 Welcome to Exchange for Media. After a sharp decline of 21.5% in ad spends in 2020 due to the pandemic, the Indian ad industry is hoping to see recovery with ad investments expected to exceed 80 crore in 2021. One of the key starts of this recovery is expected to come to the IPL that starts in next few weeks. With me today is CEO of one of the leading media agencies that handle some of the key IPL sponsors including the title sponsor Vivo. Please welcome Mr. Naveen Khemka, CEO, Media for Media. Welcome to Exchange for Media, Naveen. Hi, thanks Nazia. Always good to be back on your show. Absolutely. I hope you are absolutely safe and the entire Exchange for Media team is safe. Yeah, yeah, we are safe although we are in hard with Mumbai and Mumbai is not currently doing too well. So, but as of now, yeah, we are fine. Fingers crossed. Please take care. Thanks, thanks. So, Naveen, we'll start with the IPL because that's one of the most hot topics right now. You have, you handle Vivo and your client missed one of one seasons despite being the title sponsor. So, we're assuming that it would make sense for Vivo to, you know, up their marketing to full throttle this year. So, what is the plan? If you can just give us a broader idea about what is in hold for Vivo this year. So, Nazia, I would say IPL is back and back in its normal avatar, right? IPL, as you know, always used to happen in the months of April, May. And last year because of the pandemic, obviously it was shifted in the month of October which is obviously while timed with the festival season. However, this year again, IPL is back in April and May and including Vivo, a lot of our clients, in fact, we are a very IPL heavy agency and we have a lot of clients who actually invest heavily on IPL because it really makes a lot of sense because it's season time. April again, as I said, it's the start of the financial year for most clients, Indian clients. And also a lot of global clients also, you know, they actually plan a lot of their launches around the IPL. So, given the fact that A, it's the beginning of the financial year and you have lost with funds and B, obviously a lot of launches are also planned around it. And C, I would say, it's also the summer category and the summer category brands are also very, very active on IPL given that the television viewerships also see a huge spike during this period. All these three factors put together obviously mean that given that IPL is back this year and in April and May and back in India, obviously not happening in UAE this year, which means that everybody is obviously looking at big plans and IPL plans are looking very robust and you will see a lot of our clients on IPL this year. So, you know, with all that India, China, I think that happened last year. So, Vivo is kind of making a comeback, right? So, is there anything in particular that is going to be different, you know, when we see Vivo back as a sponsor? No, I would say it's absolutely business as usual. I mean, given the pandemic, I know, and given the work from home scenario and we know how much technology and technology brands have seen upswing in India and everybody is in need for technology and technological instruments and mobile phone being one of them. And I think laptops is the other one, Wi-Fi connectivity is the other one. The 4G or the 5G speed is the other one. So, these are the various sectors that have really emerged post the pandemic and become almost like essential commodities, I would say. So, having said that, yeah, we are extremely buoyant and it is absolutely business as usual for us and we've seen some fantastic sales in the last four to six months during the, even after the pandemic was getting over, including the last IPL. So, we are very buoyant with the current launches that are planned. We will have a fantastic season ahead. So, we will expect some new launches from Vivo this season? Of course, of course. Also, as an expert, what is the value proposition you foresee for these brands when they launch in IPL and this IPL, after the success of IPL 2020, this IPL has a lot of expectations and 2020 has been a very dull year. So, if you could also talk about what are the other categories of clients from your agency, your clients, who will see in IPL this year? I would say, again, as I said, there are some categories which obviously make a lot of sense. Categories like tech categories, categories like mobile handsets, categories like, I would say, any summer category brand. So, beat any soft drink or beat any categories like fans or categories like e-commerce, telecom. They all make a lot of sense because they have a lot of campaigns planned and this is a very critical eight to 13 weeks for them, the period of April, May and June. So, therefore, all those categories I would see, you would see presence on IPL and IPL presence today is not only restricted to TV, it is obviously a large part of your ships also coming from Hotstar now. So, therefore, clients could choose, a brand could choose to be there on both, which is TV and Hotstar or to be there only on Hotstar also, given that the entry level cost on Hotstar, obviously are lower than as compared to television. So, yes, so we are planning a lot of campaigns across all our clients, all the categories I just mentioned, across, I would say, not only TV, but also Hotstar. In 2020, we saw some very new categories like education sector was actively spending on IPL, gaming was actively spending on IPL. So, any new category you see this year, emerging, which was not there in like... Yeah, that's a good observation. Actually, if you see whatever categories that are emerging now, or actually because of the pandemic, so beat gaming, beat erotic, beat healthcare, beat technology, beat laptops, beat wireless connectivity. It is all, all these categories actually have got a huge boost because of the pandemic and people have realized how important these things are in their lives going forward. And therefore everybody is investing behind it and everybody is obviously wanting to be ahead of the curve now. How much will IPL affect the worship of GEC? Particularly when news is an important genre right now, we have elections in five states. So, how as a media planner are you taking that call? Where IPL and there's GEC and there's news. So, I mean, if you could just take us through a... It's a debate that we've been having for the last 10, 12 years when IPL has been on right in India. And yes, some bit of GEC viewerships do go down during IPL, but GECs also offer a very exclusive audience. Therefore, the GEC audience actually builds on the IPL audience. So I would say yes, if there are brands and there are brands who are wanting to reach out to that audience, they do consider GEC channels also during when IPL is on. So therefore, I would say, yeah, depending on your audience, depending on what reach you're chasing, depending on your benchmarks, a good combination of IPL and GEC obviously makes sense. However, there are some brands who choose to be only on GEC even during IPL and there are some brands who choose to be only on IPL and not be on GEC during IPL. So yes, it's a choice that you make because you can't have everything in a media platform. How about news? Because we have elections in five states. You know, people are... This is the time when people do watch news, consume it more than, you know, average times. Of course, you know, also if you look at the news viewership, news viewership is actually spread throughout the day. And I think the one genre that really has absolutely very minimal impact on a... Because of IPL is actually news. Because the entire news viewership is spread throughout the day from morning to night. And the only one or two hours that could possibly get affected on news viewership is when the IPL live matches on. The other time, news is pretty much live 24 by 7 nowadays. So I would not be worried if I was a news channel. Given that they are absolutely right that there are so many very closely fought elections that are coming in in the next, obviously four to six weeks. And those states are so critical and we are seeing such heated action on the ground there. And so news is the flavor and I don't think it will go off at all. So, you know, coming to business in 2020, it was a difficult year for almost all of us on professional as well as personal front. So they were not too many pitches also last year. Most brands differ the pitching process. So do you think 2021 will seize more activity on that front? People, brands that had not come out and either retained their previous agencies or had postponed the process, they'll do it this year. Actually, I would agree on that Nazia because, you know, as MediaCom, we've had a fantastic 2020 as far as new business is concerned. I understand that was my next question that you perhaps managed, you still managed to develop businesses. Yes, of course, we had a fantastic year globally and in fact, the convergence report is just out and globally MediaCom was the number one agency on new business rankings. And as far as India is concerned, I think MediaCom India, we were top five for MediaCom globally. So we were amongst the top five markets as far as new business is concerned. If you look at our India performance at MediaCom, I mean, 2018, 19, 20, all the three years, we've added almost anything between 400 to 600 crores of net new business, which is net of any loss that we might have had in the last three years and 2020 we've actually added about 600 crores of new business. So I think our teams have done a fantastic job despite of working from home, despite of all the challenges, despite of huge issues that we've faced because of people remotely working, but teams have really got together and looked at every opportunity that has come the way and we've actually converted all our new business leads. Having said that- How did it change? What I was actually wanting to ask you in my next question was, how has the process changed and what kind of deliverables are they asking for? After the pandemic, because you have won a lot of clients in 2020 also. So if you could compare, what were the things they were looking at in 2019 and now in 2020, what were the kind of things they wanted from you as an agency? I would say it's becoming very, very result oriented. Every pitch that we get into, every conversation that we are having with clients, it's becoming extremely result oriented. I would say also it's, the conversation is also becoming very integrated. By integrated what I mean is that clients today are looking for holistic solutions because they know that the market is changing and the audience is changing. And because the market and the audience and the way they are consuming media is behaving and changing, it's very important for agency to actually come up and give them a very holistic, media neutral, integrated solution. And we've gone to client after client and said how we are not a traditional agency and how we are not a digital agency, but we are an integrated media agency. By integrated I mean the teams that work at MediaCom across all my offices are actually integrated teams who are possibly giving clients absolutely media neutral, screen neutral solutions as we speak. And that is a differentiation that I'm seeing on the table and the clients are telling us that yes, you are getting future ready while there are a lot of agencies who are still talking only digital. There are a lot of agencies which are only talking traditional and they actually have different departments within the agency which are not even speaking to each other who actually are going to clients with those solutions. I don't think that's going to work anymore. I think the future is... But most of the clients you won last year were digital clients, right? No, not really. I mean, there was a digital... Now you won the digital duties. No, so that was a digital specific pitch I would say. So therefore that's the reason why we actually won that business from a digital point of view. We not only won digital, we also won SEO there. We also won asset and tech. We also won the e-commerce business. So therefore, it is obviously culmination of a whole lot of levers on digital that we are able to obviously service that we're able to provide them. But however, if you look at any other business that we won, if you look at Hasbro, if you look at Uber, if you look at Octro, if you look at Aqualite, if you look at Duracell, if you look at Landscape, yeah, if you look at the Sony PlayStation, yeah. So I mean, any of these businesses that we've won, actually it's all integrated. It is all integrated. So, you know, last year, this time, we were all grappling with the first of its kind situation. We did an interview soon after the lockdown last year also. And we were all struggling to find ways to settle. But this year, now that we are in the middle of the second wave, particularly in Mumbai, even in Delhi, across India, places are increasing. How are you as an agency are preparing to tackle your business and plans? So pretty much I would say, yes, work from home has had its challenges with our teams and obviously the ways of working because I always keep telling everybody that media agency is actually implementing the business. And therefore, all the problems actually come in implementation and not in evaluation. So there is somebody who's evaluating the business and somebody who's implementing the businesses. Person who's implementing the business obviously will face the maximum challenges because that is where the entire work is happening. That is where the coordination is happening. So while I think the teams have not figured out a good way of doing it, we're also making sure that the teams are able to meet in case they want in some locations in their homes and are able to coordinate better. So that is one part of the story. Now going forward, what is happening is also today what I see is clients have also got very used to this idea and they're also realizing the fact that this is the way it's going to be for the next three to six months. So they've also adjusted and adapted to this entire change in the ways of working. And I must say that this entire adaptive way has really helped all of us. So with a lot of support from each of our clients, with a lot of support from my teams internally, we've been really able to do a seamless operation across all our clients. So you have still not started physical office in any of your cities? Not at all, not at all. As per guidelines, currently we are still working from home and we want all our people to be safe. The work is happening fine. There is no client which is complaining right now that there is a delay. While yes, I understand there could be some operational issues which might be happening because of work from home, but yes, work seems to be running smooth right now. So we are in no hurry. We want our people safe and we will only open up offices once we have the green signal from our WPP teams. Naveen, going by a global report, the ad marketplace in China proved to be amongst the most resilient in 2020 among major markets. Where would you place India on the resilience scale during the pandemic? You know, China... This is not only about media comm, I am talking in general. Yeah, you know, actually China, I would say again is... Again, you know, China actually was coming out of the pandemic for earlier, right? Okay. If you look at China, they actually came out of the pandemic by the end of first quarter and we actually got into the pandemic by the end of the first quarter last year. So from that point of view, the recovery... That's the biggest advantage. That's right. So from that point of view, if you look at it, the recovery, they had the entire nine months for recovery and we had only five to six months for recovery. Having said that, yes, India did decline, as you rightly mentioned, 21.5% as per our Group M DIY report. But we are expected to really bounce back. We are expected to go up to almost about 80,000 crores this year to about 23.5%. And that is a fantastic bounce back that we will see on the back of digital and television. Well, print was the biggest media that was impacted, but followed by TV, outdoor and cinema. But yes, the recovery will also be very sharp. So when Group M did this report, things had started to look much better. We were only having 300 to 400 cases in Bombay. Now that again, we are back to 2,000, 3,000 cases. Do you still believe that we'll be able to... This is not an optimistic number and we'll be able to be there? Yeah, actually, that's a very good question, Nazia. Let me tell you, if you read the reports and the newspapers, if you read all the economists points of view, if you read all the chief ministers point of view, if you read the prime minister's point of view, everybody has realized that today, another lockdown for India is not an option that any of us have. They know the pain that the lockdown caused to the Indian economy and the people of the country. And I don't think we can afford another lockdown. So clearly everybody has been asked to test, isolate, test, trace, isolate, test, trace, isolate. And obviously have smaller containment zones than have a national containment zone. The moment we're able to effectively do, containment zones in very small pockets or areas where the pandemic is spreading and leave the rest of the country for business as usual, with obviously their own precautionary measures, I would say we will be able to hit the numbers. Not a single client till now, even after the increase in the number of cases right now, have come back to us and said that we want to revise our plan. We want to just wait and watch. So everybody is extremely, extremely positive. They're extremely buoyant. And yes, the next three months, very, very critical for the economy, April, May, June. And I'm just fingers crossed that they pass on well for all of us because it's so critical for this industry to bounce back because it is really the consumer sentiment also. So people have kind of overcome that corona, brands particularly have overcome that corona fear. So they are now doing business as usual. Unlike last April when they just shut themselves completely. No, understand the last April and this April can't be compared. Last April, we were under a national lockdown. This April, possibly we are under a sporadic lockdown. So in a sporadic lockdown, it's okay. Businesses and brands adapt to their markets. It's not that you have to be totally shut down. Factories don't need to be shut down anymore. So one of the aspects that stood out during the pandemic was a need for closer working relationship between agencies and clients. In your view, did the agency-client relationship change during the pandemic? Oh yeah, I would say yes. If at all it became stronger and stronger because earlier getting a meeting organized would take weeks, right? To get out, you have to travel to a location to have a physical meeting, that was a meeting. And now, I mean, we are moving from Bombay to Delhi to Bangalore to Jaipur to Lucknow to Chandigarh in minutes. So yeah, so it's so seamless to connect with all our teams, all our clients. And therefore, I would say the work has become much more efficient and we are absolutely closer than before. How about the marketing budgets? Have they gone back to the pre-COVID times or they're still, we still see a factor? No, pretty much. I would say marketing budgets are back and in certain categories that we discussed earlier. In fact, the budgets are even looking up. They're very, very optimistic given the opportunities that the work from home environment, given the opportunities that the pandemic has thrown for some categories in India. It is absolutely buoyant and positive. However, there's still some categories like hospitality, travel, tourism, some luxury sectors are not really able to make a comeback the way they would have wanted to. So what kind of suggestions or recovery plans do you have for these brands? So it is wait and watch. I would say you can't force people to travel. You can't force people to take a luxury holiday. You can't force people to go on an international vacation when there are flights not available and when there are protocols are so tough. So I would say, yes, that sector is really impacted and it is wait and watch. And you, as I always say, when there is a storm, it's a storm for the industry. You don't fight the storm, you just let it pass. So this too shall pass. But any kind of different solutions that can be offered to them? I mean, are you looking at some kind of solutions, particularly if you can share a case study without naming the brand? So yeah, I'm saying you mentioned a couple of industries, right? So if you look at the airline industry, airline industry obviously wants to now focus on domestic travel, given that domestic travel is picking up almost 60, 70% pre-COVID levels, right? So it's back. So therefore we are obviously telling them to look at sectors which are performing well, give people reasons to fly, assure them of all the safety precautions that you've been taking and so on and so forth. So that's one part. If you look at the hospitality sector, people earlier would go for international vacations, would spend a lot of money on that and obviously that is not possible right now. So what we've told them, why don't you look at catchment areas which are 200, 300, 400 kilometers away from your house so people can go on driving holidays, people can go on holidays where they, yeah, so therefore we are looking at options for clients which are working well from a catchment area point of view and recommending them solutions. And yes, there is a huge amount of uptake that is happening in terms of luxury again, I would say it's just a matter of consumer sentiment. The moment the sentiment starts picking up and the moment the economy starts bouncing back, which I think it already has and the stock market is a very good indicator, right? And if you look at the way the stock market has rallied over the last four to five months is absolutely fantastic. And that is a good indicator of the confidence on the economy. So I would say, I would say yes, the luxury sector also just a matter of time. In fact, luxury housing I'm told is already bounced back when the demand for higher high-end larger homes is unprecedented in India now. Because people can work remotely, right? So they're doing that. Yeah, people have realized that in future if this is the new way of working then they would need a larger home. Everybody will need a room. Everybody will need the private space. They would need to be a work in an office together perhaps because you might be working forever two days in a week from home. So yes, so the demand for larger homes is going up. So Naveen, before we wrap up I just wanted to understand from you, there've been in 2020 there've been unavailability of measurement in several sectors. For instance, there was no IRS. So print any which ways was struggling a lot and then there was no way to measure the readership. Then it was similar for news genre, you know there's been no data for almost five months now. So how has this affected media planning? Yes, so I would say I wouldn't be worried about IRS. I understand IRS is not there. And however, as you know, last year was very tough year for print and the print sector almost saw decline of almost about 30 to 40% on the ad-ex on print. So there is historical data on IRS available which is very, very robust. And because IRS has been historically been available. So given that trend on IRS I think one could really predict what was happening and given that we had access to good circulation numbers from the print publications themselves we could actually do an extrapolation of what the readership could be and therefore what the go-to-market strategy could be. So that is as far as IRS concerns. News channels, yes, I agree, while they were reporting your ship on an aggregate level. So there were some other metrics that we were looking at on news channels. We were looking at some feedback from on-ground retailers, distributors from the clients and feedback from the local markets because you know also news is very locally led, right? There are a few national networks but there are also very strong local networks. You were taking feedback locally and we were using that as an input strategy for our plans and also looking at which are the networks to look at or which are the channels to look at and that worked really well for us. So I would say yes, when the data is not available from a granular point of view then you obviously look at some other mechanisms in terms of digital data, in terms of on-ground data in terms of data from the clients teams, you know, you send out a survey, you ask them what they've done. So and we've used some of these very interesting tools and mechanisms that I've told you to be able to predict and to be able to do some fantastic plans for our brands. Naveen, thank you so much for doing this interview for with us and you go, you know, bang on with the answer for every question and thank you so much and we wish you that you remain safe in your house and thank you again for doing this for us. Thank you Nazia, always a pleasure and I know you're in Bombay, so please take care and stay safe. Thanks Naveen, thanks.