 Welcome everybody and thank you for being here. We are going to start this web session war in Europe here, too It is great to have you all here in the room and also everybody who is following this Session online now in the Davos opening address the president of the European Commission Ursula van der Leyen said Europe's reaction to the war is the latest example of how a union has pulled together when it matters the most now This was a strong message For opening speech. She also said we are in it for as long as it takes and it's almost one year since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine and the war is absolutely having huge impact not only on Ukraine But also across Europe and across the whole world What are the policy pathways to tackle and the points of vulnerability to address in Europe as Russia's unprovoked war? Rages on and this is what we're going to discuss now at this session It is a great honor for me to introduce you the speakers of the session and we have son Amar and Prime Minister of Finland Gregory Meeks congressman for New York ranking member of the House for an affairs committee Maya Sando president of the Republic of Moldova and Jean-Pierre Clamadiou chairman of the board NG Group my name is Sasha Vakulina. I'm with Uranus and I'm going to be moderating this session Now if you want to join the conversation, please use the hashtag 23 they're going to also be a possibility for those of you in the audience to ask a question a little bit later to any Speaker here without further ado The first question is going to be to a son of a marine Let's start this to what extent has the war resulted in broad shifts when it comes to all these aspects economic political and also military links and connections across Europe and in what ways can we expect These links and connections to continue to rule this year as we're going into year two of the war in Europe Well, thank you for having us in this panel I fully agree with the Commission's president the result of underlying That the war is not only affecting Ukraine. It affects the whole Europe the whole world actually We are seeing this geopolitical change in the world war World and there is war of values going on in the world the rules based order is being challenged And this affects everyone not only Ukraine, but everyone in in the world and The war affects Europe in very concrete ways as well We are also not only in the war in Ukraine, but also in energy war in in Europe Russia is using energy as a tool as a weapon against Europe and it tries to diminish our support to your crane Putin tries us to be afraid of Russia. What might happen? He wants us and our citizens to think what are the prices of the war and we are already seeing People frustrated with the high energy prices everywhere in Europe But the answer is not the weekend our support towards Ukraine The answer needs to be actually the opposite We need to send more support to Ukraine more weapons more humanitarian aid more financial aid To make sure that the world will will end as soon as possible and for Ukrainian win and this is crucial so our aspect of Putin's Screw drive that he is using now with the energy against Europe should be that we are sending more support for Ukraine Let's go about this support with the To Gregory makes the next question. Let's pick up on that line and go with with what for the long-term support Can be provided from all the allies and Any possible support when it comes to NATO European states and allies further abroad Including the United States like extent to Ukraine beyond what has already been done So first let me thank you and it's a pleasure to be here and let me thank of course the prime minister All right, and the president So do for their commitment and what you're doing in your countries have gone beyond the call of duty staying together Have the opportunity to visit both and to see how you've taken in Ukrainian people who have ran and it's that kind of unity That's tremendously important as indicated because what? Putin did not count on was the unity of NATO and EU and other allies all over and you have exhibited Just the closeness and the determination to stand to make sure that's happening and we can see The strength and determination of the Ukrainian people I visited Ukraine. I was the first One to get into Ukraine after the invasion and the last and the first You know I was there the last codel to go to Ukraine before the invasion and to see and feel the Determination of the Ukrainian people is important. So what can what else can we do? I think that you saw that the United States just passed the tremendous aid package to go to Ukraine But also now talking about more advanced weapons So that they have to protect the Protect themselves from the tax and the air looking at them You see some talking about additional tanks, etc so we can do more by giving more advanced weapons and Training them to utilize those weapons so that they can protect themselves and to make sure that the heinous acts of the of Russia and Putin is is halted that's tremendously important Also, you know trying to make sure and I think here's where coordination can happen with other allies that Putin is targeting the infrastructure and the energy of the Ukrainian people and so we can't forget that also We know that we have a big responsibility So some don't need to help the infrastructure because it's cold now in the middle of the winter and he's counting on us to separate He's counting on us or not not to not to stand together, and I think that by us Making sure that voices From the extremes in any of our countries that they don't went out and they don't hear and we stick together That is going to be what I think will help them to victory. Thank you so much Presidents under alongside socioeconomic disruptions. What are the other key points of vulnerability vulnerabilities with the effects of the war? Exposed in Europe and what is being done to mitigate those vulnerabilities because your country has a Very specific position when it comes to this war in Europe and Russia's aggression on Ukraine Well, some of the vulnerabilities have been already mentioned and this is the energy and the fact that we all relied on Reliable sources to put it this way Of course, Moldova was more vulnerable because it Dependent 100% on the gas purchases before the war started now We get only 40% of our gas needs in from gas problem And we managed quickly to diversify into to find our other sources To supply energy to the country The propaganda which is a very big issue this information and this is of course a big issue for my country But I think this is a big issue for many countries and we need to learn how to be more efficient To tackle this issue is the cyber security the frozen conflict Which became a bigger risk During the the war. So there are lots of vulnerabilities and the energy prices I think I agree to totally agree with the issue that Russia counted on this black mailing us With the energy crisis and Europe managed to find a solution and this was not easy And I just remember the discussions in April and May when you know, there were all kind of Proposals, but no one believed probably were Most of the people would not believe that you will manage to find a solution so quickly And yes We have to buy to pay a price and we feel bad that our people have to pay a high price But I can tell you that in Moldova the gas tariff increased seven times In the last 18 months and this is not a country where people have high revenues so You can understand what are the costs, but we believe in democracy. We value Democracy we want to be part of the free world and the only solution is to stay together And yes, it is difficult, but we have to help Ukraine all of us. We have to Stop pressure. We have to help Ukraine win this war because otherwise all of us will be in danger Mr. Klamatia, which underlying factors of the current economic downturn and potential recession facing Europe? You think are most exacerbated by the war and to what degree will Europe's economic recovery hinge on the outcomes of This war because that's another front there No, that's kind of a front But in fact what I can say echo very much What the president was just saying because I think it applies also to Europe. I think we've discovered and It might sound a bit naive, but I guess we've discovered in February of this year How dependent we were on Russian gas? And we've seen a situation during the first few months of the war where we were really wondering at what point and by whom The the gas flows would be cut at the end of the day it happened in June-July where we've lost not all but a very significant part of The energy which was coming from from Russia We have reacted very very quickly a few key decisions made by the Commission But a lot of action taken by companies utilities energy companies across Europe I would say we've seen the situation degrading probably until August with a very significant Risk premium put on energy prices mean we've seen gas prices Reaching 300 euro per megawatt hour compared to an average of the last 10 years below 20 so the 10 times increase And at this point of time we started to see launch industries Stopping some of our operations in Europe Fertilizers still industries people who are very dependent on energy very worrying and frankly speaking I think at the end of August beginning of September There was this feeling that there would be a major impact on the European economy at the same time we were Starting to think that they might be disruption in the supply of energy during the winter the situation was exacerbated by some specific issues like the the French nuclear fleet being Being under maintenance for for part of it since that the situation frankly speaking has improved very significantly we've been able to Bring very significant quantities of GNL into Europe We've been able to fill up our storage at the highest possible level before the Before the winter period we've been helped by external conditions and weather was pretty marked at the beginning of the winter and But we are in a situation today where I'm pretty confident to say that there won't be disruption in In the supply of energy neither gas nor electricity in Europe during the last few months of winter Prices are starting to go down. We are not back where we were Two years ago, but we are back at a level which is a bit more sustainable And I don't want to downplay the impact of this of this conflict now Obviously this creates a big competitiveness issues for industries in Europe versus Versus the US. I think it will probably take another couple of years before the flow of natural of GNL LNG story is again offering visibility for European consumers, but frankly speaking thanks to the alignment of political decision makers and industries We've been able to go through this this year of 2022 Probably much better than we expected when this conflict started you know, it's obviously the 24th of February in just about a month's gonna mark one year and This is the second time the WAF annual meeting after the spring meeting the second time We are talking about the war in Ukraine and the war in Europe. And when it comes to so many aspects, you know I hear from the speakers here that we didn't think we could do that much We didn't think it could be that much unity. We didn't think it could be that much alignment and the reaction would be that good so let's try to Everybody wants it's a one billion dollar or even more question about how long we're in this and how It's gonna how it's gonna go. What what do you think of it? Well, of course, we don't know how long the world war we will continue, but I think we can Effect the situation also and the key elements right now and It's to do with the how united we have been the key elements are that we have to say very Frankly and out loud that we will support Ukraine as long as needed there isn't that kind of scenario or possibility that that the support from Europe or With the Western world or democracies will diminish That's not a possibility. We will support as long as needed Five years ten years fifteen years whatever it takes we will support Ukraine and this will not stop And it's for Ukrainians to decide when they are ready to negotiate when they are ready to make Some peace agreement that they would agree on and we will support our job is to support them And this is a message that needs to be sent very clearly That our our mission is to support and we will support as long as needed and another way that we could influence the Situation we are already sending arms. We are sending weapons and we need to send more and more advanced weapons We need to continue sending financial support and Humanitarian support taking refugees from Ukraine putting heavier sanctions against Russia But one thing that I really think that might affect the situation is the frozen assets There are a lot of frozen assets from the Russian Central Bank a lot of frozen assets from oligarchs and We need to find solutions. How do you use these assets? I know it's legally And and from legal point of view, it's very difficult matter and very difficult issue But I think we need to find solutions How do you use these funds to support Ukraine to rebuild the crane? I think this could affect the war more than we think because there are many interests behind these assets and these These money. So so I think that might really affect the situation It doesn't solve everything But I think that's the one thing that we haven't yet used and I think we need to find the legal framework To do this to use those assets to support Ukraine and this process of rebuilding and reconstruction It's not being postponed. It's not like when the war is over. That's gonna happen No, you have all known you visited the country, you know exactly that it has already started step by step It's from the regions is from the suburbs the places that have been liberated. They're already being reconstructed So this is of course something that is already on and it's gonna be in focus this year as well Gregor mix, what's your assessment of the possible trajectories of what the war in Ukraine might take going into 2023 and what Possible trajectories could not need to take as well. Well, first I think that What's unshakable and unbreakable is the Ukrainian people's resolve They you know when I visited prior to the invasion What I wanted to know was whether or not the Ukrainian people would fight Truth of the matter is I went Whether I talked to the person that was driving the taxes or that was in the hotel or that was waiting in the restaurants I've asked them if Russia attacked What would they do and? They said we would fight and they referred back to 2014 and said They will never ever allow what happened in Crimea to happen in their native land They will never yield To Putin and Russia they were absolute about that and we see them continuing to fight and so I think that you will continue to see Ukraine winning this war and Fighting when we give them the ammunition and what they need to fight because that determination that that's not going to change that's unshakable and What is as the Prime Minister just indicated that is absolutely Devastating to Putin is our solid unity He's hoping and looking for ways to shake it So we've got to make sure that and I think that the Russia propaganda is Going to be defeated moving forward Some individuals you know when I moved around before and I talked to some people even some in the United States at one point Listening to the propaganda thinking that you know as Russia was talking about that it was Ukraine that was being the aggressors Obviously not true so I see that us coming closer together and Bringing in other allies From other areas of the world also Because as this intensifies and they see the humanitarian humanitarian crises that has taken place when they see that people are forced That that are being utilized civilians are being utilized killed Freezing to death and in cold weather when they see the human dangers that have been taking place and how it is a humanitarian Criminal act that Putin is committing that will bring us even closer together So as I look at where we're going down, we're not going to get weak I know you know people have talked about certain things because of the Congress has changed in the United States of America that now in the house For example, it's it's a split Overwhelmingly the American people Overwhelmingly the people for example Democrats and Republicans are focused and standing strongly behind Ukraine and that's only going to intensify as we move forward Which makes me believe that that will lead to success in the long run as we get through the winter and into the summertime And it's really similar when it comes to the support in Europe according to the latest ball It was over 70% of the Europeans fully supporting the EU response and the EU support and help to Ukraine So this is also one of those things the other aspect I want to go now is that the war in Ukraine as a consequence had a we all have a greater appreciation of Alliances as well and working together and of course NATO being one of them. So I'm going to ask you about that You know when Finland and Sweden obviously announced NATO aspiration. There was this There was this tweet that said I can't remember the author and I apologize if you were the author that what Putin tried to do He wanted to finlandization of Ukraine But instead what he did was your creanization of Finland and Sweden. So you are now on the way there. So what to what extent? And Well, how is the process going because this was Sweden and Finland NATO aspiration happened in response to the war in Ukraine and How is it going? How is the cooperation happening in the solidarity as well because you are doing it? Not just yourself, but you said it you're going to be doing it only hand-in-hand with Sweden because that's another alliance That's another appreciation of alliances well the Finnish atmosphere and The mindset of people changed at the same time when Russia attacked Ukraine in that mode Before that moment if you ask Finnish people, do they think that Finland should join NATO? Maturity would have said no we have that possibility to apply. That's very important that we have that Possibility but we didn't have that kind of discussion Active discussion before and if you asked the majority of Finnish people or the parliament they would have said No, we don't see that that we should right now apply to NATO membership But when Russia attacked Ukraine everything changed the world changed our neighbor was no longer the same neighbor It was aggressive Aggressive neighbor that went across that border and and Finnish people asked themselves What is the border that Russia wouldn't across and that's the NATO border and that's why Finnish people Wanted us to go to NATO 188 parliamentarians out of 200 voted in favor of NATO membership So we we're not we don't have hundred percent, but we are very close In in our parliament as well, and we have this this unity in Finland. We have this Cohesion and consensus about the NATO application And I'm also very happy that we made this decision at the same time that that our sweetest neighbors Did because we are also sharing of course the same geopolitical Atmosphere the same geopolitical security environment, so I think from NATO's perspective also It's very important that Finland and Sweden is applying and and entering NATO together Of course, there's still two countries that hasn't ratified Hungary and Turkey and I have talked for example with with Prime Minister Orban Every time that we meet in in European Council and and he has said that they will ratify as soon as the parliament will starts It's term this spring. Hopefully very soon Turkey we don't have that timetable yet. Of course, we hope that that will happen sooner than later We are fulfilling all the criteria of your ticking all the boxes That is needed to become a NATO member and actually for example Finland is already using over two percent of our GDP to defence and we have done this for quite some time and we are seeing a lot of Support from Ukrainian people to fight for their country and they are fighting for their freedom for their Independence and their country and if you ask Finnish people how willing they are to defend Finland I think we are ranked number one. Ukraine is number two So so we have been in war with Russia and and we know what that's like And we don't want ever again ever again there to be a war in Finnish soil And that's why we're applying to NATO So that there wouldn't be a war in Finland ever again That's the border that Russia wouldn't cross and that's why we are applying to NATO President center Moldova is applying for the European Union. That's another of course as well alliance and this appreciation of it How important is that how and how also do you want it changed because Moldova has also experienced some of the opinion polls that were not necessarily always Supporting the idea and also just to follow up on what Gregory Meeks said there The propaganda issue of course is something that happened a lot in Moldova over years Well, I actually believe that Moldova's chance to survive as a democracy is only within the EU and Just being realistic about what's going to happen in our region in the next. I don't know 10 15 years of course we all hope for a Victory for a speedy victory of Ukraine and this is going to happen, but We cannot See Russia becoming a democratic country very soon And this means that the challenges for the region are still going to be there Moldova survived. I mean managed to deal with the challenges that you asked me at the beginning in To a big extent thanks to the support we received from the EU and from the Development partners and we are very grateful and it is important to have a stable Moldova. It's important for us It's important for Ukraine. It's important for the EU for the EU It is important to have a peaceful and stable Ukraine It is important to have a peaceful and stable Moldova and that's why the EU enlargement is important I think Ukraine has proved its paying the highest price for the democracy and for the EU values Moldovans have been doing their best and yes, the propaganda is Still strong and we are fighting with the propaganda, but we have more than 70 percent of people Over the years despite the propaganda Despite the poverty and the many problems we've been facing We have this constant support for the EU integration and I think the recent gesture by the the generosity they showed by the Moldovan people when they managed to help Six seven hundred thousand of of Ukrainian refugees shows that we we value the the EU values and We value peace and we value freedom So the EU enlargement will make the EU stronger Because EU needs a peaceful and stable Ukraine Moldova and the rest of the countries which are aspiring for the for the new accession President santo, do you think as a long shot for the bit longer future? Do you think that NATO aspirations is something that Moldova could go into after we do feel how vulnerable we are and actually if you know Ukraine is defending us literally and we are taking steps to improve our Defense sector, but we are very realistic about what we can do We are a democratic country and we have to have the discussion. There should be Popular support, but we are having this serious discussion now on whether we can by ourselves Defend us in a new world where we see that war is a real danger And and this was not the understanding five years ago ten years ago when everybody thought that Wars cannot happen on our continent John Pierre Clemente, let me bring you to one of the factors that has been identified as the one of the biggest Long-term risks according to this year's WAF global risks report This is of course the concerns over Climate and the transition to cleaner energy because this is another massive massive Filled there to discuss and but we have also been seeing as you mentioned before some of the transition already starting and speeding up but How have the impacts of the war in Ukraine reshaped the global energy landscape and what are your Expectations when it comes to speeding up this transition away from fossil fuel Dependency as well on Russian, but also the transition in general Maybe before answering your question just to comment I'm here as a business leader, but I'm also a European citizen and I really want to express my Support and in fact my pride to see how Europe was able to react to the situation and also my admiration to political leaders like Prime Minister sorry, and I think I think we should be proud of the way Europe was able to react as a With a lot of alignment between various stakeholders and by the way if we still see very high level of Public support to to this position in Europe the fact that business was able to manage the situation Mitigating some of the impact making sure that they would not be major disruption in the energy system and Limiting the impact on unemployment. I think all of this is really helping create the support now I think the challenge for Europe is really to make sure that we can strengthen our energy system and this is completely aligned with the need for To speed up the energy transition. We don't have any Fossil fossil resources in Europe a bit of coal, but it's not something we want to to build on so the challenge now Is to make sure that we can speed up the development of renewable the EU as an agenda the fit for 55 agenda We need to make sure that the current situation The mitigation of a crisis does not slow down this agenda on the contrary and what we see today is a number of Decisions which indeed should create the conditions for us to speed up development of renewable to speed up development of storage Speed up the development of hydrogen. This is absolutely what we need and by the way What's currently happening in the u.s. With a now very famous ira is creating challenges for us because the u.s Has developed a very powerful and very simple tool to create this this energy transition in North America EU needs to react and I know that President Macron is putting a number of proposals on the table at the Conceal we need to make sure that Europe develop its own ira Once again with this objective of speeding up energy transition This will help us achieve strategic independence and this is something that we absolutely need Thank you so much. We're gonna be now taking a few questions from the audience So if you have them can you please raise your hand so that we could see and we're gonna get the microphone there Would you just introduce yourself and then ask your question? I know there are lots of Topics and the questions that you would like to ask the speakers. I'm just gonna ask you to stick to the topic of this session Could you stand up? Definitely? I will stand up as well. Hello My name is Sakari Terecos came from the global shaper Stockholm hub And my question was about what you actually started the session with which is the support to Ukraine Would it be realistic to hope that also other democratic nations outside of the Europe outside of NATO would Join in giving support to Ukraine including perhaps weapons. Thank you, please Concerning weapons, of course, those are national decisions, but actually many other countries are already doing a Lot they are supporting for example, I visited New Zealand and Australia and they are also supporting Ukraine and and I think the democratic partners across the world. They are supporting everyone different way But the most important thing is that they are supporting. This is a common challenge And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, it's not only It's the situation is it isn't only the war in Ukraine the global situation is the Challenging of our values challenging the rule-based order There are other authoritarian regimes there that are watching very closely to Ukraine And if Russia would win in Ukraine, I'm I bet there would be other countries in the world that are looking Oh that pays off That pays off you want to another nation you can gain land You can gain natural resources that pays off And that's why we need to make sure that Ukraine will win that the war will stop in Ukraine that this kind of Spears of influence this kind of world where there are no rules that Wouldn't continue because then we will be decades and decades in these kind of situations And that's not a very bright future And that's why everybody needs to support us Europeans the states are doing a lot And I'm very grateful that the states are so heavily involved in Ukraine They are sending a lot of weapons They are sending a lot of financial support and we couldn't cope without the United States support right now And that's why we need European strategic autonomy That's why we need to build our own defense capabilities our okay own capabilities in the future all the critical aspects To make sure that that we can also cope Not only to rely in in our partners even though I'm sure that the states would help also in the future But we need to be more strong as Europe also Let me just answer that because even here in Davos as I've talked to other countries from Asia For example, they are also Locked in to try to make sure there's contributions in regards to Making sure that Ukraine wins this war So yes, I think there's a lot and I think others will join too because here's where when I was talking about Russian proper Propaganda ending because Russia has been trying to utilize the blockage of Grains that's causing others to starve But they are trying they've their propaganda says it's Ukraine that's doing it As that continues to be revealed who's actually blocking the ports and the seas and who's causing the starvation That too will take some who may not be actively right now over the long to switch because they will see how it's affecting their nation That's why as the prime minister and and the president has indicated This is bigger than just Ukraine because other nations are affected by the inflation is Affected by what is taking place because of the aggression of Russia So all of the countries that are talking about and seeing high inflation They too will see as we move on Why is significant and important for all of us to join together to make sure that? Russia is not winning this war President something would you comment on that on the importance of other Countries as well providing this help and providing the support when they can not only from the European Union Well, first of all as I said we need to have a better information about the war and we need and this is not just in our region The propaganda I was surprised to to see the Russian propaganda Working in countries which are very far from Russia. I thought it was just my country because it was so close But I think everybody needs to understand this issue that if Russia is allowed to do what it is doing today in Ukraine then next time this can happen to other countries It it's really it goes beyond Ukraine goes beyond the region and then people should Understand that even though they might feel that they're paying, you know a high price for that Still this price is much much lower than the price that people in Ukraine pay because they pay with their lives Mr. Kromadzio that also if I rephrase that question and if I bring it a little bit more in the narrower When it comes to energy wars and everything this was also something the situation where in many cases The support and the help where we're looking for that outside of the European Union For example outside of Europe with some new countries What mean how important is that and do you see it as a possible prospect? Well, yes, I mean we've seen I think this situation as emphasize the importance of G and LNG sorry the fact that LNG is to the form of energy which Which obviously has a very important role to play in Europe not forever, but probably for the next 15 years and LNG is coming from different countries u.s. Is a very significant producer and exporter of LNG we have a number of Countries in the Gulf region and this Indeed this geography of energy is changing due to this crisis And probably we'll see some future changes In the next in the next few years. We had a situation where Asia was also very dependent on LNG My feeling is that they are starting to build the infrastructure Which will allow Russia to send to ship its gas to Asia and this will free up quantities of LNG which will go into into Europe So very significant changes, but again, we should not forget that strategic Independence is absolutely key for Europe energy is an element of vulnerability just because we don't have any energy on Below our feet or around us We need to produce it and the best way to produce it is to go full speed into low-carbon energy Renewable and nuclear for countries where nuclear is acceptable Thank you. We've got questions here in the first row if we could get the microphone here Michael yonder from a protein Denmark. I would like to ask President santo there were some warnings in December that There was was an imminent Russian offensive coming up in beginning of this year and that you were also in the danger zone Could you put some words on the situation right now and tell us if you need more security guarantees than you have now? Well, I wouldn't say that the risk of The military threat is bigger today than what it was in the spring of last year When we knew that if Ukraine does not resist then in the next few days Russians will get to Kishin So there was no question about that Today the situation depends on what happens in Ukraine and we see Ukraine resisting and we see Ukraine advancing so it's really about the the the Ukrainian situation and and When you help Ukraine you also help us and you help other countries in the region, but otherwise, of course, we are vulnerable and There is not much we can do in a short period of time As I said, we are having a dialogue at home about our military situation about the neutrality But this is a democratic country and any changes any decisions have to be taken with popular support We have another question here if we may The first rule. Thank you Thank you very much for this. This is Iqbal Halival from MIT I have a question we you know how much of this is Putin's war versus Russia's war and Has your assessment changed the of your intelligence agencies about how much support does Putin really have because over and over again The you know the message in the West is oh now the mobilization is going to happen and this is going to be the end of Putin he's going to lose support now so many dead bodies are coming back It's going to be end, but it seems like this is more sticky Is it just Putin's war or is it actually Russia's war and what can you do to make it Putin's war versus Russia's war? It's a great question. Thank you very much It's quite difficult question because Russia isn't a democratic country So when we are seeing polls about the support of This war Can we trust those polls are people? Answering those those polls on questions the way that they think that they need to answer because There isn't actually another choice so so we don't know are those polls or or question polls very trustworthy worthy I Think this is Putin's war and it's also Russia's war. There are Russian people fighting in Ukraine there are many of those who are turning their eye another way and in the end I Don't think the question is the key one I think the only key question is when the war will end how will it end and The only answer that needs to be that Ukraine will win and Ukraine will win with our support We don't know what will happen within Russia. I have of course spoke also with with Russian people also with activists that are against Putin and and their message is that there Isn't that much of support of pussy Putin's policy when it comes to Ukraine, but people are afraid They are afraid of saying their opinion. They are afraid of the regime what it might do and this is This is not a new situation. We have seen this From from many years first you put down the Opposition and the civil society you lock up your opponents You silence the media you take control within your country and then These kind of matters can happen and I really worry that there are also other countries where we can see this same same kind of of Change going on and are we reacting soon enough? Are we supporting those critical voices within? Democratic countries that are still democratic countries or are we just Thinking that that's not important right now. Let's see in the future I really worry about European nations as well There are a few European nations where we are seeing the same kind of logic that first your Opponents opposition human rights rights of women rights of minorities That aren't that important attack them and then in the end there is this very Nasty and an evil spiral of authoritarian So am I thinking In my mind is no question Putin's war No question about it. He's lying to his people That's what you talk about Russian propaganda not only outside of Russia, but especially inside of Russia And he tries and when you have an authoritarian government As is in Russia you try to build up Nationalism to make some of the people feel that they are strong with their country that the country is doing right What he is feeding his people are lies and I believe that as long as this if this continues to long lies are revealed and The people in Russia build up. I was recently in Egypt and Watching the number of Russians, especially those that would be drafted leaving Russia Trying to go to other places because they didn't want to lose their lives, but the propaganda inside of Russia, I've got a friend of mine Who has family still in Russia? They call their family members and Say this is what's going on and They said that would they don't believe it. They believe what they're hearing in Russia So it's not there's some good people in Russia But it is Putin's war because of the lies and the criminal acts that he is committing upon people Utilizing, you know, if you see he's firing generals and Others that don't want he's throwing them out of windows or having you know all of a sudden they you know supposed to be committing suicide It is definitively Putin's war Presidents under what's your take on that because that question is something that you would probably feel strong about I Think we can all agree that this is a word that Putin started and this is a word that Putin can stop We can't say how much support there is for the war in Russia because of the reasons that The previous speakers mentioned, but it's clearly started by him again and if he wants it The account I'm so sorry. I wish and the final words from you. Mr. Klamat, you're the final Comment from you on the No, again, I think a unity and alignment is key within Europe with our closer eyes and I think we've we've been able not to be We've been able to resist to put in this view that energy will create Fracture within within Europe. So I think it's really a very good results Let's make sure that we continue with this type of alignment for 2023 Thank you so much. And if I may just very quickly From my side commenting on your question I myself was in Kiev on my done exactly when the invasion started And I lived through that situation and covered the invasion from the capital of Ukraine There is a debate whether this is Putin's war or Russian's war But this is certainly the war of every single Ukrainian who is there or who is now in any other country and found the refuge there Thank you so much for this session and thank you so much for the questions. I wish we had more time Hopefully next time. Thank you