 From Seattle, Washington, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Imagine, nonprofit, brought to you by Amazon Web Services. Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in the waterfront in Seattle, Washington. It's absolutely gorgeous here the last couple of days. We're here for the AWS Imagine nonprofit event. We were here a couple of weeks ago for the education event. Now they have a whole separate track for nonprofits. And what's really cool about nonprofits is these people, these companies are attacking very, very big, ugly problems. It's not advertising, it's not click here and it gets something. These are big things. And one of the biggest issues is human trafficking. You probably hear a lot about it. It's way bigger than I ever thought it was. And we're really excited to have an expert in the field that, again, is using the power of AWS technology as well as their organization to help fight this cause. And we're excited to have Brad Miles. He is the CEO of Polaris. And just coming off a keynote, we're hearing all about your keynote. So Brad, first off, welcome. Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely, so Polaris, give us a little bit about kind of what's the mission for people who aren't familiar with the company. Yes, so Polaris, we are a nonprofit that works full-time on this issue. We both combat the issue and try to get to long-term solutions and respond to the issue and restore freedom to survivors by operating the national human trafficking hotline for the United States. So it's part kind of big data and long-term solutions and it's part responding to day-to-day cases that break across the country every day. Right, in preparing for this interview and spending some time on the site, there was just some amazing things that just jump right off the page. 24.9 million people are involved in this. Is that just domestically here in the States or is that globally? That's a global number. So when you're thinking about human trafficking, think about three buckets. The first bucket is any child, 17 or younger, being exploited in the commercial sex trade. The second bucket is any adult, 18 or over who's in the sex trade by force fraud or coercion. And the third bucket is anyone forced to work in some sort of other labor or service industry by force fraud or coercion. So you got the child sex trafficking bucket, you got the adult sex trafficking bucket, and then you got all the labor trafficking bucket, right? You add up those three buckets globally. That's the number that the International Labor Organization came out and said 25 million around the world are those three buckets in a given year. Right, right. And I think, again, going through the website, some of the just crazy discoveries is that the child sex trafficking can kind of understand that that's part of the problem, the adult sex trafficking. But you had like 25 different human trafficking business models, I forget the term that was used, for a whole host of things, well beyond just the sex trade, it's a very big and unfortunately mature industry. Totally, yeah. So the first thing that we do that we're kind of known for is operating the National Human Trafficking Hotline. The National Human Trafficking Hotline leads to having a giant data set on trafficking. It's 50,000 cases of trafficking that we've worked on. So then we analyzed that data set and came to the breakthrough conclusion that there are these 25 major forms and almost any single call that we get into the national hotline is going to be one of those 25 types. And once you know that, then the problem doesn't seem so overwhelming. It's not thousands of different types. It's these 25 things. So it's 18 labor trafficking types and seven sex trafficking types. And it enables a little bit more granular analysis than just saying sex trafficking or labor trafficking, which is kind of too broad in general. Let's get really specific about it. We're talking about these late night janitors or we're talking about these people in agriculture. We're talking about these women and illicit massage businesses. It enables the conversation to get more focused. Right, it's so interesting, right? That's such a big piece of the big data trend that we see all over the place, right? It used to be, you had old data, a sample of old data that you took an aggregate of and worked off the averages. And now because of big data and the other tools that we have today, now actually you can work on individual cases. So as you look at it from kind of a big data point of view, what are some of the things that you're able to do and that led directly to everyone's talking about the presentation that you just got off of in terms of training people to look for specific behaviors that fit the pattern so you can start to break some of these cases. Exactly, so I think that the human trafficking field risks being too generic. So if you're just saying to the populace, look for trafficking, look for someone who's scared. People are like, that's not enough, that's too vague, it's kind of slipping through my fingers. But if you say in this particular type of trafficking with traveling magazine sales crews, if someone comes to your door trying to sell you a magazine with these specific signs, so now instead of talking about general red flag indicators across all 25 types, we're coming up with red flag indicators for each of the 25 types. So instead of speaking in aggregate, we're getting really specific. It's almost like specific gene therapy. And the data analysis on our data set is enabling that to happen, which makes the trafficking field smarter. We could get smarter about where victims are recruited from, we could get smarter about intervention points, and we could get smarter about where survivors might have a moment to kind of get help and get out. Right, so I got to dig into the magazine sales person because I think we've all had the kid. Have you had a kid come here? Absolutely, and you think first they're hustling, but their papers are kind of torn up and they've got their little certification. How does that business model work? Yeah, so that's one of the 25 types. They're called MagCruze. There was a New York Times article written by a journalist named Ian Urbina who really studied this, and it came out a number of years ago. Then they made a movie about it called American Honey. If you watch with a number of stars. But essentially this is a very longstanding business model. It goes back 30 or 40 years of like the door-to-door sales person and like trying to win sympathy from people going to door-to-door sales. And then these kind of predatory groups decided to prey on disaffected U.S. citizen youth that are kind of bored or kind of working a low-wage job. And so they go up to these kids and they say, you know, tired of working at the Waffle House, well why don't you join our crew and travel the country and party every night and you'll be outdoors every day and it's co-ed, you get to hang out with girls, you get to hang out with guys, and we'll drink every night and all you have to do is sell magazines during the day. And it's kind of this alluring pitch and then the crews turn violent and there's sometimes quotas on the crew, there's sometimes coercion on the crew. We get a lot of calls from kids who are abandoned by the crew where the crew says, you know, if you act up or if you don't adhere to our rules, we'll just drive away and leave you in this city. Wherever. Because the crews are very mobile. They have this whole language they call it kind of jumping territory. So they'll drive from like Kansas City to a nearby state. And we'll get this call from this kid that are like, I'm totally homeless, my crew just left me behind because I kind of didn't obey one of the rules. So a lot of people when they think of human trafficking, they're not thinking of like U.S. citizen kids knocking on your door. And we're not saying that every single magazine crew is human trafficking, but we are saying that if there's force and coercion and fraud and lies and people feel like they can't leave and people feel like they're being coerced to work, this is actually a form of human trafficking of U.S. citizen youth, which is not very well known, but we hear about it on the hotline quite a lot. Right. So then I wonder if you could tell us more about the Delta story, because most of the people that are going to be watching this interview weren't here today to hear your keynotes. So I wonder if you can explain kind of that whole process where you identified a specific situation. You train people that are in a position to make a difference. And in fact, they're making a big difference. So the first big report that we released based on the hotline data was the 25 types, right? We decided to do a follow-up to that called intersections, where we reached out to survivors of trafficking and we said, can you tell us about the legitimate businesses that your trafficker use while you're being trafficked? And all these survivors were like, yeah, sure, we'll tell you about social media. We'll tell you about transportation. We'll tell you about banks. We'll tell you about hotels. And so we then identified these six major industries that traffickers use that are using legitimate companies like rental car companies and airlines and ride-sharing companies. So then we reached out to a number of those corporate partners and said, you know, you don't want this stuff on your services, right? And Delta really just jumped at this. Like they were just like, we take this incredibly seriously. We want our whole workforce trained. We don't want any trafficker to feel like they can kind of get away with it on our flights. We want to be a leader in transportation. And then they began taking all these steps. Their CEO, Ed Bastion, took it very seriously. They launched a whole corporate-wide task force across departments. They hosted listening sessions with survivor leaders so survivors could coach them. And then they started launching this whole strategy around training their flight attendants and then training their whole workforce and then supporting the National Human Trafficking Hotline. They made some monetary donations to Polaris. We get situations on the hotline where someone is in a dangerous situation and needs to be flown across the country, like an escape flight almost. And Delta donated sky miles for us to give to survivors who are trying to flee a situation who needs a flight. They can go to an airport and get on a flight for free that will fly them across the country. So it's almost like a modern-day underground railroad kind of flying people on planes. Right, right. So they've just been an amazing partner and they even then took the bold step of saying, well, let's air a PSA on our flights. So the customer base can see this. So when you're on a Delta flight, you'll see this PSA about human trafficking and just kept going and going and going. So it's now been about a five-year partnership and lots of great work together. And catching bad guys. Yeah, I mean, their publicity of the National Human Trafficking Hotline has led to a major increase in calls, airport signage, more employees looking for it. And I actually do believe that the notion of flying, if you're going to be a trafficker, flying on a Delta flight is now a much more harrowing experience because everyone's kind of trained and eyes and ears are looking. So you're going to pivot towards another airline that hasn't done that training yet, which now speaks to the need that once one member of an industry steps up, all different members of the industry need to follow suit. So we're encouraging a lot of the other airlines to do similar training and we're seeing some others do that, which is great. Yeah, and how much of it was from the CEO or did he kind of come on after the factor? Was there kind of a champion catalyst that was pushing this through the organization? Is that often the case or what do you find in terms of adoption of a company to help you on your mission? It's a great question. I mean, the bigger picture here is trafficking is a $150 billion industry, right? A group of small nonprofits and cops are not going to solve it on their own. We need the big businesses to enter the fight because the big businesses have the resources, they have the brand, they have the customer base, they have the scale to make it a fair fight, right? So in the past few years, we're seeing big businesses really enter the fight against trafficking, whether or not that's big data companies like AWS, whether or not that's social media companies like Facebook, whether or not that's hotel companies like Wyndham and Marriott, airlines like Delta. And that's great because now the big hitters are joining the trafficking fight. And it happens in different ways. Sometimes it's CEO-led. I think in the case of Delta, Ed Baston really does take this issue very seriously. He was hosting events on this at his home. He's hosted roundtables of other CEOs in the Atlanta area like UPS and Chick-fil-A and Home Depot and Coca-Cola, all those Atlanta-based CEOs know each other well. He'll host roundtables about that. And I think it was kind of CEO-led. But in other corporations, it's one die-hard champion who might be like a mid-level employee or a director who just says, we really got to do this and then they drive more CEO attention and senior leader. So we've seen it happen both ways, whether or not it's top-down or kind of middle-driven up. But the big picture is if we could get some of the biggest corporations of the world to take this issue seriously, to ask questions about who they contract with, to ask questions about what's in their supply chain, to educate their workforce, to talk about this in front of their millions of customers, it just puts the fight against trafficking on steroids than a group of nonprofits would be able to do alone. So I think we're in a whole different realm of the fight now that business is at the table. And is that pretty much your strategy in terms of where you get the leverage, do you think, is to execute via a lot of these well-resourced companies that are at this intersection point? I think that's a really interesting way to address the problem. Yeah, well, it's back to the 25 types. So the strategies depend on type. Like I don't think big businesses being at the table are necessarily gonna solve magazine sales crews. They're not necessarily gonna solve begging on the street, but they can solve late-night janitors that sometimes are trafficked, where lots of big companies are contracting with late-night janitorial crews. And they come at 2 a.m. and they buff the floors and they kind of change out the trash. And no one's there in the office building to see those workers, right? And so asking different questions of who you procure contracts with to say, hey, before we contract with you guys, we're gonna need to ask you a couple of questions about where these workers got here and what these workers thought they were coming to do and we need to ID these workers. The person holding the purse strings who's buying that contract has the power to demand the conditions of that contract. Especially in agriculture and large retail buyers. So I think that big corporations, it's definitely part of the strategy for certain types. It's not gonna solve other types of trafficking. But let's say banks in financial institutions, if they start asking different questions of who's banking with them, just like they've done with terrorism financing, they could wipe out trafficking financing, could actually play a gigantic role in changing the course of how that type of trafficking exists. So we could talk all day, I'm sure. But we don't have time, but I'm just curious, what should people do? A, if they just see something suspicious, reach out to one of these kids selling magazines or begging on the street or looking suspicious at an airport. So A, that's the question. And then two, if people want to get involved more generically, whether in their company or personally, how do they get involved? Yeah, so there are thousands of non-profit groups across the country. Polaris is in touch with 3,000 of them. We're one of thousands. I would say find an organization in your area that you care about and volunteer. Get involved, donate, figure out what they need. Our website is Polarisproject.org. We have a national referral directory of organizations across the country. And so that's one way. The other way is the National Human Trafficking Hotline, the number 1-888-3737-888. The hotline depends on either survivors calling in directly as a lifeline or community members calling in who saw something suspicious. So we get lots of calls from people who are getting their nails done and the woman was crying and talking about how she's not being paid or people who are out to eat as a family and they see something in the restaurant or people who are traveling and they see something that doesn't make kind of quite sense in a hotel or an airport. So we need an army of eyes and ears calling tips into the National Human Trafficking Hotline and identifying these cases and we need survivors to know the number themselves too so that they can call in on their own behalf. We need to respond to the problem in the short term and help get these people connected to help and then we need to do the long-term solutions which involves data and business and changing business practice and all of that. But I do think that if people want to kind of educate themselves, polarisproject.org, there are some kind of meta organizations there's a group called Freedom United that's kind of starting a grassroots movement against trafficking, freedomunited.org. So lots of great organizations to look into and this is a bipartisan issue. This is an issue that most people care about. It's one of the top headlines in the newspapers every day of these days. And it's something that I think people in this country naturally care about because it references kind of the history of chattel slavery and some of those forms of slavery that morphed but never really went away and we're still fighting that same fight today. In terms of, you know, we're here at AWS Imagine and they're obviously putting a lot of resources behind this, Teresa Carlson and the team. How are you using them? Have you always been on AWS? You know, has that platform enabled you to accomplish your mission better? Yeah, oh for sure. I mean, Polaris crunches over 60 terabytes of data per day of just like the computing that we're doing, right? And what types of data are you crunching? It's the data associated with hotline calls. We collect up to 150 variables on each hotline call. The hotline calls come in, we have this data set of 50,000 cases of trafficking with very sensitive data and the protections of that data, the cyber security associated with that data, the storage of that data. So since 2017, Polaris has been in existence since 2002. So we're in our 17th year now but starting three years ago in 2017 we started really partnering with AWS where we're migrating more of our data onto AWS, building some AI tools with AWS to help us process hotline calls more efficiently and then talking about potentially moving our, all of our data storage onto AWS so that we don't have our own server racks in our office. We still need to go through a number of steps to get there but having AWS at the table and then talking about the impact computing team and this like real big data crunching of like millions of trafficking cases globally. We haven't even started talking about that yet but I think that's like a next stage. So for now it's getting our data stronger, more secure, building some of those AI bots to help us with our work and then potentially considering us moving completely serverless and all of those things are conversations we're having with AWS and thrilled that AWS is making this an issue to the point that it was prioritized and featured at this conference which was a big deal to get in front of the whole audience and do a keynote and we're very, very grateful for that. And you mentioned there's so many organizations involved are you guys doing data aggregation, data consolidation, sharing, I mean there must be with so many organizations, right that adds a lot of complexity and a lot of daily silos to steal classic kind of IT terms. Are you working towards some kind of unification around that or how does that look in the future? We would love to get to the point where different organizations are sharing their data set. We'd love to get to the point where different organizations are using like a shared case management tool and collecting the same data. So it's apples to apples. There are different organizations like Thorn is doing some amazing big data. We fed Thorn on it a couple times. How do we merge Polaris' data set with Thorn's data set? We're not doing that yet, right? I think we're only doing baby steps but I think the AWS platform could enable potentially a merger of Thorn's data with Polaris' data in some sort of data lake, right? So that's a great idea. We would love to get to that. I think the field isn't there yet. The field has kind of been like tech starved for a number of years but in the past five years has made a lot of progress. The field is mostly kind of small shelters and groups responding to survivors and so this notion of like infusing the trafficking field with data is somewhat of a new concept but it's enabling us to think much bigger about what's possible. Well Brad, again, we could go on all day really thankful for what you're doing for a whole lot of people that we don't see or maybe we see and we're not noticing. So thank you for that and look forward to catching up when you move the ball a little bit further down the field. Thank you for having me on. All right, my pleasure. He's Brad, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at AWS Imagine non-profits. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.