 Great to have you still with us here on the Breakfast on Plants TV Africa. Our next conversation is going to be talking about the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines. The federal government of course has announced vaccinations will resume this month and Nigerians of course are still, you know, having different reactions, varying reactions with regards to COVID-19 in general. We've spoken, you know, at length here about, you know, the lack of attention to it, the lack of, you know, it seems like a lot of Nigerians don't seem to bother about, you know, being in the pandemic. The federal government of course, through the NCDC, is doing what it possibly can to safeguard Nigerians and ensure that as many Nigerians are possible or vaccinated against every single variant of COVID-19. This morning we're speaking with Dr. Blossom Madua Fokwa, who's a medical doctor. Thank you so much for joining us. So much for having me. All right. The numbers in Nigeria are rising. The Delta variant, which they have said is more, you know, aggressive, seems to have gotten into Nigeria and of course the numbers seem to be even rising faster than they did last year during the same period. Do you think we should be worried seeing the way things are going? So thank you so much for having me this morning. To answer your question, yes, we should just be worried, but on the one hand, on the other hand, we should also not be that worried. And I'm going to explain myself. We should be worried because the Delta variant is more transmissible. It's also able to put people in hospitals more than the original variant that we had. But the reason I say we don't worry is in pandemics, pandemics come in waves. We know the 1980 pandemic came in up to four waves. So we're in the third wave. So this is what usually happens with these pandemics. People become very cautious, start to adopt North Hamas school interventions. After a while, we can get exhausted. And that is exactly what we're seeing, right? People are tired. People are saying, you know what, we're done with this pandemic. And as soon as people become blacks, the virus begins to transmit itself. Another thing that is happening, another reason why we should worry is the longer this virus stays with us, the more it mutates. So the variant that we have now is not the variant we started with. It's in the very nature of RNA viruses to mutate. So that is exactly what is happening with this virus. It's basically playing out the way we knew that we would. That's why we continue to ask people to adopt North Hamas school interventions where your face coming gets stay away from crowds. And then when the vaccine comes, take the vaccine, that way we're able to build up a new defense against the virus to stop it in its tracks. Yeah. And we've not done very well with regards to vaccinations. I know we're meant to resume second wave of vaccinations this month, but we still have a very, very long way to go. Other countries have spoken about herd immunity. Nigeria, it might take a long time before we even get close to herd immunity here. But share your thoughts on how far we've come with vaccination and how do you think that may have or is in any way helping our cause here in Nigeria? So with vaccinations, we were not able to anywhere our targets yet. Our target, our initial target was to vaccinate 111.8 million Nigerians. But right now we were just at 1%. So we haven't even basically haven't even started. So that's why we need to provide an extra layer for ourselves. People in the developing world that don't have access to these vaccines, we need to continue to maintain those non-pharmaceutical interventions are face covering. We need, we can't get tired of doing these things. They sound so simple. That's why people actually don't think they work, but these things actually work. So before we can get our population vaccinated, we need to protect ourselves by being responsible, avoiding crowds, wearing our face coverings, washing our hands regularly. The government of course will continue to do what's necessary in order to get vaccines into the country. The COVAX vaccines, I think we heard about Modena, I think that might be arriving in Nigeria also. But you know, I want you to share your thoughts on some of the fears that people have that as the vaccine or the virus continues to mutate, the efficacy of the vaccine reduces. And are those serious concerns? Yes, a lot of people have asked me this question and people have valid concerns with vaccine efficacy with the new variants. But a beautiful study came out, I believe it was last month that actually showed that the vaccines are efficacious even against the new variants. One thing we need to be looking at is effectiveness of the vaccine in keeping people out of hospital. So that's really the key thing with these vaccines. An individual may get the infection, but the individual ordinarily maybe would have been hospitalized, would have needed to be ventilated. But with the protection of the vaccine, the person is kept out of the hospital and the person is able to be kept alive. And that's what we've seen at the study that came out last month, that even with against the new variants, the vaccines are still efficacious. Is that research carried out here in Nigeria or outside Nigeria? It was research carried out outside Nigeria. Because remember the Delta variant was just detected in Nigeria just a few weeks ago. So do you think it's sad maybe that we don't have enough research being carried out on a day-to-day basis here in Nigeria to give us better clarity of what our situation is? You're absolutely correct. I mean it's an indictment on the education system in Nigeria, I'm sad to say. But we're not doing enough research in country to aid us in decision making. We tend to rely on research from outside the country. And it's really sad because even testing for example, testing for COVID-19 in Nigeria is way below the level that should be. So if we're not even testing enough, then how then you wouldn't start to do the research? Because we're not picking up all the cases that we have. So we have a lot of layers, a lot of issues that we need to solve before we can get to the point where do you boost research in country? So shouldn't that be a problem? Because from three things that you've mentioned now, we're not testing enough. We're not doing enough research to understand the peculiarities of our COVID-19 situation here in Nigeria. And at the same time we're not vaccinating anywhere close to enough. So are these three factors signs of a complete explosion of COVID-19 here in Nigeria? Because we should also add that people are also not following these non-medical rules. To wear face masks is a struggle here in Nigeria. People aren't washing their hands, people aren't keeping away from crowded places. You've completely preached my message. That is exactly what I'm saying. We're not doing everything that we need to do. We're not vaccinating enough. We're not being personally responsible. We're not doing the things that we ought to do. The only, I'm not going to call it a protective factor, the only factor that we have in our favor is that we have a relatively young population. Only 3% of this country is above the age of 65. And that's why we haven't seen the kinds of numbers that people in places like the US, Italy, in places like Brazil, those places that see it. But that really is our only saving grace. If not, the situation will be completely different. So you have raised four value points that basically I was trying to raise. Fantastic. We also haven't carried out proper research and back to the research conversation to tell us if that truly is why we have so little debt. These are just insinuations, I believe. Exactly. We haven't done enough research. I mean, I'm part of a few research projects and sometimes fund constraints just make it difficult for you to actually go as far as you want to go. So we don't have a supportive environment for research. We don't have enough funding. The brain drain is taking a lot of our good people outside the country. So all these factors really have come together to just put us in a position where we're basically just struggling to meet up with the rest of the world. Yeah. Talk a little bit more also about vaccine hesitancy and those factors here in Nigeria that might be limiting the number of people who actually go take these vaccines. Yes, absolutely. So when we started vaccinating people in March, the vaccine hesitancy was, I mean, we couldn't believe how hesitant they were. I mean, on social media, videos were going viral, all sorts of conspiracies about these vaccines. But then people influential individuals began to publicize their vaccination, began to push the message out, and people actually began to get more receptive. I remember actually walking on the streets with a megaphone inviting people to get vaccinated and listening to their concerns. People were saying, oh, the pandemic is over. People were saying, oh, COVID-19 is for the rich. It's for people in Victoria Island and Lekit Baseball. And when you really sat down to talk to them, you realized we needed to do a lot more community mobilization. We needed to actually get down to the brushrooms and speak to the people where they were. And we found that people now began to get more receptive to getting vaccinated. So now the vaccine hesitancy has reduced to a very large extent based on the risk communication activities that we carried out. Okay. So we don't move too far away from our topic. It's the efficacy of the vaccine. And we're speaking this morning with Dr. Blossom Madua Fokwa. And of course, it's mostly about the Delta variant, Nigeria's COVID-19 situation and what must be done. So let's now move into the what must be done aspects. Now that we're not getting enough of these vaccines, how do you think Nigerians can be encouraged to ensure that they wear their face masks and wash their hands and stay away from crowded places? We don't have enough public information. The Nigerian government doesn't seem to do so much with regards information from the National Orientation Agency using every platform possible to inform more Nigerians about the vaccine. Yes, very, very, very valid point. And it also goes back to what I had said earlier about people getting exhausted with this pandemic. It's almost as if the government has gotten tired of telling people repeatedly to wear your face masks. I remember at the early part of the pandemic where they're always on TV, on radio, on the streets, everywhere, billboards. But now it's almost as if everyone has gotten exhausted with it. But we can't get tired because I'm going to keep saying it for a climate like Nigeria, a place where the resources to vaccinate our population are extremely limited. Non-pharmaceutical interventions are key. And like I said, we need to go to the grassroots. I mean, there's a kind of audience that is listening to me right now on TV. But there's also a kind of audience. The majority of Nigerians will not be watching TV. So we need to get to their leaders. We need to get to the key entry points. I remember going to a particular location. And really, we have to speak to the head of the agorals to let us speak to their people. And he actually helped us to mobilize their people. So that's how we get to the Nigerians, wearing our face masks, regular hand washing, avoiding crowds. These are things that we have to keep doing because this pandemic is not going to let off till we're completely, it's completely dawn ravaging the world. So we need to keep doing these things if we can't get tired. Alright, two final questions. So if you can quickly just respond to them as briefly as possible. The first one is, you know, is it true to say that everybody will get infected with COVID-19 at some point, just like the regular flu? Or is there more likely that the virus will be defeated and will eventually fade away? And some people would never get to experience it. And then second, I saw a report on vaccines not being able to fix erectile dysfunction after COVID-19. Is that enough motivation to get vaccinated? Okay. I'm going to take the first question. I'm going to take us back to the 1918 pandemic. The 1918 pandemic got everyone actually got the Spanish influenza. Not everyone got it. So there are things that you can do to protect yourself. I mean, aside from getting vaccinated, if you wear your face covering and avoid crowds, you're less likely to get the infection than someone that is going around and not having a care in the world. To answer your second question, I do not know there's a connection between this vaccine and erectile dysfunction, but I'm pleased to leave it at that. Thank you. All right. Dr. Blossom, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for speaking with us. So we look forward to another conversation. Hopefully when the vaccines arrive, and there's more and more questions to be asked about efficacy again, we'll speak with you. Thanks once again. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. All right. Stay with us here on the breakfast. Our next conversation is going to the Southeast, the IPOB's sit at home order. How successful was it? And of course, what are the little details here and there that must be spoken about moving forward? We'll be getting into that after this break. Stay with us.