 The People's Democratic Party PDP has cautioned the Zamfara State Governor Bello Matawale against effecting from the party to the all-progressive Congress APC, saying he risks losing his seat. The spokesperson of the People's Democratic Party Kala Lombodion said no law allows the governor to cross to the APC or any other party, as the governorship mandate was de-tutorily given to the party through the ballot box as established by the 1999 Constitution and the judgment of the Supreme Court. It's also cautioned members of the National Assembly and the Zamfara State House of Assembly not to allow themselves to be pushed into losing their seats as the provisions of the Constitution is very clear in buying lawmakers from cross-capteting. Well joining us to discuss this is Dhiram Udayamihi, is the Deputy Publicity Secretary of the People's Democratic Party. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you very much. I'm happy to be with you this evening. Great. What's the story of governors losing their seats? I mean this is not the first time we're hearing. I mean the latest in all of these is the governor of Cross River State, I mean a state that has always been a People's Democratic Party state and he moved to the APC. I don't see the PDP sending him threat messages. Why is Governor Matawale different? Governor Matawale's case is different because going by the history of how he became the governor, you will know that as a political party we lost the state and the ballot box. But the court gave the victory to PDP based on the fact that their primary was not properly conducted and in that judgment the court was specific that the judgment is for PDP. They didn't mention anything there and we feel this is the time to test the law. You cannot claim to the political position through PDP and decide to destroy the latter or try to say that the latter is no longer good. So we want to test the law, we want to know what the law says about people who own our mandate or will become whatever in our party and decide to switch over to APC. Mr Deereau, again I'm just curious because I'll take you back to the Good Lock Jonathan era. I'm going to quote directly from a report that was released. At the time I think it was in 2013 five governors defected to the main opposition. I remember they resolved to dump the PDP for good. I remember Wanmako announced his position. I remember after a seven hour meeting between Good Lock Jonathan and some governors and they moved nicely. In fact we have had these defections over and over and over and as you see on the screen these are people who left as governors from the PDP to other parties and if the roles were reversed I'd like to put it to the PDP. If the roles were reversed would you say you're not going to take these people because you do not want trouble with the APC? Wouldn't you throw a party and welcome them? As a matter of fact and as a political party we stand to condemn this cross-carpeting. Oh really? It is not epina democracy. Yes it is not epina democracy in any way. It is actually to PDP now it may happen to APC but as a political party who believes in democracy, a movement in Nigeria we believe there should be an end to this melancholy or to this drama of people sleeping as PDP today and waking up as an APC tomorrow. That is exactly what we want to correct about our democracy and we think this is the best time to try this through the local and see what exactly the law says about cross-carpeting especially when you become the governor under a political party. I'm trying to understand when the PDP turned a new leaf in terms of defections. Is it because you're afraid to lose that state and the votes that might come from that zone come 2013? Because I'm trying to understand what you mean by you are against defections and it's not good for our democracy but every single day both you and the opposition brandishing the number of people who cross-carpet to your parties back and forth every other day. When did you become a born-again party? You are a Nigerian, you are a Jordanian. What I want you to understand or what I want to book across to you is Nigerians should not jubilate when somebody you're expelling the caliber of the government from one party to another. There must be sanity in our quality and that is exactly what we want to say. Now regarding Matawale or others from PDP that has cross-coupled, we as a political party, we will reduce the situation, we will do, we will recertigize in such a way that they are going to other parties with no affectors when it comes to election in 2023 and we want to ask if what is the essence of, what is attractive in APC now that anybody will not say they want to defect to APC? In terms of achievement, in terms of what, in terms of the sovereign of Nigeria under APC, where is their attraction? So the Nigerians will benefit from asking them those questions. Why are you crossing over? Even though because perhaps the reason has always been the fear of VFCC or they want to advance their ambition through another means through another political party, all these reasons are not too good for our democracy and that is exactly what we are saying. But as a political party, yes, if they are going, that does not mean that we will not strategize in such a way that in 2023 we still win the presidential election. So you just mentioned something about, you know, reasons why these people are cross-captaining or defecting to the opposition. Does this mean that the PDP is no longer serving the purposes of most of these governors and that's why they're leaving because there seems to be problems within the party? One of the reasons why, one of the reasons given by the governor of Cross River State, Professor Ben Ayade was because the party structure in the state was not given to him and as a governor in a state you're supposed to be the leader of the party but of course that was in the case and now the APC obviously are promised to give him leadership of his party which he has now. So I'm thinking why is the PDP frustrating governors on their platform? PDP is not frustrating any governor. Perhaps they will be in the best position to answer this question, what are your reasons for defecting from PDP? Well I just told you the reason that was given by the governor of Cross River. What I want to point out is tell me that political party in Nigeria does, that somehow is the problem. If you cannot stand in a political party and solve whatever is the internal crisis, how far are we sure that the way you are going to is crisis free and as a result you are going there peacefully and because you meet them there we remain by joining them. So what I'm saying in essence is going to another political party does not mean that they don't have crisis. APC have not been able to hold their national conversion right from the world to national level. Does that mean that there's not going to be inflation because you know the the formation of APC to be the combination of virtually three or four political parties. Now that Wari is ending his tenure in the next two years I wish you all APC will remain as a political party. So if you are joining them you are leaving PDP because of you know whatever they call internal crisis which we don't see. We believe they are going there because of their selfishness because they don't have integrity because they don't have principle. That's the reason we think that they are crossing over because if you are sure of yourself as a governor nobody can take the structure of the state away from you. But if you are not good as a governor, if people don't see you as a leader, if you are not acting as a leader, then the party cannot help you because you are a governor and give the structure to you. PDP is not a party. We are one person dictates. It's a democratic party. It's a party whereby we don't have any single person that dictates what operates and that is the difference. If you not think as a governor I need to be given that leadership on the platter of gold irrespective of my spiritual to my followers, then you are getting it wrong. If that is the reason for leaving PDP we have no regrets to lose you. But we are sure that people who have gone out of PDP they have had reason to come back. So they're only going there temporarily. I assure you they come back to PDP because that is the only democratic party in Nigeria. So Mr. Dura you seem to be speaking from both sides of your mouth because you are saying that your party is against these cross-captaining but then you're saying again in that same breath that those people will come back. In other words the door is still open for them to come back. And I did ask that question. If the roles were reversed would you be waxing this lyrical if the roles were reversed? I'm asking if the roles were reversed for example let's say and this is not for certain I'm just using this as an example and I don't want to be quoted. If for example a governor wrote to me a keredo who wants to move to the PDP would you be waxing this lyrical right now would you say well stay in your party because we're against this cross-captaining I mean we're facing this strategy and this is how it's going to be would you be saying that? That is hypothesis that is if let it happen then you hear from us. Interesting that was a nice way to do the question. I see that the party led by former senate president Bukalasaraki he's been going around trying to mend fences with you know the different parties in the different regions and states how well has that worked out because we still see more people getting ready to leave the PDP. What exactly is the problem that cannot be solved? As far as PDP is concerned we don't have any issue that we warrant any governor to say he wants to leave. I'm just explaining whoever is leaving should be asked that question why are you leaving? Is it for the purpose of you know is it service for service and mission for service reasons or because of the masses? If you are acting on the basis that you want to advance your political career and you are foresee PDP as not giving you the ticket you are dying before the gate comes in that is your problem. There's nothing PDP can do about this. If you think you are the problem to control the structure of the party and you are not able to satisfy or to play that leadership role for people to respect you leadership is not demanded it should be commanded if you don't have that ability PDP cannot help you. So if because of that you now say you want to leave the party it's a democratic party it's full of residential people we go people we come but we won't quality give you electorates Nigerians that we know that when you are talking of internal democracy you can only get it in PDP when you are talking of quality candidate PDP will give it to them in 2023 and by the square days of where we are going to win the president that's what we start from. Finally I spoke I spoke with the public relations officer for the for the PDP in Anambra state yesterday and he still sounded almost like you because I asked him they had two they had parallel primaries yesterday over the weekend for their governorship and and they had two people emerge even though the PDP national recognized just one person but if of course if there was no rift in the party we will not see that parallel primary going on and I asked him if the PDP wants to truly win governorship in Anambra state shouldn't they be putting their house in order I'll tell you what his answer was well every other party in the state is having problems and I asked is this the strategy that you want to use in winning and he said well yes so the PDP in Anambra state is hoping that the APCA or the APC in Anambra stage will fall apart so they can come out as winners is that a strategy is that just hoping upon no hope politics 24 hours is a long time in politics and politics is very dynamic there is no two plus two in politics that you can get for everything works for a purpose so whatever is going on in Anambra state just see it as an Agra Agra Agra Agra Nigerians or the election will come and PDP is going to win the strategy is not something we can disclose on the air okay well Duran thank you very much for being part of the conversation he is the deputy spokesperson for the People's Democratic Party we appreciate your thoughts thank you very much for the opportunity all right appreciate well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break and when we come back I will give you my take here's my take free speech is a fundamental human rights but why do we draw the line when does constructive criticism become an attack on the government how does demanding for dividends of democracy become hate speech and how do peaceful protests against a rogue police unit become a play to one sit a government is this an issue of miscommunication or is it a case of outright deafness to the cries of Nigerian people why are we seemingly walking on eggshells around this government I ask instead of hitting the nail heart on the head I mean if all the promises made to the Nigerian state and the people were partially fulfilled at least at least life made easy would there be any case of endless criticisms and these protests of course the federal government and Mr. President needs to stop playing hide and seek it's time to sit down and look up what Nigerians are agitating for no more bulk passing we're tired of this excuses give us clarity and good leadership it shouldn't be that hard to achieve should it I mean instead of exerting so much energy and gagging us give us good governance I'm Mary Annakum thank you for watching do you have a good evening