 Everybody welcome digital asset news. My name is Robin today What I want to talk about was the different alternatives that are out there for us as far as crypto projects there's one that's caught a lot of people's attention, especially my own it's cosmos and I don't have a very wide depth of knowledge of the ecosystem and things that are going on So I invited a couple people that do crypto seat to one of my rights and also friend of the show Jerry Hall gentlemen Thanks for coming by the show Cheers, thanks for having us. Yes Absolutely, so we're just gonna go over this very very basic now Jerry you've been on the show many a time everybody loves Jerry He's got a great patreon. Of course you guys can can check that out But the question that of course we have to ask is of course Jerry We know you but who is crypto CTO and how did he get into? The crypto world next one is why cosmos what is cosmos and what gives it the absolute edge? Because there's so many different things that are out there between layer zeroes and layer ones Then the one that brought me to the attention was there's a specific video and I linked the description so you guys can check it out It's the cosmos Adam predictions for 2023 and he talked about people who are staking on cosmos will also get additional Tokens that are built on top of cosmos itself So I thought find a fascinating if you could elaborate on that and lastly How difficult is cosmos to use and what is the user interface like and that'll be for both you to go over? So the first thing's first CTO Who are you? crypto I mean I got into it Sometime like early 2017 it could just cross the thousand dollars after a couple years again And I was studying that time. I studied economics and Chinese actually I'm on the ring At the time I just got hooked of the idea that you know what Bitcoin was But it forced me to learn what money is So By by studying bitcoin. I really understood how central banks work for the first time like I went to school before of course But I never learned how money works how central banks work. Yeah, that got me really hooked and Yeah, then in my exchange here in china I really got to meet a lot of you know the crypto developers builders Became part of the community there started doing events there more community oriented just try to absorb as much as I could And then you know, obviously a 2017 bull run Made a lot of money lost everything in 2018 like probably most of us And then sometimes like when covid started Early 2020 I just thought you know, I could just start a youtube channel share some of the experiences I made in that journey to help people avoid making those mistakes and then Sometime in early 2021 just before IBC went live. I discovered cosmos Maybe we can talk about why cosmos and what it is later on But it got me really hooked this idea, you know of multi-chain or interchain, which is actually what cosmos pioneered Also, this idea that bitcoin is not going to be the only one that kills and you know, it dominates everything There's going to be variations different niches different use cases And since then pretty much Focus on cosmos even though i'm still Very open to other ecosystems as well. But yeah, that's the that makes sense That sounds like a pretty good story just like like me and jerry had 2017 got into it Felt like, uh, of course geniuses wrote it all the way up wrote it all the way down 99 95 or plus. Remember those days jerry? Uh-huh. Oh, you bet That's it. So the so the next question will be like this Why cosmos what is cosmos and what gives the edge? I'm going to start with with jerry here because jerry is the one that introduced me to it And I had heard rumblings of how good cosmos was and what was going on But I wanted just to get so jerry Because what brought you to cosmos and enough to bring me into it? And then we'll we'll take a listen to crypto sito is the why he he got in there Well, the what brought me to cosmos in the beginning was the age old investor adage If you're going to own something have it pay you to own it, right? Earn interest on it get a dividend on it have it pay you rent if it's a piece of land. What have you, right? And I was thumbing through yield coins, you know, I was used to getting my 4% with kardana When that was wonderful, you know yield to just come to crypto with the advent of proof of stake protocols And I was looking on believe it or not of all places kraken and I saw this token called kava for 20% and I went I'm getting 5% for my kardano This thing will pay me 20 and that was my entry into the cosmos verse Because at this time ibc had already been happening the inter blotching communication protocol And that led me down the rabbit hole of looking into this what they call the map of zones where you can see All the projects that are in the cosmos verse and I started seeing projects that had real-world applications But they were on the blockchain and the first thing I thought of was How uber disrupted taxis how air bnb disrupted hotels i'm seeing vpn companies in the cosmos verse called sentinel. I'm seeing cloud computing blockchain companies like akash Most recently we've got jackal which is a cloud storage You know megabytes gigabytes terabytes storage on blockchain companies. These are real world services that being done on the blockchain presents a cheaper better harder faster product to the end user I'm thinking There's a pretty good chance that some of this stuff could catch on So as an investor As an early investor to buy some of these tokens and then stake them I'm dollar cost averaging these coins for the rest of time with no further dollar investment That is smart investing if something were to take off, right? The other stuff For me white cosmos the nfts defy and really innovative community stuff like for instance, there's A company a little validation company All they do is validators for these proof of stake companies proof of stake blockchains. I'm sorry They created a software called restake That will automatically auto compound my stake and rewards for me. I don't have to spend any money on fees Doing it. I don't have to do anything I sign a one-year smart contract and walk away and let that auto compound And we all know the value of compounding interest, right? What did what did Einstein say? Eighth wonder of the world That's it. So so it was a combination of number to go up And also a lot of utility a lot of things that are being built in the background, right? Well, I mean, does does vpn have anything to do with what we generally speculate in crypto? No cloud computing no cloud storage no However, there are real businesses building real products in those verticals in the blockchain space and you can pick up ownership interest i.e coins at pennies Literally pennies. Yeah, who knows what they'll be in the future, right? Yeah, so this will so the compounding you can literally turn $50 one-time investment Into hundreds of thousands of dollars five years from now if you follow any kind of logical math if it gets adoption Well, jerry, I hope you're right. So that would lead me to to sito So so my man We heard jerry's reasoning numbers go up Real utility things are going on. How do you see it? What brought you into cosmos and what gives it the edge in your opinion because your whole channel Is built around that premise Yeah, first of all, I love jerry's passion on cosmos and I would echo a lot of what he said regards to the ecosystem I think cosmos actually is a mix of like a lot of innovative infrastructure, right? You have tendermen, which is one of the first maybe the first actual proof-of-stake consensus algorithms in production Jake Juan the inventor has been working on this 2014 right right way ahead of its time You have ibc right is interoperability standard or tcpi qpa equivalent So you have all these innovative features For the for the infrastructure in cosmos, but at the same time like jerry said you have a lot of like Real-world use cases, right? I would add also region network to that They're building a carbon credit marketplace Really cool stuff and that's also like already years in the works, right? um, so you have a lot of cool stuff But what got me like interested in the first place was from more from an ideological perspective because when I started my channel You know, there was a time when we were just You know at the bottom everything was super bearish People were pretty much bitcoin maxis left and right I'm sure you remember these times in early 2020 Everything else was a scam, but I always thought that Bitcoin is not going to you know, dominate everything So I was always interested in other ecosystems But sure there was a lot of disappointment, right? For example, iota right us Even cardinal right like they have been in the works for so many years um, cardinal is still probably doing well, but like if you take if you look at the us and Some of the others that are not really operating anymore. Nem Neo Mem The big east killers from 2017 18, right? I understand why people would say, okay. I'm only looking into bitcoin right now. Everything else is a scam But it's an evolution. That's how I see crypto and I think if you look into The people the amount of smart people That are building in cosmos and also the mutual respect between cosmos developers and the theorem developers or even parity developers um That's really some a solid foundation on on which cosmos is built on and I felt that personally right like when I started to cover cosmos I didn't have many followers But core developers still took the time to get on calls with me explain to me what IBC was um, and the first one was actually jack sample in who is a core cosmos developer Super helpful in you know community questions very very, um nice guy And um, he educated me first on cosmos and from there I just continued doing my homework and I also had this idea to just say hey, I don't want to Spread myself to thin and cover everything at once. I rather want to be an expert in one ecosystem Um and go down that rabbit hole really deep and then obviously with you know, IBC adoption um even today like There's so many projects. I don't even know because like this ecosystem is growing so fast, you know and um within cosmos So Yeah, it's uh, it's been a good journey, but I would say ideological perspective is really Important to me this multi-chain future. We're not the east killer. We're probably helping to also add value to east um, and also the the diversity of the ecosystem, right? And of course also the the app chain philosophy Which cosmos actually pioneered and it connected through IBC That really makes a lot of sense to me from an architectural standpoint. So yeah Yeah, I can see it now. We're just taking a look here at uh cosmos dot network The ecosystem itself and the apps that are being built on I saw that Binance chain looks like they use a couple of different Fundamentals from cosmos to build their chain. I know I think it's crypto.com. I think was built Crow was built on cosmos and I believe that and make make fun of you or not if you watch the video, but You know, we had anchor protocol and luna Even though as much as transactions as they had I mean barring everything that happened wasn't weren't they also built within cosmos in the ecosystem So terra was the flagship cosmos project In terms of market cap They were by far the biggest one and the fact that they actually collapsed and went to zero overnight But it didn't affect atom. It didn't affect osmo in terms of operations Actually approved the whole app chain thesis at least But yeah, you're right terra was a big one Both bnb and polygon as well actually built on their own versions of tendermint. So they forked tendermint You know their chains are running on that Tor chain as well, even though they don't have IBC. It's also built on the cosmos sdk So you have a lot of undercover cosmos projects, right? But that's probably also it has been a bit of a criticism over the over the past years That cosmos doesn't have aggressive marketing But I think now you can see that we have a lot of organic marketing and I think that's more sustainable But yeah, I think cosmos in general could do a better job as an ecosystem and we as a community To you know Do more stuff like this right now and I'm glad you reached out to us and hey, let's talk about cosmos Because the word really needs to get out there to to onboard new users and developers. Um, but yeah, I think People are when they start doing their research that actually surprised how much it's actually built on cosmos Yeah, it was I mean honestly, it was surprising to me and I always you know We always hear the the same tone which is everything is built on ethereum So just you know getting that layer one But we take a look at cosmos There's a lot of being a lot of things being built on there and I didn't know anything about this until jerry Reached out with me go hey need to watch this video and there's one from you But and then I watched a couple and one that was that struck me is quite interesting Is this this latest video you did your cosmos predictions for 2023? Which everybody loves prediction video as for sure But on one of these things that you said on top of many things was you said because of all the different All the different chains that are being built on cosmos when we stake in cosmos We actually can earn these other Chains these other projects either tokens So talk to us about that and what and just elaborate a little bit about What's going on there? Yeah, so I think in general it's important to understand how what cosmos actually is right now cosmos is not Cosmos as an ecosystem is not a layer zero. It's often labeled as that But cosmos is actually just a network of sovereign layer ones, right? So you have this app chain philosophy, which I said earlier Which basically means that you say hey, I have this cool idea jerry mentioned a couple of them, right? Like I want to do computing. I would do storage. I want to do a bpn. I want to build a dex Instead of having that as a smart contract on a layer one like ethereum solana You have it you you give it basically its own chain, right? So now it's not a smart contract It's basically its own sovereign blockchain with its own validator set And how do you scale and make it compatible to other ecosystem or to other chains within that ecosystem? That's where ibc comes in. So that's the whole philosophy And the the goal behind that is to have more customizability scalability Um and and sovereignty, right? Um, and you also decongest the main layer, right? And you also take the dependencies on the main layer, right? We've seen for example on solana whenever solana went down everything on solana went down everything. Yeah That's the thing and you know an ethereum obviously if if something goes big like cryptokitties in 2017 It just compares the entire chain, right? Right. So So yeah, that that's the thing and then um Yeah, I think For this year right now, I think cosmos is in a very uh good spot to actually showcase that the app chain philosophy and the cosmos hub which is oftentimes um misperceived as cosmos hub and atom is cosmos The cosmos hub and atom are actually just a competitive Layer one within cosmos, right? Atom is not a layer zero atom is just an l1 competing with any other Chain in cosmos But it's the oldest chain the first one the first, you know the chain that brought ibc to life um But it still needs to find it's it's killer application To be also competitive not just within cosmos, but also with the ethereum's with the solanas with the avalanches Out there, right? So what's coming now is what I believe is that killer application Which is a um shared security model? That is um tailored to cosmos and it's called interchange security I think they even renamed it now to a replicated security But it does that as just details what it does it allows you to bootstrap your own chain Without having to bootstrap your own validator set, which can be Honestly time consuming a big effort, right? We see projects like dydx that already have a lot of traction That decided to now build their own cosmos chain They will do that but smaller projects That might not want to build their own chain for that They can just launch on the cosmos hub and what it will do is Cosmos hub validators will also validate blocks on that chain on that so-called consumer zone There's actually a model. It's quite similar to how power chains work on polkadot or kusama Right, right, right. So that is coming through the cosmos hub And what it will mean for stakers and validators is that All these chains that will pack to the cosmos hub and rent security from it They obviously have to like somehow pay for it, right? In kusama, you have this this auction model in cosmos. It's going to be through unchain governance And then part of the token inflation or emission will go to atom stakers, right? So you stake atom you get neutron, which is one of the confirmed consumer chains that will come to the cosmos hub Which is built by the team that also built lido for example, right? Like they're even like big names that are coming to use shared security You have liquid staking protocols like stride You have usdc native issuance So circle is actually going to build a consumer chain Packed to the cosmos hub. So imagine you just stake atom and you get all these coins for staking atom, right? So, yeah, I mean there was probably a bit of a long version, but yeah, that's how it will work Like a necessary version a real necessary version and the reason being for a long long time the investment community Who maybe wasn't necessarily interested in the tech as much? We're like what are paths to profitability for this coin atom, right? Well, this interchange security provides the path to profitability I mean, it's really a game changer from a tokenomics perspective from a investor standpoint You know the the guy who's only interested in roi return on my investor Yeah Yeah, I got you Exactly and save a seal Save a seal. Perfect. So this is what you went to my last one and I want to start and jerry since you've you've uh You're the one that that talked to me about this which was the user interface so How difficult Is atom or cosmos to you? Well, it was what does what is up with atom? You know as as the hub itself how difficult is to use What what's the user interface like and then what are you personally doing with it? Okay? um Everything works real well with comparison. So most people who've been in crypto understand metamask The browser extension wallet you can plug in the grave or chrome or whatever um And when you use that you're interacting with dApps or applications in ethereum or other blockchains that you've connected to your metamask wallet Right. Well If you remember when defi came out I dabbled in that and man, it was expensive It was so Expensive to deal with sushi swap and liquidity pools and trying to do this and do that and the other thing For a little guy like me only pushing, you know 10 20 30 dollars. It was cost prohibitive. I couldn't do it I find the atom network and the kepler wallet More so than any other wallet in the world that kepler wallet kelpr Created this ease of use. It's like having my it's like having a metamask wallet with all the chains I can connect all the chains easily effortlessly With ibc I can move assets around on different blockchains for fractions of a penny And speed and finality of settlement is As high as anything i've used ever and I used to be a big xrp guy Yeah, so I I know a little bit about fast blockchains This this ecosystem is fast simple And very efficient when it comes to fees and costs of use No, sounds good. And then now we'll leave my last one. So crypto sito for you and you can talk about adam or the cos Or cosmos itself tenor mint I'm not a developer. I don't think any of us are but I mean just to talk about like the ease of use and How easy it would be just to use you can start with adam or are we talking about cosmos as well? Yeah, I mean, um, you know also what what jerry said is True. I mean that also got me really hooked is the simplicity and the focus on having a smooth ux Because a lot of these applications in crypto are very you can tell like developers have have you know made the the front end and like They just shipped what I think works and they're excited about the tech and maybe that's also good But to onboard really a lot of users, you know ux for for basic retail non technical people like I am and you are Right, it needs to be intuitive So I think, you know, if you look at osmosis dot zone the best decks in crypto in my opinion It's just so easy and so seamless, right? I started to uh, I have used other wallets and other decks in the past But as jerry said, you know, you can make ibc transfers and it's not even like Labeled as oh, you're now doing this and there's crush chain and you have to click here. It's like, yes That's always draw simple, right? Like just click here. Boom. Two clicks and you're done. So I think that's a big thing um from a developer perspective And I talked to a lot of them on my channel They just I get the same, you know, and I get actually more and more excitement also outside of cosmos You know, we also see dydx moving now There's a project from polkadot called Centropy that is now moving away from substrate onto cosmos. Um, they seem to just feel that it's More they have more flexibility more tools. It's more customizable From a developer perspective And I think once interchange security goes live on the cosmos hub It will just add another layer of customizability and You know Another toolbox where developers can just Have even more options um to spin up their own chains or even to migrate and move back and forth, right? We also see Um projects sometimes they launch on one network and then just just move to another one or they move to an l2 Or they spin up their own chain This stuff is very fluid and I think cosmos provides a lot of Flexibility here, which is why I think I might as prediction also in the video by the end of this year More than 200 ibc connected chains right now with 53 according to map of zones.com So that's a 4x roughly. Um, but I think You know, I mean, I don't know that might be even conservative. So who knows But I think there's a lot in the work. So I'm excited Yeah, I can tell you so yeah I mean like a 4x to go from there for you know growth I mean that that would bring it back right back to it's uh to adam's all-time high I think it's run 10 dollars now. I think 40 dollars was at the very end So that so that'll do it so guys So don't forget crypto city was challenge his channel is a link in the description You can follow him on youtube all watch all those videos also On twitter as well link in the description jerry Who has been lagging quite quite a bit? But has some fantastic guests, uh, tom bill you ral pal greg fos Who else yet peter mccormick and I don't know if you had michael sailor on at one point No sailor no sailor But jeff booth from the from the price of tomorrow and and ral pal and and of course you Yeah, did you last said news? That was probably your biggest guest and then also Don't forget about jerry's patreon and also follow him on twitter. So gentlemen. Thanks again for stopping by. I appreciate Again links to the description. That's it. Thank you so much. Like and subscribe. See you on the next one