 All right, I'm going to call to order the meeting of March 17, 2014 of the Arlington Redevelopment Board. I've got a pretty full agenda tonight. So the first item on the agenda is a review of the bright view as built design changes up at the Sims project and a little bit of background here. There had initially been a hearing that was advertised for this evening at 7 o'clock. That hearing was scheduled because Brightview had filed an application to reopen the special permit. Since that time, the application has been withdrawn because the changes that were made did not necessarily require an applicant to reopen the special permit. So that application has been withdrawn and therefore the hearing has been canceled. Now, having said that, we're still going to hear about the design changes of the as built and discuss them among the board. With respect to any changes that are within the special permit, the description is any changes that are not material or substantial simply need the board to approve them and move on. Even those that aren't just need written approval, so it's not necessarily the case that we would need to reopen the special permit regardless. So with that as background, I do also want to mention, because it's not a public hearing, it's not opening the special permit, we're going to review the as built design changes. So tonight's meeting is not a meeting with respect to the neighborhood protection plan or anything else. We're talking about the changes that are being basically that we're being told about that have taken place up there. So that's what we're going to hear and that's what we're going to deal with. We do have one other open item that has been brought to my attention that I think we at least want to understand a little bit more. With that, I'll ask the bright new folks to come on up and help walk us through the different changes that you're wanting us to approve. We appreciate the opportunity to come in front of you again. I'm going to have Eric walk through the changes. Eric's our architect, but I just wanted to say that I'd like to apologize that we're having this discussion kind of post activity on the site. Some of these changes were necessitated by grading on the site, it does evolve a little bit from engineering to what we finally get in shoveling the ground. We felt most of these were really de minimis changes, but we also, if I don't mean to be cavalier in saying that you have a process here, we would certainly respect that and we would have come to you earlier if we thought they were material in such a way. So part of it comes from our history and other jurisdictions where this would normally not have required additional discussion, but we also respect your process. And so I just wanted to be contrived and tell you we apologize for the step we're now having to take. I hope that you deem these changes to be a material as well, but let us give you some background as to what necessitated the changes, why we did the steps we did, and then have maybe some dialogue about things you're more concerned about, and we'll go from there. That'd be great, and if you would mind just doing an introduction of everybody, that would be good for the record. Well, I'm David Holland with Preyfield, a development officer for the organization. Eric Anderson is the architect, you can do your own introduction, but Eric Anderson, the architect, with Procon Architecture, you know Josh. Josh Davis, Davis Long. Okay, okay, okay, okay, so I think Eric's put all these on the board, so. That'd be great. I think you have the things. Yeah, I just have to get it. Can we just go over what you have in front of you, what you have in your room by 17s is here, I have the same thing in the larger scale. The first page is basically just sort of a key plan to show you where all the changes within happen around the building, give you a sense of where they are, whether they're on the street side, or the side of the woods, or what have you. We just try to lay out the changes in some kind of systematic way so we could easily go through and explain to you what we're going to do. That sounds great, and as a process, why don't we do this? As we flip pages, let's pause it before we flip to the next page, or on each item, and make sure that there are no questions. Anyone who has a question or comment, please, just pipe up. I'll just jump in for our first two. So this is basically before and after photo, this is what was issued to use. I understand elevations some time ago, and this reflects what's there now. This first change is in the courtyard area. These double doors, actually it's a single door with a side light, is the area in question. I had originally had patio out in front of this unit. We try to get the residents' outdoors as much as possible, so we try to squeeze patios in where we can. When the final grading was in, I could not get the grades to work for this patio. There's a sidewalk right out in front of it, and obviously the slopes all need to be ADA. I just couldn't make that happen on the site when the gradient all shook out. So basically what we've done is we took a patio out here, and without the patio, there's no reason for the door. So this pair of windows is in the same location as the door was. So that's what that change is all about. Wait a second. Do you have a question? I guess the only question I have is the right double doors. That's still a patio, is that? Or is that just an exit? It's still a patio, yeah. That's an adjacent unit that has a patio. So my question would be what's become of the patio? Is it lawn? Is it plants? It's just landscape area. So it's lawn area? Yeah, it's a very small strip between the walkway and the driveway of the building, but yeah, it's just landscape space there. Should be like mulch bed? Yeah, specifically what plants are there, I couldn't tell you. It's basically a continuation of what's going on around the building. There's a little bit of gravel right next to the building. And I believe it's mulch. I don't think it's lawn there. It would be nice if it were plants. I think there's a lot of dendro in it. I'm remembering walking through the building this afternoon. Yeah, it's definitely landscape. I don't think it's lawn. I don't think it's lawn actually. It's landscaping. I couldn't tell you which bushes in particular are there, but... Okay. There's lawn and landscape at the building. There's both, I think. Yeah, it's very narrow down here, but of course I don't have a landscape plan. Okay. Either one is fine, but landscape planning area I think would be preferred because there's not much in the front. Yeah. And it's in between planted areas right now. This is the patio. Yeah, it's right here. Yeah, I see it right here. That's the little patio out there. Mm-hmm. And here's the planting plan. Right, so that's out. Yeah, I'm not sure what that bush is next to it. Yeah, so there's planting on both sides. It would be great if that could also be planting. And you're thinking this would be very nice. Rather than just lawn. Okay. That's okay. Okay, anybody else on item one? Okay, we'll move on to item two. Item number two is around the side, just to the right of the garage entrance. The way I originally drawn it, I shared the fence with the tickets vertical down this sloped wall. The fence manufacturers, and they came back to me and submitted their drawings to us, is we can't pitch the fence that steeply. None of the fence products can get wracked to that degree. It's too steep. So at that point, we said, okay, we'd have to step a wall in so we can put a normal fence on it. It still functions as a guard rail. It needs to be a minimum of 42 inches high above the ground. Just, obviously, so somebody's would fall over it. Not that anybody would be calling it that anyway. But that change really was necessitated by the fence products. The wall could have been casted away. It's basically a concrete wall with stone fascia. But I just couldn't get a fence product that could accommodate that slope, essentially. So is there actually more wall or less wall than on the other one? That's a really good question. I think it's probably less with a step. In your grade's work, you're not going to see any soil coming over that wall. No, there's still a little bit of a bump on the other side between the grade and the wall. Still low. Okay, that would be my only concern. Eric, so that's a retaining wall. There's no staircase on the other side of that. No, it's just the ground and slope. As long as you don't start to get any erosion coming across the wall. That could be nasty. That would be a good one. Okay, anything else in there? Okay. I'm going to tag in three, please. The change, this change is, throughout the process, we try to get as many windows as possible. Usually we push for that just to bring more light into the units. There are living units behind this wall. And when we have the opportunity to add windows, we usually do. That's the case here. This condition exists on both ends of the building. And this was just an opportunity to get another window into one of the assisted living units. The living room, basically. So we want to take advantage of that. So we add a window. So an opportunity and then add that. So I'm sorry, you did that in two places? So it's mirror? Yep, it's on this end. Okay. And on this end as well. Okay. It's basically a mirror image. So everyone understands, as you're looking at that, the arrows pointing to the lines means that's a flat roof in front. Yep. Right? About what? A 12 foot feet? A flat roof? Here? Yeah. More like 20 to 20. So that face sits back quite a ways. Thought from an elevation standpoint, especially from the ground, you're not seeing that window. So from a visual standpoint, it doesn't necessarily have that presence. But yet we can get a corner window in that unit. So that would be very valuable for the residents not trying to park this. Thank you. Any questions about that? This is the picture of the back porch that looks out toward the woods. This change is change of the roof material up here. This is basically the same porch, different sections of it. This is a metal standing seam roof originally. We typically don't do metal standing seam roofs. We try to use asphalt shingles. We try to make this seem like a home. We feel like a home for the residents. So we typically do asphalt shingle. We had a metal standing seam roof in the front of the building right above the main entrance, which we still have, a highly visible location. Back here, it's not really visible, except it's highly visible from these areas of the building looking out. And the concern was the residents. You wanted to feel like they were at home not looking out and seeing a metal roof. It's a purely material change. I'm standing in the middle of the seam with two asphalt shingles. Any questions on that? Also on the same drawing here, I had originally designed this. You can see that the wall of the building beyond has a stone, wainscote on it. The wall out in front of the porch used to also be stone. And as this went into construction, we started to see the space-take shape. We realized when you're sitting on the porch, you have these beautiful woods out in front of you. And the whole view is walked up to 42 inches by a stone wall. So we thought it'd be advantageous to take that stone wall out and add a fence so you can actually see through, so you can enjoy the landscaping and the natural treescape beyond. So that's what initiated that change. That's the material for the fence. It's aluminum. It does not look like wrought iron, but it's aluminum. Did that wall act as a sequel a little before? No. Is it at the edge of the lawn? Or is it at the edge of the building? Is it at the edge of the porch? Yeah, between the porch and part of this patio, part of this lawn, yeah. So there is a porch, an accurate porch in that area. There it is, yeah. I couldn't tell from where it was on the plan. Can you point to where it was on the plan again? Sure. This is the porch here. So there's a patio here and then there's landscaping around. So the railing is all the way over there, not where it says item six? We're on item five. We're on five. Oh, we're on five? Yep. Okay. Okay, good. Part of the screen porch then it changes to the open porch. So it's really just a view. I mean, one of the, obviously the site's kind of an odd nut, but, you know, the beautiful view of the trees out there. So everything we're doing, we're trying to take full advantage of that. Sure. Does that porch have seating on it? It does, yeah. It does? Yeah. This is really our prime, variant outdoor space for the residents in a communal setting. So there are some individual patios, but this is where folks can congregate on summer evenings and be out in that patio and then onto the porch. We'll talk about the patio in a moment, but how deep is that porch? It's well-feeded. It's deep. It's between 10 and 12. So it's really a wonderful functioning area. And then on the second floor, just above that is an enclosed porch for dimension of residents, which again is so important that we have outdoor space. So now that that patio, I know I'm jumping ahead to another item, but now that that patio has been extended out, is that fence at the outer edge now, right? The extended patio. It's not, this fence is actually a railing at the porch as well. That's what I... Okay. That's what this changes about. So it's the one that was actually at the porch, at the building itself. So that's at the interior area. And then the part that you've added... I forget which item it is. The patio? It's actually item 11, I guess, where it actually showed the added patio. So that's what this is. This is around the added patio. This is not the added patio. This is at the porch. This is at the porch. Yeah. So then there's another fence at the added patio. Correct. So you're going to have two fences there. Correct. And you need both. Yeah, there's not a big drop here, grade-wise off the porch, but any drop per seniors is potentially hazardous. So we try to focus and only have an opening where we have a nice, smooth ADA compliant transition. You know, if it was somebody's house, you wouldn't necessarily need a railing there, but for failed seniors, we try to... So anyway, that's where that... Okay. Change on the bottom. Item number six is... There's a commercial laundry isn't here. And what you're seeing is the vent that comes from that commercial laundry from the dryers with the net room. This is basically just an item that I neglected to show in the elevations originally. The commercial laundry's always been there. And they obviously always need to be vented. We put the louver in within the window frame so it wouldn't stand out as something that's asymmetrical or, you know, doesn't fit on the elevation. But it's really a practical change. You want to prevent those commercial dryers out of the building. I try to avoid shafting these dryers all the way up through the building. You know, lens dryers, you can get in a house obviously with a big source of potential fire hazard. So we try to vent it directly out of the building as much as possible. That's what we've done here. The dryers are basically on the other side of that wall. So is this beyond the patio sitting area? Yeah, it is. It is all the way down at the end. This is a change from a stone wing scope at the base of the building to a vinyl siding. And that's in this green area here that you see on the plan. The reason for this change fundamentally is as this building started to take shape, this area is really not invisible to just about anywhere unless you're walking behind the building or in front of the trees over here. So from a practical standpoint, rather than having to change the materials, it's just a simplified concrete where we made this free vinyl siding next to the wall. These particular elevations are either showing you where that used to be. The green hatch is where the other material was. The hellerado stone, basically a cementitious stone facade. This area is tough to access. Obviously it's kind of out at the edge of the hill. So we tried to simplify the elevation as much as possible for any future issues that might arise. It would cost somebody to have to go back there. That's what these first two elevations show. These other two show the same thing. There's also a patio here, but if there's any questions about the stone, I'd be glad to answer those. Christine, is that what you thought about? That they had a patio? No. That was in the back area here. We'll talk about that in a moment. Yeah, we'll get back to that. So the stone is more work than the vinyl siding? It's just a change of materials. Change of materials that we have to flash. It's an area of the building that I don't know where you'd see it. If you walk down the street on the sidewalk and that side of the street, you could look down over the wall and see it. The lower vista park you might see it from. Pardon? From the lower vista park you might see a little bit. From the lower vista right. Yeah, this time of year, especially if there's no leaves and no trees, you see a quarter of them. Yeah, I think it's mostly meadow areas between that side of the building. Yeah. There might be some planking for that area too. But the simpler we can keep the skin, the better in terms of long-term maintenance. Obviously where we need and want a real architectural pop, an aesthetic pop, we'll do that. Here it just, it didn't warrant it in the end, we thought. And so if we can preserve the integrity of the skin, we want to take that opportunity since there's no visual aesthetics to the public or the residents. But that's, you're right, the lower vista park is up here and then it drops down and then you kind of almost hit this gully where the building comes into that area. I hardly see it. On the lower before and after area, you're not showing the retaining wall going up the slope. Is that just so we can see what the building's going to look like? I mean, you're not changing the photographer. Exactly. So you can see this. Okay. The next item on here is that the patio basically is relocated from the front to back here. And this, we'll see it later but the retaining wall here, we were able to make that smaller just because the existing grave worked out. But this is kind of cut, so you can see what we did. We didn't change the view. Is this the same direction? Yeah. Something like that. Something like that. Yeah, we would love to have added one, but since we've lost the one in the front, it's kind of a wash, but the way the grave shaped out here, we had enough flat area to get an ADA accessible patio. It's really quite nice back here with the existing trees. Next item. I just want to make sure. So on number seven, the third one, sorry, the third, it looks like did you add a window there on the right? It looks like it's a double window. It used to be a single on the left. And then on the one on the bottom, did we lose a window there? Yeah. This is that here, right? Yeah. That's like the evaded one there. And then down below, it looks like you lost one. Yeah. You're right, that was not. This window was not doable because that became a, trying to get us a mechanical room. I believe it's a mechanical room back behind there. As far as the upper elevation, yeah, this, these changed and think this was a single, it's showing like a door here. I think that was a single window that we were able to make a double. Which would be the standard in these units, usually try to make a double window at least. Yeah, triple. But the grade here, the way the grade worked out, we were able to get two. Okay. But you're right, that's not called out, is it? It's a change here. Okay. And then the other thing, and maybe this is what was asked before, I know you're just showing the stub on the right, but you've kept the stonework on the top of that wall on the grade? Here? Yeah. No, like, because we're only seeing the stub, right? Because you wanted to show us what changed, I think. You just cut through the hell here so you can see it. Right. But I mean, you see how there's a, it looks like there's a stone wall. On the left-hand side. On the left-hand side. Yeah, does that still exist? That slanted. Oh, this here? Yeah. No. No, I think that was intended to be, actually it was intended to be on the wall. This wall shrank back significantly. I think on that side, there's really no visible wall. It's just slightly above grade. Oh, is that what happened? Yeah. So you didn't end up having done it? I believe on the other side, I don't think on the back side we have stone here. Are those walls shown on this site, then? Yeah, it's that. So there's that one. So it's on page five, you can see. You can see it on page five. There's one angled one here. It's yellow, right? Yeah, that one? And originally it was a little bit. Oh, and then it came. Okay, I see. Originally it was a little bit. Where is this lower one? It's got a lot shorter. Yeah, it's got a lot shorter. And it kind of cuts out. It would be, yeah. It cuts out a little bit. Yeah, this one stayed about the same. All the other kinds of things. Yeah. It was on the elevation above there. Yeah. Okay. And that's your channel. That's right. That's right. That's right. So where would that be? Okay. So that's where I got to come in now. Yeah. That's the only way to cut the roof too. With the illusionary curve. Is that stone? No. It's one side facing the public is essentially below grade. Except for a slight amount of curb. And the back side is facing the building. And it has, I think this is concrete. It's casted by concrete. And it's ready rock. The small one I believe is concrete. The one further up, the larger one is. The one you can see is ready rock. Yeah. So the changes on the side plan. This area here is where we removed that patio. And the grades, the way the final grades shook out, they did not match exactly the drawings. Slight differences. But it makes a big difference when you're trying to get it out from the accessibility perspective. So the handicap parking shifted from this side of the circle to this side because we'd get ADA access here. And you can see there's a total number of parking spaces out here. It's the same whether you're shifting around based on the way the grades shook out. We have a spot here on the end that kind of stuck out into the drive-off. That was rotated around to be parallel here. Obviously this needs a kind of fire truck. And just to have that parking space with its nose sticking out in the drive-off was not ideal. And we were able to relocate that up to this location. Do you want to just go through one at a time? Yeah, please. Yeah. So the parking, probably the biggest change out here would be the parking, which would have shifted things around. Not from a right-use perspective. It would make a whole lot of difference from a usability standpoint. It's something we had to do, the design team had to do, just to make the grades work out from the accessibility perspective. And a little bit of an issue with that parking space sticking out of the drive-off. So we rotated that. The other parking change out here is one of the spots shifted down. There was one parking space here in the original plan. Now there's two. One of the spaces from here moved down to there. So then there is an increase in spaces. Because when you count the top, it's the same as it was. Yeah, we're down, correct. We're down in the garage, because there's a generator down there that took up an extra space. So one spot moved outside. Wasn't that spot for a bus stop before? It is. So is there one of those? It's the van. That's correct. So you have two spaces there? No, it's two. So you're saying no net gain. There is a net gain of one. But you're taking it out of the garage. Correct. So on the left side, there's a net gain of one. Yeah. Overall, there's a net loss of one. Where? Overall. When you include the garage with the site, yeah. The overall parking for the entire project, we're actually down one from approval. We lost two inside the garage. We gained one outside. Why did you lose two inside? Because of the generator. The generator was actually enlarged. It took up a couple of spaces inside the garage. So the amount of parking that you have in front of the building, it's all necessary by permit. That's what we permitted. Is it necessary for your usability also? We do. To have that parking. In front of the building? Yeah. Ideally it is. Because while staff will be utilizing the garage, some family members will come into the garage as well. They really prefer to drop off. Their family member at the front door. If that person has mobility to come in and out. Just like they come in and out of the front door of their house. And we need enough space in that area to allow guests to come in. Just easier to navigate. Is that guest parking then? In the front? It can be a combination of uses. It could be a resident space. Although, really frankly, residents are not driving in this community. But there may be one or two. And then it is for guests, the visitors who come in, or prospective residents and their family members who are coming in. So our preference, frankly, in most of our communities, is to have more surface parking near the front door. But obviously the site is being limited. I have to say this is the one change that I was not happy with. It's not very pleasant. It's very awkward the way the parking is. There's a lot less green space at the entrance. When you come in. Now it's going to look, there's nothing to buffer or soften the wall. And that wall is already not as attractive as I had hoped it would be. Because it turned out to be the big block ready walk. No, the wall up around your new parking space. And now you have that parking space right up against the wall. It took out five crab apples, it looks like. Five trees, substantial trees, that were in there. So green space that was in there. There's seven on the plant list, but there were only five there, it looked like. The two are lost on the other side of the parking lot. Oh, they're lost there also. It appears though. I don't think we have a... We don't have any new planting plan. It does appear, you're right, that those two are also lost. So all the parking now is extremely crammed in there. There's much less, I don't know, I don't know, square footage-wise, but the feel of it, when you're looking at it on the plan, at the main entrance, there's a lot less right at the entrance. You know, there's a little bit gained where you shifted the one parking space that had the nose out. But compared to the original plan, it's substantially different, unfortunately. Right. To the negative. Because you have that added parking space, but you've also got the two spaces that were just regular spaces coming into the circle. Yeah. The ones on the right are now handicap. And it's much bigger. And so they're much bigger. And the walkway now is completely behind parking, rather than some of it being on the sidewalk. I want to know why it was necessitated, actually. That was my big question. You know, just saying that it was grades from what was on the drawing and what was there. It looks like the whole wall moved in towards the site. Considerably. Is it like a hospital? At least based on the drawing. The wall part is battered, if you know what I mean. That's why it got so much thicker. It sits back slightly as it goes up. I think that might be where the... Even the face of it on the sidewalk side of the street, it seems like it moved into the site more. To make the site a little bit tighter. Right. The one positive, I guess, is there's more green space along the top. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you can see kind of the thickness here. The wall, obviously, isn't that thick. It's just representing that the wall is set back slightly over here. This condition here was the most challenging of the site. It's just so tight in there to get a retaining wall product in there to hold back the street, the road, and the significance and the grade change here was challenging. Is that all built now? The parking and the turnaround and the landscape is in everything? Not all the landscaping is in but the parking, the paving, the curb, everything is in. Correct. To answer part of your question, Christine, when Eric's team was working on that retaining wall part of what was driving, it was a tremendous amount of ledge stone that we encountered under Sins Road in the utility duct bank that was installed as part of the 360 project, which is pretty substantial. So once ProKind had opened all of that up, then it was having to redesign that wall and find something that would withstand the conditions. And so the block wall that you see out there was the end result of trying to minimize the intrusion on our site while working, while retaining all of that stuff under Sins Road. And the batter that Eric talks about was trying to create a wall that would stand as vertical as it could given the loads on it. But it's drilled and pinned into the bedrock below Sins Road. It's a pretty substantial project but the end result of it was... Lost. Yeah, we lost a few feet. And so the shift when I had Kachi go back through and do the study, some of the shift of green spaces now between the back of the sidewalk at Sins Road and the top of the retaining wall where as you observe, you lose a little bit of it down on our site. But there is a net gain of what's happening between the sidewalk and the back of the retaining wall as you go up the sidewalk along Sins Road. When the board is finished, I'd like to ask a question or two. I just want to ask if you have any idea about the quantity of impact to trees and also the snow storage. It appears as though you lost your snow storage in seven crab apples, four per birnum, two pinnokes, and three honey locusts. But that's just me looking at the comparison. I don't know if that's been done with Kachi. Yeah, she did and I didn't get a chance to share that with you, but I'll forward that to you tomorrow. Overall, it was favorable from her view. The changes that were made and she went through and did counts of each different species and how many more were there now and less of one and more of another. Just the overall net impact, her conclusion was it was immaterial. She's aware that the net loss in landscaping was not going to be accepted. She's reallocating things not just taking things out. Where do you suppose she put those seven trees? I have to ask her. That's pretty substantial change from the entry. All I can offer Christine is I can just forward to you tomorrow the summary she did at the end of last week and let you take a look at it if there's a need to do something different. Does she have a revised landscape plan that she did in an overview comparison of the final plan to the approved plan? I don't know the answer to that. If she actually updated her plan I'm not sure we can. It'd be nice to see if the new planting or the relocated planting is relocated within this front area. That would be ideal. If it's not and it's somewhere else it's not as effective and it would give us a number of trees but on the plan it looks like a concrete jungle. I don't know what it looks like out there. I haven't been out there recently. The plants aren't in but the caving is all in. It feels like it's going to look like a seers and rogues to the building with a retaining wall and parking rather than a nice entrance to your building. Can I just interject something? We were very involved in trying to coordinate this. First of all, that was an extremely technically difficult situation from a structural perspective with the duck bank, how you pin in a retaining wall that has mesh that goes under the grade and then pins and it holds itself together in a major utility corridor on the shoulder of the road. I just want to attest that there was every effort made during the construction process to get that wall as far in as possible and I just wanted to emphasize that I think it's humanly possible to build that wall any differently than was done. And also from a public accessibility perspective and a visibility perspective I think that where the green space is along the edge of the road is actually much more from a public's perspective visually kind of available to see and to potentially screen. So I'm not as involved in the final landscaping plan but I just wanted to sort of emphasize that there was a big effort that went into that a lot of coordination, a lot of can we move the duck bank over can we move the road over onto the other side and it was a long struggle. I just want to see if there's any solutions to adding green back into this area and softening that wall again which is what those trees were really doing in that area. I don't know if you can afford to lose a parking space there the one that's in there that's squeezed in there now if that could come back out if some of the parking can become green parking rather than paved parking I don't know if that would work for your clientele, maybe not. Well you're accomplishing with that more or less impervious surface but I think what I'm hearing from you is you'd prefer to have more vertical landscape. Well that would be ideal and maybe there's a solution that will screen some of that wall with you know a different solution whether vines there's a talk about vines on the upper wall maybe adding vines quality and cooling benefits from having trees that's a my informal calculus on the number of trees seems like a lot to lose. We want to get you to summary and we will but I do feel confident that we've actually put it to the landscaping of the plan knowing the sensitivity of this issue I bet we have not been able to add or keep the same in this courtyard just because of the constraints of it but we've made sure that we've increased it on the site and haul. So I was just looking for the email that you put together. I haven't been successful yet but if I find it here in the next few minutes maybe I can share some of the balance. It's related to Christine's line of questioning on going up Sims Road there's the sidewalk on the southerly side of Sims Road and then where the wall is and that the width between the edge of the sidewalk and the wall can you tell us what that width is how much area for green space would you have there up in here I'll go down along the wall as you go towards the entrance it's increased all the way down on the street side it was several feet I can get an exact number I think before it was four or five and it looks like it's doubled and width how wide is the sidewalk up there five feet so it looks like before it was probably five and now it's probably maybe not doubled that but it's was that the side that the middle locus was yeah so why are we losing some up there you're not losing you're adding the wall moved in a little bit that's what I thought which is a good point that's nice for the public I agree that's a positive it's just detracts the it seems like your entrance which was always very tight to begin with and very paved you did a nice job in the landscape plan before now you've lost a lot of that effect for your own do any guests park inside you said that sometimes they could they could yeah what's the allocation inside how's it work we designated spots I don't think we might do that maybe up near the elevator there's a couple of accessible spots near the elevator but beyond that it usually develops as the community matures could you stand to lose a spot up there well yeah I mean I don't have a short answer for you on that and I probably should not be the one to pass judgment on our operations teams fairly detailed about the importance of it clearly we prefer to have more than we have today so I'd be hesitant to say but I do think you're hearing reluctance on that one spot that's jammed up there instead of green space I mean it's we don't have anything in front of us we don't have pictures maybe if you were to show us pictures we'd be less inclined but just in looking at it if there's an opportunity to put the planting in there then maybe we're okay it looks like it's jammed it's going to be hard pressed up against a wall the person on the passenger side will be able to get out of the car essentially one would think and you know it's just so that one isn't let's look into it let's get the as-built landscape or if it's not as-built yet I know but the proposed changes to the landscape and maybe project and think about vines on the wall possibly something that's not invasive as as much force season interest as possible because there were thoughts of doing that on the upper the upper wall also because it's so stark the one that goes up around the upper vista park is very stark so and even if there's any consideration of doing some type of green paving on at least that space if that's a possibility if that's a space that can handle that I know the handicapped spaces can't but maybe that space in particular replace the asphalt with the pervious material not just pervious but a lawn type material reinforced lawn there's a lot of products out there I don't know which one would be best for your clients there's the rings the grass pave there's concrete things there's a combination you could do a combination of pavers lawn something to soften it up with that maybe that dovetails run into the next subject actually the concrete the walkway I wasn't sure if you commented on the snow storage will you still have snow storage on site? we do have snow storage on site I can't tell you what the score footage of that snow storage area is but we do so it's not it appears like it's no longer in the location that was marked on the 50% I believe it was moved but I don't know how it compares I'd have to check on that tomorrow where is it now? it's in that whole area where that parking space was I'm afraid that they might use the center area now for snow storage which would be another real shame Christine Kuchit said she said that green strip now ranges from 7 to 10 feet it was 5 feet up at the top which is nice it is and that center walkway what kind of trip hazard were you trying to eliminate? it didn't appear to have a trip hazard from the original plan we've had in the senior environment even the slightest even the rubber transition strips that we specify are constantly scrutinized because if you're moving with very little strength and velocity with a walker even the slightest bump is a problem the concern here was although we like that from a design perspective I like it you have somebody getting out of a car and walking around in the building from concrete to asphalt from asphalt to concrete and they just tend to settle slightly different and the concern was even that half inch difference in height on the vertical not only does it become an ADA issue but it's just a tripping issue unfortunately because before you had a very nice wide fan area of concrete where people could get out on either side of concrete and walk on to concrete there was no change in material now you have a very narrow strip which is is it just painted? it's not a changing material it's painted but you're going from bituminous to a concrete walk and what's the dark shaded narrow band are those detectable warnings up near the building? those are tactile warning strips back in because before they weren't necessary now you have them again we're required to have those Katya had convinced us that it wasn't required during the design process because we had asked specifically I had asked specifically about that and she actually emailed me the legislation in 2010 it was dropped it's only required at and she was right it's only required at train stations along the edge everywhere else it's optional so you may want to consider I brought it up thinking it was mandatory but it's not any Eric runs his designs through Debbie Ryan an accessibility consultant and when she reviewed the building as well as the site and her feedback was that they were required that's how they ended up they're finding that those things are actually more of a hindrance than they are helping so if you can not have it it might be too is it flush the paving so there's no curve there no it's a flush it's a slope up and then there's a whole zone of flush it's a flush sidewalk condition but not all the way around so again I don't really see how that helps you with the change of materials now you have a change of material whereas before you had concrete on concrete the issue with the fan shaped concrete was that when the when their van stops here or somebody comes up in a car anybody gets down on the driver's side and has to walk around the vehicle there's the potential to get on, off, asphalt concrete when we have a normal site that has a little room out front usually there's a very large swath concrete not stamped or anything you don't even do stamped concrete because that's too much of an elevation change we'd like to do that at entrances we tried to do that here even though we had limited space that's how Cautier originally designed it but the concern operationally was that if anybody had to get out of the car and walk around it they might have to get on to asphalt from asphalt the concrete at that point when you're walking up to a sidewalk going up an attack on a warning strip or going up a curb cut, that kind of thing I think you anticipate that when you're getting out of a car you're not necessarily anticipating that because there's potential for a tripping hazard did you consider making it larger rather than smaller? Yeah, we'd like to it just got huge we have pervious pavement around here that was part of the original approval if I remember correctly and as the concrete comes out is it feasible? Yeah I think it would be feasible but at the end of the day we decided let's try to keep everything in the same material out there for the convenience of a tripping issue Shelter would have liked it better the way we had it originally aesthetically so the narrow strip that goes from the door to the center, that's what you're asking one material that it's the same it's asphalt so there'd be it's a crosswalk one other thing, Christine we've actually experienced on this property since we started developing here in New England Rhode Island, Danvers where we've had these different materials meeting, we get differential freeze and thaw I was really the one vocalizing to Eric, we really don't like it we haven't had good experience with it and the one thing with keeping it all asphalt it all performs uniformly down at Brayfew Commons in Rhode Island, every year we have to deal with sidewalks and curves that lift as much as an inch and a half, two inches in the winter once and then go back down it's very difficult to avoid those tripping hazards so really the push was just to keep it all asphalt and deal with safety more than aesthetics became the driver I feel like visually you lost a safety zone almost that people may have felt comfortable in when they got in and out of cars, now that's not there anymore because it's just going to be blocked up if it hadn't been made if it had been colored by two minutes an interval color or something that could have at least designated that zone somehow you need to talk about trying to get a small piece of that make it look like brick or something and the thought was it's going to wear out there's stuff called street printed that wears but there's imprint that doesn't wear out the people are using it crosswalks now that also has an interval color it's a resin material it's not actually asphalt it's a resin that sits down just like three-eighths of an inch into the asphalt it's flushed with the surrounding asphalt they use it across walks for that express reason so that it doesn't wear out it's an expensive material but it could have accomplished that and we agree with you we typically do that we try to give somebody a sense of arrival I think a different material because of the radial nature of the syndrome it became a little difficult the imprint is something you could consider you could look into it it can be done after the fact because what they do is they just mill out a section of the bituminous and it's a very narrow section you could even just key it in along the edges and have it have a slight bow a concave a pillow type of a question coming up I'm just making a note to follow up again it's called imprint rather than the street paint which is the slurry that they paint on both of them are a product that can be stamped also but you don't have to stamp it you can stamp it with different patterns and brush sand into the stamped area so it actually looks like a mortar joint it's a nice material and it seems to have held up well over the years use it on a lot of bike paths now do you think it's something that would mimic that original fan? there's a wide variety of color choices so you could pick a color that would work out well you can actually do it after the fact through infrared where they actually mill exactly, you could just key in the edges and infrared the center and put it down, it's a hot material I think when it goes down the resin material there's about 50,000 BTU heater that's in sections and then rework the asphalt but you can do everything in place and more on the circle because we moved down to the bottom the patio fence is that man down at the very bottom? this is the patio the little outdoor here we call it a little bit of cooking chimney chimney it's not allowed in Argentina resident wearers I don't know if they'd be allowed here they're not outdoor fireplace so this area in general this strip of green here basically is the only outdoor common space the residents have to enjoy through trying to maximize it as much as possible, as narrow as it is so this patio provides an opportunity to sit out beyond the porch out in the sun or the shade of the woods back here it's the one place where you really enjoy the outdoors so the yellow area is patio the rest is lawn? and that's why I was asking about the double fence is there a fence at the heavy line also? yeah, there's a fence right here this is right at the edge of the hill and then there's another one inside of that there are two fences and you need both of those just for the great change this obviously is a very significant great change here it's very slight but for the seniors it's just a visual barrier as much as anything else so is it a step down from the existing porch? the way the porch is the way the patio concrete is placed it's similar to the front, actually it's sloped up for a flush transition at the porch for an ADA compliant fee risk there do people sit all the way around on the patio? not behind it, just in what shape? the other one, the one that's closer in here? all the way around all the way... since ballast and roof right here it ends here so it just becomes a roof? correct but the area where you have your new fence that's a screened-in porch? this is a screened-in porch and the rest of it's just an open patio the rest is open that's for the original semi-draughts do we have any elevations of the new patio area? great to show the fence that's kind of what this was item 5 that's where that's taking... I don't have an elevation of the patio this is at the fence of the building so the patio comes out if I'm reading this right, the patio pretty much comes out from this area right? from there out to about here that's your walk-off area so this is old patio that's right but the only thing we'd be picking up on an elevation would be the fence this is the flush area then, right? it's ramping up to slightly so you don't need the fence and then everywhere else there's a little bit of a change the garage is below that does the upgrade patio go all the way to the corner? there yup, these are the there's two units in here that have resident patios that's actually the outline of the garage talk about this retaining wall earlier, Mike, in the elevations that's where we're talking about that's where you were talking about you see the old one used to be long but the grids last about that that's not visible from the other side that's right here on this okay we'll move to the sides why don't we talk about for a second, why don't you present that please do you guys hold things? no, this is new tonight and thank you Bethanne for bringing me the truck what are we looking at? that's right around here more or less that picture was taken from Summer Street so it's very visible what is it? it's the exhaust from the generator it's in the garage so there's a generator on the side here the generator was placed in the garage obviously the generator is very unsightly so it's hidden in the garage the fuel tank is also located in the garage the intake air is basically flushed with the ground so that's not visible the one thing that couldn't be visible was the exhaust which needs to be a certain distance from the building, a certain distance from the intake a certain distance from the ground it looks worse now and it will be because the ground is dug around away from it when the final grade is laid out it's much shorter than it looks it's also scheduled to be painted the same color as the beige color the building behind it as well as to be landscaped can you show me where it is on the landscape? because maybe it will be hidden by the landscape quite a bit so is it on the it's not actually on the slope is it? no it's up above actually it looks like it's on the slope yes this is all dug out around it as part of the installation when the grade levels out it will be so it's on the riprap slope that's being covered with a sieve melt mix right now it's been it's just over the edge right on the top of the slope so it will be in front of the trees possibly rather than you won't see it from your building but you may see it from looking up this way yeah I think we've got this plan is to plant around it it's right around the edge there flat on the slope the plan is to plant around it paint it to match the building behind it as you're driving up the street, summer street it from almost every angle it has that beige color behind it so the thought was to paint that color so it matches a little better if we're going to plant around it maybe it would be good to know what we're planting and how big it's going to get it may be that painting it beige is the worst color you may want to paint it green that was another option if there's going to be evergreens whether she's putting rhododendrons or that might be helpful to know what she's putting there yeah that would be very helpful yeah I'm sure you need it there there's no question about you needing it it's just how to camouflage it we'll make sure that's included with the issues that would be good thank you it looks like it's about it's about here at the top of the slope based on this it looks like it might be a little down on the slope because this is the mulch that we brought but if it's dug around it might be an optical illusion because if it's dug around it's a little lower than it is either way it's kind of in front of the trees it's unfortunately got some height to it it's not as dramatic as this is portrayed right now but it's got some height to it it's like a thing on the end it's got a I don't know why it's got a candy cane shape to it I think it's just a weather cap the height is by code it needs to be a certain height unfortunately it's got to be a certain distance away from the building okay well there's things that can hide it it's got a range of evergreen plants that's exactly what it is going to be you know we're already having these large evergreens here these are white pines it looks like if the plan has stayed the same these are much narrower a bright cedar like maybe just wrapping those around it more if we can do that on that area so we'll catch up on something I'm sure distance needs to be the plant's need to be away from it we'll get a definitive answer I mean maybe just putting them around the back of it letting it shoot out and making it the same color as the plant's the plant's fine maybe she can tell us how much of it will be exposed after the regrading the finished grade the documents used is it the same color? you know they look like two different colors they're the same color one I just did oh okay they are they stuck the car on the side of summer street that was from summer street that was taking it for the zoom I took it with the zoom but it was taking it from summer street it's clearly visible from the road just to let you folks know how visible it was yep before moving on to the sign then let's recap some of the site plan requests that I guess you're hearing from us number one is the landscape plan is going to be very important for us to understand it's specifically around the exhaust pipe and the courtyard and to understand what that in the end is going to look like does anyone have any other comments with or requests with respect to the building itself all the different changes one through what have you I didn't hear any so I'm not giving any homework with respect to those okay Carol anything else on not regarding the building okay great okay and then once again it's not a public hearing so we're not doing that right now okay and then let's move on to the signs before we do maybe it's it's part of the landscape plan but are we asking the developer to come back with any rethinking of the courtyard area the parking, the walkway we're going to look at the options for landscaping and we'll explain that to you if that's sufficient prefer to keep the parking if we can't then we'll talk to you about possibly looking at removing the parallel space an options for the parking softening the other option is softening the parking with an impervious on the walls bring some of that back and maybe the insert idea for the entrance area I also recall and don't mind putting a fine point on it that the board had asked that the honey locusts not all be honey locusts but there's some mix of other varieties actually I don't know if we want on that yeah I don't think so yeah I don't know it went to honey locusts I think it did we asked them to reconsider yeah but I do think you're hearing quite a bit of reluctance on that parking spot and snow storage and wanting to understand where it is got that precise location and the accounting of where the plantings went that's part of the plan Bruce anything? no thank you for clarifying okay moving on to signage so to give you a sense of where we are right at the main entrance right at the main entrance to the building to the site this sign is just adjacent to the entry drive here if you're not familiar with it this is the sign shown right here like the rest of the site there's a street light there there's a sign this grade to get up to the existing street this walkway our walkway off our site is technically a ramp per code it's a 1-12 slope so it requires handrails that's what you see here this is the signage that we're talking about here that has changed we have a couple of good photos to show you if there are any questions about the walkway itself so that's a change also if that's now a ramp with a railing yeah that's something that our code consultant pointed out it is a ramp and requires handrails up to the public right away and that's a baller right there at the end? the parking spot? no to the right here? yeah what is that? I think that's one of our control lights post not a baller it's all the way up one of the things you can know here is originally both of the lights were on one side of the sign one of the changes here is that one lights on this side one lights on that side that came about as we we're out here looking at, we're all grayed out we see the sign coming down the street so the thought was that the lights ought to be spread out so you can see the sign from either direction this is one of the it's a symbolic obviously this is one of the street lights that's coming down the street here it's located, oh no it's kind of it's so blown up that the post actually is over here oh I see it's open over yeah you're kind of seeing the light itself okay so I could jump to the actual sign we're going to get more questions about the yeah the lights that are on the sign on either side now we're seeing exact lights that were in the plan yeah the same specification on those yeah the same so this is the actual sign before and after this came about basically just because the bright view sign standards change the net result is it has same granite post on either side of it but it's a little more translucent it's a little more like a residential fence it's supposed to symbolize the sign itself is actually substantially smaller than it was before it's just kind of a different style of fence the height of the post is the same the sign itself is smaller it's just got that little bit of residential what's intended to look like a raw iron fence behind it is the railing on the sidewalk does it also it's just a railing it has no picket right it's not an end fence it's just a rail but then we have a railing on the street for a fence up a little higher from this up on a wall yes the width of the of the sign and where they grab here that's a little shorter than what it was before too correct the sign itself is a little bit smaller I have to say I think the sign itself is much more attractive with the you know the colored version that you gave us I don't know if you have that there also I think the sign itself is much nicer but the the railing behind it is very distracting to me is that your standard actually now that is the standard it is is it we just installed the first one at north and over and that's yep I have to say it's very distracting to me and I would prefer just to see it nice and clean just the sign even a little bigger than that if you wanted to without all the railing work behind it maybe in the reality of it it looks really sharp I don't know on the drawing it looks a little distracting I think to our marketing folks it looks really sharp how do you like it now that you have it going in the ground I think it looks better that north and over looks fabulous it really does that's not the purve you will have in your eyes it's a different just delivering a message it does fall under our purve unfortunately or fortunately I hope you're being as acceptable that we'd like to keep consistent actually it's encouraging your response to the sign itself because that's what our folks have been after when this morning matches the fonts for example exactly that it ties in nicely even the colors are nice the granite will be nice like I said maybe in reality the lines will grow up no they won't that's a good question there is the planting still there I know the areas got a little tighter the planting in front of the sign now on both sides of the sign now that it's two sides Kachi's aware of that she's redeveloping the landscaping so there will still be landscape there what color is the railing black which is the same color carol as the decorative fence that runs up along Sins Road anything else so I think hopefully different things that we'd like to see if you can get that to us then next week I think the best thing might be March 31st is a pretty full night right now but I think we'll be able to talk about this at that point if we and then hopefully wrap this piece of it up okay I appreciate your response thank you I will do one thing before you all leave this was a public hearing so why don't we do this I will take public comment on the design changes that we're talking about here if you have questions on anything else then you should do that at another time as an agenda item or whatever else but if folks from the public have comments on the design changes please keep them short and to the point that's fine public comment the bus that is being parked out underneath the street light right next to the garage and it sticks out I couldn't hear you Laura Laura my colleague here excuse me Brattle Street the bus that is parked out there exceeds the length of the spot it's supposed to be in and it really prevents cars going into the garage properly the bigger problem is that the light that's right underneath that it's left off the white van and it blows into our neighborhoods again so from what I understand I spoke to Rick about it this morning there was supposed to be moved when I came down tonight it had been moved where in the plant is it now going to be parked so so the question is there's a has improved during the whole process that was a a parking spot for the bus yes so that's what is as planned so where is it going now so the question is you're saying you're asking if that is going to be moved I think is the number one question my understanding is that it has been moved is it moved permanently if so where is it going to be parked now clearly it does not fit into the garage it's too tall so where in the courtyard is it going to be parked do you have any sense for where it's happening with the bus so right now our intention really is to keep it in its current location we do it right now because of your concerns we have landscaping planned in that area it's just not the season to have and we're not fully completed on our landscaping yet but the idea is acknowledging that you're saying there's some glare coming off that street light hitting the van is something you know we probably did not anticipate so we do already have some landscaping there but will we visit the amount of landscaping what we can do to try and reduce the glare it really is the right location for that van for the main reasons that we want to keep as many available parking spaces at the surface level near the entry as we can but we can provide some so if you have someone driving into the garage and they're not really paying attention and they can't really quite gauge I'm looking at the population that you have in your facility and they can't quite gauge either side your truck is going to get creamed the bus and what we're getting into here is a little bit beyond the scope of what we're talking about but it is an issue that's fine but not an issue for this evening anything else for the public since an outdoor death and freedman haso-terrorist a fire place from my understanding isn't permitted in Arlington once again we'll ask them I'm assuming that they're going to have all of their fire inspections etc and trust me I'm sure Chief Jefferson will make sure that everything is within code BBQs are allowed so it's a fire pit may not be but once again this isn't the purview of this board so if there's a concern I'm sure the fire chief will take it up okay thank you alright I would just like to clarify something I want to clarify when Mike said this was a hearing I think you meant I apologize this had been a hearing I'm sorry this had been this is not a hearing my apologies if I missed misspoke I tried to make that abundantly clear at the beginning but you're right I probably missed folks thank you alright thank you now we're going to move thanks thanks David appreciate that we'll give you one minute yeah yeah sure thanks David appreciate that we'll give you one minute yeah yeah sure thanks good luck good luck start back up okay gonna bring it back to work we're getting a glass of water here so the next item on the agenda is for recommendations on the zoning bylaw amendment so we had our public hearing on March 3rd regarding the zoning one articles that were brought before us there were four and what you have in front of you right now is a draft report for the Arlington from the Arlington redevelopment board two town meeting with respect to those four articles so within this there were a couple placeholders for the report and what I'd like to do tonight is take a vote on each of the articles as well as talk about the report a little bit and what we want to say about it and then I think what we would do is we would have been voted but the one thing I think we'll have time to do is we'll do a more complete report for town meeting based on those votes and provide them to the board and we could maybe have a vote on do we vote on the report itself? usually you vote on my recollection in past years you decide on your recommended vote and then that gets worked into a report that finalizes the report and then that goes to the board's office for distribution to town meeting members so maybe what we can do with that report once we get it done is get it out to board members and you can collect any administrative comments that they might have to or something like that and if there's more than administrative comments I think we'll have enough time to get it on agenda for the next meeting to learn about what the report ends up saying other than just administrative matters so does that sound like a plan then? okay so the first article that we went through was on the zoning of registered marijuana dispensaries and as you might recall we had a conversation and heard a few comments on the citing of those dispensaries from the inter what would you call it the group that had advanced the notion of citing these in B3 and B5 and that's what you've got in front of you so any comments or anything else on those or any other questions? my reaction to this is I think the more article that is written is actually pretty straightforward we're following the definition of medical marijuana treatment center from the state statute practically verbatim we've talked about what the right districts are and thought that B5 would be too restrictive because there's so few of those districts and they're all clustered in the center so the B3 district would open up citing to East Arlington and the Heights and also have a few more districts potentially available and making this a special permit matter which is sort of the third leg of the article seems to make sense and it reflects the input that working group composed of the chair and the Department of Public Health and the Chief of Police Planner Director and others that have weighed in so I think it's good as written I agree I had a nice discussion last time about the buffer zones and you know to keep them away from child focused juices and I think Carol explained that very well at the hearing we had as to why it doesn't make sense to map that out right now and the B3 and the B5 right now at the good locations based on what's happening today and you've mapped out all the schools so we know that we're at that 500 foot buffer zone right from all the B3 and the B5 yeah and if it were and if a B3 did come closer then that would be automatically knocked out of the locks at that time yeah so I think I agree with Bruce that everything is written very straight forward and captures what we needed to I agree with both Bruce and Christine I think it's very well written great you're good any other comments no only I will offer to put together the department can put together any type of maps that the board thinks you'll need to present this at the time meeting a single layer showing a single map showing where B3 and B5 are the public schools on it I'm also thinking about trying to take some of the feedback you've heard from the public and trying to address that through maps if possible or give you some talking points because one of you will most likely be presenting this and what might be helpful and I think we can talk about it when we get closer to giving up presenters and all that kind of good stuff is what we might want to do is even set up a series of slides with different overlays you know here's B5 and B3 and if people start to say well what about you know other ones you can kind of start maybe layering on top of that what the other districts would do with kind of like a if you keep to the next slide it would show B4 or you show you know B1 and all the little houses you know the commercial professional you know places and houses but once again I think if we did that as we get closer to presenting that might be helpful one point that we might want to bear in mind in making the presentation that came from the public comment period for this meeting was the question of whether one could apply for a location without having a permit to operate and the way that this weren't article if it were to become part of a bylaw change the table of use regulations with that article item 7.10 is that in order to apply for a special permit you have to have been permitted to operate by the Arlington Board of Health and that's already in the language it is as such by Arlington Board of Health but I think that's something that's worth mentioning that's really nice to be helpful in an overlay to have kind of what for those people that don't know what the EDR process is to have a summary of what we go through on the EDR process just a bulleted slide with that so that they know that we're going to be looking at this as we do all of our special permits yeah you know what that would be a good one to have probably for questions I'll be interested to see you know I definitely want to speak with tell manager as well as Christine on this as well as far as kind of giving up time and who's best to speak to a few of these things so I think we want to make sure that when we present that we have the ability to kind of go from one route to another fairly seamlessly you know try to make sure we get people's questions answered by the right people to make sense to also the presentation overview of any state prerequisites before you even go out to the town level yeah you're right kind of kind of layer it down like Star Broad and move up like how that would work yeah Star Broad and move to local yeah that's a good point and that speaks to Bruce what we've brought up too about whether you can apply before you get yes I'll fill that out a little more and you mentioned the group that Analyze didn't work on until what you did before yeah definitely yeah we'll definitely talk about the group the police chief and the various of the attorney department all and the the town manager planning director it must have been a working group it wasn't a public meeting then I think if you know we've got some work to do on presentation and a little bit to do on the report itself but you know maybe I'd entertain a motion to upload the recommended vote as written so moved second second by Andy all in favor aye okay that brings us to article number seven which is the the affordable units designated as a I'm sorry I'll just read it to see if the town will vote to or take any action related there to to amend section 11.08 08D of the zoning by-law to increase the required percentage of residential units designated as affordable units within any new project. This was Mr. Belskis a warrant article as you might recall Mr. Belskis presented he did not have any language for us as he wasn't sure what he wanted to either increase it whether he wanted to increase it at all or whether he just wanted to keep it rather nebulous right now as you might recall it's 15% so you might also recall that Laura and Carol informed us that you know they did do a survey of surrounding towns and everyone was right around the 10 to 15% threshold on this so with that as background you know going on again reaction to this is that since the warrant doesn't suggest what it should be increased to I find it vague and would not be of very much guidance to developers or to the board and I'm also concerned that increasing the required percentage would make we take a step closer to a 40 B proposal instead of choosing the traditional zoning route so my recommendation would be a vote of no action Christian I would agree with that for all the same reasons would agree for the exact same reasons I completely agree I didn't hear a compelling reason to change it and I feel more doubts about changing it than I do positive reactions to it I tried to delve into why he wanted to increase it relative to his concerns about 40 B projects and I didn't really understand pluses and minuses clearly enough so I would strongly recommend that this is a no action until we know much better how to proceed if at all on this kind of thing but we also don't want to discourage development at a certain level we want to make the right mix and we're at 15% right now which is at the high end of many municipalities I think that's right I think the one thing I would add too as we've talked about during this whole master planning process there are some things that just have the feeling that they should be part of the discussion during the master plan and this obviously belongs in that discussion and I think when we started the master plan we talked about trying to beware of zoning articles that really should almost be part of that discussion and I think that this one clearly fits in that scope as well along with everything that everyone else has said as well I would also recommend an no action like this one Carol anything so with that in mind entertain a motion for no action on article 7 second all in favor okay article 8 I'm actually going to do something a little bit different here I don't think that if you've been to town meeting long enough you'll realize that sometimes there is a kind of push and pull between the finance committee and the board of selectmen on certain articles that have a little bit of both there's a finance piece to it and the other and often times what you see in there is it says the finance committee will report on this article or the selectmen will report on this article I don't think that a no action vote is something that we want to entertain in this regard because we're not really speaking to this is the dark skies article that was not presented to us and that in fact has been now presented to the board of selectmen because in the end this is the one that they're looking to amend a current regular bylaw not a zoning bylaw so it was kind of put in our basket of articles and it shouldn't have been so I think what I would entertain here is a recommendation that we put in there to know if we need to take this vote but let's take it anyway I'd entertain a vote to simply say within the report this will be reported out by the board of selectmen sounds good not this will be or we record no this will be because it will be and it's not in our purview so I don't think we have to go into too much of that I might put a couple sentences in the report talking about kind of a little bit of the history but in the end I don't think we should take an actual vote on this one because it's going to be in the board of selectmen the board is understanding that this will be yes it is our understanding that yes exactly it is our understanding that this will be reported out by the board of selectmen so does someone want to like I said I'm not sure I got to move this one but let's try it anyway I moved that the board not vote on the article and instead simply note that this will be reported out by the board of selectmen do you have a second on that second sorry to make you do that all in favor okay I was actually expecting you I was actually expecting you just to say yeah I mean yeah I moved that and then I was going to work on it with Carol I've never phrased a vote I've never thought about it we'll work on it like I said I don't think we had to do that so I think you can simply say that this will be reported out by the board of selectmen because I talked to the town moderator he wasn't going to listen to us anyway on it so it doesn't matter okay article 9 is with respect to and this one we should vote this was with respect to outdoor seating for restaurants and it specifically wants a new section of the zoning 10 added to the zoning bylaw so we should report out about this one this is as you might recall we've been informed by the town council that that use of public spaces or public ways I should say is in the purview of the board of selectmen and not in ours so that this is not the correct place for this particular adding this article to the zoning bylaw is not the correct thing to do I can read the email again I do have it but essentially I'm really missing the grayed area has made the sense yeah hello yeah sorry thank you I'll just read that the board has been informed by council that the public ways is under the authority and jurisdiction of the selectmen and is therefore not a matter for zoning it is important to note that this article appears to duplicate an application and review process for outdoor seating already in use by the board of selectmen in addition the current regulations provide for the same or greater clear space for pedestrian passage as the proposed bylaw amendment and the current regulations require the applicant to place a bond or insurance certificate to safeguard the town actually so I'll go around with so that's the the report out that actually Carol and I worked on this way comment I don't have anything to add to that I don't understand why we're not voting on this one no we are we are voting on but why are we not not voting on this because it specifically wants us to change the zoning bylaw the other one didn't ask us to change the zoning bylaw if you look at well it said amending a current bylaw amend the town and zoning right and I asked the council about that and it was not concerned about the conjunctive so that the town is the fact that the town is going to change the town bylaw so that's a town bylaw this is a zoning bylaw specifically a zoning bylaw I see so no I appreciate it so that's the difference is because he has specifically recommended a new section to the zoning bylaw okay alright I understand that that's the only question I have it looks fine okay Andrew I don't see any need to change what already exists okay okay then I'll entertain a motion for no action so moved all in favor aye thanks so that's probably the trickiest of the reports so everyone's heard that one so hopefully everyone's okay with that wording that's probably the trickiest of the different of the four yes okay so I think we're done with that and moving on to the agenda so will each one of these need to be presented at town reading? no so we really only have one we only have one we only have one if someone puts in a substitute for one of these three we may be asked for our opinion but we would not present next on the agenda is the master plan update that we're actually on time wow yeah we're still in the working paper phase of the master plan the working papers present issues that have arisen and the questions the community has to wrestle with in each of the plan areas land use and public services and facilities were both presented those papers are still on the website we have housing to be presented economic development right and transportation will follow housing was presented on March 6 and comments are still being accepted on the housing working paper some of the discussion questions are compelling I think at least at the discussion questions and of course to make comments on any of the working papers each working paper is presented it's posted to the website and a very brief survey monkey is then made available that includes some of the discussion questions to try to get additional input from the public so you don't have to only show up to the working paper presentation to comment historic cultural resource areas natural resources open space and recreation will follow in May I think we may end up going into June a little bit at the next meeting the consultant and the committee will be talking about what they then do over the summer because the committee will then need to do a lot of decision making about what kind of recommendations to include the report the plan will then be presented to the board about a year from now for approval to adopt the plan and then it would go to meeting for endorsement so I think the part we've been in this intense period of activity with these working papers and now we really want to develop a schedule activity for what's the expectation over the summer I think the committee wants to know we want to be able to tell the public what the plan decision they can go over the summer so that will be discussed at the next meeting the working papers are going to go throughout the year though right we still have a few more after it's not going to end in June is it I think they will be through I think we should be through by then okay but then of course recommendations there is a visual preference survey that is still in the contract that will visual preference survey the one I've observed is it basically shows different types of building massing and detailing in context in a district and gauges what the community what the public most responds to or feels is most harmonious with other buildings in the district and we also have a we have a we received a grant to look at whether we could improve incentives for links to promote health healthy communities by linking to the Milbrook so this is another way to kind of create some incentives for trying to realize some of the concepts you've heard Andy describe at the December 17th meeting that will be worked into several elements of the master plan and we also expect to get some zoning recommendations from the master plan consultants it was the grant from the grant was from the metropolitan area planning council that might be the same and it's for linking healthy incentives trying to increase healthy communities through zoning so we're going to try to look at what kind of changes we can make to the zoning to promote linkages to the Milbrook because that's where we're you know the thrust of where we're trying to realize some opportunities with the Milbrook which kind of cuts across all of the master plan elements we put the application in so we started looking at the map that there were some good maps created after the Milbrook task force developed the concept and so we're looking at where are the parcels that are where the open channel parcels do they abut town property to try to see where the low hanging fruit would be where the greatest opportunities for connecting the bike path in the Milbrook so it's exciting I think and it makes sense to be doing it right now in the context of the master plan we're trying to leverage other resources to expand the planning we do through the master plan for example the the economic impact of the theater to try to understand more about the spending that those two uses in those two commercial districts create for our local economy so that will also contribute a lot to the economic element of the master plan I thought that study was very valuable oh quite good good on that point I've offered to the tourism and economic development committee to talk a little bit about what the department does in economic development and what local economic development is and what we've been doing the last year and how ATED and the department interact and opportunities for the future they're going through an interesting kind of visioning exercise for their committee so it seemed like an opportune time to talk about what the core activities of local economic development are from a planning department perspective so we can discuss how ATED and the planning department fit together are you how has participation been as you've gone along has it been pretty steady is there public participation any sense of fatigue a little bit I feel a little answering that because I was not at the last presentation I was away I heard it was fairly well attended I think it was slightly less than the last one it's tricky it's challenging we are trying to reach out to all age groups all neighborhoods I wish there were other ways besides having to show up on a weeknight when you really want to be home with your family and there are ways but we don't yet have them in Arlington I hope someday we have some platforms like there's a web-based application called Open Town Hall I think I've mentioned it before another competitor it's called Mind Mixer it gives you a little opportunity to look at a video on a website and then comment so they Open Town Hall can actually record what precinct you're commenting from they can archive the comments and sort them and do some analysis of the comments so that looks like it has some real promise we don't have that yet but it would be great to share facet to our public engagement there's a lot going on in Arlington that competes with people's attention but it's been pretty good there does seem to be a group who continues to come to the events I also see some new faces that I hadn't seen before who seem to now be really engaged because of the master plan so I do take heart in that how about the public comment in the survey and writing comments on the working papers are we getting a lot we are we are trying with each plan element we try to reach out to boards committees and commissions organizations individuals who are known to be interested in that subject not that we only want the usual suspects but it's just one way to ensure we don't overlook the people who are most dedicated to those topics we've been doing a town notice on each when each working paper is out and on the date when the presentation will be made we're posting the we're posting as much information as we can in just the presentations and Arlington community media now has some of the presentations available on demand on the website so you can watch Mike Byrne and I also the director of instructional services and I did 10 things you need to know about zoning and Bruce was very good I learned a lot really? oh that's good to hear I did yeah it was very interesting Mike did a great job he put a lot into it and it's something I think we should try to do from time to time there were a lot of people in the room yeah it was really well attended I think I mentioned at a recent meeting that a town meeting member pulled me aside at a break a few years ago after one of the town one of the zoning bylaw amendment weren't articles tanked and she said you know I really hated voting against that but I don't feel like I know enough about zoning we'll do someday do a workshop so this was a in response to that and there was a lot of interest in town meeting members several of whom couldn't attend asked if it was going to be available so the slides are up on the website and the presentation itself was recorded by ACMI so that's up on the website as well as the other presentations so anyone who feels like oh I've missed so much you can get caught up a lot if you want to have that on your laptop while you're cooking dinner so instead of mpr or something your bedtime reading so I think that covers a lot of brings you up to date a bit Christine would you add anything? I was going to add the video but you just mentioned that that they were online how does does a master plan I guess it doesn't dovetails us but what about the community preservation act what we had talked about for the board I think any master plan that's been done by almost any community in Massachusetts in the last five years has probably had a recommendation that the municipality consider CPA as a funding means to implement a lot of the recommendations that's a little bit of the part before the horse right now because we're still working on the work of the universe yeah everything that comes out of a master plan requires a budget but a lot of it does and the community preservation act was created because there are certain categories that always are put off because there are higher priorities for funding historic preservation portable housing and open space and recreation those are the categories that benefit from the community preservation act in fact that's kind of a segue the redevelopment board is not required to comment on community preservation act warrant article but I would not be surprised if you are asked what does the board have a position so you may want to consider whether you will take a position if asked because if you're asked at a meeting and you're kind of caught off guard it could be a missed opportunity but if you feel that it's not I just want you to know that you might be asked so that warrant article goes before the board of select men or it has actually and it will be reported out from then what the agenda is for March 31 but just knowing what we've already got stacked up for that I think it would be difficult to kind of have that discussion on the 31st so that would be my only concern did ACMI video that one also the presentation but on the Arlington Land Trust annual meeting since it was a land trust meeting I was there and I I don't remember seeing anybody but they might have been there they're so quiet in the background don't even know they're there we could find out because we could all watch that those would be helpful and those at work could watch it to remind themselves of everything that was said and help us have a discussion about it but I think maybe what we'll try to do is which actually before we get to minutes just about meetings so the next meeting is scheduled for the 31st 331 then we have a few hiccups that we should probably talk about yeah this is a tough one because April has Passover is April 4th the first night of Passover is April 14th I think generally it's probably better if we can avoid meeting that night depending on what's on your agenda and who let me see the following week is April 19th it's the Patriots Day beginning of school vacation week right April 7th is one week after your next meeting it might be that we want to put a placeholder in for April 7th I guess because then April 28th we will definitely have a meeting that is the first night of town meeting and Andrew what we will typically do is wait for an hour from 7 to 8 we'll actually stay in stay in session or do we just release us and go down there the way that the new open meeting laws work is we always have to stay in session when we go down to town meetings so if we need to act as a board we can do so while we're down there so we'll go down there at 8 to the town address and they'll go through the first articles zoning is always after they get through the kind of more ceremonial warrant articles zoning is right off the bat so the first one up will be the medical marijuana and treatment centers aren't we going to change that I didn't get it through this I didn't get it through this year so no same old this year so we'll present early and what that the good news in all of that is for those members who are not members of town meeting it means that it's an early exit from town meeting usually Carol any I don't have the warrant so I wonder any idea when the when the community preservation act that's the only one that we might want to consider trying to figure out when that's going to be and have the board go to that so so in essence we may or may not get through that warrant article on the first night but there is a possibility because it is article 6 that we could possibly get through that warrant article and then 789 if there's no controversy around the different actions we've taken tonight there's a possibility that even in the first night we could we could be done with the zoning articles if not I would definitely expect to be done by the second night which is the Wednesday after the Monday so so I think we should schedule the 7th for now and see what comes up see what we can handle on the 31st see if there's any overflow because right now the 31st is kind of jam packed I think so we may want to have that as our overflow anyway and if the things that I can move off we can probably do just that so in a way we won't make the 31st an absolute marathon so and then we'd skip on the 14th and the 21st and we'd be back in session on the 28th for the first night of town meeting so does that sound like a plan? okay sounds good alright are we presenting anything on the master plan of this town meeting as far as like just a summary of what's going to happen you know it's an interesting so at the beginning of every at the beginning of every town meeting session there is reports and announcements and that type of thing so the master plan advisory committee could actually do a report which might make more sense which might make more sense than us doing the report and then having to kind of see the time over right so you may want to talk about that with Judy and with the chair yeah exactly that's what yeah that's an important opportunity for town meeting members and for the committee but the good news there is it doesn't have to be that it doesn't have to be right at the beginning with all the zoning articles or anything else what I meant by that was you can do it at any of the sessions at the beginning of the session the announcements and reports does the moderator always cause for reports exactly exactly so you know if the person isn't a member of the town meeting although yeah need to think about that or ask the moderators it doesn't have to be introduced by somebody but that's easy enough it has to be introduced by a town meeting member yeah but I could do it well actually I may not be able to I'm up for re-election so there you go yeah it's a campaign not for me if I make it I make it if people are spoken all your supporters will be tough for them they will be crushing blow but anyway so not being cavalier about it so anyway that's the thought process on that I think a report by the master plan advisor would be great just a one sheet I think town meeting members deserve to hear that but a few of them are town meeting members too on the committee aren't they yeah there are a good number actually would be a nice yeah it would be nice maybe for one of those members to get up and do it exactly yeah they could introduce introduce the whole committee call out all the town meeting members especially that are there that would be very nice yeah just to describe the process so that when it comes up before them because it's going to come before the next year right that's right so this is kind of the prelude yeah good okay great I think the last item on our agenda is minutes from the March 3rd hearing I thought they were perfect I think we just leave it at that make a motion to approve did she write that she wrote this did she they were very good but I did have a couple of comments on the second page when it says this is about the fourth paragraph the board then turned to article 8 on outdoor lighting and I think that we may want to add something like this article was submitted both as a zoning article and as a general bylaw article and the chair noted that the subject of outdoor lighting like noise would be more appropriate addressed by the general bylaw as opposed to the zoning bylaw which was also the opinion shared by the town moderator and town council accordingly the board did not discuss the merits of this warrant article because I don't think we really did I think you're right and then we can still add in that Christian Klein made his observation but that was really my only thought on that one that's great that you happen to write that out I did write that out and I'm going to pass it over to Harold so she can maybe we'll appreciate that she did a good job for the first one Christian? No, that was actually it I thought it was perfect the second page Mr. Fitzsimmons moved to close the public portion of the hearing that whole paragraph is a little clumsy because of the events that happened there where it was closed then we moved to the mitts then we had to come back and reopen the public comments and I would understand why Amy didn't get it because yeah it was very confusing oh that's a good suggestion and then the last line should say Mr. Sipinski moved and all voted in favor and all voted in favor where's that last one Mr. Sipinski moved thank you I think you need just at the end of that sentence and all voted in favor and do you need anything? no I think right underneath that Carol maybe we usually put the vote to adjourn in there or do we not do that all the time? we usually do yeah so whatever the usual language is there I don't think we went too great to Amy do any of the things I had were on the first page sorry just one more please thank you so the first thing I had where we say that the chairman opened the meeting do we want to say the chairman opened the public hearing? we don't really have anywhere in here that this was a public hearing sure and then just one of my old things is where it says the board discussed the difficulty of separating the cultivation dispensing location sounds like the board is trying it exactly just town council is going to get a CEL and then the only other thing I had was on the first sentence of the long paragraph on that page third line well and then the second line is and then the medical marijuana treatment center would have to get a special permit from the town through environmental design review if this zoning article passed do you want to say apply for it instead of get? yeah and then the medical marijuana treatment center would have to apply for it yeah and that's all I had on this so I'll change the motion to approve the minutes as amended so moved second all in favor? aye that was Andrew Andy on the second anything else on the board all right motion to adjourn second all in favor? aye thank you look ahead