 All this podcast was roundtable round 92. And soon as I get to the website, I'll tell you what I called it. The state of podcast consumption. 2017. So I mixed up a couple of things. They're the state of podcasting, which we usually see at one of the annual podcast conferences by some friends of ours. Blueberry, Libsons, Breaker guys, and the, uh, podcast consumption, what do they call the podcast consumer 2017 from Edison, which they've been doing forever now, uh, at least some form of research on the podcast space for a long time. And I believe. Well, like 2006 or something. So I mixed up those two things. We are going to talk about really what, about these numbers that just recently came out and there's a little bit different round, but we have a new round table or so we're golden and a good one who's done his own 45 minutes on this very topic. So you'll, you'll want to check that out as well. If you're in this topic, we'll see. But, uh, yeah, let's go right to the new round table. Matthew, welcome to your first round table. Thank you. Thank you. Very excited to be here and excited to talk about these numbers again with hopefully a little bit of a clearer head and a little bit less, uh, not anger, but gusto. We were very, we were very excited after watching the presentation and trying to react to it and live, you know, live. Perfect. Well, we're live on a Monday, which is very different. I'm mailing it in like hat and a free t-shirt. And so if you're watching the video podcast round table.com slash live, you should be, or the YouTube channel or just go check it out. You can see what everyone looks like. And then when you meet us in person, just come up and say hi, cause that's coming up. We have conferences coming up. That'll be a good time. When you spot Mr. Dave Jackson, make sure you say hi Dave. Welcome back. Yeah. Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting, glad to be here. This should be fun to, uh, hash these numbers just a little deeper. Yeah, Matthew, I forgot to ask, what is your podcast? Oh, I've got a few. So I run the pod to pod podcast, the service of pod to pod.com. And I do the podcast bulletin, which is part of my production company, the podcast consultant.com. Nice. Yeah, pod to pod. I believe the round table's been featured there several times and it might be on like a calendar there, but I'm screwing it up by being here on a Monday. So, you know, we want to keep you, keep you, keep you under toes, pod to pod. We appreciate it. But yeah, if you know, if you're not subscribed to pod to pod, the email newsletter, you have to go because they just bring together all the podcasting news that you want. And it shows up in your email. So I think I'm on like maybe three email lists. And that's definitely one of them. So you guys and gals should get over there and do that as well. Co-host Daniel J. Lewis, welcome back. Thank you, Ray. I'm always happy to be on a round table with us and discussing podcasting. And this is certainly, um, I'm going to have some opinions, but I want to say upfront, Tom Webster, I deeply respect you and your great work that you do with Edison research. So the ripping apart that we might do or that I might do specifically is not at you. It's only at your baby. But, uh, Tom's used to that, right? I mean, he puts himself out there for feedback. He goes on shows and talks about it. And, and, you know, even new media show, I think it was on, they talk about it and they, they'll give him a hard time as well. So Tom is a great support and he's confident in his number. So I don't think he has to worry about it. So that leaves us free to rip away, I say in tear apart. It makes it better. It makes these numbers better when you put it in different perspectives, right? From podcast producers, podcast researchers, podcast listeners. So that's what we're doing. We are in the chair of the producer today. We're all sitting behind some kind of beautiful microphone. So we're going to take our podcast pitchforks. I think the other side of my microphone is pointy. I could just stab it right there and stab holes into the research. You know, actually, I just realized here on this panel, we are representing the four most popular, most recommended podcasting microphones. Ray on the high LPR 40, Dave on the ATR 2100 USB, Matthew on the Electrovoice RE 20, and I'm on the Electrovoice RE 320. The only thing we're missing is a sure SM7B. Rob Greenley couldn't be here tonight. SM7B. Right. We'll work on something to aim for. That's like the, the round table jackpot. I feel like our little squares should spin around and it lands on a microphone. We got them all quads. All right. So the podcast consumer 2017. And now is this, we've heard of, what do we have? We have the podcast consumer. We have share of year and we have just the Edison. The infinite dial. Infinite dial. So are these, are the podcast numbers in all of these? There is podcast numbers in all of them. Are they different? Is there different stuff here before we dive in just generally? Is there different stuff? It's a different look at the same data. That's what it is. So even in the webinar, when Tom presented all of this, he pointed out that all of this is from the infinite dial study. This is taking a deeper look into specifically the podcast consumer and all of those that identify as podcast consumers and what type of people they are. Matthew, you said you seem like you wanted to get in there. I was basically going to say the same thing. I know infinite dial includes a lot of the same slides that we'll see at the beginning and then this goes a little bit deeper as you go further into the presentation, breaks down a little bit more of the attitude and the, you know, the ways that podcast consumers really take in this content. Yeah. And if we consumed this last year, if we looked at it and I believe, I don't know, we may have covered it in some capacity here on the round table, but is there much different here before we dig in? Not that I can tell. There is a lot of information about the podcast consumer, that is after all the study, but when it comes to information about the actual consumer, like their education level, employment, that kind of stuff, there wasn't any comparison with previous years. Right. And so if you want to actually, you can go to the Edison research site. They only have, they don't have the presentation that we can find. They have the slide deck or the PowerPoint. You can look at hashtag pod con 17. I think they live tweeted the whole thing. So, and there's a lot of good responses there, but just digging into this, I'll say just up front, if you're not familiar with this, it says the methodology, January, February of 2017, Edison research conducted a national telephone survey of 2000 people age 12 or older using random digit dialing techniques. Is it, is it bad that they use the telephone? Is that a good method to reach podcast consumers? That's a great question because I, I think it means smartphones or do we mean like attached to the wall? Only Dave has one telephone. Yeah, so I mean, but the other thing is, what was the last time you actually called someone and they answered the phone? Never. I'm not answering any phone. No, you have to text me first. And then maybe kind of thing. It's, I mean, I'm weird. I won't answer my phone, but most, I know a lot of people, they don't use the phone. They text everything. So, yeah. So the interviews were 51% landline. There we go. It's right in front of my face. Come on, Ray, 49% cell phone. So it's split. So at least if you've got a smartphone, you may be talking to someone who has podcast on their phone. So it's half and half. So maybe, I guess that's pretty good. We want to reach those people who, I guess, aren't listening to podcasts. Mind out what's going on. So off the survey was in English and Spanish, which is interesting. I think Latin America is a good, there's a really emerging podcast market down there over there. Depends on where you're. Data wade to national 12 plus population figures over my head. And what they did is that they smoothed out their demographics so it matches the national population. Thank you. Thank you, Daniel. I did, they did at one time, I think on a recent episode, say Daniel is the technical one. So this is why you have co-hosts. People, this is how this works. This makes for better quality content. And the series has been covering wide range of digital media topics since 1998, obviously not podcasting till probably 06 or so. So the first slide up, um, I don't know, are you guys following along on these slides? Daniel, are you following along? Yeah. And you can get these if you, if you just search Google for the podcast consumer, you'll see these different years of study. So I actually have 2016's also up in case there's something that we want to compare back to 2016. If we don't have that on the same slide. Gotcha. Cool. Do you want to hit on this first one? Awareness of the term podcasting. Okay. This is my first pet peeve. Right off the bat. See, this is good. We're already at it. The word podcasting ing at the end is the wrong word to be asking people about. I think, uh, because now looking back at 2005, when Steve Jobs in a keynote announced that podcast would be coming to iTunes, I recently included a snippet of that, uh, keynote in my special 10 year anniversary episode. And I didn't realize until rewatching it that even Steve Jobs said podcasting is funny. I watched it last night too, because of part of that three a.m. thing I was doing, I was watching some of that stuff. Did you, did you include the part where Adam Curry swears that was a great moment. No, it hasn't got part out. Awesome. But, um, so my pet peeve here is the word podcast is better to ask people, are you familiar with the podcast? Because the term podcasting is really about the art, the technique, the process of creating a podcast. So like if you're looking at a forum and you see a section that's called podcasts and you see a section that's called podcasting and you want to chat about a podcast or share news about a podcast, then it goes in the podcasts section. If you want to talk about the technology, if you have a question about podcasting, if you're a podcaster, you need help from other podcasters, then that conversation should go in the podcasting category. So thus my pet peeve is that they ask people, what's your awareness of the term podcasting? That's like asking people, what's your awareness of the term book writing? Instead of just asking what's your familiar, familiarity with books. So outside the semantics of it all, do you think that this affected, do you think this affects numbers or maybe slightly or? It may, slightly. I know that, yeah, I'm fussing over this. It's just a personal pet peeve, right? I get what you're saying and it should be, why get that? I mean, if you went up to somebody said, are you familiar with radio, they might say, oh, yeah, but if you say, are you familiar with broadcasting, they might go, do you mean like TV stuff? Or, you know, so it's a good point. Yeah. Well, but those are two different words, radio and broadcasting, podcast and podcasting. I would think that the audience would be able to, you know, differentiate or at least some podcasting is the art of creating podcasts. That being said, I mean, the fact is it's it's going up. So according to this, 168 million people who are aware of it and we saw two big jumps from 2015 to 16 and again, 16 to 17. And I mean, that coincides obviously with the probably with the national attention that more shows have been getting, you know, the pop culture discussions of cereal and Estown and Marin and, you know, Hardwick and everything that NPR is doing. So I mean, at the very least, regardless of whether it's podcast or podcasting, we've all got to be encouraged. Yeah. And I think that at some level, there's some type of inertia that it will take over at some point. We hit a point that there's not going to be this explosive growth, right? Podcasting is known for being slow and steady growth. And we've seen that in this chart here. But at some point, you have so many shows, you have so many people listening that maybe some of this upward tick is also a process, a product of inertia. Like I said, more sort of inventory available, more people talking about it. I mean, we don't really know. You know, a lot of people say, oh, it was cereal. But, you know, I think that they have said in the past that cereal didn't actually, you know, while it was wildly popular and got a lot of media attention, it didn't necessarily bring a ton of people new people to podcasting. Yeah. Cereal was released at the end of 2014 and their studies are done at the beginning of each year. So from in 2015, there was a one percent bump up from 48 to 49 percent from 2014 to 2015. It was 2015 to 2016 that really saw the big bump. And that is after cereal's heyday. So you can't say that cereal was responsible for the boom in podcasting. There wasn't a boom. Yes, these last couple of years we've seen the biggest growth, but I think it's all of the attention like you were saying. So the number estimated one hundred and sixty eight million. That's Americans. Yes. Yeah. This is all everything about this is based on American numbers. So that's a lot of people, right? They're aware of the term podcasting. They might have no clue what podcast means, but they're aware of the term podcasting. I'd be surprised to see how many of those actually know how to use it, because even I run into people today were like, you know, I know what that is. I just I don't know how to do it, which is frustrating. But at least they're they're more curious. Well, we have the next slide, which is ever listened to a podcast, right? And we got 40 percent up from 36. And this is that same sort of stair step growth that we've seen going up four percent. A nice little jump. All those three percent the year before that, three percent before year that, three percent for year for that. So steady growth. But one hundred and twelve million people ever listened. So that's a lot of people who listened. It doesn't mean it's a lot of the one hundred and twelve million stick around every month, which we'll find out, right? The quick math on that is that is two thirds of people who are familiar with podcasts have actually ever listened to podcasts. Cool. And in monthly podcasting, monthly, OK, got me monthly podcasting listening, monthly podcast listening, twenty four percent, sixty seven million of that hundred and twelve million. Is that what's going on there? Yeah. And I mean, do we care about monthly? Fortunately, drill down further than that. Like, well, to me, that it just bothers me that the slide before we were up to forty percent have have tried one and we like twenty four percent that are sticking around for at least one a month. That was worse, Dave. Yeah, I know. That's like once a month. Are you really a podcast listener if you listen once a month? What's going on there? Well, they say not listened once a month. It's have listened within the last month. In the last month, even then, like, I guess, even if you follow this show, you're going to get two a month. Well, I think some folks aren't sure if what they listen to was a podcast. You know, there's that audible verse podcast debate. There's the if somebody's watching this on YouTube, is that technically still a podcast, you know, consumer at that moment? And then also, I mean, more abstractly thinking, I think there's still a lot of technical barrier to enter. I think people are frustrated by the podcasting process. You know, it's sure it's easy. It's on your phone. You go subscribe at play. But I know a lot of people, they you even show them how to do it and they find it still tricky to get into it. So they just revert back to their old media consumption ways, radio, satellite, CD, not CD, but you know what I mean? Yeah, I had a a neighbor who is I think he said he was 72 and he finally today was walking around and I had my little podcast shirt on. He goes, all right, I have to ask. And I'm like, what? And he's like, the heck is a podcast? I said, oh, it's like a little internet radio show. So do you have a smartphone? No, he has a flip phone, you know, but I asked him, I go, what's your he was into model airplanes. I'm like, all right, so I type in model airplanes into iTunes or the podcast app and hit search. I'm going, there you go. And I hit play. He's like, that's pretty cool. Not cool enough for me to buy a smartphone, but OK, I don't know what it is now. But that was kind of interesting that I hadn't done that a while where you have somebody who's like, OK, what is it? I got it. Yeah, I think I think you said somebody said before about momentum, I think, is an issue with podcasting. Those folks who are into it, stay into it. Those who have not quite captured it, it's not top of mind to, you know, to work through all those steps to actually be a consistent listener. Well, yeah, I mean, that's probably your first podcast so critical what you get in front of first, right? I mean, if you get in front of something bad because someone recommends it, or you just happen to try it. Or I mean, not necessarily even bad, it just doesn't. It's not the content for you. Not necessarily willing to come back unless maybe someone's like, no, you really have to check out the show. You know, I don't know. So for me, it's from my own perspective, it's impossible to tell because when I heard it, I was amazed by the technology, not the content. So that kept me looking for other stuff. I don't know. You guys did the first show you hear. Was that that? See, I think that mostly what hooked you guys is sort of the same stuff. Something wasn't the content. We're a different breed. Early day podcasters. Yeah, I mean, for me, I just heard the voice of Adam Curry come out of my speakers. And I'm like, I know that guy. I remember him and I was sucked in. But I mean, I guess not much we can do about that. I mean, it's I guess make better content. But it'd be kind of like going to a restaurant and getting a really crappy meal and having a friend of yours going, seriously, you got to go back though. They're really good. And you're like, no, no, I've been there. I've tried it. And now you got to go, no, no, you got to try the whatever. Yeah, for me, it was the content. I was listening to radio during a commute. And then I discovered podcasts. On the radio, it was politics, finances, relationships and local issues, mostly stuff I didn't care about. So finding a podcast like a podcast completely about tech news that was by people who actually knew what they were talking about. That amazed me. And I loved it. And other things, grammar and and other aspects of technology and design. So I was hooked in by the content and the method, the personality behind the content. And I mean, how to choose a watermelon. I mean, come on, that's like instant hit that you were just drawn into. Weird. I was I was producing content long before I became a real podcast consumer. Even when I was producing them, I would still get in my car and not listen because my technology hadn't caught up with my vehicle. And so it took me a while to really get into it and to try it out. But right. Once I found the first show that I liked, then, yeah, I wanted to find out and find more content. I jumped away for a sec. Did we get past monthly podcast listening? Next slide is gender, which has this changed much? Daniel, you said you have no, it hasn't changed since last year. 56 percent men, 44 percent women. And I mean, it makes me wonder just because we've grown. So we've obviously grown at equal amounts, right? Like it's like we're one we're chasing the other and it's just the same distance between each other. So there's more men and women here. It's just the ratio seems to be about the same. But it feels, I mean, it feels like more women led podcasts these days. So this is different. This is the consumer versus the podcast. Or do you think I wonder what the numbers are for podcast creators? I would suspect that if you were charting that there would be more growth in the women podcasters in the last few years. It just seems that way. But I mean, I'm coming from a biased perspective. I'd like to believe that is true. And we certainly have seen a lot of attention paid to getting more women to become podcasters and certainly the rise of very talented, very strong women podcasters. But at the same time, when so much new content is being created and so much that we're not talking about, I have a feeling that proportion probably isn't changing all that much. We're just not talking about as many of the new men podcasters out there as often. And it is a bit of a stereotypical thing. Technically, it's guys who gravitate toward the coolest technological things first. I know that's a stereotype. It's true. No, the technologies we gravitate toward are cool. I didn't say we're cool. And so that's not to say it's like an intelligence level thing or anything like that. It's like what kind of people are interested in sports cars. Well, typically it's the guys who are more interested in sports cars than the ladies. I would argue that's that's society driven. I would argue that's marketing and how we're brought up. And there's all kinds of stuff that goes into that. Sociologically speaking, that makes you think it's in your DNA that you're drawn to something like an action figure. But I bet you it's social. So there are we don't want to go down that rattle. But stuff to think about there. Monthly podcast listening. Wait, we did this. What? What is this? This is broken down. We're on slide seven, by the way, if you're following along at home. This is broken down through the past years, looking at the percentage of genders who say they have listened to a podcast within the last month. So this year, 2017, it's this is not of anyone who ever listened to a podcast. It's within the last month, 27 percent male, 21 percent female. The ratio is about the same. Looking at these, like you see the stair step method, it's kind of about the same. We're just as many new men are listening to podcasts as new women are, it seems. Cool. And then we get into age. Do we have this is also something that's remained fairly consistent, hasn't it? I believe so. I'm looking for that slide in the prior presentation. So this is month. This is again, monthly podcast, podcast consumers, 12 plus, and you've got the bulk going 18 to 34. I mean, it's a big range. Like there is a dramatically different person in the 18 to 24 year old to the 25 to 35 year old. Right. OK, this this has changed. Which actually the next slide, slide nine shows the change. So I don't have to keep flipping back and forth. The biggest jump being in the age 25 to 54 demographic that jumped from 24 percent to 31 percent. A big it's the biggest jump when you look at this chart, the biggest jump of anything besides the very first. Those people who grew up when podcasting began were younger, right? They were in that 12 to 24. That's like this in a podcast. Now podcasting is coming of age. And so are they shifting? I mean, I don't know how much I would have listened to a podcast pre 21 years old or so. I mean, I don't know. Like I think to what you're saying is is a good point. You're getting older, your tastes are a little bit more mature, but I think podcasting is also caught up with those more mature tastes. So, you know, people aren't just looking for very niche or for lack of a better term, very weird podcasts about hyper specific things. You know, they still want their mainstream media podcast. And we see more of those companies jumping in, creating content that usurps what they might be listening to on radio or, you know, watching on television or something like that. What's interesting on this is age 12 to 24 has stayed the same from 2016 to 2017. So is it that those twenty three and twenty four year olds are then being bumped into the next demographic? So we have the exact same number of people, young kids getting into listening to podcasts as those who are growing out of that demographic. That's a good question. And for me, what I think about what I listened to when I was a teenager, I was listening to music nonstop. And so they don't play the kind of stuff that I want to listen to on the radio. And I'm I'm just I've had it with classic rock because it's just I was laughing today because it was literally the same song that I've heard eight million times. And I was like, I want to, for me, at least, that's why I listen to podcast. I just can't take the radio. I really don't need to hear two tickets to Paradise ever again. Sorry, any money, but no. So and I just wonder if that age group then is like, well, I can't find anything to listen to on the radio. So they tuned to podcasting. Well, and I wonder if in going back to the music, also the rise of more internet streaming stations has made, you know, more viable music available to a younger population. It's not just I've got to go to the radio and listen to what the corporate world tells me to I can literally create whatever play the list I want. See what my friends are sharing. See what my favorite stars are sharing. So, you know, while podcasting has made more content available, music has also become more readily available and more, you know, consumer friendly. Why? No way. I used to go to the mall and I made a tape out of all the choices I had in the machine. It was amazing. Did you record off the radio? Make your own. Of course, I recorded. I've called in so I could record myself on the radio those days before you could turn on a microphone and be on the air, so to speak. One of the other interesting things I just noticed on this slide, number nine, is that in 2016, age 12 to 24 was 27 percent. Age 25 to 54 was 24 percent. This year, it's still 27 percent for that younger group. But the slightly older group has overtaken the younger group. So before it was only the young kids, I mean, not only the young kids, younger, 12 to 24 year olds, more of them were listening to podcasts than older people, adults, middle age and older. But now it's the other way around the 25 to 54 year olds, more of them are listening to podcasts now than before. That is interesting. The back and forth of that graph because like you like in 2013, the older group was higher than the younger group. And then as you move forward, the younger group took over and yeah, you're right. It's it's an interesting switch. And 25 to 54 is big. Yeah. Yeah, these are big. I do have to wonder. Fifty five and everyone else. Yeah, why don't they split it at these ages? Is this simply standard demographic ages to split things? Yeah, maybe like based on some kind of research like someone who's twenty four is significantly different from someone who's twenty five or one knows. Maybe the data gets crazy when you break it down so far. Who knows? Yeah, Tommy, we know you're watching. Nice. You can answer podcast consumers household income. Now, I know what I did listen to, Matthew, of your your coverage of this, this was this was kind of you guys talked about this a lot. Yeah, we we definitely like this slide. You know, both Glenn and I are interested in the advertising world. And so, you know, what this says is that the podcast consumer forty five percent of them make one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year or more. Whereas the general population only thirty five percent do. So we were definitely interested in how attractive that podcast listener is to advertisers. And clearly, they tend to make more money. And as we're going to see in the slides, they tend to be better educated and we'll even say they're more engaged. So, you know, these next few slides really just speak to why podcasting is such an attractive medium for brands to, you know, find audiences and find consumers. And again, looking at twenty sixteen, comparing this, it looks like in twenty seventeen, the podcast consumers are even wealthier in twenty sixteen. Forty one percent, we're making one hundred and fifty thousand or more twenty seventeen. It's forty five percent, four percent jump there. And. It's. Also, the seventy five thousand to one hundred thousand and one hundred to one fifty increase slightly. This is something we've always talked about. I mean, here's the thing. These these numbers we're talking about are the numbers you'll hear in talks for the next year. Now, the numbers you've heard in talks, you go to a podcasting conference, everyone's pulling out their favorite slide and they're going to talk about it. And we've talked about this one for a long time. It's one of the sort of selling points of podcasting is there people with disposable income are listening. So your advertising may work better, right? Or, you know, things like that. But so this one has always been sort of a shit skewed towards a higher income. I mean, anyone want to take some dangerously, politically incorrect guesses as to why we see this. I could take some non politically correct ones. People who tend to make more money tend to be smarter and people who are smarter want smarter content. Podcasters get deep dives into really fascinating topics that as Dave and Daniel both pointed out, you're not hearing on commercial radio. You're not seeing a broadcast television. So if you want smart content, you got to go to where smart people are producing it. And this is the place. And it does take on right now, it does still take a little bit more intelligence in order to get a podcast, because it means you have to understand certain finite or certain little details of things and install an app, use that app regularly and such. But is this a chicken in the egg sort of thing like do affluent people listen to podcasts or do podcasts make affluent people? I would say both. I absolutely agree. You know, the Tim Ferriss's of the world are certainly creating a whole new generation of smart entrepreneurs. So I would say both are accurate. I will get into some politically incorrect stuff later, though, about podcasting demographics. Don't you worry. I would be I would even be careful with saying that smarter people make more money. I mean, there's a there's a whole thing about opportunity and just a lot of people are smart and they don't get the opportunity they need to make that income so slightly politically incorrect. We could we could go there if we want right now. But but no, I mean, yeah, it's tough. I mean, we always get you always hear the comparison of the NPR crowd, right? That the higher educated different type of more. Just more talk about issues and people stuff that are. I mean, if you if you are not struggling to wonder where your next meal is coming from, you have time to worry about. Political issues that are happening abroad or in different parts of your world where you're not saying, where's my next meal coming from? I mean, it makes a little sense that you have more time to educate yourself, right? So I mean, again, I don't you guys don't realize I'm a sociologist by training. So I'm now I'm going to dive into the politically incorrect, but I'm going to take it the opposite way than you might expect. The NPR listener isn't necessarily always rich and affluent. A lot of those folks have taken on very altruistic types of work, nonprofits, social work, education. So they're not necessarily affluent when you think of the typical NPR listener. So I think podcast specifically draws affluent because you have so many people who are going above and beyond just what is available on public radio. Well, that's good, then. I mean, we need to be doing more of what NPR is doing. However, they're attracting a broader audience. We need that. I think that's something to aim for. Well, now. All right. So now I'm going to go into what I was fearing would be the politically incorrect. I fear that what NPR has done to podcasting, though, has also driven away a large portion of potential podcast consumers. Oh, Dave, Dave is applauding. I do. I when I heard this on your show, I was like, I've never thought of that. I'm like, that's a really good point. I do. We saw on the last slide at 55 and older is still lacking when it comes to podcast consumption. Now, there's probably two good reasons for it. One, podcasting is a technology rich thing. And, you know, older generations still not all of them are love technology. And, you know, they like doing things that are comfortable to them, listening to the radio, television, but also podcasting is so strongly associated with NPR. And NPR is so strongly associated with a progressive left-leaning agenda that I think there's a lot of people out there who think, why am I going to listen to podcasts? Those people don't talk to me the way that I want to be spoken to. Now, I think we're going to see that tide turn soon, especially with, you know, senior kicked off Fox News launching his, you know, focus on podcasting now. Is he? I did not know that. Yeah, he he's taking a show on the road. And apparently tonight, I think he's, you know, making his big podcast specific debut. Oh, careful. Careful what you wish for. My goodness. Interesting. Don't touch my media. Stick with the dying medium. Oh, man. All right. It's all right. He's going to he's going to rely on advertisers here, too. And that's not going to work out, buddy. All right. So he's going to have a Patreon account. Yeah, I don't know about that. People are excited to be to back that. If you support him and you think that what happened to him was unjust, you are willing to get behind him. And that's your that's your right to do. So don't you want to be successful? Be extreme. I don't care what it is. I don't care what it is. But there's two things you can do. Sell really, really expensive crap. That that stuff never goes in recession or be an extremist. I mean, look what happened. Look, never mind. We won't go politics. I mean, look at we're sitting in the middle of that right now. Yeah. Well, going back is another example of a guy that left a network to start his own more or less. And and another guy who started originally started his career as a liberal and realized that he could do better back to. Yeah. But realize he could be doing better by hitting the extreme on the other side. Of course. It's fascinating. Tax sales. It's it's it's it's ugly sometimes. All right. So podcast consumers education. This has seen some change since last year. The most significant change is in 2016. Of monthly podcast consumers, 22 percent had high school diploma or less education in 2017. That number dropped to 15 percent. The main increase. In these one to three years of college is the same. Some grad school or advanced degree went up one percentage. The main increase is in four year college degree students went from 22 percent to 27 percent. What I would now say is that basically equivalent to a high school diploma, the four year degree feels required at this point. After that, we have employment. So employed full time, employed part-time, temporarily employed. Anything remarkable here? I'd love to know how does this break down to those who are self-employed? I would imagine you don't consider that full-time employment. Well, yeah, if that's your only option is full-time, part-time, temporarily unemployed, homemaker, retired student, the only place you can go if you have your own full-time business is employed full-time. But I wish there was a self-employed option on here. I would guess that that would lean very heavy on the podcast consumption side. And it's again, one of those chicken or the egg things. Do the podcasts inspire people to become self-employed? As it did for me. And I know many, many other people who podcasts have inspired them to become self-employed. Or is it the other way around? Self-employed people tend to consume podcasts more. It's definitely a growing demographic. If you're self-employed, you're it's definitely a growing demographic. If you're self-employed, you have the opportunity to listen more, I would say, maybe, maybe harder to listen when your boss is is not you, right? Does not mean you have extra time to be consuming audio. I mean, I edit for a living, so I can't listen to a podcast during editing. It makes it very painful. But same problem. There you go. Weekly podcast listening. I'm more interested in this. I mean, sorry, monthly podcast listener. I don't care about you very much. But when you start listening weekly, now we're talking. I feel like we're talking about subscribers here. And our number is its lowest, obviously. And that was the one that really kind of bummed me out is 60 percent of people have heard the term. We got 15 percent listening on a weekly basis. And I'm like, but this is growing. I mean, you're bummed out comparing it to numbers that are of course going to be bigger, right? I mean, 50. There's more males. But if you compare. You know, some other some other thing about you as a male compared to all the numbers going to be lower, right? Yeah. And it's still a decent jump. And we're talking 42 million people. So every week, every week. Do you have 42 million subscribers, Dave? Are they all? I do not listen to the school podcasting. I think I think this number grows when connected cars are a regular thing. And so it's been held out as the Holy Grail. But we know we don't see any hockey stick growth in this. Yeah, I disagree. I think it's going to get me. Can we have some disagreement? My car is already connected when I get in my because I have a smartphone with Bluetooth. It's a I don't know what it is. It's not PhD connected, though. It's not push here, dummy. I mean, it still feels like a little bit of work. That's true. That might get the 55 over crowd get me. Like, I will tell you, if I'm just going, especially a short distance, which is obviously someone who works from home, usually short distance, I'm not bothering Bluetooth. I'm not bothering with getting the podcast, even though. Yeah, well, that's true. It wasn't easy. I had to go through a thing of pairing up my phone and then I had to jump through a hoop to get that. So you're right. If it's push here, dummy, ready to go. I think I don't want to say it's not going to help. I don't think it's going to be this giant hockey stick. I could be wrong, but I definitely will help. I think the car would help, if not for two things. One is the automobile industry is extremely slow. I think it was in the infinite dial study that they said the average automobile on the roads is 10 years old or something like that. Ten or eight years old, something like that. Yeah, so consumers take a long time. I mean, I'm driving a car from 2001 and I'm not going to replace that Honda as much as I love it until it breaks to the point that it's more expensive to repair than to replace. So and even when I do, I'll be looking at a car that's maybe two or three years old. So I'll still be behind in technology. I think that's the way a lot of Americans are. So the connected car will take a long time to catch on. And even if it does, I think the other thing that is going against it is the other technology that's advancing much faster and is far more accessible than a connected car, like earbuds, wireless stuff. Even it sounds so redundant to call it such, but truly wireless earbuds like the Apple ear pods or what I now have my eyes on and my ears out for pun intended is the ear in M2 earbuds that have absolutely no wire. You've heard me in the podcasters around table before talk about my impal Bluetooth headset with a little magnetic connection and such. Well, I'd love to replace that someday with the truly wireless things. I think that kind of not quite wearable, but something that's so small, so lightweight, so portable. I think that will overtake public usage faster than a connected car will. Because like for me, as much as I'd like a connected car, I'd rather not have to do with disconnecting reconnecting. I just want something to stay in my ear. And it's playing when I'm on my way to the car. It's playing while I'm in the car. It's playing when I get out of the car. Yes, I know some states forbid that, but most states don't. Here's why I think, and Matthew, you're looting to the fact that you think that this number will grow once it connects the car. I think it won't necessarily bring in. It won't be hockey stick because it won't bring in a massive new listeners. But those who are monthly listeners making it easier, which I think is what you're saying, will increase the. The dirt, the the regularity with which they listen, right? So potentially someone, if it's easier, it's there. You just might listen more if you are already listening. I want to say, I think Daniel, I think you were the one who tweeted it. It's like, what's that song that comes on when you want to listen to your podcast and the car? You know, when I connect my phone to my car, first thing that happens is a song plays. And so now I can't get ABC from the Jackson five out of my head because that's all we're going to start playing, even if I was just listening to a podcast in my hand. So, yeah, once once the once the connected car where I don't even have to connect my phone or once the car play is more is better integrated, where, you know, it accepts that podcasting can be a default entertainment source. I agree, it's not going to be a hockey stick, but it's certainly going to at least remove one of the barriers to entry. Other barrier to entry that's lacking is the content. I mean, I still think we could use some explosive pop culture blockbuster breakout content that's just not there yet. There's, you know, we haven't had the everybody in the world can't miss this. Yes, they're less than a popular, but they're still not, you know, they're not Marvel movie popular. And I think that's what we're still missing in podcasting. And I think I think what Matthew will soon find out and believe two on the way is that the numbers will remain the same. The reason there'll be no hockey stick plays because all those people who are wonderfully transitioning into their car and keep listening to their podcast will leave because they'll have the little ones and it'll be replaced by Moana and Frozen and other Disney classics. I'm sorry, you're not listening to my kids. I'm encouraged by all the kid podcasts that are out there, though. I can't wait to see that they're a podcast for three and four year olds. If you can make it the addictive drug that Disney is able to make it, then then you'll get your podcast in your car. I'm sure Dave Jackson has a few fans who say their kids just love his voice and I'm sure my kid Dave is going to start a singing podcast and then based on Disney songs. And then I'm telling you that is going to be a hit. I know Eric Johnson says his kid listens and they always go to the end to see if there's a Bernie clip. They could care less about my show. They just want to hear my cat. Nice. All right. So that's improving weekly. That's that's good. The numbers are improving every year. We look at this as that is the upside of all of this. This next slide, number 14 is the number I like seeing I think maybe the most of this. It's the average time spent listening to podcasts among those who say that they have listened to a podcast episode within the last week. The the numbers seem kind of spread out, but the the mean or the average number here is last year was four hours and 10 minutes consumed per week. This year, it's five hours and seven minutes. The biggest areas of increase, like one to three hours, three to five hours, five to ten hours, ten hours or more, less than one hour. Don't know. The biggest increase is in three to five hours and ten or more hours. Those saw big increases. Isn't it one hour to less than three hours? Is that the big what's the biggest increase from people? The it went it decreased from 40 percent to 36 percent for one to three hours. But the biggest areas of increase are less than one hour, three to five hours and ten or more hours, five to ten hours actually went down. I'm guessing those people who listened to five to ten hours moved into the ten hours or more category. And that's why that went up. So more people are replacing more, more podcast listeners are replacing more of their free or audio listening time or even just media consumption time with podcasts. Yeah. And I mean, I've certainly done that for I watched YouTube the way I used to watch TV almost and TV almost never goes on. And so YouTube is not podcasting, but my media consumption habits are changing and shifting. I mean, they're going to the phone, which is pretty much where everyone's going on. That's probably because you found good content that fits you on YouTube. It's the same thing. I think once that podcaster tries one and finds one that they like, then they know, hey, it's worth going through the hassle of doing a couple searches to find the good stuff. How many podcasts do you have in your podcast, catcher Dave? How many episodes or how many podcasts? Not episodes, podcasts, shows, shows. Easily somewhere between 80 and 100. Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure Dave ever recovered and whittled that down, but that's what happens to, I would say, most people, you find a podcast you love and then you realize, holy cow, there's amazing content out there that is speaking really to me that I can't get anywhere else outside of a podcast directory. Maybe YouTube, but and then you just go crazy and you start subscribing to way more than you can listen to. I don't know. That's how it worked for me. So I think the new person, once they once they find it, they do go out there and find a lot of stuff, not that they listen to it all. I mean, I literally had to taper back a ton because there was a ton in there. I wasn't getting listened to, but I found it. And often they're listening to content in the same niche, like for our once upon a time podcast, we had a lot of people who listened to us and other ones upon a time podcast. Same thing with lost people who listened to lost podcasts, listened to several of them. And it's feeding that passion. Exactly. Look, we're four guys in this case, the podcast essentially about podcasting. We're all we're all in that same niche. And I think we're all we're not hurting for audience, even for sharing. I think a lot of I think we share a lot of audience. Heck, I'm splitting my own audience with this show, right? I've got the podcast studio and I just roundtable. When people find, I mean, you don't listen to you don't listen to one Metallica song, you listen to every album they put out if you're a Metallica fan, right? I mean, so I always say there's room for another another hit song. I mean, there's another if you make great content in the same niche, you it's going to be different. So and people will consume it. I Dave, you try every podcast about podcasting. You don't stick with them if they suck, but you try them. That's why I was laughing. I looked at my phone. I probably have close to 150 podcasts and overcast, but I'm going to guess a good 30 of these they quit, they podfated and I've never removed them. So it's always like I'm always holding out for that, you know, Ask a Ninja episode to come back. I did finally unsubscribe from asking after, I don't know, five, six years. You're going to get your head chopped off. You know what I found interesting, by the way, the mean five hours and seven minutes, if you break that down a week, that's, you know, typically a average podcast consumer probably listens on the commute five days a week, an hour a day, half hour each way. Just something to think about when you're producing content that's that's probably, you know, and what a lot of people say is like just the right amount of that doesn't mean you have to only produce half hour shows, but just something good to think about. When I had a commute, that's what it was. Somewhere between 20 and 40 minutes there and 24 minutes home. I think what you could learn from that as podcasters is if you have content that's longer than 25 minutes is find some way to kind of break it up. Not like by having a segment, but just to kind of shift topics or shift perspectives or move on every 20 or so minutes. So that way people are able to get an entire chunk in potentially but with the way commute times and consumption works, you can never assume they'll stop listening right when you have your segment break. Yeah, I mean, and I always tell people don't burn three episodes of content in one episode. I mean, if their best stuff is very deep, I mean, put that best stuff up front in its own episode. I mean, the beauty is your podcast producer. You get to make these choices. But as Matthew points out, something to think about. This next one, number of podcasts listened to in the last week. Now. This one is so funny because I don't know, it was in New Media Expo, one of the conferences and these numbers were presented and I went to Tom and I said, are these shows like actual different podcasts or the episodes? And he said that they are they could be an episode. It could be five episodes of the same show, same podcast or five different podcasts. They didn't fix that. And then we had to ask this again. So I don't know why I don't put that at least as a asterisk or something. But number of podcasts listened to in the last week. People hold this number out like, oh, my gosh, people listen to what is this? Like we had average of five podcasts listened per week. Holy cow, people listen to five different podcasts a week, not necessarily. Well, but that that could play into what we talked about on the other one, the mean it's like if you have your favorite podcast that comes out on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, like you have one show that you listen to that covers your commute there and back, and that's your five podcasts a week. Yeah. And then it's just people think people get super excited thinking that, oh, I have a show and they have a show and people listen to five each. I'm good, but it doesn't it's just not what it means. I wish they'd make it a little clearer. Yeah. This is very close to what the numbers were in 2016. Yeah. The main shift is people went from. Three podcasts down to two, it seems three went down to win up. Daniel loves this next one. Oh, it's all yours, Daniel. OK, I'll cut you off when the rank gets too long. How do podcasts consumers listen to podcasts? And this is of all of the ways. So these numbers won't add up. Click on podcast and listen immediately, seventy seven percent. Download podcast manually and listen later, forty one percent or subscribe to podcast and download automatically to listen later. Twenty seven percent. I don't understand the question on the last part, but. Yeah, that's part of it. That's it. Each of these things are not mutually exclusive. And they do have this the next slide after that is or soon after this is something like of these, which one do you do most often? But these are not mutually exclusive. And in fact, I would say that many people who consume podcasts really don't know which of these they're doing. And it's not to say it's an insult on the people who use it. It's to say it's a compliment really on the smoothness of the apps. Now, are you kidding me? An insult? We can't get this straight amongst podcast nerds. Like how many episodes of the new media show do we have to debate? Streaming versus download. And they use the terms different. I mean, that drives me insane. Like, yeah, it's well, and it's not even to that, but it's like, for example, I would say I click to listen to my podcast immediately for some shows. It's as soon as I see that it's downloaded, I press play on it. Oh, no, I press the play button and I listen immediately. I'm clearly streaming it. This is not a fault of the consumer. So we, you know, take this one, the grain of salt. I wish the last option worked better for me. I wish that when I got to my car, the daily was already downloaded to my phone the way I wanted it to. But instead I wound up live streaming it basically in the car using data instead of having it on my phone via Wi-Fi. Well, see, in my case, everything of mine does download automatically ahead of time. And I list I press play whenever I see it, you know, certain podcasts. I decide, oh, I don't care what I was listening to before. This is the one I see now. I'm going to listen to this one immediately. So it's the lines between these are not very well defined as well as I don't think people really know what they're doing or necessarily care what they're doing. I mean, to say here that the smallest number of this subscribe to podcast and download on that automatically to listen later. And in this year's study, Tom Edison or Tom Webster talked a lot about what he called podcast subscribers. Those who say they subscribe. Well, the thing is if someone clicks on a podcast and listens immediately, that doesn't mean they're not subscribed. And the same thing if they download manually and listen later. What is downloading manually anyway? I mean, that makes me think download manually and listen later. Makes me think I download it from a website. I take that MP3 file and I drag it onto some other device. I take that device with me or maybe I burn it on CD and I listen to that later. That's what downloaded manually means to me. It means that I'm getting on a plane and I go download, download, download, download, listen on the plane. But I record a cassette tape like the radio, like radio. Microphone to the speaker. It works like a charm. I'm telling you, you could take interviews that way. It's amazing, great, high quality podcast. Does this matter? I mean, how much do we care about this really? Well, yeah. So the the data of this, I think, does not matter, should not be used for anything legitimate. I really have to say this is based on wrong assumptions and anything based on this data is based on a false premise. What this is really useful for, I think the spirit of this is to recognize that most people say they listen immediately. Yeah, I think there's a slide later on that says most people consume episodes within 48 hours of of it becoming available. And that's the like better metric and the one that keeps us excited for what we're doing. Yeah, for sure. A number of podcasts subscribe to this one is. I guess not. I was going to say this is more interesting than the how many I listen to in a week, but it's not off on his own. Yes, Dave, Dave is the one they toss out. Yeah, because Dave is ruining the curve here. But six podcasts. So we know, I mean, if you take this extremely nerdy group subscribes to 80 podcasts, you listen to five of them, right? I mean, like so it doesn't matter how many subscribe to it's how much you listen, but you can sort of correlate that with the other numbers I guess. And they're saying this is of those people who specifically chose the option to say, I subscribe to the podcast and automatically listen later. They say that they quote, subscribe, unquote to six podcasts. Again, it's it's now based on a false premise because this does not exclude those who click on a podcast and listen immediately. If you use pocketcasts, you don't have a choice and these numbers are legit because you have to subscribe to listen. Some apps are like that and actually drives me crazy. But in pocketcasts, we got you. We as if I work on it. I love it though. You guys doing a good job. All right. Method monthly podcast consumers use most often to listen to podcasts is another one, right? Another same thing. Let's move on. We've got a lot of slides here. We're not going to make it through all of them. Device monthly podcast consumers use most often to listen to podcasts. I mean, this is shifting towards thing here is that yeah, although things are shifting significantly toward mobile, it actually shifted a little bit more toward PC this year. Somebody made a good point that even though we are all mobile first consumers, most of us still sit in front of a computer at work. And so I think more people, I think that accounts for why this number may have sort of bounced back a little bit is that, you know, oh, I discovered podcasts last year. Oh, why don't I listen while I'm at the office? And, you know, that's your desktop back. I shared this in my episode 301, but back when iTunes first started supporting podcasts, there was a bandwidth issue with iTunes back in that would bring down my office network. If we downloaded one podcast episode, I would hog the entire bandwidth for everyone on the network. So they banned iTunes during the day. Now the network has improved. They don't ban it anymore. I don't work there anymore either, though. But so I think maybe that's something similar where iTunes back in the day was something that was like, we don't want anyone to install this on their computers. We're going to put a firewall in place so you can't access this stuff. Now it's probably a lot more companies are allowing iTunes to be installed or similar desktop podcast apps and allowing that kind of content to be browsed so more people are able to consume it on a computer than before. Maybe that's why it's increasing. Also, it could be increasing because of the demographics. It's those people 24 to 54 year old are increasingly going to their computer first to listen instead of to their mobile device. The next one is similar. Do we want to skip it? It's more about device. The mobile mobile first. Yeah. Yeah. Years listening to podcasts. I'm not sure I've seen this one before. How for how long have you been listening to podcasts? This one remains interesting to me because it the podcast subscribers, the folks who are dedicated have been doing this for a while. We're still not getting a lot of momentum with new subscribers is sort of how I'm reading this. You know, have you ever listened? Sure. More six months to a year, less than six months. Are you a monthly podcast? A little bit more. But really, when you get to the regular users, those people have been doing this for at least a year. So it takes a while, I think, for for podcasts and to catch on and so in psyche and to become a part of their routine. Yep. Awesome. Podcast listening locations. Another favorite of Daniels. I believe you're a fan of this one. This one is interesting of things in at home is the top and these are they checkmark all of them that they want. Whereas the next slide number 23 is where do you most often listen? Again, at home is the highest number in a automobile is next than after that at work. I think that's interesting and very similar to what it was last year as well. At people. I would guess these are people maybe lounging at home or doing work around the house, taking a podcast with them instead of music. These are me. Watch this. Watch me go to bed right now. Good night. One earbud. Oh, really? One side, other ends. I got stuff to listen to. What am I going to listen to these podcasts? I'm always surprised. I was every time I see this, I'm always surprised that the car is not number one. She does me. Well, we established that's a pain in the backside. I agree. But I just but still amongst people who listen. Yes. I'm surprised that, you know, you always see commuters try. I just it just always shocks me. How many people? Well, 65% said they listen in a car or truck. That's after 84% at home. I think it's kind of a time thing. People spend more time at home able to focus on something other than work or focus enough on a podcast. So it's simply they have more time to consume it at home and they're using that time to do so. I know for me, I never am just sitting in a chair listening to a podcast. I'm always walking, riding a bike, grocery shopping. I'm always doing something when I'm listening to a podcast. So consequently, I'm never home. It's always in the car or out and about hiking, whatever it is, riding my bike. So that's why I was surprised to see home so much because I don't I don't just sit and listen. But you are not. I'm not the average. You know, 150 podcast. Although he does have a landline. So time between downloading last podcast and listening to it. So this is, you know, I mean, Matthew, you were stoked about this, right? Did we jump all the way to that? I feel like I missed one in between here. Amount of podcast. Listen to I did. I double clicked. That's OK. I mean, both encouraging numbers. So the amount of podcast episode, listen to almost 80 percent say most, if not all of the podcast, great news. Do we do we believe this? I mean, do we I mean, because man, when we talk in stats, you know, we know that like 46, those are big numbers. This number is kind of incredible. Well, but when you survey someone, are they going to remember all the podcasts they listened to for three seconds and gave up on? No, they're saying, like, do we think that this is I think it's exciting. But but yeah, but I mean, if you have a loyal fan base, I mean, if your subscribe rate is a certain number, there's a good chance that those people are listening to all of your podcast. They're not abandoning you after three seconds. Yes, there's a lot of check your numbers on Stitcher. Downright depressing. That's always depressing. Depressing is all get out. What's the difference demographic? So you can't say that your stats on Stitcher are the same as your stats for the rest of everything. I'm not the only one that measures that way, though, right? There are other services that measure length of listen. And those numbers never seem to be good. So I don't know. I'm just I don't know the one we. So I'm using Omni for pod to pod. And we find that there are right. There's a few people that click on the podcast and right away they've decided either oops, I didn't mean to click on that. Or this isn't for me. I'm going to bounce or I hate the sound of that guy's voice. What am I doing here? But once people stay for a few minutes and enjoy the content, they're not going to leave early. So I do think this is a valuable and truthful number for the most part. It's not reporting all the people that give up because they don't like it. But listeners, I think, are loyal to the content. Go ahead, Dave. Well, I just know I use Omnia on one side and I use all sound on the other. And both those have that stat. But the problem with that stat is the only way you can get that status is somebody's listening on your website. Yeah, or there is a potential with the progressive download through like Wi-Fi or mobile data. Right. Right. I think that this doesn't say anything about the length of the episode necessarily. For example, I've started listening lately to the Pod Fathers podcast. No agenda show with Adam Curry and John C. Devorak, and it's sometimes three hours long. I'll listen to most of it. I listen to all of the content, even their sponsor, thanks section, or not sponsors, but they're, you know, they're nighting and all of that. I'll listen to all of that. I stop listening when they get to the stuff after the podcast, which is they're like techno mixers, mixes and things that the fans have contributed, little music ditties and things like that. I stop listening to that. Or I can say this now publicly because she's changed her format, Jessica Rhodes, former podcast, Rhodes to Success. I would listen to all of the content, but then as soon as that closing music, which at that time was what, two and a half minutes long or something like that of a song, which listening to that song at 2.25X with smart speed enabled, it just sounds like literally. That's what it sounds like. And so I would always skip that, delete the episode and move on to whatever podcast was next. So even as much of a podcast consumer as I am, I would say I listen to most of the podcast, all of the content, most of the podcast. Well, it's good to make sure you have something at that. Like I've always thought that Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me was very smart that they right before they do the credits, they give you the we're going to ask our panelists this question. And then the very last thing is their comedic answer to that question. So you sip through those credits, which normally you never would to be there for that last part. So people who have movies, yes, yes. Why are you getting up there in the credits? You know, they're giving you something that you're going to want that that has value to you. That's a good day. There's a few podcasters that do that. Harry Duran podcast junkies does a he does a he calls it the retention hashtag. So if you want to help promote the show, he gives a specific hashtag. I know Mark from Internet Late Night Internet Marketing. He always just at the very end, there's like five seconds of pause. And then there's this weird tape rewind thing. And he just talks about what's going on in his life. And it's always like a brief one, two minutes. I was playing baseball with my son and he did this and that and that and blah, blah, blah. He travels a lot. So he has these little interesting stories about being in China or wherever he's at. So I know a few people do that. They'll throw some little Easter egg at the end. Yeah. And any good YouTuber knows knows to do this, right? I mean, the beauty of YouTube is you have you have that locked in audience. You can measure things like time of duration of view and everything. And it is you data graph is so good that you can see where people rewind, where they fall off, where they come back, where they jump to. And you will start to see triggers. I mean, almost every YouTube video be like, okay, thanks, guys. You know, or, Hey, subscribe and just boom. I mean, when you have those verbal triggers that that signify the end of your show, we are done here. I've got some follow up stuff. People bail. So if you, you give the listener something to actually stay for, you're more likely to retain those people. But it's good. It's good news that podcast listeners are listening to most of the episodes. I think that well done advertising bears this out because I know that. You know, people, there will be ads that are very late in an episode and they're still converting really well. And you know, that's more likely that that person who's made it that far anyways is probably more likely to convert. But the point is they're hearing it. And I know we've seen that in podcasts that I work on that even a late ad can still perform very well. So, you know, it requires enough people sticking around in order for that conversion to happen. So then, yeah, now we're up to the time between downloading and when you listen to it, and this is that, you know, 47% say within 24 hours, 20% say within 48 hours. So I mean, two thirds are saying within two days of that episode coming out, they are listening. There's a percent missing here. These numbers add up to only 92, whereas last year they added up to 100%. Interesting. This is, this is obviously another thing advertisers like, right? They, they want their stuff to be heard in a timely fashion because I mean, you're better off not having time since it's sensitive ads, but that's not always the way it is. But well, and as a podcast, you're excited too. Cause a lot of advertisers are only going to pay you for, for downloads within a short time period. So good to know that, you know, people are consuming quickly. Interesting. Public radio podcast listening. I'm not sure I care about that. Oh, cause we need to skip here. Social media brand usage. Now, so, okay, this goes into social media. I think we, do we circle back around a podcasting on what they divide us to share every year, right? Well, one other thing we skipped that is worth pointing out is that, um, let's see, the numbers are, let me just add them 70% of people listen to most of the podcasts that they download. Not of a single episode, but of all of the podcasts they download, they listen to most of those. So that's pretty good. 75% is Dave Jackson. So. Okay. Well, that's all right. I'm like, well, then we get back into that download versus click to play. But yeah, people are listening. That's good. False premise. The social media brand usage is another interesting one. This is interesting for sure. It says that the US population, 81% of the US population follows a brand, um, like, you know, I got this from you, you know, 94% of podcasters, you know, follow brands on social media. Sorry, you're, that's the next slide. This is that they are connected, that they use a social media brand like Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, so on. 81% of the population does 94% of the podcast consumers do. Right. And then there's more there. Obviously, if you're into podcasting, you're probably into social media, you're into new cool tech is, as Dan pointed out earlier. Sorry. This is slide 30, where it's, uh, seven, almost 70% of people. Sorry. Let's try this one more time. 31% of people, general population follow companies or brands on social media, almost 50% of podcast consumers follow companies or brands on social media, which becomes really interesting when you go further on and you see how many podcast listeners are not using advertise sponsored, you know, advertise supported content, but they want to engage with brands, which means this is where they're going to get brand messages and they want to hear good brand messages. That's great news for the podcasters, um, for the podcast producers and for the networks. And that's slightly up over last year. Make sure you have Twitter again. This is the 31 is all the, all the people who are using Netflix, Amazon, Hulu. So podcasters tend to cut the cord. You can sort of surmise from this, which means if they cut the cord, they're not watching cable. They're probably not watching, uh, over the air television, which is all ad supported. They're watching Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, which has no ads. So, and they're not listening to radio because they listen to podcasts. So how are advertisers going to reach these people? Podcasts, yeah, this goes along with that number. This goes with the number of more people are shifting more of their time to podcast, right? So yeah, anything else that we got to share of ear. So what's different here? Why do we move into a new one? Huh? That's just a confusing one, basically to say of all the audio you listen to, how is that broken up? Anything that you want to point out in here or just to confirm. So we've, yeah, what we see is confirms the general population, only 2%, only 2% of their ear time is dedicated to podcasts. Whereas when you look at the podcasters, it becomes the majority or the largest section of their listening time is devoted to podcasts at 30%. Although we questioned. If you are listening to podcasts and you have streaming audio, why are you listening to Sirius XM or TV? The numbers on this are a little strange to me, but good news is if you're a podcast consumer, you love podcasts. Yeah, once you once you get your toe in the water, you dive in. Yeah, cool. So we're going to introduce more people to podcast that they will like. So they'll go on their own listening spree. But was there anything, is there anything from this that you guys would like to see measured Daniel? I mean, I would certainly think you've something you like. I wish they would ask this of the self employment thing would be interesting and that's a growing segment of the population. So it probably will work its way in, imagine as a demographic. I think more demographic questions would be good. Let's find out more about people. Yeah, I want to know, you know, not just gender and age, but, you know, let's find out ethnicity, religion. You know, let's get down into more of the details that are going to help people produce content appropriate to them. Let's let's find out if what I said about, you know, progressive versus conservative listeners is true. Or if I just, you know, made up that assumption based on how the numbers seem to play out in the trends. I'd also be interested in behavior stuff like, how often do they try a new podcast? Where do they learn about a new podcast? Like and how often do they go looking for a podcast versus hear one recommended and check it out? Stuff like that. How many of them produce podcasts, too? Yeah, that's probably a stark number. That would be an interesting question. How many, how many podcast listeners also produce a podcast? Yeah, that's a yeah, that number would probably sort of blow us all out of the water a little bit. You think it would be pretty high? I think it'd be really high. Yeah, I mean, it's it's outside of Matthew. It's an almost the way it goes. Listen to a podcast. Decide you'd like to do a podcast. Create a podcast, Matthew, a little backwards. But I am the outlier. Yeah, we again, we push Matthew's numbers out of the way and we get our real numbers. Awesome. Well, I mean, this is good stuff. Are you guys going to change this? Does this affect your shows at all? Or you just keep on trucking? For me, I was just happy that the numbers were still going up. I didn't think they were in any kind of I wasn't worried about every year. The way I don't know. I don't think the dips coming for you dip. I don't think the dips coming period until I think it'll go up every year unless there's some to be a ceiling, right? I mean, yeah, I don't think we're I don't think we're close to it. But there's no ceiling. No, I think we got a long way to go. I think the only thing this changes is to pay attention to like everyone said before, good content, you know, make sure you're not wasting anybody's time with, you know, even a good episode can have slow bits, get rid of them, but also help educate new listeners. Yeah, there are people there who are going to be interested in your content. Help them find it, help them subscribe, help them discover it, you know, in the way that is going to be most comfortable for them because that, you know, any little barrier to entry is a lost opportunity. Matthew, do you use this to sell to advertisers? Is this fodder for you want to be on a podcast? Oh, it absolutely is. I mean, again, there's there's nothing more appealing than affluent, educated and engaged, you know, that is what every advertiser wants. That whole they're not listening to commercially sponsored content, and this is where they're getting their messaging. Yeah, I think I think there are some folks who are a little too optimistic about where advertising is going to go this year. But like the consumption rates, I think that number is only going to continue higher as we put out good content. And I think as people start to understand there are other opportunities other than just the 50,000, you know, download episode as a potential sponsor, you know, a couple of hundred downloads. It could be valuable to the right advertiser if it's attracting the right audience. And that's where it gets tough, right? We've seen big advertisers come and decide to leave because they don't think it worked. And there's a danger there, right? But it's probably because they were led down the path by the wrong person and put it in the wrong places. Well, and somebody I was having a chat with made a good point. I can't remember who it was. But, you know, like if you're driving down the highway and you see a billboard for something, that billboard affected you. But when you go home and you try to remember what it was, you're going to Google it. Google is going to get the credit for that sale, even though that billboard really started that conversion. So the same thing is very possible with the podcast. You know, I might hear about Blue Apron while I'm listening to a podcast. But if I'm driving, I can't do anything about it. So when I get home, I Google food delivery service, podcast, blah, blah, like something and now that credit sort of shifts away. But, you know, the same way Ford advertises a hundred times during the same football game, recognition and repetition is just as important as straight conversion. Well, and that's the key is why we still rely on the promo code, right? Because we want people to be motivated to use our code so that they save money, right? So that we can connect the sale to our show and they get something too. I mean, it is yeah, I'm not if I hear something and there's nothing of value for me other than maybe the podcaster said, hey, support our show, you're going to go and get your $25 off or whatever it is. But but even the first time, you know, if you said Blue Apron, use my code today and I heard the first time, I was like, I don't really need that. But then a month from now, my friend says, you know, I tried Blue Apron and I really liked it. That's the second hit, but you've now lost credit for it because I might not remember to go back. So I think advertisers have to get more comfortable with the idea that these impressions are real and they're valuable. And, you know, they are getting ingrained in people's minds. Well, this is why we we hear the same advertisers, typically on every show, right? I mean, Audible still go Audible still going strong with promo codes. You're like, how is that? How's that happening? Everyone's got their free book, right? But they heard, you know, you heard it six times another six other podcasts, that seventh one, you use that code. And and then that comes back around to you, hopefully, as well. So I don't know, probably a lot to be said there on a whole other round. But we will head out. Great time digging into the numbers here. Probably something we'll look at again. This is fun content or can be stripped the pot a little bit. And I think Tom's OK. I mean, we did all right. We didn't we didn't hurt anyone. He's you didn't break his screen. So thanks, I mean, definitely thanks to Edison. Again, they've been doing this for so long. You know, and that's why I don't have a problem featuring one company or one organization on a whole round here, because I mean, they are really doing something great for podcasting here. So I'm going to pay it back a little bit and thank Edison. And thank you guys for joining us. Matthew, your first round table. Make sure you let us know where we can find one podcast for its focus. Where would this audience want to go? I mean, definitely pod to pod newsletter. You guys have to do that. If you're watching this show, you probably already subscribe, but if you don't, you're missing it. So do that and then what this audience? Yeah, for this audience, pod to pod is where you want to be. That's where we're talking to great folks. I mean, I've talked to two thirds of this panel in the past about podcasting and, you know, the kind of great stuff that they share and that's the kind of stuff we look for to give you on pod to pod. So we'll see you there. Awesome. Fantastic. Dave, you can find me over at schoolofpodcasting.com. Always short and sweet to the point of pure pro Daniel. Thanks for joining us. I want to point you to a specific episode of mine. The audacity to podcast.com slash three zero one. It's my three and a half hour long episode. Your number, your percentage number is going to dip though. Yeah, you should check it out. Yeah, full story of how I got involved in podcasting. The audacity to podcast.com slash three zero one. And I'm Daniel J. Lewis. Awesome. All right, podcastedroundtable.com. We'll see you for the next one. Ninety three. We're getting there. We're getting in the magic. Close. That's I think the hundred. I said that four year degree is a high school diploma. Episode 100 is basically the high school diploma for podcaster. So we're about to graduate, you guys get your robes. We're going to get a dorky picture. We should all have to work graduation gowns for that round. I'm doing it. We're doing that. I have one in my closet. Of course you do. He doesn't unsubscribe. He does. He gets more domains. He collects stuff. So I'm looking forward to seeing that 1980. That's going to be fantastic. All right. Podcastedroundtable.com slash guest. Sign up so you can be on a round wave. Goodbye. See everybody.