 Sean, you're not prioritizing your family right now. Instead of me getting upset, because in my head, I'm thinking, I just work for the ear and everything I do is for this family. You know what I'm saying? I just work to if I'm going to get my kids and go to these meetings, all this other stuff. What I do is, and when I say in being in terms of sacrificial lamb, she's coming for me. I'm like, you know what? I'll be willing to be the sacrifice. You know what? You're right. Listen, it's the message right here. Black boy, tell me how you really feel. Because I just want to build with you. Black girl, tell me how you really feel. I want to keep it real with you. I want to live better, eat better. I want to love better, sleep better. Yeah, I want to feel so aligned. Man, how would you describe the process that you went through to vet your former wife and how is it different from the process you went through to vet your current wife? My first wife, I don't think there was too much of a vetting process. We did get counseling. We did get some counseling from the church and stuff like that from the pastor. And to me, because I trusted my pastor, I felt like that was that stamp of approval. We were already talking, but getting that counseling, I was like, OK, I think we'll be good with my ex-wife and then I felt like there was a little pressure on my behalf of, like I said, you need a wife kind of thing and you're doing ministry and you need a woman that's by your side and all the other good stuff. And she fit the church woman mode. Now, with my wife who I'm married to, now with her, she was fun. She was a friend. My ex-wife, I think when we were wrong, when my ex-wife was, we weren't friends. We weren't best friends. My wife now, we're best friends. So if I do something that causes any pain to her or frustrates her, I look at her as like, I don't want to hurt my friend. So that makes a difference in having a friend. So you mentioned the church. You mentioned the church being part of the reason why you idealize marriage and in some way jumped into it prematurely or overlooked some compatibility differences. Part of what I think happens, especially with good men who come from the church, is they have these Puritan expectations that they project on women. And it kind of cripples their ability to vet women, number one. But number two, I think it also leads to the woman on her side feeling trapped in a way. And that's where you get stuff like nice guys finish last because sometimes she doesn't feel like she can be herself with the nice guy. So what is your take on the whole nice guys finish last? How do you think it relates to the church? Where do you think there's a disconnect? I think the disconnect is, well, I think the church is starting to do a better job as far as trying to relate to just everyday people now. I think the church, because they realize that I've lost an audience, especially with social media and everybody's woke and you can do your own Bible study. You can be your own theologian. So I think the church is realizing I need to really be honest about sex, about women, all those other things. So I think in the era that I grew up in in church, you're talking about maybe early 2000. So I think with the good guys finish last thing, I think that was probably a huge thing in the early 2000s because you look at a guy like a good church guy. And it's like, oh, ladies say, I want a man who prays for me. Like you got the meme where that man and a woman is in the church and he's crying with his hands up and she's like falling out or whatever. I think that's the way people look at, ideally, a good church man. Like I'm just always going to be praising the Lord and I'll never turn you down for anything. I'm going to make sure that I'm just a perfect man for you. But then you realize that you've got to do everyday life outside of the church. You realize that we're going to have disagreements. We're going to have fallouts. And does that negate me being a good guy now? Because we're not getting along. So I think the image that we have of a good guy is just good church man, yes man. I'm going to do whatever is required of me opposed to, no, this is real life. And there's going to be some issues and things where we fall out and we don't see eye to eye. And am I strong enough to be OK with saying no to you and still being able to walk as a man of God, you know what I'm saying, and still make that work? So I think that's where the good guys, and I could be wrong as far as the way women see it. But I know for me, because I'm feeling that good God category. And the minute you have those disagreements, women look at you weird. So I think that being able to walk in your truth, as they would say, and still be a good guy regardless of turning her down for whatever and saying no and disagreeing, I think that's important for you to still be good with who you are as a man. Absolutely. So I want to preface this question with this statement. And I think you would be perfect to speak to it. The dating landscape that we have to navigate now in the 21st century is very different from what our parents, their parents had to navigate. Not only do you have access to every bad woman in your city, you've got access to all the baddies all over the world. That travel is more accessible. You have social media, you have dating apps. And you also have the whole FOMO fear of missing out. Everybody's seeing the highlight tapes of everybody else. So it's like, I don't want to lock myself down because I might be missing out on this plethora of opportunities. So going back to sex is also easier to come by. The whole Laurie Harvey situation she was talking about, at 26, I'm not ready. So also with medicine and with female empowerment, the sense of urgency that used to lead some women and some men into monogamy is no longer as powerful. So the question is, can our traditional paradigm of marriage and companionship still work today? It can. I believe it can. I think it just depends on your value and your priorities. I was talking the other day about having the strength to say, the self-discipline to say no as a man. I mean, I got Instagram too. I see baddies. I see everywhere, but I'm not trying to lose what I got at home for some baddie, you know what I'm saying? I've been around for a while. So are you willing to sacrifice the woman you have at home for one night of pleasure with a baddie? Because no shade to the baddie, but you don't know all the issues that she got going on. You don't know what's going on behind the screen. All you know is that she's cold. That's all you know. But as Chris Rock was saying, can new pussy cook? You know what I'm saying? That whole thing. So you have to think about that. Are you willing to just sacrifice everything for one night? Or are you going to have the self-discipline to be like, she cold, but I got to keep it moving? So I think it depends on your value system. And we live in an instant society now. I just got to have it. So a lot of people don't believe in delayed gratification. Well, let me ask you that. Like, what would you say about young brothers like myself saying, until, shout out to coming to America, until I've sold my Royal Oats properly, until I've built up a certain status. I've got my money together and things like that. Because to cultivate a relationship takes time, and it takes intentionality. And if you out here trying to get it, it's easy for a woman to feel deprioritized. So what would you say to the younger man about when is the right time for them to put their mission to the side and go get you a woman and go focus on her versus the freedom that we enjoy as men and being able to move around and be in Thailand, in this place, in that place, and you know what I mean? Yeah. Again, you got to have that discipline. I think that as a young man, I always tell people to choose purpose over panties, you know what I'm saying? Choose your purpose over panties because you can be locked in and doing what you need to do as a man and not get distracted by women. And I don't get me wrong, I get it. As a man, I love women, too. I get it. But if there's anything I've learned over time, because when you get married, there's going to be times when she ain't in the mood for sex. What you going to do then? It's that time of the month. What you going to do then? Y'all fell out. She ain't trying to get it in. Just different things. She have a baby, right? All those different things, if you don't get the self-discipline ahead of time before you end up settling down, it's going to be issues. And that's why some guys, I think even you referenced one time, you said guys like quantity or quality, you know what I'm saying? Which I totally agree because that's why guys do what they do for the most part, but that makes commitment hard. So you used to sleep in the round, sleep in the round, knocking all the women up, but not knocking them up. But you getting it in, and then all of a sudden, you just expect to stop everything and get married. Because now all of a sudden, you met the woman of your dreams. And you think, oh, that's just going to go away overnight. You used to getting it in with as many women as possible. So you're going to get frustrated the first time she tell you no. And then is that one woman actually enough for you? I think that's the problem with a lot of men that they might go out or whatever. They just used to sleeping around. What's the most difficult part about marriage? What slash, what do you miss the most about being single? The freedom. Yeah, the freedom. The freedom, check this out. Not the freedom of women. The freedom of purpose. Because for me, and I don't know if you know, like, OK, I got I have four kids total. But three of them is with me. I have a 19-year-old daughter. She's in the state. She's doing her own thing. But two of my boys have autism. Two of my little boys. So I have to spend time to make sure that they're good, go to meetings, all these different things. So if I'm trying to get out content, I got to make sure the home front is good. And then I can do that. So I miss that sometimes. Even going through my divorce at the time, I was able to chase my purpose. You know what I'm saying? I was able to record and do as much as I wanted to, because I didn't have a woman in my life. So my biggest thing is, man, that's probably what I miss the most about being single. What, after being married to your current wife, and even to your ex-wife as well, have you learned any, like, paradoxical truths about women? Like, we think women are like this, but they really are like this. Yeah. I learned with women, you just got to be a good listener. Man, if you can listen, put the phone down. If you give her that attention, that quality time, and you got to understand what her love language is, because every woman is different. Because I think one of the issues with men is, you know, even just in the sexual rules. Yeah, like even in a sexual sense, if we have a sex with a woman, we think we can have sex with different women the same way that we had sex with the previous woman. But that's not her. So you trying to do your moves, she like, that ain't working, you know what I'm saying? So you got to really take the time to give this woman a clean slate and say, this is what she like. I'm learning, this is what she's really into. My wife now, she love active service. She's like, can you go get the boys from daycare after you finish working 12 hours? Can you help me clean this kitchen? But I've learned it over time. Like, I fold clothes, I wash dishes, man, whatever needs to be done. Because if I'm speaking that love language, she feels like she's being heard. She's feel like I'm paying her the attention that she deserves. Absolutely, absolutely. One of the questions that I get from a lot of women, particularly with regards to the series is conflict resolution. How would you say from your perspective has been the most effective way to resolve conflict? Whether in this marriage, the other marriage, or even in your friendships with women or family members? Man, conflict resolution is so slept on. What works for me is I'm more of a, I've learned you have to be more of a sacrificial lamb. You have to understand how they want to be loved. So for example, my wife and I, we get into it. We fall out. She's coming for my neck. She's like, because that's what she's used to. But for me, I'm more of a laid back kind of person. So if she's saying what she needs to say to me, I'm not going to combat that. I'm not going to be defensive. So say, Sean, you're not prioritizing your family right now, instead of me getting upset. Because in my head, I'm thinking, I just work for the ear. Everything I do is for this family. You know what I'm saying? I just work to if I'm going to my kids or go to these meetings, all this other stuff. What I do is, and when I say I'm being in terms of sacrificial lamb, she's coming for me. I'm like, you know what? I'll be willing to be the sacrifice. You know what? You're right. What can I do to make this better? Let her talk. By doing that, you disarm, because she's coming with the M16. She's cocking them. She can't wait to have this conversation with you, because she understand the dance that y'all have. She understands that if I say this, he's going to say that. So you create this dance of miscommunication, because you know how she's going to respond. She know how you're going to respond. But once you break that dance and do something different, it unarms her. Now all of a sudden, she's looking at you like, I got to dance. I got to get with your rhythm now. So if I'm willing to be sacrificial, now when my wife and I have conversations, guess what? I've mirrored that to her. Now she sees what it looks like. So when I'm ready to chew her head off, she's looking at me like, you know what, baby? Right. What can we do to fix this? Unarming the situation. Because with a relationship, you can't firefight with fire. You're going to burn the whole relationship. Somebody got to be the sacrificial lamb. Somebody has to be emotionally mature. There's a book by David Dieter. What's it called? Way of the Superior Man. Way of the Superior Man. Have you read it? I read it. What you're describing is pretty much that, right? Like he talks about how a good woman is going to challenge you and your ability to navigate that inevitable challenge from the female dictates your level of superiority as a man. I have qualms with it a little bit. OK. Because there are some women who get off on the... You know what I'm saying? So my question is, for the brothers who might be listening and saying, why should we allow women to just stir up bullshit for the sake of stirring up bullshit? Why should we allow women to disrupt our peace? Why should we allow women to say we're not doing enough even though we are doing 12 hours in this distance? So how would you respond to those men who are saying, you know what, if that's what marriages or companionship is, I don't even want it. Or we now see the passport bro saying, well, this foreign woman, the stuff I'm doing for her is extraordinary. So how would you respond to that? Man, everybody got issues. Nobody, man, we just beautifully broken. Everybody got issues. Nobody is free from it. So I think a lot of it comes down to knowing the woman's emotional maturity. Like we talked about before. And sometimes we can't see past that because she got a small waist, you know what I'm saying? And I'm thighs banging. And she got them heels on. So the click of the heel just messed up everything in your head and what you thought. What, you know what I'm saying? So you can't even get past the conversation. She's giving you details and how she is as a woman. She's telling you, again, it boils down to communication. You got to understand what she's telling you because a lot of times as guys, we can tell if she's full of drama or not. For my wife and I, man, she's not on that, you know what I'm saying? Because she see how I roll. To me, as a man, I feel like we're leaders. So I'm gonna start with the man first. So I can't hold a woman. She wouldn't be accountable, yes, okay? But as a man, change start with us. I always tell people, change start with me. If my wife is a mess, it's because I'm a mess. You know what I'm saying? If I'm a leader, I'm gonna inspire her. I can't change her, but I can't inspire her. And if she's an emotionally mature woman, she's gonna end up, because all women, they wanna be loved. And if you give her that environment, like she'll change, but it starts with you first. There's another book I referenced by James Sexton. It's called, If You're In My Office, It's Already Too Late. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh my God. So with that being said, I think it ties perfectly into your brand, Scary to Remarry, right? Because James Sexton is a 20 year divorce attorney. I think like lead attorney is also like 20 year divorce attorney. And as men, especially nowadays, we're starting to share notes about how scary it is to marry and remarry. So what is your perspective? And then segue that into, why did you call your brand Scary to Remarry? What's your perspective on that? Yeah, from a personal perspective, I remember going through my divorce in my apartment by myself after 15 years crying in the shower. I wasn't in a fetal position. I didn't have my knees on my elbow. I didn't do that, but I was in the shower crying and I'm just thinking, man, I didn't give up on love. I want to do this again. My heart is still open. And I was crying because of, it felt like a death of starting over again and having to find myself. I had to deal with my personal issues. So behind a brand Scary to Remarry is once you get out there, you're thinking, okay, I know what marriage is like, but now I have to give this person a clean slate whoever I'm dealing with now. And am I willing to put my best foot forward? Because I believe that if you're gonna go into a relationship, go into a wholeheartedly. If you're not going into a wholeheartedly, then you didn't get a relationship, it's chance. So you worry, like, do I really got what it takes to do this again? Am I emotionally healthy enough? Am I spiritually healthy enough? Financially healthy enough? Am I mentally, all these different things you're asking yourself, because now you're about to embark on a new journey. And if you're secure enough to say, I'm willing to put my heart back out there again, that's what Scary to Remarry is all about. It's facing your fears and being honest that I'm willing to take this journey again. Hopefully this time more mature than the last time. How would you encourage men to think about, for instance, the 50% divorce rate, the 80% rate of it being filed by women, the family court system, alimony, child support, in the face of these potential threats and challenges, how would you encourage or how would you help men form the proper perspective on these things? It's real. I paid child support and alimony over a year, so I get it. And that's just like life. That's like any chance we take. I mean, you get in your car, you taking the chance. Marriage, you taking the chance. I caught a flight to get out here. I took a chance. So just like any other chance we take, marriage is the same thing. You know what I'm saying? And then are you gonna be committed to see this thing through? I had a friend of mine, she told me, she said, Sean, you went through a divorce. She said, just do the right thing. She said, because if you do the right thing, it's gonna pay off for you later. I honestly believe, I think I doubled up on my child support payments one time. Like I wouldn't plan. I think one of the reasons I have the wife I have now is because I followed suit. I went through a divorce. Was I pissed? Yeah, but I did it. I paid it. And I believe that gave me more peace at the end of the day. So if you have to do that, do it. Absolutely, man. That's a wrap. Man, just like that. That's a wrap. That's crazy.