 This is one that I think, you know, makes sense 100% and it's LinkedIn. It's always working. It's very focused on a business mindset. The community of individuals that is there is there to do business. They show up every single day. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody. Welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams, alongside my co-host, Beth Popney-Glove. And today, we're going to be talking about social media specifically. How can you as a manufacturer get ROI from social media? It's a question we hear all the time. Frankly, we hear the question, should I even be on social media, which is crazy to even be asking that question today, but we understand there's a lot of opinions and maybe you haven't seen results. And so, we're trying to provide you a path forward on that today. It's always extra special for us when we get to bring in more Venbeo peeps to the podcast. So, to tackle this pretty hot topic, we have brought in our very own social media manager, Ashley Stevenson. She has an incredible passion for social media. We are going to do our very best to get through everything that we want to discuss here. But if you ever want to grab a cocktail, if you see her at a trade show, just get ready because girl is going to let it roll when it comes to social media. Ashley, thank you so much for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me. And I'm not sure how I can even follow that up with the grab the cocktail and let it roll. I totally will, but it will be on point and specific to today's topic. I know it's been a pleasure working for Venbeo and working with our building material clients over the past year and a half and really excited to share some of the pieces that we've learned, what we're seeing, trends, that kind of thing that can be helpful for everybody. And I think for context, just for our listeners, Ashley oversees our entire social media team. Yeah. So she has, I think, a really good breadth of knowledge of what's happening across all major platforms, no longer Clubhouse. We were talking about that before the show. RIP Clubhouse. No, but I think we're really excited to have you on the show, Ashley, because you've seen manufacturers go from literally zero to tens of thousands of followers and understand what it takes to get there and then ultimately what's that return. And so for our listeners, why don't you just give us a little bit of insight into who you are real quickly, and then we'll dive into the content that we want to share with everybody. Sure. Absolutely. So I've been in the social media marketing space since Facebook started. Literally, that's exactly when I started doing marketing. So I grew with each one of the platforms as they developed and as they launched. It's part of my DNA and I just can't chase it away. It's just there. So when Ben says I'm super passionate, it's because I know where those bare bones beginnings came from. And I'm excited for where they are now. But yes, every single one of those platforms can get better and what we can do on them can also get better. So we'll be able to see, as Zach just mentioned, we saw building materials companies and our clients in general that we've seen them go from small number of followings and small numbers of engagement to now creating and cultivating conversations and expanding that brand awareness so much. And not to say that 2020 was the reason that it happened, but it definitely was the ingredient in that recipe that spiced it up. Definitely was what made it bigger. It was what made it most important. It was what made it a factor that they couldn't deny or get away from. They had to be there because they weren't able to communicate in any other way with their customers. That's great. And I think for our listeners today, our goal is to help you understand the ROI of social media. But more specifically, how do you actually get it? Like there is a lot of ROI there, but we hear questions and Beth can speak to this, but we hear questions all the time about like, well, should I even do it? Should I be on this platform? So let's dive in and break that down for our listeners. One question we hear often is, well, what platforms are working? And so I point that question to you, Ashley, like what platforms are working today? And that might be a loaded question. But what do you see as the platforms have opportunity for manufacturers? Okay. So, and this, this is one that I think, you know, makes sense 100%. And it's LinkedIn, it's always working. It's, it's very focused on a business mindset, the community of individuals that is there is there to do business. They show up every single day, you're not surprised by anything that they post or who they are. Whereas on other platforms, it's, it can be surprising or there can be comments that come in there. I have noticed in general from LinkedIn perspective that the spam comments aren't there, negative hate comments aren't there as you might see on other platforms. So for a brand or business that knows 100% they need to be on social media, LinkedIn is the one that you can safely get there. You can see growth, you can see interaction. And for this, this climate that we're going through with hiring and employment crisis, everyone in that space wants to learn more about not just what that brand sells, but how you can work for them, who works for them, what does that entire interaction look like? Because I have the time now, I'm online all day long, and I'm not going anywhere else. I just want to learn and research and investigate as much about you as I can. I would say probably two years ago, someone might not be as knowledgeable as about a brand as they are today. They have done so much research. When you research a car, okay, you have looked at so many, you know, every single thing that you want. Now we do that with soap. We do that with jeans. We do that with absolutely every single piece of material that we purchase because we have the time to learn about it and care about it and then share about it. And I think that's what's really important for that space. LinkedIn especially because you get this CEO thought leadership opportunity. You have the salesperson. You have your marketing person. You have your employees on the space that then continue to share and expand that conversation past you. So it's that third-party recognition. It's that we're a community. We speak the same language. We share the same language. We care about the same things. And that's why I think LinkedIn consistently over, even through 2020, regardless, continue to grow and nurture customers and brands. What do you think about LinkedIn in reference to manufacturers that only target the product? Let's say I make a tool or I make a fastener or something like that. Is it still a good platform or is it like, I look at like those kinds of brands. I'm like, oh, that's a really good for like Instagram, Facebook, because that's where those audiences play. Do you think LinkedIn is right for everybody? I think LinkedIn is right for everybody to have actual visibility. Do I think that they need to be spending hours and hours and hours a month on it? No. I think if, for example, the fastener, if you know that your pro is wanting some sort of installation or wants a guide, that is a very visual piece and component where LinkedIn is not super focused on the visual. You'll see a lot of long copy, a lot of long caption. You'll see articles, it's news. Someone is there to read. Whereas with Instagram or YouTube, you'll see that that is based off of a visual consumption piece and they're wanting to learn something very quickly. So depending upon who your audience, your your key vertical, whatever that might be, if you know that they are wanting to learn something very quickly, I don't know if I would focus on it for LinkedIn. LinkedIn is going to be more of the, we've done the business plan. We've rolled out the strategy. We have got all of the pieces. We are telling our entire story together, whereas Instagram is, it's the trailer of the movie. That's a great analogy. So actually, I think one thing people say, which they kindly don't really always say out loud to us, but is definitely in the back of their minds is why do I need strategy? I have an intern who totally gets social media. Maybe I have an intern that I can hardly get off of their phone to like do the stuff that we want them to do. Why do I need to think about this? And I don't mean that rude or derogatory, there's parts of it that are very intuitive. But why do I need to actually invest instead of just post? Right. And I think that's always been a question, even when they first launched. So I don't think that question has ever changed. And I think the response and the answer is always strategy is not just what to post and when to post it who it's who we're talking to, what they care about. Is it going to help your business at the end of the day? What are the goals that are involved? It's an entire, I'm not going to say a formula, but there are multiple pieces that go into it. It's not just I'm going to post a picture on Monday, I'm going to do a video on Wednesday. And on Friday, I'm going to do a third party article. That's not strategy. That is, I mean, that's just picking out an ingredient of what you're going to post. It's not talking about why it's there. It's looking at your traffic. It's looking at when your viewers, your followers are on more often. Is it at night at 6 p.m.? You know, what topic typically got you the most direct messages? What was the main post that regardless has continued to circulate and continued to actually grow even if it was posted months ago? That was what made sense. Do more of that piece instead of circling just regular content. I think that's a good point because one thing social media can provide you is understanding what your audience thinks is insightful and valuable. Like you're in this box, you're in this bubble, and you're like, hey, this product is our best product, and this is our best photo, or this is our best XYZ. The thing that social media does is it provides you real time insight into what your audience and customers are not only saying about you, but what is important to them? What are you not talking about that you need to be? So it's not just about the content that you're creating, but if you're present in the spaces that they're spending time, you're going to have real time market insights and research that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get access to. I'm curious to get your perspective as well, Ashley, on if we talk about real quickly, I want you to touch on Facebook and Instagram because that's where a lot of people spend time. What are you seeing in reference to those channels? Are they dead? Are they growing? How difficult is it for me to see growth? Can you answer those four questions in 60 seconds? Absolutely. So Facebook, I think it's one of those situations where groups are big. Everyone has kind of cultivated or moved towards based off of what they care about versus, I'm just going to read every single person I'm connected to post in my feed. People are not digesting Facebook the way that they used to digest it. Now because it's an older platform, it's been there for so long, there's this expectation of I'm not doing Facebook circa 2010. I'm doing it 2021 and this is what I care about. I just want to see if this group is meeting what's happening here, whose birthday it is, what events are happening this weekend and then I'm off. And then when it comes to Instagram, I would say that brands are having a difficult time trying to hop on the reels trend because they feel like they need to be playful or to be cute or to copy another brand and you don't have to. Reels are a great way for you to have reach and get in front of a lot of eyeballs. It's the most similar to TikTok, which we know has kind of blown up in certain spaces, but if you already have an Instagram presence and you have videos and you have visuals and you have guides, then stay on Instagram and you can convert and do something similar with reels. You can utilize the text, the graphics that come through. You don't have to do the weird trends that is a makeup design. That's not what we're talking about. Ashley, who do you think is doing it well? If you think about manufacturers out there, not just reels, but who's doing a good job on social media, you look at and you're like, okay, these guys are at the top of their game. Everyone has opportunity to improve, but you look at them and you're like, okay, these guys are somebody I would pull inspiration from the form of manufacturer trying to aspire to do better. Sure. No, I think that's a fair question. And I think in order for you to be doing well on the platform, it's not just reels. Like you said, it's utilizing all of the opportunities that are available. And Cambria Quartz, it's Cambria services on Instagram, but they're not just utilizing the feed posts. They're utilizing IGTV. They're doing reels, but they are also focusing on guides, which is an amazing piece that was rolled out from Instagram where you can, it's very similar to Pinterest where you can create and compartmentalize boards and specific information. So if you have someone who's wanting to go and learn something very specific, they can go to the guide section and they can immediately go to a curated feed of those posts about all of those posts. So you're making it easier for someone to find out information about a specific product. It's a manufacturer. It's how to install something. It's, you know, where can I find this fastener? There's an entire space inside Instagram called guides that gives you that opportunity. So Cambria really does a great job of utilizing the entire platform really well. And it's because they understand what's working for them. Everything is really beautiful, high visual. Everything tells story. I'm not confused about who they are. I know exactly who they are, what they're doing and what their niche is, what the market is, what they're trying to offer to me. I know who they are. And I think that that's why they do really well. There's another thing that I would mention about Cambria, of course, which we talk about them from time to time. They're my manufacturer, Crash. We love what they do on marketing. So a lot of questions that we get from manufacturers, and this is across the board from marketing, but it specifically comes up in social media, is how do I speak to my audience? I target architects and contractors and builders and building owners and homeowners and dealers and distributors, like I'm talking to everybody. Who am I talking to on social media? And just like a quick scan through Cambria Quartz's Instagram will show you how they're accomplishing that. And it's basically like there's really beautiful inspiration that's absolutely directed towards designers and architects and homeowners. And then they have guys unloading their track that is targeted towards contractors. And then they talk in detail with other interior designers about the specification process and the inspiration process that's really targeted towards the professional architect and interior designer that homeowners are going to think is interesting because they're interested in things like that, but it's not content made for them. And I think that's an important piece, frankly, again, whether you're talking about your email, your website or your social media, to not try to speak to everybody at every moment in every sentence, but it's okay that this one post is not going to be interesting to contractors. And this other post is not going to be interesting to homeowners because you're tailoring for the individual audience and not to get too into the weeds here, but that's actually where algorithms do come into play on social media platforms. Instagram is smart enough to know what contractors are going to find interesting and not based on the content that they're engaging with on a regular basis. And that goes for everybody, right? So not to get caught up in the, oh, but this doesn't appeal to XYZ. This doesn't appeal to this other person. We've got to be all things to all people at all moments. That's when things get cloudy and frankly generic, because then you just resort to the lowest common denominator, which is your products. And that's not interesting for anybody. It's sex. It's just made the best crunched up face. So let's give it, let's talk about ROI, okay? Which is what we all want. Let's break down, Ashley, if I can put you on the spot. If I'm a manufacturer, let's say I have some social media presences, maybe I'm on a few that you've mentioned. What do I need? What strategy do I need to implement? What assets do I need to start to see ROI? And what does that look like? What does the strategy look like? What are my resources? What does my team look like in order to see that if you're going to distill it down and give me that advice? Sure. So when we work with a client, we do a couple of exercises. We break down and we do a defining brand's conversation where we're understanding who your audience is. We're understanding what you want to talk about as far as consumers, products, placement, who's purchasing it, how it's being used, who's installing, if you're wanting to create pieces for a specific audience, but then other individuals are going to enjoy it as well. What can be used across the board? What's a safe space? What's a safe zone of content that everyone will get around versus what are your highlighted levels that are very specific to certain audiences? We'll talk about defining those pieces. Then we talk about defining a voice and a tone. We talk about how that will be relatable or it will be conversational and knowledgeable if it will be playful and intriguing. We're not saying go out and be Wendy's Twitter, but we're saying that you can have a sense of humor, and I think because human beings do. So making sure that whatever is in the voice also sounds human. It doesn't sound like a robot. It needs to sound like it's human conversation, human connection that's happening with the humans on the platforms that are actually reading it and doing all of those things. So understanding that's all part of setting up and figuring out what this return on investment could be. Sometimes the return on investment is for them just to even understand who's watching them. Who's actually buying from me? Like I'm making things, but I don't know who's actually going there. The return on investment I think can be multiple things. It can be I want to increase brand awareness and brand awareness can be increased not only in followers, but in engagement overall. The sharing of the brand, the talking of the brand, the positive sentiment that exists online about the brand. So social listening is very important as a component in this piece for return on investment. If you're trying to get away from something that happened a couple of years ago and really change how people feel about the brand, that could be what they care about most. It can be we want to drive traffic to a landing page to a sample pack that we're trying to sell or to get to customers to really order. That could be a part of what is their return on investment. So identifying first, defining the brand, defining the voice, defining what assets are available and who that all speaks to. Then we can start charting out, okay, what is this timeline looks like? How frequently could we post? How frequently could we have engagement and conversation? Is that going to involve any giveaways? Is it going to have any contests? Are we going to be utilizing any other individuals in this space? Is it going to come from customers? Is that where we're going to get the bulk of our imagery? Especially from an interior designer perspective, an architects are 100% all about sharing on Instagram and tagging their products that they used 100%. So a great way to give back and have more return is to continue to layer on and reshare those projects that were used with those products. So, Zach, it's not an easy question. It's not. I know it's loaded. Can I say something controversial about ROI on social media? Yes. I think people who question the ROI of social media, and I mean companies not like the individuals within companies who are questioning the ROI of social media are the individuals who have not spent any time on the back end of their platforms because the questions that are coming in either on the posts that are being shared or specifically through the messaging applications within Facebook Messenger, Instagram Messenger, LinkedIn Messenger, they are bottom of the funnel questions. What color is that? Can I get that in my area? Who can I talk to you about this? I have a project coming up. I'd like to talk to somebody. It is actually like transactionally based. So because we're in the B2B world, because we're in building materials, we don't get that very clean B2C X equals Y ROI scenario. What is that life like? What is that life even like? I posted this and 17 people bought it. What is that life like? Right. So we don't live in that clean data world from an ROI for sales, but if you have questions about the ROI of your social media, I encourage you to speak to your marketing team. I encourage you to speak to your social media team. And if they're not getting questions about your products on a regular basis, then that's what I would start with the strategy. But it's very clean and simple. Like those questions, those engagements, those conversations are happening. Well, Beth, can I piggyback off of that? I think you're 100% right. And I would also argue, you know, you are. The other thing too is like, when we interview a contractor, an architect, a designer, a GC, ask them how they find out about products, and then ask them how they validate the decisions. And are they ever questioning it? Like, they're never being like, it was really odd that this waterproofing company was on Facebook. Like that's never, that's never a question that you hear from the channel. It's only a question that you hear from manufacturers. Well, yeah, I mean, like, we talked to a contractor and like, hey, how do you hear about products? How do you validate? And they're like, oh, well, I just DM my friends on Instagram or I talk to them on this Facebook group. And so if you're a manufacturer and you're not online, you are actually hurting the ability for that conversation to actually happen. So if you want people talking about you, and frankly, that's hard to measure. Like, actually, that's really hard to measure a private conversation. Like it's just not hard to measure. It's impossible, you know, but what it does for you is you are showing up to the game. Like if you think about the 1950s, it's like asking, well, should I be in newspaper or print advertising? Of course you should. Because that's where eyeballs, that's where time, that's where people are spending time. People are spending time on social media. Like if you go and go and Google, you know, how much time is being spent on social media, and you're going to see charts that are going up to the right. Like people are spending more and more time on social media. It's where it's what's consuming our, you know, our entertainment, our education. And if you're manufacturing, you're trying to make sure that you're in those conversations, and you're positioning yourself the right way, and you're positioning yourself as forward thinking, you've got to be in those places. And you also have to be uncomfortable, excuse me, comfortable with the uncomfortable, which is you may not be able to actually measure every single conversation, but it is happening, right? Well, and I would say, I don't want to belabor the point, but I would say you would never question the value of word of mouth recommendations. You would never question that value. Social media is the same. Zach, you and I were talking with a roofing manufacturer this week who said we were like, what's the best way for you to sell roofs? And they said, install a roof in a neighborhood. If we install one roof, we will install 50. It's the first one. That's the most difficult. So that social media is the one roof. Social media is the neighborhood. If you use, if I see my friend post an image, or I see an architectural designer that I follow, which every like all homeowner's fellow designers, if I see them post an image of this beautiful roof, I want to know what's the roof? What color did you get? Where did you get it? How was it? What was your experience like? We just need to reframe our own perception of what conversation looks like. You're saying it exactly right. It's always been difficult to quantify those one-on-one, you know, neighbor over offense conversations, but it's never been questioned that that was valuable. Those conversations have simply just moved online. Agreed. Ashley, this has been great. Thank you for letting us pick your brain. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah. And for those of you that don't know, Ashley, Beth is absolutely right. Like she is, gosh, she just knows so much about this space and we're so thankful that she's on our team leading our social media efforts. So Ashley, thank you again for coming on. Thanks for having me. It was a blast, guys. For listeners, if you like this content, make sure you go to venvio.com slash podcast to subscribe and get more of it. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams alongside Beth Nikolaev. Thanks, everybody.