 station New York recording in progress with us tonight is recorded. We have with us the select board. We have Mark and we have Vic and we have Randy jewelry. Is there anyone in the work? Obviously, is there anyone else out there? OK, welcome everyone. We have any amendments to the agenda, Sarah? Nope. OK. So the first item on the agenda is resuming the discussion about how best to provide fire protection in middle sex action impossible. And I believe Steve. Yes, I'd like to be heard on this. Well, I wrote up I hopefully all everybody got it. The fire department's I don't know if the fire department got it. Hold on. That was probably. Uh, I'll just quickly say and also they're not here yet. OK, you sent it to them, correct? No, I'm sending it to him now. Oh, I have crazy day today. Hold on. I think we should. I think we should go ahead and discuss what Steve has put together. We're not going to make a decision tonight at any rate, and they'll have an opportunity to respond to this. Right. Oh, question. No, so they may get they may get still still show up. They certainly knew that this is when we were going to be discussing the fire department again. So yeah, Jeff confirmed that he would be at the five be here at five o'clock. So OK. So with that, Steve, go ahead. All right. So what I had written up was some different line items, but one was like creating a new department and under the umbrella of the town of middle sex and the current 501 C3 should be retained and function to organize fundraisers and social events for the department or whatever, and there may be more things in there. And then and then third under there, I put retain any and all of the current members and hopefully all of the current members would want to be on board. Then I I listed it under a new department create and maintain an active recruiting program create and maintain a comprehensive training program and then complete an ongoing list of clothing, gear, materials and or equipment needed to keep the department and personnel safe, operational and in compliance with the state and national standards. Then I had a consult with and I don't have his name there. It's the guy that Bob Gowan recommended that we get in touch with. It's a I sent it to everybody else, Steve. You should have gotten a copy. It's Peter Lynch, chief of fire. Is that you meant? Yeah. All right. Thank you. I'll write that in here right now. Peter Lynch, I thought that from from the recommendations of both the Waterbury and the Montpere fire departments with their recommendations. I thought that should be a really valuable resource. So that's why I put that to consult with him, you know, as recommended by Montpere chief for all of the above items. And I he's probably going to have a lot of wealth of knowledge of of everything that we should be doing. Then I put it in timeline. I put create a new department by August 15th of 21. Training and recruiting programs initiated from day one. The department to be organized with possible limited functions in a six month time frame and then department to be fully organized and functional within one year. Now, some of these may change. But in looking up a lot of data, I think these are achievable. Considerations, one of the considerations was fiscal year twenty one twenty two budget that we'll have to look at legal assistance from our town attorney insurance compensation to neighboring departments for their coverage and fire call coverage in the interim time frame. The last thing I put on there just some notes that Montpere and Waterbury fire department had volunteered to help with the training and to help in any other way they can. And Gary Dillon got back to me again today stating that they're more than willing to help. They have an equipment officer that is willing to go up go over all of their equipment and gear and put everything on a spreadsheet and so that we know what we'd have to do over a period of time, whether it's one year or 2 years or 3 years, depending on what we what we really need to buy and replace. And then last item I put on their reiterating what my first item was was I'd like to have the corporation and participation of the current members of the fire department. And that's all that's all I put down. We've got some work to do. We've got some work to do. I think we've got work to do no matter what I saw a note from Jeff on some a bunch of training stuff they've done which is great. I think anything we can do in the training field is great. But I personally think we need to move forward in the direction of what I just laid out. There may be some changes or different items in there, but I think we need to move in that direction. So obviously obviously there's some big unanswered questions in this. Yes, big unanswered question. Number one is going to be is will the current members of the fire fire department be willing to continue? And I agree. Hopefully they will. But there's some chance that some or all of them may leave. And if that happens, then we're in a different we're in a different place with a different challenge. Basically, we're going to have to make a deal with Waterbury and Montpelier on an interim basis to provide not just support, but basically fire protection. Right. Likely and I'm I'm believing I am hoping hoping that doesn't happen. But if it does happen, we're going to have budget issues big time. Likely, likely having to amend our budget, which would mean a special town meeting and all that goes along with it. But we've got to take it one step at a time, I guess. And here's Eric, the TVA. I'm sorry. Here's Eric, the TVA, if you want to go over it again. So did you guys adjust the proposal that Steve put together? Yeah. Sir, we had computer problems here. OK. What was what was said? I didn't hear that. So Steve, Steve sent out or Sarah sent to you a proposal that Steve Martin put together. I just check right now. Yeah, I'm looking right now. I think we should review it with them again. I agree. And Steve, could you just clarify when you say when you have that bullet point of create new department, does that mean like like municipal? Like, what does that mean? Well, legally. Well, let me just let me go down through the list again. And I'll try to explain that a little bit. So under this middle sex volunteer fire department, I had put some headers in there. One was create a new department. The new department would be under the umbrella of the town of middle sex. It would not be the 501C3, the private department that it is now. But I also put down there that the current 501C3 should be retained and function to organize fundraisers, social events for the department or etc. Whatever they come up with there. There's a lot of other departments that do it that way. And it seems to work pretty good. And then I put up the last bullet on there. I put retain any and all of the current members. I think that's real important and we want all of the current members to be in the fire department. It's going to be still going to be their department, but it'll be under the umbrella of the town. But what does that mean? Like what, how does that happen? Like, is it like become a municipal fire department? It becomes a municipal fire department based on a select board vote according to our town attorney. Okay. So one of the issues, one of the issues we have to talk about this is, in this is, you know, communicating this to the citizens. However, we're going to go forward, but there is no, it's a select board vote and boom it's done as of whatever date is in that, in that motion. The other thing I would say is a lot of the issues associated with this, for instance, the insurance, other than, other than notifying the insurance company when they will be delighted that it is a, now a middle sex entity. I mean, we provide all the insurance now. It's all under the town's insurance. So there's really nothing to do other than notify the insurance company. Right. Okay. So again, and then one of the next headers I had was a new department and that, the bullets I put in there, create and maintain an active recruiting program, create and maintain a comprehensive training program and then complete an ongoing list of clothing, gear, materials and or equipment needed to keep the department and the personnel safe, operational and in compliance with the state and national standards. And then the last bullet I put on there was consult with Peter Lynch. He was recommended by Montpeer Chief Bob Gowan to get in touch with him to go over all any of the above items. That sounded like he is going to be a really good resource and I think we should tap into that timeline. I had create the new department by August 15th of 21, training and recruiting programs initiated from day one, department to organize with possible limited functions in a six month timeframe and then the department to be fully organized and functional within one year. Again, it depends. I mean, it may be quicker than that and hopefully it is. Like I said before, the training that has been going on recently is going to do nothing but help the department anyway. Then I had considerations, fiscal year 21-22 budget. Peter touched on that briefly. It's just considerations that we have to look at and there's probably more. I probably don't have a lot of things in this proposal. Then legal assistance from the town attorney, assurance. Compensation to neighboring departments for their coverage if that's needed and then fire call coverage in the interim timeframe. Then I had some notes in there that Montpelier and Waterbury Fire Department have volunteered to help with the training and to help in any other way that they can and I also stated and it's not on that paper that Gary Dillon, the chief of Waterbury got in touch with me again today and stated that they're willing to help. They're willing to help with training or anything they can and also his equipment officer is willing to come up to our department and go over stuff with our guys, make sure whatever needs to be replaced or bought that we don't have and put everything into a spreadsheet so we can see what kind of a timeframe we need to pay for this stuff. Then the last bullet I have about there, again reiterating what I said first, I'd like to have to have the corporation and participation of the current Middlesex Fire Department volunteers. And that's it, again. I would also just encourage that we add on to this proposal somewhere probably under the financial piece around figuring out compensation for the firefighters, for the volunteer firefighters, revisiting that. Yes, I do agree with you on that. I didn't put it in this proposal because I think there's gonna be a lot of department stuff. What they're getting compensated for right now is really, it's really atrocious. They need to be compensated a lot more than what they are now. And I just have one more question, Steve. When it falls into the municipal, so you say by August 15th, and then you have sort of this timeline of like the organization of the department, does it become the select board task to assign a chief and a first officer? And I don't even know the titles of these people, but is that then become our job? No. I envision what would happen and correct me if I'm wrong on this, Steve. But I envision though, like we do with, like we do with other entities that operate under the town that they would come to us with a recommendation and we would appoint. Yeah, we would, right. We would approve an appoint. Yes. Phil had a comment. Peter covered it. So, you know, we've got some details. We've got some details to work out, a lot of details to work out, but the first big question mark is, and I know this is gonna be a big deal for all of you who are on the fire department, but we are really hoping that you're gonna support the town and support the fire department and be part of this process. If you decide you're not going to be here, most of you decide you're not gonna be part of this process, then we're in a significantly different place than if you are. Then we're in a place of having to start in a more, start from scratch type scenario, which we would really prefer not to do. We certainly appreciate very much all your efforts right up to the current day, providing fire protection and middle sex. So none of this is meant to be a slam or an insult to any of you. And I hope you take it that way. I understand it may take some time to digest this, but I hope you take it that way. Yeah, I mean, I just barely saw this email. So I really had a chance to actually look through it and actually understand other than what you guys have just said. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, so I, yeah, but. And I'm sorry, you know, we had it on our schedule that, you know, tonight was the meeting to talk about the fire department again. And, you know, we, this went out at the last minute. So, you know, we're not expecting you to react to it now. And what I'd like you to do is just think about it and come back to us with questions and concerns. I'm sure you'll have, you'll have a lot of them. And. There are questions, concerns and recommendations. Yeah. And, you know, that August 15th date is a placekeeper, but if we can't get our act together by August 15th, that might not happen by August 15th. But again, a lot of it's gonna have to do with how many of you are interested in continuing and being part of the process. I guess, I guess one of the questions I would have is what would be the benefits to be under your umbrella? I'm just trying to understand that. Right, right, right, right. So, the benefit of being under our umbrella is you will actually be part of the town in every sense. You won't be an independent organization now. Some people may see that as a negative. I see that as a positive because it's gonna change. It's gonna change the relationship between us and you. You're really now gonna be, you're really now gonna be part of us. And, you know, we're gonna be providing oversight, help, support and in every way that we can. And, you know, it's just, what it boils down to, I think, more than anything else is it is just difficult for the town to provide all the financial support and have no real oversight or input or I mean, control is a bad word. I would use the word oversight of what goes on in the fire department. So, you know, I realize you could look at that and say, oh, that's a negative. They're gonna get involved in our stuff. Well, I would tell you we only wanna help not hinder you. So, you know, being part of the town just I think is gonna make that a much better situation. I also think it, you know, sends a message to the Waterbury and Montpelier fire departments, you know, who really have kind of, you know, basically are telling us like something needs to change. We definitely wanna have a middle sex fire department, right? We don't wanna contract out to Montpelier and Waterbury. That's really expensive. We have a great fire department. We have a great building. We've got great volunteers. And I think, you know, this is an opportunity for us to say yes, Montpelier and Waterbury, who are, you know, main supporters of the fires that we have. Yes, we're willing to work with you so that we can continue to maintain a good relationship but still have our own fire department. And I think this is an opportunity for us to, I mean, frankly, Eric, I don't see, you know, much changing for you guys per se on a day-to-day basis. No. I think this is more about, you know, the when someone from the town says something or has some concern, we know about it, right? And we can help address it and we can work with the fire department. So, you know, I mean, I think I agree that this, you know, is for the most part, I think it'd be a positive thing for you guys and not to look at it like Peter said as, you know, some sort of, we're taking this away from you. I think we're trying to strengthen you and have more of a partnership with Montpelier and Waterbury. At least that's the way I see this all rolling out. I think that's exactly right. Well, thank you. Yeah, well said. Okay. Well, I mean, we can certainly, you know, bring it to the rest of the group and get input from them and mull it over and get back to you guys for sure. I don't know how we do it, but some group of us, I mean, maybe we should have a joint meeting between the select board and the fire department. That's so- Get everybody in the same room. Yeah. That's just a thought, but, you know, there's nothing like looking people in the eye and getting to ask people directly questions rather than, you know, you funneling stuff to them, they funnel stuff back to us. That's certainly a viable, viable solution there. I mean, I think- I have to believe all of us would be willing to, more than willing to do that, glad to do that. I would think we would be willing to do that. Yep, yep. I think that's a great idea. Okay, well, why don't you talk it over and assuming you agree, well, in the near timeframe, we'll make that happen. Sounds great. Okay. I think it's a good idea. Okay. Thanks, Eric. By the way, great job with the, I missed the last meeting after you were there, but great job with the tour that you gave on the fire department. We had a really good turnout. Yeah, there was one. And I thought it was really well done and I learned a lot and, you know, so thanks for doing that. Thank you. Yes, thank you. People came to that, Liz. I totally forgot about it. I don't know, how many people were there, Eric? Like 20, 30? I mean, there was some people. Yeah, there was at least 20. Yeah. Thanks. Good. Yeah, see, that's not, I mean, there's a good example of something that we should be doing on an ongoing basis because so many people in town have no idea what goes on with the fire department, you know? Going down there and seeing what we have down there and the people down there and meeting the volunteers, all good. Awesome. Good. Okay, well, that's really it for the night unless I realize we've thrown a lot at you in a little period of time here. So we look forward to hearing back from you and we'll set up that joint meeting. Yeah, that's a great idea. Thank you. Okay, thanks very much, guys. Well, hold on. Can I question before they go away? Okay. We got something from Jeff about the response of the calls. Did Eric, did you want to talk about that with us? Because I had two. I didn't get a chance to see it. Oh, okay. Yeah, I think he had just sent it out because he was running behind. He had some work being done at his house or something was going on and he was running behind. So I didn't get a chance to see it. I just wanted you, if you wanted to come in on it to have somebody from the department, but we can do it at the next meeting. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay, guys, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. And you're welcome to, we're welcome to stay. We're not shooing you away if you want to. Well, we have our own meeting. You're welcome to continue. All right, yeah. Well, we have our own meeting to attend to also tonight. So. Okay. All righty. Thank you very much. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Highway report updates on Middlesex road projects. Action possible review and approval of 2021 certificate of compliance action likely review and possible approval of $13,750 VTrans grant with a $2,750 town match to implement best management practices and in compliance with the non-department environmental conservation municipal roads general permit action possible. Wow. Victor. Wow. Yeah. I believe one or most of the select board or some of the select board has to sign that permit and we'll get the $13,000 and we, that's for like ditching or putting in stone, doing the agency of natural resource, stormwater mitigation stuff. And I think that'll be done most likely to talk to over with Shane. They're moving to bulldog road and portal road. And I think we'll use it over there. So that's a straight up grant, correct? Correct. No, there's a match. No, there's a match. Yeah, but it's a grant. Right. Yeah. Right. Okay. All right. None of that money, none of that was used for the park, the shady real park. Is that right, Victor? No, I don't think we're doing any stormwater mitigation over there. That's nothing to do with us. No, that's not us. They're tearing that place apart down there. I was going to go in there and check it out and I didn't get a chance, but I will. But they're doing all this stuff. Yes, Sarah. I just want to clarify with Victor that if you get this grant, you'll use it on bulldog road or is that the only place or the other places? To be determined. To be determined. You like that? Can I add voices or time that is put against because we can use in kind, not just cash. So anytime devoted to this grant work needs to be noted so on the time sheets or somehow so we can capture that. I went over that with Shane when he told me about it and he is aware that he will track of that, the hours and the time and the machinery and all that stuff. Absolutely great, thanks. But thanks for reminding us. Yep. Okay, can we move right along then? No, you need a motion. Yep. I can't move it. Nope, somebody else can. I move it. I don't know what I'm moving. Is it to approve the? It's to sign the approve the letter of intent to participate in the municipal roads grants and aid program, right, Vic? That's what you're talking about. That is correct. Good. That's what I move. I'll second. Any further discussion? Okay, all those in favor of the motion which is to approve a $13,750 Vermont transportation grant with a $2,750 town match, which can be in kind. Please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Wait, could you amend the motion to say that one person can sign on behalf of the select board because this needs to be signed? Okay, sure. Yes. If everybody else agrees. I agree to that amendment and I'm incorporating it in the motion I made and who second is Steve? I did. When you agree with that change, Steve? I do. You gotta appoint somebody. Who's the person you gotta appoint? Steve. Well. Well, who's going down to the offices? When does it have to be signed? Before the. I'm sorry. What did you say, sir? By June 20. I did ASAP, but it's fixed, right? June 25th. It must be submitted via email by June 20. But I can sign it and scan it, for instance? Yeah, I can just. I mean, I don't know if that code, nobody has to actually show up at your office, right? Correct. I will fill it in, try to save it and scan it to you. It's weird because it just gives you like, it's a high, it's a fillable PDF. So maybe we could just sign it. You could just sign it as the middle sex select board and I can attach minutes because there's no, there's no signatures. It says return sign letter, but it just says duly authorized representative. So we just need a duly authorized representative, I guess. Or to electronically sign. Be that person unless somebody else wants to. The amendment should be, that can be electronically signed by the chair of the select board. Perfect. There you go. Let the minutes reflect that amendment. And Sarah, that is the 25th, correct? Correct. I'm looking at it right, I'm looking at it my right now. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while. Who's the blind? Now we also have to deal with the certificate of compliance. Yes, that's also for something that we need to do, but it's just a routine thing. You guys have copies of it. It's something we do every year and somehow we missed it this year. I don't know. I move approval of the certificate of compliance for town roads and bridge standards and network inventory. Do before we go on, can I just get the road foreman to say that we further certify that we do or do not have an update highway network inventory? We do, right Vic? That box should be, you have to say yes. Yes. Okay. So that's box should be checked. And you're also saying that you've certified that the standards do meet the meet or exceed the minimum requirements the June 5th, 2019 state approved template. Say yes. Yeah. Now. Okay, good. But is this for the general permit, municipal roads general permit? No, this has to go with all the VTrans grants. I think Shane's applying for one it may have to do with a paving. You always have to include the certificates of compliance, the certificate of highway lily. Standards of roadway and bridge specifications, correct? Correct. This is the certificate of compliance for town road and bridge standards and network inventory and we do it every year. Yeah. Okay, I want you to, I want to say yes, we got to sign that, but I also want to talk about it. Okay. Talk before we approve it. Well, no, I think it's very, very important and I tried to get to this the other day, but you got another telephone call. Yeah. And it's kind of sketchy, whether we, you know, you can sign it, is that all you want to do? You want to sign it or do you want to do it? We're certifying it. We're certifying that we eat or eat. Okay, we're not, that's all. That's all, there's a question, there's a gray area there. And Steve, I went down and I talked to Steve and it's not just that. And it's not Shane that has an issue, but we have some people on our crew that have old habits are hard to break. And I just wanted to tell you that if we're going to sign that thing, we're going to add here to it. Okay. Great. End of statement. I don't want to give it lip service. I mean, we're going to do it. What does it mean, Vic, in actual terms? Why are you saying that? Well, there's certain ways and there's standards on how to do everything and anything on your bridges, on your highways, on your roads, your typical sections, your ditching, yada, yada, yada. And we're going to do it to the best that we can. And Shane is in agreement, but we're having a little issue. And I think Steve is aware of that because I had a little chat with him and he was very supportive. But I just want you guys to know that we're going to do, just going to give it lip service. Steve reiterated that for me and he helped us out. And I think, I want to thank him for that. And if you want to know more about it, Peter, call Steve. Well, all I'm saying is if the road crew has a problem with that, I'm sorry, but that's the way the- I'm sorry too, but- I'm sorry too, Peter, but you know what the issue is and we keep dancing around. And at some point, we're going to have to get together and we're going to have to address that issue. I personally think it can be resolved before it comes to that. But that's my- That's my take. Twice under, Peter. Is there a reason that we're not naming the issue? Yeah, what are we talking about? Is there someone that's like not ditching the roads properly? I mean, it feels like we're coming at this without wanting to talk about what the issue is. And for somebody like anybody attending this meeting who isn't part of these conversations, you just, you're lost. So here's the issue, I think. And help me out, Victor and Steve, is that we have people on our road crew who have years and years and years of experience. And they have ways of doing things the way they have always done things. And that's the way they like to do them. And that's the way they believe it should be done. But the fact of the matter is, we have these rules and regulations that we're supposed to follow and they need to follow. I don't care how they did it 20 years ago. I thought what specifically is it that they're not doing? One specific thing I'll just bring up was compaction when they're doing some putting in a cover, doing the proper compaction. And that was one of the big items and that was one of the items that Victor talked to me about. But I think that that's squared away, but I do agree with Vic. We're gonna sign this thing of compliance. We just need to do them right. And I think the road crew, the ones that are used to doing it their own way will follow right along and do it the way we want. And the other thing I would say is, if it's a matter of having them get additional training or go to workshops or whatever it is to get them to understand this better and think it isn't some random thing that Shane and Victor and the select board have come up with, we can do that. But there should be no misunderstanding, Victor, that it's our intent to do this. Okay, no, I just wanted to make it clear. I wanna get part of the minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're wrong with being right up front. I like those six. You're right. So if you wanna come back in and talk to them about that, as long as I don't have to talk about boots or trailers to move the excavator again for the 25th time I'll come. Or putting in a part to make the breaks work on the loader. Hey, so by the way, they put that part in and nobody got back to me. I know, I heard that and I mentioned that. Okay. What was the determination when they actually looked at it that it really needed to be replaced? I do not know the answer to that question. Yeah, obviously, but I don't know the answer. My concern is this is just to back up a little bit so that so everybody knows what's going on. I got tangled up in a little situation at the town of the garage a week or so ago. And the service guy was coming to work on the breaks on the loader and Shane had been there early in the morning on a Friday when they don't normally work to meet with him. But the service guy was late and arriving. I was talking to Shane. So I said, well, I'll go over there and make sure he's there and see what's going on. So I went over there and he couldn't find anything wrong with the breaks, the service guy. And there was nobody there to show him what was wrong with the breaks. So Charles came over and showed him or told him that at times the brake pedal sticks down. The brakes work fine, but to get the brakes off you have to stick your toe into the brake pedal and pry it back up. And long story short, I suggested to them that and the problem is that the pedal is connected to a rod down on the floor of the cab of the loader. So it's subject to dirt and salt and water and all the stuff that you would expect to be down there. And I said, well, what about cleaning it up and lubricating it? And the service guy said to me, he said, well, I think that's a good idea. And all the years I've been working on these loaders I've never, ever, ever had to replace this part. So I said, well, let's do that. Let's try it. And if it turns out it doesn't work or there's some real problem, we'll go ahead and change it. Well, Charles was adamant that it needed to be changed. And I said, listen, Charles, I'm making the decision that we're not changing it. So if there's some reason it needs to be changed, I want the Anderson guy or you to call me and explain to me why it needs to be changed. Well, the long and the short of it is they went ahead and changed it $1,100 and never called me. It's a little source of aggravation to me because I spent the time to try and understand what was going on and the service guy had agreed with me that that was the approach to tank and then they didn't do it. So I don't know whether they found something catastrophic wrong where it needed to be changed. I have no idea, but make me happy. So anyway. I think we have to reiterate too, this was on a Friday and she did it early and then he left. This is no reflection on anything Shane did. He wasn't- No, no, no, no, no. No, I just want to make that clear. I just want to make that clear. That's all right. Yeah, he wasn't there. And so I called and spoke to him and I also spoke to Victor afterwards to say- Yes, he did. I've made this decision and I hope it's the right one and if it's the wrong one, it's on me. So- So who authorized them to make a change then if you said they couldn't do it? I say nobody authorized them to do it. So that's exactly my concern, Mary. Peter did it. Peter did authorize it if it needed to be changed, but he wanted them to call. Right, correct. I don't know what time you were down there, Peter, but I saw that technician leave about 20 after three when I was picking up my kids from school on Friday. He was there most of the day. It was like, I think it was about 10 o'clock in the morning when I was over there. But this is a big thing to change. A lot of hydraulic lines had to be disconnected and reconnected and whatever. It just, it was telling to me that the service guy said they had never had to replace one of these valves before. So who knows? Hopefully it's the right thing and they just forgot to call me, but they didn't call me and I don't like that. I specifically asked them to call me. Anyway. Let's move right along, Peter. Yes, let's move along, I agree. Okay. So have you voted on this, Peter? I'm sorry, what? We vote on this. I made a motion to approve the certificate. I don't think we ever did, Mary. Okay. And I'm not sure who, I'm not sure who seconded it. I'll second that. Well, yes, Sarah. Did you please also in this motion authorize a duly authorized administrator to sign this? Yes. We will. Yes. Moved by Mary, seconded by Steve. All in favor? Aye. Aye. I have to just use my picture because my iPad is running out of power. I didn't realize that I would have powered it up. Okay. You guys didn't authorize the representative to sign it. No, we said we did, so you can add the language. I said I did on my motion and then Steve said he agreed. So it was amended. But you need to name somebody who can sign this, this paper right here. Since you guys are no longer, if you were meeting in person, you could all sign it, but I need to know. I presume it would be the usual person, Sarah, unless somebody objects. What's the usual person? It's always authorized. Okay, well, that's something you could sign. What about the law commissioner? It doesn't matter. It says duly authorized administrator. Just pick somebody who can sign it. How about the road commissioner? He's a road commissioner. He's friendly. Sure. Okay. You just need to name somebody in the minutes so that I can. Let's just do it the easiest way. So Victor, unless you're dying to sign it, the easiest way is for Sarah to be the authorized person to sign it. That's fine with me. Anybody object to that? No. Okay, thank you. Sorry for that confusion. So Victor, I do have one other quick question for you and it doesn't relate. I have about seven for you. I know. Yes, the paving grant, is that correct? As far as I know, yes. And when do we think that will happen? Spring, 2022. And when will the grant be awarded? Soon. That spring of 2022 is because the contractor with the lowest bid has a big state job. It's Jay Hutchins, no big secret and it saves quite a bit of money. They will do it next year for the same price but they gotta do it next spring. Yep. Okay. And we have some work to do on that and we will talk about it. We have some culverts that we think Shane and I went down and looked at them all and measured them all up. And, but I think due to the depth of some of those we may have to hire out because we'll need a stone box and a bigger excavator. Let's just not do what we've done in the past where we pay first and then go dig it up and put in culverts. Exactly. Right. Please, let's not do that. Okay. We won't. No. Okay. That doesn't meet the roadway and bridge that you just signed. Did we get any paperwork saying it's been awarded? Ashley Bishop still has it but she stole Shane a couple of times that it looks like it's going through. But we will, I will get that. I will check with that. I'll keep on top of that. As soon as Ashley gets this paper that I just signed and I'm going to scan tonight, she'll get your grant, she'll get your paperwork. Okay. That was holding it up. All right. Great. Thank you. Perfect. I wasn't aware of that. Peter, here's a big one for you. The city of Montpelier, I called them a couple of weeks ago. This is my other favorite subject? Yeah. And the gentleman's wife was having a baby and I guess it took two or three weeks. And, but anyways, we went up today with a GPS and we set the line, the property line is right at the edge of the pavement and it's painted. So Shane, I went down and told Shane I was working myself right in the area for myself right in the area and he's going down to look at it. We're going to state it and maybe we'll even get a sign. Wouldn't that be amazing? Okay. So, is it in the middle? Which end of no man's land is it or is it in the middle? What I'm talking about is the little section at the end of East Hill where we intersect with Montpelier. Yeah. The section that we didn't pave and they didn't pave and I've been calling in no man's land. Right. So it's right at the end of that pavement. Which end? The end of our pavement or the end of the pavement? Right where the dirt in the middle and comes together. So they're the ones who cut it short. That's the way I see it. Perfect. We'll fix it. Wow, we had it. Good work, Victor. I know that's a little thing but I drive back and forth across that every day and I think there's got to be some happy resolution to this. Yeah. Rather than anything, we ignore it and they ignore it. Well, we've got the same situation on the end of Center Road where the state- Correct. Yeah, correct. Yeah, correct. Yeah. And I think that is state all the way up there if my memory is correct. Yes, it is. The grader is coming maybe this week or the first and next week. There is no sense of telling you which day it's going to come because then if it doesn't come we're going to catch, we're going to get grief. But it's coming. That's good. And the grader's coming and the plow harness, which is the thing that we bought on the front to add weight for the front wheels for Liz and Mary and Phil and the roller will take some time but they will come up to the shop in middle sex and do that with no additional charge. So are they going to want money when they deliver? They know they can't get it till after the first of July. Okay. They are aware of that. We call that the Derrinda rule. No money till the first of July. That's right. We've finally got that slide area done thanks to Steve and Shane. We get the water cut off there. I call it Vic Dwyer's brook over there on McCulloch Hill that starts on my property. But anyways, we dug down and we found the water and we put the water in a ditch and we put stone and the water's going into the culvert. And it seems to be very little if any seepage across the road and Shane puts some smaller rock and then some bigger rock to stabilize it. And actually, it was the first time I've seen it and happened in quite a while but we took material from our ditching and put down there and kind of made that a better slope on the right-hand side. And of course, we've been putting the new culvert in so that got a new culvert also. And several people have told us that it looked very nice. Well, we got that done. The other, oh, that's the third, okay. So we got another grant for $4,000 for it was called a rock grate. Nobody knew what it was for really. I didn't, I had no idea but it turns out that for $8,700, I think that would be $4,700 more bucks of our money. We can get a new stone sand grisly. And grisly is that they dump the frozen sand over in the wintertime and breaks it up and so on then they get all fine sand but we can use it if we haul our, if we ever take, get stone out and ever haul it back to the town garage we can reclaim the stone. Wait a minute, Vic, hold on. Yep. Have we gotten this grant? Yes. Yes. Yes. What did we apply and why don't we have the paperwork for that? All applied for it. All applied for it. Paul. Oh. Here we go. We need to create books and documentation. I can't keep up with this. We can't, you know, is there any match to it? Is it, I mean, you know nothing about it. I just said we're gonna have to spend $4,700 bucks. We're spending $4,700 and how much is the grant for? $4,000. $4,720. Right, $720. Okay, wait a minute, you're missing the point. How much is the town now? $4,000, right, Steve? Yes. So we're only getting $4,700. If we're out $4,000 and the grant's only for $4,700? No. Okay, all right. What's the grant for? The grant's for $4,720, Steve? Yes, it is. And the grizzly is $8,700. $8,858. Okay, that's a new number for me. But anyway, so we're gonna have to spend that amount of money. Different, $4,100 and change. Yep, exactly. I have to do it before I do it. Yes, where's this grant from? Okay, this is crazy. From the, well. This money, we can't keep back what's coming in. Well, all right, hang on a minute. Don't get upset. This is something that I have told everybody about more than once back some time ago. It was finally approved. And I don't know where the paperwork is. Hold on, I gotta mute these. Okay, I muted them, go ahead. I don't know where the paperwork is, but I know that Vic or Shane can talk with Ashley Bishop and that's where it goes through and we can get the paperwork. But this is something that I have mentioned before. This is not a new thing. Right, it's not a new thing. And I thought actually, I thought what, I thought Sarah sent it to me. Yeah, I've seen a copy of it. So neither Shane or Shane's got one over at the, at the, I'm not, I'm not sure. But like Steve says, we'll get it. So we owe an apology to Jill Murray and probably Randy too. She went up through this morning and we're digging culverts. Peter, we didn't know we're gonna do it and we thought we could do half and half and I said, and they couldn't. So we had to, so Jill had to turn around. So I apologize for a few sweet words for that. To tell you the truth, I didn't know we were gonna put them in today. Yesterday it rained, I thought it was gonna rain today so we wouldn't be doing it, but we ended up doing it. Or we would have had to move the excavator a long ways back if we just ditched or we would do nothing. So to fix that, I put a post in the front porch firm, that from 81 McCulloch Hill Road to East Hill for the next four weeks, we will be doing ditching, graveling and changing culverts. Now, if we're not changing, if we're not digging up the road to change the culvert, you can get through. And the only people that it really affects greatly is the people that wanna get their kids to school. As far as I know, Jill, Amy and Sven and Lee Rosenberg, and is there anybody else that you know it's all over Thursday, Vic, it's all over Thursday. Okay, you're golden then, you're golden because we won't be putting any culvert in till next Monday. Well, she'll appreciate the comment. I think the world of your wife and I just felt terrible that she had to turn around if we'd have gotten through something. So that's what we did. Good communication is a wonderful thing. All right, Anne. Okay, let's see, okay. Yeah, I guess we already brought that up. Okay. Okay, I think I better bring that up later between Steve and I and the first part didn't go out over. Very well. Say yes. Say yes. Okay, that's it. But did we approve everything we need to, Victor, that was scheduled to be discussed tonight? Yup. Maybe you don't wanna know as much as this. Just say so. I like it more rather than less, so I like it. Yeah, well, you know about it. Steve knows about most of it because you guys talk, but Phil and Liz and Mary don't, so. Yeah, I like to know about it too, Vic. I mean, this is where any tax payer money goes, so yes. Yeah, as a taxpayer, it's wonderful to hear the efforts that are being made to go out and get outside money to bring into the town, so great job, guys. Yep. And I wanna say to Steve, I don't mean anything. Shane's doing an excellent job and I guess I don't, I guess I don't wanna apologize for it, but that standard specifications for roadway and bridges is near and dear to my heart because I had to follow it for 50 years. Okay, thank you, Steve. You're welcome. Well, and it is, we don't need to go back and revisit that. No, I don't think that works anymore. Yup. Okay, thanks, guys. Okay, Darinda, treasurer's report, updates on town's financial status, including Benderson developments, failure to pay $4,500, and he never got back to me, Darinda. Yeah, that's a shocker. So I don't know what our report is on that, but. Well, I did hear from, and I don't know what impact, I don't know if Sarah has any insight, but I heard from someone from Valsand Jackamo office who wanted to know how much Benderson owed us. So I don't know what's going on there. They had originally talked to Sarah. It's Brooke Dingledine. She's been dealing with them consolidated as a tenant of Benderson's for quite some time. So she's gathering all this info and is dealing with Benderson and get them to pay their Welch Park fair share. And she also said she's having a hard time getting Carl Bailin on board with this, but that's not our problem. I think Darinda, you gave her all the information she needed, right? Carl Bailin is paid up. He is not an issue at all. Yeah, this is between Brooke and this is between them. But it has nothing to do with consolidated. Benderson's the property owner and he's liable. His issue with consolidated is with consolidated, not with a middle member. She's been representing consolidated in regards to dealing with Benderson and Benderson and dealing with that well. So that's part of that. Do you guys remember when Brooke showed up at the meeting? Yeah. Yeah. But I think- Go ahead, Darinda. I'm sorry. This is a problem. I mean, this goes back to April of 2020 that they owe us. And I don't know why the town is being the bank for this. I've asked for the three or four years I've been on that something be done about this. And it's not. Well, the question is. Well, Darinda- Do we just stop? I mean, I'm ready to stop paying the bills. Well, how about if we talk to our attorney about what we can do? I mean, first, I think we can put a lien on the property, but that's not going to get us the money. Steve, I couldn't understand what you said. I said it might get their attention. I mean, I think we should definitely put a lien on there. So here's the whole point, though, is we need to, and I know John Riley doesn't like this, but I think we need to withdraw the town from Welch Park and let Benderson and Baylon and those people have all the fun they can have. And if that raises hell with the state permit, which is what John Riley think it's going to do, I'm beyond caring at this point in time. I mean, they have made us the patsy for all this time. And I know Carl does pay. He's difficult to deal with, but he does pay, but this business with Consolidated and Benderson is just ridiculous. They never signed the lab. We went through all this work to create a new amended, I don't know what it was, Certificate of Organization. What do you call it, Darinda? They had something like that. I guess amended bylaws for Welch Park. They never signed it. So what does that mean? I don't know. They promised to sign it. They said they'd sign it, but they never signed it. So, and they ignore us. So I guess, you know, what's the direction I take care? I mean, do I, what happens when the next bill comes in? What's the status with Brooke? Did she say she was going to get them to pay or? She never said anything to me. She thanked me for the information and that was it. I gave this to cover, but what did we pay for? This is for insurances, light bits for, there was a bill to Channette. I think something went out for permits for the water. You have to pay that permit fee or something every year or whatever. It goes all the way back to April. I didn't print out the thing in front of me. So I can't tell you what all of them they are, but. Okay. So we're essentially paying any of those kinds of things for bills for all the tenants of the park and then supposedly getting reimbursed. You know, my sense is if we're going to have our attorney look into something, I agree with you, Peter, let's put them on notice. It said it's our intent to withdraw. We no longer will be paying other people's shares. I mean, if we have a share that we have to pay, sure, pay our piece, but put the others on notice. It says, no, we're not doing it. We're done. No, I say, I say a little different than that. I said, we just withdraw. There's nobody in the town that's being part of Welch Park. Now, the last time, and it was probably eight or nine months ago, I brought this up to John Riley and he said, oh, that's gonna cause major problems because the state wants to have the municipal entity on the permit. And I said, well, they're not gonna close down our fire station. I mean, I don't care if it causes them problems. I'm sick of that. Arenda's more than sick of it and I'm more than sick of it. I'm scared to talk to Arenda because she brings it up every time I talk to her, I think Arenda. I don't think it's right that the taxpayers are holding the bag on this nor do I think we're incurring the cost to write the check, to put them in the envelopes, to put the postage on all this stuff and, but I still think there's time involved. There's, you know, I just isn't right that we're carrying this and we get nothing out of it. All right, I agree totally. Let's do this. I'm gonna say to John Riley, we want out. So come up with a plan, come up with a plan to get us out and let us know what the ramifications are. And also, if you have some scheme to get, to get Benerson to pay their share in the meantime, please do that. And that's gonna cost us a little bit in legal fees, but Well, I'll expense it out to them all. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Sorry, I'm in the meeting. Charging interest too. Well, that's the other thing. We don't even charge interest or anything. Yeah. We just want the money and more than anything else, we just want to get out of this. Right. I mean, back way back years ago, whenever this first started, it was perceived to be a benefit to the town, to have the park there, blah, blah, blah. And we started doing it and we've been stuck with it ever since. Does the town use that in any way, shape, or form? We're part of the park. Our fire department is there. But we do not use the water system. And we do maintain the road. That's a good question. We do, we plow it too. There was paving done on the road, it was, it's a private road, it's not a town road, is it? No. No, it is not. It's a private road. I think we plow it. Yeah, we do plow it. We do plow it because... We go down to the farm. It's there, so we plow it. But when it was, when the upper part of it was paved, it was all split up between the... It's a private road, it's not a town road. I mean, one of the things that occurred to me as a way of negotiating our exit from this association is to say that we would take over responsibility for the road. We're not there yet. Okay. Moving on. What? So I would say you should, just like everyone else says, stop paying the bills when they come in. I think you gotta put people on notice that says we're going to do that. Yes. So here's the only problem with that, Mary. I don't care if we don't pay for permits and things like that. If we let the insurance be canceled, we're putting the town at risk. Right. And I think that's a mistake. And what's the insurance bill, Dorenda? It's like 1500 a year, I think. I know it's like over a thousand. So like I said, I didn't print out any of that information in front of me. Let's listen, before we do anything, let me have a conversation with John with Dean Riley and I'll have a report for you at our next board meeting and then we can figure out what the next step is. Okay. Very good. So I submitted everything for that $72,000. Ashley said it was perfect and so we should be seeing that money. Oh, thank you. Congratulations. Good job, Dorenda. Well, you were in on it too, Steve, but she said that was everything she needed one time around, so. Well, didn't she also say it was perfect? She did use the word perfect, Sarah. I think you should really give some thought as to the best use of this money because before it arrives and just, you know, Victor's already raising his hand. No, it's not yours. We've already paid for it, so it's ours. But no, Victor's raising his hand, so I think that's something you should think about. Yeah. I obviously think you should put it on the grader. We looked into, we're looking into extended warranty. Yeah. And I think it goes out for 10 years. So if we put it, put most of it on the grader, we would have warranty as long as we owned it because I think we don't have 10 years. That's just my thoughts, that's all. Yeah. Well, I just want to, I mean, that's a great idea, but I think there's also, if you're talking about, and maybe the money should just be, because we've already expended the funds, it's like it technically doesn't have to be used just for highway because we've already paid those highway funds. Right, right. So, another thought I had is if we're going to incur any kind of extra costs that aren't budgeted for, say the fire department or something else, this may be some funds that are not being used. I mean, I hate to pay down a loan if we need extra funds to cover something else. That's my thought. That's a good point until we hear back from the fire department that's some idea how that's going to go. If we're going to be creating a fire department from scratch and paying for primary response from Waterbury and Montpelier, we're going to need a slug of extra money, so. Yeah. And I'm not sure how soon it'll come, but so I don't know if it'll make it into before the end of June or if it'll arrive after July, but anyways, that's that. Yeah, it is good news. I also sent an email out to Bonnie about doing the audit because even with all the concerns I had last year, I feel that because of all the transition, it was good to keep the consistency. I did not hear back from her. So I don't know if that's a subtle statement or if that is just I haven't heard back from her. And Peter, you know her, so I'll rely on your insight on that one. I have no idea, Dorinda, I would follow up with her. So send it again. Yeah. Okay, all right. I know the accounting world and the world of COVID is a completely topsy-turvy. They've had a nightmare doing audits and they're all fouled up. So who knows how fond she is, but. And that's kind of why I felt we should probably keep with her rather than trying to start down a new path. Not this year. All right. Also, I noticed after I sent out the financials, which I don't know if you guys have any questions on that, that is through everything that was paid today, where we stand. But one thing I noticed that didn't get in there was the school payment. So I'm going to have minor detail going to have to have them issue that payment and I'll have to send everybody out a special order to do sign off on that. All right. I didn't really have any question about the orders. The budget report just pointed out to me again that, and the good news is I think it shows we're in good shape. You know, we've under-projected our income. Once again, we've had extra income, but there are a lot of categories which are way underspent or unused. And there are a lot of things where, we've spent money somewhere but we didn't spend it somewhere else. And it just, it makes it very, and there's always going to be some of that. But I think there's opportunity for improvement when we go through our budget process in the fall to try and do a better job at this. Well, I think the only reason we've got less, we have over in our income is because we had grants that were never budgeted for, that we weren't applying for when we did the budget. Well, it's just that though, Dorenda, that we got more, and you know, some of this stuff you can't project, we got more state aid to highways than we thought we were going to get. Right, that's what I'm saying. You know, so these are monies that we didn't know when we did the budget, but if you look at the actual budgeted items, most of them are pretty on the money. No, I don't disagree, but all I'm saying is, you know, when we set the tax rate and when we do the budget year after year, after year after year, we get significant extra money. And I don't know how we account for that in our budgeting process, but we should, so I'm just suggesting that we try and do a more detailed job. Some of the things were, the big issues items were all spot on, I agree, but there's thousands and thousands of thousands of dollars there when you look at that. But thank you for that report and it shows, I mean, what it shows is, we're going to be more than fine at the end of the year, which is. Well, we're pretty, we're only at, we're at 94% of the budget and we still have, you know, all of June invoices basically to come in or several of them. So, I mean, I think we're going to be like right on target almost. No, I don't mean we're going to have a huge surplus. I'm just saying we're going to be, we're going to be okay, I think. Yeah, okay. And that's all I have. On top of the agenda to call John Riley and start the wheels turning tomorrow morning. I'll let everybody know what he's thinking. Yeah, good. Thinking and saying, and I'm going to ask him to actually formally write us a letter with his thoughts and recommendations for our next board meeting. So, we have some real documentation rather than just say, he doesn't recommend doing it because he thinks it's a nightmare. Yeah. Other business approval of minutes from the June 1, 2021 select board meeting. All moved. Moved by Steve. Mary and Liz weren't there so they can't move. What you said, Mary and Liz were not there so they can't, they can't move or move. Well, Steve, Steve made the motion, I just seconded. Perfect. Okay, so all in favor, which would be? Three of us. Phil, just Phil, Steve and Peter. Yep. Say aye. Aye. Abstains. Consideration of providing wash and electric call permission to install power lines along Leland Farm Road near the residence of Nan, Hathaway, Action Likely. Wow, that's quite a different permit than we've seen before. At least I think it is. Did we typically get all that language or did you just share it with us this time, Sarah? You typically get all that language. I just, the only thing I did was I just had to re-scan it in case some people were getting cut off, but yeah, I don't think you guys ever read the back of the form. Well, I've never read it or seen it that I know of. It all sounded, it all sounded fine to me. I mean, basically what they're doing is running a power line within the town right away out to the new house that's being built out there. Right. Peter, I sent something to Sarah earlier. I had two guys from three people walk with me on the proposed easement and they suggested that we add as conditions the language I said to Sarah. And it just says, WEC agreed to chip all brush, mark all trees to be cut, to cut all firewood, ash, maple, birch, and dead leaves and log lengths and move the logs to a location selected by the landowner and to stack all non-firewood trees. So Sarah has all that language. Okay, but we haven't seen it, right? You haven't seen it because Sarah didn't want to add it, but I sent it to her. So just to be clear, I mean, you can add, you guys can add that language at the bottom of the permit of any permit. If you look all the way down, it's like you can add those conditions. And I got a call today from Brian at WEC saying that the permit needed to be changed. And I said, we're one hour from the meeting. Michael Levine has already asked for a copy. People are not, we need to work on the permit that's been warned. And he said, well, any test select board can add those conditions at the bottom. So those are the conditions that Mary just talked about. And the guy, you know, Brent Lilly and Larry Gilbert are the guys in charge of the right-of-way. Right. And that's the language that they suggested to be put in as the conditions. So I wanted Sarah to have it just so she could read back. I mean, it sounds, it sounds, it sounds okay. All the approval of that with those conditions. Okay. Second. Okay. Can I make a comment, Peter? This is actually Michael Levine on Sandy's iPad. Okay. I just want to remind everybody, but I guess in particular WEC, before they do the clearing, there are specific boundaries marked for tree clearing with that original permit. And I just want to make sure WEC is aware of where those lines are and doesn't cut outside the line, so to speak. It's a line that shows the basically a tree line that you can't cut outside of. I don't think it's a problem, but I do want to make sure that somebody makes WEC aware of the fact that that exists if they don't know. See, Peter? Peter. Yes. Yes, Sarah. This is why we have a tree warden. This is why we statutorily have a tree warden. And so probably the person who should be contacted is Gary Lamel, because he is supposed to work on the trees in the town right of way whenever there's any type of cutting. Yep. There you go. There you go. Okay. That's perhaps a separate question though, because that's the town right of way. I'm talking about the WEC line that's going to continue onto the private property. Well, that sounds how I should. Well, no, but it does go with this request, doesn't it? Or doesn't it? Is this just for the town right of way? This is the town right of way. Yeah. We don't get involved in the private property. Well, Michael, you and I should talk, because I wasn't aware of that myself. Okay. As I said, looking at the map that Sarah sent me on the original map, I don't think there's any overlap of concern, but I have talked to the landowner about it, and he knows about it. And he's planning on being there when WEC is there. So, but if it's not a town right of way issue, then I won't take up your time with it. I guess the only question I do have though is if town issues the permit for the original subdivision with the conditions that I just said, but the town doesn't have anything to say about the private land. Like, so what happens if a condition of a... That's a zoning permit. So. Planning commission. So the planning commission would be the enforcement agency. The other ones that are gonna have to know about, they're the ones that have put the conditions in the permit. Right, but if this or any other permit around town were to be violated, is it the planning commission that is responsible for the enforcement of those conditions? I believe it is. Okay, well, that's what I'm asking. I can't think of who else it would be, Michael. It would be the zoning administrator acting on behalf of the planning commission. Yeah, there you go. Okay. Okay, good to know. That sounds right to me. Well, what you're saying, Michael, is it has nothing to do with the land on Leland Farm Road. You're really talking about the private drive that's up to the sub-tribune. Right, so it really doesn't affect what you're talking about. So I apologize for bringing it up. So moved and seconded approving the permit with the extra language that Mary suggested. Anything else to discuss? Then we should vote. And Mary, I guess I would suggest that you abstain, maybe. What do you think? Well, I'm glad to say I'm happy to recuse myself if that's what's appropriate. Well, I kind of feel it is. I don't know how everybody else feels. I think so. Yeah, okay. So it's been moved and seconded to approve the permit with the additional language. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All right. Mary, you're recusing yourself? Yes. And is anybody voting no? Okay, review and approval contract with the Washington County Sheriff's Department to provide speed enforcement. Here we go again. Yeah. And contract, contract. What do you mean by that? Well, they never deliver the service that they contract for. Well, so it's an unexeclate. It's not a non-contract. It's just a... I know, Mary. I didn't use the correct language to work. They never do what they contract to do because they don't have the available resources. And we never spend the money and we never get the speed enforcement. So it's frustrating to me. That's all in fact. I move we approve it. All second. Can you designate a signer? Sarah is the designated signer. So just to be clear, it's going to be, you guys have budgeted $7,500 for speed enforcement. I assume there's no other entity that's going to be speed enforcement. So I just divide that by $30.75 for the number of hours of speed enforcement, right? Or do you want to do what you've done in the past? Which is add more money and more, I don't know what you want to do. Do you just want to keep it straight up, Matt? Yeah. I can't spend the money anyway, so. Right, yeah. I spent, yeah. They've only spent like $4,500 so far this year. Okay. Speaking of speed enforcement, I like the post, you know, the new things in Putnamville. Yeah, they're very nice. And they, they were, I'm curious to see what the townspeople say. If it's, you know, it probably worked in the beginning, but is it continuing to work? For an Albie Bourne, yes. He's good. Excellent. Until you get teenagers driving through there trying to see how fast they can go. I was a loser off then, man. That would be like, that would be like a young Peter Hood. My darling children disclosed to me some years later that when they were in high school, when the city of Montpelier would put those things on territory, they would have contests to see how high they could get the signs to go. I've never done that. You should do it on a bike. It's even more fun. They are fast, you can bike. So Liz, you made the motion. Nobody, yes. We need to vote. We need to vote on that. I made a motion. We made a motion. And who's, who seconded? Steve. Steve. Yeah. Can I ask a question before we vote on it? Yes. Explain to me again what you said. I didn't understand that. You have a contract, but you spend any of the money. Well, they don't spend it all. We've got to, we do a contract with them. It's $7,500 and they never put in enough hours to use up to $7,500. So why do we do it at all? Well, they do some enforcement, but they don't do as much as we'd like them to do because they don't have the resources. We'd like them to do $7,500 worth, but they never do. We'd like them here more. Are there other entities that we might be able to contract with? No. They did even worse. No. In the past, we've tried the Vermont State Police. No, they're sober, but. Bob Lucas said at the last in-person meeting, town meeting we had, they just don't have the people. Right. Yeah. You know, it'd probably be cheaper if we bought all those things that we bought for Route 12. We had them scattered throughout every year. We'd buy a new one, keep people on their toes. $8,000 a piece. Yep. You can get some that don't cost that much, that are just mounted on the signpost. Berry Town has them. They put them all over the place. Never know where they're going, just unbolt it. Did they? Yep. Is it Steve? Yes. Do they say it helps? Yes. Everybody seems to say they work. So, you know, I think something we should think about when we get to our budgeting process is maybe spending some of our money doing that. I mean, we could probably spend the, spend the three or $4,000 that the sheriff never uses and buy a couple of those signs every year. I don't know. I like that idea. Okay. So, somebody has to remind us when we get to budget time. I'll put it on my calendar. Yeah. I'll remind you because I want that thing down here at the farm first. No, call for hell road. Sorry, Steve. Okay. You're getting your robe repaid this year, Steve. No, I don't want to see signs for you. Yes, I want it bumpy in front of the farm. You want it bumpy, boom. Yeah. Anyway. Spondancera. You got to vote on that motion. Oh, I'm sorry. Paul, in favor of approving the speed enforcement contract, please say hi. Hi. Hi. Any opposed? Okay. We've approved it. And you're going to designate me as signer, sign as signer. Yes. You're all set, Dorinda? Yeah, I think I got enough. I saw Liz, I saw Peter, and I think Bill, so I should be okay. Okay. I said one and two. Hold on, I just forgot to send it in. I did not approve them, Dorinda. I sent you an approval for the CVCRP payment. Okay, I just saw your email come through. I didn't open it. Okay. It skipped right over correspondence, Peter. If there was any correspondence, and I got interrupted, but I'm back to correspondence. Yeah, you were interrupted by me saying we need to vote on the motion. Right. So we did receive, and this is something that we're going to have to talk with the BCA at large with, but we did receive an appeal of the 2021 grievance from Scott Bowden. I suggest that we pick this conversation up in executive session. As you may know, Scott is already appealing the Board of Civil Authorities decision from 2020. So this raises interesting issues, but the bottom line is that by state statute, we must schedule a BCA hearing within 14 days of the final day of notice, which is tomorrow at 5 p.m. That means that the Board is going to have to meet again. I am very sorry, along with the justices of the piece, sometime between tonight and the 29th, if that hearing goes forward. And you never heard back from the guy that you know, and that's probably something we'll discuss in executive session. Is that why we've got it noticed at 6.35? We have a couple of things. So just getting that in the minutes and on we go. Okay. Do we need to go into executive session? Is there a motion? I'll make that motion. Thank you, Steve. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Phil. You have to allow, whether or not you're going to allow Derrinda and me to enter into executive session. I'll amend that motion to allow Sarah and Derrinda. I'll amend the second. Okay. Thank you. Yes. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. We're in executive session. Okay. Let's give you some time to make sure that. The recording stopped. Bye, Randy. I just have a question before we go into executive session. Okay. Are these always at the end? Like if there's nothing after the fact that that comes into play. Normally no. Because normally, I mean, there is a chance sometimes that we could take action after executive session, but normally most of the time it is discussion of.