 Hey, what's up guys drew here that anxiety guy calm back for another Saturday morning with Billy Kross. It's up No, it's all good. It's all good. Good Noon here. Yeah, I'm going for the Clark Kent. Look you do have the Clark Kent Here's the thing about Clark Kent like if you take your glasses off. I would still know who you are. I don't know How did he get it? Oh, wow, maybe it is. I don't know who you are now because I can't see Yeah, I can relate. I could totally relate. How does anybody's eyes work? I don't get Mine used to be really good apparently, but not anymore. Mine were never good. I like bad genetic draw there What are we drinking this morning? Are you back to the Camomile? We're on the Camomile and honey tea, but look at this dual weld dual wielding Oh Invested yeah, yeah, we can Double the cloud strength. Do you know that I just I find a lot about vaping this past week Come on who knew like I was unaware that there's more nicotine and then there isn't a cigarette It depends what strength E liquid you have Welcome to the vaping show I've got I started on the 12 milligram stuff, but now I've loaded to the six milligram So you can get like three milligram and then you can get no nicotine And what's the point of that? The point is like it doesn't contain the tar and all the other Chemicals there in it. Yeah, so you just get the nicotine without all the other nasty carcinogens Exactly, and it's cheaper. It's cheaper. Let's just see if we could do 10 minutes on vaping. Okay. Yeah Throw some shapes up This is the time we're going to vaping tricks I watched a video on vape tricks the other day How sad is that vape nation like that's the most popular video on YouTube for vape in h3h3 vape nation He's basically taking the the mick out of a pin of it. It's funny All right, it's a channel for everything dude So yeah, so yeah, I invested it's like a Ten year anniversary pen from the company that I get my pens from yeah, but it's the same one that I had before It's just like fresh new battery Yeah, I deserve it new you do you work hard new year new you new baby It's like when you put a new monitor on your computer and everything is faster like I thought I need a new monitor because When I split from my ex I put my computer in the boot of the car in the trunk Sorry for like two three weeks and I finally got around to getting out of the trunk It was scratched to hell There's lines on my monitor up in the top corner and it's not when I'm like trying to design stuff And I can see lines everywhere. It's not good great. It's actually not scratched. That's me. I have lines Yeah, you need both Yeah So Yeah, so welcome welcome everybody. That's good. We've said absolutely nothing yet So we have a bunch of questions today. I see you do from our little Facebook discussion group If you're not in the group, we'll put it a link join the group So I thought about I went to bed at about 1 a.m. This morning I thought to myself like I should post on there now So the US people because obviously when I post it like 10 a.m. My time you guys are Sleep, that's the sleep. So I should have posted last night But I was like turn the other way in bed and my phone was behind Ain't nobody got time for that. Well, what's what's my excuse? We made our plans yesterday and I like I thought the same thing like I should post now. Yeah Did I know I didn't either and I was upright. So what does that tell you like I didn't even have to make it ever My phone was probably in my hand, but I was just yeah, yeah, so having lazy Nah, I'll post later. We'll do it next week. We'll do it next week post next week So we have a shit ton of questions good questions We can answer and then we had our good friend Eddie DT last week suggested we talk about stress So I think we should talk about that So I could say yeah, right so I'm up for that Eddie I think yesterday last week Eddie had asked about like what happens when you're really stressed at work And then you bring it home and like how it affects, you know Like your home life or the other way if you're like super stressed at home, how would it affect your work? Which is those are good questions, but I think Sometimes we get confused I think between what is just stress and what is anxiety and what is like regular anxiety? because of just life shit and what is When does it go into anxiety disorder and like I think people in our situation tend to try like they'd have a goal of like Let me try and get rid of all of this. I need to always be happy and always be like calm and never feel upset and That's not that's not realistic in any way The thing for me. I stress at home and I work at home. So So no matter what That's a thing like especially a lot of people in this situation that Wind up trying to find a way to work from home for obvious reasons. Yeah and and then never did you never get away from it like It's one of like I've seen that question so many times like what do people do to work from home and Like me and you have discussed this before like yeah, it might be a good thing because you can avoid life Getting out there and avoid people and that but it's not a good thing like if there's any way around it Yeah, take the other route like get out there I used to work full-time and that I mean I do what I do now and I probably wouldn't go back Right, but that's just because like I'm experienced in what I do now You know, I mean, but if I could go back and make the choice. I Know that working in a busier place or even if there's just two three people, whatever it is It would have been more beneficial like anxiety wise. Yes Yeah, that's that thing where the oh like I Want to find a way to work at home because I can't leave the house But you really should be working on leaving the house as opposed to trying to find a way to accommodate that and work from home Yeah, but you know the other thing about working from home because I could do like my business could be entirely virtual I could run my business from anywhere in the world and for a while. We were virtual So like my primary operation not and that wasn't that was way past the anxiety or phobia stuff It was just a business decision like we'll just be virtual and we would meet at like, you know Here in the US we have like Panera Brad or Starbucks. We would meet in those kind of places now and then When we had to and that was okay, but working from home could be really isolating too It's yeah Yeah, and then you know, then you never get away from your work also I guess it depends because well, you know, you own the business. I own the business. So work is there 24-7. That's just that could be Yeah, can bring it any time People freaking bringing me and say I'm coming around your house now and wait if I'm freaking out already then there's You know, I can't really get out of it. I can't say no. Yeah, I'm freaking out. Yeah Please give me half hour. It's just But I spoke in the past I turned work away because I've been Yeah, yeah, yeah When I was in my worst times, I totally did that that was one of the things I think that really spurred me on like this is crazy I'm just I'm giving up business opportunities here I think people wanted to give us money and I would like work around it. It's like, I don't want to go there Literally go there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if I had business meetings where I'd have to go to their place Then I'd be like I'd be thinking of an exit plan like I'll pretend my phone's ringing or something like that's just Crazy all these preparations. It's like no It's crazy, right? Yeah, but but I think so we were talking about stress then work It's to work stress at work stress at home. I mean, I that's a whole topic You just have a whole podcast based on stress management. Yeah, but like life is stressful, man I was gonna say, yeah, like you always get through these things. That's the point That I make like fuck me. Nobody was more stressed out than I was last year. Yeah, like yeah No, you were you were thrust instantly into like a high high stress situation. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you just I don't know For me personally like I deal with those stressful situations better than I deal with nipping to the corner shop So I don't know why I don't know what it is Yeah, something takes over whether it's like you have to do something about it or I Don't know. I don't know the answer that yeah I think a lot of that is You're so this that's that point like what's the difference between just life stress and the whole anxiety if your thing Or people will ask the question like what do you do with people in your life that that trigger your anxiety or make your anxiety worse? And and I think that's so stress people work any situations like there's a difference You can't say it makes your anxiety worse it does But that means you still have to work on your anxiety stuff like what happens is life is stressful people a stress your job at stress Your dog tears up the sofa that it's stress But stress doesn't have to equal fear and like triggered into panic and like yeah, yeah I think the way that happens is most people like whatever if you're at work and your boss is pissing you off because you Know he or she is just an ass You might get stressed but other people get stressed all the time you might get angry at your boss But it doesn't it should not lead to focusing inward now and worrying about how you're feeling and if you're dizzy Right Yeah So I think what winds up I was We had a big It's okay We may have to do a little editing here No, I'm I even know yeah now you back now It's because I've got three twelve year olds upstairs on frickin Instagram snapchat. Yeah, true boss running 30,000 devices and Yeah, I've been there we're like the Wi-Fi router is just red hot just glowing but um, yeah, I think what I was saying is you know you get into that stressful situation and Like stress is something that happens to you from the outside in which is normal So you'd be stressed about like what happened with your ex or like maybe something at work or a money situation And then most people get stressed and they focused on that external thing like I'm angry as my boss or I need to change This job or I need to like fix this money problem Like you know whatever but people in our situation Some external stressor happens and then boom you turn inward like well, how did that happen? How did like your boss being an ass turn turn into like how you turn into like jelly legs for you Yeah, yeah, I think that's what stress does for me. It makes it like an external thing I don't I don't start thinking about myself. I start thinking about the problem. Yeah, how to solve it And that's smart. So it gets you out of your own head. You're not You're not worried about how you feel or what you're thinking and then miraculously it's okay So it's weird cuz like yeah cuz when they used to be problems at home like if we were going through an argument or something like that I would not be folk focusing on myself at all like that's when I'd be good. Yeah, that's what I need. I need an argumentative You need to start argument at least once a day I need more shit man Tina just shovel more shit his way Is what we need we need hostility I'm in the perfect line of business as well because web designer clients are Not the best Understand I can relate I get it. I'm not gonna watch this. They're not gonna watch this They're never gonna know American accounting firm is gonna watch this. We're well. I hope not that was stressful We did that one together. Yeah, that was stressful. Yeah, I've done some big jobs I did a job for a big company over here called Yodel like a big delivery network and that was Super stressful, but I felt great. I felt good like physically like anxiety wise, but I was super stressed But I could tell the difference Yeah, that makes sense and I think so here's advice so to answer it like follow up on Eddie's question I think here's advice. No, I think we came to something where we could maybe offer actually actionable shit so like when stress happens whether it's work stress or home stress or whatever like Focus on the thing that is stressing you like the external influence whatever it happens to be and That's where most people focus on their stress And that's what keeps stress from becoming anxiety and fear like internalizing it and immediately turning inbound and saying, oh Well, I had an argument with my wife So now I'm gonna panic and like I'm worried about my legs and being dizzy and passing out and having a heart attack Like worry about what she said or like have that argument or talk it out or like Solve the problem is probably the answer. Yeah. Yeah, but otherwise, how do you deal with just? Not bringing home work stress or bring your home stress into work Stress management stuff. We get Susan in on the call. She'll just talk about meditation. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know Just know when to switch off I guess in it just Well, you are in control of that you are in control of it Just don't take it home like if it's stressing you out draw the line do something guys just drag yourself from it focus on the things that Make you feel happy man. Yeah And you could I've heard so many different tips and tricks over the years like stress management like Schedule time to think about it schedule worry time like and then when you're done with that I here's my 30 minutes to worry. That's all I'm gonna do something else now. That's that's a good tip I guess. Yeah, yeah But so much of what we talked about like that that thing where like well when the anxiety is screaming at you and you just need to Put your focus where you want it to be like these tools for me What I could say my own personal experience the tools and the skills that I built getting over like panic disorder Bar phobia like have served me well in terms of just being stress management tools Because I can say well now I'm gonna think about this Yeah, yeah, and now I'm not gonna think about this and I can move my focus somewhere else so just I Don't know like in principles Same principles, right just not in like emergency or crisis mode use the same tools and techniques. Yeah Yeah, yeah, knowing where to put your focus and where it's most useful at any given time, I guess He keeps it from going home and kicking the dog. I guess Yeah, that is exactly what it is Let's have a drink. Let's have a drink. Let's just I have yeah, I have a giant bottle of water. It's it's a rude to just wait. Yeah Just do it. It's a real man's bottle of water What's mine and English pussy man The actual comical size of this water I was out and around yesterday They had no water in the car and I was so thirsty. So I bought this like 72 gallon Thirsty he was like a dollar Thought you were mucking the size of my water hell. No, I'd do that. I would never do that to my friend Not the size of your water bottle Backup reel it in reel it in Yeah, so that's there you go, that's our seven minutes on stress Do we say anything useful? I think we did more time on vaping than that, didn't we? possible that we did Should we go into questions from the girl quite? Yeah, there's a few good one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you you posted and everybody's diving in here So let's see. Yeah, let's you want to just go through from the top man from the top Michelle Michelle Harris Health anxiety is taking over my life. Well, it's not really a question, but okay, Michelle. That's awesome. Yeah, that's all right She's not alone. She's not alone. There's a few a few yeah a few comments in the group Yeah, I know Andrea posted something Andrea was a friend of mine. She joined the group like last week or so She's having like stomach issues and stuff like that. Right, which is just causing health anxiety and It happens I wish I had more experience. I don't have that experience. So I yeah I mean I do and I say like I'm kind of I'm almost over it I guess but I've got I've had a dodgy stomach for like three days now, but it's just not it's not Like the same as it used to be I'd be thinking oh shit something's wrong I'd be asking I'd be asking my ex like do I look all right or because that was the thing I used to do Yeah This is stupid. I used to because my son is pale like Josh. He's pale for some reason. He always has been so I used to say I used to say to him let's do the pale test So I'd make him stand next to me. We'd look in the mirror and I'd be like, right I'm not as pale as you. I'm what I'm good. So I'm good. So good As long as he's lighter than me Geez Yeah, yeah exactly, but now I've got nobody to do that To ask those questions like Josh in here and my daughter's freaking browner than me So I ain't gonna work don't stand next to her. No, no, geez So like for me, I just don't research stuff anymore like I just try not to think about like my stomachs dodgy Okay, maybe I eat ate something that's upset my stomach or I don't know. It could be could be anything Anything and if I don't know That's my advice could be yeah, it could be anything It's so difficult though because people are gripped with this stuff. I know like Stephanie at Stephanie actually in the group She actually started like I know Google or a health anxiety and stuff I guess if you you know, I can link it. That's fine So a bunch of people have kind of started discussing health anxiety in their own group, which is great And that seems to be the number one thing like the Cumpulsion the health anxiety appears to be a compulsion in a lot of ways I want to Google my symptoms. I need to I want to learn I want to ask I want to see I want to compare I want to check I want to check I want to check. I know some people who are just compelled. I want to check my heart rate I want to check my blood pressure. I they can't not do it. It's yeah, yeah Yeah, so I think health anxiety is I'm almost beginning to think is its own thing Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, like it's its own thing The only the only way that I've sort of managed to wean myself off the check-in in that is Notice when I was doing it and just stopping doing it like I don't Google anything anymore Like a stupid thing like my dad's got a blood pressure monitor Yeah, like I used to borrow it for like a month or times from it and I'd be constantly checking it And I'd be great But if I took it and it was low or high it'd freak me out like but before I took my freaking blood pressure I was absolutely fine. So what's the point in doing that? That's a really good. There's one particular person. I mean, she's very open about it, but I'm not gonna say her name and she'll watch this I'm sure like the blood pressure thing. So what was going through your head? So you borrow her like there's I have a blood pressure cuff in my house. Yeah, I just never ever use it Like were you worried that your blood pressure was high and that's why you check it I just became a habit just like I'd check if I maybe if I had a symptom or something Yeah, check check my blood pressure. That'd be the go-to thing Yeah, you wouldn't be bothering me that much, but I check my blood pressure and if it was off Even though I don't really know what the fuck it's supposed to be But I just know like all that looks a bit dodgy or it's different to what it was last time There must be something wrong But no, I felt exactly the same before when I before I took it now I'm freaking out because I think something's wrong Stuff Check and Google right I think it's that's easy for that's easy for me to say just don't and I think I had a conversation the other day with somebody who's struggling with that and People I think they look for like but how do I not check but how do I not check you just don't check? Yeah, so I've never had an addiction problem either But I've heard people describe that addiction thing like you're addicted to something whether it's alcohol or some sort of substance Every time you have that urge to reach for it You must deal with it at that moment and not do it and then you might have to do it again in 10 seconds And then again in 10 seconds and again in 10 seconds like I Just don't know any other way around that you just you just have to just tackle your urge as it comes Yeah, yeah, because I have an addictive personality Afflicts playstation, but I used to like it also I'd take my But it'd make no freaking difference if it was up or down like There's just it's just those little things, but they can send you into a spiral That's the point like you might not feel that bad when you do it But when you when you see like if you check in your heart rate all the time and it's up a bit It's gonna make you feel worse Whereas if you just don't check it, you don't know in an hour's time you're gonna be alive still So what was the point? I know that you know the health anxiety thing I've seen it described health anxiety is a lot of OCD involved in that right Checking checking checking checking and intrusive obsessive thoughts Somebody posted the other day that they're completely obsessed with with fear of cancer. I mean, we're all afraid of getting cancer That's it's not a good thing when it happens, right? But I don't even like saying the word Yes, I and a lot of people do it makes a lot of people like people who don't have a health anxiety Don't want to say the word. I understand it's very it is a frightening thing But there's it like I don't want to get that and I don't want anybody that I know or care about to get that Of course, yeah, but but there is absolutely no evidence anywhere in my life that I have that Nothing says I have that yet Some people will literally fixate on that like well, what if I get it? But what if I get it? Well, and that's that like well, what if I get it by a bus or what if I get it by lightning? Or anything can happen, but right now So I think health anxiety like living in the now and being mindful and trying to stay in the present moment because health anxiety is almost Entirely entirely like in a rational prediction of the future Like what if this happens it is entirely a what if I must find out so I can protect myself against what I think might happen Even though there's no indication that it will and it never has I'm just gonna keep going but but the OCD I've seen one of the best things I ever saw about OCD, which is a health anxiety thing That's the health anxiety thing is is attacking that underlying anxiety that fuels fuels it so those compulsions are fueled by the anxiety so It seems to be that people who feel more generally competent and confident like right now You're feeling much more competent and confident than you were say six months ago. Yeah, yeah You are more immune now to those things So if you felt like oh, you are literally addicting yourself to Netflix at homeland you could probably just stop today Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's something it's not it's not I gave up. Yeah, I gave up. Yeah, I gave up smoking. I gave up smoking weed I gave up drinking gave up caffeine All these things can be done I think that the thing for me on this like I've got a hard-lined approach on the health anxiety Yeah, like you say that you've never really dealt with it But like stopping doing those things is what stopped me obsessing about having these things So I'm speaking from experience when I say like that is why I don't obsess about cancer or freaking heart failure or anything like that It's because I just don't engage in what my mind is trying to tell me like I've got a dodgy stomach now That's it and the right story. That's it statement of fact No, it will clear up if it doesn't I'll go and see the doctor whenever okay. Yeah fucking Bob Right because there's probably like 50,000 people in a hundred-mile radius of you that have a dodgy stomach this morning Yeah, yeah, so I went on Facebook now and scrolled down my timeline that I could probably find ten posts from people that have got something Something or a cold or dodgy stomach or whatever. Yeah So that is I think that is excellent excellent advice in the end it comes down to just each urge as you get it Need to Google right now. Don't Google if you feel like you need to Google again in 15 seconds Don't Google just break it down into each individual urge and get past it And then when the next one comes it comes, but it's it's a repetition thing like anything else Repetition repetition repetition. I wanted to check. I didn't check. I was fine. I wanted to check I didn't check. I was fine sooner or later. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I did. Yeah, yeah Yeah, sooner or later your brain will understand that I do not need to Google to be okay You'll be okay. Yeah, and I think trying to stay happy for today And we'll move on to some more questions But like at the moment even though you may have a little bit of an upset stomach this morning Or like my nose like it feels like I'm getting sick again, which I'm pissed off at but Like what am I gonna do? Like it's just is what it is what it is, but I'm upright. I'm breathing. I'm talking to my friend I'm like I'm living my life every like I'm happy for that part as opposed to being fixated on like, oh my god Why does my nose feel stuffy and why you know, what does this mean? So there you go health anxiety and there's probably more questions about that. Oh, hopefully we've helped So our friend from Romania cat. Hey, Bill. How about drugs of choice while dealing with anxiety? He's asked this several times cat Right like alcohol smoking cigarettes take the edge off after a day bad anxiety habits mostly I've I've said this I'm brutal on that like don't why why I'm gonna understand people self-medicate It's the thing we're having lag again. There you go. You're back. I You can have a little bit editing. Yeah, yeah, we definitely have some lag from time to time Let's say We're good. We go ahead. You're all choppy. That's all right. All right, so So to answer cat that's an ASMR sound Oh, really? Yeah, you should start an ASMR vaping channel. You are not the first person that said that ASMR sound I don't know why I like that. We had a big discussion about ASMR while we're going for some reason that was Yeah, that's that that would be a sound So drugs of choice like self-medicating drugs of choice I prefer heroin I prefer heroin is crystal crystal mouth Yeah, yeah, it's all good Just don't get it from dodgy Frank off the corner, you know I think this question has come up before especially if there's medication involved like you do not want to mix alcohol and your benzos and I Don't know drugs of choice. I don't know how to answer that. It's those are safe. They're you're self-medicating They're safety behaviors. They're safety rituals. I have to smoke a cigarette to calm down These are none of those things are helping none Definitely not yeah, so if you feel like that's not to say like because I stopped drinking and I stopped smoking But it didn't make it didn't make any difference to my anxiety. That's all right, right? I don't know I did might be some some drug deals going down in the main streets of Yeah, yeah, it didn't make it like because I think a lot of people think that like I'll give up Caffeine is gonna cure my anxiety or I'll give up smoking. It's gonna cure my anxiety. No, it's just better for you Like why not like right, right? The healthy health take drugs. Don't take drugs. It's not a good idea. Yeah Just it's just good advice whether your anxious or not to not drink much not those things and not smoke But I think Recognizing that in an anxiety context if you need to go home and drink to calm down you're self-medicating Yeah, it's an it's an avoidance and escape behavior And it's actually making things worse for you and the same thing with cigarettes If you feel like every time usually you get anxious you have to have a cigarette Well, first of all, you're inhaling all that crap and that's not good for you and second of all again It's an avoidance or safety behavior Yeah, but I'm a fight. Yes get on the vape if you have to at least it's less tar and so I need to get like I need to get an affiliate like a vape affiliate Yeah, use the code Vape UK is the code today. Yes, but I think in the end the answer to that is like drugs You already know cat you already know what it is. You're asking already like you know that you're self-medicating You know, these are bad habits Although look smoking you I I understand I've never smoked But it is so I know so many people who cannot say anxious or not So I get I get it but just you know trying to engage in those safety behaviors I think they they don't help they're prolonging things those cravings that you have for the cigarettes will be the same cravings You have to reach for the blood pressure monitor or the yes Yeah, yeah principle again. Just that's true. No It satisfies. Well, there's a physical Dependence on on this on the nicotine to a certain I mean, I know it's not not a hard nobody winds up. Yeah, I mean, I didn't yeah Yeah, no, I didn't do any of that I just yeah Cuz I was off nicotine for a week like when it first died I didn't vape or anything. I just went cold turkey on it. And it's the same with the week Same with the weed like I was I was smoking weed for ten years every day for breakfast Wow lunch and Yeah, we died just weed Pleat like I just stopped cold turkey never touched it again. Nothing totally fine. Yeah. Yeah, so it can be well I wouldn't go that far. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No no issues with it Like I didn't even I didn't really think about it and that but I think for me it was more It was like a psychological reason for quitting like I had to quit because it was making me feel worse So that made it easier I guess I don't know. Yeah, it makes sense bad habits. You got to try and break them. It is what it is Yeah, and some could be really difficult. I get it just a physical dependency, but but the smoking thing is more of a habit I think I yeah, yeah, that's that's yeah, that's why I learned from it. I think so So let's talk about Muhammad, please advise on disturbing exit existential thoughts during recovery and Marines Asked the same question Okay, I I went through that for sure like when when I was scrambled eggs Existential meaning like what is the meaning of life and what is the point of all this? What are we doing here? Well, you know like and I don't even want to say some of the things because I know that people don't even want to hear them So there's one particular person. I know we'll listen that like don't say like there's one phrase What's the point there was it became a joke like don't say that now I'm gonna have to go think about like have an existential crisis for 23 minutes, you know, like right, right? Okay, yeah, but I think that's so normal like I went through a lot of that. I don't know if you ever experienced it. Yeah Not really Well, I put it to you this way I used to worry about it all the time like there were times when I was at my worst I would have like a lot of those eggs like whatever Existential crisis type fears that would send you a paddock You know, what's the point what you're what am I why am I here? Who am I blah blah blah? I would like, you know, we're all just that sort of stuff But what happened was as everything else got better those started to go away So I can still ponder those questions because they're questions that normal people. I think yeah, that that's the different Like I've had those thoughts before but I don't trust those it's not a crisis. It's just a question. No in my head Yeah, and we all we also confront those questions, you know It means like what am I why am I here? What's the point? What's what's this all about? It just doesn't have to turn into like fear and panic and anxiety So that's what I was gonna say like it doesn't worry me if I think that it doesn't worry me I just just yeah question. Yeah, and I would so strange is like at my worst. I would think You know those existential things They're unavoidable like we all we all face an unavoidable thing in our life We all know what it is But but I think like now that would send me into just a complete tailspin Just that thought and no, there's nothing I could do about this. There's nothing I could do about now It's like well, yeah, there's nothing I could do about it But all right like we're all seven billion of us know this and like when I were all crippled by it I think I know the reason is because like I'm going back to weed here But those are the kind of conversations used to have smoking weed So they were fun that was like let's go on a freaking journey a mind fuck. Yeah, yeah, like let's discuss this shit So maybe that's why it doesn't bother me now because I spent like 10 years just going off on those and it weren't a crisis It was like let's have a freaking laugh about it. It was fun. Yeah, right? So smoke smoke weed. That's the ego. So let's contradict you. We just said just start smoking coke For breakfast lunch and dinner, I'm so sorry But I think guys to answer the question about existential disturbing existential thoughts like almost every thought when you're when you're in that real sensitized Raw state and you're panicking all the time you're working on it. Just understand that if that thought Disturbs you it's okay. Don't judge it. Many thoughts will disturb you Try and move on the best you can you don't have to think about those things right now And as you get as things get better those thoughts can come and not be disturbing They could just be the same questions we all ask from time to time about life It'll be okay so, um Let's talk martin. Yeah, mark. I did. Yeah. Yeah I'd like you to discuss safety behaviors. How would they affect us good or bad? Never good, by the way I'll answer that already if you have health anxiety around your heart and are overweight and struggling to exercise Says that's mark Safety behaviors how they affect us good or bad always bad Yeah, always bad in the long run In the long run and they're not the safety behaviors aren't horrible things carrying around a bottle Look, I still look I bought a giant ridiculous like gallon of water to drink yesterday because I was thirsty And I didn't have water because yeah because you needed a drink right. I was just thirsty I usually have water with me now because I get thirsty so But it used to be that I needed that water like to feel like oh god if I don't have water I'm screwed like that was a panic safety thing Yeah, because we we sort of touched on it last week Remember when I went for the walk and I got to the car park and realized I'd forgot my water Yeah, so If that would if that was to cause you a problem then that is a safety behavior Whereas like I thought I thought to myself I forgot my water but it didn't make any difference like that's That's fine. I wanted water because I might need a drink. That's the only reason I mean We could go on forever listing safety behaviors like there's taking your phone checking stuff and yeah mints Like I still I always I always take mints with me wherever I go still me too No, me too because well because I just I always happen in the car But they don't serve a purpose other than like, uh, you know, I don't I just want to have peppermint breath because I just I'm always nervous about that. You know, it's never a problem. I'm just trying to be polite like so So Yeah, so I always have mints with me. But so most safety behaviors when I say they're bad. I don't mean they're horrible behaviors They're not and then if you just did them outside of the anxiety context, no one would ever think of you wouldn't even give them a second thought I like I like water and I usually have mints in my car. Okay, so what? Some people like to paint or color because they like to Other people, you know, have to run to the coloring book when they panic because they'll put it to you this way safety behavior is if you have behaviors or rituals that you Go to the minute you start to feel badly because you think they will let you back out of that bad feeling And that that's a safety behavior and we talk all the time about just allowing the bad feelings to come And you the only way to truly get through this is to go through those bad feelings without doing a damn thing So it's the only way to like actually on the long term be inoculated against that fear Like ah, here I am gonna panic. Oh, well, yeah, it'll be all in 10 minutes. It's fine So the safety behaviors I think are never they're never good You have to try to understand know what they are and then extinguish them as best you can one by one Which means facing your shed the the worst fear means facing your fear So here's a question because I often think about this like doing when you're starting out with your exposure stuff Watch your thoughts on your thoughts on like taking your water and having some safety Would you rather people get out with the few safeties than not get out at all? Yes That's a super good question. And I think the answer is sure I think To me, it's like the debate that people have about using medication like what if I use You know tranquilizer so I could start doing my exposure Uh, I think that bottle of water or mints or the rubber band on your wrist Whatever it is you use is certainly a better option than popping a xanax or a valium or What is something that ends in xam helprousal lamb or whatever you got? Um, because it won't take your symptoms away. Whereas the meds will take your symptoms away And then what are you exposed to you need to feel the symptoms But if it's a choice of sitting on your sofa or going out with the bottle of water go out with the bottle of water That's exactly right. And I think what will happen is you'll discover What I would say is bring the water bring the mints bring the rubber band bring your phone do all those things But you have to work on At first you're going to look at it as I must bring my phone because yeah, if I get in trouble I can call for help And and and you might succumb and call for help Yeah, and that's that's okay, but you have to understand like well I called for help and I didn't really need to call for help So the object of the game is bring those things with you and at first you'll see them as safety or escape patches But you have to bring them with you when you're walking out the door and say, okay I really don't need these. I'll bring them anyway, but just remind yourself These are not escape hatches because I don't need one I I Don't need to be saved but I'll bring these for now and then over time I think most of us will describe that like those fell off like I don't yeah Yeah, yeah, you just don't need my water. I mean my man's my pills You perhaps notice that you're not actually using the stuff like you'll go for a walk Go and not take a drink and then you'll get to the point where you forget to take it And that might trigger a bit of anxiety, but you'll still get through it Yeah, and then it just becomes like you don't need to take anything you want to take something correct So yeah, but I think by all means that's fine bring all that stuff with you or like it's okay Better to start with those things than to never start. I think yeah I'm good and they'll naturally start to fall off over time, right? So I think it's pretty normal Mark also asked about what if you have health anxiety around your heart and are overweight and struggling to exercise I mean, that's it's that's sort of its own thing I think there's a few questions on it exercise. I was in yeah back to that Okay, that's fine. Um, so we can come back to the exercise then So what about uh, Ben? Um One of the anxious men which is so funny when you miss bill and Ben. I did not understand the reference Yeah, he told uk tv Um seemed to get stressed very easily with my small children, especially at bedtime I'm carrying that stress into the next day. How can it become more relaxed with my kids without letting them get away with things? It's like a parenting question. Oh, then there are seven like yeah, let's see. Yeah, it stirred up some interest that one I see that I lose my temper so quickly. It's not good. It makes me feel worse Jolene I try to use my child and my parenting as a form of meditation. Jolene you rock. That's that's an excellent excellent thing Taking my time and thinking very good. Very good. I'll say something like tomorrow I'll be more present giving yourself a hard time Jolene answered the question. Jolene. Yeah, I've seen that. It was really really really good. Your answer is absolutely excellent. I think She totally nailed it and I would say I can't add to Jolene's thing. She's absolutely right. So number one understand that you are In a sensitized state that you're on a hair trigger that you're working on things But so many things trigger panic. You have a very low tolerance for stress You have a very low tolerance sometimes for any sort of stimulus at all And and certainly kids, especially little kids can be a huge stimulus. So just just understand like Expect that to happen. Don't judge it badly It's like this is just the way it is for now and as I work on my stuff I will get better at this again And I think just keep your focus. It's that stress thing that we were talking about in the beginning So when your kids are acting up and they're little and they're causing a ruckus You're trying to get them to bed and get pajamas on and do all that stuff and you're you're just freaking out Keep your focus on them Like be present with them, you know, what can I do to help sally sally? Who's named sally anymore? What can I do to help, you know, whoever my daughter, you know, get in the bath and get these jumps All the sally's you're listening, but it's a very that's an old name, right? You're always offending someone, aren't you? I am I am it's it's good. So the uh Yeah, focus on them the problem at hand. What are my kids doing right now? Not what are my kids doing that is making me feel so badly So look at it as a good practice of like maintaining your focus on the world And what's going on and what you need to engage in as opposed to like, oh, they're screaming again Let me turn my focus back to me me me me and I don't mean that in a mocking way But we we have to acknowledge that so much of this problem is because of me me me me And I and I don't mean selfish me me me like just it's all about me nobody thinks But it's how we act like how are these kids making me feel? Well, they're not making you they're you know, they're doing Right, they're doing how did this somehow become Like really when you get down to brass tacks because I've been there when I was at my worst my kids were little Like it was difficult and I I remembered thinking one night like man What how what am I doing like how did this become like my daughter was my younger daughter? I remember she had a big meltdown one night huge meltdown. She was like four, you know Like she was exhausted. It was a super long day. There was too much. That's what kids do So and I remember I ran out of the room and I was so like just amped up And I was feeling I was going to panic and I remember standing like stuck my head out the window to just like Get a breath of air and had to say to myself like what the hell am I doing like she has had a long day She's only four. She doesn't have like resiliency. She doesn't have coping skills yet She's learning how to be a human being this was her long day that has culminated in this In her being stressed and she's releasing the stress the way she knows how My job is to help her channel that teach her like comfort her like why is this about me? And I remember slamming the window shut and going back in and talking to her I'm like this is nothing to do with me. Why is it suddenly about me? So Does that make any sense does that resonate at all? Yeah, yeah, so it's nothing to do with me Yeah, yeah, so I've got the frigging issue Helping Help them like that that's and so look at it as an opportunity to maintain put your focus where it's supposed to be as opposed to like how I feel Yeah, and I'm saying that the mocking tone because that's the reality It's like I was always like, oh, how do I feel? How do I feel? How do I feel? Well, fuck that like it's not about how I feel There you go That's my answer to that And anything I don't I just message me from upstairs. Oh kids stress Nope Dressing me up. She's stressing Right now, you know what she's doing right now. She's doing a podcast about what do you do when your parents stress you out? Let's talk about heather heather our friend heather I have a question why dear people I have a question I have a query Why are we so scared of medicine working out trying new foods driving? But we're fine with drinking alcohol smoking vaping It's a super good question. It's a super good question Because we are well Why are we so scared of all those things because anything that might make you feel different when you are obsessed with how you feel Is going to be a problem. That's the short answer to that. Yeah, yeah If you are constantly focused on every Every moment on how you feel every change in your body every twitch every twinge every pain every sensation every tingle Every thought that goes in your head then anything that you ingest or do that might change that state is going to be scary to you Agree that's why we're afraid of that But why are we not scared of alcohol and smoking because we we use those things to knock down how we feel Yeah, we we don't associate those things with Like completely different to a medication like I don't know It's a it's a mad like the question I've never really thought about it because i'm scared of like I don't take ibuprofen. I don't know why heather said that I had a bit of a meltdown taking ibuprofen, but i'm vaping over here like i'm billy so like you know Because honestly where you're afraid of anything that you think might make you feel worse But you'll run toward the things that you think will make you feel better It's the safety. It's the safety thing. It's a safety thing you run toward safety and you hide from what you feel is not safe That that has got to be the thumbnail right there should we get one Carry on there's your thumbnail. So that's why I think I can usually do I can kill five milliliter tanks. Oh, wow. Okay. Heather can vape like crazy. Um No kidding right slow down on the vaping slow down on the vaping my friend So that's the short answer to that question. We run toward what we think is safety Even though it's wrong. Yeah, we run away from the things we feel are unsafe even though that's wrong. Yeah It's all about being obsessed with how you feel All right next Christina in sydney, um in australia. I'd like to know on average That's my aussie accent by the way. How long how long relative success takes cool mate Should be right Um, it would also be great to have an idea when most people consider themselves recovered. So basically how long like Sorry, I weren't listening. So Christina Oh, it's just everything just was just Accent you just coming up with all the I'm never from the top. Um, she's basically asking how long How long success takes relatively speaking like it would be great to have an idea when most people consider themselves recovered What defines recovered, you know, it's different for everybody blah blah blah and can someone be too far gone? No, the answer is no, you cannot be too far. Never Never never you can never be too far. I might never Know So, um No, you can't be too far gone Christina. Like there's no such thing That's the understanding that this an anxiety disorder is a neurosis like in that traditional like psychological sense Whereas the word it's not a psychosis. Like you're not mentally ill broken with reality Problems like yeah, just bad mental bad cognitive habits Nobody is too far gone nobody so and how when did you think like Like when did all right. So when did I think I was recovered for me? I would say I was living like 75 percent of like a normal life within Six months Last maybe Then the other 25 percent like now I would say yeah, I love 100 percent normal life like I do whatever I want It doesn't matter. Um, so when did I consider myself fully recovered when I no longer made decisions based on uh-oh There was never an uh-oh and never a What if I how am I going to feel when I do that? Is this going to be too hard? When I stopped questioning if I could do things that's what I knew Yeah, yeah, right So like you don't you don't question certain things anymore that you just do Right, it's true. I was going to talk about like small victories because I think it's sort of related to gem as common that's on there but it's like When you do stuff and like because wait, I don't know where I'm going with this That's okay going to the shop at first for me was a major thing and then yeah Like it escalated to walking around the castle grounds like being away from the car Going to Birmingham like to the blue shops stuff like that and then you forget about the little things that you Still in achieving and you yeah like when you start to question whether you're still moving forward But then you've just like I had my hair cut Friday and like that hasn't registered in my head as a little victory anymore because the victories have become bigger So you start you start to forget that those little things too are still victories Like I couldn't fucking do that six months ago So you need to like remember that Just because you're like you can do the stuff that's smaller now. That's easy That wasn't easy. That wasn't easy at one point. So it's still a victory I think that's something that people lose sight of it's like the victories have to become bigger and more elaborate when they don't really No, and I think also the concept of like well I have to get to this place called recovered like recovered isn't isn't it this is going to sound so cliche Recovered isn't like an actual destination. Like oh, I made it to this place called recovered Like sooner or later, you'll say like oh, I'm a hundred percent like I will I would tell anybody yes I'm a hundred percent recovered But like every day you're more recovered than the day before Yeah, yeah, like you the recovery is on a sliding scale And like it's a matter of degree to a certain extent so every day you are more recovered than the next day It's like trying to lose weight or gain weight Like if you go on a diet and you're doing well and you're exercising every day you weigh Maybe ounces less But you are thinner that day or you're lighter that day than you were the day before and so recovery is the same way You are recovering you are recovered So now like in terms of frame it in terms of those tasks like in terms of getting your haircut You're you're recovered. You just went and did it. You didn't even think of it There you go. No, it's horrible. I still wobbled like sitting in the chair. It's horrible Yeah But but you did it Yeah, same as it would have been six months ago if I'd have gone and done it like it was no different It's just my response to it is different like I didn't move I didn't start freaking and start questioning. How how am I going to get through this? I just sat there and got through this Yeah So so I would think to to relate that to what christine is asking and jemma was the next one too Like getting back up after you feel the failure like yeah, yeah You know like everything is ruined kind of thing. It's it's not a Like even though you felt the same way on friday getting your haircut as you used to six months ago You are still more recovered in relation to that task than you were Yeah, yeah Yeah, because you just you just did it and and you'll do it again You know and unfortunately that's not something you could do every day because you just don't have your hair doesn't grow that fast But every time I write don't need a haircut I'm gonna get the practice and now that When I was in that same boat like I can remember very it's you know, it's so funny that you bring that up so I was driving Yesterday the day before whatever just on a road that I drive on all the time and and that memory came up Driving down that road to go get my haircut like right. It was a huge issue And at the time I used to have to drive down this road to where I would used to get my haircut And I remember for some reason I popped on my head and I laughed and I remember Just shaking and well, you know do all that thing I have to get there now up here and I have to sit here and wait like oh god I'll just wait how long it's gonna take Now like It's not even a thing. I don't even think about it. Just go get my haircut. Yeah. It's crazy. So That's recovery. So that's the that's complete. I would say complete recovery But every day you've got more recovery than you did the day before so Even Christina, even if you're having just a hard time driving down the block The fact that you get in the car when you couldn't get in the car Two weeks ago. Yeah, it's recovery. So that's it. Yeah. Yeah, you're always recovering. It's fine How long did it take for me? Yeah six months to get to like 75 recovery And then the other stuff what took much longer because then I had to hit things that I just didn't need to do Yeah, I would have to manufacture like a reason to go a hundred miles away, which is a little bit inconvenient. So Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's that's how that worked out Hopefully that makes sense And does that answer jimmy's question too? Like everything is ruined. Everything is certainly not ruined. Yeah. No, it's not Yeah, it's your perception of the moment. I guess Yeah, yeah, and I think it's also not ruined. So think about a time when How's the best way to frame this? So let's say you're starting from square one to a certain extent like I can't even leave the house Or like it's crazy, but you're forced to you must go and do some task And you go and do it and you rush back home and you have a panic attack while you're out And you run home and you close the door and all you could think about is that was terrible. That was terrible I hate that. I hate that. I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that Then you just go back to hiding like Now You say, okay, I'm going to go shopping or whatever I need to do and you go out Maybe you have a panic attack over a really like anxious day Shakey like maybe it's hard you engage in your safety behaviors But you did it and and your thought process in that situation is like, okay This didn't go the way I want it to because I want to be able to do this You're not thinking let me just get home and hide anymore. So that is not failure. It's not To me like if you know like you did this thing and like oh god If you know that you did this thing and it didn't turn out the way you want You are already ahead of the game. Yeah Does that make any sense? Hello Because your your mindset is different Remember remember day when you would just like I just need to get this over with and get back home to my So I don't have to do it again If you're if you're knowing like well, I want this to be a certain way I would like to go to the supermarket now and be able to shop without going into a panic and well today I panicked I don't like that But I'm going to do it again. And I know what I did wrong You know, I think as long as you know what you did wrong You're able to confront that be honest with yourself and then say well, I'm going to do this again right away Try it again Practices again, then it's not a failure It's only a failure if you deem it a failure and decide I can't do this and just don't do it again for two months Then you then it's a failure. I will call it a failure Do you are busy street today, man? There's a lot going on so much activity There's some sort of party going on that you weren't invited to what's up with that There's going to be a hundred thousand people out there called salad. That's what I know It's a hundred thousand salads all converging. Yeah. Wow. It might be more common in the uk Good. They can protest outside your house Great, that's a shabby So let's move on. Hello, billy. I have a question. Lou. Hello Hey, Lou about a week ago. I went with the float with the panic attack less than only 30 seconds ever since then no panic attacks It's super nice However, four days ago I had been struggling to sleep at night because of these intense symptoms sharp pain on my arms and legs Blah blah blah warm tingly. I'm not even going to go through them Intense fear that my heart will give up or have stroke. It's hard to sleep. I still get no panic attacks It's just a fear. This is a long comment. I'm trying to get through it. I feel like with no panics I'm starting to move forward but with this intense symptoms and deprivation of sleep. It's making taking me step back Very strange. All right So lou is having an issue where she's feeling anxiety symptoms at night Okay, we had the we had the morning anxiety last week, didn't we right right? We did and so no lou is saying that You know, she's she figured out the floating thing and that's good. She hasn't had panic during the day for a while Which is is good. You've made us definitely made a step forward. So now just move that practice to the night. That's the answer You do the same thing with these sensations in this fear So you're describing lou you're describing this long list of things about how your arms get warm and tingly and And you're afraid of your heart and having a stroke and your heart giving out, but it isn't happening So now you practice at night Yeah, they're probably there's the same fears that she was having during the day But we have to get over them. So yeah same principles, but I think like sleep she's saying sleep deprivation like Right get more sleep So that's interesting Because like this week has been the first week back for the kids at school So I've been trying to get back into some kind of normal sleep So I've noticed like this week has been it has been a struggle Because I'm getting up at like 7 a.m. In the morning. I've been struggling to sleep So it's been hard and I've definitely felt different and I've noticed Like I've been feeling way more sensations anxiety-wise and that Okay But because of the sleep issue Well, I would I would imagine that that's what it is. I mean, it might not be it might be I might have a book Who knows but I'm not googling it Right, it doesn't matter. I know that which is smart I was so you're right Lou is saying that well, this is also interfering with her ability to sleep because it's happening But I think so just resign yourself to the fact that like, okay, you're gonna have to deal with this now at night And when you feel those sensations you go through the drill the same thing relax your body Slow down put your brain in neutral Put your focus where you want it to be as opposed to on your thoughts and sensations Put it on your breath. Just keep doing it again again again again again again And you have to learn to float through those sensations and those thoughts Even if they happen at 2 a.m. While you're in bed and maybe you're not going to sleep that might happen But just it is what it is like That's you and you'll make progress. So if you keep not reacting to those symptoms when they happen at night Sooner or later, you will not be afraid of them and when you feel them 30 seconds later you won't care and you'll roll over and go to bed So you might you might have to work on that at night for you know a week or two It's okay and then sleep when you can so I think the short answer to that is you do the same thing you would do any other time You get those symptoms and just understand that it might be a little disruptive to sleep right now Oh, well, don't make more of it than it has to be Makes sense Cool We've got a lag a little lag again No, don't worry about it. Who cares about it. We have an expert editor in the house here There's lag just insert like Cart chase scenes from old movies Let's let's talk about Jasmine says exercise intolerance how to build up fitness when exercises increase increases the fatigue so much Okay, so there's a follow-up that was different, but let's see so let's talk about jasmine so exercise intolerance It's a good question, but you've done videos on this before I actually have done two videos Yeah, yeah Two videos specifically addressing that and honestly, but jasmine's talking about fatigue. I think more than anything else So I think Yeah, yeah, that's that A lot of people This is the heart rate and it makes your breath brings on those sensations But I can relate to what she's saying about the feeling after exercise So I can go on like the elliptical for 10 minutes or whatever and I'm absolutely fine doing it But when I stop that's when I start freaking like my legs. That's when I'd Be conscious of how I feel and I'd come and sit on the sofa and Like just sitting on the sofa afterwards when you feel there's you got something in your eye I got something in my eye. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's all right. I thought that was a new exercise you'd brought No, no, actually, you know, I got something in my eye about a minute ago. So sorry. That was probably very obvious That's okay. Um, so yeah, it was just that feeling of just like being worn out after But then when you've got a reason to feel worn out like you should just you should feel good about that fatigue I guess like that would be the you've achieved something Well, and I think that's just an understanding of like reality is what it is So if you've been sedentary and and homebound and not getting out and not moving Then any little bit of exercise is going to be fatiguing. That's okay So you have to you know, how do you build up fitness when exercise increases the fatigue you exercise and then you rest Because you're tired. Yeah, right. Yeah, and that's how you do it So, you know one day you can walk on the treadmill for five minutes and the next day You might do six and the next day you might do seven or whatever and then like over time You accept that fatigue will be part of that deal. You don't overthink it You don't panic because of it. You float through it and you just keep going small increments Right small increments and it will matter. So like jasmine if you just keep doing it like you might feel badly because It's making you so tired But that's just because you're out of shape and just you can you know, it's okay people wind up at 600 pounds and lose You know 400 pounds over the course of two years and become fit it happens So like you could do it too, you know, so I've noticed because we were talking about the heavy bag last week Yeah, still in my kitchen, but it's leaning up against the door like I can I can go hit it every now and again But I've noticed my shoulders are fucked Yeah, I don't know what like I'm hitting it too hard or whatever I feel like I dislocate my shoulder every time I hit the damn thing Or you just you know, I just haven't I've never done it Right those are muscles that you're not normally taxing and now they are complaining at you So it's just like anything else. I mean you're trying to make your body adapt to a it's something that it's not used to And you'll always feel that adaptation. So It's totally normal jasmine what you're feeling is completely normal Just go slow and small increments and just keep repeating it and when you're tired rest. It's normal. It's okay It's all good So clay says when recovering is it better to participate? You've talked about this This is good in groups like this or to stay away from discussions On one hand, you don't want to avoid hearing about anxiety and panic. On the other hand participating just seems to be a safety behavior for some Hmm, it's really good. It's a good question. What's your take on this? My take on this is that you have to be super honest with yourself at all times Like brutally honest with yourself at all times like am I Am I here for social reasons? Which is people become friends and just enjoy the interaction totally cool. Am I here because I'm I have a specific question I'm trying to get answered. Am I here because it's a distraction? So ask yourself why you're participating in not just our group at any group Yeah, yeah Why are you really doing it? Is this a distraction? Is it just to kill time? Is it just is it social? Is it a safety behavior? Is it? And then you have to just act accordingly. So if you feel like if you're coming to seek reassurance Yeah, that's the thing Right. I think a lot of times people will come and like well, let me I'm feeling this thing Let me see if anybody else has done that and they either just ask they post and ask or they just read To try and find out if anybody's ever done it I think it's I think you have to use You have to just be honest with yourself And Don't use it as avoidance or safety or a shield or reassurance seeking. Does that make sense? Like yeah, yeah You know I can think one day one one thing one day and then think something else the next so yeah, yeah And I think that's pretty normal. I get that I too. I do get it like And then sometimes And you can take that one of two ways Yesterday and on how you feel at the time you can either be happy for them and like yeah, that's spurred me on Or you can think oh shit. I can't do that and it makes feel worse. So Every day is a different freaking response to the things that you see on there Yeah, I would think sometimes maybe a good strategy is I know you've done this from time to time just unplug for a little bit Yeah, yeah, you know unplug from whatever groups you're in try for a couple hours Try it for a day. Yeah. Yeah, or just maybe Yeah, maybe schedule some time in like if you want to if you want to do it Half an hour at the end of the day or something just go on Yep Read some stuff and help some people or whatever or I think You know and this talks to the you know the type different types of groups Like if it's an inspiring place to be if you're getting if you feel like if you get done Sometimes you get done you think like well like you said this that sucked. I didn't like reading about that But sometimes you get done and feel like oh now I feel like going out and taking a walk or doing something myself Um if it's a positive experience then you stay out of it If it's a negative experience definitely don't or try and turn it into a positive I think that's where what you said comes into it like be honest with yourself Why are you get why are you checking the group right now? Like what are you looking for you're looking for some motivation or you're looking for some sympathy or yeah, you know I mean, right you just checking in on your friends, you know So it's the same same as googling your symptoms and shit if you're going to go on the group for a purpose to try Like it's a safety thing then just don't just Step back and wait and wait Yep, I agree and and I think those reasons change over time Also, yeah, so in the very beginning you're going to use groups like this as reassurance and safety and avoidance That's normal and then over time you should start to use it for For ed to be educated and be motivated and inspired maybe inspire other people You see the progression somebody comes and just asks asks asks asks asks reads reads reads and then Suddenly a month or two later. They're answering other people. Hey, it's okay. You're gonna be okay I was I did this too like this natural progression. Just be aware. I think the best thing Yeah, don't let it become a safety behavior too much Jared Jared is Jared you're you spend a lot of time Jared asks is it good to remind yourself? Truthful tips like it's only adrenaline. It's not harmful. Don't care in order to truly not care So Jared struggles with this question constantly. Am I doing it right? How am I doing this right? Is this right? Is this right? Is this right? Here's the answer to this question Jared and Honestly, if you feel like you are further ahead today Then you were a month ago or a week ago or six months ago Then you're doing it right Exactly You're doing it right And if you feel like there are still obstacles that you are having a hard time overcoming Then adjust to be able to now tackle those things And then you'll be doing that right too. So The the pat answer is it good to remind yourself truthful tips. It's good to remind yourself those things when you're feeling good Like go through those exercises when you in the morning when you're having coffee, whatever it is Like, okay, let me let me remind myself. Let me go through my checklist here. It's only adrenaline. It's only I'm always okay It's not harmful. I have to not care of the float because when you're in the middle of of the shit when the shit hits You can't those thoughts don't work. Yeah. Yeah to a certain extent so Use those thoughts as practice When you're feeling good and then Then you get into neutral I don't care mode when you're feeling bad and it just takes time it just takes time Agree Yeah, it just takes time But if you feel like you're getting if you're doing things you weren't able to do if you're if you're out there If you're feeling less restricted then you're doing it right. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah Does that make sense? Yeah, 100% So robin next you have a lot of comments. There's a lot of comments We're on an over an hour already over over an hour. Okay. Yeah, here we go So we may have to do like time codes at this one. Yeah. Yeah Um, robin, please billy. I know this is difficult, but what do you do if you're in complete breakdown of your nervous system? Uh, is it more effective to be taken care of this as an inpatient or is it this is a this is a really hard question robin because All right, so how do I answer this question? Yeah, I know it's a different thing like nervous breakdown breakdown of the nervous system I'm going to talk to robin directly. That's fine. The This is like This exists on a continuum, right? So what would be a nervous breakdown for one person might not be for another And so there's no specific definition like medically of what a breakdown of your nervous system is and so We're we're talking about this as if it's like the ultimate extreme case of Of this disorder and in actuality it's kind of not It's kind of not so this is what happens when there's more than just this disorder, right? Yeah, like people with panic disorder and agoraphobia engineer their lives to live safely So they do not wind up in complete nervous breakdown That situation comes from yes this and just a pile of other things on top of it So robin wants to know do you do it in an inpatient outpatient inpatient? I will tell you for anybody that's watching is the last resort like being checked into a psychiatric into like a psychiatric ward at a hospital For those who have been there and feel free to chime in like you will understand that is not where you want to be because you don't belong there But if it's an outpatient program where you go every day and you participate in therapy sessions individual in group and their exercises That might be a good thing because sometimes people need structure like I must get up I must get dressed. I must go to this place. I will do these classes I will do these activities There's no good answer to that robin unfortunately It's an individual thing And if you feel like you're having a hard time doing it on your own at home Then then maybe an outpatient thing is where you want to be But but I know robin and I have spoken and like I know that you she doesn't want to be in an inpatient Where you are literally like admitted and you are staying there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah That's because it's not where any of us really need to be Mm-hmm So I don't know. Do you have anything to add to that one? It's a tough one Not a fucking thing. Yeah, our friend robin is in a different place than most of us And it's not yeah, and so it's related, but it's slightly different robin I think all I could say is you have to make the best decision that you think is right for you. There's no There's no definite answer I can give you and I I have I do not have direct experience with that either Yeah There's only a few left here, although more seem to be coming in I know so Donna Switching the what-ifs to a challenge we can feel great about overcoming This is like a different way. I guess So we talked we talked about that about health anxiety. So Donna's dealing with a serious health anxiety What if what if what if it's compelling her to check? You know check blood pressure check heart rate. Yeah, it's a compulsion. She's trying to overcome and it's a Um So you can take that as a challenge whatever it is we're going back to the beginning of the video like the first question Don't whatever it is. Yeah, don't check want to check. Don't check want to check don't check It's yeah, maybe a game of you can almost gamify it if it helps I guess turn into a challenge Like hey, I didn't you know, I got through this 17 times though. Yeah, something like that. It's not a bad thing If you switch it to a challenge that can be a positive thing Wow, okay, there's just a couple more and then we're gonna have to kill it because we're just gonna keep going and going Why uh jemma jemma victoria why a relapse or blip feels like a huge deal if you've been symptom-free for so long And how to deal with these better. Okay Is an easy one set set bags no such thing so You are judging jemma you're judging your success in the fact that you have been symptom-free That's the answer So like you truly need to be in a mindset where you are not in any way bothered or worried about those symptoms So if they come back who the fuck cares in plain English Like that is where you need to be so that tells me that in a lot of cases people who say that like I've had anxiety before but I got over it and now it's back and I don't know what to do Well, you got over it by running around it to a certain extent So usually that means that The way you got to symptom-free Wasn't really Yeah, in a way like you have still have some work to do So how to deal with them better jemma when the symptoms come back It's not a setback. This is an opportunity to deal with them Maybe more effectively than you did. Yeah. Yeah Which is to learn to just let them be there put your focus back on your breath float through them Let them come and do the worst thing you know how to do we've been through this over and over Do it that way this time Billy's run out of gas And your daughter's trapped upstairs I have had so many Recording where I have an easy like dizzy or just like Really? Yeah. Yeah Still get anybody get anybody tell I'm gonna have no idea. I'm talking to you and I have no idea. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no clip Fuck it. All right. Fuck it. Keep going man two more on another one just came in. This is crazy All right, we're gonna end it. We'll take rebecca, wendy and holly just chanted chanted to you really want to overcome with Goraphobia it has been around a long time It would be necessary to break down exposure into small steps and keep at it every day many times Total commitment is necessary. Yes, you are correct rebecca, but what if you are depressed also? This is difficult It would be really hard going if your life just revolved around exposure only and you may not want to get up in the morning Yeah, that's a real thing. So rebecca. I'm I'm sorry if you're feeling that way. That's not that's that's tough So yes many times every day over and over and over the fastest path out of the hole is is just Total commitment you make it your full-time job Okay, but When you you're just rushing 3d now come on, but when you get depressed It's a hard you lose your motivation So Yeah, so the tip that I would have you may not want to get up in the morning Always get up in the morning number one when you open your eyes put your feet on the floor get up brush your teeth Wash your face comb your hair do something to be human like make tea Try to read a book put on some music something like You cannot let it snowball to the point where you lose your motivation He's just buzzing you now just like mocking you So yeah, it could be a challenge But I think the more that you throw yourself into that task. I'm gonna I'm gonna keep working on my exposure I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna keep getting out I'm gonna challenge it like the beginning of depression is something that needs to be challenged Because if you just say I don't feel good. I'm just gonna lay in bed today. I'm just gonna lay in the sofa and feel bad That that stuff can snowball So rebecca my friend what I'm going to suggest that you do is even though you feel like not doing things You'd still have to do it anyway Pretend if you have to yeah, yeah Because that's the only way that you're gonna get the victories that are gonna hopefully lift you out of it Yeah, and like even if the victories have to be super small Like you and I talked about like just get up and do the laundry or something Something instead of just sitting around move do something. Yeah, like you just keep taking those just do that as much as you can It doesn't matter what it is So I think yeah, it can be difficult be difficult to maintain motivation when you feel that way But just you just gotta you just got to do it You just have to do your best to keep doing little things as much as possible Even if it's just things around the house clean the house organize the bookshelf You've been meaning to organize make a video you've been meaning to make sing a song something It doesn't matter anything You're not gonna sing are you? I was thinking about it Not today All right, wendy. I know I feel like now I'm just trying to brush through the month. I don't mean to do that Wendy asked about cbt how cbt therapy can help But okay, it's easy cbt therapy will help because if we're done correctly it will teach you how to not be afraid of anxiety Right, you'll you'll learn to not be afraid of what you think and how you feel And you'll do that through cognitive exercises that you can do when you're not in panic mode And through exposure that's designed to make you panic So you can learn to be that it's okay to panic and that you're still safe That's our cbt therapy helps cbt therapy helps by teaching you to feel what you're gonna feel and think what you're gonna think But not be afraid of it I think we discussed this before like it A lot of it depends on who is actually Delivering the cbt because I've had cbt three times and not really picked up much from it So we you know find somebody that actually deals with anxiety specifically Yes And I know that wendy actually wendy lives like 12 15 minutes from me. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, she's a fellow Um, so but I know and I hear it a lot from people in the uk the nhs cbt They've given me cbt, but then what you hear they did is not really cbt Yeah, yeah, well, I'm on the waiting list at the moment Yeah, but you're in a day you'd be in a different place, right? You're going to a different place. You're saying Yeah, well, I've because I've moved so I've gone from where I used to live to this place But this is where I first had cbt where I live now Yeah, all them years ago It makes sense But I know the the place that used to do the cbt. I drive past at the other week It's all boarded up and shut down and that's so like it's not a good sign Funding's going well over here. Hey, you know what here in the us Like you have to work to find somebody who specializes in anxiety and sort of behavioral therapy So it would be the same in the uk. I'm guessing not every counselor is trained in that So you're doing the best they can but wendy. That's how I will I will share my cbt journey experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah One of the best examples of how cbt works and what it does was dany in australia Mm-hmm She posted a video a while back if you if you search for dany d. A. And I her account She posts a lot, but but she posted a video a couple maybe a month or so ago I think she actually remember she flipped through her workbooks. She narrated like I did this I had to learn to do this She really took people through like this is what I did and so she literally was given cbt in a textbook form And and it was hugely successful for her So wendy, that's what it can do. You have to find the right therapist and I will add Because I think wendy is the person who asked about this Like she found a therapist who she felt might be a little too pushy Fuck that you want your cbt therapist should be pushy They are there like like if you wanted to learn to You know run 100 meter sprint in the in the olympics Your coach would push you hard and kick your ass to make you a better sprinter Well, that is what your therapist should do your therapist is there to push you not to be gentle and kind and like all of those things they're gonna She's there to teach you how to intentionally be uncomfortable. So yeah, yeah And I think what some people fall down with also and I think wendy would be okay with me saying this She was concerned because like she wanted to do the old like well Let me settle down after the holidays and like take and then then I'll start and the therapist was like No, you start now. Yeah, yeah You know and some people get put off by that So I said it like the first time I ever it might be the second time I ever had cbt We did like an exposure thing. I went out with a therapist walked into town And then the next week I didn't bother going because it was too hard Like that's the difference between me now and then like now would be like I know that that was the most valuable experience That a therapist has ever given me but I it was just like You weren't ready for that Yeah, you're right and so many people run into that when they run into cbt and they're like Okay, make me feel better and like it's not there to make you feel better It's in a way like I've got to do something Right, so it's either Usually the problem with cbt is the expectation is wrong like you're going to make my anxiety go away Which isn't the way that works first. They make you not afraid of it and then it goes away and and not understanding like Oh, this is actually I have to do hard things and I have to start doing them right now So I can't do things like well, let me just wait until the holidays are over and the kids are back to school And everything's a little more calm like no no no no no like avoidance no avoidance So, yeah, that's what seems you know, you're not just going to tell me how to stop it What right right like you teach me how to breathe so that when I won't ever have a panic attack again Like that's not what it does not what it does So you have work to do my friend like get at it and in months and a couple of months You'll be way ahead of the game if you're doing it. Trust me on this And the last one holly intrusive thoughts Okay, that's gonna have to be the last one Intrusive thoughts No, this no, that's it. I think we hit them all So how do you deal with intrusive thoughts? We're talking about that one too a lot like you deal with it by learning Meditation is a good skill Susan does the meditation and the mindfulness stuff like watch her videos see what she's talking about Thinking is a behavior too, right like anything else So cognition is a behavior. So you have to learn to put your yeah Put your brain in neutral and when you have that thought my way back when I was taught like a thought is just a thought It's not reality and I can choose to have another thought That's the basis of of dealing with intrusive thoughts Like oh, I just had this thought that I might have you know Some horrible disease or that this bad thing might happen if I leave my house. I'm gonna think about something else Yep. All right. I have that thought let it float out the other side of my head and put my focus somewhere else That's how you do it I don't know. Yeah, it's hard. It's really it's very dry. I know I didn't know what it is what it is Like there's no magic to intrusive thoughts. You just have to learn to acknowledge them Don't engage with them and put your focus somewhere else put your brain in neutral is better But if you have to replace the thought with a different thought think about anything think about like what you ate for dinner Whatever Yeah, it doesn't matter So there you go We've been at it a long time How long have we been going probably hour 20 one It's over. Yeah, just over an hour 20. I feel like I've just been sitting here for the last like 40 minutes I feel like I've did nothing but Yummy, yummy, yummy. I'm a yammer. You nailed it, mate. You nailed it. It's a lot of talking dude. Um, So there you go I don't know what else we got I don't know if anybody's hanging in this far, you know Of course they are We have to do the timecode thing at an hour 10. We talk about cdT Vaping So I think we're good anybody have a comment or pretty much done I think we're pretty much done The only thing I had to add was the small victory thing that we already discussed like Because I've been not really thinking about the smaller things that I've been doing this week Because I thought to myself like I haven't really done a lot this week But when I actually sit and think about like I've been out at my haircut Went and got fuel a couple of times Went to my local shop and because those things are becoming like the new norm Yes, you know, I mean that's that's the thing like They're still victories. That's huge Yeah, yeah, yeah, like those are becoming normal things now No couple of weeks of just doing that those will just be normal things. Yeah. Yeah Like they probably are we yeah, we went through the drive through the other night and it's like I'm Thinking about it. It's just it's crazy Right like that's not something You froze for a second. Yeah, so it's just like little like That's not something you would have considered doing the drive through Yeah, yeah, it's mad when I sit and think about it. Like if I probably went back and what The first one of these that we did I'm probably talking differently about things, isn't it? Oh Yeah, hugely different. Just like when we picked up back in like November or whatever it was we started doing these again Oh, yeah, you're like very very different. Like you're just relaxed. You're you're like positive. You're joking You're like talking about all the victories. Oh huge huge change Tremendous. So there you go. Let me ask a silly question Even though we even though we've been at it for so long we'll go a little bit longer And you can feel feel free to edit this out if you like but so like usually your dad is with you Mm-hmm Is that I'm which is great. I mean it's also that you spend time with your dad It's not a bad thing. So is that a thing like you feel like if he wasn't with you you wouldn't do those things It depends what it is Okay, depends what it is. Yeah, like nine times out of 10. I would rather have somebody with me at the moment It's that thing from earlier. It's the safety thing. Should you take your water or not? Yeah, yeah, yeah It's yeah, certainly better to go through the drive through with your dad than to not Like he doesn't come to the drive-thru in that like that was just me in the little Me and No, I know it's bigger than me To get ego anyway I went to the drive-thru not long on me out not long ago on me own Like I didn't make a video of it Didn't make a big song and dance about it because it was just like I'm just going to the drive-thru No kidding. Yeah, yeah, that's freaking awesome. The first time I've ever done that But it's just like yeah, whatever. Yeah, that's it. No big deal That's how you can gauge your progress when you just notice these that you start doing these other things like the school run in that I've done the first week back at the school run Like nothing Yeah, whatever. It's just what you do now That's great because I the only reason I asked is you mentioned the drive-thru and I think you had the video And you guys are just so funny That's something out of the window like that was great. Oh, shit. Yeah, because we went to the dog that was the drive-thru Yeah, I don't think it was the dog dog trust. Oh, that's what that was for some reason I thought you were in a drive-thru on the way home and you guys were just cracking jokes and it was just so The dog trust we just pulled out of the drug dog trust carpark and he wanted to speed he's gone out the window Maybe laugh so hard So great Oh, rabble rouser Yes, but that's another thing like last sunday went to the friggin dogs trust like 45 minute journey Got out of my car to walk around the astin martins that were parked up and yeah Just madness. No problem, right stuff. I wouldn't have considered doing yeah How long did you spend in there because I mean you're actually just kind of hanging around just you're literally Trying to be in there about 40 minutes here 40 minutes to an hour probably walking up and down I'm pretty impressive jobs are good. No dog though No, I also I won't gonna say anything but I can't get my old dog back either So I message the person that has the dog Yeah, and apparently like the dogs really settled in with her and the kids and their other dogs and that So I'm not gonna like it's been seven months. So yeah, yeah, I'm sure she's happy there. We'll leave it Yeah, yeah, but It's a good outing though the dogs trust will end on a sour note Yeah, I don't know. I might I don't know what to do whether to go back to the dog's trust Maybe rescue one or get a pup or what? I don't know. Yeah I might get a virtual dog So much easier You get a virtual dog very good All right, I think we have run our course have we done it If anybody's made it through the whole thing, there should be some sort of prize. So thanks. Yeah Yeah, massive thumbs up to you. Well done. Yeah drop a comment drop a comment right now if you're still here Yeah, exactly drop a comment and like if you have any other topic suggestions, send them on out And like yeah, subscribe to whatever channel you're watching and hit the notification bell I haven't uploaded any of them to mine yet I think I did last week's I'm so lazy with this So we'll see. All right, I think we're good man. You're the one recording. So you got to stop it. Oh, right Okay, you're gonna have to put down your vape pen long enough All right guys. Thanks. Thanks for hanging in there Peace peace out. See you on the next one. We'll see you next week. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. I'll be more talkative See you later