological and museographical complicated problem, and it has established, if not a model, because it was rather controversial at the beginning, but it has represented very much a turning point in the physical dimension of the idea itself of the museum. And the opposite, in some sense, not the opposite, because of the size of the linguistic of the museum, and we'll come back again to the use of this linguistic. I put a picture of a museum on the Museum of the Mind, and more specifically the room that wanted to throw up. First of all, the Museum of the Mind, so it's a theme of the museum, and the theme is not in itself generated by the fact that the museum has a collection, but is a deliberate, thematic, consular choice. Then the collection is at the surface of a thesis, or the communication of a theme. But it is also interesting, I put this picture here because I want you to think a little bit about the way this is presented, a very important subject is presented, Freud. You speak of mind, and he is thinking, we come to your mind, the name Freud. And here what you have, you have an object which is symbolic, it's not the original one, it's not in the house of a living lamp, because it's also in the Freudian Museum of the Mind, it's not the original one. He is a coach, a sofa, the theme of the sofa, of the technique used by Freud. And then a picture of him, and some visual representation of possible visual translation of the brain movements. That's it. Say it's a very conceptual presentation, which we can assume as a significant example of one of the things that has happened in terms of exhibition planning, of exhibition creating, of the very conceptual, or very spectacular, like the other museum, which I can see the turning point, the Imperial World Museum of the North, in Manchester, designed by Liebeskind, which is an outpost of the Imperial World Museum in London. But its name is very meaningful because of the museum, because in the name is War Shapes, Lives. So it's totally different from the traditional museum of military history, based on battles and so on, the Italian and so on, based on an idea again, how war affects the life of the works who are not in the battle, in general, of society. And it's a very spectacular museum, this seal or so they are called, this was about 10 to 12 meters high. And these two pictures give you an idea that is only one object, this arena, for instance, only one of nothing special, not particularly monumental, how is different the perception according to the changes in the visual context, which is very involving and very impressive. As a footnote, these are not digital pictures. These are just projected by a moment of fashion at the beginning when it was created, color and colors and projectors, very complicated to be done at that time, a masterpiece in itself. And again, representative of different conceptual approach and also in terms of presentation, very important. Sometimes these innovations have generated a new species of museum. The house that existed in Bonn was a museum about the history of the reunification, the post-war history of the federal and Italian, federal, German and the public before the reunification. And it has generated other house of histories in Leipzig, in Germany, but also as a model in other countries. What was the main aspect of this? To deal with history, which is closer to the present. In other terms, in general in museums, in the history of the generation, where the protagonists are that, are no longer alive, are no longer directly witnesses, are no longer directly involved in the audience. Here, of course you won't compare the history in the most contemporary sense of the war. Which means that most of the things that have been said are still in the scope of the experience. So, the audience in some sense is questionable in the sense that there is a more direct relationship and in some sense a more risky relationship between the museum, the exhibition and the audience. This theme of controversial, if you want, heritage and the controversial things is very, made very clear as an example by the House of Thames in Budapest, which was opened immediately some years after the end of the communist regime. What we have here has again different keys of interpretation of this picture. Because from one side, from the strictly point of view of the exhibition, again, adopted techniques more of an installation of an illustrative, pedagogical on strictly, say, explanatory presentation. It's a very emotional presentation. And the House of Thames, the name itself, but it's not the name which was invented to define the museum. It was the name used by the people in Hungary, this was the beginning before of the political police of the Nazi party, the local Nazi party during the Nazi occupation, and then it was turned into a quarter of the political police of the communist regime. So, unfortunately, a very gloomy continuity. The fact in itself to create such a museum as generated debate which still is not finished and generates very radical reactions and introduces us to these two points. On one side, the way of communicating and the other side, the thesis itself is a political museum where there is a thesis of the continuity in some sense of the general framework of these two regimes and offers us a case for something that we will take into account later again about the political meaning of the museum, the contemporary museum. Moving to totally different subject in Barcelona, Cosmo Caixa is a big museum which is a mix of a museum of international history, a museum at the same center, a big thing located partially in a formal beautiful building, industrial building, a room or catalogue, a textile building with modern addition. And it includes its own museum in Europe, including a portion of the rainforest, living rainforest where it rains every 10 minutes and it's not large, but it's not that small. And it offers to visitors the direct experience of living in Barcelona. It's not a museum of international history, it's not a silent center, it is unique. It is not a minor experimental thing. It is a source of inspiration for people who want to create something living with the problems of the past and the future of our planet. There are some places like this one, for instance, which is the our modern dietic which is a church created by Dutch and Amsterdam Dutch merchant when the protestant took over. This museum has been recently renovated. It's an interesting case because it's a typical museum which is intentionally meant to preserve and see to a special place. But now that it has been renovated and the coffee and so on has lost something, maybe something of its magic. Although, from the technical point of view, it is more accessible and open to the public. This means that not always innovation is my opinion, of course, but innovation is always too far. It's always a risky business in some sense. The swimming pool I mentioned before and this is a watch at an observation tower on the Slovenian border with Italy which defines itself as the smallest museum in the world. Tom Teet's experiment is a museum in Sweden where it is a science centre but includes a kindle garden where children live. And now, if not wrong, the first two classes of the elementary school in other terms is the symbol of the most integration possible in one of the possible integrations between the educational side and the exhibition environment. But this kind of revolution has meant new kinds of heritage. We imagine some of these new kinds of heritage and, of course, the museum building the heyday of museum buildings, the golden era of museum architecture, one could say. Renzo Piano defined the museum as a place where one should use one's head which, of course, is a nice definition, imaginative definition. But the point that I submit to your attention not adding an answer for the moment is that if we go back to the first part of the 19th century it appears something similar, chic and so on, the British Museum and so on. They became, for 100 years, a model. So, on these mushrooming of architectural textures in the museum is destined to become a model or not? It's a question that we will see but it should be interesting to come to some sooner or later there's the moment that perhaps we can have some conclusions. The theatrical expert of the museum this is, again, a very interesting example. First of all, this is because of the subject. It's the Boudinrock house in Lubeck and it represents one of the crucial scenes of the novel. The first point, the Boudinrock never exists. A museum by definition leads with a real phenomenon or a real event or a real category of objects that say collection. Here, nothing is real for the simple reason that the subject itself never exists. So, it's not a unique case but it's very representative of the fact that you go back and you want to see the Boudinrock. So, the museum is created about a story because there is a part devoted to the two brothers' mother but the entity is very theatrical. It's theatrical because the scene conceives the imagination of the writer is theatrical and also because the representation is theatrical. It's also theatrical the way you use for instance in the Bach house the house where Bach lived most of his life in Germany. This way of proposed of listening in these eggs listening to music in itself is if you want to trick, to engage people it's different to listen to music sitting on a sofa, it's different it's a standing or sitting in a chair it's mostly different in this sort of capsule which gives you a sense of instability but at the same time a sense of intimacy. It is again a part of this kind of theatrical games which becomes rich in its climax if you want and you experience digital installation, multimedia installation this is the museum devoted to an Italian political figure, the Gasperi one father of the European union community there is nothing left of this just the house, nothing, no objects this is the room where he was born and it's a full invention that is the multimedia installation one could say, well it's a total manipulation it's totally, nothing is real here but I want to quote here one of our the founders, indirect founders of the European Museum of Academy because it was the home of the European Museum the director had the privilege to work with him for many, many years, Karen Hudson who said the Tiger Museum is not the Tiger it is the Tiger Museum which is profoundly true that we from time to time tend to forget the museum is always the result of the work of manipulation and so it's a waste of time saying it's like when you write an article or a newspaper for any form of communication that it always allows an aspect of interpretation to deliver it or not so it's useless to talk about the misleading aspect of the use of digital techniques because it seems an evolution of what the museum has always been doing so this curiosity in 1905 the director of different art the director of the Boston Art Museum wrote this long article that you can find on the internet and in the struggle he suggested about the so-called Museum of Art which is documented very much by teachers which are still very instructive but of course also with different museums the evolution of the museum environment you have the image of new forms of fusion especially from the intellectual point of view also because the visitors it's not only a matter of visitors but it's a matter of users users not only because the users, physical users people who don't know the museum to do something not only to visit, perhaps not even visiting but profiting on the facilities of the museum but of course the great new theme of the online users there are, but the museum is not of course an isolated institution it is a fully merged social context and there are three sociological evolution that I wanted to submit to your attention because maybe you are especially impacting on museums users, not only museum visitors but also influences very much the first is the Museum of Cities for the first time in human history most of the more than 50% of the people living on our planet lives in cities it means in places that by definition are the places of exchange and the second is the fact that we have in 10 years we had not in 2050, only in the last 10 years we had an enormous global population who is older than 100 years no longer something special which means that going back means 80s or 90s in other terms for the first time in history about 4 generations living on the same altogether living and acting on the same stage including the museum stage not because our museums are so crowded with people older than 100 years but say many who are from 70s and the third is on the opposite the millennium of the millennias and the millennias are really very difficult to define but these three aspects give you an idea of the segmentation of the audience at the same time the segmentation of the same time the fact that all these segments are influencing each other and especially asking to museums for something it's a galaxy in movement new kinds of heritage this is very curious it's a cheese, a well-shedded cheese the mine is only in a place which is very proud of this mining tradition although most of the mines are closed could use as a marketing for cheese the dirty face of the miner but just to remove the museum is in the middle the definition of the meanings of the heritage for instance, the heritage market in this case the industrial world or the digital the equivalent museum of art, the institute of art with its great wall at the beginning touch screen or the more traditional presentation of for instance the different languages like for deaf people I mean in all these redefinitions of roles and techniques and themes and architecture is there space again for a myth? Yes or no? Yes, I think yes and one source of inspiration for me is the thinking of Jerome Seymour Bruehler who also belonged to this generation of seminary people and died last year, almost 101 and here's a theory of the narrative construction of reality could be very useful in terms of imagining, exhibition and planning in other terms to banalize if you want the thoughts of Bruehler is a movement from the logic-scientific mode which is based on a sound value with a tight analysis reason which is in some sense the first way to learn and more than to learn to approach the reality which is very true in our own experience that we will find in a few seconds in the story telling us the way the strategy is no longer sub-argument but in the story the inspiration and the mechanism where you have an association, a static intuition interactive, I'm not saying that one is a radical alternative the two things can coexist but what Bruehler has said is this part and this part in my view is very useful in marketing there is a bit old-fashioned now but there was a term, there is still a term jargon of marketing which is also useful for us to define the method and it is the acronym AIDA what do you have here? AIDA stays for when you have to sell something you first you raise attention if you don't raise the attention there is no chance consolidate the attention to interest, promote the evolution of the interest into desire which in the end comes to an action the action is buying in marketing here you can put whatever you want learning what to do is something the structure, the consequential sequence of these steps if you think about it it's very appropriate also what happens in music where the main starting point is always curiosity the vector curiosity and that perhaps you learn that and then the desire to participate to do something just to go beyond the simple contemplation in terms of museum and this means what I have defined the long march from collection interpretation to imagination collection interpretation was a term that interpretation itself we can associate with the creation of the interpretation department in the science museum when E.Cossos who was the founder of Iron Bridge incidentally became the director there is a book very interesting behind the scene by Cheryl McDonald behind the scene of the science museum where she explains what happened when this department of interpretation was established this was in the early 90s from the early 90s we can say there is sort of evolution in terms of the vision of the use of the collection and not only the collection, all the valuable resources from interpretation to communication to experience the famous lecture by Daniel Serotha the director of Tate the experience of interpretation focused on art, school suggestions in general we can find the use of some of the internet as a lecture to imagination I don't know if imagination could be with several questions but I hope that this gives you an idea of the kind of evolution in the process I have put here trying to simplify for the ones who are interested and fortunate to be getting into Italian but then I give you some suggestions for readings I wrote a book about the news ago an art book in museology where nothing is short where I tried to put to conceptualize and later I found that of course nobody is original and I'm very happy that I found somebody else who shared very much my impressions and my opinions in this field and first the conceptual side, the concept the basic idea then the narrative which makes intelligible this concept then what happens in the museum so the distribution of space according to the different types of activities that the museum intends under the physical possibilities the financial possibilities so the machine if you want the physical machine if this physical space you put what you have elaborated here and this becomes the mathematical distribution and then you put the correction at the service of this and not vice versa till 20, 30 years, 40 years ago the first part was here the rest came, it was exactly the opposite but this is the result of this, one of the results of this revolution it is basically based on this on the growing importance of storytelling storytelling has become a marketing especially the internet, the explosion of the media the screen media has determined the explosion of storytelling in our life is not limited to museums it's in all our life when we start our daily life it has been estimated by some research sent in the United States that we meet around 70 screens every day I don't know if it is true or not but it is true that each of us has a dialogue or a passive experience with every day with dozens and dozens of screens each of them telling a story once said this it remains true that our market is the museum environment the museum environment environment larger is a growing can be defined as a growing complex communicative sequence of spaces with a very multifaceted language it's complicated life has become complicated as it is in general how can we cope with this challenge it's not only a matter of resilience of the unashamed with all the respect of the architectural design it's finished the era of the dictatorship of the architects which of course there is very much still especially not in the museum but it's an interdiscipline teamwork it's banal again to be said but when you put this in practice it has strong consequences keeping in mind one point that Isaac Singer very well put on in the 70s when accepting the Nobel Prize the narrator of our age as an early age must be an entertainer with a spirit and just not a bitch there is no heaven for more readers and no excuse for tedious reaching if we put instead of readers there is no heaven for more visitors or more users and no excuse for tedious museums it is very true in this sense it's very strange that still museums are underestimating literary sources there are a lot of museum meetings with literary offered an example a wooden rock with literary authors but I give you an example you deal with a complex subject like if you go to lead three books you ask my life and test it and the writer is by the daughter of the Stalin's Bazar you are reminded of material life to involve your to communicate and to involve your visitor much more than quoting statistics, historic facts which of course are useful and essential and important but be sure that literary sources in a context where the main focus right or wrong is the narrative side is strange that museums are very much popular the narrative side and still do solid news of the narrative material which is in literature perhaps Wolfgang Roberte was quite pioneering when wrote a museum should never be finished but boundless and they were emotional this is a poster from an American museum taken under the museum I don't remember what it is in the United States it's still very modern this definition you will find them, not really in them but because they will give you the presentation some readings if you are interested in this some of them you can find also for free somewhere as a pdf some you can find on Amazon almost for very little money some on the contrary expensive because I consider them but to certainly socialist museums influence by character especially socialist museums is still very informative the total museum by Jorge Rakesberg the creator of Cosmo Caixa mastering a museum plan is about the planning of the naturalists in the Netherlands and the autograph is much better much better than me in visualizing diagrams and chart flows of how the planning process can be visualized it works very well and the LEM report is available on the NIMO website if you are interested I put also two other quality museums a book about quality evaluation I think it is on Google Books it was on Google Books so for free from the icon museum back is it basics too for the ones who are approaching the theme from the beginning it is a bad sort of bad book and you have put two books relatively distant 30 years or 35 years to have a look the other side of the ocean one is a very entertaining book Thomas Oden who was the director before let's it's a very nice book about how a big American museum works behind the scenes not technical but socially the involvement of the board and so on the person who created the other things the cloisters the museum still in objects this is recent and the title in itself puts a question which is destined to be for many for the years coming for the next years still very very hot thank you very much questions I'm reading the question so leave me the time to read the question yes the question about the use of technology and sustainability is very appropriate it's very appropriate because I think we all experience this in our daily life we don't need to talk about museum specifically in museums I think that and we have experienced very frequently the sense of disappointment that you have for instance one is typical if you're having a museum 20 screens and one is silent because something is at them when you come back the only one that is silent is one of the others it's like when in the restaurant you have a full three course dinner two courses are okay but the third one is a disaster because you don't remember the two ones which are good and this technology is evolving so rapidly that this risk is serious but it is balanced by two other elements one is the fact that luckily the cost of technology in general of devices in the last 30 years is always going down so in other terms video projector, professional video projector ten years ago who costed three times and I don't know five times and so in one sense you can a little bit balance the aspect in terms of updating but again there is a a concept to admit in my experience there are for instance typically is what we have seen from Manchester the Museum that is there are some technological aspects which can become classic in some sense and even if there are a little bit old-fashioned technology they still work nothing they work because the project the projector is working because the communicative system and experience works both the community experience and the idea so once I say that it is true that sustainability is a critical point on the other side this could be our North Pole star when planning in terms to find the good compromise between fresh technology together with possible long-term technology which could interpret what we want to tell to say and to offer if you are intellectual or spiritual to the user another question the narrative might appear to first an instructive model well no perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly I don't think exactly an instructive model of the exhibition well the scope of participation of the user is it's one of the dilemmas nowadays not only for museums of course there is scope for the participation of the users but under certain limits and it is that it can be in the inspiration of the exhibition and it can be of course thanks to the mobile devices on the spot when the things actually experience happens but museums this is my opinion cannot give up to their own social responsibility you are museum is a cultural institution it has a responsibility it says what it wants to say at least in the democracy of blinds then museum to tell one story or the other and users are willing to participate but users are also very much waiting to be involved in a process in a fruitful process it's like on the internet the problem is no longer the quantity of information the problem is how to orientate yourself in the jungle of information and oh congratulations Lubeck I would be very curious I visited many and several and it is still the same it was very fascinating I hope it is still and so I for my answer about the narrative and the instructive is the narrative for what reason just to tell a story mix of entertainment education let's put it in an emphatic way the growth of the personality when it's finished you say okay I feel better I'm better in the sense not that I'm happy or less happy not exaggerate but it was not a waste of time it was useful under many points of view I think that the question about should the museum invest time and stuff in social media unfortunately for the moment is still a problem because as you have said is an alternative can I go back to a slide because I forgot to show a slide which has to do with something that is suggested I think that is inevitable but it's for the moment for most of the museums the small and medium sized museum it is true the social media are a very time-consuming activities and you must have the skills this is a question about the narrative museums are oriented towards storytelling but not necessarily a curator has the skills for storytelling I myself mean you can love storytelling but if you tell a story to a son your grandson and this word it means that you're not a good storyteller or perhaps there is no future simply because the two things they think has changed so radically that one generation is no longer able to tell a fascinating story to the following one about the social media and about all the other aspects for instance the app of your guides and so on why I put these slides around the museum experience now but not always in a direct connection with the collection or with the concept there are all the crucial problems of our society are in some sense taken in so you have in big museums small museums involving to feel the migrants better the problem of peace the disaster of the environment for the elderly people to improve the quality of life there is a certain I define it as the scientific syndrome of contemporary museum and this is very much influenced by this idea of the museum as a American organization I don't have anything against that but sometimes I ask myself what is the museum one of these museums or a museum even the British Museum some aspects living in that is it necessary a museum or this simply something that what is the you can find the same or activate the same process in a school in a library, in a car in a social center or in a street or in a bar whatever in several environments what is the direct what makes so special the museum not in general but to be so specially appropriated for this this is the point not so special so special we know so efficient and special and efficient yes say fruitful and I don't think that there is a sort I think that there is a sort of overestimation of the role of the museum do not present we cannot say we want we can contribute to them if you feel being guilty because not enough the migrants is not only it is your personal feelings but do not museums have their own needs and this but and here I go to some of the questions it is true that all the great social issues find the great help in the use of the social in the general communication of the social media of the all the digital devices because it's based on words on images more than on objects and physical space and could integrate very well the plans the plan of the museum of the museum activity in general and of course this it's a transition period we can honestly if we are honest no one knows where we are going so there we'll see perhaps there will be a reaction back to the like the American fellow world always thinking of these things second perhaps with the pendulum going back to the objects focusing on the objects living apart or the rest I don't know as the question this is very much to do with the question do you think that the panels are still useful well yes and no because for to do audio guides are bad in the sense that strictly speaking because although there are still very popular and they're popular not for the technological reason but for the behavioral reason that people like very much hanging and having this sense of solid something and not again engaging themselves with this kind of device but this is destined to finish and it's already finished but the panels I don't know good old panels means another way of communication which is reading what it remains in both cases body of guides apps and panel unfortunately is one thing is one of the most difficult job in the world to write texts both for older guys or others and it's a skill that you learn for after a long exercise sometimes you never learn because it's a matter of inclination people who are able to do that and then so the core of the question is not simply the media the mediums panels or audio guides but the skill in producing the contents this is quite complicated digital storytelling yes of course I think that is a good experience but with a food note to be aware of the fact that digital storytelling remains a digital sphere and how to enrich the exhibition environment with the results of the digital sphere well it can be done but we still are at an experimental level not because we are say backwards we are distant from the evolution but because in old society this in our communicative system this is something which is a complicated process which is developing under our eyes this was the last question thank you yes thank you for the attention