 All right, Karibu Sana, this is the last conversation of the day at the Y244 channel at Brian Sakuwanowan and the hashtag, which is why in the morning, and as always, get interactive. It will be something part of your feedback towards the tail end of the conversation. And mine is at Brian Sakuwanowan and I'm Sakuwanowan still. All right, so the conversation of today is all about the world of events. What exactly does it take to be there? And you're being joined live in studio by Joe Momo, who's a professional MC. He's going to tell us what exactly? The text will be in that space and if at all, there's networking and what maybe you need to study for it before you professionally begin. And sometimes, you know, getting the gigs. Good Lord. You know, we've seen big MCs like the likes of Dr. Funike and the rest MCing at these big events. You know, usually at the 7th Takakui, we MC the 9th wedding of Hakkote. So what exactly does it take to actually rise to such a level of MCing, where you're making up to 100 to 250,000 or even more, especially when it comes to matters events MCing. And Karugusana Joel, you can briefly tell us how was the journey of you transitioning to MCing because you mentioned to me before we come of here that you studied journalism and what pushed you to us that trajectory in that industry. Right. So like I was telling you before we went on there, I've studied journalism in Deistar, actually still studying there. So when I got to Deistar, there were MCs, but then they were about to finish school. The MCs that were currently in that school, they were about to graduate. So I noticed there would be a niche. So that's how I began. I was like, this is something I could do because I was doing poetry before, so I was used to stage, so I was sick when I stage, right? So I began MCing, there's more small events here and there. I began, you know, doing what work on events, G-Class, Ghani, I go and see for them. So that's pretty much how I transitioned from that to MCing. Yeah, which year was this? Second year, yeah, somewhere around second year. Yeah. And what were you doing in between that before you finally settled that? I'm going to do it professionally, because you're saying you saw an niche there. Is there something that you're doing to us that before? Am I saying because journalism, you talk and then you can still talk while MCing? And first of all, maybe you can define what is MCing for anybody who has no idea what that means. There's always mentioning, oh, we need an MC, we need this, we need an MC, blah, blah, blah, blah. Who is that person? Well, for me, I think an MC is someone who is at an event to coordinate and ensure everything runs smoothly. But we have different types of MCs because how you MC a wedding is not the same way you will MC a corporate dinner. How you MC a wedding is not the same way you're going to MC, let's say a luncheon or something. Like it's different. So basically an MC is someone who is there to make sure you run the program smoothly and people are entertained. Now, that's where the different comes in, because how you will entertain people is not the same way I'll entertain people. I might have a different way of entertaining people and you might have a different way of entertaining people. That's why you see, we have so many MCs. And I don't know who it was because we are different. So as I mentioned earlier, for the question you asked earlier, what was I doing before then? Like I told you, I was doing poetry. I've done a lot of things. I've done poetry, I've done acting. So my journey into this was not hard because I've seen a stage fright. I'm used to stages, I'm used to audiences, I'm used to talking. Again, I'm doing journalism. I mean, this is something I've been doing for some time. And you said you're doing a master's at Deister. Yeah, yes. I can only imagine like the levels he takes, first degree, second and then third, now getting to a master's. Whatever the curriculum that it's in between. So those are a lot of years spent in school. Well, actually not a lot. I've been in Deister for, say, four years. The beauty about Deister is free marketing. When you leave, you can do like many units and then you can do tri-semester. So you can finish a degree in three years. Okay, that's when you're an SSP self-sponsored student. All right, so when was the first gig? Your first gig and how did it happen? And there's a place where you mentioned there's a difference between I'm seeing a corporate dinner or event and then awaiting, what is the difference? And also when it was the first, first, first, first one that you've had. Was it successful or was it a failure? Let me tell you, the first gig was a cultural, we have a culture week. So it was a cultural gala. So as it was approaching, I was like, my friends were like, bro, you can do this thing. So I was like, hey, bro, let me try. So I went to the organizers and I'm like, I think I can do this thing. They were my friends, they're organizers. So what happened is I was paid 500 for that gig. I remember very well. You had to be in Atosha Faire because it was happening in Atosha Faire. 500 Kenyan shillings or 500,000 Kenyan shillings? No, no, 500 Kenyan shillings. Yes, it was happening in Atosha Faire. So the gig was quite successful. It's actually on YouTube. I was looking at it the other day and I was like, whoa, I can't even imagine this was my first gig because it was really successful. Which year was this? This was in 2019. Just before COVID or pre-COVID? Pre-COVID, pre-COVID. That was in 2019. Somewhere around January 3rd, somewhere around there. I was looking at it the other day. I was like, I can't imagine this was my first gig. And now rising through and I feel like that's the gig that set me into the space where I was getting booked for the gigs. I was starting to get confident about it because I was like, if I can do this, that means I can now do more and more of this. So who booked you for it and how did you get into it? Like I told you, I approached the organizers. It's a very amazing guy. I even texted him during his birthday. A big hero to Nala Wolt for believing in me because I went to him. He had never seen me do anything. And he was like, OK, you can do it then. And it's a big event. It's one of the biggest events in that school. All right, let's talk about the industry. I really don't know how it feels to be in that space. Maybe also you can tell me the difference between being a moderator of a conversation. The one I've been in one was very serious, Mantis Education. So what is the difference between a moderator, moderating people talking about a certain topic and somebody standing in front with a mic and making people shout and scream? What's the difference? Well, there's not much of a difference. The difference comes in with how you engage the audience because, let's say, I'm moderating a session where people are seated. I won't be telling people, give it up for blah, blah, blah with a big voice and blah, blah, blah. I'll approach it differently. I can use ice breakers. I can use intellectual jokes because there are jokes you can make in a very formal setting. There are jokes you can make in a very, not very informal, but in another setting. So the difference between moderating, really, and now this other, is basically how you engage the audience. Because when I also do moderating by the way. So when I'm moderating, there's no way I'm going to say, oh, should you give it up for blah, blah, blah with a big voice, blah, blah, blah, and shouting in the mic, and blah, blah. But when I am doing a wedding, then I'll have to shout. I'll have to say, oh, blah, blah, blah. We'll have to dance. And the same way, when I'm moderating, you won't have people dancing all over, sweating. But when you're doing a wedding, they'll have to dance. They'll have to sweat and all that, and all that. So I feel like the difference between moderating and this other side is really just how you engage the audience. All right, is it an industry that anybody who's watching can venture into, or maybe if they want to find out, before you mention the company, is it an industry that's open to people, like just the normal people, or the one inch, and maybe what are some of the skills that are needed for a person to be a professional emcee? I don't know if you're a professional emcee, because I also don't know what professional means. Nowadays, everybody's a professional coach, professional pastor, these, that. I don't know, is there training that's required for you to be a certified one? Well, I wouldn't say there is really training for that, because it's a skill. It's a skill you can learn, number one. It's a skill if you put in the work. Learn from the school? No, no, no. Not from school. In school, they won't teach you these things. But you can learn from other individuals who are doing that. You can get mentors who are already in the industry who are doing that. For you, do you have some? Yes, yes, yes. Who are they? Well, I have an emcee called emcee Ken. Does an amazing work. Emcee Tony does an amazing work. And now the big names are also, Luftwaffe Nake is my friend. He's been mentoring me for some time as well. The one who said he's about to emcee I got this 9 to 1. Yes, yes, good money. And also, Cristi was actually doing classes a while ago for emceeing. I don't know whether they're still going on. But yeah, it's a skill you can learn. But really, if you're not, how do I put this? If you're not, if it's not something you're skilled, it's a skill you can learn. But you need a skill before you go and learn the skill. So what is the personality of an emcee, maybe, generally, either male or female? Well, let me answer for myself. Because I've seen, I'm an extrovert. And that works for me because, I mean, I'm talking, but I've seen emcees who are very different people when they're offstage, have a friend. Though when he's on stage, he's a very different person. When he's offstage, he's an introvert. You might even not notice him. He's very quiet, doesn't really need a lot. But when he's on stage, that's amazing. So for me, I'm an extrovert. I talk to people a lot. I interact with people a lot. So are there like skills you're hard to learn? Because definitely you're interacting and engaging. And I don't know how it feels to be at a wedding and then a funeral and then a corporate dinner, you can tell us. But you're meeting different mindsets, different people. How do you channel yourself into that? Are there skills that you learn to yourself that make you to do that seamlessly? Yes. So for me, first of all, when I was coming to Nairobi, I've not grown in Nairobi. So I had some few language, like H, meaning Kamba, to struggle with H and N. And we struggled somewhat. So just putting it in there. The language. I don't know what remains, but it's a familiar sound with your Kamba. Yeah, so just putting in the work and ensuring that. Because a client would know. So how did you do away with those parts? Well, it's practicing, practicing. I would call my brother, I would sit down and go over the words over and over again, like the words I'm struggling. Like let's say I do a gig. I'll know the words. I struggled it. I actually used to write them on my phone. Hey, Aponime, Aponime, Chouama. Then I go home, I'll redo them, redo them. And I make sure, even now, I make sure in every two days, I learned three new words I didn't know. In which language, Kikuyu? No, no, no, no. In English. Yeah, two words I don't know. Right. Every two weeks. So that's how you, like, killed that part here, arrows, arrows and things. Yes, yes. So with time, well, I'm not, like, completely killed it because I mean, it's inbuilt, but I've managed to, like, I can have a conversation without you noticing I'm a camper. Right, perfect. That's amazing. You have a company, by the way, you can tell us when did it start functioning professionally. Have you hired people? Is it a man solo project? You're riding solo for now. And what was the vision of that company and what is the name as well? Yes. The name of the company is Moshe Vance Limited. We have some amazing merchandise. Moshe Vance Limited. Why I started this company? This company actually turned a year old in August. 23rd, yes, an year old. Why I started this company? So it was started in 2020 or 2021? 2022. Oh, last year. Yeah, yeah. Last year, August, 25th. So why I started this company is, first of all, I was doing MC before that, like I'd mentioned. So I realized most clients would ask me, I would go and tell clients, I'm an MC. I would like to, like, I would write proposals and all that and all that. They'd be like, can you also provide sound? I'm like, no, but so the client already has a perception. They're like, hey, me not going to run your package because events are stressful. Events are stressful. And I think I need to stress this. Hey, running an event is not a joke. So in turn, someone who'd come and give them the whole package, I'll give you sound, I'll give you turns, I'll give you chairs, I'll get you a DJ, I'll get you a good MC, I'll sort out, the only thing you need to do is just give me the budget, I'll work on everything. So that's how I was like, maybe I can start doing this. So how I started is I knew friends who had these things. So I was like, when I was approaching clients now, I was like, hey, my name is this thing, I offer sound, blah, blah, blah. I don't have sound. I have no idea. So when you say sound, what do you mean? Sounding of a system, a band, a mic, speakers, a band, is that what you're talking about? Because that's a full throttle equipment. Yes, yes. It's full throttle equipment and it costs millions. Yes. Why did you get the money to buy all this equipment? Now that you're offering all of them, and you're also a DJ, you're also a journalist, you're also the MC, you're also on this company and you've not employed people like, how are you magically operating this? Well, I'm not a DJ, just to clarify. You're not a DJ? No, no, no. I have no DJ. Oh, you offer DJing services? Yes, yes, yes. Right, okay. Yeah. So how I managed, first of all, let me answer the first question, how do you get these things? I didn't wake up and buy all of them. So the first, I started in August, by December, I had accumulated quite some money. I had gigs that, I had a lot of gigs. So by December, I had accumulated quite some money. So I started buying monitors, like I didn't buy, I didn't buy all of it, no, no, no. You buy as you continue. So I bought monitors, I bought bass, bass, I bought, like, as you continue, as I make money, I make money as I buy more. So let's say, at that time, I would now, when I have monitors and I need bass, I'll get my monitors and I hire bass. So that way, I've not incurred a lot of cost hiring. Yeah, so I'll have money too for the company. So by event, how much do you use to hire or just do this whole transaction from you to the client and then back? For now, now. Even the recent one. I don't know how many events offer you. How many? I have bought a lot of events. I think more than any. Approximately for this year, how many? 150. That's a lot. That means you've made a lot of money out of that. By event, how much? It depends, because I don't charge the same for all events, because there's a client who only needs two monitors, because the event is 50 people. There's another client who has 700 people. You need a lot of equipment for that. So it depends. But roughly, I would say, 50 Gs. That's like the biggest. No, no, no, no. The biggest event I've done for Sound Alone, Sound Alone was 150. And that was a wedding or a funeral? It was a wedding, it was a wedding. Which is happening at Move and Pick. All right, yes. So maybe what is the red card? Because the ones we've seen post on social media when they post red card or something, even just me taking a photo with your brides or with your wife, whoever in that event, I'm charging 200,000, do you have a red card? Well, is it an important part of that business having a red card? Yes, yes, yes. It is an important part, because most clients will ask for the red card. Mostly in everything for Sound, we will have to go the technicalities of what they need and blah, blah, blah. But for MC, you must have a red card. So for me, it's between 30 to 100. And what services would you be offering for that matter? For MCing, just MCing. Coming and just dancing. Dancing, enjoying the guest I entertained. Yes, basically that. All right, one of these people who come to Mac, yes, they do crack jokes, but they're dressed, like ensure they are comedians. Is there a difference to being a comedian and an MC? I'm an MC, you have all these talents. You have the comedy part in you, you have the MC part in you, you have the moderator, you have the dancer, you still have the DJ. Well, I think we do have all, only that now for, you'll find MCs who, their comedian part is higher than the rest. And you find another MC who, their dancing part is higher than the other part. And another one who, like we all have those two parts. Cause again, you have to make people entertained. Like where's the end up and you're not even funny. You have to make some jokes, you have to, but it's something you learn. I wouldn't say I was very good at jokes at the beginning, but with time you know when to say this joke, how to say this joke. So something you can learn in between as you continue. And what about feedback? Cause for any business that's always feedback, and your interaction with the clients and what they say. So what was the most, I say most reputable feedback you got, and one that was not as reputable? Right, the most reputable feedback I got was from a client, Fintech. They were doing a dinner. I was providing found, DJ, and see, and stage, stage for the venue. The client sent me an email after two days. Oh my God, it was like two, two big paragraphs. And they were commending the way we did it professionally, the way we were very professional in how we handled the, the clients, how it was entertaining. Like it was, it was long, but it was very, it was very touchy. Well, I get feedback a lot from, I make sure I get feedback from every client, but the way that took just a time to write a very long one, cause when you know a short one, ah, you did an amazing job, a scientist and I hope to work with you again. And how did they write this? Is it in a text? Do you have an app or a website? Or email. Yeah, cause we do, they do the bookings via email. So I thought they'll give their feedback via email too. And how did they get to know you? Am I your famous out there and they'd know you? No, no, no, I'm actually not very famous. Well, the beauty about events business is if you book me for an event to do for your sound, MC, blah, blah, blah and all that, you'll have other people coming to the event. And all along, Am I at some point, I'll make sure I mention that we have done this, we have done this, we have done, we have the guys who have done this, we have done this. So immediately after the event, I always get people saying, by the way, how much do you do for this? Can let me have your card. I'll contact you, I have this. So that's how you build a network. There's actually an event I did at Fred's Ranch, like two months ago. The amount of gig that... Which Fred's Ranch? In, in Tadjardo. Fred's Ranch. The one for Machoka. Machoka, the journalist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you are the guy who organized that whole event. No, no, they had an event. I provided sound, I was the MC, and I also provided the 10th for the event. The amount of gigs I got from that gig, eh, crazy. I like would get calls, eh, it will go to Fred's Ranch, blah, blah, blah. Eh, let's plan a meeting. Like I got like 10 gigs from that, from that event. So that's how you build a network in the event industry. Because again, if you do a good job, that's what I usually emphasize on, because I have a team that I'm working with, have a DJ, a set DJ, if we have a gig today, that's the DJ I'm calling, not unless we have many gigs, because at least we do like three gigs, blah, blah, blah, then I have to outsource others. So how many do you have in total? The number of stuff that you work with? I have a DJ, I have two sound guys, and I have one other guy who helps with logistics. Yes. How many are those in total? And then me, so we have five. Oh, me, I'm a Bowie Speke, Bowie Child Association. Bowie Child Association, yeah, I like working with them. Right. So what is likely to go right at an event, and what is likely to go south? And maybe also in that matter, what usually goes wrong in an event, you're like, eh, it may happen, but definitely that's a low blow. Right. I'm like, if it definitely, this one is a win for me, I'm gonna get five-star credit. Okay, so what might likely go wrong? Let me start with MCing. What might likely go wrong as an MC is, well, the crowds at first, they are usually cold, because they don't know you. They're like, when you're not even at home, they have to see your mom, they have to pick your coffee, they have to invite you. What would go wrong is not managing to get them from you or Cheney, because crowds mostly live in Alangazikua, Cheney, to get them now to ask, yeah, actually it's good. You live in here, comments, Alang. Like, it's actually good to see mommy, eh, blah, blah, blah, and all that, and all that. So what might go wrong is not you finding a way, because we have different edges. You'll find an event, you're young, and you're not too pure as it. So finding that niche to water at the same time, when you're from Cheney, to now starting to actually enjoy the event, that's one thing. What might go right is getting on stage and people liking you instantly. That's. That's not what I'm talking about personally. That's not what I'm talking about at the event. I'm talking to myself, I'm talking to myself. For sound, what might go wrong is you realize the wrong equipment. Yeah. You realize the wrong equipment for that event. But the client didn't give you the correct information about the event. There's an event, the client told me, we'll only have 50 people. So in my mind, I'm like, we only need two monitors and blah, blah, blah. To not pick up early, it was fully packed. So now you have to, first of all, talk with the client, do your best, I trust you won't get the equipment. Then now you have to go for the equipment, and blah, blah, blah, so. So how do you also feel? How do you feel your equipment from your office to your best to the event? Do you have a car and people that helped you? Yes, yes, yes. We have a van. We have a van. That's your, some of it's a team van. No, no, no, no. A hired van. Yeah, a hired van. Let me say a hired van. Okay, then it means you spend a lot of money hiring. Well, not a lot, because most of, now we're doing business to business. Let's say you also do the same thing I do. When I come to you, you won't charge me as a client. You'll charge me as a business associate. So business to business works, because, again, we're in the same industry too, because even you, when we'll have another gig and you'll need my equipment, you'll need me to, again, hire to you for at a subsidized rate. So not a lot, not a lot of money. What is the difference between, you mentioned Chris Kiro, he's so big in that industry, and Dr. Fuineke as well, and the rest of them, greats. So what is the difference between an event that Chris Kiro will organize and yours? What is the bigger part about yours that will beat Chris Kiro's and Ogawbinas as well? Is it Ogawbin or Dr. Fuineke? Dr. Fuineke, Ogawbin and two does it very well. So what are some of the things that will make you outstanding than he's, or he's outstanding than yours? In short, I'm talking about competition. How do you make yours shine the best? Yeah, okay. So as of now, I would be lying if I say, I would do a better event than Chris Kiro. That guy has... Why not? You don't believe in yourself? I believe in myself, but there's something called experience. That guy has a lot of experience. Number one, he has crazy equipments, like equipments that cost millions that I don't have yet, not unless I outsource from him. So sitting here and saying that I'll do a better event than Chris Kiro will be lying. Two, but now here is what, where it comes in, it comes to competition. How do you beat competition? Because competition is out there. We have a lot of people who I'm seeing out there. Actually, competition is a must, like it should be part of your business. Yes, it's part. It should be people giving you sleepless nights so that you become better. So who are they now that you're talking about it? Who are these people giving you sleepless nights in that space? Well, we have other events companies. I have like... I'm not the only one. We have... Can you give them credit in the name of shouting them out? Yes, a big hero to epic events, a big hero to e-sounds, a big hero to Henrique sounds. They are my friends, but we compete. Good competition. What about more sounds? More sounds as well as crazy, more sounds. And we have other big names in there. We have Chefi Wale too, started doing events. He is actually, I think, the one doing for Nairobi County, big money. Yeah, so what we make... So what is yours? Yours is Moosh. Moosh events, Moosh is my name. Of Moomoo. Yes, Moomoo. Okay, get it, I get it, I get it. Now, I remember the story of Park and Chill. Initially it used to be started by DJ Pierre McKenna, who used to be a host here, still on wine in the morning, way back before it came in. Coming up with such an event, do you also need to have, maybe had a background of hosting events? Because I've seen ratings of some events to a host and... Illy Flop. Illy Flop, yes. You invested the money, you had the good people, but it was a work event. Yeah. A work event. Yeah. So, one thing I've come to learn, you can do everything. Like, I can't stay here, and that's where most event organizers go wrong. Like, you want to take the event and go away, for example, Mimi, my best is MC. And I want to do every other thing. I want to do sound, I want to do, I want to do everything. Like, I want to ensure Mimi don't want to kill Akitu. No. You can do everything alone. Most of the big events, you need people with experience in that area. I need a guy who has done soundvisory. Yeah. And I want to say, I want to do a sound event. I'll give you my equipment, blah, blah, blah, you do the sound. I want to say, I want to say, you do this, you do this. But now, what most event organizers amaze is, first of all, when you don't have people in your team who are competent enough, they're just your friends. Yeah. Like, when they come, I want to say, and you're the speaker, I'm calm. And I'm busy. They might even spoil you on any. But you need people with experience in the different aspects of events. Because events is a very wide, wide, wide space. So you need people with experience in each and every category to produce a good event. So for example, I want to do DJ Pierre. The thing is, and the ratings are still looking, the Pakenshaune, at Carnival. Yes, yes, yes. So you need people, you need people who are experienced in... So in short, it was sabotaged. Yes. Okay, so someone can sabotage an event. Yes. How, what could happen in that sabotaging situation? Well, a lot of things could happen. If it's a big event that's all on Twitter and blah, blah, blah, people could sabotage it from online trolls and all that. That's number number two. But people are buying tickets to come to the event. Yes. So you're not meeting them physically. You raise them at the event at the gate. Yes. Entrance. But, but there's online. I mean, in this era of social media, what could go really out easily? Okay. Yes. All right. We have to go. We are out of time. Maybe what is the lesson you've learned and how is your relationship with your customers? What makes you to have that repeat relationship? Because I believe in businesses, most businesses is repeat clients. They come, they tell another. Yes. And it becomes a chain. Yes. And it creates the value chain even in the eco, in the eco business world. So how's your relationship with one? And what is the scale that you harvested before we exit? Well, I usually make sure that with each and every client I work with, I have, I walk with you through the journey. And that's, that I think has made me stand out. Like I'll not be the kind of guy when you melt. So it's true. Now, I'm not going to do it. So I'll make sure I know the specifics. I walk with you through the journey of planning, execution. And even after the event, I'll make sure we sit down and see what went right, what went wrong. So working the journey with the client has really helped me because most clients, we are humans. If you are in a relationship, they really want to come back again because you've given them service and relation. They feel like their own event here. What is the wildest thing that has ever happened to you in an event? Wildest, wildest. I think at the last week, I was on stage, I was doing my thing. I took to my hype event, to my hype event, and then the stage. I was on stage. So me and my dancers. And the whole event ended? It didn't end. You have to pretend it was part of it because the clients don't know, not the clients, but say the guests. They are here to have a good time. And what was the feedback from the receivers of the event and the owners of the event? What did they tell you? Or they compensated you or the people attending? Me, because no one was falling. But then, of course, I continued. After we failed, we see Mamad took a different. We continued with the party because the stage fell on one side. So we continued. We went to the crowd, blah, blah, blah, did our thing. But then after the event, I had to talk to the organizers who had done that because I mean, I was almost hurt. Who are the biggest networks that you met since you started? And you're saying you started last year? Yes. You could give them credit and say they played a big part. Yes. They've been mentors to you. And then they're also still your networks and your allies and you depend on them. Yes. I would say first of all Dr. Fueneke has been mentoring. He's even given me some gigs here and there. Also, he sounds a guy called Edz, an amazing, amazing guy. And epic events, a big shout out to you. I would mostly tell people if they want to hire you. Do you have a red card? I don't know. You can tell them. How much do you charge from a birthday to a dinner to a funeral? A funeral is an event, please. It is an event. Yes. A wedding. You mentioned of corporate dinners, et cetera. This is your camera. Right. So if you want to hire Moosh Events Limited, feel free. We are on all social media platforms at Moosh Events Limited. We have Twitter, IG, TikTok. You can find us at Moosh Events Limited. If you want to hire us kindly, contact us on those social media platforms. The rate cards for MCing are 30 to 100 Gs depending on the magnitude of the event. The rate cards for sound depends on what you as a client want. But we are client friendly. Please hire us for your next event. Be it a wedding, be it a ruseau, be it a corporate dinner, be it a luncheon. Be it a team building, also a team building for corporates. So please, wear your guys for any of your next event. And let me ask you, brother, where do you get the money to do all this? Because you didn't just come from heaven and it all happened. Yes. Where did you get your first capital to set it up? Well, like I told you, I make money while investing into the business. I'm talking about the first inception of the first event. Where did you get the money to hire? Yes. To hire? See, I had money. I had money on me. I had money from savings. Yes, yes, yes. That's the answer. See, I had savings. Yes, I had savings. I had like 50 Gs savings. So the first events I was hiring with my savings and then now I turned it to the business after the business made money. Okay. That's really perfect. Actually, that's a good lesson. Like before you start a business, you must have savings. These people go to the bank to borrow loans, which is also a good thing because actually they encourage people to borrow loans to start a business. But they're also massively discouraged, which is not, I don't know. If you try to tell us at the comment section, but thank you for coming and sharing your experience in that space. I'm pretty sure people have learnt a lot from this conversation. Thank you so much for having me. All right. And we end it here. Thank you so much for watching from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. We definitely see you next time right here. And I'm Sakwa and have a fantastic one. See you next time.