 Hollywood didn't want him, was it because they're Asian or is it because they gave up too early? Now, when do you know when to hang it up and quit the game and when do you know to stay fighting? Yeah, this is going viral right now, Andrew because Rajiv Surendra has a new HGTV series where he's actually like an artisanal home influencer. However, Andrew, he was the iconic Kevin G from Mean Girls and he's talking about how he had his heart broken once he didn't get the life of Pie Movie. He just left the game because he felt like the game didn't want him and he didn't want any roles that they were offering him and they weren't offering him anything. We're also talking about Ki Hwe Kwan Andrew, who was data from Goonies, Wayman from Everything Everywhere all the once Andrew. He had a 39 year lull in his career. Basically he was like, yeah, I was waiting for the phone to ring and they never did but now it's okay. So Andrew, we got to talk about it because this sparked a lot of articles saying was it industry racism? How do you know when to hang it up and when do you know when to keep treading water and when do you know just when to reinvent yourself and find a new path forward? All right everybody, we're gonna get into the reactions and then we'll get into our takeaways and we might even add in our own experiences after being in media for 10 years. Who knows? But anyways guys, please hit that like button right now and check out other episodes from the Hop Hop Boys. Let's get into it. Long story short, Andrew achieved surrender. He waited six years for the life of Pie Movie. They ended up giving it to Seraj Sharma. Who knows why it didn't get Andrew? Maybe he's not from India. Maybe he's not good looking enough. Maybe 3,000 people went out for that role so he just didn't get it. But then after that Andrew, he said he went into depression and he just quit the game forever. Yeah, but luckily he also kind of got reborn or found another second career, being a calligraphy artist or like some type of drawing artist where now he makes a bunch of money doing like a certain style that only like a few people are extremely good at. Yeah, he's very good I guess at the 1800 style of like floral decoration and typography. And you know what's cool though, now that he does have that famous role, probably him getting some of those artist gigs made it even a little easier to get some of those gigs being that he's like the famous Kevin Jeans. Let's contrast that Andrew with Kiwe Kwan who had a 39 year lull in his career after Indiana Jones, after Goonies. And now he's back as a Oscar nominated Golden Globe winning actor. Now Ki's story is a little bit different though because he did stay in the industry, in entertainment and production on Asian projects and American projects but on the back and not acting. So his acting career, he wasn't away from necessarily entertainment in general. But he was behind the camera. He was behind the camera. And then he watched Crazy Rich Asians and then that inspired him to be like I need to go back into acting. I can do this, I gotta go back into it. So then- He started going on auditions again in front of the camera. Andrew, he was even like a stunt coordinator just choreographing fight scenes in X-Men. Yeah, I guess David what are some of the general reactions from people when they hear these stories or they hear some of these guys like kind of complain about how there wasn't a lot of good roles offered to them? Because these are guys, think about it. You find early success, you're like child stars, you're young, you're in your teens, you're even young- Give them some money at least. Yeah, you're getting money and you're famous and these are big, big movies and you're kind of known as these characters forever and then the phone doesn't ring again. Or if it does, it's like the worst possible role. I think that there are a lot of reasons but of course, Andrew, if we go to the comments section, there's a lot of disagreement on waiting those reasons or which ones are bigger factors than others. I mean, Andrew, let's go to the comments section. One of them was like, you know, I'm a big fan of Kiwi Kwan but I don't like that he essentially blamed racism for not getting much work in his teens in 20s and 30s, you know? It was hard being an Asian actor. It was hard even for white actors. Not all white child stars get it either. So I'm just so tired of this narrative that any time minorities don't get what they want, it's just a racial thing. But of course, obviously the counterpoint to that is, it's true, there's way more Asian movies being made in 2020 now than there was like 30 years ago. Right, right. I think I guess in defense of this comment, I would say that a lot of child actors do not have like ongoing careers. Like if they do come back, it's like they do have to take a break, right? And oftentimes it's because they kind of hit this age or maybe they developed cause they're not this cute little like data data from Goonies or short round, right? Where there's this cute kid and then they grow up and they're like teenagers or they're young adults and then there's definitely not a lot of roles for them and they don't know, and people don't know where to put them. Like, oh, they're not cool enough to play the cool jack guy in the high school movie or play the college student. Or it could even be a super niche type of a context situation where a lot of the actors from the wire, they struggled to get work after the wire because that was such a specific piece about Baltimore. If you were like a Baltimore actor with a Baltimore accent from the inner city, it was like there wasn't that many pieces made in that context anymore. Yeah, I mean, even if you look at all the kids from fresh off the boat, it took Hudson like a few years of a hiatus for him to grow into his full body. Now he's like six foot three and now he's playing like college students and young adults now versus like maybe in his teens, it was like hard to play some. So I guess what's the answer? Is it like just the game or was it racism and was it like just structural things that were the opportunities were lacking in the pipeline? In Key's defense though, I don't know what the conversations like were like back then. So if he heard racial conversations or he felt that way, it's entirely possible. Guys, we know it's Hollywood. So of course this dynamic does exist to blame it a hundred percent on it. You know, might be like, you know, I don't know, sometimes you're just unlucky. Sometimes the roles just aren't there. But you know Key, like I would say he's done a very good job not sounding bitter about it. Like it's funny, I did remember Brendan Fraser after they both won Golden Globes. He's like, Key, we're still around Key. But I was like, Brendan, you took like a eight year hiatus from making blockbuster films, maybe 10 and Key took a 39 year hiatus. It's a little different. You were really rich during that time. But Key, still he just went along with it. Yeah, thank you Brendan, you're right. Thank you Dr. Jones, Dr. Jones, thank you. This actually goes to a side comment, Andrew. And I think it's relevant, even though some people would be like, oh, this is a little bit deviant. Andrew, someone said, man, there is structural racism in media. But then this Asian guy came in and you know, obviously Asians, there's a variety of political opinions and perspectives. Asians are a very diverse population. They said, you know, Asians shouldn't have the victim mentality. The lack of it makes us successful in America. And a lot of people are pointing out that that's what Key Huai Kwan in all of his speeches, he still has that. There's no bitterness and like, Hollywood, you made me poor for 39 years and now I'm finally back. Like you could see I was good this whole time. He's not thinking like that. Now Sal, is that right? Is it wrong? I don't know. I mean, the internet's arguing. I mean, a lot of people listen after they feel like they get rejected by anything, whether it be Hollywood or another person, right? They are always like kind of free to talk trash. And that's kind of how the world is. So then they sound bitter and mad. But I don't think Key sounds bitter or mad or anything, but yeah, I mean, some people are taking it that way. And some people think that even the fact that we are bringing this up in this video, they're gonna be like, Fung bros, why are you focusing on this? You guys have victim mentality. He's always screaming about racism. I'm like, I'm telling you right now, I think it's an equation. I think it was like some racism, but I also think like he was just unlucky too. You know what I think? I was came up with this bar. I said, man, I think you can be a victim of something without internalizing a victim mentality about something. Because I hate it when people say, oh, you have a victim mentality. If somebody's being victimized, why wouldn't they be a victim? But do you know what I mean? It's almost like, it's almost losing games and they're perpetually put on a bad NBA team and they're like winning 10 games a season. You absolutely, they're a loser on a losing team. They're a loser because they're losing 72%, you know 72 games out of a season. Yeah, I guess if someone is truly a victim and you ask them, how do you feel? And they're like, well, I'm a victim right now. Oh, you got this victim mentality. And it's like, well, hold on. I'm just factually saying it and I'm just gonna continue doing work. But I think victim mentality, what people actually mean by that is that you break down, you quit and you don't wanna do anything. You retreat into just a negative dormant state. And you blame everybody else for your situation. Yeah, I always tell people, there's nothing, it is logical for human nature to be insecure if you lack security. So I just think that that's a cop out answer for a lot of people. Oh, these people are insecure. I think those people are just wanting everybody to just have the strongest mindset possible. But anyways, Andrew, the next comment was basically going against Rajeev, saying, I'm trying to understand, he took six years preparing for a role that wasn't promised to him and it derailed the rest of his life. That's what I call putting all your eggs in one basket. So these were the comments after, obviously, by the way, guys, I think this Rajeev story is going viral because it's also trying to promote his HGTV show that's coming out. So, and by the way, he is successful monetarily now. It's just not in the way that he originally wanted. Yeah, I mean, I wish someone was real to him at that time and being like, hey, man, like they're probably gonna choose an actor from India because they want the India market for this movie because this movie takes place in India. Right, like if you're in India from Toronto and you just move back to India for like three months, that's probably not gonna make them see you as like an Indian. Yeah, literally Life of Pi and Siddhartha are the two like East Indian based books that you read throughout your entire schooling. So like these are very big, this is gonna be a big movie, guys, by the way. So there's gonna be a lot of people going out for this role. I mean, They're not casting Hasan Minhaj. Yeah, here's something that unfortunately Rajeev, you know, I don't know, of course hindsight story 2020, but when you play such a goofy role in a comedic role like Kevin G, where you're basically comedic relief and you get called Kevin G on the street, Kevin G on the street. Hey, it's Kevin G. Yeah, sometimes a lot of studios for a very serious big blockbuster role, such as Life of Pi, they're not gonna want you because you're like, oh, we don't wanna get Kevin G to play this serious role. And honestly, that is like that. So, but that's like that in life too. Yeah, and I'll explain to you guys from just an actor's perspective, not that I'm an actor, but I've been around, you know, more actors than an average Asian person has for sure. Artists or people who are like artists, they can be very, very fickle people. Like I noticed, Andrew, and you know what I'm talking about, there's people in this game, they don't just want a career, but they want their career to go like how they envisioned or they want their pathway to look like generally 80 to 90% like how they saw it happening. And for some people, like Drake or something like that, it happens even maybe beyond their wildest dreams, you know, but for other people, it's like it just really deviates from that path. And are you willing to go with that like different route to your end destination, or are you so attached to your original division? But a lot of artists, you know what I mean, Andrew, we know a lot of talented people, it's like they gotta have it the way they want it. Yeah, that's fair. What's the last comment, David, before we get into our major takeaways? Someone said, oh God, I'm just so sick of these PC times. They award me mediocrity over talent. Golly, just what the F is going on, guys. And I'll just say this, I do think that there is a downstream macro movement in culture to embrace diversity. You know, like somebody was like, oh yeah, what? All the black actors were getting awards three years ago. Now it's all the Asian actors after COVID. And by the way, these comments are probably from people who are white or non-Asian, by the way. I just think this, you can never fully calculate it. I think there's sometimes downstream culture, which is the macro sentiment at the time, is anti-Asian, or Asians are invisible within that. And then sometimes there's times where it's a little bit of wind behind your back. So what are you supposed to do? Like of course, as an Asian actor or somebody and you just take it. I mean, are these award shows just trying to make up for lost times where they're discriminating against Asian actors, or there was literally no Asian actors or no Asian projects? I mean, I do think a little bit for sure. They're trying to give credit where credit is due and say, hey guys, just to let you know we're not racist and we wanna support the projects that are good. Maybe we're giving you guys like a 15 to 20% bump because you are Asian, but honestly, the movie was pretty good. Right, I mean, also you gotta think it could be a monetary thing. There's new global markets in terms of globalization and economics. They could be like, well, we told Anglo stories for like the last 100 years. I guess we're kind of sick of them ourselves, even though we're Anglo. You know what I mean? There's so many aspects that go into it. Dude man, it always comes back to this, man. We talk about this on our channel, man, where it's like people love capitalism when it is in their favor, but when capitalism and the money flows the other way due to capitalism, then people are mad. So it's kind of like this, where people are like, oh yeah, well, white movies we're all getting made because white actors are the best, right? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, guess what? You were only making movies to make money anyways. So now you can make money putting other faces on. So they're gonna put other faces on. Why does the global market want to see their own face in the movies? I missed it when they would only buy our faces. What happened to the British and the European faces being- The preeminence. What happened to the dominance? All right, Michael Cain. Andrew, let's get into our three major takeaways that we have about this. Obviously, we've been working in entertainment. Obviously, as YouTubers, you know, food influencers, cultural commentary, comedians, we kind of like touch a lot of different spheres. We're not fully in like mainstream, mainstream lanes, but I do think we have some interesting takeaways. Number one, Andrew, you just gotta keep making stuff even when it doesn't seem like the elements are like coming together and the engine's not like banging on all cylinders. Yeah, I mean, I think if you can find a way to always keep working and the work doesn't feel grueling and it doesn't feel painful, then always keep working, bro. Like Kevin Lyles is the black guy from the State Farm commercials. He's like a multi-millionaire now. Oh, we know him. We have one of his first pieces of work in the friend zone. We worked with him on a YouTube music video years ago and he was so nice on set. He was very hardworking. He showed up on time. He did what we asked him to do. You learned the friend zone dance. And this is when he first moved to LA. And then, what, eight years later, he becomes this face of State Farm. Jake, Jake, Jake. He's Jake from State Farm. Yeah, so shout out to him. I would say this, man. I've had times, even on the YouTube back end, as well as our interfacing with the mainstream TV shows that we had where things were at a nine out of 10 level, it just seemed like you couldn't miss. Things were working better than I expected. I've also had times in the past couple of years where it was like, man, things are moving at a four out of 10, things are worse than I expected. But at the end of the day, it's like whether the bicycle is fresh out of the shop and all the gears are oiled and it's just like moving like the crazy city bike, or if it's moving just like a rusted manual bike, but it's still working, but it's very grating and very grinding to do that, you still gotta ride that bike forward. So I would say that's my end of point number one. Point number two, Andrew, while you are swimming out to sea or treading water, waiting for your next big wave, would you agree that different people in different situations have a very big variance on what that like swimming out to catch a wave process looks like? Everybody's journey feels different and definitely like let's just be blunt about it. Like if you're a very social person, you're a very good looking person, you're a very well connected person, maybe your family has a lot of money already, your journey and your struggle is gonna feel a little differently. Everybody struggles in this game, right? Everybody has to do a bunch of stuff they don't wanna do. Everybody works hard, everybody works on their craft, but in that time in between, your life can be different. Sometimes your life feels a lot more down, you're out of money, you're sleeping in your car, maybe it feels like you're not a handsome or pretty person as much as other people, so you're not getting all that other side attention in your social life. Right, even if your entertainment career, and we're specifically referring to the entertainment business right now, is not popping, you're not getting the roles you want, you could still be a beautiful person just like on the beach. Yeah, and your social life will still be good despite your career being back. But however, that also can help you keep working now. Now, also on the other hand, people are just like so hungry and they just gotta love for it, they're gonna be working regardless. Right, I would say it's comparable to somebody who's like skiing or snowboarding, and you're going down your hill and you're doing your run and you're seeing what score you get at the end of your run. Some people, Andrew, have that VIP lift ticket to go take another crack at it. And other people, maybe they gotta wait in line at the ski lift and it's very packed to get another reppin', and some people, in the worst of case scenarios within the context, might have to walk back up the hill with their snowboarder skis, with the hiking boots on just to get another run down the hill. I mean, here's even something that a lot of people don't think about that ends people's careers from trying, is just family obligations. Think about it, if you've got a family you have to take care of, somebody gets sick, or your family doesn't support you or hates what you're doing, that's gonna change your mind about it too. So there's so many things, there's so many things that can happen. Anyways, what's the third thing? The third thing is that I think you generally have to stand for something beyond just like your own sort of id and ego and the things that we all stick with us from our days in high school and everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people, especially in America, they wanna be cool and loved in high school, right? And this is even outside of monetary things because nobody's really making money in high school, at least back in the day, I don't know about nowadays, everybody's doing this and that, but I'm saying all those things that are very primal and very human, you gotta stand for something beyond that to keep going, I think, in this game. Well, I agree. I mean, I think that's what we do and that's why we're still making content, guys. I mean, whether a million people are watching it or 20,000 people are watching it, we're still making content because we like it and we're just making a lot more content nowadays. And I think that it's true though, would you agree, and you do see some people who are selfish make it, but don't let that distract you if you're somebody that has a mission. Oh yeah, to make it or gain people's attention or to get these roles, you don't have to be a selfless person, you don't even have to be a good person, guys. I don't think you can be a terrible person, to be honest, even though some people say all constant woo Ellen, I'm like, dude, listen, they're bad within context, yeah. Anyways, guys, let us know what you think in the comments down below about these stories. Is it inspiring? Is it a cautionary tale? What do you take away from it? Obviously, this is a very internal media conversation, but let us know if you learned anything and let us know if you've even tried, maybe you've tried to get into entertainment or maybe you've started a YouTube channel, you've started a TikTok page and you gave up. Even that can be your situation where you can understand what we're talking about. That's a miniature Hollywood story, very miniature, but yes, it still counts because it's a similar dynamic story. Let us know what you think in the comments section below. Let us know what you think about Rajiv's story. Let us know what you think about He-Huei Kwan, by the way, from Alhambra, shout out to him. And what do you think of their stories and what do you think of, when should you hang it up in something that's not working out and when should you keep going and when do you just become successful in something that's like kind of on the tertiary, like it's on the side, maybe direct or something. Anyway, let us know in the comments section below. Until next time, we're the Hop Hop Boys, be out. Peace.