 So I just want to say thank you again Yoshi for sparking this interest in this in this topic of how to go online and how to make the most of zoom so No, I just wanted to know is it's my pleasure just wanted to ask though just I have some agenda or some ideas of what to share, but I would really prefer to begin always with what you guys want to know so If you wouldn't mind in the chat if there were some specific things I put down some ideas that I gleaned from from Yoshi's email, which had to do with how do you screen share to get the best Recordings from the screen sharing and sharing presentations. The other thing had to do with Personalizing the room by but with making sure everybody's got their names are the ways that you To talk to people like you say, hey, Terry, make sure you turn on your camera so we can all see each other and we can take advantage of something that Yoshi also shared with us earlier, which was This fascinating idea that social contagion is really spread much faster when people see each other's faces. So, and also when when the teacher can actually see their their own. So that's kind of an interesting thing there as well, right. And also, there was this idea about does everybody know how to set up breaker rooms because it's not intuitive. You have to do that in the settings and so There's a handful of things that I had in mind, but I did want to hear from you. So if you wouldn't mind putting in the chat. The things that you want to prioritize so that we make sure that we do do that. Right. So Maryam says, just any old thing no idea how to start. Let's just go. So great. So Terry glad that you're here. Terry, if you do have your camera. It'd be great to also see you as well. That would be very helpful. And Amanda. So you're interested. Are they telling you Amanda that they they want you guys to go online as well soon. So kind of interesting. We're already been online. So I already have like stuff set up in Canvas that I didn't create, but my class. I have three classes and I would say 50 to 70% of my students. Their work has their work schedule has changed. So we want to kind of give an opportunity to do some modification. Um, because You know, we can't, you know, we don't want them to drop out if that makes sense. We don't want them to disenroll because Their standard of living has significantly changed and their time to study. And so we're going to do kind of a little bit more of a transition like you did yesterday with us. So I want to kind of learn how to do that. If that makes sense. Okay. So part of it is also finding the flexibility of what we can and cannot do online and how it can be used. After the fact right there. Sometimes it's really important, at least for our class we care very much that you guys are able to rewatch the entire class. Sometimes we about half the people actually do rewatch our entire two hours. And go through all the notes and the chats because stuff is happening simultaneously. It's hard to get your head around all of it at the same time. But other people are doing this because they're looking at using how do you actually flip So could you flip a classroom and people, you know, you can do this from your phone or could you actually use the recording features and zoom To flip classrooms as well. So there's multiple reasons that people want to go into to doing these things. So, okay, I get it. So you're you're not been asked to do this yet, but you are you may Find a change in policy and that's going to push you to to actually get online. And so you'd like to know all There's another part about like all the mental health resources and stuff that cannot they can't go on campus anymore because the campus. So it's kind of like that part too. So, which was kind of secondary, but I want to be able to do it if I need to like Got it. Okay, great. Thanks, Amanda. And Victoria. Are you so you're more curious about what your teachers are going to do then So you're wondering, well, my teachers all of a sudden become amazing because they're all going to have to teach online. Is that what you're asking. I'm looking at the chat. It's kind of interesting here. What do you, what are you thinking I was actually thinking to do some projects here back home and Russia because what I know that schools don't really Flip the classrooms. Let's say in my city. What they do is they just do they give homework to students to do it completely by themselves and then they just send it to teachers and then they give the answers. So there is no studying. I was just wondering, why is it the case. So, and in most cases, like from what I know they just don't know how to conduct it and our teachers are don't know this technologies. That's why I'm here. Okay, great. Your curiosity. It's really welcome. There's them. I just want to make that just a bit of a clarification when we talk about teaching remotely or we talk about being online. There's this really big spectrum of different kinds of courses that we're talking about, right. And on one end, you'll find something where you have these one off webinars where people want to have hundreds or thousands of people Be able to hear somebody else and then you filter some kinds of questions here and there and it's very low on the interactivity scale, right. Then you get these things which are like MOOCs. You have these massive online open courses. They don't have price tags. They don't have deadlines really Very little interaction with people. Okay, those are not what we're talking about here. Okay, what we're talking about here has to do with online Courses and I would divide them at least into two levels of courses. Some are people that I know are just barely making it barely figuring out how to get online and they're just Just using it as a repository to upload things and pretend they can have their face to face class in a new modality and that's just wrong. But anyways, many people are doing that because it's a space to hang homework or receive things or do a quiz. But It's not really maximizing the potential of that platform. And then you have classes like ours right Tabatha, which are really cool where we have to we're trying to leverage as far as we can. The technology to make this a much more personalized experience and we you know use the breakout rooms and we do other things and it's a different way to think about online education and so That's what I want to talk about more. I'd like to, we have an opportunity this huge catalyst right now of of the virus. Unfortunately, but something's good is going to come out of this. I have already heard, for example, from my My daughter at Tufts and from another ex student who used to be in this class who's also taking now the classes are all online. Who just told me it's a I said, how was your class your first class and they said, it was amazing. I think that putting the teachers online has made them also improve their pedagogy and I said, what do you mean, well, they were told, well, remember to pose questions beforehand. If you can flip so that you can have a deeper discussion, use the breakout rooms like this, things that they had never done in real life. They've never done small group work before they've never asked students questions. All they did is lecture. So all of a sudden now people are being shoved into this new space. So it's a really beneficial thing. So what I want to do to start off and to get straight to Yoshi's first question and then we'll look at all the other ones that come up. And if you guys have things, do put them in the chat. You guys notice that down in the middle of your screen. You'll see that there's this green arrow that says share screen. So what I'm doing is I'm pushing share screen and I'm sharing my entire desktop. So that's the one thing that that's a big deal because sometimes if you just share a document or one thing at a time, then you're not going to be able to see everything. So right now you see that I've got my mail open the thing I sent to you guys I've got the chat here right. So the main idea here is that I'm going to minimize everything and I just want to show you that when we have a presentation. Okay, so what I do because the screen that is recorded is the one that is shared. So it doesn't matter if you have an assistant like sometimes. So Danielle I'll say Danielle can you start the recording it doesn't matter who starts the recording because this account goes to our cloud. So it doesn't matter before two years ago zoom was in a very strange place and we were trying to goof with all kinds of things and we would always say the person with the best internet should be the person who records it doesn't matter anymore it absolutely doesn't matter who starts the recording. Okay. So what I do is on my screen is the one being shared so what I did is that I took you guys I sort of drag you into one half of the screen more or less. And then I'll take the presentation we might be doing and if you see in the PowerPoint structure you see where you click on slideshow. If there's something that says set up slideshow. Okay, if you click on that and then you say browse by an individual window the second button here. That will allow the slide not to take over the whole page when we open it up, but it will allow us to just when I started when I go here to do the presentation, it'll just do that one at a time. And so what I normally do is that I resize that. And what's cool about it is that it saves all the transitions and all the other cool stuff. However, I'm going to add a tip here some of these things are tools and some of them are just tips and some of them are just sort of like, you know, after experience we realize some things are important to do and that's what we're going to share. One thing here is, I love my PowerPoints because I spend a lot of time doing transitions and things come in and it makes movement and we can circle stuff and add things as we go along and it's a different way of doing it right. But in other, in order to have that kind of a movement I need to have a PowerPoint that takes a ton of bandwidth as compared with a PDF. Okay, so if you are projecting from a space that has poor bandwidth to begin with, you may just be better off just taking your PowerPoint right and I'm going to save it and you decide you're going to save it as a PDF, and you just present the PDF. The PDF has to also be just dragged and resized. So that's the bottom line. Basically that's the, those are the two ways that we go about presenting our things to you guys. So it's just a matter of resizing because a PDF is a much smaller document than the PowerPoints are, but you don't get any transitions. But once it's opened, you do the same thing of resizing. I'll show you here. Let me see where did it put it. I don't know where it put it. What's the difference of the transition? Like why is that valuable? Oh, I just like it because I think it looks cool. Okay. I think it's nice to be able to have the slides, you know, to have one person like I'll put up. Remember when we talk about your discussion boards and sometimes I'll do one person at a time and not the whole group is, you know, listen to. So PDF, it looks like this, and then you have to scroll it. Okay, but it is less bandwidth. It's not as pretty, and there's no transitions. So if you have the bandwidth, go ahead do the PDF, the PowerPoint. So Yoshi, that was your first question, wasn't it? Did that did that answer that? Yes, yes, yes. And then also you put a chat window. Right. So the, so the chat is just something that I can pull up and then you can also resize the chat anyway you like, right? Now what's so interesting, though, is you don't, if the reason you're doing it is for a posterity sake for the recording, don't. Don't worry because when you are, when you get back your recordings in Zoom, you will find that it's already embedded. Your chat and the transcript will be on the right hand side of whatever was on your screen. So you're going to get what the screen is, which to us is the people and the presentation and just off to the right, you will see, I'll show you one of them just so you get a sense of this. But what's so, so you don't need to put the chat if you care if all you're doing it for is for the recording. Does that make sense? Yes, so if I'm just, yeah, so this one, let me see if it's this right is the right recording. I'm just going to record. No, this one doesn't see it. Okay, so do you see how this goes right here? I'll the screen that I had set up with the people. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the presentation and on the right, you will get the audio transcript and the chat transcript is already going to be embedded in your recording outside. So you don't even have when you're recording yourself, you don't have to even think about where do I put the chat now, because it's not all going to fit. But don't worry, that will be put up there later. The other thing to take advantage of Yoshi, I don't know if it's in your context if it's important to yell right now but these what we have our what we can do and what we can tell we when we have students. Before in Harvard we used to have a lot of students with a much lower level of English because there wasn't a total requirement. Now we don't have that problem and everybody is fine. However, what's really cool about this is once we've downloaded it. Sorry, when we download that the whole recording, we can upload it to a YouTube channel. And once you're in YouTube, you can do translations automatically. So I think we shared that you can share that with your students we don't do it for our students, but we we tell them how if we think that it's a need like if they're second language learners so if you were in a presentation in YouTube what you do is you see down here it says CC. So CC, if you click on that it automatically gives you close caption it gives you the subtitles. But if you choose what you can do I'll make this bigger so that you guys can see it easier. Instead of the CC next to the CC you see this wheel for settings if you click on that. And it's right now automatically the close captions the subtitles will be in English. But if I click on it and I say I want subtitles. And I want it to be whoops and I want it to be auto translate, then I can choose any language I want. Okay, so I can choose a Belarusian okay Belarus. So now is this a I don't know if you can you can read Cyrillic right Victoria, I don't know if this is any good, but it's a translation. Okay, so the idea here is, you can take the recording that zoom will give you after the fact. And in addition to having the transcript the other the request that we've made to zoom and they're working on it believe it or not. But once we get this that the transcript would be automatically translated. We're trying to get them to do transcripts in real time and translations and recordings and they're like okay we're working on it. I don't know what I don't know how fast that'll happen. But in the meantime you can use YouTube. Okay, so one one follow up question on this is just as you did the PowerPoint you can just maximize it to be your size of the window. Right. Yes, can you do the same thing for the YouTube video to when you when you click the bottom right box of the YouTube that will actually take up the entire screen not the window. Right, right here. So the same thing can happen within the with with the YouTube video is this one right yeah and then with the same thing with the zoom you can do exactly the same thing. Right, it just takes up your whole screen but then you don't get to see the the transcript part right that's fine. Okay, so. So can we do this YouTube video just as we did with the PowerPoint. Oh, oh yeah so you're asking no actually what I did yesterday remember when I showed you a video. Yeah, I just I just let it take over the whole screen like that. Right, I just clicked it to be the whole screen because it's in part the what I find very important is to share our slides and see you guys. But if I'm going to insert a video into the middle of our class like we had yesterday just sort of talk a bit about grit and have that one minute thing. I just let that take the whole screen and when it's recorded it will just be that that took the whole screen. Does that make sense. Yeah, make sense, make sense. Okay, so that's that was your main question and I and I and I didn't I said let's let's do something for everybody issue because I'm pretty sure it's not going to just be you who wants to know this. Okay, so other questions. Let's think about other things that you guys might want to talk about or even tips that you would say I see both Drew and Daniel are here things that you guys. You might want to ask us about how over the years it's taken a while to sort of figure out how we're going to do this but it ends up being a pretty decent system I think so Geraldine did you have a specific question you wanted to get at about Yeah, both Carla and Daniel are being helpful is when you like let's say you sharing a presentation like you do but in it's taking up the whole or it's taking up a lot of the screen and you pull it out so it's not taking the whole screen but you make it big, but then you pull up a word doc that you're reading from to sort of go along with your slideshow. Do they see that word yes they do. Okay, also the other thing is just to try this Danielle send me a private message in the chat. Here's the problem. Nothing is private. Nothing is private. Okay, so if she sends me a private message in the chat box here to you. I, you guys, it's on the screen for everybody. Okay, so you guys have to be very, you know, careful about how you're using that. I'm the other thing within share screen you don't have to share your entire screen, Geraldine so you can when you open share screen and it will give you a window with choices. And you can select only your Google Chrome or only your PowerPoint and there are cases where you would want to do that so that you know maybe you have something else going on. You know, if you do that simultaneously or a message you're waiting for or something then you could do that and then they won't see the, the silly, you know, meme that your spouse sends you. Right, the thing is when you, when you, when you immediately share it takes over the whole screen, so that you can't read you can't drag in or open some other document. But Daniel is clarifying that when you do when you do. How about we do this I'm going to stop sharing and you guys all look at them. You see the middle bottom where it says mute video and it also says share screen you see where that is right there. When it says share screen that little green arrow, if you click on it you'll see there's multiple options. The one that we typically do and we're recording is the one that says share desktop. Right, but there's other ways that you can only share a single document. Is that what you were getting at Danielle. Yes, but I think Geraldine is asking a follow on question which is like when you share you Tracy share your screen. On my screen it sort of takes over my entire screen. And if you right, right, you know, so if you push the escape Geraldine, then it will make the thing that Tracy shared with you a little smaller so that you can do other things. Tracy, yeah, I would go so exactly it and then you can also you also you guys should always just resize and put whatever you want. I know that some of our students whenever the beginning of our presentations remember we always try to drag the PowerPoint into the chat. Right, some people just simply look at that full screen and just listen to us the whole time, because they know if they need to they can go back and see other things other people try to keep their eyes and both things are going. Some people get totally dizzy seeing two sets of people. So what you can do in your own thing is that you can literally right now you can try doing this right if you do with Danielle said push escape so that goes it makes it smaller, but then you can also drag and move it to make any size you want. And if you wanted to you can drag us totally out of the picture. That makes sense. So everybody, that's the other cool thing about zoom everybody gets to set up their desktop the way they want. But they need to be reminded they can do that, because it's not intuitive to know that you can mess with that screen. And I'm sorry, I cut somebody off who was going to add to that who was that was that you again Danielle or was there somebody. I think maybe it was Amanda and when she's done I have another comment as well Amanda. Tracy, can you just do a quick, like I'm numbering what you're saying so one you share screen to drag students and a half the screen. I'm just I want to make sure that I have the sequence, because I'm going to be doing this later today. And so I just sort of set this up to give you guys a bit of the screen space there right and then I will, I'll minimize the chat right so that that's not in our face or whatever. And then I will look at what we had was was it this one was the last one we did this one. A PowerPoint that we had remember that I told you that once you have your PowerPoint open you should go to your slide show set up the slide show. Make sure you choose browse by an individual slide. Because if you don't do that it does take over your whole screen right browse by an individual slide the second button, and I say okay. And then when I start, when I just push present at the bottom here when I start my slideshow at the at this bottom part just start it. Only one will come up at a time, and then I drag that to where I want it so it fills up that screen. Okay. And if you've got a chance to do it right now and play with it and if you bump into something let us know Danielle what else were you going to say. Oh I was going to say at the top where right now it says you were viewing there's a green bar that says you are viewing Tracy Tokohama Espinosa screen. To the right of that it says view options if you click that that gives you on your own desktop or laptop some choices for how you want to view what she is serving you. So the size. Do you want side by side mode which changes how you see the classmates and some things like that so I think the main problem that the benefit of all those things is that the main we set up our screen so it's the best for filming to have the recording. And that makes some people dizzy because you're going to see yourself twice. So what most people should take the time to do is organize their screen the way they want to see things by dragging portions of things off, or minimizing the whole thing and just showing the presentation that's dragged into the chat the way we do right. So that's all up to you guys to to pass on to the people who are going to be using the screens so that to be using zoom with you. Okay. So is that okay for the filming part of it because Yoshi that was one of the biggest concerns is how do you end up having a video where you can see all this stuff well you only need to see the people and you need to see the presentation that's at least what we are prioritizing because we really think it's vital that we that everybody can see each other and everybody can you know interact in that way so and then automatically the transcription and the chat will be on the recording when you get it so you don't have to even drag that or mess with that. Sometimes I do make it big. When I say, you know, so what do you guys think about this you know how many of you are bilingual and what languages did you learn your language, whatever it is, and we want to share that I will share the chat, but normally, I keep the chat minimalized because it will already be recorded. Okay. Okay, so some other yes. Okay, other questions Yoshi for and Amanda you guys have pressing needs for classes today and tomorrow. What are some other questions you had about. Maybe how we go about doing this or we can start throwing out ideas and you can stop us if you can you can you tell them how they record because it does not automatically record and then you do have to do some setting changes I think on the back end to make sure it goes where you want it to and Yeah, what happened. So if you guys notice that on the bottom here. Can you guys see my bottom toolbar here where it says the thing about chat and everything. Well here is where and this is where you get the sense of who is doing what so I can, if you click on manage participants. What I see is that I came in first I'm the host so if drew it coming first he actually ends up being the host it because because drew Danielle Cynthia and I are equal entry points and so whoever's in first ends up being the host. We change that sometimes, depending on the needs and I'll explain what a host can do and what co host can do. Any of us can record okay and what you see at the bottom there right now we are recording you see the button this is pause stop and record. When you click on that initially it'll give you it'll give you several choices the one to choose is record to the cloud. Okay, if you accidentally record to your computer, you will probably not be able to turn your computer on again, because it's so heavy after two hours of recordings and video, it's just too heavy for the for your computer to handle. So you record to the zoom cloud which is typically the account that set up by the institution. Okay, so that's how you start it and that's how you stop it. Big thing to realize is that we're going to talk about breakout rooms a little bit breakout rooms to date are not recorded. They can be if you are the host the host can record the room there in by pushing record again, but typically breakout rooms are not recorded. Okay. The other thing to remember about breakout rooms then so if you see down here, the more button we get a bunch of choices. The more is just because I'll close the participants so that we can see this breakout rooms if I click on this. It allows you to set up either manually or automatically a number of rooms so based on the number of people that's here I'm trying to put this where everybody can see it. So it's, I can choose that okay there's 12 people here, and I can put them into four room, three rooms so I get four people in every room, or I can put make four rooms and have three people in every room. Or I can make five rooms and have two to three people or six rooms and have two people or whatever it is right, or I can decide wait a second. I really got to make sure that Tabatha is in the same room as Geraldine right and I go to create breakout rooms, and then I can assign them so I signed that I want to have Yoshi and Carla in one room and that I want to have Geraldine and Amanda in another room and then I want to have Tabatha and Terry in this room you see what I mean so you can do it by hand. But to be completely honest, it takes a lot of time and like that's what we made Drew do yesterday because here's the other point. When you have more than one breakout room in a session. The first one will automatically put people in rooms and it looks like it's just total random. It's actually based on the order they entered the room. So, and when they come back again and you do a new set of breakout rooms, half of those people are going to be in the same room again. So unless you manually redo a second breakout room you're going to end up with similar small groups and if you really want to mix it up you'll have to have at least the second breakout room has to be done manually or the first one has to be done manually one of them has to be done differently, or you're going to have similar people in those rooms. Okay. Now, how many of you are using are you guys going to be using breakout rooms because you need to know that in your account in zoom, you all should. I don't know if you've. I'm not sure what the status is of you guys but when you're in the in your own account here. So I can go, you'll see that this these are the meetings we have set up and those were the recordings that we had right you see that. Well, unless you go to settings. And you scroll all the way down to open breakout room possibilities. It doesn't matter what deluxe account you have you won't have that option to have breakout room. Okay. So we have turned on the options to have polling to have chats to have the whiteboard to have all these things available, but the breakout room is somewhere way down here I think it is. But unless that button is clicked, you will not see that option. Okay, does that make sense. I don't know where it is right now but just so that you know, you know you have to go to settings to actually turn on the breakout room. Okay. Is that okay. I don't think people on an iPhone or a tablet can be in a breakout room. I, I think there's some different privileges. And so just be aware of that because we've had students a few times who were having trouble with their laptop and logged in on their phone and then they end up in the room with me, you know, just sort of staying in the main room and and I figured later that there was. Do you have do you have zoom on your phone, Danielle. I do but I'm saying when a student you want to test it. I just want to test it because I don't know that that's true because we've had plenty of students be on their phones haven't we drew and we do put them in breakout rooms. I think, although I've you're right it could be that there are some different things functionalities. Yeah, I think everything you can do on the computer you can do on your phone I think I don't know. But, um, but in any case, just I'll test it out and figure out I know I'll also try to log in. Yeah, I know I had that issue with. You'll try to log in your phone and then we'll create a break out almost if we mess you up. Okay. So just so that you know, in order to be able to have this functionality down here to be able to create a breakout room in order to be able to have that functionality. Number one, you have to be the host. That is one thing that a co host can't do and you can't have anybody do that. So, sometimes if I get in here first and I need drew to create the breakout rooms. I then just make him as a host I can make anybody else co host right so I'm going to make drew host. Okay. And I change that and I become now nothing I have no status which also means that in my shared screen. I also do not see the option of creating a breakout room anymore do you guys see that. So I no longer have that. So only hosts can create breakout rooms. Okay, so that's a big deal. So I am now logged in. I'm logged in on my phone under the Harvard, the 1609 account. And I believe Danielle are you also in as a second account. I'm not now once I saw that we wanted to try. Let's try it but let's make you can you make somebody else. Can you make Danielle host or me host. I know I don't. Oh, okay. Okay, you're in is Harvard now. Okay. Okay. So, so you're the host you're going to have to create the breakout rooms. I'll create some breakout rooms and we'll see what is created and we'll be gone for less than a minute but I just want to see if the functionality of on a phone is true. Okay, thanks for letting us experiment with you guys. Okay, so when you he creates the room everybody's going to have to accept and go to that room to be pushing the room so join the breakout room and I'll see you in about 30 seconds. I can join. So I just did join. Okay. Okay, so I can I can end the rooms right now and but I am here. Oh, shoot, I can I am here on my phone, and I am also in the main room. So, yes. So it's just because I'm using my own account for the hosting privileges, and I'm using the Harvard 1609 account as this other thing to test as my phone so yes phones can go in. Close all the rooms now from the way from the way. Okay, thanks. So results of the experiment. I can't report because I had to take a call while. Results of this is that yes as a zoom app installed on a iPhone, you can enter a breakout room. I am having trouble manually closing out all the rooms. Yeah, I'm going to say I think it's weird that the other guys didn't come back because I guess they didn't jump back in like we know how to do it because we all of you guys have been in breakout rooms a million times and you know how to either wait out the minute or you know how to jump back in and we jumped all we all jump back in and they didn't so their minute is going to have to expire. Yeah, then they'll after that they'll be back push back in. I did not choose anything though because I was trying to respond to that phone call and I just was put back in the room so I'm not sure. Well, so then we need to figure out because we've had several times where students were stuck in the main room, and I was told that it was because they were on a different type of device so we need to figure out why that happened. So here's the here's the okay so that was a good experiment that we can say with clarity that if you're on a phone you can still be in a breakout room and Drew was in the breakout room and everything worked just fine so yeah Yoshi. I do go ahead. Just one thing that it was done with the zoom app. On the phone. Now if someone does not have a zoom maybe that's what it was through the safari browser or something. I bet you that's what it is true. Okay, so that's something for you guys to share with your students that if they do download on their phone the zoom app, then they can participate fully in the breakout rooms no problem. If they are entering through like they go through chrome and they go zoom dot us and then they enter their account and then they enter the number that's not going to allow them, probably being on the, the URL of zoom doesn't get you in but being on the app of zoom does get you in. Okay, so have them download the app so that they can fully participate. Sorry Yoshi you had a you had a. Yeah, so yes a question so when typically in this class that you run breakout rooms couple times in within one session right and in that case do you create the breakout room in advance before you start launching the breakout room and so that you save the setting. I mean I understand you can only set up the breakout room after everybody's own like you know on board and so that you could create but as soon as you know you now know how many students are there, maybe five 10 minutes into the session that you have like 90 minutes into the session maybe you can ask the TA to start creating those breakout room as I'm talking. And so that when it gets to the point that we can just launch it right away instead of, then the TA have to spend a couple minutes to, like you know to create the you know what I mean. It doesn't it shouldn't take actually a couple minutes literally. It's if you do the automatic one, it takes you at the random seconds it takes you literally open create breakout rooms, how many people do I want to do the room push it takes five seconds to create to get, which is amazing because face to face it would take you 10 minutes to get everybody you know okay so you guys go into that corner you guys going to that it's much faster, but when you have to do it manually manually. Definitely, at least you guys, you guys tell me but how much time do you think it's good to give another person a heads up before you have to set up the room screw. Okay, if you're trying to be intentional with what you're doing not just changing it up like so it's not the same as the automatic really trying to have some intention right five minutes, five minutes. So yeah, just give them a heads up. Okay, the only way to handle this is just to give them a heads up a couple minutes before I really want to have that launched. Go ahead. The other thing you can do is do automatic and then change it it will it'll populate it and then you can just sort of manually move the things that seem sort of off. And that sometimes is a fast way to deal with it. And if we're still on this breakout room question. It is important to know that if someone gets bumped, and they come back in to the zoom platform, they will enter into the main room. So they will not enter into the breakout room that they were in if someone gets bumped if someone comes in late. Now if you are the person that is operating the breakout rooms, you're the host, then you will receive an audible ding. And that will say is a distinct ding and that will show you that something is happening. It'll be a little bubble red icon with a number on it in it where in the bottom third where it says breakout rooms. And you will see that there is some action that needs to be taken like someone is unassigned and needs to be put into a room because of God knows what technical failure. Just the only other thing to add to that Yoshi is that I don't know if you know this but we we meet every week and we talk about students we talk about we're going to do and also we all try to be there. Like 15 minutes before the class starts and I always tell them you know there's going to be one breakout room just about 15 minutes into the class there's going to be another one in about an hour into the class. You know who's going to set up the rooms and then that's it's already set before so it's not we usually don't do it on the fly but I mean it you could do it like you could be talking and say and we're going to have a breakout room in about five minutes so please you know to be ready but usually we've already got that. shared yeah okay yeah okay so that's kind of the thing about how we film and that's kind of how we do breakout rooms and kind of the all the little things about breakout rooms. Were there any questions about those two aspects because there were a handful of other things we wanted to talk about maybe some ideas that I think we're important to our course and I don't think Victoria has a pretty good question with. presenter notes it's presenter notes or what do you call them talk notes. Talk track yeah but presenter notes like when you present and you want to see the notes maybe some people. And I know that that's a thing but I never I don't use notes and so I know that that might be a problem like Geraldine was saying what happens if you have like the. Your word thing on the side that's telling you what to do or the presenter structure you can set up the PowerPoint but it will show everything when you're sharing the screen. I would say if you wanted to maybe have a PDF of some notes that you would I mean it wouldn't work per slide by slide but if you just had a general set of notes. You could have it on your phone mail it to your phone and have that open or something keep it off of the screen that would probably be my first step. I'm not sure if you had a second screen option altogether. That's what I would do. You could have slides. Let's say it's a math class and you want to draw like on the board or for your students. Can you actually do that. Of course. Yeah. So if you see on the bottom where it says share screen instead of sharing the screen you'll see that it says whiteboard. So you can share a whiteboard structure instead and then you can say Victoria right you can share whatever goes on there right so it. I'm not very good at this. So you can use your whiteboard and do that you can also the cool thing about whiteboards is if you do things. You know you're better off you know type what you need to hear and share that but if you did need that you can erase these things right. But the cool thing is if you did put something like a special formula and you wanted to save it. You can download and save whatever was on the board if you want to then clear it off to do other things. So definitely you can do the you can do the whiteboard for sure. And I suppose if you were really going professional then you'd have like a Wacom tablet or something like that that would then be able to do anything of that nature where you just be able to basically illustrate. Yeah. But that's a whole agenda. So those are those were the filming things and those were things about the breakout rooms that we want to talk and also how you can share things. The other things that we that came up with us and that I think you guys we're super lucky that we get to have drew and Danielle be with us and to have people on the chat simultaneously. Harvard permits us that past 25 students we could have a second TA which does give us this this luxury that we can always have somebody on the chat. And one of the things that you guys know about all learning it requires Miriam attention and memory and if you don't have attention and memory you don't have learning. And one of the real problems Carla with being online in this setting is that stuff happens and then you think you heard something and you want to clarification. And was that Baki Rita how do you spell Baki Rita and if you've got somebody on the chat who's got their finger on the pulse of what's happening and they're knowledgeable like these guys are they're picking up on that and they are satisfying that immediate attention. I need to have that question answered before I can now go on and think about anything else. So rather than wait till the end ask questions or interrupt the the class in a way that you think is it might be bothersome to other people. You get it clarified on the chat and I cannot stress to you how I think important and helpful that is even though it might sometimes seem like a parallel universe like what we're talking about and then somebody will have to say. Oh, so sorry I was just I was typing in the chat and I didn't hear that last question or something because it is asking your brain to divide attention. And so we we struggled with finding this this balance that we think the chat can be beneficial if it's used for clarification and we really motivate you guys to get that out there and finished and get it out of your system in the chat. And but it really takes it's this this art. I think it's a it's a real art that that drew in Dandel bring to the chat to sort of make that conversation. Not detract but be very complimentary to what's going on within the system right so that's something that we wanted to mention about chats other observations about chats that you guys want to to make or to ask about Danielle with what frequency would you say that people because I sometimes remember and I don't always remember to say is there anything on the chat we need to be talking about. And sometimes you guys say before you move on like you just said drew Victoria had a good point here on the chat with what frequency do you think that should occur that that you are reminding whoever's presenting to make to pay attention to that space. Our chat is very active. You know, more than some other classes I'd say so I think if you are not going to have someone who can really be somewhat dedicated to that. Then you probably have to either carve out some space halfway through and maybe again at the end to for the primary profess you know the professor to go and see what's there and answer some questions. Otherwise, I think it's a little bit of a function of how many students are in the class and how active they are on the chat. And some of it maybe because we are responding then people go to the chat to ask a question. You know, but I think that's good because just for what we all know about the brain you guys, if you're not paying attention you're not learning and so but you can't pay attention. When your brain is saying, you know what was that guy's name again or she mentioned that book or why was that important or what was the name of or how do you spell. If that's hanging on in your head, you're not going to be focused so this chat plays a really important role in making sure that there's a mediacy of clarification so just wanted to mention that as would also say you know it's a bittersweet kind of thing, because I can quite easily stop paying attention to what's happening in the class to focus on the chat. This is this is where we have to find this really interesting balance because Tabatha I'm not sure if you're going to talk about this but we cold call a lot. And I don't know if that scares you or if it's helpful. Go ahead. Tabatha. Well, I was going to mention, you know, what are some of the suggestions you might have for students who are trying to juggle this balance of the chat in the watching the video because I know I've been doing this for years and I still can't manage it because I'm constantly distracted by that chat flashing off and there's no setting that I can put where I can disable the color of the chat or some alert of it. And I will say that I think cold calling is particularly helpful because it forces me to pay attention in classes that I might not otherwise and so I think that's an invaluable tool to use. And I think that that's something that many teachers are almost afraid to use and initially They're so worried that the class rhythm will be thrown off by asking a question that somebody might not answer correctly that teachers don't talk to don't bring everybody into the conversation. One of the things that one of your classmates really helped me see and use much better was um, she said, I really get nervous when you just call on me. Can you do that? Can you help me by giving me a heads up a teeny heads up just before you say something like we'll say this concept of neuroplasticity is phenomenal Tabitha because it's really one of those things that's more recent that we've just realized in human beings that we can document. And I'm not sure you know what you would think about, you know, that's impact that it's had on education, but and then I sort of give you a few almost, you know, a 30 second lead time, knowing that I'm going to say, and what do you think of that. However, having said that I've also been very mean sometimes when I know somebody is doing other things. I'm just going to call on them because they just need to know they need to be in our space and present and I know that sometimes that I don't mean to do it as being mean but I think that everybody in this class adds so much when they're there. But if they're going to be, you know, distracted and something I'm going to do my best to haul haul them back in and so, but you'll guys will also see that if you use the breakout room strategically, then it commits a much better participation afterwards so if people are prepped with the ideas in a smaller group, then when brought back to the bigger group it's easier to share. So maybe the order of those kinds of things is also important. I think Amanda made a good point. Excuse me in the chat which is that it also makes you feel like the, you're part of the class and you're part of a community so in the very beginning it might be a little bit like whoa the person just called called on me and I wasn't expecting it but it helps create the community piece of it since we're not in the room physically together. And we've all been in so many classes whether you were in the room with someone or not, where you just felt like the professor didn't know your name. And so, I think that that's one of the things that that teaching style or sort of choice really adds. Can I add to that. Danielle and I were in a class on campus and it was I think about 55 people in the class and I don't think that there was this much engagement in the class. And this is an online class you're thousands of miles away. So, I think that's pretty fascinating. My first flip class ever. I just didn't want to do it because I don't feel real techno technology savvy, but Danielle said she would help me so with technology. So, thank you Tracy. Thank you guys. No, I'm glad that that it seems to work for you go ahead Carla. I just wanted to say the same thing and I've been talking to someone this afternoon about you know using zoom and sort of classroom engagement and because they were like, Oh well you know this is way too hard and people will just not engage and so I gave this class as an example because for me, this is one of the most engaging learning experiences of my life. And because of the way that the class, the class works and the way the cohort is jelling as well and Geraldine just posted you know how much embedded learning we're doing in the breakout rooms. And I think that's just getting better and better as the week weeks go along because we are forced to engage with one another and we seem to be doing it rather well. And so for me that's that's the real value of this class and actually in a way I'm sort of closer to my cohort in this setting than I was in cohorts when I was a university student where I had had didn't have that proximity of sense or sense of proximity at all. There's there's a there's a lot to be said for the online setting and I think Yoshi you helped us understand this a little bit better and one week when we're talking about it. So face to face class, you are almost never face to face with most of the class in this class, you are in everybody's face you are literally seeing the faces. And in addition you're also seeing your own face. And so that just adds to the social contagion that is possible which is another point we're going to get into but Mary and you wanted to say something and I also wanted to ask you something very particular about names being called on by name and and does that make a difference. Do you think go ahead, Marion. Okay, well I'm way past the age of brown nosing so what I'm saying is from the heart it's not for. It takes a special kind of person and it takes a special type of energy, which you are busting at the, all of you drew Daniela busting at the scene with energy and enthusiasm. And the class could either be a disaster, or depending upon who runs it, or it could be the most wonderful thing which is what you've turned it into. So, I think that anyone who tried to emulate the process would have a very difficult time at the beginning. And I think a lot of Harvard professors have to put their egos in check now when they try to teach online and see that hey, you know this this is kind of hard and these students have to be super motivated, super intelligent. And how are we going to get that same type of enthusiasm in our classes. I just think it's a rude awakening and maybe when we walk at graduation, you know, they'll give us an extra round of applause. And the professors who teach. Again, I'm too old for brown nosing. I sent you a context which I think I always say to know is not enough, you know, you know stuff it's not enough, however, I think there are some things you need to know. And I'm pretty sure most professors don't know this social contagion is real and the intensity of social contagion is even stronger, according to Mayor's work, online than it is in face to face. We can not smell each other but we can certainly, you know, can are contagious in the way that we are with each other and one of the things that it should be known by everybody is that what that teacher walks in and does and feels and projects becomes the mood of that class. If you've got somebody lethargic or if you've got somebody depressed or you've got somebody who's worried or if you've got somebody who's totally nervous. And the best thing that person could do is to say, I'm very nervous right now because I've not done this and I'm going to be doing my best today. But you know forgive me if I'm I'm nervous or whatever just honesty in your face is going to go a long way and I and this is what my daughter said. Her first online class at Tufts the other day. She said it was incredible because she was anticipating like total and utter disaster but the teacher was totally honest. I've never done this before. In fact, I'm not crazy about this. In fact, I've always been against this because I didn't think it was going to work but I'm going to do my best and I hope you guys are going to do your best and let's see what happens and it was she said the best class she had had all And then I talked to another person who told who's who's also at her at doing the extension scope. And she said the same thing the teacher was primed to not only set up the class online but to walk in to say, I want to ask you what questions you have. I want you to watch this short video and then come and tell me what questions you have and let's start with that that was the only homework they were given. And it was the best class we had all semester so I have great faith that this is going to catalyze catalyze a lot of good or better teaching but the thing about social contagion is real, but most teachers don't even think they have that effect on anybody Anybody in this room can drive social contagion anybody can turn the mood around anybody, but if the teacher understands they have a particular power, because they get the mic most or whatever. I mean, they, they have to understand that they can use that they can leverage that and it's your face. It's your tone of voice. It's how you choose to interact with people all those things important. But we don't realize that power and I think telling teachers you know you've got that power you can make people feel like this is the worst thing ever because you hate it and just say that. And then everything goes from downhill or you can say, I'm nervous and I'm going to try and it will make all the difference in the world that honestly makes all the difference in the world so social contagion is real it's a very big deal but most teachers don't even realize the power of that online so anyways. Um, that's the second to the last point I just wanted to bring up other one last thing is about being online and documentation. We have an unprecedented amount of data when you guys said you know and talk to your classmates Mark, you guys will have I think we documented it I think it's more than 6000 conversations in this class, which is like unheard of between the number of discussion boards exchanges because most of your told respond and respond to two other people so theoretically you had two conversations most of you do more than two right. So every single week for 15 weeks you have you know, all of these conversations plus you do the three to one do you have all these other things we've able you're able to document your learning in a way that's unprecedented using the canvas platform and using zoom. We can also see Oh, that's the other thing. Use the chat to take role. Sometimes if you if you care about attendance or you care about those things at the very beginning, just throw out a quick question. So, you know how many of you can hear me just write yes in the chat if you can hear me you can just do something as simple as that, but it registers their name and we can we know who was there right so you can use that to get away from all those other silly things right and that same point is that we don't know of a way to check attendance outside of that doing that. If you go back to the recording, we can't see who was there right. You can look at the image, you can look at the you can't say these people logged into that call there's no call log. There's a setting in the zoom back end like where we select breakout rooms and other things where we can get like a list. I don't think that I am not even going to worry about that because I have our time is better spent doing other things. I when I do the three to ones. I remember who was in the class and I know and if they've done the three to one. That's how I know they were there and I know who isn't there because that goes automatically to the gradebook so we can see over time, who has been who's completed the work in that sense, but um, I don't know I guess you guys are all adults people choose what classes that go to and I could care less about that kind of participation I care about the quality of interaction and those are unforgettable. You know when somebody says X or when somebody, you know, has this idea that that's there and I see that we record that very well so it's not just showing up it's the quality of your participation and that's what gets, you know, created in our class so. Okay, so that was all I was thinking about. There may be other things that you guys want to ask and we're super happy to. We don't claim to be experts and we're still learning a lot but we have a great support team within Harvard so if there was some technical question you wanted to ask we can certainly get answers that you know if there was something other than what we shared right now but um, I have to say I love I love this platform I love zoom I think it's it works really well and we luckily have had really great experiences with it so far and Tabitha I'm not sure did you say why you were doing this I mean is this just to to make sure your teachers are on their game or is this because you want to do this or. More I'm preparing for needing to do job entry training via online and so I want to be able to have the skill set to say look if you're concerned about hiring me I can basically learn online and function in this format. And also I'm trying to figure out how to bring together you know my family on a social platform and so I think it's I just want to be able to be comfortable with this technology and. So yeah, that's what I'm running for. Do you have any questions about any of the like bells and whistles of zoom that or buttons that you saw that you weren't able to figure out or the things about maximizing and minimizing screens and all this other kind of little things that are around there. All that other stuff. I think I'm okay on those ones I think and Amanda had brought it up certain things about account types. I just checked like I have an account through my Harvard email but when I'm graduating in May, I'm going to have to start looking into getting my own account. And so do you guys have much information on the various levels and the various fees, you know coming out from. I don't, I don't know all of the options. And if there's anything having to do with a student, you know, or a recent graduate or whether you'll be able to keep your account but. But I do know that a full license my understanding to be a host is $15 a month one five. And the free service allows you meetings up to 40 minutes for zero. You do not to answer Amanda's other question. You do not have to have an you have to have you have to download the app under your computer to be able to access as a student but you don't have to have like an account or a paid account. You have people that you want to share, you know to join you in a zoom room, and they are not zoom users they have to set themselves up for access but they don't have to be a paying subscriber to be able to join meetings and lectures. Anybody, anybody like like Daniel is saying you just you just click on the on the link like like Ali did right, you don't have to have any account set up at all. And that's free but the thing is that after 40 minutes it cuts you off. If you want to have any other kind of accounts where you're able to do recording, and that it doesn't cut you off after 40 minutes or whatever, then you have to go to the pro thing. So are there other questions. Victoria Miriam. Did you have other things that were on your mind. I don't know Amanda. Are you feeling good about your class tomorrow. Yeah, I have a question. Yeah, go ahead Victoria than Amanda. I have a question about students analytics. So do you find, do you have it and do you find any metrics useful maybe where students spend most of the time where they click most or what's maybe some sections are not being used. Do you have this user experience. Yeah, we have it but we actually use more the analytics in canvas, because most what most people don't realize when you're going online you need the platform. So it can be moodle canvas blackboard whatever the platform is, and you have the teleconferencing. Some of the platforms like blackboard are the teleconferencing as well right so you have, you might need two tools or you might just need one tool or we find at least I find most useful the analytics that are in canvas, because zoom is just going to tell us if you hyperlinked to the video or whatever it is or we could look at the individual URLs we can look at sorry the your user number like from what from what computer logs on to our thing at what point. It doesn't give me that much information. I like to look at the canvas at our, we have a big analytics page I know that you guys can't see it but we can see it. So it tells us how many minutes, each of you spent on each page like we know exactly which page you open and which page you stayed on or, or, you know, and then it's open all night we know that that was an accident, it wasn't that you were really doing we can see how many times you took each quiz or what you got on each but those are things that are much more interesting to us than just you know which computers logged on to zoom so, but I would say that if you are talking about moving and expanding this into another space in Russia I would definitely look for a platform that did have student analytics, but I would not marry yourself to the analytics because they can be very deceiving. You know you can say oh my gosh this person's and spent, you know, just this one only spent 34 hours. Looking at the bundles and this person spent 300 hours looking at the bundles it doesn't mean they've read anything. So it doesn't prove anything it just shows which page they visited, but the quizzes are cool. The average person took the quiz 2.4 times. The scores went up by this much. I mean, so we can recommend you should take it more than once you generally to do better. I mean there's things that are, you know, good to know and there's things that aren't that useful so just. Yeah, if you're going to go for analytics I don't think zooms analytics are necessarily the most informative for those kind of things. They're great but they're not what we use it for so. Yeah, and Amanda you had a question. Yeah, so it's kind of a part a part a and a part B. So I'm thinking out loud here. I'm going to be sending an announcement I have 15 students and I have three classes so I'm going to be sending an announcement so that I can meet with my students if they can it'll be like a voluntary thing. So out of 15 students. I'm hoping to at least get maybe five students to meet and record and then have it available for some of the other students. Does that make sense, but then kind of give an optional another time like you do for the for the submissions. So I guess my question is when when we meet like I meet with session one those five students and do check in and whatnot should should like my assignment or I'm going to use it like an, I don't know maybe an icebreaker or whatever for the second session be different. Kind of like what you do. I never when I'm present. Does that make sense. Well, I think that there's two different things going on it depends and everything everything and education depends on the objective right so if your objective is an icebreaker, it doesn't serve to film the icebreaker for other people because what you want is people to be with people. Which is why in our first group I think what we did the very first to remember we put you into breakout rooms just so that people understood that there's such a thing. And we had you tell two truths and a lie or something like that which was just to sort of get you guys to right to talk to each other and actually see the functionality of the chat of the breakout rooms right the breakout rooms are not. Okay, but the other thing you're getting at if the objective is to go. Hopefully, by flipping the class we allow you to have a deep dive into information so you watch the video on everything there is to know about memory you watch a an hour of understanding what a typical lecture would be. Then you come to the class with all the questions that came to your mind while you're watching that video and we deep dive into specific questions right so it's it's a different objective is for us it's to be able to go deeper into the material. And to have it be student centered it's based on your questions it's not not what I want to make sure you know, you know that's on the video and that's, and usually when you choose what you record and flip all all learning is knowledge skills or attitudes. Okay, knowledge are dates facts formulas concepts Googleable things. Okay, the formula, the math formula, the, the date in history, you know, so theories, those are Google will think that's knowledge. What else do we teach skills, how do you apply the knowledge. And the last thing is most important to me at least is is attitudes values. Do you value teamwork, do you value the idea that you're, you know, that perseverance counts for something. Do you value. Are you empathetic to your classmates are you, you know, so knowledge skills and attitudes okay now the deal is when you're trying to think what do I put on this recording what am I supposed to do if I'm going to flip. To me, the key thing is to put all the Googleable stuff, put the knowledge stuff put the dates facts formulas put the names of the theories mentioned all that other stuff so that when we're in class together. We work on developing skills and changing attitudes. Most of I mean, that's the hardest and longest part of learning people can learn knowledge things really fast, you can learn knowledge that's why you can go to a conference and somebody spews knowledge at you. Easy to me why didn't they just record that so that when I come to the conference I can now say, yeah, but does that really work with middle school kids or is that only things for adults or does that you know really also apply in the American context if that was something you're bringing from France or whatever it is right. So to dig deeper. So when you're depending on the objective. Okay, you have to you decide if you're going to record and flip and use that for either the pre teaching, or what you were saying is to document that meeting so that other people could watch it and learn from that meeting. So that's a totally that's totally different we have the pre class videos that flipped ones. Then we record the live class sections which can be rewatched and they all have a different purpose right all have a different objective. So I have like class A and class B 15 kids and each, which is the same content. So I can use the pre recording for both for both, but keep the two a and B, like interactions separate, like different classes. Why do you need to do that. I don't know like that in my mind, I'm trying to figure out the schema of how I'm going to organize it, because I want to keep the groups together their cohorts a one cohort, and then cohort be another cohort like, for example, like cohort a their stuff is due like on Saturday by 1159 and cohort be their stuff is due on Sunday by 1159. I don't have to keep them separate but on the grade book and on the class, they're separate because The first question you should always ask is why if there is no good logic there I have no idea why you have two different cohorts of 15 people when it might be a richer experience to have one cohort of 30 people and then divide into smaller groups when you have I think in real class time they were, you know, 15 to one for class size instruction. Do you know I mean for teaching wise in real life 15 to one. So that's why I think they're broken out smaller classes. There's there's there's three is a ratio it's one to one to one for every hour you like you're in front of the class. You should be sure that you have one hour to prepare for that and one hour to evaluate it. Now if you are talking about putting all those 30 people together. Then it's a very interesting thing that you're talking about because the evaluation obviously is where you need more time, because the preparation and the presentation are identical. So, maybe by putting them together and those two that other space you give yourself more time for the other thing. I don't know. But anyways, it helps. Thank you. Think about, you know, what is the object. Why are you doing it like that. Before you just accept because right now this is the moment to change everything. Because right now everything in education is in question. So if they divide them into two cohorts and there was. Was there a purpose to that I mean in the class. Yeah, in the class. You know, they're the private school price itself in small class sizes. So 15 students to one teacher. So I have, you know, I have two sections of the same which I'm glad because, you know, it's two sections and, you know, different, you know, characteristics, you know, some some students in the class are kind of more like looking to apply for law school, whereas others are looking kind of more into like customs border patrol police officers, you know, so I don't know I didn't set it up that way. Just so that you know that makes it easier on you. But it doesn't necessarily make it better for them. Okay, just just remember that would just question everything. I think the way that we divide kids up by their abilities or this group is going to be, you know, is aiming for this or that the other thing. It's not necessarily the best way to get the best out of everybody. So, okay, thank you. So going back to anything technical. Is there anything technical that you want to clarify? Victoria Alley, Merriam, is there anything that's loose and or do you think there's anything Danielle we need to share. Go ahead, Merriam. This may be the dumbest question on earth, but I'm coming to this with a tabular also, so to speak. Totally. Um, so I have a prepared set of slides that Ali can tell you that that I showed of the class. And so I will have either them read it or I'll read it. And then have the class discuss it. I sort of run the class like I don't know if anybody remembers the TV show house where we sit and we discuss each thing and each one. And how do I if they're pre prepared slides. How do I connect that with whom I mean, I totally might be the dumbest question on earth but I really don't know what we're coming with that. You can you can do remember I told you there's multiple levels of doing remote and online learning and so a lot of people, their first steps baby steps is let's let me just take what I've done forever in face to face and let me just find a way to do it in the modality online. Yes. And that I think is missing a lot of opportunities, because what I would recommend you do but I don't know that it's comfortable because it's not a comfortable space everything the changes is hard, but I'm terrified, I am absolutely terrified. Well, so here's right now I have a pretty good reputation and I don't want to completely ruin it and say oh she's miserable don't take a class. It won't be that way at all, because one of the things that you could very well do that I think would just. It is. Most teachers don't do it because it really means upping your game and if you don't know your topic you can't do it but I don't think that's your problem that the main thing would be to record the way that you would you would talk about this slide and so we know the slide and it's another side of the side, and you've had that pre recorded. But what you're going to do then is what you have been doing you're taking advantage of the time in class to have that discussion but what you're doing is you're giving them even more time to prepare because you're saying watch this beforehand and then come to class with specific I have questions and you have questions okay but you're giving them enough time that they can re they can listen to that twice they can see what you said they get better they get deeper questions and then you have that discussion in class around you can do. You can do what you did before, but I promise you it will be better because they will have had more time to give it a better thought, but you can do that because you know your subject inside and out. Many teachers are terrified because the only thing they can do is what they can do on their slides they have never gone beyond that. Nobody's ever challenged them. And that's exactly what this format does when you flip it you you are so vulnerable to the anything people can ask you anything and you don't know what you're talking about. You know you're stuck you're really stuck and the only thing you can definitely do that and that moment if you don't know is to say great question I don't know. Let's look for that answer together, but because you're on the spot and that's why a lot of teachers do not flip they don't because it is a much deeper way to think about the subject area. It's harder. It's much harder. But it's much more fun. It's much more. This is why our classes never the same every year because all of you are different every year and you bring something totally different to the class every year that's why this classes is so interesting if it was the same thing over and over. I mean how boring for all of us. Sorry. And I think you ought to send a note to your classmates in this class because they all know how to use zoom. They all have been online and say if anyone would be willing to give me you know 15 minutes or 20 minutes so that I can practice with real students in a room. And you can tell me what worked and what didn't. I the worst is they tell you know but I think people will help you out. That's a great way to practice. Yeah. Go ahead. Ellen. Yes, I have a question for Tracy. So seeing that if we were to pilot something like this online instruction for new grads. What would you be recommended to initiate how many students to have in a platform like this. We have managed it depends on how much help you're going to get and depends on what your objectives are. If the objectives. Like one instructor like one person to how many ratio would you think just so here let's let's also go back remember I said that all learning is knowledge skills and attitudes all of it right. If the only thing your class was doing is an introduction to biology, which is a ton of knowledge. Very little skills. Unless you're teaching them how to use a microscope but very little skills and basically you could care less if you if you change them in attitudes and convince them that teamwork is good or that they should have perseverance or that maybe it is an issue. Here's what we've figured out and doing we've researched this for about seven years. If all you're doing is knowledge, you can do that in a matter of hours. And it's and you can do it with the masses mooks can transmit knowledge. They cannot. They cannot convert attitudes, and we found that at a minimum it takes about eight weeks of at least some kind of contact if we are with our students two hours a week or 15 weeks. We are pretty sure we get some movement on attitudes and just values and people start to shift things that they've they believe for a long time they start to shift, and it takes a minimum of eight weeks. And we've seen it happen. If you have less than eight weeks of contact lesson, you do not change attitudes. If you if you're trying to part of the attitude you're trying to get them is that they have to have empathy for where the patient is at but they don't have a very evidence based subjective understanding of how to treat them or whatever if you're trying to instill that and you've got somebody who has no empathy and they're totally technically fabulous. If you are trying to convert that person into being a good nurse who will be able to have that empathy, you won't get that in less than eight weeks. It's a very interesting process we've experimented with formats that have gone for a week, two weeks, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks, eight weeks seems to be the point where we can actually get change. But then after that, 10 weeks and onward, you're pretty sure that the, the, the majority of the people will change attitude so it's not just knowledge not just skills, but you start to see attitudinal shifts, which is it's a fascinating thing to watch and that's why I say it depends on your objective. If your objective is only how do you draw blood. Okay, you can have one person and 1000 students, and you can do it in an hour. So it depends on your objective in our class, we have found you're absolutely right Amanda is giving you this ratio of 115 more or less. And because we were experimental at the beginning five years ago they gave us two TAs for 40 people and they pretty much maintained giving us two TAs every single time. We have a luxury of having many people. And that makes a big difference to be able to attend to the class well so I think Mary will agree that having this number of TAs is a luxury for most. I would say it depends on your objective. If it's just knowledge you can have thousands of people and one one person. If you're trying to do something more substantial. I like Amanda's ratio of like one to 15, one to 20. So, so one of the things that I learned about our class is that on the writing, I feel like when students write their assignments and their peers are going to read it, their writing is that much higher quality, even if it's shorter. You're right. Just submit an assignment to me that's you know five pages, especially now with it being their schedule has changed and all these things. So now I'm getting you know a lot of a lot of questions about, you know, extending deadlines and all that, which I'm happy to do, but I would rather just have them have short writing like on discussion board and have peers. Go ahead and and give them feedback. Then I think something long. It's a great idea because when it's out there in the public eye it is theoretically it's a it's scrutinized by more eyes but also that person should care more. But it sometimes happens. You're absolutely right. It depends on what your objective is in our class that the writing is a form of thinking thing is why we. You have more than 90 assignments in our class. I don't know if you know that but between the three to ones the discussion boards the responses and the submissions, but because there's so many of them. We count for very little each one each one is, you know, less than a percent you know it's a small amount of weight towards the total grade which actually ends up meaning that you could make a lot of mistakes and still do great in the class right and so it depends on how you want to organize it I don't know in Daniel and your experience with other classes of having the discussion boards and all this stuff. Most classes do not milk the discussion boards as well. And they tolerate people saying like nice answer, or I agree, or you know, it depends on your objective for us we know that writing is a form of thinking so the more they write the better they're thinking, and it's hard and and And we are, we're tough on so many elements of the writing it's not just the quality of your thought but also can you synthesize and right within that time, you know, a number of words and all that stuff. If that's not your objective, then you don't have to have discussion boards that look like that. But so Tracy, can you hear me. Can you hear me. So one of I think the major things I'm encountering right now at my site is at my school is that we haven't done a really a good enough job or a thorough enough job with like the whole API format. So these longer papers, really, once they go through this thing called turn it in is the longer papers are really just, you know, copied and pasted information that they're quoting somewhat. I mean, it's just not, we haven't done a good enough job with the whole API, explaining it and how to site. Therefore, the longer papers are not very, they're not really they're just doing the knowledge but the skills and the attitude. It's just, it's not there. Does that make sense. Yeah, well there's a lot of we write teaching writing is very very hard I don't know if I told you that we're working on a new program called think right and be it has to do with different stages of thinking and writing. I wanted I bet I could convince somebody who's co authoring that with me he's a teacher in Missouri. He teaches English in Missouri, and he, we've been discovering a lot of really cool things about the stages of writing. And he, I'm sure he would be very happy to maybe talk to you guys or talk to the students about some hints. That's the other reason Cynthia is also with us she loves APA. I joke with her about that but she seriously ordered them into my last trip. She said, I will order to but you need to read it and I need to read it and I'm like, but the thing about understanding the rules is one thing but and knowing how to apply them as another thing but it takes rehearsal and practice. That's the only way people get better is just doing it really doing it. Amanda, this is like a little tiny thing but I think, you know, an APA basically they say you shouldn't use a quote. You shouldn't you should you should paraphrase wherever possible inside it, unless the way that those words are, you know, put together conveys the idea in such a way that you really cannot do a better job. You know, unless there's like a fundamental reason that you need that quote or it's like such a seminal work that you need a quote or whatever. And so I almost wonder in the case of these students if it would be worth artificially saying like, you know, tell them that but also like you're not allowed to use more than 40 quotes or something. Yeah, this many words per paper just for a period of time to see if it forces them to learn to think about what they're reading and how they can synthesize that because it's so much easier just to slap a quote into something. Right, right. And so the other big thing is is I think I shared with Tracy before the class started that a lot of my students, you know, they were bartenders, they had all these other jobs like as a restaurant in a restaurant full time jobs but now that they close because of they're now doing Uber or they're doing other type of delivery jobs to, you know, to make a living for themselves and some of them for their families and so I think now more than ever, our students have have a have a stronger understanding of why they need to be a right, you know, for a career for a career so they're not just kind of, you know, copy and pasting and putting crap together in these five page papers. But I mean, I don't know that we need five page papers. If they can really synthesize what they're doing in a discussion board and get feedback from their peers. That to me is much more effective than me just you know getting you know five page papers that you know the hyper links are on the, you know reference and you know all these things that they they're not changing it, you know they're not going back and fixing it so when I get the next paper they're still hyper links. I don't know that they're reading the feedback or I think that you also have to again it goes back to the objective what is the goal here if your goal is to get them to think. Yeah they need to do, you know longer things and more research and all the rest of it and learn how to do this for me. If the goal is communication, then doing these shorter things might be good. I think the only thing that is, I think there's one big piece missing from this conversation and that is people don't magically get better just because they're doing a lot. The role of feedback is absolutely fundamental and I think one of the main reasons that a lot of people haven't become good writers, at least as children is because they were never told how to get better. And what's fascinating one of the things that we've done in the research with Chris, Chris found this thing stunning. He entered he interviewed his 11th graders and he said I'm just going to ask him what they need from me, and I'm going to listen. And that gave every single student 20 minutes and every single student by the time they were 11th grade, they were really clear. Well, I'm told I ramble a bit and I don't have enough structure in my work and I need to plan better, because I never really use an outline. I mean they knew themselves right. Another would say, I'm told I just really talk off the cuff and I just don't do enough research before I actually start to write and, you know I know I have to do that a lot better, but I just don't know how to do it right. So every single person he talked to nailed their own problem, they knew what they didn't do right to write well, but they just didn't know how to write better they didn't know how to fill in that void that gap and so the bigger role here is in how much feedback you're willing to give. And this we spend an inordinate amount of time giving feedback. And that's why we think people get better at the writing. I don't know if you've got the time to do that and if that's really your goal because but we think it helps people learn how to think when we challenge them and they say, you know, not sure if you say this means that and well this in that sentence could mean these three things do you understand that as a reader I'm not following you I'm not inside your head I don't know what you meant by that indefinite article please avoid those and try to be more specific. Unless I tell you what you need to do. It's very hard to get better at it right so unless you have the time to give a lot of feedback. No matter how many writing assignments you give them if you're not nudging them to do it better. They're not going to get better. So you do have to you're going to have to decide how much time you have to be able to do that. That's why teachers. Basically, one essay at the end of the semester or here's your final project or whatever it's because that's the time they're going to give it to it, they're going to glance over it okay a baby and nobody's going to be around to get it back or get feedback and they're not going to learn from it that's not the objective of our class which is why we do think. So you don't have to do it to the extreme of our class but you don't have to do it the extreme of how right right. It reminds me of you told me the paper you did for that one class at the end of the term. Yeah, it was like a 15 page paper or something like two comments. Yeah, yeah, you know and I mean I do know that the longer you get you know the further along you get in some cases it's like, you know, that it just seems like a shame you spent an entire term, you're a graduate student. You have a doctorate in education you want more than just like well done. Right, right, right. And so I guess that's kind of what I'm coming to because. Because because because I teach online, it's already the classes have already kind of been shaped if you know what I mean, and it seems like there's already like points assigned for this and points assigned for that, but now because of what's happened. I feel like I have some flexibility and latitude to. And right now, honestly, I do have the time, because our schools, you know, San Diego Unified School District is closed until May 1. So I do have more time to invest in my students at the university level. So, you know, I feel like I can be a little bit just a second thanks Drew if you have to jump off and thank you for for coming in you didn't you didn't have to, you didn't have to be here and it's a deeply appreciate you guys showing up Danielle drew that you didn't it's an extra plus to have you guys here with all your good additions. Learning experience for me and you all take care and I'll be you know be well and you're doing the good work and we'll talk soon and have a good night. 007 I like it. I like it. I also have to get going but I wanted to thank everyone and I really hope to hopefully join you very to another occasion. Amanda and Tracy and drew you guys are great. Oh, thank you. And if you have any additional questions just go ahead and email and let us know if there's any other things that you had. It's we're happy to support you when you move to doing stuff online. Thank you. Bye everybody. Thank you.