 Good morning. Another episode of the nonprofit show. This is part two of our drill down with Pearl Hoagland and she's joined us here today as Director of Fundraising Academy. Yesterday's conversation is very similar today. We're just going deeper. So it's all about building rapport with the gatekeepers. So before we dive deep into this conversation, we want to remind you who you are seeing or possibly listening to. So hello to you Julia. Julia Patrick is the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. I'm Jarrett Ransom, you're a nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. We are continuously proud to have our presenting sponsors with us day in and day out to elevate these levels of conversation like the one we're having with Pearl today. So a huge shout out of gratitude goes to our great friends over at Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at the National University. Again, hello and good morning to Pearl. We also want to give a shout out to Be Generous, Donate Now, Pay Later, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, nonprofit thought leader as well as the nonprofit nerd. If you haven't checked out these companies, we highly encourage you to do so and we highly endorse their services. We've gotten to know them over the last almost four years now and they are all so amazing to help you provide more services in and around and throughout your communities to elevate your own mission. And hey, if you missed any of our episodes over these last three and a half, four years, you should know where to find us by now, but that's okay. I'm going to remind you. Roku, YouTube, Amazon, Fire TV, Vimeo, as well as podcast form. So if you're a podcast listener like I am, and Pearl, I'm curious, are you a podcast listener? I am a podcast listener. Yes, me too. You can cue us up wherever you stream your podcast. So you just heard that she's a podcast listener. Yesterday, Pearl was here with us for part one of this drill down series. And again, for those of you that aren't familiar with Pearl, Pearl Hogan is the director of Fundraising Academy at National University. And the first question out of the gate, Pearl, what podcast are your favorite? It is so good to be back. I love crime podcasts. It's terrible, but the investigative podcasts really just, that is how I disconnect from the world. That's good. We all need that. We all need that time. Yes, very much so. Well, you know, Pearl, it's really fabulous to have you on with us because we were saying this yesterday. We work so much with you on the leadership side, but we don't always get you and your voice of wisdom. And so this is a really cool opportunity for us. We love all of our partners from Fundraising Academy. They're just amazing. They're all different, but yet they all can navigate the cause selling cycle. It's really fun to see that. I think from Jared and I and our point of view. But when we get you on, you're like what we call the big get. So thank you for joining us. Well, thanks for having me. I have to say I love our trainers. I love they make us look good and bring those diverse perspectives. So it's always fun to be here and I do really enjoy watching them on the show. Yeah, they're great. And again, it is fun. Like I mentioned, it's fun to see them use these processes and these concepts, but make them their own. And I think that's what I like about this. This whole process and program is that you can make it reflect your personality. And so one of the things that we're talking about today. And we started yesterday is getting through the gatekeeper. I think we need to change that is getting to the gatekeeper, making sure that we understand that this is a strong relationship. It's not just a diversionary tack that we have to take. And we started off with a quote. Before you see the king or queen, you have to get across the moat. I love this quote. And I took it directly from the cause selling text. It's right there. So, super fun. And I'm going to ask you again, what does the role of the gatekeeper entail? And how has that been changing, I guess. Yeah, it's a really great question, especially how it's been changing, but a gatekeeper essentially is anyone that you need to connect with to be able to connect with a prospective donor that you are trying to cultivate. So that can be an executive assistant, a professional advisor that can be their friends, family, perhaps the spouse, but whoever it is who is protective of their time. And in a way is filtering and screening you before you can actually have access. This can also be, for example, professional advisors, maybe you don't have a specific prospect in mind, but there are many prospects that they could open doors. So really someone who can open doors to either a specific donor, or a pipeline of donors that you need to connect with and really sell your cause to so that they're doing the work for you. Well, today we are moving on to four more strategy techniques and I just want to recap yesterday what they were. So, number one is to, you know, building rapport, adjust your attitude, and go back and watch yesterday's show so you can know exactly what we're talking about here. Number two is honesty always the best policy, pardon me, and number three was to get some personal information. So Pearl, yesterday you shared those three strategy techniques with us and today you have four more so take us away. Number four that you're covering today is really about selling the cause. Now what does that mean. So you want to sell your cause to your prospective donor and what that means is not in what might come to your head is selling, it's cause selling it's bringing them into your mission, aligning with them, making them feel motivated to partner with you by giving a gift. So with the gatekeeper, the way that I interpret this is you don't want to see them as a pass through. They're not just a pass through to get to the donor to then start the cause selling cycle, you're doing that with the gatekeeper, you want to bring them into your mission, sell the cause to them so they can sell it to your prospective donor. I love this and you know what, this is not what I would have immediately thought of. I, when we started talking about this two day drill down, I was thinking what are the strategies to get around or through. But I love this idea is get them with you get them to join in on the concept it's going to be better for everyone. Yeah, exactly. It's such a fundamental concept, but we don't think this way. I've seen this from a foundation standpoint and I just wanted to add that in and so it's really we're advocating along the way so if we can get that that person that's maybe filtering those letters of intense or filtering those phone calls on board to really have that buy in for the cause be an advocate for us as it pushes forward to the lenses and the table of those that that make a decision and I see this happen quite a bit from that foundation standpoint, Pearl so I just, I wanted to add that negative information as well. Absolutely. And maybe this prospective donor is who you're trying to to really cultivate but think about this path this gatekeeper. You never know. They could also become a donor or a champion for your cause not just with your prospective donor but in the community. They could become a board member of volunteer. It's just it's important to remember more long term, your strategy, and never miss an opportunity to engage someone with your cause. I have to. One of the things that I forget who shared this with us probably one of your instructors had mentioned you know when you invite someone for a tour or to see your, you know, your theatrical performance also invite the as, as we're using the term the gatekeeper invite that administrative assistant invite that person you know who's really in filtering those calls invite them to come with the person you're inviting, and what a great way to really, you know, elevate that advocacy. Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's really important because you're right, Jared, we think of, you know, the end of the road, one person and that's just, it's, as my mother would say stinking thinking, you know, it's not. It's not a good idea. Right. I mean, just bottom line. It's not a good idea. I mean, we're trying to cultivate interest in our nonprofits. It doesn't mean that we're just directing towards one person. It should be any and all people that we connect with, you know, the next one number five in this is like a really open ended one, but it's be thoughtful. Yeah, okay. What does that mean because there are a lot of ways that that could go. There are a lot of ways and I think that's really important because being thoughtful is not a one size fits all with each person. It means to really get to know that person understand how to connect with them. For example, some people think them but be genuine don't go overboard some people get uncomfortable with that type of dynamic that right so you always want to be aware of who you're talking to, and be thoughtful of how to best use their time in a way that makes them feel seen heard and respected. Like any other human they cherish their time. So just be thoughtful about that. Yeah, I think that's true. And I think it almost dovetails to what you just said about if you look at the bigger picture in the longer run. It's not just get me through this person to the next. Yes. Yeah, it and I would think it would make it less frustrating to on your part. If you if you don't get through in the manner with which you're you're looking at. So I mean, it's kind of an interesting way to kind of look at this. But when you are out and about in the community. What's the reality of you seeing the engagement of gatekeepers is it increased is it falling I mean what's your sense of this structure. I think now that many of us are coming back to the ballrooms or getting back to those lunch meetings right those gatekeepers as we're referring to them here decision makers, whatnot. They are part of the audience. So they're either speaking part of the panelists, you know group, or they're simply there as an attendee, but I have to say I always use this opportunity and hopefully I'm thoughtful in this pearl, just to go up them go up to them and say hello, acknowledge that they're there thank them for all their support in the community. The other thing I like to do is to thank them for their support in another recent organization right so it's not all about yourself, but you see them in the news you see that there was just this press release that they supported another organization, and you're thoughtful enough to say hey, I see you. I thank you and I appreciate the work that you're doing to strengthen our collective community, because that is not with people in mind right that's really being thoughtful for the entire community. Absolutely. And that's the that goes back to yesterday when we talked about doing research on the gatekeepers. So if you're doing that research you can have that real honest conversation. Like you said it's about the greater community and it's about them. So what a beautiful way to connect with someone that doesn't feel opportunistic, or like they're just trying to just waiting to get to the real deal. So I think that's wonderful. It's a great, genuine organic opportunity to go up to them because yes I am seeing more and more of these people, you know, out and about and me and during the ballroom so it's just nice to say hey, thank you. And I think that, you know, before we move on, you know, people change jobs. They move and and we are seeing that now, like never before. So it's really important not to burn bridges and to be authentic in your way of dealing with people, because ultimately that person could lead you to something else and so I think that's like really important. Okay. And number six is really an interesting thing. And boy, some days we need this more than others, keeping a sense of humor. Yes, I expected that from you. Okay, tell us Pearl. This one just because those who work with me, you know, I love to have a sense of humor. I think that's a great way to connect with people. I would encourage anyone who's developing a connection with someone new to just be mindful of their sense of humor and how it relates how maybe the person sense of humor to try to the most important part of this is you want to connect you want to another human. You want to show who you are your personality and be memorable. Just be professional. That's the one thing be sure you know who you're talking to so that when you when they do remember you it's for a good reason maybe not. That's right. I love that and just as you talk about a sense of humor Pearl like I hear your laughter coming through and laugh. I think it just makes everything so much more joyful and positive in a conversation. I think we can all connect through humor, you know, and through comedy. So what a great opportunity, it's a little less mainstream and which is why I think Julia you're like I did not expect, you know humor to show up here like you know a comedy show, but I just love that I it's very different. It's unique and it's human. It's human. It is well and you know we're dealing with a lot of really tough things. Yeah, by the topics that we are dealing with. We're full of dress and sometimes oftentimes sadness. Yeah, sometimes it seems like we're pushing a boulder up the hill and so I like this. I think it's very humanistic and I think it's, yeah, I think it's really interesting and again, you said it perfectly. I did not expect this. This is not the one thing that I was like, yeah, that should be on the top seven. But I'm glad it is because I think it's really good. Coming around to number seven, I think this is really interesting and I wanted to spend a little bit more time on this. And that is be patient. What are you, what are you kind of trying to teach us on that piece of it pearl. This is not an overnight thing getting through the door will not happen overnight. I mean anyone in fundraising you know it takes time to build relationships it takes time to work up to the ask and it's the same with gatekeepers. You need to be patient. Remember that they have a full time, whatever it is they're doing, they have their own thing. So you want to build trust that takes time building a relationship. Don't miss key steps and building that relationship plant seeds and know that if you're doing all of that. The seeds right there will be that growth it just takes time and you can't if you if some if you expect it to happen overnight, you're going to reverse your progress so it's just sometimes we have I know you know you have your goal. Your boss is there asking how it's going. Any way that you can continue to use data to manage up and really set those expectations. This will take time but hopefully it will result in something wonderful for your organization. What I think the other thing we have to keep in mind is we're not the only organization they're talking to, right so we have literally you know we're in their queue, hopefully we're we're also top of mind for them but we have to be mindful that you know there are other very worthy causes in our community around our globe in fact that these funders are likely also considering. So I think you just need to keep that in mind and not see it as competition, but to have that patience and grace I'm going to throw that out Julia, you know that it's, it will take time and it's not as you said overnight. Yeah, we know from AFP that the average tenure is running about 16 to 18 months for development team which is just horrific and every time I say that I can't even believe I'm saying it. But think about the duration of these relationships there can be a lot of folks that are coming around through when the original person they spoke with is long gone. And so, how do you suggest we mitigate that or manage it so that we're not losing those opportunities. So many different things, one, remembering that while you are developing that relationship, you're representing your organization. So, you are cultivating a relationship between that person and your organization near the vehicle through which that's happening. Let's say you do leave any way that you can facilitate a transition that you basically someone else can pick up on that relationship, take notes, use your CRM make sure that whoever is coming in knows everything they need to know. And as you're building trust again ensure that you're building trust between them and your organization that you are making your organization stand out, setting it up for success so that when you do leave that relationships there it's not just cut off because you're leaving. There's so many different that could be 10 episodes alone but sometimes it's easy to get caught up in this is my relationship with my donor and I've been there I know that feeling you when you develop relationships those you don't just cut those off emotionally. But any way that you can always remember that you are representing the organization that you are really trying to bring funds in force that you can fulfill that cause just don't forget that. I'm so glad you mentioned that Pearl, and especially you know as Julia shared, you know, really the national standard 10 year, not really standard but the 10 year of, of a, you know, development person staying that is frightening that is a stroke so bring it to the public because you think, you know, just at the time that they're getting up to speed with the organization, they might be leaving, and what do we do with all of that time, and the energy and efforts that that's been poured into these partnerships. And I do hope that we can create a 10 part series, Pearl of what that looks like because there's so many, you know, techniques and strategies that I know we could share but it is so very important to come from that lens as you said, for the organization and not the person. Absolutely. Frankly, I think we need a 10 part series on how to change that idea that data point because it is it is very concerning. It's terrible and you know it's not changing I would say it's holding strong I mean this was a data point that's been measured and reported on well before the pandemic. So this is not a pandemic issue. I mean, Jared, you and I have talked offline about how hard it is to works, you know, and build relationships and then leave or have a contract be up, and then those deals come through, and you don't get any credit. You know, connectivity to it. It's tough. Celebrate. What was that. I said hopefully you still get to celebrate when you open, you know, the Chronicle of philanthropy, or you know something you're like, Wow, $5 million went to this organization and knowing as a professional, you had a part in that journey. Yeah. Yeah, I've been there and I remember former colleagues calling up and saying guess what this came through you should feel proud and I do think at the end of the day if you really truly care about your cause. This is very easy to say I recognize but if you care about your cause. It is a good feeling to know I was part of that. But it would be much nicer to be to have to be able to be there still and to be able to celebrate so anyway we can turn that number around. Yeah, let's, you know, I always talk about that big foam check and I also reference Ed McMahon when it comes to the sweepstakes right it's like, I feel like everyone thinks everyone board members executive staff we've hired a director development we've hired a chief development and tomorrow we're going to get a million dollars. And this be patient as the seventh of the strategy. I'm going to go out on the limb and say it might be the most important. I agree. I completely agree. I just, again, like you said leadership needs to buy into that too, because it can't just be on the fundraiser. If they don't have anyone advocating for them at the organization. You can be patient, but if your leadership isn't patient that doesn't work right now. You know, it's almost seems to me like a really good idea to reinforce these seven steps with your board or with your executive leadership team so that they can understand what's going on. You know, when you look across the board table chances are most of the people at that table. They have gatekeepers. And so I think it'd be really great for them to understand what these what these processes can be and what they mean because you're right that sense of oh we hired somebody tomorrow the money starts rolling. It sets everyone up for abysmal failure. You know, and I think personally that's why we blow through so many of our of our talents that it's just too hard to stay and have that pressure. Well, one thing I want to call out I was I was with a lunch with a board member several years ago, and he literally said to me Pearl and you're probably going to, you know, choke right now. Well, let me get you back to work and now you got to start get back to, you know, dialing for dollars and I was like, Oh my God, he doesn't get it like that's the impatience that you know, when you have that mentality that as professional fundraisers we pick up the phone and we, you know, we let our fingers go walking in the yellow pages which, as we all know is obsolete like this whole dialing for dollars is not the long road that is not the sustainable fundraising plan. And that's where we do to your point Julia teaching these seven key tips techniques to the, you know, to the board, but also really to the exact the entire team to understand your dialing for dollars we are making life long, hopefully transformational relationships. Absolutely and just again professionalizing the role of fundraising that doesn't do that that changes the power dynamic and it is so hard to hear that. Also not surprising. And let's just talk about hey board member instead of that how about you do some dialing for me. Do you have a prospect pipeline you can help me build. How about some gatekeepers you know can you help me get in the door it's It is and I think that's why this conversation has been so great. Pearl, we definitely needed the full two days because there's just so much. If you missed our for our beginning steps or you want to get your team on board for the this two day Part one is just as valuable and it really helps kind of paint a picture in a roadmap of how this journey can work successfully. Knowing that it's not a one stop thing and pearl you said something super magical test yesterday. You said when you think about this, this should be your structure for whomever you work with. This is how we build relationships. It's not while we're talking about gatekeepers and it's somewhat specific. This is an overall sensibility of how we should be, you know, shepherding our organizations. Absolutely the human to get the human connection. I mean, you never know what people can do to support your organization or how you can impact someone and inspire them so why not be human and connect with people on a human level. I think it's been great. Well, make sure you check that out because building rapport with gatekeepers the drill down part one and part two really great ways to help you encourage you refocus maybe help you understand why things aren't working as well as they could be. Pearl Hoagland director of fundraising academy at National University fund raising dash academy.org is their website. Check it out. They've got a lot of really cool things. And before we let you go we really want you to share with us Pearl about your new online learning portal because this is very revolutionary. Yes, I love our portal and I'll just share it's, you can see at the bottom online dot fundraising dash academy dot org, please check it out. It is a resource for you that is at no cost to you. You create a free registration and you have access to our entire on demand library, whether you want to dive into an hour and a half webinar and gain CFRE education credits or you just need you're about to go into a meeting with a donor, and you need some ideas on questions to ask and maybe there's, there's some informational gaps you need to fill. We have question templates prospect qualification worksheets anything you need whether it's quick at your fingertips or more in depth learning. And it's all free basically to enhance your fundraising practice and help you feel more equipped and empowered to be successful. So you mentioned yesterday that you yourself go to this portal almost daily. Now I want to, I want to ask the world created for is it is it staff as a volunteers is it board like who's the audience for the portal. Yes, yes, and yes, this is for seasoned staff season fundraisers who have been in the practice for years and maybe you need a refresher maybe you want to pivot and try a different approach. We're here for you if you're a newer fundraiser and you don't have a lot of access to professional development at least that's affordable. We're here for you. Board members we have so many board members come through our virtual and in person doors for trainings volunteers, anyone that is interested in helping raise money for an organization. We've got your back. I love it and then beyond this you have so many other services you have the cohorts. I'm sure those are starting up in 2023. That's an amazing other offering that fundraising Academy provides, and we were talking to about the need for a board member cohort so stay tuned. Yes, definitely lots to come. It's really exciting. You know, I think the thing that's been fun to see your work and your leadership, how it's morphed and changed to all these changes that have kind of been pushed down on us via COVID and and the various pandemics that we've really faced in the last three years. And to me that speaks volumes because it means that your your project is sound and your approach is the cost selling cycle is great, but you understand that we're doing things a little differently. And so it seems to me like this isn't just, you know, read the textbook as I have all marks. I mean it still works right even though you know there's there's some nuances and so Jared and I talk about this all the time we would have raised a lot more money for our communities. If we had started off with this training from the get go because we figured out a lot of this on a long way. Don't you think Jared it's like, you know, a lot of battle scars. Yeah, coming out of meetings and saying what just happened. They didn't get it. But anyway, well hey, I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared ransom. I like to call her my nonprofit nerd, but she's also your nonprofit nerd. And so thank you very much, Jared to be on this amazing journey with us. Again, we want to thank all of our sponsors who allow us to be here day in and day out. We're moving towards our 700th episode. Our executive producer just told us or told me I think yesterday that we're going to be up to almost a million views alone this year. Look at Earl's mouth. She's like, that's amazing. Yeah. And I was like, no, wait, what? And so I mean, there are a lot of really cool things that these sponsors have allowed us to grow into. Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy, your part time controller. Be generous fundraising Academy at National University staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and a nonprofit nerd. Again, these are the folks that really have joined in with us day in and day out. Wow. Okay, I have a lot of things to think about when I work with gatekeepers. And I really appreciate this two day drill down. Pearl, amazing. Thanks for having me. I'll miss you tomorrow. Well, and our frayas are always dedicated. Thanks to fundraising Academy is the underwriter for each and every Friday or as I like to refer to them frayas. So thank you for that. It's an amazing thing. Hey, everybody as we end every episode, we like to remind ourselves, our viewers, our listeners, our guests to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow.