 Good morning. Good morning. Can't hear you. That's weird. It's my settings. Yeah, I'm hearing you now just kind of a week. I'm turning my volume up. Yeah, I think the only other person I've had a chance to test my sound with was Carol over here. And I'm not sure she heard me very loudly either. I turned my volume up as well, Kimberly. Oh, good. Excellent. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning, Carol. It's going to be a short meeting. We'll see. Hey, everybody. Morning, Steve. Hi, Arthur. Kimberly, Carol, Amy, the gang. Good morning. Anything we need to discuss prior to the meeting. Good. We have a few minutes. I'm going to step away for a few minutes. Good morning, everyone. Hi, Kevin. Hi, Steve. Did the final click this morning, Kevin. Pardon. The final click. For. My grades for the semester. Nice. Okay. I know you're not there yet. Nope. I'm on page three of grading page three of the final. So a couple more days. Yeah. Well, I have it pretty easy compared to you, but. You'll get there and experience that. Miraculous feeling. I am looking forward to it. So it's going to be a busy summer. We've got a lot going on at shown farm this summer. Oh, what are you doing? We're going to kick off our new. Shown farm SRJC tasting room on Labor Day weekend. Ooh. So that's, that's our summer project. That sounds like fun. Good. Yeah. Trained students in a, in a working tasting room. So everybody come on out Labor Day weekend shown farm. I could use some training myself. Can I get trained too? Just being a taster. You can, you can hone your tasting expertise. Every single weekend in the fall. Okay. Well, that's, that's wonderful. Yeah, we're looking forward to it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the conversation. Did you say free wine, Kevin? Is that what I heard you say? That's basically it. Yes. So we probably will start. Charging a modest some, but the junior college will have its own tasting room at shown farm starting in starting Labor Day weekend. So we can train students in a working tasting room. We actually do have. June 11th, we have an event or one of our sip and pick events in the garden that's for sale, but wine is available for free to taste. So June 11th, Saturday. Sounds like you don't have a very good business model. We just, we just care about the, the wine tasters in our community. If you want to support them. Yeah, that's great. Really in Lonnie, I just wanted to check and make sure everything's working. Okay. Here. Although I was tempted to chime in on the wine. Yeah. Yeah, you're sound. Sounds great. And we've got our YouTube feed going. Everything is all set to go in the next few minutes here. Yeah, that's Steve's purpose. So the one conversation is just to make sure all the technology is working. That works for me. And I don't know that we've met Lonnie, have we? Probably not formally. Lonnie is tuning in because. We are still considering some reorganization. We're getting staffed up on the admin side of our division. And so. We're really just trying to cross train and make sure everybody is familiar with all of our different. Boards and committees and all of that. So we'll certainly keep you informed. As we go forward. I think that's a good point. For now. Lonnie might be taking over for the waterways advisory committee over the next month or two. But I don't know that everything has really settled down. In with decisiveness. So. It can over for. Just for, for Kimberly for now. We're still waiting to recruit for her position. And also Mike Maloney. I know some of you might know him. He's, he's moved on. He's now at the city of Cloverdale. So we have to fill those two vacancies. So Michelle and Kimberly and Lonnie are, are supporting all our boards and commissions right now and juggling, juggling everything. So. Amazing job. I agree. Nice to meet you guys. Sorry, I'm not showing my face. I'm not a hundred percent today. So yeah, but I'm here and nice to meet you guys. Welcome. Welcome. And I might just mention this in June. I will not be at the meeting if there is a meeting and. Art will be doing his usual fine job. I'm sure. So we'll just see what happens. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. I think that's a really good job. We don't have any items as of right now, but usually they, they populate a little closer to the meeting date. Okay. So I'll keep you posted art. Okay. So with that. If we're missing Steve, we still don't have anybody from design review, right? Correct. So what's our quorum? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Because it's based on the number. Of committee spots. Yeah. So we have five spots. Yes. And we'll be down to three in June for sure. Right. Yeah. Okay. So Carol, Kevin. Count on you guys. I saw Mark. Didn't I briefly. Mark here. Mark was here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So how many members on the board and how many, how many members are slots are on the board and what form is. Kimberly, can you do that? I know you've got your roll call in front of you. Yeah, I'm going to pull up the agenda. Because I'm. Letting everybody know, I'm, I'm still pretty. As you all know, I'm still pretty new to this. So I want to make sure I'm. I want to make sure I'm. I want to make sure I'm. I want to make sure I'm. Making our. Well, we haven't commenced the meeting yet. It was just a question about. So. I was told that four is our quorum. We have seven positions, but one of them is vacant at the moment. That's. That's my, to my understanding. So Mark was here. Can somebody, Amy, do you have his number? What do you mind giving him a call? He's actually in the attendees right now. We just need to, I think if we can elevate him. It's Mark Neely, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And art. I am available in June. So. If we do have a meeting, I'll be here. Mark. Or a kind of C mark. So we can go through some of that during department reports too. Why don't we go ahead and get started with our meeting today. Since Mark is here. Hello, Mark. It's nine o'clock. I'm going to call the meeting. To order of the waterways advisory committee. And. Could we have the roll call, please. Let's say let the record reflect that all members are present. My roster. Is what I need. I apologize. Well, we all. We have the exception of Charles Carter. And do we have. I think we have everybody except Charles and our. One seat that remains. Filled. Okay. So. I'll just read the. Language I have been given city of Santa Rosa is. The city of Santa Rosa is committed to creating a safe. And inclusive environment where we will not tolerate speech or actions to disrupt the public meeting. Or may be perceived as aggressive to meaning or harmful towards staff. An applicant team or other meeting participants. Staff will be monitoring the meeting and ensuring that everyone is participating respectfully. The staff determines that a meeting participant is acting in a disruptive or disrespectful manner. They will first be muted and given a warning. They will then be removed if necessary. We also may immediately end the meeting. Participants have any additional questions or concerns they should reach out directly to the project planner. Or the applicant team. Okay. Now is the time for public comments. We're now taking public comments on item four. The. Non-agenda matters. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. One second. Doesn't look like item four here. So you're on two, you're on two right now. You just jumped it. Yeah, I have a written. Description of my. Job as chair. I think a little sink here. So anyway, yes, we're now taking public comments on non-agenda matters. This is the time when any participant may address. Matters not listed on this agenda, but may not be listed on this agenda item. So we're now taking public comments on non-agenda matters. We're now taking public comments on non-agenda matters. Within the subject matter of the jurisdiction. Public may comment on agenda items when the item is called. Each speaker is allowed three minutes. Do you want to check to see Kimberly? Is there anyone waiting to make any comment? I don't see any members of the public. Trying to comment. There's a canine member of the public lost to speak. Yeah, I heard one. You're right. Okay. Okay. So the next item is committee business. So I guess I should read that. Roller waterways committees to advisory committees to review development projects, both public and private that are located adjacent to creeks. And waterways for the consistency with these goals, policies and regulations for Creek side. Development identified in the Santa Rosa general plan. So an encode design guidelines. So the committee does not take formal action on projects. It does provide advisory comments to the decision making body. All development projects will locate adjacent to creek or waterways are required to be reviewed by the waterways advisor committee prior. To proceeding. Through the entitlement process. Okay. Item. 3.2 is. Committee reports. Are there members of the committee that would like to. Make a report right now. I would like to. Talk about what we're doing to fill out of the spot. This is an appropriate time to talk about that. Right ahead. Well, so I'm, I guess I'm talking to Amy. When, so design review provides the landscape architect. Is Adam still on design review? And if he is, um, Are there other landscape architects on design review that could. Fill in for him. So we are exploring that. So the, um, We've asked the chair to appoint someone from the design review board. Their, their roster has also been in flux. So we may not have a resolution to that in the next couple of months. But I think that he's aware that. We need an appointment and it may not be. A formal landscape architect, but definitely someone from that. Board. Isn't that it? That's not a requirement then. No, it is not. Oh, wow. Cause that's something that's. Seems to be really important to our committee. To have that, um, perspective. I absolutely agree. We should probably. We should probably look at that, um, in the future. Um, to see if we can have some verbiage that stays. That's who that's the one of the responsibilities. Of the landscape architect that's on design review. I'll mention that, but I may not be possible. I don't remember how many we have on designer review board. There might be one or two. Still there, but, um, Okay, I'll see if I can recruit someone. Yeah, that would be great. We are looking for, um, new members for the designer view board as well. Okay. That's a good point, Arthur. Oh, it would be nice to have a landscape architect. Um, okay. Any other, uh, uh, comments. Carol. I'd like to echo arts, um, concerns. I always turn to, um, Adam and then to Charles, who also seems to have a background to fill in a lot of holes on very important matters, um, along the creek. So yes on that, um, I'd like to, on a personal and on a waterways note, um, acknowledge the passing of Stan Gow, who's seen all on this board from park and wreck. Um, Stan and I, I became Stan's right hand on the park and wreck, the board of community services board. Um, when I joined and he was both a very dear friend and a mentor. And the story that Stan told me was he went on the board of community services. Because it was his only way into this board, the waterways board was the one he wanted to be on, but there were no slots available. So he came in through the side door and that's how he got hooked up with park and wreck. So it pleases me, I guess, that there was no opening because I would not have known him like I had the opportunity to, if it wasn't for a full waterways board. His, um, memorial service is on Father's Day, June 19th at Dimeo Park. As of right now, I think it's scheduled to start at, uh, two o'clock. I'm sure it will be a huge celebration of life. Where, where, where is it at? Dimeo Park is in the West end. Um, some of us call it little Italy to this day. Thank you for that. When did he pass? He passed on the first Saturday. Um, I was down. One of Stan's many accomplishments was beginning the first Saturday creek cleanup at Prince Memorial Greenway. And, um, I was there. It was an interesting morning for me. And the last person I checked in with was Alistair, who has also recently retired. And we checked, uh, check notes on, have you seen Stan? I saw Stan on. Birthday downtown. At the Earth Day event. And, um, Alistair and I made a promise to each other at the end of. The creek cleanup on first Saturday that we checked in and we both discovered that he had actually passed that morning. Sounds a lot like congestive part failure. The good news is, um, Friday night, he was fine. Saturday morning, things just went south and, um, he was gone. And that's the way Stan would have wanted it. I would like to also speak for a minute about Stan. And, um, I just wanted to make sure that he knew him. Served with him on the committee. Um, got to know Stan somewhat. And he was an amazing, amazing man. Um, in spite of his physical disabilities, he was. A very supportive of the neighborhood, very supportive of the, uh, creeks. And, um, it was just a wonderful person, brave, brave soul. And I just want to say he'll be missed and, um, I just want to thank him. I just want to thank him. I just want to thank him as Carol did. So, um, One other thing about Stan. Yeah. Even though it's not sanctioned, um, Stan always made sure there was pizza at the end of, uh, first Saturday creek cleanup on Prince Memorial greenway. There's going to be pizza. For the June. First Saturday in honor of Stan, whether the city, um, sanctions or not. Lovely. Any other reports by members of the committee. I did want also mentioned that there was a, um, an event over on lower cold and creek restoration project, which was a ribbon cutting this last week. And it was, uh, Really a pleasure to be there and see all the wonderful progress on that. Um, is Steve Brady here today, by the way? Will he be making any report? Good. Well, I won't talk anymore about that. We'll have that report in a minute, Steve, but, uh, congratulations to you and the staff for, um, What is it? 20 years of, of work on this. Okay. We'll, we'll hear from Steve and all his, uh, wonderful accomplishments in a minute. Um, anybody else from the committee? Want to say anything. Okay. Department reports, planning, economic development. Amy. Yes, thank you. Good morning. So, um, just a few little updates. First, as you've noticed, we're having some challenges, um, With just staff and numbers of staff. So we've noted that, um, Michelle has moved into a different role. And so we are recruiting for two new admin secretaries. So we have Kimberly with our committee who's been fully trained and with us for the last few months. And we've had a lot of new plans. And Lonnie is also going to be hoping in to support our committee. Um, so you'll see Lonnie, um, here and there over the next few months as well. So, um, we talked about that before the meeting, but I just wanted to formally note that. And then in a, in addition to this, we have, um, we are onboarding five new planners in the next month. Um, we've had two people that have moved on, but we also have a whole bunch of new grant money. So we've been able to create some new positions, um, to support our work and our grants. So we are very excited to bring out a whole bunch of new planners. So you'll be seeing some new faces in the coming months as those planners come on board and start, um, Being assigned projects and moving those forward. And then also I'm really happy to announce Jessica Jones is our new deputy director. She's also the new vice president of the planning commission. And she's the new deputy director of the planning commission. And she just happened this week. And so, um, she will remain liaison to our design review board. And Claire Hartman will be our liaison to the planning commission. So you might see her here and there in that role as well. All right. That's up for staffing. Um, so other things going on. We are, um, we're going to start with the planning commission. And we're going to start with the planning commission. And then we're going to move on to the city council and planning commission at a joint item on Tuesday. To report out on our community engagement around our. General plan alternatives. So we've been looking at different land use and circulation. Scenarios or alternatives. Um, so we can create one. Land use circulation. And then we're going to move on to the city council. And then we're going to move forward on an environmental impact report. And I know I've seen quite a few of you out and about in the community during those meetings. So it was really great to see you all. Most of you in person. Um, so that is happening. We are also working on an update to our short-term rental ordinance. So that will be coming forward. A little bit later this summer. So that's going to be coming forward to the planning commission in June. You probably seen a couple other jurisdictions move policies forward such as that. So we are, we do have direction from our climate action subcommittee to do that work. And then I forgot to mention, but as part of our general plan, we are working on our housing element as well. So that is on a different time schedule because we are required by state law to adopt to that. So we will be releasing a public draft on that next week. And then there will be a joint meeting with the planning commission and housing authority. June 9th. And then city council on June 21st. So I'll make sure to include you in the email distribution. When those items move forward. And that concludes my department report for today. I'm happy to answer any questions. If you have any. Anyone? Yeah. One question. Is that a goblin reading a book behind you? What is that? What are we looking at? That's the black. I don't know what it is. I'm not totally sure it's from Panama. Okay. It looks like a goblin reading a book, but I don't know. On a reflective table. Thank you for the observation. And with that, we will go to the water department reports. Steve. You're on. Good morning, chair and members of the committee. Yes. We had a big event last week. Our ribbon cutting for a cold and creep phase two, which was great. And yes, it was about 20 years in the making. So the plan was adopted by council in 2002. And just a number of things had happened in between with constructing the Prince green green way, working on the Creek master plan. And then more recently. Floods and fires and the pandemic. So we had to keep pushing through to build the project. But I think that's a good point. We had to keep pushing through to build the product project, but I am happy to report we got it built on time with the contractor and within the budget that we had. So it was a great event to celebrate the product project and also bring our funding agencies around to see the project because really the construction was funded almost entirely by grants from the county ag and open space, California department of water resources. And also the California resources agency. So it was great to kind of celebrate phase two. And now we'll be moving in looking at phase three, which we do have about 50% plan, but we need to do some acquisition and we will be looking for grants for construction. And that is actually the longest phase of the project, about 2,500 feet of streaming. So that was a great event. And then a couple other announcements. We have some changes on our team. Alistair. Alistair Blyfus, who was our Creek stewardship coordinator has retired the beginning of May. So over 21 years with our team. And he's been our first Creek stewardship coordinator and set the bar very high. And just a couple of things that I have here. We keep keeps track of our cleanups and our involvement. So with his time with the probe program, almost 122,000 people have been involved in the program as far as part of a cleanup part of an education event. So it's kind of been a huge impact. And then just a couple of other things. Over 13,000 cubic yards of tracks have been cleaned up along our Creek over the course of his career. And he has already been coming back as a volunteer, which is great. He came to the first Saturday cleanup. And hopefully we will see him from time to time. And I am happy to report. We have a person to fill his spot here with me today. His name is Kyle Longberg. And he comes to us with experience from the Doma of water, working in stream maintenance and fisheries and engineering and more recently working for Pacific watershed associate as a project manager and geologist. So we have a great experience coming to our team. So he will be coming to these with me and we'll get him exposed to Preaks and what the great work that you do on this committee. So with that, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions. Welcome to our committee meeting. Really appreciate it. I look forward to working with you. Yeah, you as well. And quick, quick question or comment. Yeah. Welcome, Kyle. And I just wonder if we. Would like to or can do some formal recognition and thanks to Alastair for all he did. I imagine there's some other formal channels that are doing the same, but it might be appropriate for our committee to. Give him a little shout out or celebration, maybe at our next meeting, but he was so delightful to work with. And he made such incredible contributions. I'd love to do something to formally recognize that. That's a wonderful idea. Any other ideas of how we'd like to do that by anybody on the committee, but certainly inviting him to the meeting. Oh boy. Another meeting. He's going to say thanks a lot. Yeah, thanks. Only my thousandth meeting. No, that's a very generous offer. I think that's nice. Carol. Thank you. First, I'd like to apologize for my computer being so slow. My video keeps starting and stopping. I will address that. That being said, I now have. Alastair's personal cell phone number and plan on inviting him to the first Saturday pre cleanup that he often shows up to. I don't know if you've heard of Alastair's personal cell phone, but also of Alastair, perhaps. That's my first thought. And I'm just going to squeeze the sin. Steve, I sent you a slightly off topic email a couple of days about property that Alastair suggested you might have some insight on. I don't know about a baby. I didn't see it. What was it? Oh, no, that was Steve Brady. Excuse me. Oh, and, and I don't know if you've got that email. I don't know if you've got it. I don't know. I don't know if you've got it. I don't know if you've got it. I don't know if you've got it. I don't know if you've got it. I actually have, have that. And I can respond after the meeting. Excellent. Thank you so much. Okay. Steve. While you're there. Steve, while you're there. We spoke briefly at that. Ribbon cutting regarding the next. The project is going to be starting the summer, right? This phase. Well, three of the cold and creek project will probably be a couple of years out. Like I said, we have to acquire funding for construction. So I think, you know, two to three years would probably be on the optimistic side. So your work is a program to some degree. Are there other projects that you have in mind? I think you were mentioning there might be some. That will not be quite as extensive. As the cold and creek project or the green way, but do you have others in mind that you want to. There are just, you know, lots of large projects that we have, which are great, but they take some time to plan and build and acquire the funding for sure. So we're also looking at kind of smaller. Things we can do with the community and planting, just get more activities out there. You know, some of the smaller creeks around town as well. Okay, great. Any other questions of Steve or comments by anybody? Yeah, just me. Can Steve, can you pan to your right? Steve Brady, can you pan to your right? You got to start talking so the video will jump to you. Okay. Yeah. So if, if Amy or Kimberly needs a empty binder, can they come to your office? Yeah, there are a lot here. This is not my office, but is a conference room here at MSD South. So if we need a binder throughout the city, this is the place to come. All right. Keep that in mind. You're very observant. Yeah. And note to self clean up my background before I get on a meeting with art. Oh, my gosh. Okay, I'll watch what I say from now on. Well, that's because he's sitting in front of a river. So anyway, Amy, I think there was one more item that the committee was interested in hearing and I think you, we talked a bit about this. So you want to talk about the, it's the Hyatt. Yes, absolutely. Apologies for forgetting that during my department report. I actually have two things. So one's the Hyatt. And I wanted to follow up on what happened with the fence that you all reviewed and provided comments on, as you know, we went through a couple of different meetings on that particular item. And so we did summarize all of your comments, almost verbatim and forwarded that on. So that was part of the record for the zoning administrator to make that decision. And so that did get approved by the zoning administrator. And so that was the final resolution. Let me see the date that that happened on April 7th. And so I can send you the final resolution. If you would like just to see those final conditions, but Amy Nicholson served as the zoning administrator for that meeting. And so she did walk through all of the concerns expressed by your committee. And those are also delineated in short within the resolution. And so, and there were conditions relating to a lot of those components to make sure that they were, that they will be taken care of. And so the, the fence alignment stayed the same as when you last saw it. So it is the one that's a little bit closer in. And the only thing I think that was perhaps different from when you last saw it is, or your recommendations is the fence is black. And so it was a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more. They didn't move to the green color. And, and I know I talked to Steve on the phone about the concern about the, a couple of parts where it was like a mesh. Material that was not, that was somewhat opaque and where the gate location was. And I didn't hear that there was a change. So I just wanted to make sure that there was, that there was a chance that the fence will remain as what was on the plan. So just wanted to make sure we're aware of that. And that the final design of the fence did not have those little pickets. So it's just a flat top on there. And so I, I went back and watched a little bit of the portion of that video. It is on YouTube. I'm happy to send that link out if you want to rewatch that. So there's a lot of questions on that one. How tall did the fence end up being planned for? Let me see. I believe it was. Did it go to six? No, it didn't go to six. I believe it was eight. Eight stayed. Yes. Carol. Did you have a, your hand up. height and the color. So those were all addressed. And just to elaborate, the fence is in pretty much its current location. It did not move down closer to the creek. It stayed further. It stayed closer to the Hyatt than originally presented by the presenter. Correct. Correct. So it is consistent with the second review that you received. So it is a little closer in. And let me see. I can pull it up here and I'll share my screen. And the other piece was how the art would interact with the project. And so we did get confirmation that the art that was on the Hyatt property is considered private. So there is no public realm issue, although they do intend to allow members of the public to walk through the property to view that art installation. So the blue is where the fence line is approved to be. It's really nice getting feedback like this Amy. I really appreciate it. Great. Well, we'll continue to do that. And I think with the more controversial projects, we'll continue to write up a memo to forward on to the review authority that will occur after you. And one more point of clarification that I forgot to mention during the department reports is we are going to move to having memos describing the projects before you versus staff reports. So we're going to try this out. Let us know if it's the right amount of information and detail because your committee sees projects in a preliminary way. A lot of times it's very conceptual at the time that you're reviewing projects. It is challenging to write a full staff report and provide that full analysis because strategically this committee, you want to be early in the process to be able to form the comments for staff for their review. So we want to go to memos and that will help streamline the work for staff as well. And just let us know at any point if there's not enough information or before the meeting, we can always of course anticipate what information you need or questions so we can get the right amount of information for you to be able to provide comments. So on today's item, you'll see that change occurring where it is in memo form versus staff report. Well, thank you, Amy. That's very helpful. Any other questions on that? Yeah, I do, Steve. So I'm looking at it right now. And since this is kind of a short memo because it's just proposing it's a project we've seen before. And there's just some changes on it. The information that pertains to our committee, is that information going to not be on there anymore? It is. So you mean we should be including the watershed and the watershed map? No, I don't mean that. I mean, we're talking of there's specific things within the creek manual that apply to this project. And then there's information about setbacks. But this one doesn't have that. But when it does have that issue, is that going to be in the memo? Yes. So we can absolutely include that. So you mean the direct quotes from the creek plan on what apply to this reach or this section? Yeah, because that's really, for me, that's really important to be able to see what is being affected and what the changes that are being made to meet those requirements. Okay, yeah, we'll definitely look into that. Thank you. Any other questions or comments on this item? Okay. Is there anyone from the Sonoma Water Department here today for a report? Doesn't appear that they are here today. Okay. Well, with that, we're going to move into our scheduled item for today, the recess storing phase two planning project on Streamside Drive. And I understand Susie's here. Would you like to give us the report on this project, Susie? Certainly. It just takes me a moment to get my screen up. Not quite as savvy as some of my coworkers. But while I'm doing this, well, I get it. I wanted to comment on Steve's update. Are you able to see my screen? We see your screen, but it's not in presentation mode. Okay, perfect. It looked like you were looking at my calendar from my screen. Anyways, before I get started, I wanted to comment on Steve's updates. First, when I heard the creek ribbon cutting, it made me miss being in the water department, being part of the water department team. But then I'm really, I'm so happy for Alistair, and he will be so missed. I did, I've done a couple of creek cleanups with him myself and got a tour going underneath City Hall, which was some amazing nasty stuff, but it had some amazing art as well. And Alistair was just gifted in touring us through there. So anyways, with that, I'm going to bust into this and say good morning, Chair Rubinovich and members of the committee. The project before you is the recess storage phase two, we're calling it. It is a project that was before you once before with a different address. This is a new street or an extension of an existing street now as a result of the previous project. It's at 4465 and 4480 Streamside Drive. It was before you back in April of 2019. At that point, it involved a large four-story self-storage facility and two residential units, one facing the creek. And that's, that property is really the one that is more, is the reason that we're before you today. That project involved a conditional use permit, a hillside development permit, design review, and of course a map, which is how we have extended the street. This application that revises that project came into us last June. Actually, that's when we first saw it with staff with a pre-application meeting and we actually got the applications. It's kind of spread over the 2021 and 2022 because there was some clarification speed on what applications and materials were required. The design review board has seen this on a concept basis as well and now we're looking for comments from you on a concept basis. So the project before you proposes actually three self-storage structures. Two of them are single-story and are on the property that's removed. It's on the kind of the north side of Streamside Drive. And then the three-story structure fronting the creek path is the one that we really want feedback on. And that is, you can see kind of a rendering here. The required entitlements as a design review, which will go before the design review board and minor conditional use permit for the self-storage use going to the zoning administrator. And you know what I'm just noticing right now that this is not completely accurate. One of the holdups at the application submittal phase was a determination on whether or not they would require a hillside development permit. And because the footprint of this structure versus the previously approved residential structure is a little bit different, they are required to go through and get a new hillside development permit. And due to setbacks, they're on the other property on the north side of Streamside Drive. They're also required to have a variance. I apologize. This presentation was made a while ago. So this is an aerial view of the project area. And if you can see my mouse, this is the site in here. The last time you saw it, this wasn't subdivided. So this is here is where Streamside Drive is now extended to connect to Highway 12. And this here is where the larger four-story self-storage structure is constructed, which I've got pictures of later on. Oh, here we go. There's my star. Where the yellow star is, is part of the project that shouldn't really, I mean, it's part of the same project, but it's not, this is where we want you. Your input is on the parcel closest to the creek. The orange star, sorry to interrupt you. That's a residential building? No, the orange star where that, let me back up here, that's a vacant parcel right now, but it's adjacent to residential. It's directly adjacent to residential. So that right in where this orange star is, is where they're proposing two single storage, single story storage units. Okay. Thank you. And then at the green star, no, thank you for letting me clarify that. The green star here is where the, it'll, on the top level, at the top of the slope, it'll be two-story, and then it steps down and creates a three-story structure adjacent to the creek. Thank you, Susan. You bet. Or creek path, really. So here is what it looks like today. Constructed with the, you can see the street extension there and the area that we're looking at developing are for the hillside and the creek adjacent to the creek are circled here in red. And right in here is, you can see the residential uses here. This is where they're proposing the two single story, a little bit nicer on these aerial views. Here's a site plan. Again, this building here is constructed. The street is constructed. This is new, and these are new, the two single stories. It's also notable to point out on this is that the applicant was kind enough to grant us an easement for a well site here, so that we've got the, we've got a very powerful emergency water source. Thank you to the applicant. So here are some renderings with and without landscaping. And this is from the creek path. And this is again from the creek path while, you know, heading west in this case. So the general plan land use here is retail and business services through a pre-zoning actually part of the previous project also included annexation into the city. They were zoned consistent with the general plan, which is general commercial. Here's their landscaping plan. This is, it's preliminary. We will get closer. Now that they've changed the project, there was quite a bit of tree mitigation required from the previous one. And so we're upsizing trees and trying to make it, trying to squeeze all of the required mitigation onto the property as best we can. So if, if we're unable to do that, of course, we want to plant plants that are plant trees that will be successful and not overcrowded. And if we have to modify to an in lieu, a partial in lieu fee, we will. Here's their plant selection. And with that the planning and economic development department requests that the Waterways Advisory Committee provide comments and direction for recess storage phase two, a proposed self storage facility at 4465 and 4480 Streamside Drive. I also have, I do have creek cross section and setback exhibit for you if you'd like to, I know that it was from the previous project, but I thought that might be helpful. Okay. Do we have the applicant here? And so if they'd like to make a presentation, this would be the time to do it. Yeah, they don't, they won't be making a presentation. Their engineer is here to answer any questions that you have. Okay. Fair enough. Questions by the committee for staff or the applicant? Carol. Thank you. At some point as we get further into this discussion, I'd like to go back to the landscaping plants to see how many of them are native, to see how many of them are wildlife habitat friendly and low water usage, but that doesn't have to be now. Thank you. It seems like a good time. We might as well delve into that. Yeah. There you go. I am not an expert on the topic. Don't know that we have an expert on the topic present at the meeting. I have made a note based on previous conversation today that I will invite landscape professionals to these meetings in the future. So we don't know which of these are native. Well, the sea knows this. I'm not the one who can click through, but does anyone know how many are native? How many are non-natives? How many are friendly to art? Can you take this? Well, no, but what I would suggest is, I mean, because it's in a foreign language, right? It's in Latin. I think if we're not going to have a landscape architect on, then we probably need the common names and need to know if it's native or non-native in the future. I'm thinking. And the location of the plantings would be nice. Yeah. The full landscape plans do include the description of the trees, coast, live oak, valley oak. There's eastern red buds, shanticle repairs, and a number of smaller plantings. There are full landscape plans available for this project. So are they submitted or just available? I believe they were submitted. They're just not the full landscape plans are part of the staff report. So without, I have a landscape architect that I'm trying to recruit and he just emailed me. So I don't want to give his name, but he's watching this right now and he says there's only a couple native plants on that plant palette. Is that right? I'm looking at 19 36-inch box valley oaks. 19. Wow. Four coast live oaks. I'm no expert on native plants. My first job was working at a rose garden. So I do have some background in that. Can you put the palette back up? Um, it's, I guess, uh, it's hard for to read all of this. I'm, um, the, the correct pansta down at the bottom, um, is native. The sea anothmosis, I'm not sure where that is. I'm looking for it. Second column. Yeah, there it is. That's native in the backer is, um, wherever that might be is, yeah, no, that's not the same. Um, now the bottom right pigeon point. So, so I guess, but this went, this, so you, I guess my concern is that there were changes made to the landscape plan for the first time when we reviewed it. Is that correct Susie? I couldn't tell you for sure. I have not compared the two and they're not required to plant native native. They're pursuant to the city's water efficient landscape ordinance. There, um, there's quite a few Mediterranean plants that are also allowed and we see these in a lot of landscapes. Um, uh, yeah, so, um, I have not compared the two. This is being reviewed based on its own merits. It's a, it's a brand new project. Um, the landscaping for the, um, you know, the original building, uh, the four story, um, structure, that one is, uh, is, you know, they will be planted as it was approved. Um, but I want to say it is, because it was a heavily wooded property, it is predominantly trees and predominantly valley oak and coast live oak. There are, again, a significant number of, like you said, 36 inch boxes because we're upsizing to handle, handle all the mitigation onsite as well as it's very important to plant them so they'll be successful. So, you know, they won't overcrowd each other. So, um, I think some of these more decorative. I think you'll see, you won't see as many of them. Um, and they'll be just, you know, just burst it intermittently throughout the site, but I mean the predominant landscape features will be those trees. Excuse me, but I, do I, do I see the valley oaks? I don't think I do. Um, the other question I have is, has this gone to the design review board? It has on a concept basis. And anything about what they have said, because, you know, we're not experts necessarily in this, but it would be nice to know what they're, um, looking at as well. I believe the second tree in the list, the Acorkus levada is the valley oak. Really? The one I had didn't look like that, but okay, I believe you. Arthur, I think you had your hand up. Well, I'm just still talking about the same thing. Um, Eric Wade, you're the PE on the project, is that correct? That's correct. Yeah, I'm the, I'm the engineer of record. I've been involved with the project since the beginning of 2016, Canuck Station, and I was, I attended the original Waterways Committee hearing, say a lot of familiar faces. Oh, okay. Well, welcome back. So, did you say you had other landscape plans that you could show us or? I do. It's, it's not a lot more information. Um, the layout? It's the planting legend as what I have that's, that's not on that list and a table with the tree mitigation measures. Does it show the layout? Tree replacements. Yes. Oh, is that possible? We can see that. All right. And I, I think the layout is, um, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't show way, which type of tree is planted where they're just graphically. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's, that's kind of what I'm looking for. No, it's, it's the same plan as, uh, the one I'm looking at is the same as in the staff report. By the way, you're, that quick, good, it's a lot about that. It was the Valley Oak. So thank you for clarifying that, Eric. I just, Google action happens. Well, Google, yeah. Kevin. Thanks, Steve. And thanks, Susie, for the presentation. The, you mentioned the water efficiency ordinance. Is that what guides plantings throughout the city on projects like this? Yes. Yes, it does. What it does, it doesn't actually, um, I won't say it doesn't provide the selection. It just limits the amount of water basically and how plants are installed. So and how irrigation systems are installed. So it limits the amount of lawn that can be installed. It says that, you know, you're given kind of a, you have to do a calculation of your water budget. And it's a pretty complex worksheet, actually. And then, you know, so there's a mix of, you know, very low, low and moderate and high water use plants. And that in order to get the approval on the landscape, you have to, whatever you select, has to calculate into that, that irrigation budget. We refer to, gosh, I don't know what the acronym stands for, but Wuckles is the tool that we use for determining whether it's, you know, very low, low, moderate or high. The ordinance also requires that trees be irrigated differently than the drip system that plants are on. Other shrubs and what have you are on. Okay. All right. Well, that's helpful. Thank you. All right. Are there any other guidelines promoting, say, native species? I'm thinking in terms of us having a great opportunity because we're along the creek where there is a lot of vegetation and studies that have shown the support for native birds and insects. That support comes from native plants, and that tends to make the whole ecosystem much healthier. Does the city have any guidance other than the water efficiency ordinance for promoting, say, native plants? I think that the guidance that I've seen, I can't direct you right to one. I know that our water department, the water use efficiency team does provide some tools that are really helpful for designing landscapes. But again, I think that they go equal on the native and Mediterranean varietals. Okay. I think actually in our own demonstration gardens down at City Hall and over at MSCS, the water department over on Stony Point, I believe it's a mix of Mediterranean and native. If I might, I just pulled out the center as a citywide creek master plan, and there is a policy HA2, which does talk about enhancing creek areas that require some remediation to reach a healthy condition, talks about removal of non-natives and revegetating riparian corridors with native species to enhance aquatic and terrestrial habitat. So maybe this is something we could consider as to future projects and talk a little bit more about the makeup of the vegetation that is adjacent to creeks and also how it affects projects that might be adjacent, but a little bit above where the actual creek setback line is. So it might be a good topic for future meetings. That is exactly why this project is before you for that kind of comments pertaining to this project, and you'll have that opportunity on every project that comes before you in the future. But that's why we're bringing it to you today on a concept basis. So you can help guide that. So this is why we bring it to you at the beginning of the process in theory. And so those comments, that is the comment that I will take forward to the applicant and ask them to give us a final, when they give us their final landscape plan, to make sure that they, whatever you direct here, it's sounding to me like you'd like more native closer to the creek path, but I'll let you confirm that with your final comments. Thank you, Susie. Appreciate it. Thanks. And thanks, Steve. That's helpful. I'll look at that master plan, HA2. But I like the direction and I'd like to talk about that more in the future. Two more quick questions. Amy, you mentioned that we're going to kind of a memo format. So when I'm looking at the attachments for this item for this meeting, I see the staff presentation. I see a project narrative written, I think, by the developer. Is there, to what were you referring when you said we changed to that memo format this time? So if you look at the attachments, it's actually towards the end, says concept review memo. So that is really what's in place of the traditional staff report that you've been seeing more commonly. Okay. All right. I did look at that. And it's just, it's pretty brief. But okay, good. That's helpful. So we'll look at that in the future. And then the bigger question for me, excuse me, why the change from the multifamily to just storage, what happened to the multifamily project? I'm going to go ahead and answer. We've heard it's very difficult to make housing pencil out. This developer is they developed self storage. They had added housing as responding to a suggestion from city staff. And they were very, very well intended, I will say, in trying and getting the project approved with housing. When they realized that they couldn't afford to build it, they tried desperately to sell it. And I was like desperately to sell it to another developer that could, but because of the height of buildings and the number of units, it just, they needed more units for that type of construction. So especially with the rising development costs right now. Okay, thank you. Carol and then Steve. Thank you. One of my questions was going to be about seeing the property for sale intermittently with the permits in place for the housing. And you just explained why that when for sale didn't go through, these are the same owners of the property as when it was presented to us the first time. And that gives me additional perspective that I really appreciate. Point of clarification for all intents and purposes, might this very well be the last time we see this project? Yes. So as I have been informed a number of times, our purview is limited to the area adjacent to the creek. I am really concerned that this plant palette that we have that's not marked for native is also not marked for adjacent to the creek. So it's really, I'm really feeling that my tool set for making accurate assessments is exceedingly limited on this project. And it's not the first project that this has happened on. It's both very frustrating and it makes me feel that I'm not doing my job. Can I suggest that for the for the sake of discussion, that you assume that this plant selection will be along the creek and give us recommendations that would address it if that were the case. For example, all native plants along adjacent to the creek or something like that. Very good. Thank you. Steve. The only thing that I wanted to add just in the Creek Master plan table 3.1, there is a list of appropriate plants to be planted as part of a rebed project along the creek. And it is actually separated between the upper bank, midbank, lower bank. So that could potentially be looked at when you're considering what would be planted kind of in the transition area. Would you mind if you could just make sure we get that sent to us? That's kind of hard to pick everything out in this large document we have. Yeah, we can definitely work with Amy and get this table out to the committee because I think it will help in your review. Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt you. You had other things you wanted to mention? No, I think that was just the only thing I thought would just help with the discussion. Arthur. Yeah, I just want to point out that adjacent to the creek might not be completely correct. We're looking at the riparian area, which can extend quite a ways out away from the creek channel itself. I just want to make that point. And then I also want to state that our master plan was in August of 2013. And I wasn't involved with the preparation of this, but Native plants and drought resistant plants, I mean, in our drought, I don't know, the new climate regime with extended drought periods, it seems that these two things have to be incorporated together. Drought resistant plants and native because not all native are going to necessarily be drought resistant. So I just want to point out that we have to look at a confluence of these two issues. Thank you. Any other questions? We're not quite at the comment phase yet. Any other questions? One other question, Steve, on the rendering, it looks like there are windows at one end of the building facing the creek, which I love. I love that because of the our goal of eyes on the creek. Are there any other windows, like those thin strips that we're showing or that maybe those are just decorative and not windows? And are there opportunities to add any more windows? Again, with the idea of eyes on the creek, the project looks great. And I'm just disappointed that we don't have eyes on the creek that would have been provided by the residential facility. So any possibility of more windows? But isn't that contrary to a storage facility? I mean, you know, people aren't they're only there to pick up their stuff and leave, right? I don't know if it's that important for a storage facility. That's just my opinion. Yeah, I think you're, yeah, you're right, probably. But anyway, I thought I'd pose the question. And Eric, I don't know if you can address that. It may not be the same level of visibility that a residential building would have, but that there it's it's certainly an improvement from a vacant lot. And just my thought is just having the public road extending through this property is helping with this building and having having the presence of building and people using the building is this help helps with that having having eyes on the creek. All right, thanks. Anyone else? Okay, I'm going to open public comment on this item. Is there anyone in the audience as it were? Doesn't look like we have any participants on zoom other than our applicant. Okay. So this is time for comments. Who would like to go first? Yes, please. Go go right ahead, Mark. There we go. Yeah, I wanted to jump in here. Now, this is because this stretch of Santa Rosa Creek is considered a natural reach, correct? That's how it looks. I think it's called West Greece 3 or something like that. The reach a West. That's it. Is it a natural reach there? I believe it is. I believe it is. It is not culverted. But Steve and Kyle might know. Yes, I would consider it a natural reach. Yeah, it's a very nice reach. I was over there yesterday checking it out. So I don't know if this kind of grades over into comments, but I wanted to mention that I was going through the creek design guidelines, and it says that multi-story buildings must be stepped back from the creek. Single stories only are permitted directly adjacent to the creek. Buildings over three stories must have a minimum of three steps rising from a single story at the creek edge. Now, what we have here is basically like the broad side of a barn. I mean, it's a huge looming blank space above the trail. I realize it's not directly adjacent to the creek because the trail is in the way, but the trail is of kind of our concern here. So I'm just curious if that's something that other people have a concern about. Is this something that I think needs to be addressed? That was my main thing. Also, the visual impact, it appears that you may be able to see it from Flat Rock Park, which is just downstream, like two-tenths of a mile. I'm wondering if that's true, if anybody knows. I know this reach pretty well, and I think it is a little bit too far to be able to visually see it, but I don't have that definitive answer personally. Right. I kind of walked around to see, but of course it's hard to tell because all the leaves, all the trees are greened out. In wintertime, the trees aren't going to provide the kind of buffering that I think that they were looking for here. So also, the trees that are shown on the side of the building look like they're as tall as the building itself, and I don't know how you're going to get trees that are going to be that tall in any short length of time. So those are my comments and concerns about that aspect. Thank you, Mark. Who else would like to go next? Carol? I also walked the site yesterday and went from well into the housing complex down to almost mission proper. My concern was, whoa, this is a massive building, a massive concrete building up against the creek, and what I discovered was there are actually other buildings, storage buildings, just as massive and just as close. I couldn't tell if the fencing along the creek was seven or eight foot. I seem to be very aware of fencing height now, and also that the adjacent neighborhood, to be quite honest, they didn't seem to have eyes on the creek either. I know it was a very hot day, but all of the shutters facing on the street in the creek were closed. If you had a house that adjoined the creek trail itself, you had a six foot fence. My whole goal of eyes on the creek has already been dismissed for this beautiful section of the creek, and here's a disclaimer. I grew up in Rincon Valley. I remember when this whole site was the walnut processing plant. It was old barns. It really was country, and it's not anymore. So I'm always going to throw my body in front of a large building up against the creek because of the precedent it may set, but this precedent has already been set in my opinion. Thank you, Carol. Who would like to go next? I'll go next. Go ahead, Kev. Evan, do you want to take it from here? Who is that? You are. I'm up. I'm up. Thank you. I appreciate the comments. I do think it's imposing the three stories right up against the creek. I'm looking at the setbacks here from the trail, 22 feet at minimum, I think, and 33 maximum. So there's a decent distance between the building and the trail. I do like the fact that the streamside drive has been extended, because that does give a little more people presence to the trail, which is always something I like to see. So I think, yeah, I'm always in favor of eyes on the creek. Anyway, we can promote that. I'd love to do so. But I see the economic reality of building housing is it makes a housing project so difficult. I understand having to cut over to the storage space. So I think it looks like a pretty well-defined project. It looks like the plant selection. I really like the pallet and the plants that are selected. To the extent we can go to natives and anything we can do to enhance the size of the creek, those would be my comments. Thanks. Thank you. Arc. Yeah, thanks. So I've got attachment 12 up, and I just want to point out that it's not updated. So it shows a proposed pathway going through the southern part of the property. But that pathway appears to already be there. And so I'm not really confident of what extends. I didn't get a chance to walk this site. It extends further out. But I think it's important that because these maps are very old, when there are changes that need to be delineated and shown for us. Most important to me is that there's eyes on the creek from the path. I mean, so this walkway is a beautiful walkway that faces the creek. The landscape plan has trees that eventually, in my opinion, grow to block the storage. And it just underscores that as we need more housing, we need more roads, we need more water, we need more garbage collection, and then we need more storage facilities. You know, I guess that's just the case. And so this is kind of part of the infrastructure of the community. So in the future, I think there has to be a confluence of drought resistant plants and native plants. And I'd like to see those things addressed when these are presented to us so we understand and fully delineated so we can comprehend which are which and how those were selected. I think it's a really important piece. Other than that, I'm fine with the project. Thank you. Through the chair, can I make a comment also? Just Art and your comment about the map itself. Yeah. That map is actually from the adopted plan. So they don't get updated as we build components of the creeks and the pathways. So it's really reflecting what was there at the time when the plan was adopted. So when we update it, which we hope to eventually then, of course, it'll be more, more fleshed out. I understood, Amy. And if I was doing, I don't want to offend anybody. But if I was doing this presentation, and I was presenting a map from 2013 where there were changes on it, then I would be pointing those out. Even though the map isn't updated. Well, guess what? This thing has already been installed. It's already there. So that's how I would do it if I was running. So that's what really my comment is. Great. Thank you. So I'd like to echo some of the concerns regarding the eyes on the creek. I must say I had anticipated when we reviewed this in the first place that a residential component would be a very positive thing in this area. As far as eyes on the creek go. And of course, that has been altered. But eyes on the creek is essential for any project. And I understand a storage facility has its limitations in terms of the importance of that. But still in the future, I think we need to continue to always advocate for that. The landscaping design is conceptual is probably even an exaggeration. But it would be nice to be able to have more definition as to what is anticipated. And the most job tolerant and native combination as art puts it would be really desirable for us to be able to consider. But it's always a little tough on the conceptual side because things are not formulated, but also it does give us an opportunity to influence what the final plan looks like. So anyway, other than that, I would support the project as I just hope that those other aspects are brought out, particularly the landscaping. And are there any other concluding comments by committee members? Carol? Not to beat non-native plants, but when we were all out at Cogan Creek, I specifically said, are there native plants, Steven? Art, I don't know if you got the handout, but there was a handout provided and pretty much everything they were planting. Steve, Brady, maybe it was everything. Not only was it native, but it was specifically called out for its butterfly and other pollinator components. Milkweed comes to mind. It was definitely done with that in mind. And I don't know if it was because it was a government project that it was leaned towards, but that definitely was something I would love to see in these presentations because it spells it out so succinctly. I am unfortunately in favor of this project. It seems to be in line with everything else that has happened along the far side of the Santa Rosa Creek. I guess we just need to turn our attention more heavily towards the creek itself and the land between the path and the creek and try and hold on to that. Thank you, Carol. I guess it brings up a question as to whether we need a more standardized list of plant species that would be those that would be most appropriate adjacent to creeks. Because there's a lot of ambiguity, not just this project, but it's that way in a lot of our reviews. Does anybody have any thought about that? We're really limited to what we have adopted as far as standards and guidelines. So I think you all have done a good job pointing out where those guidelines do exist. And I think what I've been hearing today from the committee members is there's a need to update them now that there's drought concerns kind of combined with those native plant issues. And that's not something that we will be doing in the near future. But I think it's good to be cognizant of. And I agree that it would be great to have a landscape architect as part of this group. And so I'll reiterate that to the chair of the design review board as they consider recommendation for someone joining. But so it is really up to you all on how you would like to comment on these projects coming through for you. But there won't be a lot of guidance as far as what's adopted to help those comments as far as pivots from what's already in our guidelines. Yeah, I understand. I'm just wondering, you know, even what they've used on a lower creek project would be potentially a something that might aid us in terms of knowing what the most appropriate plantings are. Of course, those are within the I realize those are within the creek. But it's still quite helpful. Yeah, I think that's an important comment because obviously we're learning as we go and there's different plants that may be more appropriate for different areas of the city. But I also appreciate Susie's comments about making sure that we have the landscape architect on the call to be able to reply to those questions and maybe give that greater context of other projects where things have been approved or what's working and what's not based on their experience. So we'll try to infuse more of that information for upcoming items. Thank you, Amy. I think we have Kevin wanting to make a comment. Yes, thanks just on that topic. Thanks, Amy, for your comments. I do see this this planting question as a long term question that that just we might let bounce around the back of our minds and and encourage it to bounce around the minds of city staff and elected officials. And the long term we might move to tweak that to tweak those policies that are in place, maybe to go to more native plants to incorporate that that native habitat that 30 years from now that'll make a big difference in the in the ecosystem and the the the health of the ecosystems within the city. But I I do think it's a it's a long term plan. And but I encourage us to to kind of keep that on the radar screen. And I appreciate all the comments here today in that regard. Thank you. Any comments? Yeah, one last comment. And I know staff is short handed. But so we're coming up on 10 years on our manual. It could be that we just need to do an amendment where we look at this confluence of drought and native plant species drought resistant. And if so, maybe this is something that we can start addressing and try to come up with maybe a two to three year plan to get an amendment in place where I'm looking on the credits of this original manual. And I see that Steve was Steve Ravanovich was on this originally, a lot of people are no longer have moved on. But I think it's something that we should look at whether we can take on and assist with on a longer term plan. And look at fencing as well. If I may, if we're going to do that, please Amy. So I just wanted to comment because I I totally agree. And so once we get through our general plan update, which we'll conclude next year, we will be assessing what other plans will need to be updated as a result of the general plan, which will create a new work program basically looking at our specific plans. We will be making code updates to the zoning code as part of the general plan update. But obviously there's a lot of other plans in place. And so part of that work program may include our Creek master plan. So we won't really be able to determine that until next year. And then of course, we update things based on available funding and council direction. So there in my mind, when we get through the general plan update next year, we will have to put out a prioritized list of what needs to get updated in what order. So we'll keep you updated on that. So stay tuned for that conversation because that will drive the next piece of when and how things will happen. Thank you. All right, sounds good. And any other last comments? Well, with that, I would like to yes. I'm sorry, I just want to I just want to confirm I heard a lot of comments. But as it relates to this project, what I'm hearing overwhelmingly from the board or the committee is that you would like I'm going to say a combo of drought tolerance slash native plants. I should say native slash drought tolerant plants on that that area that separates the creek path from the from the structure. There's a pretty heavy a plan to plant a lot of trees right there. That's kind of a real prime spot for trees. And I wanted to point out that the trees that are being selected there eventually will grow up to that big size. And they're never established when they go in, they have to mature. And as they do, they will cover up the face of or separate, they'll create a barrier between the building and the creek path. So but did I is that is that's primarily the response I'm hearing? I know there's some concern about the massing of the building adjacent to the creek path, but it's set back far enough and is what I'm hearing that you're not too concerned about that. I just want to make sure that I'm getting my notes right. Well, I will say that having had a valley oak in my backyard, they don't like being all right, you know, too close to each other. So I don't know. I think it's a something that this landscape experts would need to define. And I'm not sure we need a forest per se, but I understand the mitigation issue you brought. But I think it's kind of a balance of species. But that's just my take on it. Carol? Yes, Susie and Steve Brady, you can weigh in on this. In the native plant stipulation, if you could add pollinator, that's what the bees and the butterflies. And that should mean something to the landscape architects. Yes, Steve Brady? Yes, I think you could add that. Any other comments? Last, last comments. There's a lot to talk about here. Anybody that question was asked by Susie regarding the trees. Does anybody want to say anything more about what would be appropriate in terms of the, you know, that aspect? Yeah. Well, I guess since I raised the issue of those trees and the buffering ability, granted, you know, in a decade or two or three, the trees will be much larger, but they also lose their leaves in winter. So they don't provide a whole lot of buffering, if you will, or visual filtering of this looming wall, as I call it. So I also want to say just one more thing that I certainly appreciate and agree with all the comments on the need for housing. But in this case, we're not talking about housing anymore. We're talking about a big old block building to put a bunch of stuff into. And I'm starting to feel like maybe they're trying to cram more storage into that than the site should perhaps have. But that's just my opinion. You know, it's certainly not out of the ordinary in terms of other similar buildings. But we also have to look to the future and to evolving standards of how we want our natural areas to look and to function. Okay. Would you all like me to add pollinators and plants and evergreen in trees to consider some evergreen trees in that area that separates the path from the building? Yeah, that is one thing I didn't mean to mention. If you want to pick trees, non-dissiduous trees. Kevin. Just, Susie, in response to your question, I'm a big fan of valley oaks. And I suppose you can go to a coast live oak that doesn't lose its leaves. And that would be a native that still would provide that buffering that Mark is talking about. But either way, I think I really like the fact that those are two native species and that those are going to be a major part of this project. So I think that accomplishes a lot of what I was getting at and talking about native trees, providing that healthy ecosystem, space for birds, insects, etc. So I think the trees in this case are well selected in general. Yeah. Okay, gang. So Susie, is that enough clarity? You have given me what I need and I will take your comments forth. Thank you. And conquer. And with that, I'd like to close the meeting of the Waterways Advisory Committee in the name of Stan Gao, a wonderful, wonderful advocate for creeks and a wonderful, wonderful person. So thank you all. We'll be in touch. Thank you. Have a good week, everyone. Bye, everybody.