 everybody tonight we're debating whether or not Noah's Ark has been found and we're starting right now or affirmative tonight namely Otangelo and Phillips who you see on your right in their opening statement thanks so much for being with us Otangelo and Phillip the floor is all yours. So I met Phillip Williams last year in April on Facebook and it was on the topic about Noah's Ark and I didn't hear about that in 2010 about the Chinese team and I was excited about that news but then soon a rumor came out that this was a fake that it was a staged Hoax perpetuated by the locals in order to make money with that finding and then I dropped it I didn't believe it anymore and when I met Phillip then I was excited to know that he actually did visit the site on Mount Adirat and so I started to research this and today I believe that what Phillip has seen there on Mount Adirat is effectively the remains of Noah's Ark and I have researched that in depth so I think that this is a very sound case but I think Phillip will be much better a host interlocutor to actually explain what he's seen there so I give the mic to Phillip. Phillip can you hear us? Yes yeah go ahead Phillip it's okay I was getting feedback from my speaker coming in from the side here um just to let you know yeah yeah can you hear me? I can hear you yes yeah go ahead okay all right uh well just briefly just to introduce myself uh I am Phillip Williams and I'm the founder of a new school of uh uh of um let me let me let me let me know see if I can knock that out okay uh but um uh I'm the founder of a new school of origins called it's not creation science so I know you're prepared to address creation science uh my school of origins is scripture science for example I'm I'm an old earth creationist but I'm also a worldwide flood advocate and my flood evidence is very different from the creation science so don't confuse that and that will be and but I actually traced a dispersion by the way I found worldwide archaeological evidence of the flood is actually they've been known for some time but these have been interpreted as religious burials and they're on all confidence but then I traced a second dispersion of mankind that RJ was talking about in another session from the ancient Near East and I actually found it was coming from a mountain in eastern turkey known as uh but popularly known as Mount Errat but I didn't believe the arc existed and I was not interested in these claims for the arc until I heard on abc news in 2010 a group that was had found something on top of Mount Errat that was matching my archaeological work so uh that as Antenna said became known as a it got positioned as a hoax but I became its defender and now the people most interested in this site are archaeologists and so we're looking forward to their report I cannot talk a lot about the archaeological work but we hope to we hope the archaeologists will be talking about it maybe within a year so that's all I can say about that but and then I became the first American together with an archaeological official that was with me to actually visit this site and I'll stop right there thank you very much we will kick it over to Jordan and RJ for their opening as well gentlemen thanks for being here as well the floor is all yours and want to let you know folks if it's your first time here consider hitting that subscribe button as we have many more epic debates coming up thanks so much Jordan and RJ the floor is all yours all right can you see my screen fantastic suppose someone tells you that they found an artifact from Atlantis in an undisclosed location they insist it's authentic and they send a video of them posing with it to the press they refuse to allow independent experts to examine it though and of the few that have come close they all say that it was almost certainly a forgery when challenged they loudly declared that you can't prove it's not from Atlantis should you believe them obviously you shouldn't those making the claim have the burden of proof no matter how much they might complain about it the claim being made today is that a wooden structure thousands of years old has been found on Mount Ararat further the structure is none other than Noah's Ark as the ones making the claim the burden of proof is on my interlocutors to prove that it is true perhaps today they'll rise to the challenge unfortunately to date the evidence we've all been presented as a collection of photographs and videos and some sparse carbon dating that undermines the structure's authenticity and loud proclamations that will gladly give us evidence later for belief today moreover creationists who are already convinced that Noah's Ark is a real thing and would who would be highly motivated to believe that these claims are true have all responded that at best this is not the Ark and at worst it's an outright fraud so our friend Philip went to the site around 2014 I believe but the origin of this particular alleged Ark discovery goes further back than that in 2010 at that time Noah's Ark ministries international or NAMI announced that they'd found a wooden structure high in the mountains of Ararat they shared some camera footage and said the structure that they believed was Noah's Ark had been carbon dated to 4,800 years old so let's start with that carbon dating the NAMI team never released the full story but they did send some results out to Dr. Andrew Snowing who's a creationist in an effort to get him on board with the fine so let's look at that they sent three samples to two different labs and a fourth sample to just one lab these numbers may be a bit confusing they all represent ages before present which means it's defined as before 1950 and you can also see each result has an error bar but it's easier to see for layman what's going on if you put it in a picture so I've made I put these numbers into a graph so as you can see the results from lab one and two are precise and in strong agreement with each other sample A was modern and they knew was modern because it showed clear evidence of nuclear weapons testing which means that the trees in question were alive during the 1950s sample B was from the late 18th century and sample C was in the 14th century none of these samples all allegedly from the wooden structure could have possibly been from Noah's day unless Noah was a time traveler of course the press release that we all got conveniently left out those three samples instead they focus entirely on the fourth sample sample D which was sent to a totally different lab this is where they got their 4,800 year age from in the lab report or the fragment that we got they reported a calendric age of 6,891 years before present plus or minus 4,467 years in other words they dated the wood somewhere in that yellow 9,000 year range so the test that the one they reported is a clear outlier from the other labs and there's obviously something very strange going on with it the huge error bar but that's the only one that they talked about so there's some open questions did lab 3 screw up their test results are they a reputable lab was there a methodological problem or maybe an issue at collection or did NAMI just not like the results of lab 1 and 2 and so they went to someone who'd tell them what they want to hear well we don't know but this is just the tip of the weirdness iceberg doctors patent and price both creationists were originally working with NAMI to validate their claim of finding the arc back in 2010 they now believe it to be a fraud perpetrated by a parachute it's his nickname the local guide possibly aided by NAMI here's some highlights of their accusations according to price and patent the group in question has been dishonest in the past for example just one among many examples of dishonesty NAMI posted a chunk of petrified wood you can see it on the left as being part of the discovery in 2008 on the right you can see patent and price examining that wood now you might be thinking well those two pieces look very different they have different colors and that's not your imagination or trick of the light in fact the original picture released by NAMI was doctor was altered in order to make it look more like wood it it wasn't wood at all of course it was volcanic tough but that's just one example among many that we could pull out eventually price and patent paid the guide parachute 100 grand to examine the site after flying to turkey they were did it around for a month and eventually after a bunch of excuses they weren't allowed to go see it and after that their relationship ended now price and patent left the NAMI team and they began investigating the claims to themselves they met with local workers who'd claimed to have built the site believing that it would be used as a movie set and those workers were not appreciated did not appreciate being made part of a lie those workers names have been withheld for their own safety however one person we do know is dr. Silly by Rakton and I'm sure I've butchered that name a big dear university who spent 25 years studying that specific region and he's on camera testifying that he was both aware of the fraud and was asked to help but refused to participate now to be fair NAMI and parachute hotly contest patent and prices version of events to hear them tell it those two are both bitter that name we found the arc and not them etc etc that's not clear why dr. Sally would lie on their behalf but that's really beside the point because there's an easy way that NAMI could have refuted these claims or that Philip could refute these claims or anybody could it's a simple method they could use to show once and for all that this site is legitimate that their carbon dating is consistent with this being known as arc and all the rest that method can be summed up in three words publish their results it's been over a decade since the original discovery the players have changed now now it's the southern evangelical seminary and they've sent the Williams out there and some unnamed archaeologists yet since 2010 one thing has stayed the same not one paper has been published in a single peer review journal no independent experts have been able to verify these details for themselves everyone involved seems to be going to great lengths to keep their finding secret all whilst assuring us that the papers will be published later perhaps when later eventually arrives we'll have something we're talking about until then NAMI, Parasute now Philip and on Tangelo they want to exchange a belief today for evidence later that gladly pay us Tuesday for a hamburger today well I don't accept that and neither should any of you and now it's our turn yes you have summarized this thing in great detail and I will just kind of reinforce the point first off my regular disclaimer that I always make on here nothing that we are talking about matters it's not going to change one bit of the physical evidence no scientists are paying attention to any of these issues we're just doing this for entertainment here on the YouTube and standing up for what's going on but the other aspect is that boy James you scheduled the wrong debate because Phil and Otangelo shouldn't be defending their position against Jordan and me they should be trying to defend their position with Carl Whelan and Andrew Snelling and Bob Enyard and Don Patton and Brian Thomas the various people at ICR and AIG and CMI who have been dumping on this whole concept for the last 10 or 15 years I put a link into the Andrew Snelling piece by the way Jordan that he put up which is really quite an extensive thing for an answers in depth article it's actually really in depth that's rather unusual for them to do it answers in depth anyway I put the link up to that so everyone can get to it some of the reaction to this Bob Enyard who is not the most credulous person in the world was channeling from Don Patton exposing a false claim of finding Noah's Ark that came in 2011 Brian Thomas in 2015 at ICR Noah's Ark discovery in quotes likely a sinking ship and that's when Batman is relatively short and then the other one to really show snark Carl Whelan at creation.com the Hong Kong Ark fiasco that is how they titled it there so the point is is that Williams's argument doesn't need to gain attraction in our side first he needs to gain attraction on their side the very people who should have been just really anxious to accept solid evidence for Noah's Ark are all uber skeptical of this and apart from Norman Geisler who in his dotage jumped on the bandwagon and decided that there was something there Geisler has trouble figuring out how old the earth is in older debates and dates all the way back into the 1980s at the Arkansas creationism trial so he's not exactly a solid reliable source on this and all of this is independent of whether or not there was ever a global flood if there was never a global flood we don't really need to hunt around for an Ark in any case whatsoever so to find such a consistent disagreement there was another one as well Rick Lancer who's a young earth creationist from the associates of biblical research he also was extremely concerned with this so people of deep faith are bothered by the behavior of the people that have been pushing this and the lack of scientific credibility even from their own framework what I hope we can do in a discussion of this is something that in the previous debate that Otangelo and Phil had with David Neff where he was alluding to his model on his ice age model of the flood I really would like to know more about that I tried to look as much as I could at his book that was on amazon.com but all of the excerpts from it's some 400 pages long but the excerpts are quite short we're all basically on theology nothing on geology or science so hopefully we can discuss the Indian subcontinent and the geology of there in relation to ice age evidence in relation to volcano evidence in relation to the Harappa culture and all the material about what does he think was going on with that geological slice and Otangelo you're I believe in South America any understanding you have about this model as you would be applying it to where you live Jordan wherever you are thinking about where that would apply and I of course have the Pacific Northwest with the Columbia Basalt and the Missoula floods and exotic terrains dating back hundreds of millions of years from volcanic terrains out in the ancient Pacific Ocean a huge amount of geology but the one thing we don't have here in Spokane is ice age because the glaciers never got this far south so I want to see more about what this model is and I'm hoping at our big back and forth we can really dive deep into that because this could be educational in air quotes and I reserve the time then we can just move on to the fun and games you bet thank you very much James unmute yourself all right thank you very much from our opposition team want to let you know folks our guests are linked in the description so we would highly encourage you if you'd like to hear more or read more you can click on their links which are below in the description box and that includes if you're listening via the modern data bait podcast folks as we were excited we have a modern data bait podcast now and if you're listening to this debate through that you can click on their links in the description box for that episode as well thanks so much gentlemen the floor is all yours well tell you a little I'll go first first of all I had no idea I was told I would be debating a few atheists yet I'm debating young earth creationists if you're not young earth creationists you're you're actually quoting as an authority's a so-called geologist who who has found human tracks he's famous for finding human tracks with dinosaurs now I mean first of all I really need great is are you are you fellows create a younger creationist no no no no no no that's all you don't try to play that card no that's all you either here no when you quote them as authorities you basically you're affirming them no one their expertise no I'm not I'm saying that that the the the the target audience that you have a tangelo as a younger creationist if you thrash I understand that I understand that but first of all let me tell you why the younger creationists are against this they on Mount Errat sits on top of their flood evidence now if this is Noah's Ark younger creationism goes and so they assert that the Mount Errat is a post flood volcano I'm surprised you don't know this now the other thing you're quoting you're quoting a a geologist Snelling who rejects radiocarbon dating the reason why he does not accept this is not because of the data but because according to his recalibration of radiocarbon dating it should be like if it's a flood it should be like 30 or 30 000 years in actual radiocarbon measurements so you're you're quoting you're you're quoting these creationists and you're making your case upon their authority no I'm not so I mean well you did can you show me in my presentation where I said that the date should be 30 000 years no you quoted Snelling's that's telling what did I say you give to this event I don't you I'm I'm I'm my dating is based on the pottery so very and the pottery can't be dated to yes the pottery date is that and what dates are you getting give us a time frame here it's it's in the third millennium bc it we're getting we we have there appears to be trans calcations or what's also known as cubic cure act or bet the Europe a pottery that's the pottery that I traced to this mountain and the poet of the the same kind of pottery appears to have been found on this now the archaeologists will be checking that out and they're excited about that this is something just astounding which are by the way you let me let me let me correct you you've made so many statements that you know are just wild you know you're getting them from the internet you know but archaeologists don't presume where I'm getting stuff from Phil well on the accusations who are you weren't making accusations but I think Jordan did um yes he made he had a slide presentation now first of all he's talking about Nami and I'm not Nami you know I made my own investigation independent to that in fact Nami is not much involved in this now the archaeologists I brought them there do you have any peer of you journals that you're slated to publish anytime yes they are you can find them in the 2018 Symposium on the matter at Noah's Ark oh where you where you made a presentation but that's often the case where people will present stuff I want to know where we can read your paper in an actual journal full length it's not a journal yet it's now they will be published in journals the archaeologists that are involved got a timeframe on that in the next 10 years or what well let me do you know why nothing's been done until this year give us give us a rationalization Phil in light the mountains been closed now arc searchers can can violate the laws but archaeologists cannot and that prevents you from writing a summary analysis of the data you've collected so far for people to inspect listen the the information that Nami published and gave violated antiquities laws and it was a problem they didn't know what they were doing from writing an analysis of what you claim to be the data field listen we cannot we cannot without this being under proper archaeological a Jesus under property archaeological license we cannot publish in fact there was a gentleman named Joel clink that tried to do this at a sore back in I think 2012 and it was it was taken out because it was not done under proper archaeologically the archaeological and antiquities rules are very very tight and that's the primary thing that's been delaying in fact but they're good it's good that we have this because this keeps this make sure that everything would be done well we're kind of stuck on that aspect I'd like to get on then to the applied model of the ice age then hold on I still got a couple questions on that how about it Jordan I brought up Nami I know you're not Nami but I brought them up because this is the same site right they they investigated it before and now you're investigating it right so if the site was a hoax then then it be a hoax now that's why the the accusations are relevant but more important to that this site was founded 2008 I understand it wasn't by you then an announcement was made in 2010 and then you go in 2014 and now it's 2021 and you're telling me well next year they'll be published it'll be published so what you're basically saying is you came on here on the modern day debates to debate the affirmative position that this is Noah's Ark and as evidence you provided nothing we're supposed to just take your word for it well I'm sorry that's not good enough what why should we take your word for it I'm not asking you to take my word for it I'll report what I did in fact I'll show a video of what I've been I can't in fact even the the discoverer and the people he learned a location of the site from they don't they've always believed this is Noah's Ark but it's time for the archaeologists to look at it so even no matter what I do it's not going to be relevant it's only going to be relevant when this is done under proper peer-reviewed archaeological oversight well I I agree yeah but then that begs the question so if I'm understanding you correctly you're saying you're not saying that that was confusing I'm sorry you're not saying that this is actually Noah's Ark is that correct uh right I'm saying I do believe it is but my my my way of actually investigating is to try to prove that it's not Noah's Ark so I've set up a testable procedure you know if you know here one of the ways that we can try to disprove this in fact that's how I went about investigating the flood I tried to disprove the flood that's a great methodology but you're I don't understand why we're here then why are we here talking about this if you're saying well I have no idea because I haven't done my investigation yet well why not come back when you've done your investigation like I don't understand we'll do that if you if you'd like to wait until next year or but we won't be coming back here I can tell you that you have the opportunity to to get a preview of some things if you if you want to do that but you know it'll be a it will be a different form you know and and you'll hear it you'll have an opportunity to see it okay so just so everyone in the audience is clear what you're saying is you don't have any actual evidence but we'll have evidence later trust me wait uh I witness testimony is is is evidence let me tell you cannot prove anything any historical matter you cannot prove that Julius Caesar existed oh really in fact there's far more evidence for Jesus Christ oh really for Julius Caesar that's interesting so what so what what account do we have from Jesus's own hands of his conquest of golf for example or what coins were meant to you really think Julius Caesar wrote to his own account of the cow yeah I mean yes well well how about the coins meant to what Julius Caesar's face on it there was some gigantic conspiracy in the first century of bc to invent Julius Caesar well actually now we need some philosophy sophisticated philosophers in here but they you know there is there is far more evidence you can uh maybe in the Roman era historian as well as American are we going to do the arc are we going to go into and I want to get back to your ice age model so what what are you are claiming what are you claiming is happening in the third millennium bc is it a local event is it a global event and what exactly are you saying is happening geologically it's a global event okay and what are you saying is happening well what what happens is uh the the earth empties its water and empties its water from where from below did you know there's more water there's more water under north america than there's enough water in the north america to build the and all the india where is this being displayed the flood evidence yeah have you ever heard of a geologist named william bucklin yeah that's way back in the 18th century early 19th century he found evidence the are you claiming that any any of the geology of bucklin's era is very impressive you're cutting off it's annoying i'm sorry we're gonna let him finish uh well let me tell you you're building on bucklins uh uh in in the in his contemporaries work they they developed a geological column are you familiar with the geological let's jump farther forward please tell me where i would see flood evidence in india what deposits what evidence uh it's it's it's all over at different parts of india of course it's such as what is off the higher levels there's not only in maybe some valleys in the himalayas where you see it it's mostly in the valleys um let let's can i take india with i mean egypt which is a little more familiar to everybody the place it doesn't have a flood legend okay yeah do that they do have a flood ledges no they don't um uh you're okay uh let's let's don't be distracted by these okay but you know most most uh uh of these ancient nations even before the time of christ had accounts of the flood no i know i know you believe that but they didn't i mean you you explicitly oh god jump in jordan but i really don't want to let the harappa go i'm just saying like even if let's let's just grant that they did let's just grant that ancient societies had flood legends is that really that surprising like people live near water that they have to people and i'm not a doctor but people die without the indus river flood plane which was prone to disastrous flooding there's some technical literature that i'm going to be citing in the in volume two of the rocks where there is a whole big section on on flood geology and all of that stuff uh and uh they know that the shifting in the monsoon cycles that are taking place uh in that period around 2200 bce uh is accounting for uh the decline of the harappa culture meanwhile over in the indus valley uh or in the tigress euphrates you add those catastrophic flooding that occurred all the time those are the places that that and the yang c rivers that flood catastrophically produce flood legends duh look look um uh okay your your your your opinion is it would be a minority in the in the science of anthropology incorrect tell me tell me who disagrees with that scenario in the scientific community archaeological or geological okay listen let's let's don't get distracted on this because we've got the art let me i'll just mention harappa was a free flood civilization that was actually ended by the flood that's why there is a script there in on the indus river that has never been deciphered and the reason it can't be deciphered is because it was terminated that language was terminated by the flood and there's also very few examples of it to go on that's another topic i just got true okay well i'm i'm glad you know all these rji yeah i know i love to have a lot of time where where in the harappa culture where in any of the paleontology and archaeology of the harappa are you claiming there is direct evidence of this alleged flood event well you know the standard view is a harappa culture was in about floods not necessarily no flood in in the standard view but it was a what about 21st century archaeologists can you kind of get caught up there listen i work i work with 21st century archaeologists i work with world-class archaeologists can you can you give us their names one thing i do want to mention is i understand how this is a relevant point but it is something that i think the audience i'm gonna get grilled if they say james you titled this as whether not noa's ark has been found and so okay well we said it didn't and and that that solves that problem well we can get back to that uh go ahead jordan the specific uh discovery here uh you said you're working with archaeologists on this and they're going to publish which archaeologists listen i took an official from are you familiar with american schools of oriental research i've known as a soul i've heard the name i'm not an archaeologist well they're the i'm not i think they're the primary archaeology american archaeological organization and they're preeminent throughout the world for the ancient near east for these cultures in the middle east right i actually took an official from that organization with me uh went on the 2014 and who was that her name was sheila bishop you can get on the asor's file and you can find out that she is a trustee and a honored very honored member she's just resigned from asor this year i think because she's going into a different phase also um i was a special invited guest with the executive committee of asor back in 2012 i think it was and uh the primary archaeologist though that's this overseeing this work his name is octay belly he is a professor emeritus fell out okay ta y b e l l i he is the most preeminent archaeologists involved with the uratu culture do you know what that is errat uh he was the professor emeritus of near eastern ancient near east at istanbul university and for several number of years he's been doing these seminars and publishing the results of of different aspects of the culture now the archaeologists don't they just don't they're not arch churches they look at things in context so they're they're looking at everything and what's their position on your hypothesis i need to be sticky stickler is someone is someone like maybe moving something around like a keyboard or squeezing a water bottle there's like some background yeah that's me i'm sorry okay got you yeah um well i listen octay belly is you know um he is the premier archaeologist of this part of the world what's his opinion of your hypothesis he thinks it's very promising he thinks it's probably the source of the traditions and i just found out today he hasn't written that up anywhere yes uh well let me see uh he's written many articles in his symposiums over the year if you check his particular point actually he's on nami's video saying that you know the one that they publish he's saying just that i'm sure we'll all want to contact him and clarify that point there you may do that if you can speak german and turkish when i had him here in charlotte ich spreche ein kind bisschen deutsch well good you're you'll you'll enjoy talking with shela bishops uh a view on your hypothesis i'm sorry shela bishops view on your hypothesis well you know um oh yes she thinks that this is likely in fact the ones that are making these claims that this is a hoax now that's something that you are the archaeologist just questioned the intelligence of anyone and where and where has she communicated this information in in writing she has it but maybe i'll i'll get her another person for us in the next in the next month or so yeah so listen if a person's eyewitness testimony is evidence if you're inclined to disbelieve it you can dismiss anything i have a purple dragon in my garage i saw it why don't you believe me it's in my eyewitness testimony evidence what you say i'm a liar like well show me show me some video now we're into the next step beyond eyewitness to empirical evidence that can be inspected and crosscheck that's what we're having problems with how dare you sir demand that i give you evidence how come my eyewitness testimony is good enough for you yeah because you're obviously just playing a game yeah that's what i'm saying like obviously i think i'm playing a game i'm saying that i would i i believe that you saw some wood under some ice or whatever i mean i saw the video so i'm not saying you're a liar i'm not saying i i believe you believe what you're saying okay what i'm saying is that that's great for you but your eyewitness testimony isn't enough to rationally believe it for anyone else i'm not asking that anyone to do that in fact that's why we're bringing the archaeologists in but no matter what the archaeologists find if everything if it looks like noise are if it smells like if it's the same size and everything it's still going to be um it's still evidence that can be rejected you can you can reject it if you like to reject it you can make up some plausible or implausible story and reject it that's just the nature of evidence okay so speaking of evidence do you think that the radiocarbon dating that was reported by nami and has leaked out on the internet do you accept those results or what's your opinion on those results well i know a little bit more about that than you do but um great then enlighten us yeah well you know i i would rather wait on the archaeologists the first one that was seen as the one that had the the 4800 bp dating uh and it was a big piece uh and then they said they needed more and they you know they all sent these other pieces but uh i any of the dating ended up in the time frame you want yeah the 4800 the big the 4800 is perfect yeah 4800 you notice okay oh yeah yeah um and but but as i said that's like 600 years before the decline of the harappa that's not exactly a catastrophe what the trees are you take some time to grow and then after they're grown you know they you know take some time and listen i'm not making any claims about the radiocarbon dating i have not made one claim about it well i put you on safe turf so i'm trying i'm i'm desperately digging for whatever evidence there is right and so and so like like this is a piece of evidence that has been presented not by you i understand that which is why i asked whether or not you think it's authentic maybe you reject the whole thing which case fine but it doesn't seem like you do because you seem to be referring to the 4800 years right so given that we got a date of 4800 years plus or minus like 4 000 what about the other two the the sample that is modern they probably are modern woods there probably are modern woods i mean uh we've got some explorers there and they grab wood woods up there used for um for campfires and in this place this thing has been visited many times there's pottery in here um but but let me mention if you want to do dating i i i told you listen to that you got you you must you must listen to what i say if you want to understand reason for having confidence in this site but i actually determined that the middle bronze age there is a great um cultural discontinuity between the early bronze age and the middle bronze age a lot has been written on this and it's that discontinuity which i've identified as the flood and it's the exact date of the biblical date of flood it's around 4300 uh bp there's different so in different archaeologists we get a bibliography of the technical literature that you draw on regarding that alleged discontinuity time frame yeah you'll find uh you'll find it in my book if you want well i can't see your book and well we can't do it can you make like a pdf file of it or of a doc file or something so that other people can see it because unless we can buy your book we can't tell well i guess we should buy it i might even send you but i'd be delighted to add that to my library and i would do a source analysis on it on an up evolution hour eventually yeah okay um let's let's what were we talking about nozark or something no you were so you were explaining that the the early dated radiocarbon samples were contamination or uh i don't know anything wrong with them yeah um i listen to me i dated it based on pottery okay there is a spread an unusual spread of pottery that happens in about the uh third fourth menu about the third millennium bc that the right before the flood and it's spreading all over the ancient newries is it has different names it's called curoraxes because it starts in the highlands of the curoraxes rivers those are the rivers that come out from Mount Ararat and the settlements are primarily in the highlands which is very interesting uh it's also called trans Caucasian it extends from Georgia which is part part of the ancient lands of ararat and extends down to Syria and to Jericho even some of it actually goes as far as Jericho and it's just an astounding sudden spread and then following this we get the middle bronze age and i'm i'm able to correlate this now a lot of work is currently being done by the archaeologists they see a great discontinuity about 2300 bc in fact it's called the uh well the 2300 bc discontinuity uh but um is that the only discontinuity in the record perfectly the flood let me stop here because i think rj's one is that the only discontinuity in the archaeological record just that one uh my mic's on he asked if you can hear me he asked um if that was the only discontinuity uh that is observed oh no there's discontinuity all over the world uh no no no i mean i that so there's but but all of it not dating necessarily to the same time frame that in fact if you look over a period of thousands of years people are moving all over the place cultures are changing pottery styles are changing interactions are going on over thousands of years what you need to do is move beyond simple pottery data to document that any of those discontinuities actually correlate with an actual flood that uniquely occurs at that time frame and so far we haven't heard diddly from you okay all right let's let's let's go with mom she flood evidence which is in the prehistoric world you you find these elaborate grays all over the world on the ever continent i'm talking about dating back to what's the neolithic or or the early bronze agey but it's all grays they're they're people lying they're of all ages they're lying in these grays they they look like houses they've got their pottery they've got their weapons they've got their dormants what you don't find is occupational sites all you have in that's why i'd like to see your documentation on that because going back for many thousands of years all across eurasia and other places as well as an enormous amount of stuff on occupational sites so that when my alarm bells are going off well you're assuming that they've got um uh are you familiar with the kurgans that go through uh russia and in eastern europe well those are nomadic tribesmen that's a different kettle of fish but there are well that's one way they explain that's one way they got well we know we know there are migratory people the point is you're claiming that there aren't settlements and settlement sites that are known in the in the fossil record archaeological record prior to this period and we've got tons of that all over the planet you do apparently the archaeologist don't i in 2015 i was in the republic of georgia and the head of the archaeological organization of uh the of georgia was saying you know studying these kurgans and said we find these kurgans but we cannot find occupational sites so that would be like saying that there that there wasn't a new york city because people in the dakotas didn't have settled cities no it's like saying we find people in new york city that are buried in these tombs that look like houses with all the everything they have but we can't find where none of that's all the way to your flood fill so i just want to try to tie this back to the actual site you said that you believe that this is Noah's ark because of your pottery dating so uh so it and when you say that i envision like you're seeing pottery from that time inside the alleged art side to side practice when i first heard george let me let me mention this when i first heard of this announcement you know i first of all i was just excited because i just finished all this work on on the flood and i traced it to this mountain but i said you know wouldn't it be wonderful if there's actually pottery in that structure this matching the curb it of the trans Caucasian and in fact i first saw that pottery in a in that paper that you quoted jordan of from uh Randall prices and don patents when they're they they actually published pictures of that pottery that parachuted showed them and they didn't recognize that they were looking at at the very thing that actually it's close as anything can possibly do prove that this is the actual Noah's ark okay so just to be clear uh the you found pottery from the time you think the flood is at this site and that is what persuades you that this is Noah's ark is that accurate uh you know that's one thing okay and so the pottery convinces you because you found it in the ark but the radiocarbon dating and i'm a nuclear engineer so i'm going to fasten on anything has to do with that uh but the radiocarbon dating that is not legitimate because people come in the ark and leave stuff all the time so absolutely so they so the stuff that doesn't fit the flood that's just to try to set people have put in there but the stuff that does fit that's authentic from 4 000 years ago so look look look we have people from some of the top radiocarbon laboratories in the world in fact that's the only kind that i'm gonna i'm inviting to the site and you give me their names so we can no i cannot they don't have to publish this is too sensitive but uh they they know how to do this and um and um you know that's that's for them to do that's not for me you know i i i'll wait on just like you you will wait on so i i will say i appreciate when someone you know hands it off to an expert or doesn't claim to have expertise in every field that's great you know so if the answer is i don't know because that's not my area that's a legitimate answer but we we are at a debate and you are the affirmative physician and it seems like every time we dig for evidence your answer is well i'll get it to you next week you know i'll hit you back you know let me hold a dollar i'll get you back next week like come on man like i i'm trying to find something to hang my hat on here you're just not giving me anything well if you don't understand pottery if you're not familiar with curbic curac and transculcation i can't give you anything but if you're an archaeologist that are familiar with them uh let me when i was talking with one of these laboratories now we don't speak in terms of Noah's art but we do speak in terms of the uh migrations and uh my summary with them i said if if this is curbic carac that's what we were talking these were experts on curbic carac i said we have got an exciting site if it's not curbic carac it's merely an interesting site so you're not mentioning the flood model to i i appreciate i appreciate i'm not an archaeologist i never claimed to be which is why i'm trying to get to some peer reviewed article so i can talk to the i can i can hear the experts you keep throwing out like i have these top tier experts i have these labs i have this and i have that and that's it it doesn't seem like you do like i i'm sorry please please listen to me the mountain's been closed until this year okay archaeologists are not going to be involved in in illegal still collected data before and what we're trying to do is it is not that data i'm sorry i'm sorry that you cannot i mean if i would get i would violate antiquities laws to publish if i took an artifact from that site i would violate antiquities well but are you telling me that literally no technical papers have been written on any of these topics by any archaeologist in peer reviewed literature since 2010 no they have in uh dr bellies and you can't cite that material the precision in relation to your hypothesis that not merely migrations were taking place in a region of the world where we know lots of migrations have been taking place over thousands of years for all sorts of reasons but that this uniquely relates to a hypothetical flood for which you have as yet offered no geological evidence listen i'm i'm not going to discuss i've told you that the archaeologists have got the survey underway the mountain is now open and will wait on that was not the question i was asking i know that but you're you're ignoring me okay and and and and if if you don't want to wait on that then fine okay but if you want if you want to have some if you want to answer some ask some questions about this based on my eyewitness account and um then i'm i'm glad to do this this is an opportunity i doubt you'll have this opportunity again well that's very possible uh so so at no point were you bringing up your flood hypothesis to the archaeologists you've been discussing as an explanation for these migrations oh i definitely do and which one of them agreed with you on it other than shila bishop and octay belly who we will be contacting to find out whether or not they affirm that position yeah oh sure well um that would that would well uh dr belly he just says this is like this in fact he's got a he's got an expedition to to survey it so why why wouldn't he it's an archaeological site he's an archaeologist the issue relates to whether or not he it's more than just him saying oh gosh this is an interesting archaeological site but that somehow this correlates with a global flood is he affirming that position listen the only person in the world who can explain this what looks like a big ship on top of Mount Arab but can explain it in connection with a flood to my knowledge is myself it's a different paradigm that i've worked on for about 30 years which is why we're trying to glean information from you right right and that's why you're here and so far it's like nailing jello to a wall listen what do you want to know what can i what can do you want to understand you want me to explain my paradigm i'd have to go back can you explain it in a sense or two for us all maybe i can okay in the early 19th century the archaeologists found a non stratified deposits above now that this is the same time they're discovering that there are no human remains in the fossils like the dinosaurs and this early fish and things like that so they're recognized then that the earth is is old but there is a there was a recent appeared to be a flood that the man who invented paymentology such as george curbie had described as a flood that was the only way they could explain these deposits because they were not stratified they were just jumbled up way beyond a couple sentences here okay don't know what you claim okay they call this the diluvian the the the oldest scientific uh uh journal in america called the american journals of science was founded on diluvian so where's the diluvia where you live all right the diluvian was charles lau where's the diluvial deposit the flood deposit the dates to right in my front yard i was looking at where you live it's a red clay in my yard full of stones okay and you got any geologists in the area that agree with you on that it's a i have a new paradigm so they have let me explain how that where is it i'll tell you there ain't no diluvial deposit will you let me explain let me explain this so you can understand it yeah please summarize i'm okay the diluvian was changed from one year to hundreds of thousands years now it's been pushed to about a couple million years by charles lau arbitrarily he ignored the fact that there was that's a cartoon version i disagree okay i'll just say then then it was later determined just to prevent any more mistakes i'm going to put you on mute rj just because uh it's really important that we we just want to let philip finish and then i promise we'll come right back to you well just just continuing uh then this uh then this period that was renamed the Pleistocene instead of the diluvian they decided uh that it was a frozen flood and they called it the ice age but they arbitrarily limited it to the arctic regions because they they would not have except the ice age if they had not found these glaciers and Antarctica and in Greenland so that's that's how they got rid of the flood but that had by the way there were human remains found in these in these deposits that were called the Pleistocene but they denied it because they didn't want to believe that there were human beings that were associated with this because somebody might claim that's the flood but once they had stretched this period out uh from one year to hundreds of thousands of years they accepted these results of human results being in there and in and instantly that created the antiquity of man just in time for Charles Darwin now my fair dime reversing your summary of your model that's not a model that's a odd summary of early 19th century geology by the way i put a mention in there uh martin Rudwick uh did a nice 2014 book he's written a ton of works on the history of geology it's a bit of a cartoon to recognize that but let's get back to that india example there is an ice age in india do you claim that occurred 2,300 years bc? yeah uh by the way i've i've where was india when that happened let me let me say you mentioned martin Rudwick uh yes he's done a masterful job outlining just what i said and uh i wanted him to take this in because what archaeologists have a problem with with their prehistoric chronology because it was determined from geology so that the geology is actually determined the early uh your your paleolithic or your early uh your early remains of early man and i asked martin if he would if he would care to take his work back to where it connects with archaeologists and he suggested that i do that but you you did mention i'd love to see the correspondence on that he may be he may have been somebody who was recommending that you go in to do that work because he didn't really want to have well he wanted the younger man to do it you know he he said that yeah but i'll get back to india's ice age tell us what you know about the ice age in india and where was india when that took place well it's when we're talking about the ice age in terms of the deposits we're talking about the Pleistocene no that's not a pleistocene ice age name me any geologists in the last hundred years that contends that's a pleistocene ice they don't do it now but i'm challenging their paradigm when do when do you think when do the regular geologists claim that ice age occurred in india they they they work on the standard paradigm and can you be more specific i know the answer to that question i want to know if you do i know well the problem is that james is what we've got here is two so um we're kind of close to the end and i think my side has been mostly the one lobbying the questions so do you have a question you'd like to throw at us just in fairness if i mean i have more questions i'd love to ask but i want to make sure you get a chance to ask questions too well um not really i mean i understand you're working from the standard paradigm you're working from the literature what's out there on the internet and it's really unfair to you you know to come without having um you know i'm coming from a completely different area and to really be able what you um we're talking about a paradigm shift a major paradigm shift and um and a paradigm is basically the way you interpret the evidence you'll take the same evidence and you'll interpret it a different way and um but i do mention the the scientific methodology i use is to try to disprove and to try to make predictions that might be easily falsified and the paradigm that i have is has makes powerful predictions and is and is far better than the standard paradigm so it it can be um that's that's the only way you can judge one paradigm against the other is how how simply does it explain the evidence and how testable or falsifiable it is and uh that's not i always say yeah i agree 100 um so since we're you know getting into stuff we agree on would you agree that claims require evidence so if someone's going to make a claim the burden is on them to prove that that claim is true is that something you'd agree with uh well the burden is really on everybody it's oh you're you're basically using Hume's argument and the Randall Proskhood is in this you know the the more astonishing the claim you know the greater the burden is or sure i mean you can use Sagan's formulation if you prefer yeah yeah yeah well fine um well sure i mean um you know if um if i mean i it's it's it tells me you know when archaeologists are involved in this i mean or why anybody would would believe that this would be falsified when the archaeologists are going to quickly disprove it if that's the case so i i'm i'm i think we may have moved past those hopes charges uh i hope we have because um that it's it's really yeah what hope springs eternal it's so so i'm what i'm trying to get at you know it seems we both agree that you know claims require evidence and it seems like we both agree that you should try to disprove claims it just seems like um throwing out there that this is Noah's Ark like like we've discovered it it's in Ararat it seems to me like it might be premature and the reason being sure if we haven't done this kind of investigation yet i'm always open to new evidence if if in a year or two the archaeologists publish in a peer review journal that this is definitely a boat and you know what it's Noah's but like i i change my mind they know but they can't do that no matter i mean that's not a all all they can do is publish the evidence they collect and and it's going to be open to different interpretations and some of some will be better than others and and and the way you determine these things is is everybody makes public argument and and the one that convinces the most people will convince the most people and um it's so um but but it seems like that that hasn't been done yet it no it has it okay so no basically it seems like the position everyone should be in is has Noah's Ark been found we don't know because we haven't seen the evidence yet that's that's good cool debate over gavel pounded it's the only debate in history where we can't do the conclusion yeah but i'm excited i'm excited this for the results that yeah we haven't heard anything from autangelo what is always in potted plant mode well of course i don't have the knowledge the technical knowledge it's not my expertise i'm i'm here because i met philip and i investigated the claims that it is a hoax i've spoken to um um uh don pattern and i have a record of a 90 minutes for a conversation with him and he has not been able to provide solid evidence that this is a hoax that it was a made-up structure on mount errat and what evidence were you looking for what evidence would you have accepted well photographs for example for people bringing up the wood up to the mountain testimonies whatever would be solid evidence they claimed that the wood was transported from the black sea to mount errat there is no evidence for this i talked also to sahin which which is someone which was also involved in that claim the hoax claim he also was not able to provide whatever would be considered solid evidence that this was a made-up site on the mountain so the major players here which have brought up this hoax claim which i has contacted they were not able to actually provide solid evidence to back up the claim so just to be clear just so there's no confusion i'm not making the claim this is in fact a hoax because i'm not in a position to assess that i'm simply saying that people that have been in the area and associated with have laid these claims out which should i think to most reasonable people kind of raise a flag doesn't mean that it is a hoax but it means that um we should be more cautious you know we we should demand more evidence to believe that that you know this is genuine because it's a big claim right so uh but it sounds like we won't get that for another year or two until or three or four or however long it takes to i would say if if those sources which brought up that claim in 2010 would have actually rather than here say solid evidence then this would be a settled issue but i think based on the fact that the accusers do not have solid evidence to back up what they are claiming so that is an open issue yeah well i mean i think the best we can say is that um we don't know uh because it no they uh none of the accuser would ever agree to meet with me or with parachute what does that tell you i mean not a whole lot if and i don't want to get in the psych analysis i don't know who these i've never met any of these guys yeah the hissy fit world of creationist loggerheads we just sit back and watch yeah like i mean i don't know man i don't know i don't know that it's a hoax i'm just saying that these are the signs of things these are the kind of of tells you'd see if a if there's something weird going on yeah yeah you know normally you don't care reports from rival art from rivals and if they do they they would never identify their source for the claim of nowhere they base this on anonymous source now that really violates general journalistic ethics and i the the the newspaper that broke the story the hoax hoax was christian science monitor and i took the editor of the christian to my science monitor to task for this and he he could well we're not going to cover this anymore even though he he covered it originally with the editor of the skeptical inquire inquire did the the diverse reports but i said why why are you breaking a story of such a serious charge based on anonymous charges and and really so everybody has been doing this based on and that that's an ethics violation there was one under by the way what there was one source that at least that was identified dr sally and i'm going to butcher his name so i'm not even gonna try but dr sally from mcdean university who i checked he is a real person i have no idea who he is uh but he i did see him on tape say explicitly that he was aware of this hoax he was asked to be involved and he declined now maybe he's lying i don't know the guy that's definitely not an honor i think i i think we can find a whole area of agreement on the entire panel that i would recommend that phil right a proper scholarly piece summarizing and defending his positions and dealing with the fraud claims and all the rest that answers in genesis or cmi or icr should absolutely positively publish it and whatever responses they want to put in so everybody can see this debate going on up to date in 2021 not relying on stuff that's five years old and more listen i don't need to do that the archaeologists will be doing that well i guess they don't get involved involved they don't get involved in things that are that are illegal or you know that's not the point that's you're skipping the point you are people are accusing you of defending a thing that's that's very dicey you insist that it's not dicey that as a scholarly matter the fact that you're all the material that we can find on it is at the little corners of the internet rather than in the various journals even the archaeological journals there could be ways to deal with this issue controversies have been dealt with before in these areas including stuff on creationist issues where uh icr and aig throw brick bats at each other on natural selection back and forth in their various journals the idea that that this would not be a juicy topic to discuss uh i can say and i bet jordan will agree with me boy we'd like to see that and have these points clarified defend your positions if the archaeologists publish in a peer review journal i will happily concede that it's not a hoax yeah well apart from the peer reviewed archaeology a picture is worth a thousand words and so if if my little video of the climb which is my words and my my pictures i don't know did are we going to show that if that does it that's that's that's that's my testimony i was expecting that we show we show that in our introduction so if there is time that oh tangelo i put the link we do have your previous debate there you show that entire video in the debate with david neff so i put that link up i mean live chat so anybody can go and see it full length because you showed it then if i they only took four minutes for their opening and so if they want to play their video i personally don't have any objection i'm open to that okay i'll agree to that if i may say a couple sentences about the ice age in india first uh-huh go ahead i'd love to hear the india is not play ice to scene it dates from the solarium couple hundred million years ago india was not in the northern hemisphere at the time it was parked down in the supercontinent next to antarctica and south america and australia the ice age went from what is now the southern tip of india northward which is why catastrophes like velikovsky we're making a big deal out of it in the pre-tech plate tectonic days back in the 1950s it has been resolved there are no play ice to scene ice ages anywhere in the indian supercontinent which in the intervening hundreds of millions of years had moved northward across the hot spot where new zealand is and then furthermore across the seychelles islands hot spot which it was at the time of the kt mass extinction and then slammed into uh the uh north american continent so um if at some point you wish to present any actual geological evidence for a play ice to scene glaciation don't expect your paradigm shift that you're wanting to convince any of the geologists no no no that's i'm i'm i have nothing to say one way or the other on that okay uh can i share the screen uh you bet okay all right let's uh let me uh let's just see it all right we can see it crystal clear is there supposed to be sound i'm sorry is there supposed to be sound yes oh we're in my end gotcha we what what we can do is uh we i would just pause the video although with captions that it shouldn't be a problem because as i recall from seeing it before it was basically like a musical background and the captions were the basic info i'm sorry um okay if you're okay with it you can keep you can press play yeah you got it it's got millions of views and they're making money and some ads so our panels are cool too so james should have a handy audio track that he can put up to cover material like that well the actual uh yeah the actual video has a sweet audio track yeah i remember it was it was a perfectly pleasant background music god but there was no narration if you uh if there is any sort of narration like feel free the the audience can still hear you guys fill up if you want to add anything as you as you go through it yeah yeah these are my are my but now do you see these marks uh like the black substance that's on the walls that you can see in my behind me i've got a picture of the same site the wall is black but the interior boards are brown but some of that pitch has by the way see that a board there is i think it's a cage but it's spaced about right it seems that the first deck has collapsed and a lot of material is just laying everywhere on the floor by the way i have counted in all these videos i've taken screenshots and there are over 150 different big uh uh wooden structures and wooden planks there so it's a it's a huge amount of wood up there that that's what i'm is an ample of a cage post oh that's my interpretation now these rings are very unusual they're evenly spaced like a different kind of growing season by the way this appears to be the most the massive amount of organic preservation from um this period of history the early bronze age so it's a window on what things were like that that nothing else would preserve because this has been frozen and preserved that's an example of the wooden pegs or the nails that's holding this structure together about every 18 inches and is common throughout the structure and they are handcrafted even though at first glance some of this wood looks like modern wood but we've never seen any wood from the age in which the pyramids were built uh the boats that are in the uh kufu's pyramid that would you accept the boats that are under there and they're very and they're similarities see the even rings there and the Egyptians neglected to notice the flood taking place while they were building pyramids i think we can all agree that we look forward to the time when a proper archaeological analysis of this site is presented for everybody to see publicly and i think we can all be in 100 percent agreement on our urging that what's the the thing on the left there the middle left if you don't mind my asking i don't want to step on your video it's just curious the one with the arrow um yeah the circle but kind of like flat like a like a plywood or something i don't know i was just curious i guess we'll find out the the uh pyramid literature well thank you very there is better than uh uh acreage this is a fine time to jump into the q and a so i want to say thanks for your questions folks our guests are linked in the description and also folks i forgot to mention earlier we are thrilled about this upcoming debate in may in particular you'll see at the bottom right of your screen a debate on bigfoot whether or not there is evidence for bigfoot that'll be a two on two we're really excited about it i'm rooting for gigantopithecus it should be a juicy one and so folks you don't want to miss that one hit that subscribe button and that notification bell and that way you can enjoy that debate live we are going to jump into these questions so thank you very much folks for your questions sigma any says stoked thank you very much sigma any glad you are a decepticons forever says to cover the 8498 miles long 16 meter per hour not stopping for food or water it would take a giant tortoise six years six years to get to the Galapagos from mount errat i think they're trying to otangelo there i think they're trying to offer an objection to the flood narrative from genesis namely saying hey a tortoise just there's no chance that they could get from mount errat to the galapagos this is a big issue and i think the major young earth creationist organizations they have tried to give compelling answers to this um i've not found a very compelling answer so it is an open question i asked philip about this and he said probably um the the level of the oceans what wasn't that high that it is today so there were probably land breaches where they could have traversed to go to australia or so but um i agree it is not an easy answer to otangelo we are in agreement pork popped the champagne corks biogeography is a terrible problem for them i'll go further they can never account for it i've got in my book i cover these historically known uh floating islands uh where's my camera here uh that that that were they're actually recorded as being off the coast of it of africa and and it's interesting that the that the wildlife in south america seems to be climbers cats snakes llamas the native by the way there used to be horses and camels in the americas but um but there there was a big shift uh you might be familiar with the megafauna extinction such that with none of that was flooded though was it well in my paradigmity is it is the floods you're trying you're going to cram all of that geology into 4500 years questions i hate to do this oh yeah yeah go yeah go ahead jayden this one coming in from sigma any says why are there no kangaroo fossils considering the necessarily massive migration over water or not to australia and why did they migrate there alone my answer this is obviously uh directed by the same zoologies who actually made these animals and created these animals so and actually there's there's lots of ways to just you know clever ways to solve this or even supernatural ways the the in the the account in the bible this was not a natural occurrence this was a supernatural occurrences but uh there was a change on every continent of the of the megafauna between the what's called the ice age of the Pleistocene era whether it was ice age whether it was glacier covered or not and and coming after that so there is there is evidence that that you know that the animals change well mainly because humans and climate change caused a lot of extinction there's not been a spectacular amount of speciation events in the uh post ice age period and your paradigm ain't ever going to account for that uh phil it does wonderfully it does wonderfully we await your right yeah this was this was really climate change that that there was big climate change occurred and by the way in my paradigm the world before the flood was actually colder so the animals are larger oh really the dinosaurs really did a cold climate we're gonna listen i'm not i'm not a younger creations please we i don't think we're going to find any dinosaurs this is not you know i like kean ham but this is not his his paradigm so why are you leaving out the dinosaurs why do you why are you concerned with kangaroos and not dinosaurs the dinosaurs with birds right well the dinosaurs went aboard the ark with is with the birds do you claim that yes i'm not a quick please listen to me i'm not a creationist i'm a scripture sat that's a new school whoa whoa whoa whoa you claimed that we're living dinosaurs at the time of noah that were put on the ark no i'm saying no okay he's saying that the that he dinosaurs were birds he i think i think i know tangelo would you like to venture your opinion on this i have no opinion on this juicy and i see a little mark of curiosity mark drisdale in the chat mark recently reached out to for an epic rematch as uh we were excited about a potential debate with one of mark's old rivals so that may happen in may good to see you mark but bubble gum gun says to admit the ark existed is to admit god committed genocide to exterminate the creatures created by other gods or unicorns or fawns or dragons etc i want that one listen if you google up bronze age violence or a neolithic violence you will see the bible is telling the truth when it when it says there was tremendous violence all over the cities are fortified many many of these skeletons from this era show evidence of violence it was a very very violent world in fact drowning almost drowned several times is actually the most peaceful way of passing so it was an act of mercy to bring this anti-demolivian world god just unmake people so what has to murder them yeah misplaced concreteness phil well this listen he he he he said listen if you don't listen to me you'll get in trouble so they rebelled and i'm in trouble if i can just i don't want to take too much time so you got a bunch of questions it seems to me that if we have an almighty all powerful god and he for some reason wanted to kill every man woman and child on the planet except for one small family i mean he can just stand on some right snap their fingers i mean what why the whole drama just do it just painless like i require a god yeah anyway well um actually it's interesting the the scriptures the god of the bible he he acknowledges the regular ordinary processes in fact if there weren't these ordinary processes there wouldn't be no such a thing it's miracle if everything was you know just fantasy make it up as you go along there you know it would be a different world than what science could study or what the bible actually teaches so the the the scriptures teach a regular order a right order but it does it doesn't god did not make us his robots so if if we want to rebel we can rebel by the way there's a second judgment that comes in fact the early christians used to flood as a type of the second judgment when he does bring the world to an end a second time and that that that will also make a great change in the world and then the evil then the evil is taken care of people it's justice it's based on justice this one coming in from sigma any says otangelo why or which do you consider more compelling evidence for the theist position the arc data namely the kind of case that was made today or the thoroughly debunked shroud of turin well i hope that we will have soon a debate on the shroud of turin i don't think that the radiocarbon dating from 1988 is a conclusive evidence that the shroud is not from the first century so juicy and ferran salas good to see you says the bible says the flood happened therefore the flood happened because the bible says so they're claiming that you're using philip i think they're trying to press you trying to say that you're using argumentum at populum circular reasoning um i really when i started my investigation because i was thoroughly scientific trained and historically trained like rj i but i had reason for believing you know was i won't talk about that right now and and i wanted to find out where did where did we go wrong but i didn't i wasn't sure because the scientific evidence seemed to be so compelling that there was no flood and so i made a search instead of geology like the creation issues i said you know the best evidence should be found in archaeology so i made the first ever archaeological search for for noise flood and i published it and i did the migrations rj if you actually get the that's why you need a hard copy yeah i would be delighted thank you if you send me one yeah you email me your address and i'll get it out rjdownard at aol.com yeah i can i have a copy i can send it to you yeah i mean your your snail your snail mail address if you want a hard copy which i want you to have oh oh yeah oh yeah no you'll just email that to me you got it in this next one thank you very much for your question this one coming in from jeff cordell says oh thanks for your kind words it says thank you for hosting premium content i'm glad to finally be able to join in on the fun thanks so much jeff for being with us we appreciate your encouragement that means a lot and merlin72001 says phil claiming he'll get them the evidence later is no different than saying let's see let's see they say i don't believe it i'm skeptical and put the address in the in the chat phil and uh let's see what what address in the in the uh the internal chat here only we can see that if you go down to your little menu and click on the chat thing it'll pop up down at the bottom you could always what are you asking for uh the question came from merlin72001 said phil claiming that he'll get them the evidence later is something that you could use for any type of case you could say checks in the mail sure well you know it goes in stages this is this has been incredibly difficult project because it requires for it bringing the world-class archaeologists in it requires getting archaeological permission it requires getting permission from the government from different ministries it requires that this that the weather cooperate after you spent huge amounts of money for an expedition and then the snows or something else or some political condition can even easily and of course the mountain has been closed and and and that's quite true uh i'm i'm not here to do the scientific part i'm here with my own testimony by the way rj i i say i i don't know that this is um noisar i do believe in my heart that it is i just can't provide the evidence that you know you would be wanting and others would be wanting and um that's why and i shouldn't be the one doing that they should be somebody completely independent of me and it is gotcha and this one comes in from thank you very much for your question and o xd says do ancient drawings of dinosaurs prove that they coexisted with humans don't answer no i don't think maybe on tangela believes that um but uh and and and uh and uh don patin which was quoted as an authority that this was a hoax uh he believes that and teaches that and famous for that um oh yeah that's that that's the official you still see articles popping up at ic r and a i g on that kind of stuff and there's a huge body phil sentner among others have diced and sliced those arguments to shreds over the past years well most of the creations organization also uh we reject that that is well they're ambivalent they at the top level they kind of avoid the subject but you see postings popping up quite a lot that still kind of wave them there the ica stones and things like that but that's a whole side issue oh tangelo do you have any words for this topic well in regards of humans with dinosaurs that's right i mean there are some caves with images which portray dinosaurs so um it might be an indication that actually people saw dinosaurs uh uh uh before the flood so it is so our citation needed well i have a topic on my library in regards to that i can send it to you rj you can look it up yeah well i got my address in there so you can well that's right you could if you yeah you put rj's uh address feel free to put that in the old live chat for everybody okay i'm okay with it i'm i'm i use my mug uh uh on all of my material i think i've got my mailing address in my books in that as well i i have the advantage of being an old retired fart and so uh i'm down with the with the doxing we appreciate rj why don't let you know we appreciate rj and jordan and otangelo and philip they're all linked in the description folks also that's right philip i've got to get your uh what was the name of your i can put it in right now what was the name of your uh webpage i i missed it while we were setting up eighth eighth brushing floor it should be the no that's oh i have a um a website um at christianleadersandscholars.com and you could get my see my book on that um to be honest i haven't done a lot of um i did hitch my work to this discovery so it's delayed it but it's also mean that i haven't there's been no organization promoting this so you haven't heard it and because it it destroyed no organizations paradigms that worked in this area you know it can can it's it's this this is not good it's a challenge to all of them so it would require a new and something new to accept this that's you got it so yeah with that the next question is is dave gar says how is the hike up mount error at is it easy or difficult uh yeah i'm the only one who can answer that um actually um i did mention anything about that but we were actually uh that journal that you were seeing in the video i was actually sending that out to some friends and it got into some the wrong hands and we found ourselves being a set of uh spies really bad-looking people were actually uh telling us and that delayed us getting on the mountain for a week or two till we were able to to convince them that we weren't going to show them where the site was and then after they after we switched down then a big storm come up and destroyed our mess tent and and we almost lost our climbers parachute had to had to get them out and they had to make a new mess if so we it's almost the time when i only have another day two days and we're gonna have to leave and i had the one day i got up and i'm set well i'm not gonna worry about getting ready to climb today because it's not gonna happen and parachute calls me says where are you i'm saying we're we're at the hotel and that was at 2,600 feet that was a nine o'clock in the morning now about four o'clock in the morning we've gone from an suv to a land rover to horses and so in about six hours i go from 2,600 feet to about 14,000 feet and i get altitude sickness when you see me pictured in front of that i was so sick i did not even walk comfortable about rainier and people die on that every year it's a treacherous climb yeah but i said parachute said who's going to go in first i said well let Sheila decide and she decided to go in first the archaeological official but when she by the time she had gotten in or while she was in there that sickness just miraculously disappeared so i'm when i said i'm good i'm really alert while i'm in there and uh you know i'm not using my tools i'm using my hands for measures and everything uh so then we come out but we've got to get down before nightfall but as soon as we get out that sickness returns and i expected to die on that mountain and the parachute took Sheila ahead and got her off of it and uh devout the other gentleman you see in one of those pictures he he allowed me to move just a few feet and we you know but if we stopped we would freeze to death if we kept going in the nightfall you know we would it's impossible it was too treacherous and then i heard him he kept encouraged me and then he said a horse and a horse and parachute was able to get a horse up there to get me off that mountain and while i'm on that horse i'm delirious i hardly remember the climb back but the only way to treat our altitude sickness is get somebody off the mountain but he saved my life parachute did i think we can all agree as well we love the political circumstance in that region to settle down to the point where archaeologists and scientists can positively crawl over the area freely to investigate all of these things and settle an awful lot of issues i think we can all give thumbs up to that gotcha and this one from tisha thomas says dura pinar site is the ark if any one of you wants to see the scientific in all caps proof of the global in all caps flood then get it from quote one two three four five proof of god i think he's being snarky now there's there's another site where they did like this this electrical imaging that might be the site he's talking about the pictures are super fancy like you can't throw a stick on that mountain without hitting the arc somewhere gotcha and thank you very much for your question endo xd says we're nephalums namely giants who are four four thousand five hundred feet tall on the arc were they swimming around for an entire year they are talked about before the flood and after the flood i think that number is kind of an exaggeration yeah i think the nephalum are like uh way giants but not like the bible is very vague on the subject and there's been an awful lot of fan fiction done by apologists over the years and i will leave that to somebody with a stiffer stomach than i have otangelo what are your thoughts people are dying to hear you speak otangelo well i i don't know about these nephalums this is too speculative for me i mean the bible mentions them but um since there is not much uh details in regards of those i am not very interested in that subject well we know that nephalum are free yuck yuck well i mean the nephalum there are people which speculate on these topics i don't so apparently nephalum and people were like boinking unauthorizedly according to genesis but that's about all that we get on them next up this one comes in from do appreciate your question creo debunk says please ask the old earther so do i understand right otangelo young earther philip you'd be old earth yes and please ask the old earther philip his name's on the screen creo okay so you say what is his blood and general paleontology model uh well the the flood is these prehistoric the archaeological evidence of these prehistoric graves um the um the zoological evidence is the this the megafauna extinctions and um by the way um rj the end of the ice age is an interesting thing i i challenge most archaeologists determined it was done before it was determined to be about 12 000 years ago that's the holocene before scientific radiocarbon dating and it's still uh 12 000 years oh that's because there was a lot of independent ways to date that that didn't involve the direct dating uh it was kind of interesting how they did date that if you know the history it was originally based on erosions of nigerfalls and lyle was very much involved in that and because egypt was covered in the ice age they determined that ice age had to end when egyptian civilization no there's no there's no pleiiscine glaciation in in that the uh all that's way in fact that was uh an entirely different area of the mesinian salinity crisis and a lot of other stuff that and there was no ice age in egypt in recent times oh but well we're we're talking about the it was covered with water and lyle attributed to the melding of the waters of the ice age he he was very much involved in the 1860s and what modern geology developed since then are never the twain shall meet there's there's there's still taking the date and the only thing that i can find of where they got the date for the end of ice age in the beginning of egyptian civilization was heraldus uh uh speaking to an egyptian priest and based on a mythical priesthood that he calculated about 12 000 years ago you know we've got way more archaeology on that including the desertification of the sahara uh paleo climate work on the pre-dynastic period and i and that's why i would like to see your book to find out how much of that pops up in your bibliography i'll give you the last question because the question is for you then we gotta go to the next question okay uh well uh it's interesting that they still they're still confirming the mythically derived date of about 12 000 years or maybe 14 000 depending on how you how you count the dating of heraldus so the the scientific dating is confirming the dating based on a myth which yeah this one from harry white for you rj says will rj debate kent hovind on young earth creation i have already but i will if anybody wants to set it up for a rematch that was our i i i he i called him a bottom feeder and he called me the ultra boy of atheism and we ended on such a charming note it was very sweet that was our first big debate here a modern day debate folks that was our first one where you had over 30 and you had thought that i didn't want to debate kent and i was telling you oh contraire i have been itching to debate kent for years yeah oh yeah i debated a minute he was great i don't know why you two got into it he loved me it was oh well you're you're i'm an old fart you're a cuddly i'm i'm about the same age as kentius and both of us look like we've been left out in the rain too long it was epic it was so next next up thank you very much for your question this one coming in from mark drisdale says please one question we have seen the effects of inbreeding in cheetahs how is the two times two even slightly realistic i think they're saying like bringing on i'm not sure what they mean by two by two was it unclean animals are two animals a clean animals are seven the major point is is the population genetics of any are animals aboard the are consistent with what we see uh people like jeffrey tomkins and ethaniel jensen tried to argue that there that it is consistent with the genetics but they haven't convinced any geneticist of that and i can kick that over to dan stern cardinale who is a geneticist who will guffaw in great detail to point out why none of that pulls water the term is genetic bottlenecking i believe yeah we'll give uh otandolo i think it was originally directed uh it was an argument toward you or a challenge toward you we'll give you the last word and we'll go to the next one otangelo what are your thoughts on this in addition to rj what was the topic what was the question otangelo they said we have seen the effects of inbreeding in cheetahs how is two bringing on a male and a female of each animal for a lot of the animals though different numbers for different animals how is that possibly going to work out with the inbreeding of just a single pair of let's say cheetahs that you bring on the ark and that get off the ark afterward no idea if not studied the topic gotcha and thank you very much he also asked how was it okay for noa to quote unquote know his grandchildren oh he had a drinking problem too otangelo i think this is for you i think he's thinking a lot when they say no they don't mean like meeting them they mean they mean it in the biblical sense right any thoughts otangelo a lot of incest after that flood that's that's we're bidding me it's not in the scripture gotcha next one thank you very much for your question this just flew in harry white says will rj debate kent hovind oh i got that so want to say thank you very much folks for your repeating ourselves we want to say thank you so much to our guests it's been a true pleasure we really do appreciate them we are going to let them go as we really do just appreciate them spending their time with us they're linked to the description folks highly encourage you to check them out and so i think this was a fun chat it was indeed so with that folks i will be back any moment with a post credit scene letting you know about sweet upcoming debates such as this one a big foot debate in wow this month it's already may so i'll be right back in just a moment folks thanks so much it keeps sifting all the reasonable from the unreasonable ladies and gentlemen that was an epic one we really do appreciate our guests they're linked in the description and boy oh boy lots of cool news you guys i am excited to share with you one we are so close to locking in our next big event which would be early june so a month from now in which i can't tell you but somebody big somebody epic in terms of their debating is coming back to modern day debate you don't want to miss that folks it's going to be epic and that's in early june so about a month away and we have many more juicy debates coming up not just this big foot debate we've talked about that folks that's fun it's cool but we are probably going to have a lot more political debates in may as we have not had a ton of political debates and we're excited about that so you don't want to miss that folks we also want to say hi i'm excited to say hello to you i just like getting to hang out with you guys that's also what this post credit scene is for and so i just want to say hello to you in the chat mary and gran bruhheim thanks for being with us as well as benny and and haxed good to see you again i like turtles good to see you again erin anderson thanks for coming by mark drisdale of course good to see you be bls a bud thanks for being with us sydney v good to see you again and cd thanks for coming by and brian griffin good to see you again mac hd 2021 good to see you again kill gore trout good to see you as well as rezzel wad of gore cute fuzzy weasel thanks for coming by and susie smith is this the first time we've seen you here we hope you're hope you feel welcome susie want to let you know folks if you did not already know this modern day debate is a neutral platform hosting debates on science religion and politics and we want you to feel welcome no matter what your view is whether you're a christian atheist muslim gay straight black white democrat republican you name it we hope you feel welcome we really do appreciate you hanging out with us it's a fun kind of melting pot here so welcome to the community we hope you enjoy your time it's always for me i just enjoy it you guys it's fun to be here every we i love these debates and so it is honestly a great time for me so anyway saying hello to more people in the chat solely is it pronounced solely deo gloria thanks for being with us as well as nicolas proclaimer of messiah thanks for coming by and rezzel wad of gore and defreek john shallenberger thanks for being here as well we're glad you're here fair and salas good to see you again it's funny oh i said all over there i said um said that uh otangela checked out an hour and a half ago let's see i'm catching up on the chat it's moving fast on me hold on folks i'm almost there good to see you james downard in the chat so forgive me for being so cranky tonight james downard rj i'm sorry i was cranky tonight i know i was also cranky with big screen bird we'll talk uh big screen bird said i well thanks for being so honestly for real big screen bird thank you for being so on you're kind about it so uh said i apologize i didn't catch the whole debate and ja just saw him mention his book more than once no disrespect meant thanks for understanding where i'm coming from big screen bird i i really should have broached the topic with you in a more gentle way and i'm really sorry about that myself so i hope you can forgive me for being so heavy-handed when it just wasn't wise it wasn't uh it wasn't mature so i'm sorry about that on my part thanks for being willing to listen to me and being willing to like reason with me and meet me halfway um uh yeah but yeah basically um so yeah big screen bird i'm glad we're on the same page now thanks for understanding and yeah folks it's something that uh well anyway long story short big screen bird welcome glad you're here and thanks for being patient with me uh you guys could probably tell i was a little bit cranky today i don't i think maybe i i don't i'm not sure why i don't know why but um because i feel like i got a decent amount of sleep last night that's usually the trick but anyway creo debunk good to see you and kevin brown glad you're here richard luongo thanks for coming by bill is it pronounced well or bro bill whale let me know bill this is embarrassing for me that i know that i probably asked you before i think i have but i'm i'm getting there i'm a work in progress but reservoir of course it didn't you want to prod otangelo into participating more great stuff again james one thing so yeah it's true otangelo was what would you guys what would you describe him as silent and seductive i don't know whatever you want to say so he was he didn't say a lot the reason was because right before he went live otangelo basically deferred more to philip and he said hey philip knows more about this than me and he said i'm i'm kind of like here in addition but i'm not as much you know he so he basically i should have let you guys know that um because a lot of people were wondering like why isn't otangelo saying much but uh otangelo has some knowledge of the topic or you could say he's got some engagement on the topic previously but he um like i said philip is someone who's looked into it much more so thanks dave gar for being here said great debate everyone won gg we're glad you enjoyed it and it certainly was fun and hannah anderson good to see you said big big event it is for sure going to be big and ofere seriously uh we want to ask you if you would please refrain from insulting the guests and the reason i say that is i'm trying to level with you because i'm like bro please i don't want to like block you but and i know you're gonna be like you're gonna try to be you're gonna try to be alpha so you're i know that that's the thing for you you know you're gonna be like well you know just block me man i don't care just block me i'm just gonna be me i'm not trying to just teasing you don't get mad well pure i love you um but but the the thing is we do want to ask that everybody would be kind to our guests and oh fear so i am oh fear i'm i'm i'm serious though that i don't want to block you so i'm gonna give you the old time out just because calling matt dilla honey matt dilla uh whatever you call him is something that is like we want it's not sustainable for our channel to have people trash the guests because one thing i gotta tell you guys 99% i thank you 99% of you i'm so thankful because you're reasonable and and pleasant and kind and fun in so like don't get me wrong when i call out some of the stuff in the chat that i don't like don't get me wrong i like so many people like like i said 99% are great but it is it's true like man i've looked at some of the comments today of like past videos i was skimming through and there are so many people that are like they just love what one is like they'll oftentimes be like oh you should never have this person back they're terrible or or they'll maybe just without even saying that they'll just say this person's so stupid can't believe they would be on here and it's like i i think that maybe they're trying to like make it so that the person doesn't come back or something and i'm like yeah why would okay if you're gonna try to thwart the purpose of this channel which is to have people from all sorts of different perspectives if someone's in the chat trying to insult the speaker to try to like say like oh yeah they should never come back on the show then it's like pretty obvious you're working against us right like in terms of you're working against modern a debate and so it's kind of like why so that's why it is why we do that rule but guy torii good to see you i i can tell you it's not arin so i don't want to trick anybody into thinking that it will be arin it's not arin arin does respond to my emails he's not always happy when he does i love arin and we're gonna try to get him back and i'm very serious about that um i really do i really do like arin a lot for real i think i told you guys that i met him before and when you get to know arin because they know some people um they've had run-ins with arin um steve mccray but i just really enjoyed as just as a person as a human being spending time with arin i was like he's a very authentic and he just reminds a strange way reminded me of family i don't know i just i he puts you at ease i i in that's surprising because when you first see arin he looks like a big biker he's i think he's maybe taller than me and and i'm not that tall but i'm about six one and so arin's a large man and he looks you know like i don't maybe like a biker but he like i said his demeanor is he's a really pleasant person to be around and so anyway oliver catwell says hi james hi oliver good to see you i hope your travels are going well i'm excited for you man that's exciting stuff and susie smith says bring back matt delahoney that might happen you never know susie and i'm very serious louis pressiato says hi james are using the new camera looks a lot sharper i agree it looks a lot sharper i'm not yet using a new camera i'm using my old camera however i made two changes one less a little bit less light because i can tilt the light two um i got a new screen in the background because cam from capturing christianity sent me a message and he's like bro you're so washed out you remember when my forehead would be like it looks like it was a light bulb inside of my forehead shining through and you're like ah that's one thing that this gray instead of black sheet in the in the background makes a big difference so i am really glad about that it's hard to see the blue light i'm trying to make that more apparent you can barely see but anyway and hax good to see you says hi and thanks james thanks for your kind words appreciate your support and maryon grand burheim says bruheim says greetings from the kingdom of norway oh that's awesome i'm so glad thanks for staying up a little late with us it's pretty late and then yeah we really do appreciate you i like turtles says thanks james love you all to have a good evening thank you for that i appreciate that and then fish frog dolphin says hello good to see you and shrommer jr good to see you again says can't wait for bigfoot get pumped i am i definitely appreciate that and i couldn't agree more thanks for your super chat from jc93013 says please say beta male imitating jesse lee's voice lol that's funny he's a beta yeah i really do it's um we have had jesse on before if you guys haven't seen it so but yeah do want to remind you i know that it's like um yeah so that's the thing so some reason some of you felt even more what's the word i'm looking for you felt even a small percent like one percent of the chat felt more compelled to insult the gas which again it's like um we've warned you like don't we don't want you we want you to attack the arguments not the person right and is that i'm amazed that some people are like what you that's you're gonna be like be this like dictator type person and say that you're gonna make that a rule and it's like yes i'm so bad because i'm asking you to attack arguments instead of people like i'm amazed at that but thanks for being with us as well god's leg says i never really comment on here but i love this channel thank you for your kind words we appreciate that support and brook chava says we can still make it to 200 likes folks please do hit that like if you enjoyed this debate or hey maybe you were like i didn't enjoy it well hit the down vote that way you can express yourself you know like get it off your chest welcome to the show get it off your chest and hannah anderson thanks so much for your support says also if you haven't already please subscribe and hit that notification bell for notifications of future debates more fun for everyone and it is so true we have many more debates coming up you guys i am excited we're gonna have a ton in may and we're gonna have a ton of in june and we're looking to have new topics new juicy stuff and so let's see cd thanks for your kind words that thank you moderated bait good to see you have the kinks ironed out of the cam i know that's more than half of getting a new camera cameras can fall in your lap but it's all about the output that's so true and that's something i've got to work on even with this camera because this sheet behind me is actually gray but to you it probably if you have the same like view that i have it looks pink or orange but thanks for your huge and generous super chat scottie really do appreciate that that means a lot if you meant to attach something to it you can always tag me in the chat and let me know what you had meant to attach to it but i really do appreciate it whether it be to share a comment or just for the purpose of supporting the channel thanks so much seriously and let's see top i too good to see you so just remember yesterday's debate and how good today's was hit the like yeah that's right yesterday was was interesting so tonight was a little more calm let's see i feel a little i feel bad rj if you're out there i'm so sorry to have yeah i was like kind of abrasive tonight thanks for your patience with me rj solely day gloria says light it up james thank you appreciate it and thanks big screen bird for being so cool about it seriously man we're cool i appreciate you man or woman who whoever you are if you don't like being called man susie smith says james how about the topic of incest via Noah's ark and adam and eve we should ask standing for truth because he loves all the genetic stuff or at least some parts of genetic stuff in the context of like creation evolution debates so that we should definitely i'll ask him for real i will actually let's let me write that down because it's interesting so thanks for that idea susie seriously and it's certainly a new idea let me put this in the old thing for a good old standing for truth we'll say hey bro you want to do this twitch chat so sorry i'm so slow to say hello to botzel good to see you poor lucy glad you're here brook sparrow thanks for coming by brook sparrow says when's the next patreon meeting it's in um sometime this month in may i'm sorry sorry that's so unhelpful um i i don't know yet right now it's so crazy busy i'm like really behind with my semester is wrapping up i've got i don't really have too much paper type of research or work to do but i'm i've got to write the exam for my own students and then i've got a i've got a couple short papers but long story short this next week is going to be really busy so i promise i'll let you know once i find out and kill gore trout says you need more Hawaiian barbecue in your diet james that could be true and mac hd says not enough coffee and let's see this chat's still moving fast on me oliver catwell says i think it was cool to have an old earth or a young earth or on the same team that was interesting poor or poor tangelo but um but yes and oasis says do i believe bigfoot exists i'm pretty open minded i'm actually very open no i mean here think consider it this way folks like in other words i'm like i don't know i'm honestly like pretty firmly on the fence so i wouldn't say no i don't know if i'd say i don't think i'd quite say yes here's one argument that destiny made by the way um this is in his debate with kent hovinda i don't know how it came up but destiny mentioned something interesting which is that as cell phones and cameras in particular became more common and more cheap you know more people can now you get a camera and even one of those old brick phones has a camera in it um destiny made the point that it's like well pictures like especially credible pictures of big foot they're even less of them as phones have come out with cameras and things like that i mean assuming that's true which i'm like yes i would concede it's probably true like the most famous pictures from a long time ago that's the one with uh i can't remember the name but long story short i'm like yeah it is kind of weird i mean maybe it died since then if there was if there were any around um since recently the reason that i'm i'm sympathetic is it's pretty interesting that you guys heard jack dr jeffrey meldrum made the case that well maybe this is like a large type of ape that's just which makes it a lot less like magical right you know it seems it's a lot it's a lot more like oh if it's like some sort of like weird distant relative of like gorillas and orangutans um then and because he mentioned as rj mentioned the debate like gigantipithecus which like seems to match the the typical description that bigfoot alleged bigfoot observers or you know claim that they saw so i'm like i don't i don't know like that that's i think the best way to try to make the case if you're going to make the case and i always thought that is like you don't have to say that it's magical or like supernatural or you know like um and you know like you can even like just like anyway i'm tired jc says uh please say yeah we are the beta but yeah let's see brian griffin says doctor i've got very bad news you've got cancer in Alzheimer's patient well at least i don't have cancer that's it's a dark you have a dark sense of humor my friend but we're glad you're here so um ophir says i now unmuted you and says i put you on mute here so whatever you said to me i was wasted on deaf ears literally if you recall i was actually nice to mat that night oh ophir you're feisty i like that sexy oliver catwell says tis you that is sharp thank you oliver for your kind words and i always thought six ones not that tall right like because i'm technically even six foot and a half inch but i round up standard rounding rules say i can round up so it's not like i'm six foot and a quarter inch rounding up to six one i'm six foot and a half rounding up to six foot one standard rounding rules people serious okay so anyway um let's see uh spicy roads good to see you and nero good to see you are there two Nero's in chat tonight one Nero made me laugh because one of the Nero's posted i can't stop thinking about tangelo which i just i temporarily pinned it it was uh it just made me laugh i loved how angelo is becoming a meme during this debate too it was just funny that people were saying i couldn't help but say it myself that otangelo is debate just like male modeling is Derek zooander i can't remember the order of it but sigman he says now james just got to get it that color balance sorted yeah you're right the color balance is off and hannah anderson was right yeah the the light was bouncing off my head so much that it was like it was like frightening let's see truth shoes 101 good to see you yeah you remember we used to have that cool light that would light up i it's hard to get it to work with standard obs i've got to use stream labs you remember when it would like if if a news if someone new subscribed to the channel it would like light up green in my room like the room that i was streaming from which is really cool like it's pretty hip right and so ophir says i was actually nice oh yeah yeah i believe you don't worry about it dan britison thanks for being with us rg1 thanks for being with us that are you the one controlling modern day or someone else doing it in the background i'm controlling it yeah i'm doing everything at once so i'm doing the like oh i'm doing obs i'm doing zoom um like and then interacting with the chat um so that is me during the debates like when i'm saying like hey so-and-so we're glad you're here like that's actually like i'm i'm doing that and my attention is bouncing back and forth between the debate and the chat which i agree maybe not a good thing because um but it also kind of helps like i don't want to be strongly involved moderating and the reason is because you're like oh yeah james like because some people are some people hate our style here it's on purpose like it's not an accident some people hate our style that i as a moderator am not very involved i'll get involved if it if it kind of if i'm irritable like or if it if it's like man this person's currently cutting this person off like it there's it's not just like one or two times it's like it seems to be a pattern now i'll jump in um but all right we purposely like i like not moderating for the purpose of uh i like doing it just only sparingly because we want it to be spontaneous we don't want it to be like oh i gotta control everybody and like oh like that is just boring so jc says james are you a gym bro i do lift all the time no joke i do it because it's just great to get stress out i really do enjoy it for real so like for me not going to the gym can be kind of tough i am taking this week off though yeah the whole week so um it's but my joints are pain you know because i've i've gone every single day for probably like three months almost other than a snow day but resa what of course says can you get babbo from finding bigfoot on the show i'm i'd be willing to try i don't know who who he is but i'd be open to it and hello wick liovin is it wick liovin or is it wick lovin we're glad you're here and dafrique says bigfoot exist alien simple answer jesus christ can do anything he wants thank you for your feedback and norman bait says james is in the matrix brian griffin says beta male yeah it's uh norm bates says i am alpha male thank you for that and uh i was i agree mac hd 2021 says that light was cool you should get it to get working again james i agree and i actually i'm kind of like yeah how could i get that to work um i stream at my office if i streamed at home i probably could so i might have to start streaming at home because i i did love it well the only problem is to use that light you've got to use stream labs and if you use stream labs sometimes stream labs would just all of a sudden shut down on me on random and other streamers have told me it happened so so we couldn't risk that i mean imagine it's like if we have like somebody like you know so especially if it's like a paid debate so like and then one of the debaters you know they're here and they're like um you know they're like oh my gosh and i'm like oh sorry guys the stream dropped that so anyway maybe i'll i'll see if they've fixed it yet but that sucks because the it sucks so bad because stream labs is i think better than obs it's got some cool bell and whistle type things that make it better but they constantly just shut down for some reason rj1 says man that's hard it's amazing thank you for your encouragement rj1 thanks for positivity that means a lot rezo out of course is bait of what and soy squash that's so true and and hax says you do a great job james thanks for your kind words that seriously means a lot i i do appreciate it and then mr man dude c says is this a tangelo from the aca yes the one and only normabay says james it's the godfather of modern debate thanks for your kind words ophir says i like the style keep doing it how you like james thanks for understanding well here the funny thing too is thanks for being like that ophir i'd really do appreciate it because you have no idea how many emails direct messages um sometimes even facebook messages uh comments even someone posted on my personal facebook wall one time telling me how to do the channel like to like you you screwed up this you should have done it this way no joke like it was that rude it was that like it was like you're a stranger i don't even know you i've never met you i just like that was when i used to accept everybody as a friend on facebook because before things like that started happening um i used to accept everybody but now i'm like a little bit i don't i'm not as quite as like on facebook accepting people as new friends that i haven't met because that person it was like you're a stranger i don't i never met you in my life and here you are chewing me out on my personal facebook wall like saying that i sucked at this and i should have done modern day debate this way instead and i'm like are you like i'm like is this like are you a parody of your of yourself like how is this real like it's just hard to believe that it was like real so nero says jim is life lol you're right about that and Pedro hm good to see you says beta monkey like monkey like without a why though i don't understand did you mean to say monk but patrick vaughn thanks for being here says hi james appreciate you saying hello and yeah you could get endorphins from your exercise it's true it's awesome glad you made it lock beard thanks for coming by hey someone from oshkosh wisconsin my hometown was in the chat tonight and they're like hey i'm in oshkosh and i was like how's my hometown and they i didn't see him though i missed anything they said though so but hopefully oshkosh as well is it nobody hears from oshkosh i'm sure but the machines of love and chaos thanks for being here said do a shroud of turn and debate um what changelo is that you posing as the machines of love and chaos account but i'm just kidding i'm teasing you we maybe we probably will do that topic i i would think it would be fun um it's a new one but i think it'd be fun so rezawa of course says it's your thing you do what you want to do um thank you for your see here's the thing the kuchi barber says oh gosh that doesn't sound good um says james you can you can accept me as a friend on facebook um maybe like it really is like ever since that person i'm just kind of like yeah i don't know if i like this um i don't know if i like it when people um post on my wall that's weird so yeah long story short um i'm not saying you would but i've been really hesitant ever since that so but yeah it's amazing i mean i guess it's good that i have like sometimes it's tiring to get so many messages and facebook posts and dms and comments of people saying you should do modern day debate this way because they care apparently right like i i always think at least they care and so when i have haters and believe like for real folks there are like hundreds of haters there are a lot of people that hate this channel i think of it in pot you could say positive lighting i think of it as at least they care at least we're having an impact most of the people that come into contact with this channel i think like it and that's encouraging like that makes me feel good that makes me feel happy that people are getting some sort of use out of it and i'm like hey that's great we hope it's fun we hope people enjoy it and so um but yeah jeff cordell says three more likes we're at 199 likes folks let's hit that 200 mark thank you for your support folks we are so close i can feel it we just hit 200 likes thank you so much for your support everybody fish drop dolphin says beta male and brook chavis i trust you i know you i know you will really well um thanks jc for your kind words says i listen to debates daily i'm about to run out that's funny well jc are you listening to a podcast see here on screen this right side of the screen here check us out on your favorite podcast app folks if you haven't pull out your favorite podcast app right now i don't care which podcast it app it is we're on there believe me and you're gonna be like oh i don't know james i've got some you know i've got a i've got a podcast app that i use that nobody's really heard of it so i don't think you're already on there james i use pocketcasts or dog catcher or i'm trying to think of the other ones that are i'm like when i first heard about it i was like what the um overcast or cast box we're on there i'm dead serious i worked really hard like i put in a a ton of time getting our debates on podcast apps so not just these podcast apps but if you have stitcher apple spotify podcast addict google podcast whatever you have is a podcast app for real pull it up and type in modern day debate look for us right now and you'll find us and i'm really excited about that because um one i've put in a lot of hours for real maybe like five to ten hours looking for every possible podcast that we could make sure that we're on that app so our distributor is like fully decked out we are on like pretty much everything there is i heart radio pandora audible um amazon music we're on virtually everything you can listen to us on um amazon echo that's it's like we've done a lot of work to get on there and so bookworm says why are only some of the debates on spotify so we are behind in the sense that we started putting the debates on in june oh i'm not sure what you mean we so the debates when they happen on youtube we don't put them on to spot or uh we don't put them on a podcast immediately we're working on getting caught up but we we what we usually do is we put them on podcast um sometimes it's like a week late sometimes it's even two weeks late if we have a lot of debates and so they will eventually end up on there though so do want to let you know that is true and uh let's see well fear says if you don't press like i call the police thank you for that support and uh mac hd says thanks for reading off the comments james it definitely shows you're true to the show and love your followers thanks for your kind words max seriously that means a lot bookworm let's see good glad you're here bookworm and yeah so we are a little bit behind my a week or two on the debates that we've uploaded and then we started putting the debates on in last summer june or july so every usually every thursday we do a throwback thursday debate where we find one of the debates that we did before we created our podcast and we release it as a throwback thursday type of podcast release and so some of those are like old matt dilla hunty debates kenthoven uh mylo yanopolis you you name it um but yes so and also if you want to support the channel if you want to give us a rating on your favorite podcast app that helps a lot we do appreciate that and so lockbeard says they don't want people they disagree with to get to speak at all and you let both sides speak ignore the haters lockbeard i think you are so right there are a lot of people who like they're like you platform so-and-so here's something funny um but yeah i've seen a lot of people where they'll say like you're platforming so-and-so i'm through with you and i'm like okay oh i don't care so the idea though is i also one of the reasons i don't care is it's humorous that i saw one time i saw the same account where on one debate they're like that's it i'm unsubscribing and i'm not watching anymore and then i saw on a different debate because i can look up the person's comments i can see all the comments they left on modern day debate then they said that same thing on another debate like a separate debate i think it was like months later and it's like wait a minute like are you just saying that to try to like like try to like get leverage like try to like manipulate me into like it's like i'm gonna leave if unless you do it my way like i'm i'm i'm unsubscribing right now and it's like you already said you were unsubscribed like so i think a lot of people are even just saying it well and this is a small percent remember um this is like out of all the people watch modern day modern day debate it's a tiny people a tiny percent as most people are enjoying themselves and it's just fun and they're happy and um yeah is that when i saw that though i was like you are so full of crap but jeff cordell says i found you through google podcast helps make work or the gym more bearable oh i'm so glad to hear that like seriously i'm glad that it's useful and lockbeerts has set up your facebook wall so only you can post on it well that's fun i mean i do like some posts that was the only post i've probably ever gotten in my life that i was like seriously like grossed out by um reservoir of horses rojo rogan versus matt dill honey would blow the channel up that would be epic it really would but i don't know if it's gonna happen um yeah that's true sydney v said rogan won't debate he would be forced to take a position yeah i don't i don't think rogan would be willing to debate um and frankly um yeah i don't know if it's his bag but on the spiritual significance of dmt trips that's funny and defreex says if you ever need a christian theist jesus troll let me know i don't know what you mean i can't tell what what you are but i'm at modern day debate at gmail.com um sometimes people ask if they can come on to debate and sometimes we were able to get them on it depends on a lot of different factors like what format what topic and everything else but ophir says i think some people get wound up later and calm down and come back that's true maybe that's it ophir is that sometimes people are like coming back that could be because i know that i mean debaters have even done that where they're like i'll never come back to modern day debate and then months later is like oh hey i'm like sure we'll have you back on like defreex says uh or what was it louis louis is it louis waraz thanks for coming by louis um is it pronounced was let me know i think it is but i'm honestly not very sometimes i don't like read very well says can we have a debate on personal experiences with an atheist and a christian that's an interesting idea yeah that'd be fun i'm open to it um i don't know who would be like big time people would want to do it um bookworm says are you using the debates you host for your phd thesis if not what are you studying for oh that's funny i wish i could but no i don't it's uh it's not at all for research it's just for fun to blow off steam from the phd schedule um basically my research is like in work psychology so like what motivates workers and all that stuff and so yeah like how to prevent burnout in workers it's like hr not like hr but it's in psychology so it's called industrial organizational psychology and and haxt says if i don't like the debaters i just skip that show that makes sense to me i mean like that's one thing is i sometimes i see people are like i want i want it to be the case that i like every single debate and i'm like this channel is kind of like a buffet you're not gonna like every topic you're not gonna like every single like person and that's how i i think most youtube channels are now some of them maybe there's a higher percentage hit you could say um but i know that when i watch youtube channels i don't watch every single episode or video they put out like very rarely uh most of the channels i watch like maybe i don't know once a week or once a month or something like very few channels i must it's rare that i watch like almost every show that comes out so that's why i'm to me i'm like i try to tell people like if you don't like a debate like yeah i may be another one i don't blame you can't like everything sydney v says i would offer to debate but since i broke my neck i only have my phone i'm really sorry to hear that um that sounds really bad so said no i have no money laying around for fancy electronics this is it for me i am so sorry sydney v to hear about your broken your injury like um that just sounds really hard so we hope you feel welcome and just we hope you feel appreciated and like it's a community and that it's supportive here um so we're glad you're here and i hope you get better soon as well stuck in Florida said well let's see talking to somebody else be it best top good to see you glad you made it yeah i i love the format i love what we're doing here at the channel and i'm super encouraged that it's been growing and people have been so so supportive so i honestly cannot thank you guys enough for all of your support so thank you so much and uh bookworm said did did arin stop coming on after the nathan incident that's right arin um and i would so that's the thing i would concede that not every debate is perfectly moderated far from it i would concede that uh the arin raw debate i didn't do a great job on so arin raw was unhappy with that debate and he was like uh like i'm not coming back now whether or not that's forever or if he just temporarily is like nope uh we'll see i would be happy to have arin on i have no hard feelings and frankly i'm going to ask arin again so so i i don't know i i have a feeling at some point it'll happen but yeah so that's the i'm only note the bare truth i'm giving it to you straight so as of right now i i don't think you'll see arin on in the next month but i honestly i'm going to ask arin to come on this summer so you may see arin come on in the summer depending on if he says yes he may not but random nobody says yeah but you have a life james thanks for your kind words telling me that i have a life but seriously thank you guys for your support thank you for everything i am excited about the future you guys honestly have no idea how much it means um i just love you guys and so it's honestly been really fun um but yeah um sunday worship said i think definitely dill hunting will be back i am quite confident he will it's not confirmed yet but where i'm talking to matt so best top says moderator would you be willing to have a debate with me about blank vid 19 maybe uh it depends um i'm at modern day beta gmail.com if you want to talk more and we are very excited about the future though thank you for all your support folks this channel honestly we're going to do some epic stuff this summer for real this summer really is it's going to be unbelievable so i am just excited thank you guys for all of your support and don't forget to hit that subscribe button for upcoming debates that you can enjoy as i think you will enjoy them it's going to be fun and so thanks everybody set or is it same c montreal thanks for coming by we hope you're well and uh yeah so i'm excited though let me say goodbye to the twitch chat as well so sorry twitch chat i get behind but brooks ferro and topazel good to see you and this is always was it topazel is always around round up on height you're right that's funny but yeah thank you guys thanks so much for your support in the old twitch chat as well and folks if you haven't seen our twitch chat i am going to link that in the what is it called um oh i'm tired in the youtube chat i'm linking our twitch channel if you haven't seen it yet oh you know what we should do we should raid how do we do how how to raid in twitch oh i forgot how to do this okay so i think it's like i can't remember the call that you're supposed to use you're you're supposed to type okay you put slash raid and then you put the name of the person you want to raid okay i'll do that so you we're going to raid somebody in the twitch chat right now and reservoir of course as a wrestling fan do you see rn versus andrey the giant and matt delenty as kevin sullivan the task master i can't remember the task master i think i remember was that like the wwe arrow where they would have all the wrestlers would have like names of occupations like the barber or the dentist um i i'm trying to remember who task master is i can't remember but spicy road says uh let's see james debates are so important let's teach the teach the world how to argue with facts rather than emotion thanks for that encouragement spicy roads that seriously does mean a lot and i'm encouraged by that so and brook chavis thanks for your positivity we do appreciate all the positivity you guys it is honestly it's encouraging and so thanks for all your support thank you say montreal so thank you brother hope you're good as well thank you for that and thank you guys thanks stuck in florida for your kind words and thanks uh but yeah actual socialist trash good to see you there it is slash raid okay so let me we're gonna do this in the twitch chat if you want to like take a ride as we are going to raid somebody right now um let's see who's awake right now or who's streaming right now oh yeah okay so let's raid prime case he's he was a really kind fellow when he was on that stream and c d rank a thanks so much for being here i see you there in the old twitch chat and and then now i'm gonna put in prime case okay i'm about to raid let's see prime case with no spaces okay let's see if this works i've tried to do this before sometimes it i i bosh it um it says this channel has subscriber only chat oh i didn't know that i don't think we can raid them if that's the case can we i don't know i think that means we can't so let me find someone else to raid who's this hasa nabi fellow let's see we'll try that hasa nabi no no no raid slash hasa nabi raid slash hasa nabi and do i put a space i can't remember let me try this i'm going to oh um it's slide oh i have to put a space thanks for letting me know that c d rank a i'm gonna put a space and that way we can we can rob or raid hasa nabi let's see if this works man i don't i don't know how to do this i think i've wrecked it oliver catwell says what's raiding what raiding is is basically um we can like it like sends us to like somebody else's like stream as they're going it brings everybody from the modern day debate chat in twitch to the chat of that other youtube or a twitch streamer so like it'll be like so and so is raiding you and it'll show all of our people pop in there so i think oh did i just i think i i successfully did i successfully raid oh i just yes we did successfully raid prime case which is cool um that's awesome i'm gonna i'm gonna communicate with prime case i'm gonna say high prime case i hope you're well that's cool i'm excited and i don't know how does uh let's see oh this works slash am i still streaming on r on modern day debate the stream and it does it is it show me or is it oh okay i didn't know it does this what it does is it hope it shows prime case on modern day debate i didn't know that that's interesting oh that's really nice let's see once that's so kind they gifted me a sub to prime case oh that's what gifting subs means i didn't know that that is cool that's kind thank you it's a metaphor how do i say thank you i must go back okay i'm gonna say thank you check out this boomer on twitch me right now let's see i forgot the name of the person darn it what was the name it's a metaphor that's what it was okay now i lost it darn it um i don't know how to do this how do i go back i want to say thank you okay well i'm i'm intrigued that's how twitch works huh that's cool i like that but yeah so you guys are getting to see me try to figure out twitch david druid thanks for coming by modern day debate where we hope you're doing well and uh sydney v explained to me who jane who uh hasa nabi is thank you for that and res out of course as james going to read himself later in the shower okay gosh what does that even mean cd says props given back if you aren't listening thank you cd oh you're saying that um prime case gave props that's cool because i don't have the audio on so i can't hear um philip evan says i like the thumbnail of jimmy holding on to his toupee that's so true that's it it is actually looks what it looks like is that it looks like i'm holding on to pay in the thumbnail that's funny like because i'm like this oh it's good i like that um brian stevens these are kind of words that thanks or uh said nice haircut thank you i think i just cut it last last week i think sorry i know i do multiple good goodbyes you guys but i just love hanging out here and so actual truth says love you james jk this channel gets me through my days as a wage slave i've probably gone through all the debates on this channel in the last year whoa that's so cool i'm so glad that has been useful for you that makes me feel happy so that's encouraging that's so cool yes we successfully rated prime case which was epic and cd says props that's cool i'm so glad it worked boomer over here boomer james you can call me that guys that's my new nickname and cd said prop oh hold on sunday worship says we love going on these learning adventures with you james thank you for that thank you for your kind words air church on congratulating the first raid tapatu says you were learning so much you're right i am thank you to you thank you for your help the freak says props okay thank you that's encouraging and no prime case noticed and hopefully was encouraged brook chavis thank you for saying good job i learned how to raid somebody and hacks says have fun take care of everyone thank you and ask you to and air church says you're an inspiration thanks for everything you do thanks air church that seriously means more than you know that's really encouraging thank you brook chavis says prime case gifted you a sub moderated bait thank you that's encouraging i'm encouraged by that and um that's cool i like it i'm um yeah that's cool learning all this stuff is really cool topot two oh already thanked them thank you for doing that on my behalf topot i um sydney let's see that's so funny res what of course is the hand behind the head in the pose looks like you just got busted doing something juicy what a sicko but anyway two shoes little ones thanks jay's for the nightcap congrats on the raid good night peeps have a great tomorrow thank you for your kind words two shoes love you guys thanks for your support seriously we hope you feel welcome here it's a community and it's a melting pot of different people and we are absolutely determined to carry out the vision of providing a neutral platform a level playing field that hosts nothing but debates that's what this channel hosts nothing about debates there's no streams or eye or anybody else gets on and makes a stance and don't get me wrong that's cool if other channels do it but for us we want to be 100% neutral hosting debates on science religion and politics so everybody has their chance to make their case on a level playing field and so we are excited for that thanks for your support of that and we are excited about the future folks and we encourage you to join us in fulfilling that vision and we appreciate you for all of your help in doing that thanks guys we hope you have a great rest of your night keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable love you guys