 I think we could continue with the... No, you don't have to serve us the dance show if you don't want to. And you don't have to share a fairy story either. But I think we have questions in this audience, and I have my mic guy here. So how this happens is that you wave your hand and you state your name and where you're from and your question. So we have Johanna there and then here and then here. Hi, my name is Johanna. I work mostly in Sweden, let's just say. I'm a woman who writes in public and appears in public. And I've been incredibly blessed by basically not ever being attacked, even when there would have been perhaps in the minds of this group recent too. And even at this moment, as I say this out loud, and I know this is being streamed, I'm terrified that that in itself will make me a target. And every time, I'm sorry I'm going to cry now, but every time I publish something or every time I go to a live event, I'm afraid. And I shouldn't have asked for the word now, but how do we deal with this? What can you tell us? Because you guys are so brave. How do we... How can you give us some of your braveness? Thank you. Do you want to take that? Yeah. All right, so I think that's an appropriate response. It's really, really important to keep going and to tell everybody, especially women, that it is possible to keep putting yourself out there. I mean, I admire Kate and Anita for carrying on doing what you're doing. I actually find that spite is a really, really good interim measure, like emotional triage. Sometimes when I'm thinking, you know, I just can't cope with this anymore, I find that just thinking that if I move out of these spaces, then they win. You know, it's because the choice to leave and the choice to not engage is a choice to let the people who don't want women there win, which is one reason that we've got to stay, but just saying that I think sounds a lot easier than it is on a day-to-day basis, right? Yeah, thank you for your courage in sharing that. I totally agree with all that, and I would say, on a really practical level, having support in your everyday life that's not online is really important in dealing with any level of harassment, whether it's a cyber mob or a couple of hateful comments, which I think are just as horrific, and having people who understand and can be there for you or creating a community of people that can support you, I think has been absolutely crucial for me in being able to maintain doing the work I'm doing. And do you want to add? Yeah, just social change is never easily won, right? Our mothers or the people who are in the generation before me, they dealt with incredible obstacles, I mean, even just in their jobs on a day-to-day basis. I mean, at least we're able to have this conversation on a societal basis. I mean, in previous generations, it wasn't really talked about, and anyone who talked about it was considered to be ridiculous. I mean, there is change happening. We are able to stand up here and have this conversation, and there's this amazing audience who's interested in engaging in this. So I think we just kind of, as these other two ladies said, keep fighting the good fight, because we can't... If we give up, then, yeah, we're never getting anywhere. Thank you, and I want to just squeeze in one more question, and we have in the end. Hi, my name is Brits Dexton. Thank you so much, and thank you, Johanna, as well. We had in Sweden an incident called the Instagram Riots, which was actually a site where they pointed out mostly young women, but also young guys from a school in Gothenburg. And I was sent down there to talk to students and teachers about what happened and giving them support. I'm just going to say, because we have sort of time with you. And what happened there is that all those young women that you met there that had given up, they were not even the ones on the site, but they had given up because they said, that's how it is. The net is full of crap. We don't use it. They use it for one-to-one communication, but not for what Lori was speaking about, those really important aspects of the net. How shall we address that, as well, when you give up? Thank you. So one thing that reminds me of that I didn't get time to talk about is that not every woman who is targeted has the ability to share what's happening to them. That it is very risky to come out and talk about it publicly and that it's okay for women to not publicly talk about it when they feel unsafe, professional lives, that sort of thing. I think that we need to create a space, and I think part of the work that we do is about making it safer for women to speak up and creating a space where the next woman who speaks about it will be taken seriously. And so I think that it's about a larger cultural shift in both the structures of online and our societies to say, to encourage young women to continue to participate and to support them through that. Do you want to add? Yeah, it's really, really on us, and I think specifically as people who engage a lot online to support young people coming up because it's a very, very fraught time right now, but I would say that there are a lot of young women who either have given up or who have not yet found their voice and come into their power, but I am constantly stunned by the bravery of the young people who get in touch with me and the young people I meet, for example, at schools. In the UK recently, a 17-year-old girl set up a feminist society at her school was subject to an unbelievable amount of online racist and misogynist harassment. The response of the school was that we'll be talking to our young women about how better to protect themselves online in the future. Exactly, right? And the school thought that this was fine. But that society is still going. Those young women are still out there making their projects, sharing their stories, and I think something really is changing. I mean, I speak a lot about... I don't just speak about women's right to speak. When we've done the work of creating that space, you have to find things to say about it. And one of the things that's really, really important is the solidarity that's built there. There's something very, very hopeful and inspiring going on right now, but it's really, really important to support it. I think we have time for one more question, or...? Mm-hmm. I think you were actually first, so we do that. Yeah, hi. My name is Andrea. Thank you a lot. I've never been so close to tears in a conference before. Thanks, Johanna, as well. I wanted to actually ask, primarily, Anita, about the concept of revenge and how you deal with not being the better woman. Because in these kind of cases, and you said that some of the men used the real name, the real workplace, blah, blah, blah. There would be ways of you attacking them, outing them for their family, blah, blah, blah. And that would be totally legitimate in a way, I think, if they've sent you a rape threat or something. So how do you deal with not sinking to their level? Right. So the guy who made the game to beat me up was outed, and we know who he is and he's been confronted. Part of the way that I decided to deal with this is to not focus on any individual, because this is not about individuals. This is about systemic misogyny and online harassment as a larger institution, that's as something that is tolerated, if not accepted online. And so I really wanted to keep the focus on a larger systemic structures and how we need to change those, as opposed to saying this one person did this bad thing or just outing a couple of people. I don't think that that's how we're going to... I don't think that that's wrong to do. I just think that we need to... I like to keep things focused on the larger systems of what's happening in order to make real change across the board. May I come back on that quickly? Yeah. I think we've got to wrap up. So I actually slightly disagree in terms of outing people. I think maybe I needed just the nicer person than I am. No, I don't think it's okay to out people. I think it's okay to out people. I just didn't personally do it. Oh, no, no. But in the UK, recently, there have been a couple of cases where high-profile trolls and people who attack women have been publicly outed and have faced social consequences for that. One of the things that happens when that occurs is that men and boys suddenly understand that there are social costs as well as social rewards to engaging in this kind of misogynistic gameplay. The response to that, I'm wrapping up, has always been, well, you're attacking men's freedom of speech. Oh, my God, you can't shut people down. This is awful. All this freedom of speech stuff fails to understand that the clear and present threat to freedom of speech is to the freedom of speech of women, girls, and queer people online right now. The problem that we're facing is clearly a freedom of speech issue. And anybody who cares about keeping the internet free should care about this as a matter of priority. I think that's a good way to end this conversation that...