 Good evening, calling to order at the Monday, September 21st meeting of the Arlington Redevelopment Board, recorded by ACMI. First on our agenda this evening is an environment design review special permit relating to 19 Massachusetts Avenue with a request to amend special permit number 3035, so the applicant and representatives can come forward and introduce themselves please. Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. My name is Mary, I'm Stanley O'Connor and I represent Claremont Corporation. With me is Ned Kearney from Claremont Corporation. I can introduce if you want the team that's here tonight. Elias Petuchas is the president of Claremont, he's here as well. We have Fred Keylor, who's the site civil engineer. He is from H.W. Moore and Associates. And Michael Murphy, who's the architect, who's from Propan Architectural. That was Matt. Oh, Matt. Yes, sir. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Matt Murphy, sorry. That works. Oh, what do you want? Excuse me. Oh, you're assistant. Okay, I apologize. All right. So you have what was submitted. I want to first say that there was a little confusion about the number of parking spaces. I worked off of the special permit that was granted by this board in 1998, which had 73 outside spaces and 73 garage spaces and 11 outside spaces. There are actually 74 spaces in the garage and 14 outside spaces for a total of 88. If I may give you just a brief recitation about the project and our position, and then I'll turn it over if you want or whatever way you want to organize this. This hotel was built after this board granted environmental design review and special permit in 1998 to the Burkhart Corporation. In January 2012, Burkhart sold the hotel to the Clamod Corporation. They operated as a home with suites under the Hilton grant. Now, I don't know how many of you saw the original hotel or have been in the present hotel, but I've been there and it's a tremendous improvement over what was originally built, far more amenities and a much nicer interior. Presently there are 100 hotel rooms. They're looking to add a three-story addition to add 21 rooms, and they will require some relief with respect to parking. Now, I want to first talk about the public parking spaces because our bylaw talks about having so many spaces for public area. There was a board room which was approved in the original plan and there was a restaurant type area as well. Several years ago, after speaking with Ms. Kowalski and Mr. Byrne, Claremont decided that their guests did not need meeting space. They needed a fitness center. So that board room was converted to a fitness center, exercise room exclusively for hotel guests. The present restaurant area can only be utilized by people who stay in the hotel. So you cannot go in. It's not like if you go to the Burlington Marriott and have dinner there. You cannot enter the restaurant area unless you are a guest staying there. You get the free breakfast and I think in the afternoon there's someone. Yeah, it just doesn't advertise hot food type thing for guests. So I would suggest to you that the concept of there being needing to be extra parking spaces for public area is not required here because there is no public space. You also have, we provided to you the hotel kept account with respect to how many people brought a vehicle to the site. Generally speaking, even when the hotel was at nearly full capacity or was at 100 rooms, generally there were only 60 or 70 parking spaces that were being utilized. That primarily the hotel believes is a direct result of the fact that this is a hotel where there's a lot of business people that come in to the hotel and then come in by taxi or come in by livery service or come in by public transportation and then take those types of services to whatever meetings they're going to. There has never been an excess, so out of the 100 rooms the 88 parking spaces have never been utilized. I went through the 357 nights that were there and they've never been utilized. What we would suggest is that the board has the ability to reduce the required spaces to 80% of those required under the off-screen parking table. That you have the ability to grant some smaller size spaces for compact cars. And then as I set out in my letter, under 812C you can modify the parking lot or I would suggest here the garage to provide for staff parking. And that section of the bylaw specifically refers to that. And I looked in our bylaw to see if there was a definition of stack parking and as you know there isn't. So then you next go to the building code to see if they have a definition of stack parking and there is not. But I went to Wellesley's, I found a definition of the Wellesley bylaw and stack parking talks about the parking of cars one in back of another such that one or more vehicles may have to be moved by an attendant. I also found an opinion written by Ms. Kowalski when she was the planning director in Reading for the Goddard School that talked about stack parking. And my, there's a case, Bruce you may be familiar with it, Brida versus I think town of Holliston where the zoning board or the planning board in that case allowed a special permit and allowed the use of stack parking to get to the total parking requirement. And the land court said no because your bylaw doesn't give you that ability, doesn't talk about stack parking. So I would suggest to you that you have that ability under A12C to modify the capacity for this underground garage. And I would suggest to you that the hotel is totally prepared to use a valet service to facilitate that. Now you have in your handout, you have the renderings, you also have the parking counts, you also have the Arlington Conservation Commission. We spent a considerable amount of time at the Arlington Conservation Commission and they looked at various parameters for this building and they actually wanted us to take the outside parking and do a zip car type thing but the bylaw doesn't provide that to make up parking spaces. But we, the Claremont has agreed to compensatory flood storage of two to one ratio and improvements to the riverfront area in buffer zone. So there's going to be a little over 5300 square feet of new plantings in that area and also there's going to be an additional 2,600 square feet of plantings on the hotel site. In consultation with the town engineer who reviewed all of the plans, Claremont has been requested to install two leaching catch basins at Henderson and Salwins Street at that intersection and a new flood vault in the northeast corner of the garage. Now we had two meetings with the neighbors. They were very receptive. There was no negative comments about this. They had some concerns and I will tell you one of them is they'd like the hotel to refurbish the underground parking garage to paint it, put more lighting. One of the neighbors said that she thought that some of the hotel guests were parking on the Marley property because if you go there you can see it's hard to differentiate. So what Claremont did and what's the Marley property? Oh, I'm sorry. It's the CVS Monotomy Group where the two of them come together. So what Claremont had been doing since that meeting is specifically saying to guests as they check in, where have you parked? And if they parked on that site they asked them to move. Another thing is actually it was Alan Tosti who said he was in favor of this project who asked that the hotel be willing to maintain the town, for lack of a better word, parks that are out in front and have maintenance clean it on a regular basis because apparently there's a lot of trash and things that catch in there. My clients prepared to do that. Where are these parks? They're right out front. They're not really parks. It's actually the public. He's talking about the public space. He's talking about Alan here. He's talking about here, isn't he? I believe there's some sort of little park here. If you're looking at the street from the hotel to the left which means 16 in the hotel, that's just overgrown in more of a landscape of maintenance. That's what the neighbors expressed interest in. Where is it? Bench seating over. Park set up right around here. It's not that big. You're in the water there. And then there's the bridge to the culvert. Comes underneath the culvert. Is it a landscape zone along the back of the curb? Back of the sidewalk? I believe it's a public park. Just like a 20-byte small. How big is it? I want to say like 20 by 40. It's not big at all. There's maybe a bench for sitting there and it's along the bike path or jogging path that cuts across there. Apparently this great deal of litter that gets accumulated there. Do you think it's 10 now? The owner would take charge of keeping that clean. Not the owner. We would agree to keep it clean on a regular basis. Yeah, the owner. The owner of the hotel. Yeah, sorry. No, no, I thought you meant... No, no, no. Now Alan Toskey pointed out that the addition would likely based on what the hotel is running at for occupancy rate result in about $80,000 more a year in hotel tax and then of course the increase in real estate taxes resulting from the increase in debt. So that would be my presentation if we'll do it in whatever order you want to do the presentation and the site civil, the architectural. Just let me know. All questions? I think I'll open up to the public first. Any questions? Yeah, I live at 21 Carterjab at Russell Botash. I live at 21 Carterjab which is directly behind the hotel and unfortunately I wasn't able to attend the two community meetings like my business takes me out nights quite a bit. But a couple things I was concerned about is the two dumps is directly behind the hotel which is not owned by the hotel operators. There's a lot of activity there that shouldn't be happening. These people are very responsive they're already contacted the owner and he's going to agree to repair it. But there could be some mitigation with some trees. They planted some pine trees in front of the fence. They're really not maintained that well. They don't really block the vision of the parking lot which is what they were intended to do. Maybe some obivities or something like that planted along that side I think would go a long way with the activity in the parking lot. So that's all I really had. That's just clarification. So sir are you talking about the dumpsters that are on the hotels lot or on the Marley lot? In the parking lot. Who owns them? I think the property owner with CVS and doctors offices I believe he owns them. I know back I was involved when they originally had the hotel come to town and there was a lot of concerns about it a lot of things. I believe he was supposed to maintain a lot of those. I think that if my understanding and Carol you can correct me if I'm wrong is this is one special permit that covers all those properties but the hotel is in separate ownership than the lot that the CVS and the gym is on is that correct? That's correct. I think Mr. Bartosz understands that I do but also when you're out in space and I have seen people park there and go to the hotel and like I said my vision is directly behind and just if there's some mitigation with some landscaping it would cure a lot of the issues. It's real simple fix. Thank you. So what I would add is that with respect to the public space my client would of course agree to a deed restriction that the space in the hotel could not be in the sense of a pay restaurant could only be the use that's used right now to alleviate that and then I would only add that reviewing the master plan that was recently done I think that this addition fits the the other gentlemen who are here are also making presentations Yes. I don't mean to disrupt you as well but I just said no. Sure. For the record Fred Keyler from HW Morris who is project civil engineer the board here is one of the crews that we prepared on boards over here to my left the proposed addition is colored in orange if you will the existing hotel Massachusetts Avenue is over here as we're looking at it this is the driveway comes down the hotel, the red outline is the end of the existing building so the addition comes off the back presently there's a tennis court here play area and that location in the sidewalk leads to it there's extensive plantings you'll see on the drawing that's flat on the table in front of that plantings around what we've highlighted in green on this plan it's much prettier on that plan but the green spaces will be planted with trees and shrubs and so forth and there are also extensive plantings on the ill life work side of the public path that are done by you or by somebody else the plantings on the other side of the proposed plantings the landscape architect Nelson Hammer in connection with the conservation commission decision sorry the conservation commission decision requires that we do substantial plantings where are they they're showing better on this plan oh gotcha sorry sorry sorry there's two scoops of vanilla on the board that's a much better plan so this is is that the DCR land this is the ER planting what we have to do to comply with the concon it was mitigation as part of the conservation approval process because that's the riverfront area or it's either riverfront or buffer it's within the 200 foot riverfront area yeah and so the new footprint hardscape here Andy is bigger than what was occupied by the basketball court before plus conservation commission required moving the building as far away from the Alec Brook as possible so that meant that you're taking out six trees so compensate concon required more planting in the area closer to Alec Brook the removal of the six trees was on the other side I think so yes the removal of the six trees is on the property right along here along the nose in for the existing parking stalls if you will and the property goes right up to that edge who owns that it's DCR property line is a couple feet off the back of the building and then the rest is DCR probably goes to the other side of the Brook as well but at least between us and the Brook it's DCR got it sorry about that I'm sure so as Mary mentioned we went through an extensive permitting process with conservation they looked at all aspects of the project drainage and the compensatory flood storage which Mary mentioned we're providing compensating at two to one ratio we had meetings with the town engineer regarding drainage he reviewed our proposed drainage we've got two subsurface infiltration systems below the building that'll handle our runoff our increasing runoff from the roof we have slightly less pavement which is a good thing in terms of runoff and pervious surface area associated with the building these are designed to handle the two 10 and 100 year storm events we did Mr. Schenard did review this and he did agree that we would comply with your storm water mitigation bylaw in terms of parking the dumpster is located here it's just going to be a little bit restructuring the parking spaces along that edge we are replacing there's a catch basin here part of the drainage mitigation was to remove that existing grade and replace it with a high capacity inlet grade get the water into the structure into the drainage system quicker pick up some of the water coming down the driveway and get it into the storm drain system before it passes by there's about 2600 roughly 2600 square feet of additional and pervious surface area primarily associated with the building and as I just mentioned that is mitigated by the proposed storm water management system can I ask a question is it raised up or something can you get a question the building is elevated on columns I like that too up here or a boardwalk yes why is it that's how the flood water can flow underneath it as it can today what does the water do there the water in a hundred year flood event would back up and go underneath the building right now we covered the tennis courts in the grass so that allows the water to do it at those today and then when the flood recedes it goes and does it go into those spaces it's not intended to what are those things again infiltration here let me turn the page here it's 12 inch perforated pipe it's for the roof drainage from the building to come down roof storm drainage sure so that's designed to take all the roof water and on the other side on the other plan is the parking that you removed where's the parking you removed of the 14 we're not removing it the existing curved line that edge we're not getting any we're just restriping them and pushing them out there's nothing underneath the building that's all for flood it was a tennis court that was going on in the six trees that we spoke of earlier it's not high enough either that sums up the civil engineering aspects happy to answer any other questions what's under the existing building at the same level oh parking parking garage this whole okay got it it was built as part of the original building we're adding another small one to get us to the 2-1 thank you birthed with pro con incorporated so just kind of continuing on with what I was talking about here so this is the end of the existing building this is that existing flood storage vault that's already there so we're building off the end the location of the building was based on where we have circulation from the existing so that we can continue that right through like I was saying the lower level is all on piers to allow for the flood water to come in and then work their way back out it's seven rooms per floor and I'm three floors away from the rooms and elevationally you can see this here with the way the existing garage is underneath the existing garage level goes down into here that our floor our floor height is like six to seven feet above the existing grade so we're maintaining that so we can keep our floor-to-floor is the same it also keeps our roof line the same and then architecturally we're trying to keep the same vernacular there the same building material so it looks like it's a seamless addition on so from the front side where the public mainly sees this we've got the brick continuing through on the back side, on this side you can see the flood storage grill work that goes in here which will have some relief doors in it the grill work to keep some of the life livestock or wildlife out so that we don't collect those and then along the the actual river side itself it's a fiber cement siding material and so we're continuing that same look so that we kind of keep the continuity all the way across within the flood vault underneath so the clearance in the new building is not as tall as this where the parking is the existing parking goes down to about here it's a full story down this is only probably four to five feet exposed and the bottom of that is that grade are you going in? this is grade, this is the existing grade we're not really manipulating any of the existing grade as we go around the parking is there and we're just kind of moving on as we come out the existing vault that's in white with the car behind the truck it's just a raised parking it's a raised vault I believe there's some planters on the edges of it along the top of it there's some plantings along the top of it here to kind of screen it as from this side but it's just a concrete top right at the room level the first floor rooms look right above it so we try to screen it and dress it up a little bit right at the same level? no it's right at the same level it's right here so it's like a terrace almost in front so you got to keep it nice yeah thank you would you like to review the parking plan? yes as Mary mentioned before we're not changing any parking externally other than restricting the ones along the face of the new building so if the change is so required would be within the garage level itself this is the sort of a composite view of the site plan and the the overall building and the overall parking garage with the entrance here which is right there so we've got the room the idea would be to tandem park along the edge closest to A.Y. Brook if you will allows for better maneuvering at the driveway entrance so in these would be parking spaces that the attendants would move the cars as they needed to let people in or out and so forth so we've shown I believe 13 tandem stalls that we've striked on this plan and that would make up for the difference I'm sorry could you go over that where are those? T1 through T13 oh are in front of the existing stalls are 90 degrees to the wall so these would be perpendicular to them so one car would block a couple of spaces and so forth on the down line and those would be managed by attendants I have a question about the parking it wasn't clear to me like how will the valet parking work at what point will you trigger valet parking who will do the valet parking is there enough staff there? what's going to happen there because that's exactly my biggest concern but it's just going to be someone going out and moving cars it's a lot different than someone at the ready we have put I believe in the letter 80% the hotel had to start an occupancy that would trigger putting the valet into process we have people working at the hotel around the clock at the hotel there's always best attendants, assistant best attendants people working there that would be a number where we could start after tracking the parking history possibly use the spots and we need to use the tandem assisted or valet parking so once it reaches 80% occupancy the conditions in the special permit require that you institute a valet program that then parks all of the spaces as valet I just don't see how practically that works I mean sometimes you're going to valet but once you reach 80% occupancy you have to go valet irrespective of whether they have cars or not so you're going to ask everyone for their keys when they check in no matter whether you're at 80% or not because you're not going to know we'll know because we're on the Hilton reservation system so we'll be able to look out weekly in advance what our reservations look like we'll have history of monitoring room stays and room nights so our staff will be able to know okay guys we're approaching that 80% time to trigger the valet so we'll know well in advance it won't be one of these instances where one night all of a sudden we hit 80% and we're scrambling for valets and we'll have a good sense of where we're looking on occupancy each day because we project every day for occupancy we'll be able to react quickly to that and based on the history do they have the history of the occupancy levels I'm actually looking and so I guess something that triggered something do you mind if I can something that triggered is Mary I think you said they've been telling people not to park in the parking lot lately and if you look and this is just anecdotal because frankly I haven't done the math until as I was sitting right here if you look at June 2015 well first off I'd like to understand how all of this was done to begin with how was the audit done? we'll send whoever's working with the desk that evening through 11pm when most of the guests have arrived and walk through and do a physical account but you don't know that people didn't park in the other lots I mean so until recently you haven't said don't park in the Marley no no no October October of 2014 is when one of the ladies in the neighborhood mentioned that so they've been telling people since October 2014 because I look at June of 2015 and you're near capacity on parking especially let me put it a different way if you go up by 20% in rooms which is what you're doing you're going to be in I think it's at least 14 of the 24 days or just in June you would have needed to be in the tandem parking and I guess you know I guess I'm just a little bit nervous about the notion of kind of an ad hoc valet in this situation because I think yeah because I think it's easy for people to park in Marley you know so I guess I'm just a little bit concerned on that but one thing to keep in mind sorry to interrupt for us guest satisfaction is very important so what we can have is people not having a place to park so you know for us we've got to watch this closely and June is probably our busiest time of the year April May and June are really our busiest time but for us we've got to stay on top of this because if our guests come to our hotel in Camp Park they're not coming back so for us in terms of valet I mean that's something we're going to we're going to be able to monitor we're going to be able to project out and we're not going to wait you know until we're 80% to institute it we'll be ready so that if there's a chance we hit 80% that night we'll have our team ready to go explain for me how this would work if I'm a guest at the hotel and we're in a valet scenario where do I drive up where do I meet somebody to park the car what am I doing well there is a quarter cashier kind of well there's no quarter cashier there's a pull up right in front of the hotel where you just pull up and you stop there that's usually where a bellman of all items self service usually what a lot of times happens is people will pull up and they'll either unload their bags or unload people family will go into the hotel or they'll pull down into the garage and we do have a elevator on the first floor of the garage that takes you up to the hotel rooms so when I drive the car I stop outside the lobby let off the bags let off the passengers I then would continue driving into the garage and there would be a valet person to meet me there or do I just leave it outside and go into the front desk and say here's the keys how does that work there would be a valet attendant there would be a valet attendant we would either station them in the garage so the guests can pull down into the garage or they would be stationed right there at the front door they would have to be signage directing people what to do when this was in place yeah because you also need to make sure that you've got a place a comment area where the keys are stored so that you know which keys belong to which car it's pretty difficult with a hotel operation and if I do remember I'm just sort of thinking about it it's a private parking garage you know when you pull into the garage that's the spot where the attendant meets you and asks you how long you're going to stay and then you'd surrender the keys and hope you find your vehicle a few hours later I'm not kidding about that I did have a question back to the plan for just a second if I understand I mean we've got a parking plan so we've got the top portion is really just a segment of the portion of the body because the parking spaces begin with parking space 4 on the left hand side so 1, 2 and 3 are off the page you have to sit down at this end so this piece is sort of cut off right about here so we are missing the tail end okay and then right because that's where 1, 2, 3 and then 39, 40 and 41 would be right okay Mary I agree with your count about the outdoor parking number I think you're right on that I do have it's sort of a dimensional issue though on the parking aisle that needs to be 24 feet which we could reduce down to 80% correct under our for special permit but your parking aisle with the tandem space is only 16 feet well I think that you can make an exception under 812C if I pull that out and I look at that if reasonable alternative measures have been taken to meet the intent of these standards minimize traffic congestion enter into parking lots I think that gives you the ability to make that exception for the valeting of cars I also note and you probably remember from the original decision that was provisioned there that the Burkhard agreed to use a valet service to mitigate traffic congestion I don't know if you remember that that's on page that that's under section 1011A to read the condition the petitioner is also permitted to provide valet parking to accommodate additional automobiles if further mitigation is necessary halfway down the page in the decision from 1990 well I want to go back to what you just said about section 812C that allows conditions to be modified to increase capacity if the following conditions are met and for the sake of argument I'll agree that they've been met but that's you've got a very specific provision in 812A10 that says special permit granting authority may grant a special permit to allow the reduction of the parking space requirements to 80% of that required on the table of off-street parking regulations where conditions unique to the use will recently justify such a reduction and I think it's been consistent with the board that we've always said if you're talking about the count of parking spaces is that 80% number I've never heard someone for example argue that under 812C we could reduce the parking spaces down to 50% or 70% and I'm willing to read this section 812A10 where it says parking space requirements would apply not just to count but to dimensional requirements can't get myself down I mean 80% of 24 feet is 19 something for the aisle for the parking aisle I don't see how you get to 16 In the case that they're using a valet situation which would go limit the thing to 16 feet that's 100% valet operation I don't know that it is so that's where I'm kind of perplexed by the whole thing because I think what happens is fine if you want to say that you know your reservations and everything else but you don't know who's parking where 2 days before leaving their car and getting around town who's got a 4 day reservation so you didn't necessarily take that person's keys so that person all of a sudden is parked in one of those spots over there and comes out to get his car and there's a tandem it sounds like a mess I don't agree but maybe you can explain all you can say if you park on the spot is in tandem is the self parking portion but the problem is he's talking about the drive-on I can't deal with this at the end of the day we're in the hospitality business these folks have to have a positive guest experience in fact if they don't what happens is they report to Hilton many of these stays are Hilton rewards once Hilton starts getting bad reports then the actual flag the franchise becomes in jeopardy so we've got a monitoring of Hilton on this as well but we're in the hospitality business if these folks are coming here and they can't get their car they're not coming back and we're going to lose a lot of business so doesn't it make sense to have the valet on all the time not from an operating standpoint because if we're 20, 30, 40, 50% occupied to absorb that cost is not feasible but believe me but looking at the numbers it looks like that's not the case when you look at the numbers based on our occupancy when we ran 171 room nights last year at 100% occupancy and we used how many parking spots let's go back further 100% so that's 78% of the spots so we ran 171 rooms last year 71 room nights we were full sold out and we used how many percent net 78% of the spots can I ask a question from the other side for a second how many spaces are you counting on outside okay where are those spaces right where are those spaces that's good let me just pass this so they're outside so we have 14 spaces outside I know space is going to be used for anything yes so will there be any other spaces that you used outside of the 14 outside the building how do you know that other spaces won't be used in other parts would you be able to there are no other parking spaces outside they can park out in the parking lots when we're not on the property they can park on someone else's parking right so you you have to police that in some way say a hotel guest will park only on the hotel but when they check in they ask do you have a car and there's signage as well so when I'm working back guys on this are saying these guys are running a hotel with largely an interior garage they're going to manage it the best way they possibly can this is not impacting outside of this is not like a business where suddenly they're going to be parking across the street they're going to be parking in somebody else's lot they have to manage this valet parking operation themselves I could see different ways to operate you might sequester one side of the garage and let the left side be self-park it depends on how your business is working if it's so successful that it's all valet then that's your problem you're going to be not running it like a low-end hotel you're going to be running it more like a mid-level hotel where you have so I'm just wondering why what the endgame of the argument against it is I mean I see it adding up to them actually providing a good parking operation that stays within their own site yeah and I guess I get a little concern that that's another cost and there's parking out in the other parking lot and then all of a sudden there's a natural tendency for someone to go into the parking lot see there's no parking see this other parking lot over here and just park now they may not be happy guests at that point or anything else but you may never know it and that parking lot is already a mess the Marley parking lot already has basic overuse with the gym, the CVS and everything else and I'm just afraid that this is going to cause more stress on that already stressed piece of property it'd be no charge for this and I understand all of that but I also know what I do as a guest and I'm going to just do I really want to give my key to you or do I want to just go park somewhere and come in so it lends itself to it's not the best plan occurred when you look at the data and the data shows that we had 78 room nights that were 100% sold out and we didn't use all our parking and that's simple data that's plain data yeah and I guess I hear you but it seems to me that's rising at least from what I'm looking at that if you're at 100% before it looked like you were around 66 cars you were around 63 cars but in June you're at 100% you're doing 78, 80 73, 74 you're well above 70 in like I said 14 out of the 24 days that translates into if you just multiply it by 1.2 you're upping it by 20% you're above the 88 that you have for basically all of those 14 days maybe the response to that is the months that there's a clear pattern of more cars, graduations whatever the case may be to have a lower trigger for the valet and the months, the quieter months, the winter months so for instance maybe it's 70% for the months of the busy months, April, May and June 80% for the other months this is a franchisee of Hilton someone a small operator they have a vested interest in making sure and frankly I know the board puts in all the decisions that you retain jurisdiction you could always bring it back and say hey we have some concerns we're going to make it 60% we're not happy with what's going on you always retain that jurisdiction the other thing is I believe and you can correct me if I'm wrong that there has been some police policing of the Marley parking lot because there should be no parking in that lot after when monotony grew up so I believe that they've been towing so any guest that parks there is going to have a very unpleasant experience outside parking spaces is there signage outside to say that it's solely for guests in the hotel as well as when you enter the property and use the garage encourage the garage in that sign in regard to the representations about capacity you know I think that I hear what you're saying and I understand that you know the significant portion of a guest may be arriving by cab, by livery service public transportation but even with your own audit there are some nights where it's down to zero in terms of empty spaces you've had minutes to that so I don't know the other thing is as much as you can say we're not getting capacity very often the problem for I think the board basis is you know the bylaw is there we've got certain flexibility we can reduce these requirements I don't really see that we've got the ability to add what Attorney O'Connor suggesting that we can then take H12C and reduce it further frankly I'm not quite sure what H12C really is meant to speak to if there's a specific reference in the H12A that says we can do 80% well I think versus you look at section 8 street stack spaces well it doesn't, it's not defined but how I went to just various definitions that I've found on the internet a lot of the stack space diagrams and images and so on, referred to ones that have mechanical lifts but I'm prepared to accept that it doesn't have to be that way it can be any parking arrangement where you'll be able to move cars so you have more cars in the parking garage than there are spaces to maneuver them around you should just say LA no, stack is a term of arc in the parking business so I'm to accept a petitioner's definition of stack spaces it's interesting that the parking article 8 only refers to stack spaces in that one spot, H12A where it's talking about the dimensional requirements of the stack space which by the way are greater than what you're showing on the planet the stack space has to be 8.5x22 except for the end space where you could move a car in from either end and I think you're showing 8.5x17 so but you've got room here to play with that and you've got a small flaw that can be addressed the flaw that I just can't get around is the aisle well, but I don't think you need that size drive aisle in a valet situation well, I mean that's you need that size of a drive aisle in my opinion if you've got public moving these things around which would be the case if you weren't tandem stacking them for the valet and I honestly boosted otherwise when it says maybe modified to increase capacity of drive aisle and I would argue that that's to increase the number of vehicles then why do we have the direct language of H12A10 that says we can only go to 80% because you know that bylaws are not perfect things okay so now I go back to there you're worried that they will have enough room to create a valet operation in there what I'm saying is that it's the petitioner is using H12C to increase the number of parking spaces let me try a different one if they put if through the cost of the valet operation yeah there's a business cost to that they increase the amount of parking within a smaller area thus not spilling out into other areas and I would argue that there have to be something in place to say there's no hotel parking anywhere else but on their site on penalty of something if they do all that they are actually doing a good thing for our town in effect they are reducing the amount of space used for parking they are reducing the demand on asphalt for parking they are being more efficient with parking so a valet operation which is very rare the town is not going to have a valet operation but a private business can be allowed to have a private to have a valet operation which would benefit the overall parking demand so I'm not sure I see the bylaw the traditional aspects of valet parking in a private institution maybe it does I have to put my way around but I see the bigger picture of it actually benefitting the parking conditions yeah I guess I'm reading 8.12C to talk about all these other things that we have in parking areas for example the size of landscaping and if you have outside parking lot the landscaping just can't be a buffer around the outside some areas inside the asphalt or green space were you mentioning a park yeah I don't know if I just haven't seen it I don't think we've ever really interpreted the bylaw to say that 8.12C can reduce the width of the aisle did we ever interpret it to allow for the valet parking that's a good question I don't know if we have I don't think we have except the special permit that Mary you mentioned the same special permit talks about valet parking it talks about putting more cars in there frankly that's really what I interpreted especially for the site the current one now I did run this by Mr. Bernan I sat down I met with Mr. Kowalski and I met with Mr. Bernan separately and I told him in my reading of that section he thought that was plausible plausible did you ask him specifically about the width of the aisle no I didn't ask him about the width of the aisle I asked him about doing the stack parking in the garage that I didn't ask him alright I see that as a that can be definitely distinguished just make one comment about the aisle width your bylaw was for parallel spaces 12 foot width so 16 is more than adequate for valet parking for attendee parking on a parallel basis it was 64 hours it seems to be minimum by 4 feet and they would be moving the cars for the 90 degree stalls to let them in and out from the full access to the full 24 feet if someone were parked at a 90 degree those install were needed to exit the area that's if it's only a one way aisle though that's only if it's a one way aisle so if you're reading from 812 813 yeah that says that if it's a two way aisle it's 24 feet if it's one way traffic only then you get the parallel 30 degree 45 degree but if for valet is only one person driving would be parking those in or rear in 90 degrees I guess if we're unattended it would be a problem if it is valet then okay they're only moving one car at a time and I guess I'm just about to make a concern about when is the valet in operation so what was the original valet it was a very general statement a region that the petitioner has requested a reduction on the required parking spaces to 80% of that required are 84 spaces his justification is that the site is certified mass transit average hotel occupants in greater boston is only 75% occupants in multiple rooms may come in one car and other state visitors will come in and transfer to the hotel by taxi or limousine the petitioner has also committed to provide valet parking to accommodate additional automobiles for the mitigations necessary so I would suggest to you that if it was more than 84 the board that decided this decision understood that they'd be valet in the garage can I add one more thing we're currently under construction in the hotel in brookline it's a homeless suite it has 130 rooms in this situation we have an underground garage parking ratio there is 0.5 and we wouldn't be making that type of investment if we weren't comfortable with the parking ratio so I guess the I don't think any of you sat in on that decision no they contemplated that there would be more than 84 cars but I think there's a way to address it maybe it's a lower percentage in the busier months and based on the information they already have they know they have to have a valet pretty much every day for April May and June preventing them from parking off site because bottom line if the business can operate themselves why do we care unless they spill over or affect outside of their property why in a way does it matter it forces them to be more efficient why does it matter in a valet situation I'm curious I'm just valet is a good thing I think it is always a good thing however it does become a bit of an enforcement issue we'll never know we'll never know whether people are parking off site we don't know whether they're actually doing valet it doesn't matter whether they're doing valet or not they're parking on their own site all that matters is they're not affecting but I mean if they're not doing the valet then I think the repercussions are that crux of the question but is it going to check out valet parking and become self-policing the other businesses I'm sorry to interrupt but I feel like the other businesses would start to crack presently are self-policing and I think they would continue to do that we know there are CVS signs they're letting you know keep these for CVS customers whether that's part of the plan or not in one way that the existing tenants on the budding property are trying to keep those businesses rotating we'll come in and they can put a sign if you park on if you park on this other site you're going to be towed there's ways to address it I do a lot of traveling when I see signs like that I don't even take the risk yeah exactly tell a guest park on site and that's the only danger is that there's a spillover and I think you can tell you know the two meetings the community neighborhood meetings were very positive and I think you can see from the response today of the neighbors why was the basketball court was that a public accommodation it's a requirement but I hope that it's a global park well it was supposed to be a swimming pool but if you remember Mr. Marley appealed the decision of this board and Burkhard I can tell you because I had represented him at the time Burkhard agreed to take the swimming pool out and a few people put the basketball court what was the basketball court I don't think there was anything back there I mean the hotel was originally very dear to me I was shocked when I went and saw the beautiful John did I had a question about the bicycle parking it's just it's a computation question so if you're going to wind up with 97 spaces you need a bicycle space for every 15 parking spaces so 15 goes into 97, 6 and almost a half times it's a rounding out for bicycle so you actually need 7 but we don't get my guess yeah not too many bikes well you're right on the bike path you're going to open up a whole new niche is it public just a quick question construction schedule I was and if there's somebody we can connect with the development team if there's an issue during construction phase yeah I don't think there would be any normal work hour construction going on nothing at night just I'm involved in construction I'm very familiar with total tall buildings sure we'd be happy to connect you to the right person okay so how is the floor plan for the old building how do you access the move this is the existing corridor and right now it takes a jog right here there's a room here there's actually windows that's why there's this open space here that would be landscapes so right now you come down here and you get existing rooms as well and then this darker over the lines you'd be eliminating this escape and putting it here okay so that escape goes over then you just have a straight shot down to the left got you it just ends at the existing stairs now lobby here no this is right here you can see the entrance you drop off here and you continue on and you go to the garage here so the lobby is right here okay that's a good idea perspective of the room size and things like that really so yeah yeah currently for the outdoor spaces that you set are marked for hotel guest use only is that by means of sign I'm sure is it printed on the pavement what's up do you notice the outdoor space we have a area outside that faces mass ad that you can only really get to by going through the lobby but it's contained by fence and things like that as far as signs it says I'm not up to the public I don't believe there is we don't have an issue with but you have your own road parking spaces for the outdoor parking spaces the 14 that are outside just to discourage people who might be visiting the other businesses each sign right here on these exterior spots they're podium signs that say these spots are used for held in on what's we've guessed only those exist now and am I wrong? I think you've got your own drive down there right isn't there a physical separation between it is shared I thought it was for some reason between the two yeah I guess I was thinking a little more but you're on the other side of monotomy coming in you're on the right and then I see you come back out in regard to managing the valet parking so if you reach that trigger where valet parking goes into effect and you have guests who have already parked in these interior well okay I guess but you're only talking about moving the tandem spaces so you could open that up to get somebody on the interior out those tandem spots would be the last spots you'd use the valet would have control and presumably your front desk person is asking someone as they come down are you parked in the garage did the valet park your car yeah if not the valet is what you're going for is your other project that's a .5 when you mentioned is that valet no self-park this is what 97 spots for 121 so that would be what percentage I can't do it in my head that's about 80% still it's a higher percentage than the other one it doesn't even contemplate that way 80% 81% we don't have valet I think I can actually read the two to be together because here is just saying what's required and here is saying how you could meet that requirement to get those 80 to get that 80% in there because it's to increase the capacity of the parking lots in order to jam the 80% right and I'm coming around to the idea that it's in a valet situation that's going to be one direction only yeah so maybe you've got the 12 instead of the 24 right even if I haven't quite embraced that rationale I can see that I can apply the 12 yeah no I'm coming around yeah so that's on the 24 right you can never go down to 4 but here's where you get to the 80% 80% does that require where conditions are unique to these we're using just such a reduction so we can move it down to 80% right maybe modify the increased capacity of parking lots which don't really have anything to do with the other piece and my point was is I don't think that's kind of I don't think it's saying you can go below the 80% there but I think what it's saying is that the space you have can be used more efficiently to meet the 80% reasonable alternative measures have been taken to meet the intent of these standards to minimize traffic congestion to separate parking lots from the pedestrian space for an adequate drainage yeah I'm good to address your issue in a potential spill yeah that would be a suggestion and you can address how to create management that would in no way endanger no way increase that management might be a lay some of the issues because I'm still arguing that it's actually creating a more efficient parking situation but as long as it doesn't spill over and I do believe your numbers and your business model I can believe what you said telling me that it's actually working that way so in that case I think if you were able to apply such measures and you were able to be monitored or checked in some way the condition it could be put together some guidelines I mean I will tell you that it's helpful to my client that it's over a hundred dollars a day to rent a car to come from an open airport so it's cheaper to take a taxi to the side we were out in Franklin Tennessee this would be a different issue but the economics of it makes it more likely that people are using other alternative ways to get to this stuff because of the excessive cost of renting a vehicle and of course of driving an Aston but we can come up with some guidelines of what percentage what they will post the signage to tell other people checking at the hotel and the garage we can put all that together you have to give your which is what you do anyway so for a type car you drive so you're going to be monitored and you know who you are or you can't park other than outside you could create a form as well with this on you can tell other people the more of a hotel parking that's standard when you're checking at hotels and you can put something together I mean it's kind of a hybrid situation I mean it's not out in the middle of something where it's parking all around that's what you're expecting because you're going up on the highway and it's a little bit different because it's a facility but it's a different kind of a hotel model you have to be at least to the fact that they're actually able to make money with a valley situation with less percentage of cars is there any space to host outside events or the people who aren't guests coming in that would be one of the conditions they would agree to that there would be no public news I can tell you when Burkhard owned it they used to rent the front room because it was on the club in Arlington we used to go there and have meals that is not the case with the Hilton group you can't even go in and get a cup of coffee unless you're a hotel person I know that you said that there was no restaurant I didn't know that they were outside no, no the board room which was a meeting room was taken out because that would tip the scales that was clear it's also much easier to get to Alwey on foot now than it was when they first started to see our greenway so I don't know more people do make your guests aware of that but they can have a walk to Alwey station didn't get guests it's a big song point for us it would be Alwey right there people take it into Boston they walk or they cab it from Alwey both a lot of the Cambridge business is good for people and we have a bus stop right there as well do you have a shuttle to Alwey? it's not a bad idea if you get enough I don't think they get that much demand they don't what's the right percentage that triggers the valet requiring the right percentage of hotel occupancy for the institution of the valet service are you okay with the blended approach of the busy months say it's 70% and the other modes the quieter modes 80% yeah I think that I can I can get there and then just for clarity the busy months are May, June or April May June graduation yeah I've got a few ideas for special conditions so I'll just throw these out here for the members to consider so in addition to the applicant will include bicycle parking for seven bicycles the applicant will require or institute valet parking at applicant's cost when the hotel occupancy rate exceeds 80% of capacity except in the months of April May and June when the valet parking would institute when the occupancy rate exceeds 70% of capacity when valet parking is in effect no guest will be allowed to park vehicles themselves in the garage the tandem parking space is shown on the garage level parking exhibit prepared by HW4 may only be used when valet parking is in effect surely tandem parking space is shown on the garage level parking exhibit prepared by HW4 associates may only be used when valet parking is in effect the applicant shall provide with a proper parking management plan that would discourage guests from parking offsite of a hotel property for example warnings of possible towing aside from hotel guest use of a hotel there will be no other public use of a hotel for example conference room, meeting room or food service would accept the food service that you have now for the continental breakfast or tea or cookies or something like that I think that's all I had then of course compliance will come right we can put that in a special permit but that does sort of stand alone and I think it's also reflected in the plans yes built according to what I think covered in there a letter that we made it a condition there will be no self parking when the valet service is required as well as the ones you said what we could do is we could accept their their condition with your modification you know the May and June 70% and then still add bicycles and your parking management whatever you did the petitioner proposes a condition that's paragraph there if you just amend that with your 70% you picked up all of the and you said I think though in the letter we now determined that there needs to be 13 parking spaces for valet parking so it's 12 I think Carol got the whole thing I think we've covered everything good my guys so let's go to the last part the draft condition the only special condition is 6-5 little parking spaces but I want to be sure is that the number that is to be added because there's 3 now there's 4 now so 3 additional 4 I totaled if you just said something that would be the first time the supporter of that that was just conversation I'll I'll move to approve the plans presented with the special conditions all in favor thank you very much thank you very much great good luck no that was hail you got one complete good luck with your success yeah thanks thank you designating a member of the ARB to serve on the community preservation act if you want to volunteer there's not many of us I'll take 200 members soon I'll volunteer for that if we want when's my first meeting can it be after the quarter after this meeting meeting schedule is not going to start okay I like it even better Monday night football Thursday Thursday night football unless someone I mean well you know were you going to raise your hand no because I just don't know how much longer I know there would be a good way to keep him here but I wouldn't be an ARB member I can't at least disqualify that's right you would have to be a different person I'd have to resign since I was appointed who would want you to do that so is that what people wanted or I don't care yeah we do want you we wanted to do you think him I wasn't thinking of anyone for yourself I think there are a few that are probably going to be up in the air pretty soon the other boards and committees who have to designate someone to this committee are taking formal action so I recommend the board act make it formal designate micro care as ARB member to serve on the community preservation act second and likewise to the master plan implementation committee you can take a step back from this one which is why I put forward on the other one too old what are you going to do the department is the millbrook but I'm happy oh wow well done well done is right I would be willing to I could do it do you want to do a a co see can we do that I don't see why not this isn't you may want to designate your alternate maybe more that way I think so let's do it that way I'll volunteer Andy is the alternate I'll move discussion before Mike you well I can use an alternate I'll move that Andrew Vanell is the designee redevelopment board member designee for the master plan implementation committee with Andy West to be alternate second pointees also right oh we need to do those don't we have them we need to we probably need to approve them I'll move to approve Joe Barr and Wendy Richter as the redevelopment board appointees to the master plan implementation committee second alright then we're on the master plan who's seconded I'm sorry I did Bruce so long as I'm not the CPA committee member who ends up on this board I gotta make sure I don't attend I gotta attend that meeting just jump to the right to the next one yes the the next agenda item is related to the interest the objective of trying to move towards electronic meeting packets electronic giving you the ability to have a tablet in front of you with first select then and I believe the school committee has done the IT strategic plan does include this item having the board go in this direction it will require that we also eventually work towards having applicants submit plans like this electronically you would have to do a lot of scrolling because these are large but it is done it sounds very simple but it's an interconnected task so the reason this is on the agenda is I just want to see if I can give you enough information and answer enough questions so that we can get a general sense that is this a direction or do you support this and you think this is practical and beneficial to the idea is it will reduce paper we hope but we also think that once this starts it will be easier to keep a database of the special permits the conditions the plans and to be able to search conditions so that if you want to search where have we made parking exceptions for lack of better words where do we have public access no right now I don't think we can necessarily do a quick search you would have to go to some degree by institutional memory in the staff through all the hard copy files some of the addresses have quite a large file because it's been amended so many times over the years so there's some real advantages to going this route once you start everything is electronic hence forth and everything from that moment back would have to be at some point scanned and added to the database that's a whole separate task so this is that's the general gist of this an early step in this process would be just getting the board tablets to use during meetings and also getting a scanner so that if we do have large format plans during the transition period we could scan them for the board so that you could use them that way so is this something that you feel ready to do? I think so I think I guess the only thing is and this is being a little bit of a ludic is with respect to comments and that I mean I think we all take everything we have and just start making notes and everything else I mean obviously on a pdf if you've got Adobe Acrobat Pro or something like that you can make those types of comments if you only have reader or something like that it becomes a lot more difficult to take notes and that type of thing so I think there can be drawbacks depending upon what it is so I think that's the only thing I'd point out there I would like to see if we can get information from the other boards on how they're addressing that I think one of the things that makes our board different from most other boards in town is how much we use plans and getting that to fit on a tablet you're going to have to shrink it down so much that you're going to lose dimensions and you know some other you're going to be looking at this or you're going to be looking at 12 different pages to see one plan so that would be my only concern but I would not want to do away with the paper plans because I don't know just my generation I'd see things better on that than I do on the screen I agree I think that we would continue to expect one full roll set for the meeting and I also think it might be something for us to consider and discuss with the IT department whether we could get a screen in here and be able to in fact that might actually be an improvement right now just because of the physical layout very often when the board is looking at the plan with an applicant the butters what we're talking about so if we're up on a wall or a screen where everyone can see it that could be an improvement so let me make a note to get you some information on how the other boards are making notes and comments and also the large display of roll plans any other means to be able to continue to use a set of large roll plans do you feel that when you're at home your reduced set is sufficient or do you still know you probably have an impulse to scale things once in a while from a full sized set but maybe not, maybe usually I work with a smaller level 17 or whatever you give us maybe use dimensions I mean the plans are dimensioned alright well the staff will pursue that I wish I could be pursuing it with you in the future yeah just stay yeah just stay yes just stay I think that's the plan I have put it large just to ask about whether the town would provide a tablet for the boards used during the meetings the town has provided tablets for selectments used during meetings and I have put in a budget request for is forward to have tablets to use during the meetings we'll see how long the budget request fairs I think that's the idea, I think that's the expectation I think when we're talking to the tablet companies they'll get good press maybe they'll just give them to us because of the ACMI yeah exactly do you use the product placement exactly the product placement they do it in the NFL and we're just like that exactly just like it is the number so I'm going to keep power if you don't mind the next item has to do with possible zoning bylaw there's two categories I'd like to have the board consider it one is a set of zoning bylaw amendment concepts that I'd like to consider if there is the possibility of a special town meeting there is also the more long range zoning changes that we would like the board to be considering preparing to bring for annual town meeting consistent with the master plan so there I'll do the zoning bylaw amendment concepts for a possible fall town meeting we should know whether there is any likelihood I do not advocate trying to have a special town meeting just for zoning bylaw amendment changes these would be just to if a warrant opens for a special town meeting I would like you to consider getting these in one is what I'm calling private recreation and this is basically all three of these basically look at how certain land uses in Arlington have occurred for a long time and says let's legitimize these, let's make the zoning map consistent with uses that have been there for a long time that we expect should continue so the first one is private recreation and it looks at land owned by the Winchester Country Club and the Belmont Country Club as well as the Arlington Catholic playing field and makes those uses allowed by right I'll talk about the two golf courses for a moment the two golf courses have land that extends, Winchester extends into Arlington and Belmont Country Club extends, yes that's right so do you want to make copies do you want to make copies I can share it's key these properties are in Chapter 61B which is a state tax program that allows property owners whose land use is in forestry or agriculture or private recreation in other words that depends on being kept undeveloped it gives them the opportunity to apply for a reduced tax assessment and both of the golf courses have been have had that tax designation for some time there the Chapter 61B requires that if they wanted to ever sell in the future they would have to pay the difference between their market rate assessment and what they were assessed at under this reduced assessment program for the previous five years and they would have to give the community a right and first offer right first refusal and so this says if excuse me the concept behind this is there may be some real benefit to having land held open and this gives the opportunity during the time that the state program would have you evaluating your back tax and evaluating whether you want to acquire it it would give you the opportunity to evaluate whether to keep the zoning or change the zoning but it basically says there are private recreation areas and we acknowledge that and want to provide for that and allow for that and possibly even intend for that in the future the next one is cemetery conservation district there are the purpose of this is to acknowledge that there are natural resources and historic resources that abut the cemeteries in Arlington this makes cemetery use by right where there already are cemeteries makes sense the special permit requirement from the current bylaw post dated the existence of the cemeteries so they never had special permits there it would come as a historic Prince Hall Cemetery the historic old barian ground Mount Pleasant Cemetery and the privately owned St. Paul's Cemetery and right now if you look at the zoning map they're in R1 and I think it's pretty obvious that there's never going to be stable family homes and cemeteries so this says let's zone them for what we really I don't think there's anyone who would say well we don't expect a one to be cemeteries and if they did at such time if there comes a day where our technology and our culture and our needs would say let's not have these cemeteries anymore there again the town could consider an appropriate zoning for that time so but it also said that if we did kind of play a rezoning in the future we would first try to do something to protect those natural resources and historic resources the last one and so this would take this would say that residential commercial industrial development would not be allowed in the cemeteries it wouldn't give it its own zoning designation it would make it a cemetery conservation district gotcha the last one is the institutional non-profit district and this would be for properties that are churches or museums or treatment centers or cultural institutions and this one essentially covers would allow these by right where they are provided they're not for private gain that's a phrase that's already used in the bylaw these would be non-profit institutions it would include properties owned by all of the churches by almost all of the property owned by churches not every single one and I'll explain in a moment also the property owned by an occupied by Jermaine Lawrence school and schools for children schools for children schools for children so it basically says those organizations will be those non-profit organizations will be allowed by right in those districts and it would remove them from residential commercial or industrial a couple examples of why this it's it could take that map down if it's not too hard this one this zoning map that's on the right that's not too big a deal put that down and we just put it back afterwards but here is an example where this is an R1 zoning district which is and has been for decades a church it's between it's on mass out it's between 2B2 districts with existing businesses if that were not church it doesn't seem to me that we would really want single family homes in our business district it just doesn't make sense but it could be the next years that it could be but not with an R1 it wouldn't happen with an R1 but it could instead of going to so there are a number of these parcels that are currently zoned some of them have other zoning so I wanted the board to consider if a special town meeting this isn't anything you have to decide tonight but if a special town meeting is of other reasons I project that it would probably open sometime next month so if it did open you would want to decide if this is something you would want to pursue you did want to pursue this the next step would be to communicate with property owners about the purpose of these zoning districts it should be clear that these would not change their current use if anything it just reinforces their current use so the the other zoning I can answer any questions right now well in each instance it's creating a new district so you'd have for example let's say the cemetery conservation district you'd have this new if this is a sample of the proposed table of uses changed just like you have all of the residential and commercial industrial you'd have a new one private open space and it says yes for these uses you'd add a new you'd add a new new district header and the table of uses and for example private open space there's already a farm use in our bylaw and that would be allowed by right there is already park playground or outdoor recreation facility not conducted as a private gainful business that would say yes that means allowed by right there is already used country fishing tennis swimming skating golf club or other so in terms of the nonprofit district so nonprofit district just a concept you don't have to take these suggested uses but just to for discussion purposes uses I've put for the institution of profit would be it gets a new designation district header in the table of uses would if you pursued it and you would designate what would be allowed with a yes meaning by right and what would be allowed by special purpose a lot of little well there are a lot of little parcels of the same district ones these blue guys are all in a what you see similarly to V1 you see V1 district is scattered so that's concept there I can answer questions I have a couple questions on the private recreation district are the golf clubs not conducted as a private gainful business it's not a public course I understand that did I make money they are they have to have nonprofit status chapter 61 so I intended to check up on the secretary of the secretary of the commonwealth you can look up the corporation status of an entity that would probably make sense and then just getting a little bit more into the details on the table of use regulations on the accessory uses would be departing from how we view accessory uses in every other district by saying yes so I'm wondering if that might be better off for open the gate for accessory uses on the the same area I think that makes a lot of sense I can't imagine there would ever come a time where we would decide that an existing accessory would be used for anything other than a cemetery or that the coroner would think of any other use what probably goes into not being a cemetery that is a little bit of a no-brainer on the institutional nonprofit district churches can go anywhere they can they don't really need a district unless you want to keep all other things out and a lot of churches and denominations that go through physical struggle wind up having to sell their building for other uses and that may be the only way that they I mean they're putting themselves out of business but that may be the only the only answer for that you do have to dispose of all of your assets anyway to effect what's happening the way Jesus' approval has to where it's going because it has to fulfill the purposes consistent with this is unlike I understand what you're saying but this is unlike the nest egg with a private property owner because it's not supposed to it's not supposed to be a nest egg it's supposed to be dispersed but in some cases some churches may actually be in debt they need to have the alternative repurposing of that property for housing or some other use so I don't want to be careful that we're not closing off a way for the institution to have a graceful exit instead of continuing I was discussing this with Mike today because I wanted to have a conversation with him before the meeting and he brought up Saint Jerome's and the board in any instance the town can rezone and in fact I would say you would like an opportunity to have a chance to rezone to something that is a use that's consistent with the master plan place in the right part of town so I would say we play devil's advocate a lot when I'm talking with Mike we both try to really kick the tires on these things before they come here to prime time prime time is time meeting but you're off-broadway so let's say Saint Jerome's had been in non-profit they knew they intended to sell they would say look we need to sell this property and at that point the town might even say we really don't this is a good time for us to reconsider what should go there and this is an opportunity to rezone that and you can then do something consistent with the master plan perhaps better than what the outdated underline zoning would allow the owner to do it could be a better proposition for them and the town I'm my belief is that having that moment is helpful for potentially the marketing of the property at that point when thinking of disposing of the property but also something that town really would want to have an opportunity to do that but I think getting there is the tough part on this one I think getting to that initial underline zoning changing at the first time that's all well and good if they were currently institutional non-profit district but I think this is a battle way out to try to get these folks to how meeting to understand that this is something that in the end will be a good thing for the town as a whole given who these folks are and probably the fact that frankly I don't know that they're going to be too excited about the concept so I don't think what you said before but I think what you said before is do you folks feel strongly enough about this that we should go out and see what these different constituencies feel about it I think actually it's a little bit backwards I think we should see what the constituencies think before we really put a lot of because I think the cemeteries make sense I can't imagine where that would be an issue with the current cemeteries with respect to the other two I guess I'd like to understand what the current users feel about this because in the end it will limit the possibilities for them on a go forward basis until unless something has changed again in the future yeah so just as I think while we're in the brainstorming mode on this have you given any thought to a municipal and school use district no some communities have I haven't one of the reasons is we currently don't have in our bylaw and I think we should have a lot of communities have is if there's a municipal use that can go anywhere in town I think in a town at garlington you really should have that and that's a simpler proposition than taking existing property and saying these are the limited places where these uses are going to go well it wouldn't have to be I mean you could make a go buy but you could still have them go in other places so are you suggesting that because it would be consistent with the idea of zoning for the current use I mean it's inconceivable to me that town hall is ever going to be anything other than town hall if that happens at some point you'd be zoning for whatever you think is the appropriate use in the foreseeable future or the library or garlington high school it is consistent with this intent of this bylaw concept because I think the high school right now is R1 I don't want to build a single family house it is an anachronism I think there was a time when that the lowest density zoning district was considered the safest default position and there are a lot of reasons now why you wouldn't want something to be zoned R1 or residential business or industrial but I do see your point about changing the zoning on town property I'd have to think about a little more and look at the map of the existing town property but on its face at first glance it doesn't seem it seems consistent and I think that it would demonstrate a lot of property owners that you're doing the same thing we're trying to be consistent across the board and whether that's it things you could do with a property like the VAV unless you went back to town building the no sorry the old disabled the one down by Leg and the Heights because it's town owned now and they're talking about a lot of different things which means that we go to town meeting but then just circled back to the previous discussion if ultimately we decide there's a very good purpose for that then you and keeping with the master plan you rezone it to what you want to see no I'm saying so we are eating or we are the own champagne or whatever so give it some thought you don't have to consider acting tonight or acting at all but if you do think that this is a direction that it has a variety of merits and it helps us in a lot of different ways and if you do think it's worth trying to do this for a special town meeting if one is called then actually we want to have it on an October agenda I think it's worth as Mike said reaching out to the constituencies there property owners to see what they're I think that would be helpful information maybe on this meeting okay so I'm going to Laura's going to present with me on this next one these are some implementation steps that we tried to get a jump on already excuse me could I ask one question about the previous discussion that's the chairman yes does this have any effect upon the computation under the 40 being one and a half percent I suppose it would if the uses do not include residential, commercial or industrial yes if the new uses if you changed the zoning parcel of land and it wasn't allowed and residential, commercial or industrial were not allowed it would not be considered buildable so it would help us it would help us with respect to one and a half percent it could I think that's something a target we have to always keep our eye on anytime we change the map I understand we're definitely aware of the implications of it all so our implementation steps from the master plan that we've tried to get some momentum on already but then there are some some of the implementation steps that there are a lot of implementation steps about zoning the ones that staff recommends the board consider preparing to present a town meeting spring, not at the fall that way they are ready for the fall that's a mixed use parking residential development and neighborhood protection and other zoning changes that are for near term the more immediate priority of zoning changes so with mixed use there are some simple things we already have mixed use in the bylaw the bylaw that even encourages mixed use but when you start to do mixed use you find some impediments that I don't think were intentional so this would be a way I think it's important to start looking at what are those impediments and how do you overcome those impediments a better definition of mixed use including a a really good commercial component so that it's not just a token amount of the space whether that's determined in advance on where it should be in the building or not I think it's in the master plan it says that was very important to the community for the master plan process also allowing reconsidering some height limits and also some incentives to try to realize some of the connections between the bike path mass av and water bodies millbrook and adjusting parking requirements because I don't think the bylaw currently considers shared parking or daytime shifts in parking demand between the two uses we also think that it's time to look at parking our minimum parking requirements we are expecting we're talking with the metropolitan planning council about a parking study of existing parking utilization residential not neighborhoods but multi-family existing apartment buildings how are they using their parking at night is their excess capacity so we can start to look at what is the right what is the right parking ratio now for residential development there is concern about the size of tear downs and reducing this trying to look at setbacks also trying to look at a way there are lots of two-family, traditional two-family houses replaced by pretty steep center front and center driveway that eats up the front yard basically and creates a lot of very large curb cuts where there used to be a walkable sidewalk and we've heard a lot of concern about that and there are ways we think that that could be possibly brought to town being still allowed for rehabilitation or renovation or completely renewing a two-family building so do you want to quickly run down the other near term one I think they speak for themselves here but the point of this memo is to just kind of get the board sense of whether you think this is a direction you want a little more work on this are there any things any zoning bylaw amendments in the implementation table that you think would be out do you think this is the scope of zoning bylaw amendments to bring to town meeting following master plan so when I look at certainly mixed use learning from history so I think the last time we tried this I'm not sure we went in with a full enough notion of mixed use and we tried to do something very small and I'm a little bit I guess I'd be a little bit concerned if we weren't going to figure out how mixed use is going to ripple throughout the zoning bylaws to make sure that we put the can we do that before the spring to understand and to give full thought to each section of the bylaw and how it might be impacted or affected I should say by mixed use I think like I said was it two three years ago at this point two three years ago when we tried to do the mixed use to see if we couldn't get a little bit more flexibility in you know parking and the like and I think because it didn't necessarily take a look a little bit more holistically at the zoning bylaw and how this is all going to change I think that was a problem and I guess I'd want to make sure that we're kind of thinking through these that there'll be more longer term notions than they will then maybe what we're trying to do there does that make sense? To that end I think the design guidelines that we worked on right after the master plan was adopted I think should be helpful they should be helpful they're not the complete solution but that's the direction that's the kind of thing trying to provide a little more detail about how would it be implemented what would the consequences be used the building on what Mike said it would probably be good for us to go back and actually look at that presentation at town meeting and the objections that we put because I think we probably will need to have answers to all those questions or avoid those questions from coming up having a better design guidelines and a better way of explaining this at town meeting well right and I think to that end it's got to be this is the first step that we're not planning on changing in two years time I mean this is our mixed use I'm assuming this will be our mixed use zoning bylaw it won't be the mixed use zoning bylaw until we redo the bylaws right it's not an interim step this will be the step and I think that's that's what we use to that end right and I think that was I mean it would be good to have it as complete as possible but also learn from our previous experience with the objections that we got from the floor just refresh ourselves as to what they were and how do we answer this yeah and the recodification question is important and your input on that is very useful we're not feeling like we want to do that because it's a whole year and you come out with something that reads better but you haven't it's just a process you know but also not to miss development opportunities if someone wants to develop under the current bylaw we will have that result on the ground even though it may be under outmoded zoning that the community doesn't want anymore we'd live with it for another 50 years minimum so that's another reason why we're anxious to have more substance reflect the master plan so my only concern with not doing recodification is that by not simplifying I think it is difficult to talk about zoning and that's my concern I mean we've got a very complex bylaw right now, zoning bylaw and we just saw it tonight it's hard to reconcile it's hard to reconflicting exactly so my only concern is as we start to do kind of wholesale and bigger changes to the bylaw itself without that initial kind of okay let's make sure it all works together that changing it then you know you basically got this house of cars and you're going to start pulling here, pulling there and without giving it a better base giving it all these other things so I don't know I'm a little bit concerned I guess as we kind of go through that so and you're you recognize we're not saying we would never recodify no no no I absolutely recognize that that might you know that might still be on the table my concern is unless if that's still out there or if you know these other things are I guess I'm going to take two plus years and I believe it but I think you know where Mike's going on this if I can say you always say better than I do but you know when we have a hearing and someone has applied for a special permit for a mixed use project and they're raising parts of the unamended bylaw to say oh but under section whatever I'm actually allowed to do this and it really wasn't part of our analysis when we put in the new mixed use provisions it's just an oversight because we haven't recodified the thing I think that would depend on having the mixed use amendments components being crystal clear on what rules well I think you know you can draft in a way to say not sending any other provision of the bylaw this is what happens in a mixed use right yeah yeah excuse me can I make a point I think I'm the only one in the room in the recodification of 1975 it became effective in 1975 some of you guys probably weren't even born it was a long process but what took the pressure off is we had the moratorium yeah I think we were the first community in the state to have that went up to the Supreme Court and we won but that took the pressure off so we were able to do it and it's still with all that and a lot of people participated a lot of meetings and we still didn't get it all right as you know and we're dealing with this huge and somewhat cumbersome sometimes contradictory sometimes what the hell does this mean package but the issues that are being brought forth that many of which are listed on this page are things that are going to come up I mean development ain't going to wait for another two years I don't think we're going to get another moratorium at least nobody's even talked about it this stuff is going to come up next week, next month next year for sure and we can't we can't take the risk of the good is the enemy of the best we can't wait for the best in this case we've got to do some stuff now and the mixed use thing is one of them the trouble is with your old your previous mixed use thing it looked like a trojan horse for bigger and better residential development which is not what was wanted in the center that was that's the way Loretty phrased it and that's what carried the meeting I think the big issue and I guess you are going to get to it but let me just say it's why I came is the residential thing and you've got that mentioned down here the devastation by the developers who are coming in putting in these mega houses with the double garage and the paved front yard and I can tell you one thing that you could eliminate with a one sentence warrant article is the scam that says you take this little house with its attached garage you tear it down but you leave parts of two walls standing and you build a mega house with a foot print and say that doesn't require a permit or anything because we're just changing the same you just take out the words on the same foot print out of the bylaw that deals with our traditions one sentence that would be a quickie and you can go anywhere in town and talk to people who run into one of those things so I think the key is we just need to make sure as we kind of you know, do start pulling the cards that we need to we need to make sure we really figure out what all the work is on I think that will be awesome So generally speaking do you think this is a direction staff should go and try to prepare I think it's one, two and three is what we're talking about four are sort of other things that we're not falling high priorities right now not for spring right unless you tell us otherwise I think one, two and three certainly is biting off a lot yes it is I think one, it's not explicit here but I think I'll make sure the staff knows that, I think the mill district relates to item one mixed use yeah let's follow Bruce's suggestion and find out what remember what we did if we could if we could make ourselves comfortable enough with the good and not the best and I think actually Mr. Warden pointed on that that was one of the objections that we ran into was that it had one small commercial use component if you could set aside all the rules and put in a huge residential development now I remember that but I think we're getting at this because now we're saying there has to be a really viable minimum commercial metric to it, it can't just be an ATM it would be like a perfect example and I think what's going to be important in all of this is the is the involvement that's the right word of the master plan implementation committee that's going to be key is to really get them to kind of hunker down if these are going to be the three areas that we're going to try to make progress for for the spring, get them on them as soon as possible and get going because in the end that will certainly help carry the day on each and every one of these this will be the first order of the spring standards the design standards of the port or something do we have needs a little more ceremonial conclusion doesn't it I apologize there will be another aero in the river so that's the zoning anything else so I can jump to work tracking now if you wish please do you just this evening took care of the CPA committee the ARB seat of the CPA committee and the master plan implementation committee I believe that the Board of Select will act on the town manager's recommendation there should be a capital T will act on the town manager's recommendation for the vacant seat one of the two vacant seats on the board on October 5th so and I have reason to believe that probably because of the new public no I I'm hopeful that things are warming up a little bit with getting some action on the other vacant seat and the board still needs to name its liaison to the open space committee there was a candidate but then for circumstance change so she withdrew so trying to work on getting another open space committee for the board's consideration not going on with the buildings right now the housing corporation of Arlington is we are at the end of the extensions allowed in their currently they are interested in a one-year term their term their current term ends June 30th and they would like a one-year term I think that in our from our perspective the town's perspective that might be very wise because there is a feasibility study that will is just about to begin on updating the senior center the council on aging space and the senior center space in the building and there may be some consideration as to whether there's sufficient space and whether there might be more space desirable for other for that use or for other town uses so I want the board to give some thought to whether a one-year lease makes sense and if so we would put out an RFP for that I would like to see if you want to give some thought and then have it on your next meeting to determine unless you have sense this evening and want to just go ahead issuing an RFP it's a one-year RFP is it the same for the mural? it is, if you headed towards the mural but the office is on the left it's 777 square feet why wouldn't we want to do that? why wouldn't we want to go for a one-year because most of our leases are longer I think the district of the watershed is a one-year lease I can't I mean does it have an offer for one-year? what kind of tenant would like to stay? we have to put up for another year unless they just stay as a tenant at will we can do that but properly we should issue an RFP issuing an RFP going to the fifth process takes time and effort so to do it just for one year is a little bit of a waste but they are unsure of whether they would be interested in staying for another year the town might actually want possibly they could stay at will and then both people have flexibility does that put us at any disadvantage any liability? I don't know but it's a question I can get answered I suppose you could still have a temp seeker these from a liability and get a certificate of insurance if you want to you know this a longer than one month notice right let's see if I misplace something sure you were also speaking against that back wall so take a look over there too here it is oh good relief you were over there sorry so there's also this we've I think the town manager's office is preparing to issue a contract to sterling architects to do a feasibility study on updating the space Andrew is on the feasibility committee which is thank you for doing that because I wasn't here so good to have some continuity the contractor is finally after these many years going to begin work in early October to restore the porches on 23 Maple Street and that did get a certificate of appropriateness from the historic district's commission and I spoke with the chair this morning he's very happy that the work is going to proceed that work I believe will should be done in a couple months great we are still waiting to hear from the Commonwealth about their decision on who will get the privilege of leasing to the Department of Mental Health and Department of Developmental Services we submitted a proposal in July there are seven other proposals competing with us so I have to try to see if I can it's a fool's errand but I feel compelled to try to get them to give me some update anyway they're very tight-lipped they don't typically say anything during the time they're considering the proposals central school paving we have money in the capital plan we don't have money we have authorization to use money in the central school account for the sites paving and the disabilities commission considered three of the five we need to develop those into fit specifications if the grading is changed for any of these we would have to go to the historic district's commission so I think the next step is that needs that needs more work with the landscape architect city when I don't have to talk the academy street entrance of the building is in touch with original brownstone steps I'm afraid they need to be replaced the foremost historic masonry expert did a report on those steps this year and I even made him look under the steps to see if they could be flipped and repurposed because you can do that with bluestone but these weren't cut in a way where they could be replaced they will probably be replaced with wet cast concrete if the district commission for that yes we do, that's right and the bluestone and concrete steps that are a little closer to academy street need to be repointed and you know the railing was vandalized and I also understand as a way to make it more A&A compliant so that has to be redone so it's a lot of work and the Jefferson cutter house we are awaiting big specifications from the architect who prepared the building assessment over the winter we received a matching grant $65,000 will be reimbursed by Massachusetts historical commission that has to be done by June 30 so it's a very tight timeframe but it can be done I wish I was going to be here too I've heard about all these things but I'll have to be a spectator and we talked about the electronic meeting materials concept in that direction we talked about zoning bar law amendments we have no update at this time on the old bulk district and on the East Arlington project roadway paving is underway and you have seen that there's a lot of reasonable time on the benches if there's anything that you expected to see on the work tracking report but didn't let me know and I'll add it for next time most of these are just standing items and then you know updates are involved so if you want to add something at any point any questions concerns Google for minutes no comments none for me none for me I've moved to approve the minutes of the August 17th 2015 on the building board second before we adjourn this evening I want to say thank you to Carol Kowalski for all her hard work over the years you will be missed I had something planned out in my head earlier today but I've already forgotten it you have been a great help to me in my brief time on the board I know that Laura will do an excellent job but you will still be very sorely missed by all of us thank you I will miss all of you I'm very wrapped up in this I live here and I'm very passionate about the work and I love this work and I really enjoyed having a great board to work with I'm going to miss working with you so once in a while I'll come and sit in the back that's right I'll keep my mouth shut unless something like the CVS or Google so thank you you can have too many CVSs I really appreciate each and every one of you and I've enjoyed so much and I've just considered myself very very fortunate to work with talented dedicated people and to have the skill that I've had on this board available to me and your civility is very very appreciated so thank you for being great I've made it a pleasure I'll miss you you've done an incredible job I mean I was here right from the when you were when you were a gleam in the eye barely a gleam in the eye and we interviewed and brought you on among a lot of good candidates and you grabbed ahold of it and presided over some really important things for the town and with a great spirit and at great attitude with well with all your your board and I mean your planning department and your board and did some really important things for the town just a fun person to work with while you were doing it it made it enjoyable for a lot of us you got to preside over lots of different members that aren't even here right now and you know take care of the obstreperous board at times no obstreperous board I could say we all appreciate your efforts and I think the town should appreciate in a big way a lot of the things you do it was a privilege it was a real pleasure and nothing like teamwork nothing I did I did on my own when are we going to be able to toast you that's the question well we'll talk about that I'm not moving any time we've been the lucky ones thank you very much thank you from the bottom of my heart I really appreciate it very much with that said I'll move to adjourn I'll say